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	<title>Comments on: Calling the Magistrates Comission</title>
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	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Mpho</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5113</link>
		<dc:creator>Mpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes Thomas, the accused has a right to appeal.  Also the Constitutional prohibition on a person with a sentence in excess of 1 year not being able to become a member of the NA, from which body of people the President is selected, does not kick in if the conviction or sentence is under appeal.  So Zuma could be convicted and sentenced and still elected President, from where he surely would be able to grant himself a Presidential Pardon.  Or am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Thomas, the accused has a right to appeal.  Also the Constitutional prohibition on a person with a sentence in excess of 1 year not being able to become a member of the NA, from which body of people the President is selected, does not kick in if the conviction or sentence is under appeal.  So Zuma could be convicted and sentenced and still elected President, from where he surely would be able to grant himself a Presidential Pardon.  Or am I missing something?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5106</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5106</guid>
		<description>Peter - I think the pseudo in the earlier post (that sounded like lindelani) was spelt anonymous (without the -e!). Lindelani has a problem with his name being published on &#039;Google&#039;, and therefore tries some other identities from time to time. Once, he even used mine exactly. Anyway. I agree with you in all respects. On the following remark, &quot;today was some women’s league spokesperson&quot;, just the following: You know, the reason why so many women are after him (and supporting him) since the rape saga, is because he is &quot;Mthontho-we-Siswe&quot; (pun intended).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter &#8211; I think the pseudo in the earlier post (that sounded like lindelani) was spelt anonymous (without the -e!). Lindelani has a problem with his name being published on &#8216;Google&#8217;, and therefore tries some other identities from time to time. Once, he even used mine exactly. Anyway. I agree with you in all respects. On the following remark, &#8220;today was some women’s league spokesperson&#8221;, just the following: You know, the reason why so many women are after him (and supporting him) since the rape saga, is because he is &#8220;Mthontho-we-Siswe&#8221; (pun intended).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5103</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5103</guid>
		<description>Mouse - there was a comment in an earlier thread that sounded a lot more like lindelani than you?

Driving today I again had to endure this ongoing clarion call that Zuma&#039;s case must be dropped - because it was politically motivated and put together, it must be dealt with politically (whatever this actually means)  I have heard this drivell parroted by any number of &quot;new&quot; ANC mouthpieces over the last few days, today was some women&#039;s league spokesperson.  Justice Tshabalala was also interviewed and very slowly explained that judges need to weigh the facts against the law, and cannot decide cases based on the decibels of the toyi toyi&#039;ing going on outside the court.

Snuki also seems to have flipped neatly into Zuma mode, and suddenly the news is filled with this drop the case madness - today&#039;s demo had 500 poeple, but was nonetheless the first item.  I also see things like Blade Nzimande getting invited to discussions on all sorts of matters with no justification whatsoever - I mean, the SACP would get less votes than the Soccer Party in this country, why must their leader be given so much airtime?  The SABC is showing some worrying tendencies.......

However, I believe that our Judiciary and state is going to stand firm and Zuma will stand trial.  I also believe that Zuma will be able to drag his trial easily beyond the next election date, but that the ANC will suffer badly at the polls and will be unable to enact the legislation they need to dodge his prosecution (the Italian Berlesconi option).  Best case is that the evidence that emerges in the trial is so damming that Zuma will step down and an able replacement will be appointed.    I would be interested in the future expected scenarios from the legal eagles on this forum - altho even a day can be a long time in politics....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mouse &#8211; there was a comment in an earlier thread that sounded a lot more like lindelani than you?</p>
<p>Driving today I again had to endure this ongoing clarion call that Zuma&#8217;s case must be dropped &#8211; because it was politically motivated and put together, it must be dealt with politically (whatever this actually means)  I have heard this drivell parroted by any number of &#8220;new&#8221; ANC mouthpieces over the last few days, today was some women&#8217;s league spokesperson.  Justice Tshabalala was also interviewed and very slowly explained that judges need to weigh the facts against the law, and cannot decide cases based on the decibels of the toyi toyi&#8217;ing going on outside the court.</p>
<p>Snuki also seems to have flipped neatly into Zuma mode, and suddenly the news is filled with this drop the case madness &#8211; today&#8217;s demo had 500 poeple, but was nonetheless the first item.  I also see things like Blade Nzimande getting invited to discussions on all sorts of matters with no justification whatsoever &#8211; I mean, the SACP would get less votes than the Soccer Party in this country, why must their leader be given so much airtime?  The SABC is showing some worrying tendencies&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>However, I believe that our Judiciary and state is going to stand firm and Zuma will stand trial.  I also believe that Zuma will be able to drag his trial easily beyond the next election date, but that the ANC will suffer badly at the polls and will be unable to enact the legislation they need to dodge his prosecution (the Italian Berlesconi option).  Best case is that the evidence that emerges in the trial is so damming that Zuma will step down and an able replacement will be appointed.    I would be interested in the future expected scenarios from the legal eagles on this forum &#8211; altho even a day can be a long time in politics&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Samaita</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5101</link>
		<dc:creator>Samaita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 07:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>T,  Zuma is innocent. They must let him explain his case in court man. Otherwise people will just keep on suspecting false things!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T,  Zuma is innocent. They must let him explain his case in court man. Otherwise people will just keep on suspecting false things!</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5098</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5098</guid>
		<description>Wow what a measure of justice: If the case is controversial (very wide term indeed, but some seem to make much of it) then it should be dropped.

