Criticism of members of the judiciary and the supposed “undemocratic” nature of our constitutional system with its supreme Constitution, enforced by an independent and impartial judiciary, is intensifying.
This is not surprising.
In a one-party dominant democracy in which access to state power also potentially provides undeserved access to immense financial wealth, acquired legally or illegally through the tender process or through high-end government jobs (with its accompanying perks), independent institutions (especially powerful independent institutions staffed by people of integrity) can easily be seen as a mortal threat to the acquisitive ambitions of the looting classes.
In order to maintain their political dominance and in order not to lose all legitimacy in the eyes of ordinary citizens, the looting classes need to draw a veil over their venal actions, by uttering platitudes about their abiding concern for the poor (on whose behalf they so enthusiastically sip champagne) and by expressing concerns about the slow pace of transformation and the “undemocratic” nature of those independent institutions that stand between them and the enjoyment of immense wealth and, perhaps as an afterthought, political power.
After all, no one wishes to spend 15 years in jail (or, in a best case scenario, a few years in a prison hospital), so it is imperative that the “right” person heads the National Prosecuting Authority and the “right” person heads the office of the Public Protector in order to immunise the looters from criminal prosecution for corruption. And of course, it can turn into a terrible bother when cheeky judges declare invalid an Act of Parliament or an appointment of the President, especially when these judgements threaten to destroy the carefully crafted legal mechanisms and structures put in place to protect the political leadership and those who are close enough to the leadership to benefit financially from an emerging kleptocratic state.
It is therefore tempting to dismiss all the talk of a review of the powers of the courts and the expressed yearning for a return to a system of parliamentary sovereignty in which Parliament would be able to make any law – no matter how drastic it infringes on the rights of ordinary voters and no matter how much unbridled power it grants to any of the politicians who “serve” in the Executive – as nothing more than the self-serving attempt at grabbing and consolidating unchecked power.
But this would be wrong. Given South Africa’s apartheid history in which the vast majority of citizens were disenfranchised and given the general distrust in legal processes and in members of the judiciary amongst many voters, arguments about the essential undemocratic nature of judicial review may well have some traction amongst ordinary voters who may not realise that the judiciary – for better or for worse – can (at the moment, at least) probably be trusted far more than can the politicians for whom we vote out of a sense of nostalgia for a better time (that might never have been) and out of a fear of a return to white domination and oppression.
So when the Young Communist League issues a statement demanding that judges become accountable to “the people”, one may take it slightly more seriously than one would normally have done. The statement makes for fun reading, so I quote a sizable part of it here:
We have recently called for the transformation of the judiciary as part of our National Lekgotla resolutions and have stated strongly that our judges are not perfect and that since they are human; they are bound to err, to be biased and influenced by various social and political ambiances… [W]e have found it to be our revolutionary duty to highlight that the members of the judiciary must in exercising their duty understand and respect the political authority of the legislature and the executive; as the powers vested in them are mandated and legitimised by members of society through a democratic process enshrined in our constitution.
We have called for a judiciary system that is accountable to the people and that we will campaign for amendments in the Constitution for the judiciary to be subjected to popular and democratic elections. If the judiciary, like the other branches of government serves the public, then the public must determine who should serve in such offices at all levels of the judiciary.
There are judgements that necessitate that the judiciary be transformed as they leave much to taste relating to transformation of our state and society; it cannot be normal that the courts serve as stumbling blocks of transformation and hide under the protection of the media. The judiciary is not immune from public scrutiny and its independence should never be elevated above the other branches
of government which are democratically elected by the people and are accountable to the people.
Unfortunately the young comrades did not provide any examples of specific judgments of, say, the Constitutional Court, which might have left “much to taste” and which might have acted as a stumbling block to transformation (however defined). Perhaps it has in mind the Mazibuko judgment (which I had previously criticised) where the Constitutional Court endorsed the “pay-as-you-go” water policies of the City of Johannesburg – despite the fact that section 27(1)(b) of the Constitution guarantees for everyone the right of access to water.
But that policy was implemented, as I said, by the democratically elected City Council of Johannesburg (run by the ANC, who is in alliance with the Communist Party) in line with the water policies of the democratically elected national government (a government in which Communist Party serves and whose perks – including long stays in the Mount Nelson and revolutionary free travel to Cuba – its leader seems to enjoy rather a lot). It is therefore unclear how the election of judges would make such judgments more “transformed”. The case nicely illustrates that the problem is not the judges at all, but rather the neo-liberal policies of the very government in which the Communists continue to serve and continue to benefit from.
The problem is that the voters have actually elected this government who has implemented these anti-transformation policies. One can never trust the bloody voters to do the right thing, ne? What is needed, so it seems, is to take a leaf out of the book of Berthold Brecht, and demand that the electorate be replaced. In his poem, The Solution, Brecht mocked an unnamed Communist regime’s pretensions to being democratic in the following manner: “After the uprising of the 17th June/ The Secretary of the Writers Union/ Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee/ Stating that the people/ Had forfeited the confidence of the government/ And could win it back only/ By redoubled efforts./ Would it not be easier/ In that case for the government/ To dissolve the people/ And elect another?”
Perhaps the young comrades also did not realise that in a constitutional state (in which the judiciary is required to interpret and enforce the Constitution and thus to check the power of the other branches of government to ensure that those branches do not abuse their power or infringe on the rights of citizens), elected judges would be superfluous. Why have another elected branch of government if that branch is going to do no more than confirm the policies (like the neo-liberal policies around the pay-as-you-go supply of water) devised by the other elected branches of the state.
But, to be fair, at first glance I did not realise how brilliant this plan might turn out to be. As the young comrades pointed out, the problem with judges is that “they are bound to err, to be biased and influenced by various social and political ambiances”.
Goodness, I for one would not want to have any case about the constitutionality of an act by the President heard by judges influenced by various social and political “ambiances”. That is why the election of judges might turn out to be a brilliant idea. After all, at present the other branches of government are staffed by elected officials and we all know that they never err, that they are never biased and that they would never think of being influenced by social or political “ambiences”. No one who has ever attended a debate in the National Assembly would be able to deny that these elected representatives are always impeccable objective and diligent and that their decisions are always correct and never influenced by the wrong kind of “ambiences”.
Who would not want to take their chances in court with an elected judge – as long as that elected judge demonstrates the high degree of objectivity, and the unfailing ability always to make the correct decision, for which our members of Parliament are so well known (give or take a hundred or so Travelgate crooks).
I only have one question: how are we going to protect these elected judges from exposure to social and political “ambiances”? Oh, of course, we only need to lock them up where they can be kept safe from the corrupting influences of the Sowetan and the Mail & Guardian and ETV News to keep them safe from such dangerous influences. Then we can wheel them out whenever a show trial, I mean a constitutional decision, demands it. That will leave plenty of time for the well-connected to loot the state and to spend their money on worthwhile projects – like champagne drinking appreciation classes, visits to drug mule girlfriends in foreign prisons and attending revolutionary parties organised by Kenny Kunene or the intellectual heirs of Brett Kebble.
PS: Apologies for the frivolous nature of this post. I just could not resist it.
I just wonder if the next step will be for big business or even gangsters to sponsor judges in their election campaigns.
“After all, no one wishes to spend 15 years in jail (or, in a best case scenario, a few years in a prison hospital), so it is imperative that the “right” person heads the National Prosecuting Authority and the “right” person heads the office of the Public Protector in order to immunise the looters from criminal prosecution for corruption. And of course, it can turn into a terrible bother when cheeky judges declare invalid an Act of Parliament or an appointment of the President, especially when these judgements threaten to destroy the carefully crafted legal mechanisms and structures put in place to protect the political leadership and those who are close enough to the leadership to benefit financially from an emerging kleptocratic state.”
