Constitutional Hill

Chief Justice instructs judges to attend Christian leadership money spinner

When Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng was “nominated” as Chief Justice by President Jacob Zuma some of us argued that, while it was perfectly normal for a judge to profess his or her religious views (or to be an atheist for that matter), Justice Mogoeng’s continued involvement (as a lay preacher) in a Church that held views that conflicted directly with the provisions of the Bill of Rights would be inappropriate. Now the Mail & Guardian reports that the Chief Justice has used his position as Chief Justice to try instruct senior members of the judiciary to attend a “leadership conference” held by an American evangelist.

The email sent on his behalf reads as follows:

—————-
From: Moekoa Desmond On Behalf Of Sejosengwe Memme
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:48 PM

To: Judge Mogoeng Mogoeng (Contact); Mpati Lex; Ngoepe Bernard; Mthiyane Khayelihle – Judge; Hlophe J – Judge; Musi Hendrick; Mlambo Dunstan; Leeuw Monica; Kgomo Diale; Sangoni Clement – Judge; Davis Dennis; Patel Chimanlal – Judge; Meer Yasmin

Cc: ‘Khwezi Mabaso'; Ngakantsi Boitumelo; Etsebeth Ilonka; Sheldon Astrin; Van Niekerk Sandra; Lemmetjies Gaynor; Mogotsi Reetsang; Malgas Ncumisa; Martin Heidi Deidre; Bihl Rowena; Raleie Motsholathebe; Morar Devika; Opperman Liezl; Motsepe Caroline; Molapo Emily Motlhatlego; Sejosengwe Memme

Subject: Leadership event with Drs John Maxwell and David Molapo

Honourable Judges President/ Heads of Court

Kindly see the attached invitation for your urgent attention. By the direction of the Chief Justice, Heads of Court/Judges President and their Deputies or the most senior judge in the divisions where there are no Deputy Judges President, are hereby requested to be available for the above-mentioned leadership conference.

It will be appreciated if confirmations for attendance can be submitted to the secretariat by end of business on 07 March 2012.

With kind regards

Memme Sejosengwe (Ms)
Secretariat: Heads of Court Forum
Judicial Court Services, Office of the Chief Justice

The flyer for this event depicts the smarmy faces of several blow-dried evangelicals who would be involved in this “leadership conference” hosted by the Hope Restoration Ministries. The conference cost R650 to attend but one is promised 7 DVD’s and a CD as well as a participants manuel if one attends. The flyer, in true commercial style, states that the “total package value is R2745 and that one will saveR2095 if one made use of this special offer.

Even if this event had nothing to do with the promotion of a particular evangelical Christian world view, it would be entirely inappropriate for the Chief Justice to ask senior judges to attend as it is a private business venture and by “requesting” senior judges to make themselves available for this event the Chief Justice is promoting private business interests.

It is also even more inappropriate in a country like ours where people of diverse religious beliefs serve on the bench, for a Chief Justice to send such a “request” to the leadership of the judiciary. More so because this event is a money-making racket for a set of evangelical Christians. Dr John Maxwell says that one must: “Stay focus[ed] on what God has assigned me to do. Keep my mind on what I am doing,” while the Constitution enjoins judges to stay focused on what the Constitution and the law has assigned them to do.

Imagine a senior judge had sent a similar instruction to attend a Muslim “leadership conference” or one hosted by Richard Dawkins, the avowed atheist. It would rightly have created a storm of protest as it would have signalled that the Chief Justice is attempting to influence members of the judiciary to come around to his way of thinking on religious matters. This is no different.

As judges are enjoined by the Constitution to act impartially and without fear, favour or prejudice and as the Constitution does not require judges to embrace a form of evangelical Christianity in order to do their job and as the Chief Justice is not empowered to use his position as Chief Justice to try and advance a business venture of a commercial enterprise, this email is deeply troubling.

