In our little visdorpie an argument is raging about whether Cape Town is a racist city. The argument was sparked by a report written by Dr Sabie Surtee and Prof Martin Hall of the UCT Development Policy Research Unit, which found a widespread belief amongst black African professionals working in Cape Town that the city is “hostile to black people”.
Premier Helen Zille dismissed this report by stating that it must be judged against the background of a broader ANC propaganda campaign which fuels the “myth” that Cape Town is a racist city hostile to black Africans. It was fanned by a small politically connected black business elite who are unhappy that the DA city and provincial government are preventing them from corruptly benefiting from state tenders – despite being African and ANC-aligned.
She argued that the methodology of the study was flawed because it focused on only a few companies and interviewed only African employees whose feelings and views were not subject to critical scrutiny and verification with reference to the “facts”. While Cape Town has its share of racists (like everywhere else in the country), it was those who stated that Cape Town was a racist city who were themselves racist as they were making pejorative generalisations about a whole city based on the views of a few.
It seems to me the Premier is being somewhat disingenuous.
While she might have a point that the racism narrative is being fueled by the ANC and its cronies who are unhappy that the DA is in charge of the city and the province – depriving the ANC-aligned elite of automatic access to lucrative contracts – this does not address the larger issues regarding the structural racism and dominant culture of white superiority in Cape Town.
It would have been more honest (and politically more astute) for the Premier to engage openly with the report of my colleagues and to recognise that many Africans do feel alienated and marginalised in Cape Town and that this is at least partly because of racism. This is about more than access to tenders or ANC propaganda and goes to the heart of what we mean when we talk about transformation.
The Premier’s response is unfortunate as it dismisses the sincerely expressed feelings of all those Africans interviewed for the report. “You might feel discriminated against and marginalised because you are black,” she seems to say, “but what you feel and experience is not real. Let the madam tell you what you should really feel and how you should really interpret the experiences of racism you have encountered in our city.”
This is familiar territory for everyone who has been at the wrong end of racial discrimination in the new South Africa. Unfortunately many white people, secure in their own white world and uncritical about their own assumptions of “merit” and “fairness”, wrongly believe that racism is by and large a thing of the past and that black people are “too sensitive” or are “imagining” the racism they experience every day. Such individuals do not realise that their world view and experience of reality is shaped by often implicit (but unspoken and unexamined) assumptions about white superiority and black inferiority.
These assumptions remain largely unexamined because they are not seen as part of a specific white dominated culture. In a place like Cape Town still dominated by a white hegemonic culture, only “others” are seen as basing their experience of the world on problematic assumptions. Because the white hegemonic assumptions are so deeply embedded in our city’s culture, they appear normal and natural (“it is just the way life is”) while the experiences of those who do not share the same culture and hence do not rely on the same unspoken assumptions are dismissed as “wrong”. Their experiences are not accepted as true, because it does not accord with the way in which we ourselves experience the world.
When a black person is denied entry to a venue, treated with disrespect at a shop or when a black person complains about being made to feel unwelcome at the workplace, it is assumed that this has nothing to do with racism. Either the black person must be to blame (she was not “properly” dressed, she was “making trouble”, she was being “difficult” or “lazy”), or the insult is dismissed on the basis that it was not based on race but on the idiosyncrasies of the individual who acted badly.
If we really want to engage with deep transformation, we need to be honest about the fact that different people from different races and cultures often experience the world differently. We need to accept than when such a large group of African professionals say that Cape Town is hostile to black people, there is something wrong – even if we cannot easily see this because it does not accord with our own experience. Denying that anything is the matter is deeply insulting and dehumanising. It dismisses the real lived experience of a group of people just because they do not experience the world in the same way as their white counterparts.
Moreover, Zille’s response is particularly insulting as it comes close to dismissing all the black people who complain of racism in Cape Town as dishonest and corrupt. That is called “blaming the victim”.
Surely a more honest response would have been to take the complaints seriously, to admit that there is indeed a problem and to propose ways of addressing the very real concerns of the many black people who have made Cape Town their home. Like an alcoholic who can only begin to manage his illness after admitting to having a drinking problem, Cape Town can only begin to address the problem of structural racism when its leaders admit that there is a problem in the first place.
Merely blaming the ANC – no matter how tempting that might look – just reinforces the same old patterns and do not bring us closer to a solution. Such a solution would require some critical self-reflection on the part of those of us who are not African, perhaps by asking: what have I done to understand the reasons behind the alienation felt by many Africans in Cape Town and what have I done to address this.
I quite agree. I’m white and from Joburg, and the difference in culture between the two cities on race is noticeable, even to a whitey.
Not that there is no racism in Joburg – but when I’m in Cape Town I can feel the segregation and racial difference much more markedly. It’s no coincidence that the Cape Bar is by far the most racially divided (and still the whitest) in the country.
Excellent post Prof.
and this might explain why Judge Hlope is so militant…..
Prof i don’t always agree on many issue discussed on this forum, but i wholeheartedly agree with this article. It’s a post that makes me as an individual to think about a whole lot of issues i often dismiss purely because it does not accord with my feelings and inherent prejudice.
Once again, thanks prof. Hope we all reflect on this daily.
I spent about 5 years managing the transformation processes of a major CT-based financial services company, and I can tell you our success rate at retaining black talent that had moved down from Jozi was almost nil – and they all said they simply could not tolerate the insular, cold attitude of Capetonians. If I may, the problem is not necessarily galloping racism, but a general attitude among Capetonians that is experienced as racism. Mark you: whenever one feels that one is looked down upon because of your skin colour, that is racism, and there’s no shortage of it in this city.
My experience is similar to Duke’s but in reverse. Cape Town is my home, but I spent a couple of years working up in Jhb. My work and social life there were integrated (admittedly the black participants in this were mostly middle class, and thus a tiny minority of the Gauteng black population). I would frequently go out to jazz shows, clubs, restaurants, plays etc with friends of all races.
That was seven years ago. Back in Cape Town I find myself socialising almost exclusively with whites. This is not by choice. I simply don’t have the same opportunities here to meet fellow professionals from other races. Most of the relations I have with black people here are still based on patronage: I pay a domestic worker or a gardener; I employ a craftsman to build an extension to my house or I pay the teller at my local Spar. It’s the structure of Cape Town: the city is still physically divided along racial lines. Yes, there is racism here but there is also the strong unnatural divide that is apartheid’s legacy to Cape Town.
White Capetonians have always liked to boast they are the most liberal South Africans. This is where Zille is coming from – how dare they criticise our liberal credentials? But it is a bit like a king sitting high up on a castle wall, surrounded by ramparts and moats and shouting down at the passersby ‘I’m a very very sociable guy, you know. You should see me party. If only we could have a drink together I’d prove it to you, but you really can’t come in.’