Interesting then. The CC in accordance with that pathetic paranoid rant are not there to protect the people against poorly formulated legislation i.e. a watch guard against the abuse of human rights – it is in fact a shadow government to protect vested interest against “a one-party dominant democracy” or in our case the African majority.
“(people of integrity)”
I hope that excludes all shysters?
ozoneblue says:
March 2, 2012 at 14:06 pm
Hey OB,
In India we (that’s me and 1.2 billion other coolies) have a saying, called the anti-Bard :
“Be not afraid of stupidity: some are born stupid, some achieve stupidity and some have stupidity thrust upon them”.
It’s only you that uniquely has all of the above!
Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
March 2, 2012 at 14:44 pm
So how do you and Tony Leon say we should defeat this enemy of “democracy” i.e. the will of the people and the African problem of the “one-party dominant democracy”.
Perhaps if you give them more RACISM and more hate to live to live for and some white/Indian people to blame they will never notice that the “democracy” is only for the shysters and the rich?
Shabby analysis. This is much more measured:
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=165490
It’s quite interesting to note that even their youth structures are hypnotized.
ozoneblue
March 2, 2012 at 16:26 pm
Hey OB,
It’s more than likely that Prof MO is turning in his grave!
I’ve been reading Steven Friedman for years. I’m not sure why I’m so uncomfortable with him. In the article DM refers to, while unnecessarily and meanly denigrating the Prof, whose blog he seemingly attends to with vigilance, if not a self serving agenda, Steven speaks of judges having bias, being influenced by their unacknowledged failings and inherent human flaws, their cultural and environmental prejudices, and thus reminding us that as judges they are still human, thus fallible, and why shouldn’t we doubt their decisions, but this as in blanket doubt.
He ignores and does not mention that judges do not like to be overturned, that quality judges go to great lengths to give sound reason supported by precedent for their decisions. They really are in a league of their own, those that tower as wise in the law. And in South Africa I note few truly questionable decisions regarding transformation and justice from the ConCourt.
Its difficult not to see Steven as himself being significantly biased.
Its just a feeling I have, since Steven’s intellect often seems so convincing, however… I’m often left with a certain feeling when reading his material, raising significant doubts….
Latet anguis in herba
Un-named communist regime?! DDR, Deutsche Democratische Republik, polite words do not exist to describe those corrupt @rse lickers.
I worked in West Berlin 1967 / 68 and experienced from high up at the Hilton Hotel near daily goings on at the Wall, a travesty only surpassed in Communist China, USSR, Cambodia, Cuba.
How can anyone doubt that any individual or organization attacking the ConCourt at this time in SA’s history, the Constitution or the media have any other agenda but to weaken these vital Democratic foundations’ powers to limit illegal activity in society. Those who promote such deceit are short sighted with hidden, or not so hidden agendas, who if they succeed will inevitable suffer as well, as will their descendants, along with the rest of us as the consequences of a failed Democracy.
No honor amongst thieves.
North American Indians believe our beliefs and actions influence seven subsequent generations. Criminals are always short sighted.
@Bakerman
Never a dull moment in Berlin!
For that matter @Lisbeth, never a dull moment in South Africa.
‘How can anyone doubt that any individual or organization attacking the ConCourt at this time in SA’s history, the Constitution or the media have any other agenda but to weaken these vital Democratic foundations’ powers to limit illegal activity in society. Those who promote such deceit are short sighted with hidden, or not so hidden agendas, who if they succeed will inevitable suffer as well, as will their descendants, along with the rest of us as the consequences of a failed Democracy.’
Cool off Cassandra. No one is trying to make the judiciary subservient. They’re just reminding judges that they serve in a CO-EQUAL branch of government.
Bakerman
March 2, 2012 at 20:03 pm
“Cambodia, Cuba”
Both start with a “C” I suppose.
South Africa: Cuban Doctors Make a Difference in Rural Areas
http://allafrica.com/stories/201107170156.html
Providing free quality health care to the poor in South Africa. That is just so unspeakably EVIL.
@DM, can you qualify and justify your belief/statement that our government is not deliberately intending to make the courts and the judiciary, not to mention the media, ‘subservient’? I would suggest that your use of the word ‘subservient’ actually confirms from a sub conscious level that your are aware that this in in fact their intent, but that you have other intentions in play. You are obviously intelligent. Is it possible you are unaware of how the game of politics for self enrichment is played at the expense of the people. Surely, at the very minimum you have studied history and come away with some clarity. If not that, then perhaps the study of human avarice.
Is is naivety, personal issues, or self aggrandizement that drives you.
There is no other protection of the SAfrican society which is as important as the CC, or the quality and decisions of the judges who sit therein, without fear, intimidation or favour. Do you understand this?
sirjay jonson
March 2, 2012 at 22:15 pm
“You are obviously intelligent.”
He is a black man. It must be surprising that he is intelligent.
Those evil whites in Cuba collaborated with that communist Cde Mandela! gasp…
“Vice Chancellor of the University of Medical Sciences in Havana, Dr Jorge Gonzalez, lauded former Presidents Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro for engineering the partnership.
“The relationship between South Africa and Cuba is a very historical one. Our blood carries African blood. We feel a part of Africa. Our Cuban doctors will not deny their Cuban heritage but they also feel South African and will fight for the health of the people,” said Gonzalez.”
http://allafrica.com/stories/201107170156.html
Additionally DM. The obvious error which you make, and I suggest this error is deliberate for the purpose of dominance, is your statement as follows (which I might add sums up the self interested ignorance about the vital significance of our Constitution) “CO-EQUAL branch of government”.
This ignorance which is shared by our Government is wrong.
The Constitution is Supreme. The Constitution is Democracy. You and the Government unfortunately need to be educated. What you are all suggesting who question this Constitution respected the world over by “Democratic Countries”, who by the way are the most successful, or have you missed that, is that the executive and the parliament are superior to the Constitution. Well, you are simply wrong, and all educated principled folk understand this. You show yourself as fools, and skelms as well. How you are not embarrassed in your ignorance is beyond me.
One can only applaud the YCL for speaking out boldly against the COUNTERMAJORITARIAN spirit that afflicts our judiciary. Although it is essential that actual Africans be appointed to the bench, genuine TRANSFORMATION will not begin until whitist jurisprudence itself is extirpated.
Thanks very much.
‘Is is naivety, personal issues, or self aggrandizement that drives you.
There is no other protection of the SAfrican society which is as important as the CC, or the quality and decisions of the judges who sit therein, without fear, intimidation or favour. Do you understand this?
The Constitution is Democracy. You and the Government unfortunately need to be educated.’
Ah, to be young and full of self-righteous passion.
What drives me? Self-actualization.
I’m afraid you’re conflating democracy and judicial oligarchy. If a society is so morally base that it is incapable of self-governance, then no theory of jurisprudence, or governance by technocrats, is going to save it from itself.
Moral actions require interior acts of will and cannot be compelled by law. Hence, even mighty judges derive their powers from the consent of those they make legal rules for.
I happen to think highly of S. Africans and believe they are perfectly capable of protecting their liberties through democratic outlets.
The Constitution is not synonymous w/democracy as evidenced by the fact that the Constitution can be democratically amended. The Constitution merely protects those minority rights that a super-majority agree a popular majority should not encroach upon.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 2, 2012 at 22:49 pm
“One can only applaud the YCL for speaking out boldly”
Yes. RACISTS fakes like you had better speak out “boldly” while you have enough time before the bullet enters through the back of the skull.