T and Thomas seem to see what they want to see in a single word of wide possible application.

What friends of JZ still are not able to answer is whether Zuma should go to jail if he is guilty. It&#039;s never answered with yes or no, because then the next logical step would not be pleasurable for them. No instead it is answered by how his rights were violated or that he is innocent, not answering the question.

How can we have a logical debate if the mere possibility of him being guilty and of being prosecuted for that guilt (if true), is completely off the table?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow what a measure of justice: If the case is controversial (very wide term indeed, but some seem to make much of it) then it should be dropped.</p>
<p>T and Thomas seem to see what they want to see in a single word of wide possible application.</p>
<p>What friends of JZ still are not able to answer is whether Zuma should go to jail if he is guilty. It&#8217;s never answered with yes or no, because then the next logical step would not be pleasurable for them. No instead it is answered by how his rights were violated or that he is innocent, not answering the question.</p>
<p>How can we have a logical debate if the mere possibility of him being guilty and of being prosecuted for that guilt (if true), is completely off the table?</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5094</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5094</guid>
		<description>“the most controversial criminal trial in the history of South Africa.” Finaly prof you agree to what we&#039;ve been saying all these years. That this case is most controversial. I submitt that it is not moraly right to continue prosetuting Zuma in such a very controversial legal way. I here submitt that Zuma&#039;s case should be dropped. 

Amandla!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“the most controversial criminal trial in the history of South Africa.” Finaly prof you agree to what we&#8217;ve been saying all these years. That this case is most controversial. I submitt that it is not moraly right to continue prosetuting Zuma in such a very controversial legal way. I here submitt that Zuma&#8217;s case should be dropped. </p>
<p>Amandla!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Samaita</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5093</link>
		<dc:creator>Samaita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5093</guid>
		<description>LATEST...Magistrate withdraws....the details of his fights with the Scorpions tell a story...

Thomas, he may not be a friend of JZ.


Magistrate withdraws Zuma bid 
Sapa Published:Sep 05, 2008 

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A Pietermaritzburg magistrate, formerly a member of the Scorpions, has withdrawn his bid to block state prosecutor Billy Downer from taking part in the case against ANC president Jacob Zuma.




Magistrate’s bid to block Zuma prosecutor



Zuma fans try force their way into court


Magistrate Ashin Singh, who had yesterday applied to be admitted as an amicus curiae (friend of the court) in the Zuma case, withdrew his application today.


In his papers that he lodged with the court yesterday, he claims: &quot;Unless one of the members of the team of prosecuting counsel is removed from that team, the accused will not be afforded a fair trial. The member of the team of the prosecuting counsel that I refer to is Mr WJ (Billy) Downer SC.&quot;


Singh said in his papers that he wishes to &quot;lead evidence in limine in the matter of the question of whether the Court should not order that Adv WJ Downer SC is interdicted from taking any further part in the criminal trial of State v Zuma and Two Others.&quot;


He withdrew the application as the State filed its notice to oppose it.


The legal battle between Singh and the Scorpions dates back to 1999 when Singh was seconded to the Investigating Directorate for Organised Crime and Public Safety in KwaZulu-Natal. The directorate, headed by Chris MacAdam, later formed part of the Scorpions.


Singh was subsequently expelled, arrested, charged and prosecuted on 12 counts of defeating or obstructing the course of justice, unauthorised disclosure of information, making a false statement under oath and contravening sections of the Protection of Information Act and the Interception and Monitoring Prohibition Act.


He won a permanent stay of prosecution when the trial magistrate ruled in 2003 that evidence against him had been obtained illegally. 


Singh then launched a private prosecution against former national director of public prosecutions Bulelani Ngcuka, KZN Scorpions head Clifford Marion and other senior officials of the National Prosecuting Authority, including Billy Downer - who prosecuted Schabir Shaik.


On August 4, 2006, Acting Judge Nigel Hollis dismissed Singh’s application, saying in a reserved judgment that Singh had failed to satisfy the necessary legal requirements for launching such a prosecution.


In a case that is currently before the Pietermaritzburg High Court, Singh is claiming R2.87 million from the minister of justice and constitutional development.