It is a pity that racism is always connected to people or places. My experience of another side of rasicm is conveniently covered as “fair discrimination” and is aimed at the White children of this country. What makes it even worse is the fact that I am referring to children born after 1994.
If a boy, attending the same school as my son, is selected for a sports team because in the constitution of the sports organisation it is set out that transformation must be applied, to him (and me) it is blatant discrimination. They had the same opportunities since Grade 1 (2003), how can the Black boy be advantaged just because of the colour of his skin???
It is time that these kinds of discrimination and nation destruction be addressed from a constitutional point of view and that the playing field be levelled for the children of this country, or …. get rid of the “bill of children’s rights as taught to children in our schools!!!!
Eish Pierre, now you gonna get it!
Where’s Dwork?
Hey Dworky – better tell Pierre that these okes are not racist, they just like “competent” people!
:,)
Three years ago a friend of mine invited then-mayor Zille to a dinner, to address the gripes of Cape Town’s blackfolk. To her credit, the mayor accepted promptly and attended the gathering. She listened, and she responded.
There was a rather open agenda. My friend (let’s call him NB) invited me along. I declined the invitation, telling him that I expected Zille to respond with her stump speech, which would involve blaming the ANC for fueling the impression, and would continue with an attack on the ANC’s hypocrisy in regard to race. I explained that problem was not that she didn’t “get” the gripe, but that she was loyal to a position that required dismissing it. The proceedings at that dinner, as well as yesterday’s article confirmed the tenor of my cynicism.
Correct me if I’m wrong, Pierre, but I seem to recall you weighing in against Solidariteit in a related issue. If memory serves, some entity had produced a report indicating either that Black people were not being incorporated into the corporate workforce at an acceptable rate, or that anti-Black corporate racism was rife. (I think it was the former.) Solidariteit responded by (probably accurately) poking holes in the methodology of the study. You, Pierre (I seem to recall – please tell me if I’ve completely lost it) responded by saying that the methodological gambit missed the point. You went on to make the case that the substance of the complaint required addressing, and was indicated elsewhere.
In the Cape-racism debate, the defense has similarly over-relied on the refuge in methodic accuracy. As if Black people were happily toiling away, until some geeks with clipboards proved that they’re unhappy.
Ja well no fine… I would probably also feel out of it somewhere in the north where I am outnumbered by black South Africans. Same here in the Cape where there are a present relatively, compared to the north, few black faces in a crowd. Ethnocenticity rules, Bru…
Look, if your in Rondebosch and the like and you speak Afrikaans you feel uncomfortable, never mind if you speak Xhosa.
Cape Town is a very clique-based city. The English whites don’t speak to the Afrikaans ones, and the Stellenbosch Afrikaans ones don’t even speak to those from Durbanville, the coloureds are friendly to most but they are also very much a group that band together, and then there are the Xhosas, who in turn hate the foreign blacks from the Congo and elsewhere.
I would like to see stats but I think there is major ‘semi’-gration from whites elsewhere in the country to the Cape. Die groot trek in reverse.
On another note – Die Antwoord in Cape Tooowwwnnn (video). Is that as cross cultural as we are gonna get? Beware, swearing and nudity.
Hmm, interesting post Prof.
Is Cape Town a racist city? I have no idea. I don’t live there.
But what Cape Town is though, is snobbish. Even among the white Afrikaner click, a bunch of snobs! My ex-boyfriend comes from Cape Town and just the way that he (and his family and friends) used to look down on me comming from a rural eastern Free State Ficksburg really pissed me off. Never never had that while living in Johannesburg or Pretoria.
Is it possible the snobbery might be mistaken for racism in some cases by those that are extremely sensitive to discrimination?
My my Prof, getting all huffed up because The Queen of the independent republic of Cape Town ignored your buddies research? Quite honestly It is nothing new. Ask any “binnelander” who dared to spend more than their alloted holiday time in the “great Cape” and they will tell you that there is simply a bunch of toffs in Cape Town that don’t like anyone, regardless of their race, tainting their Cafe’s, cluttering their beaches and drinking their estate reserves. At every level in CApe Town you are treated like you should simply be greatful that they have allowed you to visit. Lets face it there are far more important and more fundamental issues arround race in SA that we should be debating.
First of racism is not a crime like drunken driving, theft or any other defined by the meterial law, it could be katogorised under the crime: “crimen iniuria” so for any lawyer ever having to advise his or her client to report his matter to the police, I say that the competent folks at any charge office across the country will regard anyone’s “feelings” with more or less the same regard and also the state prosecutor who’s job it is to assess the merrits of the case by looking into the police docket with maybe a statement as evidence to prove that: 1. somebody said or done or failed to do something (where there’s a legal obligation to act positively) 2. that these actions or ommisions were unlawful 3. that the accused is guilty 4. that it cause the victim damage (usually fanancial) and 5. that there is a nemesis between the damage and the guilt.
Just to let everyone know how serious a charge “racism” is, it’s ‘n myth it’s ANC propaganda bullshit, trying to scare you of your own thoughts, nobody can take a measuring stick and hold it against you and say this or that person is 80 or 90 percent racist it’s bullshit! The people who advocates these messages of impending doom is more questionable than the man on the street who has to decide whether or not he want’s to pay the ass whipe that wached his car to go into Steers to buy a Wacky Wednesday special for 4 minutes.
I just want to second what a number of posters have already described, CT is horribly ‘cliquey’ I’ve been living here (CT) for some eight years now, having moved from Benoni, and one of the first things that struck me was how unfriendly the people of CT are. I remember when I first came down (and not knowing anyone) tried to make new friends and get into new social groups, and it was amazingly difficult to penetrate established cape town cliques, as a result most of my friends are not from Cape Town. This is a common complaint from people who have just moved to Cape Town, so it certainly isn’t a unique experience.
This general attitude is pervasive and seems to effect strata of social life in CT. As for racism, it is alive and well, if you want no clearer example go to UCT and look at the social groups, in a place where there is huge opportunity to socialize with others from different cultures and backgrounds the social grouping of the students is almost exclusively formed around race, and then beyond that, locale (there are the Milnerton people, The Souther Suburbs people, the PE crowd, the jozi-ites etc).
The racism that exists, is amplified by the insular social habits that pervades Cape Towns social life.
I agree its more snobbery than anything else, actually you have to admire Capetonians, they are so snobbish that the suggestion that they are racists will come as a huge surprise to them.
Capetonians obviously dont feel the need to practise the soft bigotry that you find with Joburg liberals, they are far too confident for that. I rather appreciate that kind of confidence and suggest that us Joburgers would benefit from taking a leaf from their high falutin book, it is certainly a much more honest approach.