South Africa, Cuba to train more doctors
13 January 2012
Read more: http://www.mediaclubsouthafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2730:cuba&catid=44:developmentnews&Itemid=111#ixzz1nzqaMKOi
“A blueprint for healthcare
The Cuban healthcare system is respected worldwide and is seen as a model for developing countries. One of the main drawcards of Cuba’s approach is its achievements in primary healthcare and proactive disease prevention in a country with a large rural population. In a recent interview with the Stanford School of Medicine, well known physician and author Paul Drain says although Cuba operates on a limited budget, the country has managed to provide its citizens with effective, affordable health services. “Cuba has achieved developed world health outcomes on a developing world budget,” Drain says in the podcast. Drain says that Cuba has one of the most active programmes in disease prevention in the world. The system offers prenatal care and its vaccination rates are some of the highest in the world – higher than in the US. “It is a system that doesn’t get too much attention and perhaps it ought to,” he says. According to the World Health Organisation (WHO), Cuba has the highest doctor-patient ratio in the world. However, WHO statistics for 2010 put South Africa’s doctor-to-patient ratio at eight doctors for every 10 000 people. About 40% of the country’s doctors are serving 85% of the population who use the public health system. This is according to a discussion document on South Africa’s proposed national health insurance scheme.”"
Dmwangi
March 2, 2012 at 23:14 pm
Hey Dm,
“… the Constitution can be democratically amended.”
Indeed!
In addition to the 75% or 2/3 as required in the relevant sections the democratic amendments are subject to :
167 Constitutional Court
(4) Only the constitutional Court may -
(d) decide on the constitutionality of any amendment to the Constitution;
I’m sure you know that already.
Maybe not.
Here Maggs, straight from the mouth of your prophet– PdV:
‘What the Constitutional Court would almost certainly not be able to do is to review an amendment on grounds not related to the question of whether the correct procedure (as prescribed in section 74) was used when the Constitution was amended. Some commentators seem to have suggested that the Constitutional Court can declare invalid a constitutional amendment because it clashes with other provisions in the Constitution. This is not correct. In the floor crossing case the Constitutional Court made this clear when it found that:
Amendments passed in accordance with the requirements of section 74 of the Constitution become part of the Constitution. Once part of the Constitution, they cannot be challenged on the grounds of inconsistency with other provisions of the Constitution. The Constitution, as amended, must be read as a whole and its provisions must be interpreted in harmony with one another. It follows that there is little if any scope for challenging the constitutionality of amendments that are passed in accordance with the prescribed procedures and majorities.’
Dmwangi
March 3, 2012 at 1:35 am
LOL Dm,
In India we have a saying “Desperate times lead to desperate measures”.
You quoting and relying on the devil incarnate to support your nonsense is ingenious indeed.
In India we also have another saying “Duh!”.
People completely misunderstand this idea that the branches of government are co-equal and that dialogue between them is necessary. In a constitutional democracy with a supreme Constitution, the Con Court decides what the meaning of the Constitution is and how it is applied. In that sense the Con Court looks like it has the final say and that it is more powerful than other branches. But it is not. After entering into a formal structured “dialogue” with the other branches by providing its interpretation of the Constitution in a specific written judgment (an interpretation that must take seriously any interpretation given to the legislation and the Constitution by other branches – if the government lawyers are good enough or bother to give such an interpretation). But then the other branches have every right to respond – once as gain FORMALLY – to such a judgment by preparing legislation that responds to the judgment or by preparing new policies that respond to it. The Court can then, if requested by an interested party, look at these responses and ask whether they comply with the Constitution. If, in the end, the other “political” branches remain deeply unhappy with the Con Court position, they can amend the Constitution (if they can muster the requisite majorities). In that sense the three branches are co-equal, but NOT in the sense that the Con Court does not have the definitive power to interpret and apply the Constitution (with due regard to what the other branches think), as expressed in court papers and not in secret seminars outside of the court process, something our government seem to favour.
“Rural Health Facts
Rural areas, home to 43,6% of the population, are served by only 12% of South Africa’s doctors and 19% of its nurses
There are 30 generalist doctors and 30 specialists per 100 000 people in urban areas, but only 13 generalists and a mere 2 specialists per 100 000 people in rural areas
The ratio of professional nurses to the population is 82% greater in Gauteng than in Mpulamanga
Of the 1200 medical students graduating in SA yearly, only about 35 end up working in rural areas in the longer term
Three out the four Districts with the highest HIV prevalence are rural”
http://www.rhap.org.za/
So then here is my first proposed amendment to the Constitution.
“20. Citizenship
20.1 No citizen may be deprived of citizenship.
20.2 Every citizen has an obligation to serve his/her country to the best of his/her ability.
20.3 Every citizen shall be required to perform community duty as and when mandated by circumstance.”
Ask not what your skin colour can do for you, but ask what you can do for your skin colour.
Pierre De Vos
March 3, 2012 at 9:25 am
Hey PdV,
“something our government seem to favour.”
There’s nothing to support that. The noise making and chest beating from some quarters about the ‘powers of the Constitutional Court’ is no more than just that.
Friedman nonetheless has a point – for example R50 000 for naughty schoolboy pranks can hardly be what the drafters of our Constitution had in mind. Nor would they in their wildest have intended that a father to raping his own young child than another child is mitigation.
A way has to be found to both demystify the courts and remedy (or at least prevent recurrence) of some really awful judgements.
It cannot have been intended that in a truly participative democracy for our courts to be, as they seems to have become, elite institutions isolated, separate and distinct from “We the people …”
But Professor!
You are a committed communist aren’t you? It is perfectly sensible for the courts to be subservient to the Party in a communist regime.
Nothing here should surprise you.
@ Maggs
“A way has to be found to both demystify the courts and remedy (or at least prevent recurrence) of some really awful judgements.”
Maggs, most of us would be fascinated to learn how you think we can go about remedying “awful judgments” of the CC. Do you have in mind, perhaps, that REALLY BAD decisions could be overturned by a 99% referendum? Or that a procedure be created to allow the VERY WORST judgments to be appealed to the World Court? Whatever your solution, it would be invaluable if you would prepare a short seminar on it!
Thanks very much indeed.
“You are a committed communist aren’t you”
Zooks! You are very good at picking up very subtle symptoms of ideological commitments that are lost on less observant followers, like myself. Please share the tell-tale clues that have allowed you to discern that PdV is a COMMUNIST (as opposed to a leftish leaning-liberal, a Social Democrat, or some kind of wishy-washy proponent of a mixed economy.)
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 3, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Hey Dworky,
“Maggs, most of us would be fascinated to learn how you think we can go about remedying “awful judgments” of the CC.”
I got three options – choose one.
- send the silly judges to India to eat bunny chow with lots of chilli with 1.2 billion coolies.
- send them to Uganda to be concubines of Idi Amin.
- put them in front of a firing squad led by Brett.
WDYS?
p.s. If you really want them to suffer – let them listen to Ozoneguy and Dmwangi for an hour!
PdV @ 9:25:
First you say: ‘People completely misunderstand this idea that the branches of government are co-equal and that dialogue between them is necessary.’
Then you go on to give a rote summary of Ngcobo’s notion of ‘constitutional dialogue’ (although the concept did not originate with him).
But at the end of the day, the point is moot. No court can continually make rulings that are hostile to the majority’s will. Trust in the judiciary and respect for the law will erode and democratic inertia will force judges to ‘re-interpret’ the Constitution in ways that more closely align majoritarian preferences.
Maggs @ 10:13:
Excellent comment. Please continue using your cognitive faculties before posting. It makes things much more pleasant.
@Dmwangi
who is the majority? the majority in parliament or the people that voted them into office in order to protect and advance the citizens rights? then tell me exactly where we, the people, gave the ANC, the party with the elected majority, the mandate to go about with corrupt practices? to waste money on how many planes to visit foreign meetings and waste millions? it just seem to me that the poor are suffering at the whims of the Elite. Majoritarianism seem to me at this stage is more a farce when it comes to the poor.You cannot just attribute the will of the people to everything the majority party does(sorry going off the point).