Any judge in South Africa can hold any views about religion that he or she wishes. He or she can be a member of the Catholic Church or a devout attendee of Dutch Reformed Church services, can be an atheist, a Hindu or a Muslim or can believe that there is no god at all. What that judge is not allowed to do is to use his position to promote a commercial venture, one that is being run by a person with a particular view of Christian religion.

At the very least the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) should censure the Chief Justice for abusing his office to advance a business venture and for trying to promote a certain religious view within the judiciary. Section 165 states, inter alia that:

4. No person or organ of state may interfere with the functioning of the courts.

5. Organs of state, through legislative and other measures, must assist and protect the courts to ensure the independence, impartiality, dignity, accessibility and effectiveness of the courts.

To assist and protect the courts to ensure their independence, impartiality and dignity the JSC has a Constitutional duty to take steps to ensure that this abuse of office never happens again. If they do not, there is a danger that the CHief Justice will again use his position to further a specific evangelical business venture, tarnishing the dignity of the office of the Chief Justice and sending a signal that our judiciary serves not all the people of South Africa but only those who adhere to a specific evangelical Christian view of the world. This would fundamentally erode the independence of the judiciary which is guaranteed not only on formal protections but also by ensuring that the perception does not take hold that members of the judiciary act with a specific religious agenda when it hears cases.

  • Henri

    It’s telling of Mogoeng’s “leadership”, and carriage amongst his [junior] colleagues that the judges all apparently decided ‘ag, fuck him’ and just stayed away :

    “Mogoeng’s spokesperson, Lulama Luti said none of the justices invited had attended the conference, where there was a R650 registration fee that included DVDs of the various speakers.”

  • ozoneblue

    What a load of prejudiced, nonfactual rubbish.

    “Every year Maxwell speaks to Fortune 500 companies, international government leaders, and organizations as diverse as the United States Military Academy at West Point and the National Football League. A New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Business Week best-selling author, Maxwell was one of 25 authors and artists named to Amazon.com’s 10th Anniversary Hall of Fame. Three of his books, The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, Developing the Leader Within You, and The 21 Indispensable Qualities of a Leader have each sold over a million copies.[6]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Maxwell

  • ozoneblue

    “What that judge is not allowed to do is to use his position to promote a commercial venture, one that is being run by a person with a particular view of Christian religion.”

    Really. And do you and your blow-dried hypocritical secular fundamentalist have any evidence as one would imagine from a rational pov to prove that the content of the above leadership workshops are advocating/promoting a evangelical Christian persuasion?

  • ozoneblue

    The hypocrisy/stupidity of socalled “liberals” in the “new” South Africa beyond belief. How I remember the good old days of Apartheid when atheists, Catholics or anybody without links to the DRC were subject to vilification, marginalization and scorn.

  • mikeA

    I am what might be termed by some as a “fundamentalist” Christian (some add the description “right-wing” as a matter of course), and would like to share some thoughts on this matter. I fit squarely within the historical mainstream of Christian belief (of the evangelical variety, although we are not so very distant from Catholics and others on most core issues). I have been part of a charismatic (so-called “happy-clappy”) church, although I currently am a member of an Anglican church.

    I am not automatically a supporter of the Chief Justice (by virtue of his being “one of us”), but prefer to view him on merit.

    The story did disturb me. To “request” attendance does carry some (or much) imperative. Maybe the language was loose, but one would expect a Chief Justice to be precise in his language.

    John Maxwell is a recognized leadership speaker, and the material does not imply heavy Christian “indoctrination” – although the pamphlet is rather vague about the content or aim of the seminar.

    I dislike the marketing-speak involved in the “Total Vackage Value”, as this is just sales hype. I do not believe that a Christian leader should engage in this type of puffery. I dislike the commercialisation that creeps in to Christian circles – money per se is not the problem, but it is wrong to adopt worldly approaches (note that the non-Christian critic is in an interesting position as they would be criticising the church adopting their own approach – although it is valid to point out hypocrisy among Christians).