Today, it seems that peddling over-generalisations, on the basis of sketchy empirical evidence, is fine providing you’re attacking white people. Even better if you’re attacking white people in Cape Town. Even better if you’re attacking English-speaking white people in Cape Town – clearly the most loathed group in the country. Now that’s ‘substantive’ equality for you.
Bored, its a pity that you are so defensive and see a report tabulating the experiences of Africans in Cape Town as a personal attack on white English speakers. I suspect we will only get past this race thing if we are a bit more self-reflective and not so defensive, if we are prepared to acknowledge and respect the experiences of those who are not like us (i.e in your case not white and English and living in Cape Town). I might be wrong, but it does not seem plausible to me to dismiss the report by referring to the “sketchy empirical evidence” (as the Premier also did). The reason for this is that the report conducted interviews with a substantial number of African professionals who worked in Cape Town. By dismissing the report for its methodology you are saying all these African professionals are either lying or that their experience of racism is wrong – ie. you are telling them that what they experience is not true and that you as a white person actually know better than they themselves whether they experienced racism. This seems extraordinary and quite insulting and could easily be interpreted as a form of white superiority.
Bored says:
November 5, 2009 at 11:04 am
Ja Bored – Pierre relies on sketchy empirical evidence.
Is there reliable empirical evidence to support your contention that English-speaking white people in Cape Town are “clearly the most loathed group in the country”?
Thanks for the response, Pierre. I fully acknowledge and agree with you that the experience of individuals matter – in this case, the experience of some black professionals in some businesses in Cape Town. There must be reasons for their experiences, and we should think long and hard about what those reasons might be, rather than dismiss them out of hand.
What I disagree with is the over-generalised speculation – for that is what it is – that the reason must be that ‘Cape Town is a racist city’, i.e. all/most whites in the city (a large proportion of which are English-speaking) are racists. The report does not justify that conclusion.
As for my defensiveness, forgive me. I hope you understand that it is natural to be defensive when you are told that your group are all/mostly racist snobs, and that you are not really South African.
Bored = Alistair.
I refer to my earlier points and wish to add that while one report is under discussion, this has been the on-the-ground experience of very many people, over a very long time. What is interesting to me is whether a snobbish, cliquey, insular, and generally unfriendly city is being described and experienced as racist, by people who are used to open, chatty and friendly places. and if so, what is the tipping point between the former and the latter, if there is one!!
Pierre couldnt your comments be valid for any other SA City – eg Durban, Jhb or PE and what of the smaller towns and the Sun City racist song debacle? Its everywhere and on both sides of the spectrum. Look at the Zenophobic attacks in Gauteng et al.
Toughen up
Was a similar survey done of white professionals who had moved to Cape Town?
If not, why not?
And if it was, what were those results and how does it compare to the results for black professionals?
(Has anyone ever seen those questions in parliament – sometimes they’re an absolute scream
)
@ Dave Alcock
Your concerns are incidental to the survey under discussion. They do not refute nor support the facts in issue. In this regard, they are almost the same as the response by Hellen Zille; interesting but utterly useless in the discussion of the present topic.
Excellent post
Prof, I just had to put up a quick post about this. I feel somewhat vindicated. I reckon that most of my fellow students at UWC(Particularly those who testified before Adv.Dumisa Nsebenza) will feel the same.
In 2006, UWC law students complained about racism at UWC, in the Law Faculty in particular , of which you were part of. I do not remember you(Prof.) saying anything about that. You kept quiet. Is it because you were afraid to bite the hand that fed you ? In any case ,UWC, the Law Faculty in particular is part of Cape Town. Thus , I really expected you to take a particular position, not to sit on the fence like you did.
Prof, UWC, the Law Faculty in particular, I REPEAT , the Law Faculty is full of racists academics and administrators. I am not saying that other components of UWC are not racists, they are , perhaps more than the law faculty itself. But I have decided to put more emphasis on the Law faculty for I understand it better than the other parts of UWC. This is because of my long relationship with it as a student.
Prof, I strongly believe that the so called lecturers at UWC Law Faculty are not academics as they purport to be, but they are politicians in cognito. Clearly, they are pushing a certain political agenda. You must be blind not to see this.
Prof, I am assuming that you left the UWC Law Faculty because you can see.
As for you “Bored” and many others of your type, I suggest you look for the nearest graveyard and go and hang yourself to death. You are borring me.
Sne:
You being from the Eastern Cape and now working in CT, what has your experience been re this subject?
@ Tatera
I am only speaking for myself here;
From what I have observed, there is a definite mistrust between the different race groups in Cape Town. This has been exacerbated by things like crime and the race of the majority of those who perpetuate it. Apart from that, people of a certain race generally associate themselves with and feel more comfortable in the company of, people of the same race as them. This may be fuelled by cultural differences. For instance, why would I go to watch rugby at Newlands with my white friends instead of football which I enjoy more? However that was an example as I personally love cricket more than any other sport.
It is true that racism may exist in Cape Town but I have been lucky not to experience any thus far. I may have experienced it indirectly but was too naïve to notice or did not even know the person was being racist but I can confirm that I have not observed it thus far. It is equally true that we need to define and know exactly what we mean by racism before we can take a huge paintbrush and label everyone a racist.
For instance, one black person may regard the white person swearing at him/her for not moving quicker at a red robot, for overtaking when it is not safe to do so or for not giving him way when he is about to join N1 or N2 onto the lane one is driving on as racism but I may regard it as just road rage. Like I said, I may be too gullible to notice it.
Boy, oh boy! Ryland Fisher also dipped his toe in this ocean and got hit by a tsunami: http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/rylandfisher/2009/10/25/we-remain-obsessed-with-racism/
“God is going to sort out journalists who do not give enough coverage to the African National Congress in the Western Cape, the party’s provincial leader Membathisi Mdladlana said.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article181928.ece
So blacks and the English holds this measuring stick, well don’t start holding it against me thank you
oh and Mark, congatulations for managing the transformation process down there, heard you done a swell job.
Ah! “That is called “blaming the victim”.”
Like when gun owners are ‘accused’ of allowing their guns to be stolen?
Pretty pathetic really. The only grounds for reproach against gun owners….
and I totally agree with Mr. SNE
@ Friend ????? what are you on about?
Sorry for the sarcasm, Mark, in the light of how the prof interpreted the report of two delegates commisioned by the employment equity programme it seems the contrary is in fact true, the report based on the views of the persons that considers themselves victims. I just cant help but think, since when do we care for victims of a failed tender application for instance? My multimilion rand tender was turned down by a government parastatal, how did this happen? In all other provinces I automatically get awarded a contract because I gave the person who awards same a Mercedes S500 , but in Cape Town they refuse coz I is black, ish I don’t know.
There are real victims in this country, every minute someone gets raped for god sakes.
@ Sne November 5, 2009 at 15:43 pm
My “concerns” are clearly incidental to you! And congratulations on assuming my intentions in asking the questions.