Your comment about the trust in the courts, if it does not align with the majority parties decision, eroding is wrong in my opinion. The reason I believe that there is no trust in the judiciary, I cannot say about the CC, is because we do not see the prosecution of high profile politicians. It seems as if there exist different laws of equality when there is the prosecution. a poor man takes R100(probably because he want to feed his family)- he is sent to jail; A politician steals millions( calls it fruitless and wasteful expenditure) – it takes years to get him to go to trial and then he gets off with a slap on the wrist.
It always seem that some are more equal than other. This I believe is the root of faith in the judiciary eroding.
The comedian Paul Mooney talks about the “Complexion for the protection for the collection” when it comes to the treatment of certain racial groups, He obviously talks about a different complexion, but the principle seem to me to be the same.
This comment section has been IP blocked/censored?
OB:
Don’t think so. One of PdV’s few virtues is that he seems to be a classical liberal vis-a-vis free speech and exchange of ideas.
@Zoo Keeper
March 3, 2012 at 11:14 am
He is anything but a Communist, not even a socialist or a Social Democrat. He is ( like so many other South Africa fake liberals) what James Myburgh calls a “racial Leninist” or to put it simply a politically correct RACIST.
“Historically, socialism appealed to black nationalists as a means of fulfilling Africanist aspirations. When socialist economic policies became an obstacle to the ANC’s quest for power after the collapse of the Soviet bloc, Mbeki and other black nationalists within the ANC dropped them, but retained Leninist politics, albeit a special version that conflated race and class, as expressed in Mbeki’s Two Nations thesis. This racial Leninism provided them with a blueprint for overturning South Africa’s unjust historic order.”
PdV would never subscribe to real socialism because that would mean that he may have to give up on some of the luxuries that his middle/upper class privileges affords him. nice little luxuries like private medicine and education. For white liberals like PdV who have already entrenched their own positions of privilege through the equally RACIST Apartheid system the future of South-Africa i.e. the construction of a national identity is also not very important – it is about building an ostensibly “authentic” bulwark against real socialism to maintain the status quo.
For some reason I cannot post a link to the above quote.
Mbeki’s revolutionary nationalist agenda by James Myburgh.
“The lessons drawn from the collapse of communism by the black nationalist grouping which gravitated around Thabo Mbeki were quite the converse to that of the SACP. Historically, socialism appealed to African nationalists not as an end in itself, but rather as means of fulfilling Africanist aspirations. President Julius Nyerere explained the 1967 decision to nationalise the Tanzanian economy as serving primarily a nationalist purpose. “The only way” he said “in which nationalist control of the economy can be achieved is through the economic institutions of socialism”. By the 1990s such policies, as Mbeki realised, were not only no longer credible but also an obstacle to the movement coming to power. But while this grouping in the ANC moved away from socialist economics it remained wedded to Leninist politics. This was a Leninism of a special type, though. The conflation of the concepts of race and class – which found most notable expression in Mbeki’s Two Nations thesis – allowed much of the analysis, and many of the prescriptions of Leninist doctrine to be applied to South Africa’s racially divided society.
The appeal of this (racial) Leninism to the African nationalists was that it provided a blueprint for the revolutionary transformation of society. For while they had no particular emotional attachment to socialism they possessed a passionate desire to overturn an unjust historic order and harboured a deep contempt for existing institutions and their incumbents. Although the collapse of communism had closed off one route for the attainment of their aspirations, particularly nationalisation, that only meant that the movement would have to search out others.”
OB
Interesting reference to Lenin. It is difficult to find a more evil leader than Lenin in the annals of history. He may not have been depraved like Caligula, but his assault on his own people for his own gain is – to me – unparalleled. Usually evil leaders have some manner of popular support and oppress certain groups. Lenin hammered everyone except his troops.
Perhaps the reference to Lenin by Myburgh is a result of a misapprehension of who he really was?
Zoo Keeper
March 4, 2012 at 10:03 am
Of course Lenin was MEGA-EVIL. Just like the ideal to providing free quality education and health care to the rural and township poor.
“The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. … It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. … The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. … Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob, and disunite the workers. … Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations.”
Vladimir Lenin
Sounds familiar doesn’t it.
“The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races.”
OB
Forget what he said, go and look at what he did. Lenin robbed the entire Russian population to keep his Bolsheviks going, murdering anybody who got in his way peasants included – in fact mostly peasants! Not just the Jews but everyone.
Lenin held no other ideal except complete domination of everything and everyone by the Bolshevik party. The Russian populace were to become slaves of the Bolsheviks, not free emancipated individuals the propaganda would have you believe.
Your attempt at sarcasm in the first paragraph reveals a complete lack of apprehension for what he REALLY did and who he REALLY was.
Zoo Keeper
March 4, 2012 at 11:16 am
“Lenin robbed the entire Russian population to keep his Bolsheviks going,”
But Lenin’s intentions were NOBLE.
Just like Slavery, Colonialism, Hendrik Verwoerd, Apartheid, Communism, Capitalism, The Cold War, the NDR, The War on Terror, BEE and AA.
OB
You’re wrong, his intentions were exceptionally ignoble, hidden by nice words.
Zoo Keeper
March 4, 2012 at 13:39 pm
So that seems to be a purely ideological and self-serving pov without any reference to facts. So then – to be consistent, Apartheid must also have been particularly noble system since it kept out the ignoble Bolsheviks and their proxies the ignoble Cubans? Then of course we had the noble Apartheid regime in alliance with the noble, capitalist USA/Britain?
OB
Make sense or give up
@ ozoneblue
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
Winston Churchill once said that. To which I’d like to add that people like yourself, who clamour for socialism, should have the chance to experience it in all its splendour, so that in due course you may find out that you’re not too crazy about it after all.
@ OzoneBlue
Thanks for citing Myburgh’s RACIAL LENINISM analysis. Myburgh is often off the mark; but in this instance he is incisive.
To add to what you quoted from Lenin on identity politics, I have always admired his brilliant little aphorism: “Anti-semitism is the Socialism of the Idiot.”
Just for you, ozoneblue:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/02/09/with-the-financial-crisis-did-capitalism-fail/
Michael Osborne says:
March 4, 2012 at 15:30 pm
Hhhmmm!
I wonder that OBS cannot substitute ‘Indian’ for ‘Jew’.
Lisbeth
March 4, 2012 at 15:26 pm
you mean Winston Churchill – your capitalist hero who allowed millions of Indians to starve to death under his capitalist colonial rule? Why should I take that genocidal racist pig seriously – or take whatever he said as from higher moral authority acclaim than even Joseph Stalin himself? Cause he is British?
And please don’t come with that bullshit that Britain/USA “saved us” from Nazism – if it wasn’t for the monumental Battle of Stalingrad you would be speakin der german and throwing der Nazi salute.
Brett
As an aside, I see yesterday that your mates at GFSA and The Star exposed the return of licences to the Kebble killers.
That’s not the real news, the real news is that the article had the exact details of these licences, including makes and calibres. To me, this kind of information is sacrosanct between the state and the individual, up there with medical records and maybe beyond.
I believe you are going to miss a trick if you do not make a monster of a fuss about this kind of breach of confidentiality by the CFR.
Lisbeth
March 4, 2012 at 15:36 pm
Just for you, lisbeth:
Goldman Sachs rules the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpg76VjTa58
@ ozoneblue
Hey, couldn’t agree more: Churchill was an old bastard. I should know, I’m speakin der German. Killing civilians, all in a day’s work for him (Dresden being just one example).
Which is not to say I didn’t like his socialism quote.
Throwing der Nazi salute? Nah, so last century.
Lisbeth:
While I’m glad to see you read sources other than PdV’s blog, I would advise you not to take advice about macroeconomics from a woman who completed a CA in 1961.