    The fact of this being a business venture is irrelevant, and not worthy of your comment, Prof. If the guy has something valid to say, and does so within a business framework, so what? Lots of people function like that (who would complain at Al Gore coming to give a series of lectures over here?). The test is whether the content is relevant to the judges concerned, and whether there is value to be had (the cost is not high). Admittedly, there is little to indicate what the content was.

    I feel that the Chief Justice should have “invited” or “suggested” attendance, and shown sensitivty to any who may not be Christians (failure to do so may indicate a problem of mindset as posited in this piece). However, I do not see this as being so sinister. One can’t exclude people from public discourse on the grounds that they hold to a set of Christian beliefs that one dislikes.

  • ozoneblue

    The CV of one of those “blow-dried Evangelicals.”

    “David Molapo – Motivational Speaker, Keynote Speaker and MC – Johannesburg

    In addition to being one of the most sought after Motivational Speakers, David Molapo holds two of South Africa’s most prestigious awards, the Young Achiever of the Year – South Africa Award & Four Outstanding South African’s Awards (FOYSA) and he has appeared in the Who’s Who in South Africa from 1995 to date. He has consulted for the top 100 Companies and his former designations have included being a Non-Executive Director of Dimension Data SA and other major corporations such as South African Airways and Spoornet.

    David Molapo

    Dr David Molapo was born at the height of the apartheid era, but has never allowed the bitterness of the past to dictate his future. “You are no longer a prisoner of your past, but a pioneer of your future”, he often tells those he addresses. He obtained an Associate Degree in Mathematics and Science followed by a B.Sc. in Education, a Master’s Degree in Education and a Doctorate in Religious Education in the USA. He owns two companies and is chairman of four others. To be successful in the Human Resources business, David reckons personal experience and life skills are at the top of the list. You also need all the knowledge and wisdom you can glean from God’s Word. His values are integrity, honesty and fairness, and he believes the keys to success in life is to believe in yourself, grow in confidence, and be tough but tender hearted. An important lesson life has taught him is to always take others up to the top with you.”

    http://www.entertainment-online.co.za/davidmolapo.htm

    I’m deeply disgusted with the shameless bigotry of both the M&G and the author of this blog.

  • Gwebecimele

    Another Board of Inquiry , we can certainly do with another dose of comedy.

    http://www.iol.co.za/mercury/sutcliffe-vows-to-sue-left-right-centre-1.1257092

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    Personally I am not a fan of the so called “Motivational Speakers”, however I do look up to, a carefully selected few individuals. Not even Mandela makes it to my list.

    Needless to say I would easily turn down any invite to such a talk , I am more interested in the walk than the talk.

  • Anonymouse

    I think we are a little too quick and too anxious to criticise the CJ here for having ‘instructed’ “Heads of Court/Judges President and their Deputies or the most senior judge in the divisions where there are no Deputy Judges President” to attend the conference.

    My feeling here is that the e-mail in question actually demonstrates the ‘incompetence’ of the administrative staff member or members who sent it out. Firstly, the sender is not really the sender of the e-mail, as it has reportedly been sent by “Moekoa Desmond On Behalf Of Sejosengwe Memme”, whilst the sender is identified at the botom of the e-mail as
    “Memme Sejosengwe (Ms)
    Secretariat: Heads of Court Forum”