You claim insufficient relevance – isn’t that rather close to what madam Zille is being accused of here?
So does anyone know the answer? Have these results been benchmarked against similar surveys of other sectors and cities?
Prof – commendable article. Thanks for bring this to light. Some white people believe that we live in an equal society where constitutional rights are adhered to.
@ Dave A – thats precisely the point. Is CT really that different to anywhere else in SA where white corporate culture dominates. Lets have some surveys in the other cities. I dont know what the specific comments were by the respondents, maybe some could say “well I have been in Jhb and it was very different”. As Sne says he hasn’t encountered racism in CT – of course maybe he’s just gullible or naive to notice, as he says. Fact is I’ve been to Jhb and encountered cliqueyness snobishness there too – if I were black, perhaps I’d have felt it was becuase of my skin colour. Maybe we’re all to sensitive and so hung up on race when someone looks skeef at us we think its because we are black or white?
@ Dave Alcock November 6, 2009 at 10:03 am
Once again your “contribution” to the topic under discussion is incidental. It does not add nor deduct any value to it. That is my point and you have proven it by your response. What I am asking you to do is to contribute to the topic under discussion instead of procuring a related topic. I do not consider it necessary to entertain you any further than I already have as our discussion is not material to the issue at hand.
Anonymous, thanks for your post. I find it is almost always better to focus on specific incidents of racism or discrimination (thus, to focus on what a specific person said or did) and not to make broad generalisations (no matter how hard that might be sometimes) as this gives one’s allegations more credibility and allows others to engage with you in a reasoned and rational manner without them having the luxury to dismiss you as “playing the race card” or of having “an axe to grind”.
On racism at UWC Law Faculty: The Ntsebeza report (rightly or wrongly) dismissed the allegations of racism against the two lecturers involved leveled at them by students. I happen to have had many run-ins with one of those lecturers and do not agree with that lecturers politics and attitude and have said so often in university structures and to the lecturer personally. But often the perception of racism is not about specific acts (on which the Ntsebeza commission focused), but on a more broader institutional culture, which I spoke about in this Blog and have often spoken about and engaged with in the Faculty when I was part of it – which did not make me very popular with some lecturers who felt it was disloyal not always to “support” fellow lecturers when they are accused of wrongdoing by students. Sometimes this culture, coupled with the inherent power differentials between lecturers (who must mark tests and exams) and students (who do not like to fail if they do badly in said tests and exams), fuels perception of racism. It becomes very difficult to know in each case whether a student is aggrieved because he or she is playing the victim and is trying to escape responsibility for his or her own lack of class attendance and studiousness, whether it is partly based on racial insensitivity of lecturers and a lack of understanding on the part of students about what is expected of them at university, or whether it is out and out naked racism. Sometimes it is a combination of the above and I have learnt not to jump to conclusions (either dismissing charges of racism or immediately endorsing them) without hearing all the facts.
I know it is hard to do, but the only way an institutional culture can be changed is through continuous engagement and critical reflection on that culture and a willingness to challenge that culture with rational arguments and analysis, and a willingness on the part of victims of racial discrimination and others who witness it to stand up against specific acts of discrimination and racism, not only when one’s own immediate self-interest is at play (say when you have failed a test), but also at other times.
@ Sne: November 6, 2009 at 14:12 pm
For the record at this point:
Racism is immoral, harmful, a disgrace, an embarrasment to the nation, an insult at every level (feel free to add your own) and should be stamped out at every possible opportunity. Any report of racism deserves close attention and action.
And it transpires racism isn’t the only problem. We have this clique problem, the class problem, snobbery… Ah yes – all kinds of snobbery.
Skande on Cape Town!! Skande on madam Zille!!!
Now I genuinely don’t know the answers to the questions I have posed, but your attempts at deflecting them seem to indicate you might, and that they are somehow less than flattering. Would that be correct?
PdV wrote: If we really want to engage with deep transformation, we need to be honest
] about the fact that different people from different races and cultures
] often experience the world differently.
Weren’t you previously pushing the line that there are NO different races ?
] Cape Town can only begin to address the problem of structural racism when its
] leaders admit that there is a problem in the first place.
The blankes are leaving, but it takes time. There are even a few left in Zim.
]..solution would require some critical self-reflection..by asking: what have I done
] to understand the reasons behind the alienation felt by many Africans in Cape
] Town and what have I done to address this.
Yes, if your job is PR or massaging peoples self-image, but if you wanted to get the
physical structure to serve human needs, there are other priorities. How many of your
people have a miserable HIV death, compared to uncomfortable black professionals?
–
JMB says: Ethnocenticity rules,
Yes, someone has to state the obvious. Nothing else needed to be written
Kameraad Mhambi says: …Die groot trek in reverse.
Kenia -> N.Rhodesia -> S.Rhodesia -> SA. ->? Robin Island
George Gildenhuys says: …Is it possible the snobbery might be mistaken for racism
What’s the difference apart from PeeCee-ism; or is it that race/gender is
objectively determinable and permanent ?
Sandra says: Capetonians obviously dont feel the need to practise the soft bigotry
] that you find with Joburg liberals, they are far too confident for that.
Wow, that’s saying it. And probably why Maggs Naidu hates them/you.
Maggs Naidu says: English-speaking white people in Cape Town are “clearly the most
] loathed group in the country”?
Does that include the ‘Congolese..etc. mentioned? Perhaps the fact that they can
leave tomorrow and thus don’t need to grovel, causes confidence/arrogance which
provokes jealousy/loathing?
Alistair says:..As for my defensiveness, forgive me. I hope you understand that it
] natural to be defensive when you are told that your group are
] all/mostly racist snobs, and that you are not really South African.
Don’t grovel dude !
CONCLUSION === Of course it’s true that “black professionals” find CT uncomforable.
But like with “white professional” in SA. generally, the market will bid up their
remuneration – due to scarcety. How long will it take to reach the tipping point,
when all the studiply confident blankes have to flee ?
Who’s watching the latest [since last week] “African coup” and charges against
Mark Thatcher story? — Be happy don’t worry !!
PS. Isn’t APARTheid marvelous: creating separate areas, where grandmothers,
foot-ball louts, homosexuals, “black professionals”..can be separate and comfortable?
And racists can have “their own place too” !
Do the multiculturists want to amalgamate all thje “churches” too ?
=== “Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better”.===
What simplisticly false reasoning. It’s better-DOing societies that ARE more equal.
Importantly, the water-flowing analogy is relevant: eg. big remuneration differences
between the well educated and the uneducated provide the motivation/pressure to get
educated. The plebs understand this, even if the leftist elites don’t.