Let’s examine:
‘If money had been privately provided and controlled, we would not be facing the current crisis. Currency debasement then, and currency debasement now, is a surreptitious method used by issuers to extract money from holders of the currency without openly stealing it. Currency debasement destroyed the Roman Empire and threatens to destroy our civilization.’
What? The use of fiat currency caused the crisis?
Is this woman advocating the gold std or a barter system? She seems to not understand that government-backed units of exchange are quite good at providing market liquidity, driving down transaction costs, and creating efficient prices. She also seems to conflate QE with inflation because she doesn’t understand a thing about how the money supply operates. (MSxV)/P=Output, where V is the velocity of money. Hence, ceteris paribus, when economic activity slows, central banks can offset this by increasing the money supply and without having any necessary affect on prices.
‘Does all voluntary exchange between individuals occur free of third-party intervention, and is that the reason for failure?’
No. And it should not. Governments should intermediate/regulate financial markets. Done correctly, regulation makes markets function more efficiently. Examples abound but an easy one is bank deposit insurance.
Had governments regulated credit creation and credit derivatives more closely, there likely would not have been a crisis.
Another reason for regulation is where information asymmetries distort transactions– the premise upon which much of the National Credit Act is based.
‘without having any necessary affect on prices.’ Sorry, of course this affects prices. What I meant was price stability. Increasing MS as velocity drops tries to hold prices stable so no deflation occurs. No ‘visible’ affect on prices.
@Dmwangi:
“While I’m glad to see you read sources other than PdV’s blog …”
I’m glad you’re glad. Gotta go.
Lisbeth
March 4, 2012 at 18:32 pm
“Hey, couldn’t agree more: Churchill was an old bastard. I should know, I’m speakin der German.”
He might have been an “old bastard” yes. He may have overseen and been the direct cause of millions (10^6) Indian peasants dying of hunger. But that is not the caricature that history would paint of him, he is no racist Apartheid Verwoerd no way, but the main culprits remain those evil Communists who advocated a system that these investment bankers and traders who rule the world do not like.
Andile Mngxitama explains his black fascism very well: “Who cares about white workers”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs1n9LGvX_Q&feature=related
I care about white workers Andile and if you don’t believe me I will meet you again with a very clean conscious over the barrel of a gun.
Dmwangi
March 4, 2012 at 18:50 pm
Hey Dm,
“Had governments regulated credit creation and credit derivatives more closely, there likely would not have been a crisis.”
We’ll never know, will we?
‘Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
March 4, 2012 at 21:03 pm
Dmwangi
March 4, 2012 at 18:50 pm
Hey Dm,
“Had governments regulated credit creation and credit derivatives more closely, there likely would not have been a crisis.”
We’ll never know, will we?’
Yeah, and according to Mbeki, we’ll never know what causes AIDS.
Arguing counterfactuals can be dangerous but I’m on pretty solid ground on this one.
Dmwangi
March 4, 2012 at 21:53 pm
Hey Dm,
“Arguing counterfactuals can be dangerous but I’m on pretty solid ground on this one.”
Are you suggesting that economics is (or is capable of being) an exact science?
It’s the ‘dismal science.’ But there are certain mathematical principles used that can be known with certitude.
Dmwangi
March 4, 2012 at 22:30 pm
Dm,
“But there are certain mathematical principles used that can be known with certitude.”
Which are these mathematical principles “that can be known with certitude”?
Catamite,
Examples abound: utility functions, demand curves, regression relationships, national income accounting. There is margin for error in any empirical observation but that is also true in virology, computational biology, quantum mechanics, and pretty much all of the ‘knowledge’ that went into creating the devices and Internet you use to argue ad infinitum.
The only difference between economics and the ‘hard sciences’ is with respect to ex-ante statements since natural laws are fixed and therefore unchanging, while human behavior is not. Ex-post they have the same epistemic status since they’re both simply observational/empiricist.
Now stop being a child and go to bed.
Dmwangi
March 4, 2012 at 23:27 pm
Hey Dm,
“natural laws are fixed and therefore unchanging”
Which natural laws are those?
Maggs is right.
We can really never know anything about anything. Law is the luck of the draw. Economics is dismally opaque. Aeroplanes fly by wire.
We are all but Humean beings. That is why me and Maggs use an artful combination of guesswork and elastic bands to run our lives!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 5, 2012 at 7:06 am
Hey Dworky,
Somebody (I’m not sure who it was, maybe it was Dmwangi) famously said
“If we knew the meaning to everything that is happening to us, then there would be no meaning.”
Anyway if we subscribe to the view that there can be “certitude” then we might as well endorse religious fundamentalism.
You and Dm could have a point though – maybe god did speak to our CJ, Mogoeng squared!
Good for Cele unlike many who doubt black SC’s.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/03/05/top-notch-lawyer-to-represent-bheki-cele
ozoneblue says:
March 4, 2012 at 16:13 pm
One of my favourite movies is ‘Enemy at the Gates’.
Fascists and communists opening a can of whupass on each other.
Why the Fat Cats don’t like the ConCourt
Jeremy Gordin
02 March 2012
“Jeremy Gordin says the court has committed the unforgivable crime of doing its job
The chattering and twittering classes have been agog this week following the Tuesday announcement of the reasons for the government’s so-called review of the judiciary, including the Constitutional Court, and of how this review will be implemented.
Thank heavens that Radio 702′s John Robbie chose to have Professor David Unterhalter on the airwaves on Wednesday morning to offer an analysis of the matter rather than Professor Pierre de Vos.
De Vos, a “constitutional law expert” from the Western Cape, has had such hissy fits on the subject during the last few weeks that often he has been almost as obscure as Justice Minister Jeff Thamsanqa Radebe and his boss, President Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma.
In fairness to him, De Vos has not been the only one.”
Zoo Keeper says:
March 4, 2012 at 16:17 pm
Hey, I could not even get Pierre to read Mistry and explain how the FCA’s rape of informational privacy could be justified considering the way the development of the right to informational privacy seem to be heading.
(I could not even get Michael to read the Act!)
You raise an interesting point that leads to many more. Schulz and Co are scum and I’m glad someone blew the whistle on their being re-armed – legally.
But, as you say, S14 of the Constitution protects them as well.
Pierre’s buddies at GFSA have had access to the Register before that they should not.
Many gunowners like to believe they caused the computer system to crash and lose a lot of data.
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=283866&sn=Detail&pid=71616
Untrained police a danger to public – Kohler Barnard
Dianne Kohler Barnard
04 March 2012
DA MP says minister must tell parliament whether 27,000 cops did indeed fail firearm test
Summon Police Minister to Parliament to explain 27 000 cops failing firearm test
More than 27 000 members of the South African Police Service (SAPS) are not fit to carry or fire a gun. This is according to a draft performance audit report by the SAPS published in the Sunday Times today.
I will be writing to the Chairperson of Parliament’s Police Committee requesting that the Minister of Police Nathi Mthethwa and Acting Police Commissioner Lieutenant-General Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi be summoned to explain themselves.
The Minister must tell us whether the findings of the report are true, how long he has known about this report, what he intends to do to address this situation and who will be held accountable for this flagrant breaking of the law.
Acting Police Commissioner Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi must explain why he, as Chief Accounting Officer of the SAPS, claims to not have seen or heard of the report dated 14 December 2011.
Despite failing the firearms proficiency test, many officers continue to carry official service weapons. This poses a clear and present danger to the citizens they are mandated to protect.
South Africa demands a police service that is competent, professional and efficient in combatting the scourge of serious and violent crime across the country.
SAPS members should not be endangering the lives of others and adding to the problem by carrying guns when they are clearly not fit to do so.
Both the Minister and the Acting National Police Commissioner must account to Parliament and outline the action they will be taking to ensure that the SAPS does not violate its own constitutional responsibility to protect and secure South Africa citizens.
