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	<title>Comments on: Apology to President Zuma</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-23016</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-23016</guid>
		<description>&quot;It is a good rule in life never to apologise. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.’ – PG Woodhouse (1881-1975)&quot;

(From De Rebus, December 2009)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It is a good rule in life never to apologise. The right sort of people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean advantage of them.’ – PG Woodhouse (1881-1975)&#8221;</p>
<p>(From De Rebus, December 2009)</p>
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		<title>By: Maggs Naidu</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22938</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggs Naidu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22938</guid>
		<description>@ Mayimele - I understood your post generally as you have explained it.

I agree that if the ANC are at all interested in &quot;neutralising&quot; Pierre that may well be a route that will be adopted.

However I don&#039;t think Pierre will be that kind of target because, while he does not appear to be supportive of the ANC, he displays brinkmanship rather than partisanship and he generally relies on our constitution to make his voice of dissension heard.

I shall refrain from expressing a view of Prof Pityane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mayimele &#8211; I understood your post generally as you have explained it.</p>
<p>I agree that if the ANC are at all interested in &#8220;neutralising&#8221; Pierre that may well be a route that will be adopted.</p>
<p>However I don&#8217;t think Pierre will be that kind of target because, while he does not appear to be supportive of the ANC, he displays brinkmanship rather than partisanship and he generally relies on our constitution to make his voice of dissension heard.</p>
<p>I shall refrain from expressing a view of Prof Pityane.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman Clemo</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22924</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Clemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22924</guid>
		<description>The SA  Constitution means nothing to 
the ruthless Bolshevists of the  SA government and the  ANC/SACP/COSATU Alliance

Excerpt :

BOLSHEVISM
The Enemy of Political and Industrial Democracy
BY
JOHN SPARGO

CHAPTER VI
THE BOLSHEVIK WAR AGAINST DEMOCRACY

No sympathizer with Russia—certainly no Socialist—can fail to wish that this indulgent criticism were true. Its acceptance would lighten the darkest chapter in Russian history, and, at the same time, remove from the great international Socialist movement a shameful reproach. But the facts are incompatible with such a theory. Instead of being fanatical idealists, incapable of compromises and adjustments, the Bolsheviki have, from the very beginning, been loudly scornful of rigid and unbending idealism; have made numerous compromises, alliances, and “political deals,” and have repeatedly shifted their ground in accordance with political expediency. They have been consistently loyal to no aim save one—the control of power. They have been opportunists of the most extreme type. There is not a single Socialist or democratic principle which they have not abandoned when it served, their political ends; not a single instrument, principle, or device of autocratic despotism which they have not used when by so doing they could gain power. For the motto of Bolshevism we might well paraphrase the well-known line of Horace, and make it read, “Get power, honestly, if you can, if not—somehow or other.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SA  Constitution means nothing to<br />
the ruthless Bolshevists of the  SA government and the  ANC/SACP/COSATU Alliance</p>
<p>Excerpt :</p>
<p>BOLSHEVISM<br />
The Enemy of Political and Industrial Democracy<br />
BY<br />
JOHN SPARGO</p>
<p>CHAPTER VI<br />
THE BOLSHEVIK WAR AGAINST DEMOCRACY</p>
<p>No sympathizer with Russia—certainly no Socialist—can fail to wish that this indulgent criticism were true. Its acceptance would lighten the darkest chapter in Russian history, and, at the same time, remove from the great international Socialist movement a shameful reproach. But the facts are incompatible with such a theory. Instead of being fanatical idealists, incapable of compromises and adjustments, the Bolsheviki have, from the very beginning, been loudly scornful of rigid and unbending idealism; have made numerous compromises, alliances, and “political deals,” and have repeatedly shifted their ground in accordance with political expediency. They have been consistently loyal to no aim save one—the control of power. They have been opportunists of the most extreme type. There is not a single Socialist or democratic principle which they have not abandoned when it served, their political ends; not a single instrument, principle, or device of autocratic despotism which they have not used when by so doing they could gain power. For the motto of Bolshevism we might well paraphrase the well-known line of Horace, and make it read, “Get power, honestly, if you can, if not—somehow or other.”</p>
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		<title>By: mayimele</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22923</link>
		<dc:creator>mayimele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 05:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22923</guid>
		<description>Maggs, by asserting that the ruling party is likely to accuse PdV of being a legal advisor to DA I am not giving a political or legal opinion on possible grounds upon which the ruling party can challenge PdV&#039;s criticism of its actions, I am merely guessing what their likely reaction could be based on how they dealt with similar situations before that involve people occupying similar positions as PdV&#039;s.