In the context of new-SA, instead of discussing if/why BEE crooks fail in CT, ask
if the western nations will feed you, as your population increases and you transform
to a Haiti-like society. With your failed education system [mainly due to COSATU
teachers, as Jansen revealed] even a non-sub-saharan-african society would fail.
PS. what happened to the African RE-naissance?
My interest is “what drives political correctness”, of which “racism” is only a
sub-topic; of which “SA law/politics” is only a sub-sub-topic. But how’s this for
PeeCee: recently a US military member, Muslim and of Palestinian ancestory and
serving as a psychyatrist for US military patients, shot several fellow US military
people. Within 24 hours the US president had already told the public “don’t over
react inappropriately to this incident”, and the BBC was already broadcasting an
interview with the perp’s uncle about how “mocking jokes of muslim’s wearing baby
diapers for headwear, had disturbed the perp.” So while US & UK international
radio handeled the matter appropriate to the reality that “you can’t hide the
details of such incidents these days”, Germany’s DW didn’t even mention that he
was a Muslim. I’ve been watching the morphing of language, for PeeCee reasons in
anglo societies over recent decades, and noticed that German speaking societies
didn’t seem to follow that trend. How can the German’s be so different? Do their
leaders/DW really keep them ignorant or is it just politeness to pretend that
they don’t know — where babies come from?
Lee Cahill wrote:-
>Oh get over yourself! You bemoaned the fact that there weren’t any “ancient
>writings” in Africa, and I referred you to a web site where you could read about,
>well, ancient African writings.
I’ve analysed and discarded that farce decades ago.
I don’t bemoan the fact that my cat can’t answer the phone for me.
It’s just a genetically determined limitation. He can do a lot of other tasks.
Perhaps you want to claim that the 1st well publicised heart transplant was pioneered
in “africa” too? Thanks for raising this excellent example of why I hate how the
PS-talk of calling negroids “black”,”african”..etc. deliberately confuses.
I’m talking about RACE not colour nor geography. Of course you would claim that the
same gene-pool as that which now inhabits Haitti, originated western civilisation
in Egypt, as many “african americans” do.
===
sirjay jonson wrote:
>I suggest we keep the discussion going along the lines of how we see Democracy, not
>just all our failings, but what is needed to grow the world’s newest Democracy, for
>which many lost their lives to that end.
I.e. lets stay verkramped, and ignore the outside wealth of human knowledge, because
it’s more comfortable to mutually confirm, than look out side. And this is natural,
gien “our” history, and the fact that we’re geographically isolated, and that we’ve
built a proven working tradition over decades, of rebutting any criticism by “If
you don’t like it, why don’t you turn your boat around…”.
> The Afgan so called Democracy is not yet that, not while the war lords rule.
Yes, of course, and not only war lords. BTW can you learn from Zim’s democracy ?
> How does civil society regain the right to participate in Government decisions
>…. and behavior? As intended.
Is that RE-gain like RE-naissance?
Re. “lost their lives to that end”: count the victims of no-crisis-HIV compared to
public-holiday-allocated Sparpeville victims. The infusion of foreign ideas could
purge your incestiously sustained local myths and help y’All face reality.
===
PdV’s obsertavtion is exactly on target re. my above point:-
> the only way an institutional culture can be changed is through continuous
> engagement and critical reflection on that culture and a willingness to challenge
> that culture with rational arguments and analysis,
Yes, but it’s hard work, with often little reward. Sometimes APARTness is more
cost effective.
James P wrote:
] Has anyone asked the workers what they want? –> URL
I won’t bother to fetch what one more SA journalist thinks.
The workers/abusees want gravy/money.
They didn’t even know that they were being abused, untill outside agitators told them that they SHOULD FEEL abused.
Common sense tells that afrikaans rugby-louts would not want to be on bad terms with the cleaners, who they have to see every day in the same [captive] environment?
The same way as the “native workers” would have their private jokes/mockery of the mzungu, amongst themselves.
This whole thread is a stupid farce, except for noting how Prof Jansen dared to expose how COSATU has ruined the future student stream, by destroying the education sysytem.
Jansen is such an honerable but naive man.
For me, the rampant denialism of white Cape Town just proves the point the UCT study, and Pierre, are making.
I join Pierre in rejecting all this rubbish about “statistical representivity.” This is nothing but the so-called “objective” social science of the colonialist, occidental tendency. Truth comes in many forms; we can never dismiss the perceptions of a few professionals. Even casual anecdotes may open a window into profound levels of reality.
On a point of fact: Cape Town is a warm-hearted, open-door City — to everyone but black people.
I know hundreds of whites from Gauteng who are barely in town before being invited to Constantia dinner parties, where their plates are heaped with generous helpings of Belgian endive.
I have heard reports that Newlands neighbours knock ceaselessly on the door of white newcomers, bearing garlands of flowers, bowls of delicious fresh fruits, and lovely Lindt chocolates. (Even offering their childrens’ hands in marriage!)
But, so far as I know, this kind of hospitality is seldom accorded to black people.
Just goes to show.
As a born & bred Capetonian living in an historically white suburb, I find myself increasingly alienated from a certain breed of white Capetonian (with I note a generous sprinkling of colonial-minded white foreigners amongst them). What this clique and others like them represent in terms of political influence is quite frightening.
The DA seems intent on pandering to its largely wealthy white / big business benefactors. The result: numerous new bylaws will ultimately serve to squash cultural diversity and true freedom in the city. Rules, rules, rules and more blinking rules not to mention increased rates, taxes & LEVIES is what will keep this city lily white on a fit in or f* off basis. So long as you can pay your own way and ‘behave’ white you’re welcome to stay in ‘our’ city – then we can turn a blind eye to the colour of your skin and pretend that you’re one of us. And every time it gets a bit wild, Madam Silly will wave her feather duster and ‘clean up’ some more with another levy or new rule.
Here’s hoping it’s just my imagination running away…
Chicken is right.
“Botox” Zill must keep rates, taxes and levies low — just like they are in Johannesburg
Cities not need to raise rates to fund social services.
Central government should rather pay for municipal services by borrowing from the IMF.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
November 11, 2009 at 19:58 pm
“Central government should rather pay for municipal services by borrowing from the IMF”.
And employ competent commercial pilots with at least 15 years flying experience to manage the BRT rollout!
:,)
I see there’s no shortage of hypocrites in this country, but allow me to just ask the person that complained knocking on houses doors in Constantia with presents and cakes, just to find that no one is there: Do you actually, after this, still ofer your children’s hand in marriage? Are you just a sucker for punishment. Just like in India where you get organised marriage and the lobola system in SA, the Afrikaans people has some sort of culture (although I could understand if you disagree) but be it as it may it is this culture that is not universal and not religious that manages to devide. Is racial integration to you to marry a person of another race? Because then there are many non complient racists in the country, maybe you need to take that one out of your filters and let the ones trough, indemnifying them from the racism stamp and then keep all your other filters up, but try relaxing them some over time, you’ll see in the end that when you go back to where you come from, from where you stood and judged in the beginning that you yourself would not have passed any of your own criteria those things you used to measure others, just who do you thing you are is what you should ask yourself at the end of the day.