    We do not even know from this what the true position of either “Moekoa Desmond” or Ms “Memme Sejosengwe” is in the so-called ‘Secretariat: Heads of Court Forum”. Now, we all know what the effects of hearsay are – a relayed message will invariably change from person to person in the chain of hearsay. Unless there was a specific ‘instruction’ in writing by the CJ of what is to be contained in the e-mail, we can therefore safely deduct (or at least presume) that there might have been a mistake in the e-mail that had been sent out. Why would one person tasked with the sending of an e-mail task another person to send it. Moreover, if it has been sent on instruction of the CJ, why was he included as an adressee (the first one in fact) rather than a person to whom the e-mail is ‘carbon-copied’ (Cc’d)? In other words – the e-mail is sent to the CJ … “By the direction of the Chief Justice” as indicated in the text. It doesn’t make sense. And then, by the direction of the CJ, the Heads of Court “are hereby requested to be available for the above-mentioned leadership conference”, but they are still left with the choice whether to submit “confirmations for attendance” before or on the 7th of March 2012. The language used in the e-mail is appalling, to say the least. We can therefore not say for certain whether the Heads of Court were ‘invited’, ‘instructed’ or ‘requested’ to avail themselves for attendance, and, as there was a fee to be paid for attendance, the Heads of Court would clearly have had a choice whether to attend or not, unless the Office of the Chief Justice offered to defray the costs of their attendance. I think this whole thing reeks of incompetence by the admin component of the ‘Heads of Court Forum’ to properly relay messages or orders issued by judicial officers – I can personally vouch for various instances where court orders were incorrectly published / relayed.

    Furthermore: What is the “Heads of Court Forum”? Is it a statutory body? Are all ‘Heads of Court’ (including Heads of Court in the Lower Courts) obliged to be part of the Forum? By who (or by which organization) is it funded?

    There are simply too many possibilities for us to conclude that the CJ has abused his position in this regard. I would, however, feel that, if the CJ is the man of integrity that he professes to be, he should immediately release a press statement of what his true intentions were and to tender an apology on behalf of the Heads of Court Forum for the misunderstanding that this comunique could have caused.

  • Henri

    Oh, the esteem of the judiciary these times. See this comment over at Times Live:
    “This is what happens when you appoint a religious nutcase as the Chief Justice. We are not a secular state, we are a cosmopolitan democracy. It doesn’t matter what the religious beliefs of a sitting judge are, they should be irrelevant once they enter a court room.”

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender

    “Imagine a senior judge had sent a similar instruction to attend a Muslim “leadership conference” or one hosted by Richard Dawkins, the avowed atheist.”

    With respect, Pierre, the difference is that the overwhelming majority of our people are Christian. (BTW, Christianity is not, as you atheists would have us believe, a colonial imposition upon Africa. Far from it. There was a large community of Christians in Alexandra, Egypt, early in the First Century. Thank heavens these devout followers of Jesus later burned the appalling library of Pagan “science” that had so long dominated Alexandra.)

  • ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender
    March 15, 2012 at 11:54 am

    I don’t think this kind of secular bigot can have an honest discussion about any aspect of religion. So far what PdV has posted is conjecture and lies.

    “Some examples of what judges would have had to endure if they had attended the “Leadership Conference””

    However he has failed spectacularly to submit EVIDENCE that the content of the Leadership Conference would be of evangelical Christian nature. It is a classical example of attacking the messenger and not the message. It is this kind of intellectual dishonesty/bigotry that is so common amongst the New Atheist types that I (as an atheist myself) reject – just as much as I reject religious fundamentalism.

  • ozoneblue

    Henri
    March 15, 2012 at 11:54 am

    So our Constitution exists in a cultural and moral vacuum?

    Who do you think said this:

    “I have a dream that my four little children will live in a country where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream that one day all of God’s people will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.”

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=167261

  • Brett Nortje

    Anonymouse says:
    March 15, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Well said, Dr Mouse!

    This alleged ‘instruction’ is indicative of nothing other than the general collapse of support systems in every sphere of governance – brought about by ‘transformation’ and affirmative action.

  • Bhagat

    @ozoneblue, @mikeA, @Anonymouse

    I was born in this country, denied opportunities because of my race. I also had to tolerate bigotry from Christian fundamentalists as I am not Christian, nor do I ever want to be one. There was numerous instances of Christian propaganda and indoctrination. For example during apartheid I was asked for my ‘Christian name’ at home affairs and my substandard education (“non-whites” had less resources) did not acknowledge my religion too.