So this statement was not meant to invite scrutiny on its correctness or wrongness. I guess it is still as a result of being confused by my use of evening school English of which I offer my apology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maggs, by asserting that the ruling party is likely to accuse PdV of being a legal advisor to DA I am not giving a political or legal opinion on possible grounds upon which the ruling party can challenge PdV&#8217;s criticism of its actions, I am merely guessing what their likely reaction could be based on how they dealt with similar situations before that involve people occupying similar positions as PdV&#8217;s.</p>
<p>So this statement was not meant to invite scrutiny on its correctness or wrongness. I guess it is still as a result of being confused by my use of evening school English of which I offer my apology.</p>
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		<title>By: mayimele</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22922</link>
		<dc:creator>mayimele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 04:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22922</guid>
		<description>Thank you Herman and Maggs for your responses. So both of you are confused by my post, with Herman topping the list as the most confused than Maggs. Ok, this can only means there is indeed something wrong with my post than with you guys. May be Herman is correct that I was in a rush when I penned it. Sorry therefore for confusing you with my evening school English. Let me try to clarify this issue in this way. 
My post follows Muscle’s statement that “I hope Zuma does not chuck a defamation case at you, something he has a habit of doing”.
Based on this statement, I say that if JZ can take the legal route - opening a defamation case against PdV – that for me will be a lesser reaction or punishment to PdV which will be acceptable to me. Acceptable because it will be rational. I further state that the worse option which I fear for it being irrational and common to the ruling party in dealing with dissenting voices will be, as Maggs correctly captures it, for the Luthuli House to send its alliance youth leagues to attack PdV on the irrational grounds that he is abusing his position in the university by offering legal advice to the DA to, inter alia, pursue the case against the dropping of the JZ case and the appointment of Simelane as NDPP. This is what they did to Professor Barney Pityane and for me it was an irrational move. So, I am not in nay way alleging that PdV is a legal advisor to the DA; for even if he was giving them legal advice it would be within his rights to do so.
I just hope I have clarified the issue. May be what I could have done in my initial post was to quote the Muscle’s statement above before making my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Herman and Maggs for your responses. So both of you are confused by my post, with Herman topping the list as the most confused than Maggs. Ok, this can only means there is indeed something wrong with my post than with you guys. May be Herman is correct that I was in a rush when I penned it. Sorry therefore for confusing you with my evening school English. Let me try to clarify this issue in this way.<br />
My post follows Muscle’s statement that “I hope Zuma does not chuck a defamation case at you, something he has a habit of doing”.<br />
Based on this statement, I say that if JZ can take the legal route &#8211; opening a defamation case against PdV – that for me will be a lesser reaction or punishment to PdV which will be acceptable to me. Acceptable because it will be rational. I further state that the worse option which I fear for it being irrational and common to the ruling party in dealing with dissenting voices will be, as Maggs correctly captures it, for the Luthuli House to send its alliance youth leagues to attack PdV on the irrational grounds that he is abusing his position in the university by offering legal advice to the DA to, inter alia, pursue the case against the dropping of the JZ case and the appointment of Simelane as NDPP. This is what they did to Professor Barney Pityane and for me it was an irrational move. So, I am not in nay way alleging that PdV is a legal advisor to the DA; for even if he was giving them legal advice it would be within his rights to do so.<br />
I just hope I have clarified the issue. May be what I could have done in my initial post was to quote the Muscle’s statement above before making my point.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggs Naidu</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22917</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggs Naidu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 13:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22917</guid>
		<description>Herman Lategan says:
December 6, 2009 at 13:34 pm

I understood Mayimele as suggesting that the ANC is likely to release its &quot;dogs of war&quot; on Pierre because Pierre&#039;s rather strong criticism of Simelane and that the excuse to justify the attack would be to accuse Pierre of being a legal advisor to the DA.

I think Mayimele is wrong.

There may well be some who will loudly challenge Pierre&#039;s criticisms, but a serious assault is unlikely in my view.

That&#039;s because, again as I read it, Pierre has not used any public forum to advance the interests of any political party or grouping and he has not tied his criticisms to any particular campaign, nor has he nailed his colours to any particular mast, notwithstanding the sometimes &quot;intemperate language&quot;.

So far as I see it, Pierre&#039;s challenges are referenced against the Constitution - so the labels of counterrevolutionary, reactionary, racist, right winger and and and, will reflect hollow minds rather than stick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Herman Lategan says:<br />
December 6, 2009 at 13:34 pm</p>
<p>I understood Mayimele as suggesting that the ANC is likely to release its &#8220;dogs of war&#8221; on Pierre because Pierre&#8217;s rather strong criticism of Simelane and that the excuse to justify the attack would be to accuse Pierre of being a legal advisor to the DA.</p>
<p>I think Mayimele is wrong.</p>
<p>There may well be some who will loudly challenge Pierre&#8217;s criticisms, but a serious assault is unlikely in my view.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s because, again as I read it, Pierre has not used any public forum to advance the interests of any political party or grouping and he has not tied his criticisms to any particular campaign, nor has he nailed his colours to any particular mast, notwithstanding the sometimes &#8220;intemperate language&#8221;.</p>
<p>So far as I see it, Pierre&#8217;s challenges are referenced against the Constitution &#8211; so the labels of counterrevolutionary, reactionary, racist, right winger and and and, will reflect hollow minds rather than stick.</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Lategan</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22916</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Lategan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22916</guid>
		<description>@ mayimele: you must have been in quite a hurry when you wrote that post (the one under discussion), as on re-reading it, I am now even more confused than before. 