I want to agree with Pierre, but think certainly the majority of whites (english or afrikaans) have never been forced from their comfort zones. They have access to all resources because of their financial and social status and live in the areas direct to infrastructure. The majority of whites live in relative comfort and do not have to really compete for resources with blacks or coloureds. Then we have a history of dislocation of blacks but especially coloureds and a position where whites are not forced to move out of their comfort positions to accomodate blacks and coloureds. Also nothing is being done structurally to integrate these communities (real integration not mandela rainbow nation mambo jumbo).
So coloureds and blacks end up hating each other merely because they struggle for the same resources both groups are majority poor, live devided and see each other as enemies forgetting that accross the line the majority of white people live in relative comfort have peace and is not prepared in a real way to share the majority of resources.
So yes cape town will continue to be devided unless these communities are integrated and forced to co-exist together in real ways and not superficial.
Just my thoughts
In the 90s the Free Market Foundation put out the theory that ‘independently
governed regions which performed better, would be able to demonstrate their
better system, and hence allow the electorate to become educated by example’.
Like Marxism had 70 years to prove it’s success and Haitti had over 200 years of
independence to show it’s progress after expelling the French colonial exploiters.
So Cape Town and all SA regions must not be allowed to flourish, by escaping the
incompetence and corruption plaguing other regions, lest comparison exposes the
central government.
Related hereto, how does one best spread virtue ? I read a good argument that
increasing troops to Afghanistan could thwart the allies’ goal, and that smaller
more effective decentralised forces which recognise local/tribal loyalties and
interests are needed. In computing, ‘the mythical man month’ analysed how
adding manpower, impeded progress. So, is the potential emergence of
islands of excellence, within the new-SA disastrous education system a
threat of exposure to the COSATU-teachers and other looters?
Probably not, since we are able to ignore or explain away how evil apartheid
SA was the most prosperous region of Sub-saharan-Africa.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
November 11, 2009 at 19:58 pm
“Central government should rather pay for municipal services by borrowing from the IMF”.
Or getting their agreements properly written.
“A bungle on the Cape Town Stadium lease agreement has reduced the annual base rental from R100 000 to R1″ – http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20091124125415802C736524
Maybe these pilots need 25 years flying experience!
The DA Cabinet Report Card is unreliable and its integrity is questionable. We the ANC do not even wanna waste our time on it within our structures because its aims and objectives is to create racially divisions within the ANC and to submerge our movement to apartheid notions that Africans are incompetent and criminals. It is merely targeting African ministers, Judge for yourself!!
This Cabinet Report Card is based on hatred and animosity by Euro-African and African infiltrators (i.e. traitors or spy’s) who initially when the ANC took over in 1994 they remonstrates that an African can’t lead a government. This is how today they come into sight on this notion.
This time we will not be whitewashed and thrashed like our ancestors. Tyrants and traitorous Africans can continue to whinge until they are blue in their faces, we shall not falter this time.
Lets not forget who wrote that report – Martin Hall, I would not trust anything he was involved in.
Guys, you keep on forgetting that the mijority of the people living in Cape Town is the coloureds. I am pretty sure they have a say in it. Plus, I think the reason why blacks feel left out is the mear fact that they are not the mijority like in the other cities. You must also understand that the coloured in Cape Town is very different from the coloureds in other part of the country and thus some black people realy feel left out. Lets face it, Cape Town is different.
@ Capetonian,
You know, I tend to agree with you. Regrettably, it seems to me that if some of the views expressed on this blog are anything to go by, many black South Africans are more interested in domination rather than reconciliation. Unfortunately, that particular object is as wrongheaded as it is understandable. And as you seem to suggest, it could be that the racial make up of Cape Town continues to put paid to the misguided object of black dictatorship.
I would also say this of Capetonians: for all of their faults – and having spent sometime around Capetonians I think it has to be said that they have an exceptionally broad and varied assortment of faults – they are a formiddably critical species. And the ANC found that out to its cost.
Capetonian wrote:
] Guys, you keep on forgetting that the mijority of the people living in
] Cape Town is the coloureds. I am pretty sure they have a say in it.
Yes, I’ve read that they are the majority? But since they’re not very political
it’s un PeeCee to recognise that their wishes should prevail
] Plus, I think the reason why blacks feel left out is the mear fact
] that they are not the mijority like in the other cities. You must also
] understand that the coloured in Cape Town is very different from the
] coloureds in other part of the country and thus some black people
] realy feel left out. Lets face it, Cape Town is different.
Yes, the ‘apartheid’ [avoidance of mixing to achieve the dominance of the bantu]
which came about in CT without design [unless they sneaked it past me without me
noticeing] gives an interesting situation, and I wonder how it will evolve after
the soon-pending Zim-stage of most blankes leaving.
—
Snowman wrote:
] Evita Bezuidenhout pointed out once, in a letter to the Cape Times,
] that if the AIDS deaths trend continued that her (Evita’s) old
] National Party may soon be back in power as the ANC would have allowed
] most of its electorate to die like flies.
I’ve noticed that law-people, and probably drag artists, can’t do maths.
Even if 90% of the population died of HIV, the ANC would still have a
majority, unless the unPeeCee assumption is stated.
two years old but so relevant today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Sc0q1_WkA
One last thing, an object, such as a city cannot have subjective things like feelings of anger, joy or racism, sexism ect. My car cannot be racist even if the manufacturer produced these cars during apartheid for the use of taking people to jail who is out on the streets after 8pm, with all that being said I believe some people’s pet dogs may prove the controrary, fact is a lamp or stove cannot be racist unless the kettle calls the stove, look, an object cannot have subjective feelings fullstop
That is unless the meaning of city here is the people living in a certain area as a collective, also known as generalisation, this generalisation being without any proper research and therefore dismissed as being the kind of BS sensation that an ANC youth league supporter would kill for (literally)
@ Friend
A village, City, Province, Country cannot be racist agreed. Let us wait for the research to tell us if SA was/is a racist country.
Well, brilliant idea. Where have you been all along.
Hi, (judge with your eyes closed) Gwebecimele, I doubt if research will be conducted into such a rather obvious matter, we all know Zimbabwe is not a racist country, sure there is a political party in power that has racist policies in place, which racist policies are straining it’s citizens as a whole, but the country is dead soil without feelings, it only needs water and nutrition (for the vegitation that doesn’t have feelings either).
I’ve been to Mozambique for the holidays, yourself?
@ Friend
Holiday in Mozambique! What were you up to there, digging up landmines?