    I believe that this incident is serious enough to warrant his stepping down. It is indicative of his lack of intellect and that he has been so brainwashed that he cannot be objective. What if a case comes forward that pits any of our other religions against Christianity? Does anyone think that this happy clappy can be really be objective.

    Why do Christians believe that they have a monopoly on truth?

    ATTENTION: PROF de VOS

    Can anyone lay a complaint at the JSC?
    Does it have to be a person from the legal fraternity?

    Surely it is time to get rid of this imbecile.

  • Pierre De Vos

    Bhagat, anyone can lay a complaint at the JSC. The draft Code of Conduct drafted by judges states, amongst other things that

    “A judge does not lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge or others”.

    This “Leadership Conference” is a private business venture aimed at selling Dr Maxwell’s books and other marketing products and at making money for the speakers. Moreover it was conducted by individuals with a specific religious agenda which they promote in their appearances where they sell their books and DVD’s to make money. By asking judicial leaders to attend this seminar, the Chief Justice thus promoted a private money-making scheme and used his official title to do so, and in my view was in breach of this draft code, something that might well lead to censure by the JSC if it were to take its responsibility seriously and wanted to comply with its constitutional duty to protect the dignity and impartiality of the judiciary.

  • Cicero Langa

    Thank you for an on-point article which evidences an enlightened loyalty to constitutional democracy.

    Why is it that when religion comes into the equation people discard all objectivity and intelligence? Is it perhaps the black and white (or blue and red) threat in the choice between heaven and hell?

    In our country everyone, no matter their religion or if their religious group finds themselves in a minority or a majority “has the right to have any dispute that can be resolved by the application of law decided in a fair public hearing before a court”.

    If you were NOT Christian, how would you feel if the Chief Justice sends other Justices to find inspiration, leadership or whatever, to something like this, essentially bringing his religious beliefs into the court? Justice is done as it is seen to be done. How would you feel if your opponent in a case before the present Chief Justice after this whole debacle, quotes bible phrases in support of his case? Would it make you feel better if the principles argued was “essentially informed by the same principles regardless of the faith” of the arguer.

    All I can say about the debacle is this: the true sadness lies in how predictable it was that something like this would happen.

  • ozoneblue

    Bhagat
    March 15, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    So the answer to religious intolerance is more religious intolerance. Just like the answer to racism is more racism?

    What were the contributions of these Christian individuals to the struggle?

    Beyers Naude
    Trevor Huddleston
    Desmond Tutu

    I can think of thousands of other Christians who contributed to the Civil Rights movements and to the struggle against Apartheid. How about Dr. Matin Luther King? So we also have to assume Muslims are terrorists – right?

    “It is indicative of his lack of intellect and that he has been so brainwashed that he cannot be objective.”

    But it certainly doesn’t sound like that – not when judged by what Mogoeng said himself.

    “The chief justice said the basic principles of leadership were the same, “irrespective of faith”.

    “I don’t understand what the concern is,” he said.

    As a Christian, he would not feel uncomfortable to attend a leadership conference hosted in a synagogue or a mosque, Justice Mogoeng said, and he had in fact attended a leadership session given by Deepak Chopra (“not a Christian”), and had “a number of his books at home”. ”

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=167443

  • ozoneblue

    Cicero Langa
    March 15, 2012 at 13:03 pm

    “Why is it that when religion comes into the equation people discard all objectivity and intelligence? Is it perhaps the black and white (or blue and red) threat in the choice between heaven and hell?”

    Confused and conflicted pseudo-intellectual bigots like PdV – definitely.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Anonymouse
    March 15, 2012 at 11:53 am

    What’s up Doc?

    “if the CJ is the man of integrity that he professes to be”.

    He isn’t.

    He lied about having spoken to god.

    He lied that he is the “third most powerful man in South Africa”.