Statement issued by Dianne Kohler Barnard MP, DA Shadow Minister of Police, March 4 2012
Obasanjo and the DA Youth league.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/Feeds/2012/03/05/the-big-read-it-is-wrong-to-define-blacks-by-their-wealth
Does Sirjay have anything to do with this development?
http://dailymaverick.co.za/article/2012-03-04-canada-may-end-entry-ban-on-anc-members
Hugh Masekela interview.
Have you forgiven white people in South Africa?
“I don’t think I have the power to forgive. I think the most difficult thing that has had to happen in South Africa for the previously disadvantaged communities is they had to reconcile that the oppressor has been enriched and the establishment is now making five or 10 times more profit than they were during the time the economic embargo was on them.
There’s never in history been a people who have ever said to another people: “Hey, sorry we made so much fucking money off your backs. Here’s 500-trillion to show you how sorry we are for enslaving you.”
The inequalities are still there. We’re not being harassed by police at night or being arrested for stupid things, but there are inequalities. And life is not an act, we’re not in a movie.”
“Pure and simple, the subtext in this kind of reporting and framing is: “You black people must stop complaining. Here is one of you who is very rich, richer than the *white man*.” So when *black people* continue to lament lack of transformation, cry for more affirmative action and black economic empowerment, this subtext can be used to say, “You guys are billionaires now. Shut the hell up.”"
Pure and simple, the subtext in this kind of reporting and framing is: “You black people must stop complaining. Here is one of you who is very rich, richer than the white man.”
Exactly. I’m very happy the writer realizes the self-contradictory irony. Perhaps the subtext is that not all black people are poor just as not all white people are rich as the usual bullshit goes and that is why some white people feel it is necessary to mention just how colorless insatiable greed and capitalism is.
Get a fucking grip.
Maggs:
A mathematician is flying non-stop from Edmonton to Frankfurt with Air Transat. The scheduled flying time is nine hours.
Some time after takeoff, the pilot announces that one engine had to be turned off due to mechanical failure: “Don’t worry – we’re safe. The only noticeable effect this will have for us is that our total flying time will be ten hours instead of nine.”
A few hours into the flight, the pilot informs the passengers that another engine had to be turned off due to mechanical failure: “But don’t worry – we’re still safe. Only our flying time will go up to twelve hours.”
Some time later, a third engine fails. But the pilot reassures the passengers: “Don’t worry! Even with one engine, we’re still perfectly safe. It just means that it will take sixteen hours for this plane to arrive in Frankfurt.”
The mathematician remarks to his fellow passengers: “If the last engine breaks down too, then we’ll be in the air for twenty-four hours altogether!”
Makes sense to me. I guess that’s all anyone ever needs to know about maths. To hell with demand curves and regression relationships!
Gospodin Fassbinder:
“We are all but Humean beings”
Nice … very nice. I love it!
“There’s never in history been a people who have ever said to another people: “Hey, sorry we made so much fucking money off your backs. Here’s 500-trillion to show you how sorry we are for enslaving you.””
As if slavery was never practiced in Africa before whites arrived? Perhaps he has no problem with Patrice Motsepe buying a stake in Anglo American Platinum’s Modikwa and also making lots of money off black mineworkers graves.
Go and listen to your own song Bra Hugh – that STIMELA is coming and it would be your own black brothers who enslave you again like it has happened centuries before.
Gwebecimele says:
March 5, 2012 at 15:41 pm
If Hugh Masekela could get his head out of his rectum he might realise that South Africa is one of the most redistributive states in the world, and has been for the last century; and that if there are grounds for the perception on the ground that ‘nothing has changed’ he just need look at the nearest ANC T-shirt.
Most white SOuth Africans give more than half their incomes so that there might be ‘a better life for all’.
What more does the stupid dwis want?
‘Anyway if we subscribe to the view that there can be “certitude” then we might as well endorse religious fundamentalism.’
Excellent. And yet Catamite is rigidly dogmatic in his skepticism, belief in Constitutional supremacy, the moral uprightness of homo marriage, the legitimacy of grievance politics, etc.
Those are fine. But everything else– math, science, economics– should all be subject to systematic skepticism. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling! Whose the fundamentalist here?!
Brett Nortje
March 5, 2012 at 16:16 pm
Not to mention that white devil that despite the abhorrent Apartheid system bought young Masekela his first trumpet and help make him into an international star.
Can Bra Hugh ever forgive him?
ozoneblue, i had the pleasure in meeting a cuban orthopedic surgeon in botswana some years ago.
1. his salary was paid to the cuban government, he was paid some pocket money
2. there were 4 or 5 of them, all looking after each other, to make sure no one defected
3. even defection was impossible as his family was in cuba & not permitted to visit him, maybe one at a time
Lisbet, west berlin, don’t know today, but the late 60′s were a eye opener in many ways, exept east berlin which was a sad farce , run by dangerous incompetents, thats why i look around me (political wise) total dejavu ?
Hi Bakerman,
Nice to hear from you again.
Yes, I missed out on “West” and “East” Berlin but am familiar with the history … today, of course, there’s only one Berlin, Germany’s capital city and seat of its parliament. It’s run by the usual suspects – i.e. dangerous incompetents – and populated by what seems to me entirely to be protesters. The Berliners of today have issues with just about everything. Apparently, not a single day goes by without some or other protest of the most flamboyant kind. Not my sort of place I must say; I rather like the quiet life in the R of SA …
Bakerman
March 5, 2012 at 17:32 pm
So what where your thoughts on the Rote Armee Fraktion?
On behalf of the North Korea, I extend an invitation to the YCL – and those here of a like mind – to get on the first plane and head over to N Korea. There is much there you’ll love: very little food, very little electricity, very little law; the Prez makes it up as he goes along, only one birthday a year, that of the ‘brother’ leader, you can’t celebrate your own; ALL journalists have TWO minders; one to mind and the other to keep an eye on the minder, if you remark the Prez is a little short you get 30 years in jail, no foreign tv, news, or emails, and so much more. Go…you’ll love it.
“World War II was only twenty years earlier. Those in charge of the police, the schools, the government — they were the same people who’d been in charge under Nazism. The chancellor, Kurt Georg Kiesinger, had been a Nazi. People started discussing this only in the 60′s. We were the first generation since the war, and we were asking our parents questions. Due to the Nazi past, everything bad was compared to the Third Reich. If you heard about police brutality, that was said to be just like the SS. The moment you see your own country as the continuation of a fascist state, you give yourself permission to do almost anything against it. You see your action as the resistance that your parents did not put up.”
— Stefan Aust, author of Der Baader Meinhof Komplex
andre
March 5, 2012 at 21:01 pm
” to get on the first plane and head over to N Korea.”
I’m starting to feel that may not be such an unattractive option. Let us all be yellow peasants again, As long as I don’t have to hear more historically warped balderdash about those evil whites oppressing the noble blacks.
Dmwangi
March 5, 2012 at 16:52 pm
Hey Dm,
“But everything else– math, science, economics– should all be subject to systematic skepticism. ”
You seem unable to support you silly assertions.
And your “economics” is as solid as a rat’s arse.
‘“But everything else– math, science, economics– should all be subject to systematic skepticism. ”’
That was your assertion, catamite.(‘Anyway if we subscribe to the view that there can be “certitude” then we might as well endorse religious fundamentalism.’)
I am more than happy to subscribe to the view that the physical laws of nature– weak force, strong force, electromagnetic force, gravity– can be known w/certitude.
You’re the one who makes asinine claims of dogmatic skepticism while simultaneously assuring us that you know, just know, that judicial supremacy is correct.
You’re a professional agitator, charlatan and drain on the economy and society, generally. I pity your children and their progeny. What did that American jurist say: ‘Three generations of imbeciles is enough.’ Perhaps, in your case, we should reconsider eugenics.