@ Gwebe and Sne,
Friend said “My car cannot be racist” – that is not true. Well maybe Friend’s car is not racist, but there are racist cars about.
To prove it, check the picture here http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100114042631178C167105.
That car is unashamedly racist.
Not only cars are racist, so too are bakkies.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=ct20000725095519287C630433
http://www.dispatch.co.za/2000/08/28/southafrica/CBUILDER.HTM
@ Friend
I believe Gwebecimele, i.e. judge with one’s eyes closed, does not mean that one is blissfully unaware of the surrounding circumstances or the true facts when one makes the decision or when one passes the judgment. I believe the name, in the context of its use by him and of its meaning, suggests that in passing his judgments or making his decisions, he is very “strict”. That is how I understand it contextually and that is what I think is the meaning that he wants to convey. It should mean, in context, “taking no prisoners” or being very strict as to almost be rigid or inflexible.
Oh, as for your “argument” that Cape Town cannot be racist merely because it is incapable of harbouring subjective things like feelings is completely immature and you should have presented it like one of Dworky’s posts. It would have made it different. But then again, trying to be funny when everyone around you is tackling a serious issue may also betray your tender age or mental disposition.
More pics of the racist car
http://gallery.iol.co.za/v/iolnews/Woman+busted+for+drunk+driving+13_01_2010/
@ Friend
If we do not have to research obvious matters then you and I are on the same page. Yes Zim is just a piece of land.
Even Jan Van Riebeck did not find anyone at the Cape in 1652.
Hope u had gud time in Moz.
Maggs, it was a white, drunk driver who didn’t stop when police saw her talking on her cellphone, maybe she was a racist, I don’t know if they held the racist detector next to her after the incident and got a positive reading.
Sine, the name of the commentator wasn’t at discussion here, I merely pointed out that I got some insight into the language and was rather bragging than complaining. If you could conclude however, that I am immature by siting the the above than you could probably conclude anything from anything. Fact is a bearmug cannot be racist, but the slogan might portay the racist or sexist view of someone who put it there. Main fact is a city, country, medicine cannot be racist only you can be if I said it in a humourous way and it sounded funny then my goal is achieved, it’s easier to swallow then an angry or dull comment, wouldn’t you agree?
@ Sine
“trying to be funny when everyone around you is tackling a serious issue may also betray your tender age or mental disposition.”
Sine, it is just sad that when someone vigorously challenges the racist assumptions of so many contributors to the blog, he is accused of “trying to be funny,” and has his age or mental capacity called into question.
Hey Dworky,
Recruit Friend into your MASFOM thingy.
@ Dworky
Got your attention with that one didn’t I?
Good.
@ Friend
“… racist detector next to her…”
See what I mean?
Thanks Dworky, wouldn’t mind, but what is MASFOM an abbreviation of?
Oh and Maggs, I didn’t open the links before I replied because the two IOL ones just linked to their website, but afterwards read the bakkie one and it is really really bad, but again you will notice that it is the driver who were in the accused bench and not the vehicle.
Sine there is not really a racist detector, it’s just something I made up to deal with this constant confrontation in my own humourous way, works like a charm, it’s a counter confrontation: “you’re a racist?” “yes, lets see my reading on your meter fuck wit” It’s a big joke to me and I suggest you laugh, because if it makes you sad it would defeat the purpose of my little lecture about funny here, not make the user of the meter (that still doesn’t exist) more sad.
Oh and if there were such a device, I’m guessing by your quote there “next to her” that you were pointing out a grammatical error in a sentence about a non existing object. If there was one, how would you hold it? must you blow in it? Because then my response to an accusation would be different.
“A Claremont businesswoman is selling her Main Road pub and restaurant – and says only white buyers need apply.
“The woman, who is black, says she’s been driven to insist on a white buyer by a police inspector who, she claims, told her a black-owned establishment would attract ‘indecent black people’”.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100119131910345C643676
Lets say the public is still in the market for cheap senation and did not dismiss the version of the shebeen queen, even after you have aquired a tertiay eduction and know for a fact that the police do not have any powers to influence the buying or selling of private property or business and buys this story, it doen’t make it true. The only true part may be that your average shebeen may attract less decent people than those going for a movie the mall for instance. Oh and they are more likely to be black too. Face it Maggs, you have been looking for simular artickles lately and the only place that you could find them was on the IOL site, “if you look for the devil…” If you look for racism I assure you, you would find it.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/sandilememela/2010/01/18/white-matrics-are-our-black-future/
It seems as if the Asmal disease is spreading very fast. As much as I agree with some aspects of this article but I think the writer has gone too far and unfairly attacked poor pupils who have been subjected to a flawed education system. His 230 000 include all races and those students from disadvantaged backgrounds. Without libraries,classrooms,creche, pre-school, teachers, books, transport, food, homes and other needs, majority of our kids were doomed to fail.
This writer is spot on to challenge kids from elite families who are attending Private schools but are not achieving equally with their white counteparts.
He is also correct to question the support and participation of elite black parents in their kids education.
Friend says:
January 19, 2010 at 13:33 pm
“Face it Maggs, you have been looking for simular artickles lately and the only place that you could find them was on the IOL site, ‘if you look for the devil…’ If you look for racism I assure you, you would find it”.
Here’s another interesting IOL piece.
“For some residents in Makhaza, Khayelitsha, answering the call of nature means huge embarrassment – they have to relieve themselves in full view of the public because their toilets have no walls”.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100121041134973C841839
Maggs, I noted one of the commentators reminding the readers that there use to be a wall around the shitter and asking where it’s gone, but how that article is relevant in a debate about the amount of racism a city has only an ANC youth league member will be able to argue.
Lili said: “You won’t see this in coloured or white areas. It’s as if blacks don’t contribute to the city. If the council does not respond positively we will make this ungovernable. We’ll destroy council property. Yes, it is breaking the law, but what you see here undermines our democracy.”
http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/ba8ee09462604d39bdc46ce0f999413c/21-01-2010-09-20/Residents_use_blankets_as_toilet_walls
It seems as if we can’t even deliver toilets let alone houses.
“The City of Cape Town stands to earn millions of rands in additional revenue from thousands of homeowners who face skyrocketing rates increases following property valuations that have seen some Cape Town homes increase in value by more than 100 percent.”
punishment for trying to be rich.
Racism will always be there in Africa.
White Cape Townians are just full of it and it makes me mad.
“A Cape Town man has appeared in court for allegedly having sex with his neighbour’s poodle.”
The source says Julies allegedly also told cops that the little dog wanted him to have sex with it.