    He stabbed the DCJ in the back.

    Even if it was a lowly functionary in his office who sent out that email – it happened in his watch – and whoever sent it believed that it was ok to do that.

    Such nonsense will not happen in the name of someone of the stature and dignity of the DCJ.

    But nice try, Doc!

  • Bhagat

    The bible was used to justify apartheid which was a crime against humanity.
    christianity persecuted and killed millions of people in its name.

    Arguments to keep ANY religious activity out of the judiciary, even if it there is a subtle hint of it. The wall between ‘church’ and state must be made of granite.

    If you don’t like the Prof so much, then why bother posting your bigoted comments here? South Africa is NOT a christian country. It has NO national religion. It is NOT a theocracy. If you don’t like it please move to one.

    It seems like your nostalgic for the days of christian nationalism of the apartheid days. Your arguments make no sense. Please rewrite and leave your religion out of it.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Lol @ M-squared!

    Mogoeng’s spokesperson, Lulama Luti told the newspaper that none of the justices invited had attended the conference.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/03/15/mogoeng-mogoeng-ordered-judges-to-attend-christian-course

    That was “judicial language” for FUCK OFF!

  • Brett Nortje

    Cicero Langa says:
    March 15, 2012 at 13:03 pm

    That is just it: Are we sure the CJ sent this?

    If he did, I am with Bhagat.

    Maggs makes the strongest point though – if one of his underlings sucks up in this fashion what is that office run like? Why is the people’s time spent on things like this? What is next? Tupperware?

  • Pierre De Vos

    Brett, the Chief Justice is quoted as saying:

    “I don’t understand what the concern is,” he said. As a Christian, he would not feel uncomfortable to attend a leadership conference hosted in a synagogue or a mosque, Justice Mogoeng said, and he had in fact attended a leadership session given by Deepak Chopra (“not a Christian”), and had “a number of his books at home”.

    I think that answers your question.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Brett Nortje
    March 15, 2012 at 14:12 pm

    Hey G,

    “That is just it: Are we sure the CJ sent this?”

    In his own words (without any help and guidance from god) :

    “So when I saw this, I just thought: wow, here is an opportunity to expose those colleagues who are willing and able,” Mogoeng was quoted as saying.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    @ Maggs

    Is it safe to say the CJ misjudged his peers, none were willing and able?

  • Cicero Langa

    @OB
    If Beyers Naude, Trevor Huddleston and Desmond Tutu were Chief Justice of the South African Constitutional Court in 2012, they would have had the judicial sense to not send their Judges to a conference such as this.

    They would have had that judicial sense because they would have understood that their religion is just that: theirs. They would have taken into account that people have died for others not to be constrained in the exercise of their own religion. They would have known that the impugned actions may lead to such constraint. They would have understood that their position is seen as the epitome of democracy and a society where people of all religions are treated alike. They would have understood that they were the person who is the Chief gaurdian of all that was fought for.

    But most importantly, they would have known that the wounds caused by apartheid, where boeppens bigots brought their beliefs and values into the public space forcing them on others were still not healed properly. They would have been sensitive to the fact that those wounds easily tear open, and that they were the one person that could never be seen to be picking at the stitches.

  • ozoneblue

    Bhagat
    March 15, 2012 at 13:52 pm

    “South Africa is NOT a christian country. It has NO national religion. It is NOT a theocracy. If you don’t like it please move to one.”

    Well you are wrong on many accounts. South Africans are overwhelmingly Christian (around 80%). There are various other smaller religions, most notably Islam. That is why our Constitution advances freedom of association, freedom of expression and thought. It is about a value system of tolerance and communality, not what one group thinks is the truth.

    Nowhere did the judge imply that South Africa is a “theocracy”. That is another straw man just like the one that PdV posted that the Leadership Conference would asserted (without a shred of evidence) the character of an evangelic Christian gathering because some of the guest speakers are evangelic Christians.