It&#039;s a bit vague and clumsy quite frankly and leaves itself open to various interpretations, I&#039;m afraid. 

@ Mikhail: As for the illustrious Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder, one can&#039;t help but giggle. He is certainly a send-up like Evita Bezuidenhout, because his comments are even more dystopic and crazy than Artaud&#039;s Theatre of the Absurd and Cruelty. 

With a surname like Fassbinder, he should rather call himself Petra von Kant, as in The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, by Rainer Werner Maria Fassbinder. Because with his line of thinking, albeit tongue-firmly-in-cheek, there WILL be many bitter tears. 

I once new a person like that in the Eighties. He lived on curried lentils and dust and never washed under his arms. 

On a recent trip to Valkenberg I saw that same man, now an inmate, staring hopelessly into the distance. His name was also Mikhali. 

Strange that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ mayimele: you must have been in quite a hurry when you wrote that post (the one under discussion), as on re-reading it, I am now even more confused than before. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit vague and clumsy quite frankly and leaves itself open to various interpretations, I&#8217;m afraid. </p>
<p>@ Mikhail: As for the illustrious Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder, one can&#8217;t help but giggle. He is certainly a send-up like Evita Bezuidenhout, because his comments are even more dystopic and crazy than Artaud&#8217;s Theatre of the Absurd and Cruelty. </p>
<p>With a surname like Fassbinder, he should rather call himself Petra von Kant, as in The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, by Rainer Werner Maria Fassbinder. Because with his line of thinking, albeit tongue-firmly-in-cheek, there WILL be many bitter tears. </p>
<p>I once new a person like that in the Eighties. He lived on curried lentils and dust and never washed under his arms. </p>
<p>On a recent trip to Valkenberg I saw that same man, now an inmate, staring hopelessly into the distance. His name was also Mikhali. </p>
<p>Strange that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mayimele</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22908</link>
		<dc:creator>mayimele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 18:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22908</guid>
		<description>Hi Mr Herman Lategang! Thank you for your response. May I kindly ask you to re-read my post together with that of Muscle, and see if your understanding of the message contained therein is correct? 
&amp;*&amp;*&amp;
Now that you have had a second look at it (as I have no reason to doubt you did) do you still stand by your allegation that I accused PdV of being a DA legal adviser and therefore the contents of your post above?

Looking forward to your honest answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mr Herman Lategang! Thank you for your response. May I kindly ask you to re-read my post together with that of Muscle, and see if your understanding of the message contained therein is correct?<br />
&amp;*&amp;*&amp;<br />
Now that you have had a second look at it (as I have no reason to doubt you did) do you still stand by your allegation that I accused PdV of being a DA legal adviser and therefore the contents of your post above?</p>
<p>Looking forward to your honest answer.</p>
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		<title>By: TLS</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22901</link>
		<dc:creator>TLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22901</guid>
		<description>Too many comments and far too long.

If the shoe fits, wear it.

I don&#039;t see why we cannot call any president names. Silvio Berlusconi surely behaves like a gangster, or in his native tongue, a mafioso. 

The South African president needs to be aware that people - some of whom voted him into power - are inclined to apply the appellation &quot;gangster&quot; when refering to him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too many comments and far too long.</p>
<p>If the shoe fits, wear it.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see why we cannot call any president names. Silvio Berlusconi surely behaves like a gangster, or in his native tongue, a mafioso. </p>
<p>The South African president needs to be aware that people &#8211; some of whom voted him into power &#8211; are inclined to apply the appellation &#8220;gangster&#8221; when refering to him.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggs Naidu</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/apology-to-president-zuma/#comment-22899</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggs Naidu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1743#comment-22899</guid>
		<description>Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
December 5, 2009 at 7:09 am

&quot;If you do not quite grasp this, Maggs will explain&quot;

Sorry Dworky,

Can&#039;t help with that one.

More so since the architect of that strategy, is somewhere in the world, fighting back the fight back thingy.

I rather prefer &quot;Stop Zuma&quot; vs &quot;mshini wam&quot;.

On the subject of big guns, does the Taiwan consignment come pre knotted or is it specially moulded to suit you?

I&#039;m kinda wondering how it get &quot;deployed&quot;, considering your experience of having been all tied up during your struggle years.

p.s. How are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:<br />
December 5, 2009 at 7:09 am</p>
<p>&#8220;If you do not quite grasp this, Maggs will explain&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry Dworky,</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t help with that one.</p>
<p>More so since the architect of that strategy, is somewhere in the world, fighting back the fight back thingy.</p>
<p>I rather prefer &#8220;Stop Zuma&#8221; vs &#8220;mshini wam&#8221;.</p>
<p>On the subject of big guns, does the Taiwan consignment come pre knotted or is it specially moulded to suit you?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m kinda wondering how it get &#8220;deployed&#8221;, considering your experience of having been all tied up during your struggle years.</p>
<p>p.s. How are you?</p>
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