“I am more than happy to subscribe to the view that the physical laws of nature– weak force, strong force, electromagnetic force, gravity– can be known w/certitude.
You’re the one who makes asinine claims of dogmatic skepticism while simultaneously assuring us that you know, just know, that judicial supremacy is correct.”
LOL. Brilliant.
@ Andre
“… get on the first plane and head over to N Korea. There is much there you’ll love: very little food …”
It is sad to hear you speak the “truth” about North Korea — as described by the CIA, and distributed globally by the liberal media, including the South Africa media, which is itself little more than the publicity wing of the DA. (I suppose you have swallowed with equal credulity the American account of the only other socialist state, Cuba.)
ozoneblue, Red Army Faction?, used to read Ulrike Meinhof’s “Konkret” magazine,
maybe similar to a current local investigative publication,
Myself coming from a low income family, could never connected with those lofty upper middle class drop outs, being students with to much time on their hands, they lived in an other world.Interestingly saw a tv program the other day on Baader Meinhof, interesting, reconfirmed my thoughts, they did not represent anyone but themselves.
A name comes to mind, Rudy Dutschke, also one of those forever students with high flying idea’s, in the end he died died in danemark, a reasonably young person,
never achieving anything tangible, good for man kind
Dmwangi
March 5, 2012 at 21:43 pm
LOL Stupid Guy,
Show, if you can, where I asserted whatever you say I did!
Also show where you get this from “simultaneously assuring us that you know, just know, that judicial supremacy is correct”.
I will stand on my view that in our democracy, our Constitution is supreme.
p.s. Is your gardener a happy chappy (more so during the “other” 245 days)?
Bakerman
March 6, 2012 at 5:44 am
“Myself coming from a low income family, could never connected with those lofty upper middle class drop outs,”
Yes, after all the pro-capitalist Western Germany was run by a bunch of ex-nazis. Much like Afrikaner nationalism was manipulated by Anglo capital to block progressive, pro-socialist forces in South Africa. And believe me they will and are doing it again – this time the fascist ideology of choice African nationalism.
But what do you say to this:
“Due to the Nazi past, everything bad was compared to the Third Reich. If you heard about police brutality, that was said to be just like the SS. The moment you see your own country as the continuation of a fascist state, you give yourself permission to do almost anything against it. You see your action as the resistance that your parents did not put up.”
Now read between the lines – see where I’m going with this:
“Perhaps he has no problem with Patrice Motsepe buying a stake in Anglo American Platinum’s Modikwa and also making lots of money off black mineworkers graves.”
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 5, 2012 at 23:04 pm
Absolutely.
“WikiLeaks cables: Michael Moore film Sicko was ‘not banned’ in Cuba
Film-maker says diplomats made up the story to discredit film that showed healthcare was worse in US than Cuba”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/18/wikileaks-us-diplomats-story-cuba-banned-sicko-film
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
March 5, 2012 at 23:04 pm
Speaking of the CIA….
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-barack-obama-conclusively-outed-as-cia-creation/
ozoneblue says:
March 6, 2012 at 7:08 am
Those ‘pro-capitalist’ West Germans rebuilt a country devastated by war in less time than the ANusClowns have been in government.
As for the redbastardEastGermans? I would give a left bodypart for one of the Shepherds they bred for border patrol – to keep their own people in.
To keep them from escaping to pro-capitalist Western Germany run by a bunch of ex-nazis.
“Yes, after all the pro-capitalist Western Germany was run by a bunch of ex-nazis.”
Brett Nortje
March 6, 2012 at 8:11 am
Hey G,
“I would give a … bodypart”.
Dmwangi will very happy to hear that.
He settled in South Africa, hoping to find one, er, volunteer.
p.s. His better half won’t be “amused” – nevermind the gardener will have extra chores.
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=284149&sn=Detail&pid=71616
@ Brett
“I would give a left bodypart for one of the Shepherds [the East Germans] bred for border patrol”
Brett, funny you mention say this, because in May 1987 I sold my kidney to a shady trader in Sofia, to buy Matilda’s freedom. She was being held in a filthy, overcrowded pen, used to house hundreds of retired ducks that had been forced to patrol the border, to stop Bulgarians from crossing the border to find a better life in Ceaușescu’s Rumania.
Thanks.
Hey, Dworky – did you see Bibi is in Washington meeting his handler?
Brett Nortje says:
March 6, 2012 at 8:11 am
Of course, those ‘pro-capitalist’ West Germans didn’t have a millstone like Cosatu around their necks.
The German unions did not desert dying babies in incubators to dance around hospitals, chuck security guards who did not want to strike from moving trains, destroy effective education of the nation’s children, rubbish streets, settle tribal scores under cover of a mineworkers strike, ransack the steel company that nominally employed them and hold non-strikers hostage, etc, etc, etc…
“Those ‘pro-capitalist’ West Germans rebuilt a country devastated by war in less time than the ANusClowns have been in government.”
Brett Nortje
March 6, 2012 at 9:41 am
Are you, maggot and PdV anxious about losing your privileged PRIVATIZED health care and education. Rather stir up another race war that you two will not have to fight?
Why do you think FW De Klerk unbanned the ANC/SACP/Costau alliance in 1989, cause good old FW used to be a racist White and then all of a sudden he saw the light?
What do you think about our new breed of billionaire “oppressed” blacks who are BEE partners of Anglo American but keep on stirring up racial hatred about how “blacks” are poor and still oppressed whereas “whites” are all rich and the oppressors.
The wonderful struggle friends of Thabo Mbeki and Nelson Mandela.
Mandela honours ‘monumental’ Oppenheimer
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/mandela-honours-monumental-oppenheimer-1.47780
“Oppenheimer, arguably South Africa’s most respected businessman, was a vocal opponent of his country’s racist regime that sanctioned apartheid for decades. “Disagreeable though it may be, we must admit that the racial policy which has been pursued here over the last 40 years has made South Africa stink in the nostrils of decent, humane people around the world,” Oppenheimer said in a speech in 1989.
But Oppenheimer’s role as the leading businessman in South Africa made his position within the racist regime ambiguous. His labor-intensive mines thrived on a migrant labor system that forced black workers to live apart from their families, and his companies paid black workers far less than whites.His economic success was considered crucial to the survival of the apartheid government, which ruled until South Africa’s first all-race elections in 1994.
The Oppenheimer dynasty began in 1917, when Harry Oppenheimer’s father, Ernest, founded the Anglo American Corp., a mining company. Ernest Oppenheimer took control of De Beers in 1929. After finishing college in England, Harry Oppenheimer became heavily immersed in his father’s businesses and in South African politics. He was elected as an opposition member of Parliament in 1948, while he was already managing director of Anglo American. Upon his father’s death in 1957, Harry Oppenheimer resigned his parliamentary seat and took command of both Anglo American and De Beers. He greatly diversified Anglo American’s international holdings and turned De Beers into a cartel that still controls the vast majority of the world’s diamond markets. Under Oppenheimer’s leadership, De Beers made huge profits, not only by selling diamonds, but by stockpiling them in times of great supply to increase their price artificially. Even during the darkest days of international sanctions against South African companies, Oppenheimer managed to prosper by using an inscrutably tangled web of holdings to mask his international business deals. Oppenheimer retired in 1982 as Anglo American chairman and in 1984 from De Beers. “Never dictatorial, his style rather was one of rational argument and persuasion, and his influence on the course of politics in South Africa, as well as business, was as remarkable as it was pervasive,” said Julian Ogilvy-Thompson, chairman of Anglo American. Oppenheimer also served in the ceremonial post of chancellor of the University of Cape Town and was chairman of the Urban Foundation, an organization to promote black housing and education.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/aug/21/local/me-7934
Maggs and Ozoneboy:
I am no great fan of Mr Malema. But I see an element of RACISM in the manner he has been treated. I remain convinced that, had the ANCYL President been white, there is no way the ANC structures would have trampled on his procedural rights as they have in the instance of Mr Malema.