  • ozoneblue

    Cicero Langa
    March 15, 2012 at 14:41 pm

    “But most importantly, they would have known that the wounds caused by apartheid, where boeppens bigots brought their beliefs and values into the public space forcing them on others were still not healed properly”

    Of course to believe such a bullshit revisionist view of history (that is typical of this New Atheist idiocy) you have to assume that 80% of the people in this country are [white] “boepens bigots” and that the Christian fundamentalist Voortrekker with the unusual surname of Sontonga who penned-down “Nkosi Sikele Africa” was one too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nkosi_Sikelel%27_iAfrika

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Gwebecimele
    March 15, 2012 at 14:39 pm

    Hey Gwebs,

    “Is it safe to say the CJ misjudged his peers, none were willing and able?”

    You’re far too generous on behalf of his peers.

    It seems to me that the message was “Don’t come here with that BANTUSTAN tendency. Not here. You can do it somewhere else. Not here. If you’ve got a tendency of undermining JUDGES, even where you work, you are in the wrong place. Here you are in the wrong place.

    … You are a small boy, you can’t do anything”.

    In other words – FUCK OFF!

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    ozoneblue
    March 15, 2012 at 14:42 pm

    Hey OB,

    Bhagat knows nothing. You should tell him to fuck off to India to be with 1.2 billion other coolies and eat bunny chow.

    p.s. Another province also wants my 9 year old son to be captain of the provincial cricket team (they also don’t want a White boy to be captain even though he is very good) – should he accept the challenge of being captain of two provinces?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender

    Maggs, I bow to no one in my fierce commitment to separation on church and state. Even so, I cannot help thinking that the hullaballo around the CJ’s invitation is animated largely by the RACISM of the whitish liberal media.

    WDYS?

    P.S. I have just heard a rumour that “Dr” Maxwell got his PhD in Televangelism from the very same Graduate-School-Specially-Established-To-Impress-White-People from with Dmwangi also graduated. Is that true?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender

    separation “on” church and state = separation “of” church and state.

    Thanks.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
    March 15, 2012 at 15:01 pm

    “You should tell him to fuck off to India to be with 1.2 billion other coolies and eat bunny chow.”

    India. Now there is a progressive religious secular capitalist fascist cluster fuck if you ever wanted to know about one.

  • ozoneblue

    Perhaps PdV & kie wants a cultural revolution. The good old atheist way.

    “Marxist-Leninist ideology was opposed to religion, and people were told to become atheists from the early days of Communist rule. During the Destruction of Four Olds campaign, religious affairs of all types were discouraged by Red Guards, and practitioners persecuted. Temples, churches, mosques, monasteries, and cemeteries were closed down and sometimes converted to other uses, looted, and destroyed.[23] Marxist propaganda depicted Buddhism as superstition, and religion was looked upon as a means of hostile foreign infiltration, as well as an instrument of the ‘ruling class’.[24] Chinese Marxists declared ‘the death of God’, and considered religion a defilement of the Chinese communist vision. Clergy were arrested and sent to camps; many Tibetan Buddhists were forced to participate in the destruction of their monasteries at gunpoint.[24]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

    Not to mention the USSR.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender
    March 15, 2012 at 15:14 pm

    Dworky,

    Dmwangi will rightfully be offended – it’s not just any graduate school, it’s THE graduate school.

    The same one which Dr Idi Amin attended.

    p.s. Is it true that Dr Amin and Dmwangi are father and son?

    p.s. OB – forget all the religious kak. Let’s talk cricket – my 10 year old son is waiting for guidance. Should he be captain of multiple provincial cricket teams to keep out WHITE people?

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
    March 15, 2012 at 16:07 pm

    “p.s. OB – forget all the religious kak. Let’s talk cricket – my 10 year old son is waiting for guidance. Should he be captain of multiple provincial cricket teams to keep out WHITE people?”