“He allegedly also said that the dog mustn’t flaunt herself like that to him,” says the source.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=iol1279700444989D122
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/20/racism-leads-to-dc-and-dismissal
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/21/racist-fights-rock-school-again
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100921043006471C544859
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/21/burst-pipe-causes-stink
Jee wizzz. I am a so called “coloured” at the University of Cape Town and people think I am being over sensitive when I make mention that perhaps it is racism that is at play here. Truth is- we all suffer exclusion- the non-whites I mean. UCT is home to the rise of the black elite and yet, even they group together with the other rich blacks and the rich whites hardly ever open their circles to anyone other that a rich white. I have found, it is only when I put on a certain display of braindeadness that I don’t notice the bladdy white superiority. I could go on forever but I feel there are certain few individuals who are trying their utmost to mantain white superiority at the institution and it has it’s trickle down effects- to the point where many of those in charge (lecturers, HOD’s etc) all adhere to this system of racism. I see it this way- I am using this place for my education. Get done with it, get the hell out of there
Ok, so I see that what I said could maybe been seen as classic case of “playing the victim”. To a certain degree this is true, because I have not, as yet, done anything to address my grievances. On the other hand, however, my main problem is with the way this institution is run. Say for example our ethos was rich with the ideology of non-racialism (as opposed to multi- racialism) and serious attempts were being made by top structures to restore a sense of commonality and dignity to a historically divided society- those in charge would, in effect, begin to see things differently and thus act differently. Apart from a few individuals, this place is rife with white bureaucracy, and if this is to remain on its current course no real, lasting change would ever be felt! This is how, generation after generation, we slowly accept the status quo until it has become a daily ritual, manifesting in our thoughts, actions and perceptions. New students need to be aware that, when they enter this university, their education is more than obtaining a degree but it is supposed to equip one with the proper critical faculties and (in the unique South African context) turn the student into a full human being. A human being devoid of inferiority complexes as well as shedding the security of their sense of superiority. That’s all it is really, behaving in a superior way provides nothing but a sense of security to the individual. The rich will, forever, hold on tightly to their privilege and we must slap at their hands until they let go.
Twenty years after Nelson Mandela walked to freedom in Cape Town, the city is about to become one of the last in the world to name a street after the former South African president.
But in the wake of years of infighting, that has already cost one mayor his job, the home of the country’s parliament will not give the 92-year-old anti-apartheid hero a grand city-centre thoroughfare. Nelson Mandela Boulevard will simply replace Eastern Boulevard, a fast three-lane carriageway that descends into the city just after the junction of Settlers’ Way and (Cecil) Rhodes Drive.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/26/cape-town-nelson-mandela-street
[...] DA is told that black professionals feel that Cape Town is a racist city, their leader Helen Zille dismisses it as ANC propaganda. When the residents in the Makhaza area bemoaned having to use toilets without walls and the Human [...]
“a specific white dominated culture. In a place like Cape Town still dominated by a white hegemonic culture”
Gee, Prof.
Obviously, as a man of integrity, you are going to quit your cushy state supported job at UCT so that a black professor can replace you and implement transformation.
It is one thing to write propaganda pieces for President 783′s “do as I say don’t do” party – it is another to take the obvious next step. I am waiting with bated breath.
wow, Pierre likes to voice his opinion quite a bit, must feel special. read a few of his articles, he’s either black or works for the ANC, as he’s view points are ALWAYS against white people.
as for stupid remarks like “white people are trying to maintain white superiority”. OF COURSE THEY ARE, would YOU suddenly quite your job so that someone else can take it, just to be fair? stop being so narrow sighted people, i am white, and i can tell you one thing is for sure, whites don’t give a damn about whites. The rich, black OR White, seek to maintain their own power. this is not about black and white, it’s about the rich taking advantage of the poor under the guise of racial discrimination.
you think people like Malema give a damn about people living in squatter camps? they throw a bit of money their way when elections come and then forget them later again. that’s black people in power, while white rich people hog money to themselves and hire whoever is cheapest, regardless of color.
I lived in Cape Town my whole life. I am still young so didnt really experience serious racism and apartheid. I never thought racism was still rive in the city until I noticed it recently. It was what I call “apartheid in northern suburbs clubs”. Firstly, I go to this club all the time with white and coloured friends and I enjoyed myself each time having no issues with getting in. My colleague (black) invited me to her house warming party (she recently moved to the northern suburbs) and I suggested we go to the said club (Living Room night club Bellville). We got dressed (to impress) and went through to the club. The bouncers let us in but the owner (white oldish lady) stopped us at the door. She allowed my other coloured friend and myself in but when I wanted to pay for my 3 black friends to come in and join us she stopped and openly said “if these 3 are with you you will have to sit downstairs, I am filming an advert upstairs and I told everyone to come dressed hot to get into MY club).
We went in. I was shocked and we spoke about the ladies attitude a bit. But then I started looking upstairs to what the other patrons were wearing. They had on jeans and tops, flat shoes, etc. And my friends and I were dressed in cocktail outfits and massive heels. I realised it was straight racism/apartheid. Me and my black friends were forced to sit downstairs while the coloureds and whites sat upstairs. I was SHOCKED! to say the least. We left soon after coming in. Is the northern suburbs of Cape Town this racist? Or is it specific to the old white generation (owner) that still treat black people like they need to be hidden?
@Mandy; Your judgement is far from fair. You’re judging the entire northern suburb based on one womens decision? firstly they let you in already, so was that racist? of course not. secondly, If they were filming an advert you need to take into consideration that they may have who they want in an add. Be it whatever color, it’s not racist but perhaps your friends did not appeal to the image she wanted for her club. That’s not to say your friends are ugly in any way, and not to say that it was right of her; but most clubs actually discriminate, they all have their images that they sell so it probbaly didn’t have anything to do with your friends skin color. Had that been the case they wouldn’t have let your friends through the door, nevermind come into the club and stay.
People always have one bad experience and nail it down to racism, and then paint everyone with the same brush. So one white is racist and all whites are then racist within the 50 km radius of that racist white. you should also take into consideration that like you said, you are young and therefore you don’t actually experience much with racism. Black people are just as racist as white people, but that’s not to say ALL are racist either. you will always get racist people but this post was all about pointing the finger at white people as a nation, and blaming YOU, not just a few people, for all the troubles in the country. the man who posted this message had already suggested in one post that YOU should be made to pay additional taxes because you are white. would you like to pay double tax? if you don’t work yet trust me YOU WON’T want to pay that tax, and would feel disgusted that anyone should suggest that you should based on the color of your skin.
so you had one bad experience at a club because they were filming. Try going there again with your friends and see what happens when they are not filming, if the same thing occurs then just don’t bother going.
there are clubs that cater for blacks only, with their music and their type of entertaintment, it is absolutely fine for the same to occur with white people, we are different and don’t enjoy the same thing, so if there are clubs out there that are for whites then so be it, right of admission is reserved. It’s not racist, just a business targetting a specific age or race group.