His claim is made up of R2.5 million for insult and R370,000 costs to defend himself from prosecution in relation to his being arrested and charged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LATEST&#8230;Magistrate withdraws&#8230;.the details of his fights with the Scorpions tell a story&#8230;</p>
<p>Thomas, he may not be a friend of JZ.</p>
<p>Magistrate withdraws Zuma bid<br />
Sapa Published:Sep 05, 2008 </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Article Tools<br />
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<p>A Pietermaritzburg magistrate, formerly a member of the Scorpions, has withdrawn his bid to block state prosecutor Billy Downer from taking part in the case against ANC president Jacob Zuma.</p>
<p>Magistrate’s bid to block Zuma prosecutor</p>
<p>Zuma fans try force their way into court</p>
<p>Magistrate Ashin Singh, who had yesterday applied to be admitted as an amicus curiae (friend of the court) in the Zuma case, withdrew his application today.</p>
<p>In his papers that he lodged with the court yesterday, he claims: &#8220;Unless one of the members of the team of prosecuting counsel is removed from that team, the accused will not be afforded a fair trial. The member of the team of the prosecuting counsel that I refer to is Mr WJ (Billy) Downer SC.&#8221;</p>
<p>Singh said in his papers that he wishes to &#8220;lead evidence in limine in the matter of the question of whether the Court should not order that Adv WJ Downer SC is interdicted from taking any further part in the criminal trial of State v Zuma and Two Others.&#8221;</p>
<p>He withdrew the application as the State filed its notice to oppose it.</p>
<p>The legal battle between Singh and the Scorpions dates back to 1999 when Singh was seconded to the Investigating Directorate for Organised Crime and Public Safety in KwaZulu-Natal. The directorate, headed by Chris MacAdam, later formed part of the Scorpions.</p>
<p>Singh was subsequently expelled, arrested, charged and prosecuted on 12 counts of defeating or obstructing the course of justice, unauthorised disclosure of information, making a false statement under oath and contravening sections of the Protection of Information Act and the Interception and Monitoring Prohibition Act.</p>
<p>He won a permanent stay of prosecution when the trial magistrate ruled in 2003 that evidence against him had been obtained illegally. </p>
<p>Singh then launched a private prosecution against former national director of public prosecutions Bulelani Ngcuka, KZN Scorpions head Clifford Marion and other senior officials of the National Prosecuting Authority, including Billy Downer &#8211; who prosecuted Schabir Shaik.</p>
<p>On August 4, 2006, Acting Judge Nigel Hollis dismissed Singh’s application, saying in a reserved judgment that Singh had failed to satisfy the necessary legal requirements for launching such a prosecution.</p>
<p>In a case that is currently before the Pietermaritzburg High Court, Singh is claiming R2.87 million from the minister of justice and constitutional development.</p>
<p>His claim is made up of R2.5 million for insult and R370,000 costs to defend himself from prosecution in relation to his being arrested and charged.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5092</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5092</guid>
		<description>Koos - Yes, in one of the lower courts that are not yet so (totally?) independent as the High Courts. That is why I use a psuedonymn. ... Maar, &#039;n donker prentjie inderdaad - ons kry dit daagliks dat mense verhore onnodiglik uitrek omdat hulle nie kans sien vir 15 jaar agter tralies nie (sou jy nie?), en soms word die belang van geregtigheid nie gedien nie omdat somige beskuldigdes en regsgeleerdes in die nuwe konstitusionele bestel met &#039;moord&#039; wegkom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koos &#8211; Yes, in one of the lower courts that are not yet so (totally?) independent as the High Courts. That is why I use a psuedonymn. &#8230; Maar, &#8216;n donker prentjie inderdaad &#8211; ons kry dit daagliks dat mense verhore onnodiglik uitrek omdat hulle nie kans sien vir 15 jaar agter tralies nie (sou jy nie?), en soms word die belang van geregtigheid nie gedien nie omdat somige beskuldigdes en regsgeleerdes in die nuwe konstitusionele bestel met &#8216;moord&#8217; wegkom.</p>
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		<title>By: Sne</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5090</link>
		<dc:creator>Sne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=656#comment-5090</guid>
		<description>Thomas // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:44 am
..............................................................

Someone once asked thess questions on this blog;

Does the ANC not have another person who can be the President instead of Zuma. Why is there a blind following of one man? So far I have not seen an answer to this mindbogging questions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:44 am<br />
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Someone once asked thess questions on this blog;</p>
<p>Does the ANC not have another person who can be the President instead of Zuma. Why is there a blind following of one man? So far I have not seen an answer to this mindbogging questions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: koos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/calling-the-magistrates-comission/#comment-5089</link>
		<dc:creator>koos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>@Anonymouse
Sjoe, wat &#039;n donker prentjie!
I&#039;m new on this blog, not a jurist just a blogger. Try to identify you proff. bloggers. You said : ....hoping he never appears in my court. Does that mean that you are on the bench?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymouse<br />
Sjoe, wat &#8216;n donker prentjie!<br />
I&#8217;m new on this blog, not a jurist just a blogger. Try to identify you proff. bloggers. You said : &#8230;.hoping he never appears in my court. Does that mean that you are on the bench?</p>
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