WDYS?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 6, 2012 at 11:19 am
Dworky,
White people should not be allowed to be Captains of cricket teams – local, provincial or national!
WDYS?
Maggs, I have not studied RACISM in cricket per se. Provisionally, I am inclined to agree that, where there is a better or equally qualified Khoi or San player, she or he should lead the team. However, the vice-captain should ideally be whitish, so as to provide ROLE MODELS for aspiring yet self-hating “BANTOE.”
WDYS?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 6, 2012 at 11:19 am
I agree that a lot of the hysterical rhetoric around Malema (or more or less what he represents) is in fact racist. Personally I have no problem with Malema being a business man, having material wealth (in the clear in absence of any spiritual wealth) or that he lives in a fancy house in Sandton and drive a fancy car. What I have a problem with is Malema’s racist rhetoric that seeks to vilify some ethnic groups – but I’m sure that when you are a “white” you can appreciate that the less educated amongst us can easily mistake you for a boer.
I may not be a boer – but when I’m forced to be one by virtue of some racist group association beyond my control I can most certainly act like one when it comes to the little matter of “survival of the fittest” and the noble act of self-preservation.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
March 6, 2012 at 13:12 pm
lol.
I see it is more convenient to discuss racism in cricket than the whitish habit of the PRIVATIZATION of health and education.
Can you cope without it MDF – or do you also secretly hope that we would all remain so obsessed by race that we will forget about inequality and never plummet to the same levels of evil that idealizes the concept of free quality health services/basic education to everybody like in that socialist hell hole called Cuba.
OH SHIT. Apparently there is no racial affirmative action in Cuba. It sounds very much from each according to his ability – to each according to his need.
“Like in other countries, students compete for the best educational opportunities. Testing is done to spot talented students.”
http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/education_in_cuba.html
Could have been they stole that racist concept of merit from the Freedom Charter.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
March 6, 2012 at 13:12 pm
Dworky,
I dunno about the Khoi or San (or even Mrs Ples for that matter) did not occupy the WC before the WHITE man came – so they’re out.
There’s a game I invented only for WHITE people – throwing large rocks at each other. It’s called “catch” for those who do; or “splat” for those who don’t.
It goes better with lots of beer. Do you think it will become popular at weekend braai’s?
p.s. Dmwangi can also play and “impress White people”.
@ OzoneBlue
“there is no racial affirmative action in Cuba.”
It seems you are correct — but see the claim by a Cuban economist that the country needs a AA program, because blacks, 50 years after the “revolution,” remain at the bottom of every indicator in Cuban society …
http://aapf.org/2011/05/black-economist-says-cuba-needs-affirmative-action/
Michael Osborne
March 6, 2012 at 14:49 pm
Thanks for confirming my views Michael.
“There is an increasing focus on race & identity in Cuba, from both within and outside the island.”
“In the 2002 census, the proportions were reversed, which any one walking down any street in Cuba will find absurd – this came about because the Cuban government allowed for self-identification, something no longer accepted internationally, as among UN demographers.”
http://afrocubaweb.com/raceident.htm
“An economist who has written previously on race, he also attacked black Cubans who criticize the revolution as racist, saying they have embraced a U.S. strategy for sparking a “political confrontation” that would change the island’s regime.”
So as global capitalism increasingly gain dominance – so “identity politics” and racialism as a ideology for creating division increases proportionally.
Luckily nobody has started counting out loud how “Jews” remain “at the top of every indicator” in most capitalist countries … to do so would no doubt be very racist and antisemitic.
‘Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
March 6, 2012 at 6:10 am
Dmwangi
March 5, 2012 at 21:43 pm
LOL Stupid Guy,
Show, if you can, where I asserted whatever you say I did!
Also show where you get this from “simultaneously assuring us that you know, just know, that judicial supremacy is correct”.
I will stand on my view that in our democracy, our Constitution is supreme.’
Catamite,
It seems PdV has pounded/slammed/banged all the sense out of you.
You’re asserting with ‘certitude’ that the Constitution is supreme so I guess under your rubric of skepticism, you’re a fundamentalist.
Done now engaging the helpless. If you have anything to add you can shout it to me from the minibus. I’ll be the one doing 160 in my M3 (unless I’m driving the 911 Turbo I just bought) pondering whether economics is useful or if I should have studied post-modern critical gender queer studies and become a skeptic like Maggs.
@ Dmwangi
“I’ll be the one doing 160 in my M3 (unless I’m driving the 911 Turbo I just bought)”
Funny you should mention this, because I took delivery last week of pre-owned Maserati 345. On Saturday, I reached 207 km/h on a straight stretch of the N7 near Clanwilliam.
WDYS?
Not all that familiar with Maseratis but sounds like fun. We should meet up for some rally action next time I’m in Kaap.
Dmwangi says:
March 6, 2012 at 15:54 pm
Haibo Dm,
“… you can shout it to me from the minibus.”
I don’t do the minibus thing.
I’m the oke pushing the wheelbarrow for your gardener who is busy with “household chores” (known in some circles as “911 turbo”) while you’re driving your M3.
Better check it out, he’s quite a crow that oke – sowing more seeds that you would approve.
“(known in some circles as “911 turbo”)”
Yoh!
Dmwangi
March 6, 2012 at 15:54 pm
Hey Dm,
I presume that you’re unable to support to silly assertions which you made.
Again!
p.s. Dworky is better than Duracell – Eveready at the invitation to “meet up for some rally action”!
So perhaps this is a good time to abandon the ANC gravy train. Now that world capitalist domination has made a fucking mockery of everything that used to be considered moral – as non-negotiable things we used to believe in like honesty, integrity, merit, hard work, patriotism, nonracialism, national identity and the ideal of basic human rights.
“A number of things suggest it may be too late to halt the downward spiral.”
XOLELA MANGCU : Expelling Malema won’t fix the real problem
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=166667
“Fast-forward to ANC deputy president Kgalema Motlanthe ’s speech at the University of SA a few weeks ago. He spoke in similar terms about a culture of “material acquisitiveness that has enveloped the outlook of society — including some of us in the ANC today”. He argued that the ANC will have to renew itself by re-emphasising its traditions and core values and by “preventing its quintessence from being corroded by sins of incumbency that have plagued post colonial liberation movements elsewhere before “.”
“The judiciary is not immune from public scrutiny and its independence should never be elevated above the other branches of government which are democratically elected by the people and are accountable to the people.”
We have generally held Judge Davis in extremely high regard. But our report suggests not that the judge was misinformed and amateurish but rather that – regrettably, on this occasion – he may have crossed the line by being opinionated, condescending and careless of proper procedure. And that he might have been persuaded to enter the arena to favour a lawyer he was eager to please. – Ed.
http://www.noseweek.co.za/article.php?current_article=2690
If the related piece is anything to go by, Noseweek seems to have stumbled on something rather disturbing!
http://www.noseweek.co.za/article.php?current_article=2671
BTW
Today Malema, Manyi and their fellow racist Buppies will see what “democratic support” looks like.
Vavi: Why we are marching
“Despite the gains since 1994, the working class continues to reel under the pressure of neoliberalism and the legacy of apartheid/colonialism. Poverty, unemployment and inequality are the three challenges facing the working class.
We recognise the major advances our country has registered under the ANC. This includes delivery of basic needs, which has meant millions having access to housing, water, electricity etc.
Most of these gains have been undermined by the slow pace of transformation and the rampant commodification pursued by privatisation and other neoliberal programmes including the user-pay principle.”
http://www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/vavi-why-we-are-marching-1.1250443