    That is good for him. He should learn a good value system that as long as you are the right color it doesn’t really matter how fucking useless you are. Just like his dad.

  • ozoneblue

    “Morality is doing what is right, no matter what you are told? Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right?”

    The little problem with that naively circular argument is of course that religion gives as pretty good guidelines on “what is right”.

    Biologically it “is right” to screw your neighbor over if it is in the best interest of yourself/family/tribe. The fittest survive and all of that Nietzschean Will to Power shite.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    ozoneblue
    March 15, 2012 at 16:45 pm

    Hey OB,

    “as long as you are the right color”

    Too true.

    You must be lonely, sad and feeling ashamed at being WHITE, eh?

    p.s. “Just like his dad” – yeah. My son is the same colour as me.

    Yours? (Does he look like Dmwangi i.e. just like Idi Amin)

  • joeslis

    Maggadur –

    “p.s. Is it true that Dr Amin and Dmwangi are father and son?”

    Is it true that Dmwangi’s real name is Kenny Kunene?

  • Dmwangi

    ‘Is it true that Dmwangi’s real name is Kenny Kunene?’

    Nope but we do seem to share the same views about cars and miscegenation.

    Maggs is just a hater because I’m successful and he’s not; I make a nice living and he’s broke; I went to a top university and he’s functionally illiterate; I have a beautiful, amazing wife and he’s divorced; I’m relatively young and good-looking; he’s old and looks like a tik addict (according to my wife and her friends) and on and on.

    To the issue at hand: somehow I don’t see PdV making these protestations if the CJ had requested judicial members attend a conference on homo-sensitivity. Then he would contrive some kak about the CJ wonderfully promoting the ‘values’ and ‘ideals’ of the Constitution by making the judiciary understand the plight of ‘vulnerable,’ ‘marginalised’ citizens blah, blah, vomit.

    Let’s be honest, this has nothing to do with religious tolerance, the Constitution or judicial independence. It has everything to do with the fact that these particular speakers subscribe to a worldview that shows opprobrium toward men who copulate with other men– full stop.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbender

    @ Dmwangi

    “I went to a top university and [Maggs is] functionally illiterate”

    That seems about right. And I went to one of the top graduate schools on the Adriatic coast – yet I speak and write beautifully.

    WDYS, Dmwangi?

  • Brett Nortje

    Dmwangi says:
    March 15, 2012 at 19:52 pm

    Uhuh? And how would one commercialise a conference on homo-sensitivity?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Dmwangi
    March 15, 2012 at 19:52 pm

    LOL Dm,

    It’s brave of you to admit that you are complaining to your wife about our exchanges.

    A bit better than Juju who ran to granny when the ANC fired his ass.

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    March 15, 2012 at 20:14 pm

    “Uhuh? And how would one commercialise a conference on homo-sensitivity?”

    Thats easy. You package it in an all inclusive (lubricants excluded) holiday for two in Tel Aviv.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Dmwangi
    March 15, 2012 at 19:52 pm

    DM,

    “men who copulate with other men”

    Like you and the gardener?

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    March 15, 2012 at 20:35 pm

    Ek het daaraan gedink om my eie vraag te beantwoord deur te vra of iemand ‘n stalletjie gaan he wat KY verkoop maar ek is te polities korrek.

    Jy, aan die ander kant, is heeltemal ongepoets.

  • Michael Osborne

    “men who copulate with other men”

    “Like you and the gardener?”

    Maggs, Dmwangi, MDF, OB, and other wry wits:

    Is there any possibility at all that you would form a “satellite” blog? It sometimes seems almost as if you are not really interested in constitutional law, as such.

  • Manie Bosman

    I am not personally a fan, but John Maxwell has repeatedly been rated as top global leadership expert in ‘secular’ ratings. See http://ow.ly/1s8v3z and http://ow.ly/1IvHTe Take particular notice of the criteria for these nominations – religious affiliation or wealth or academic titles are given no consideration. Maybe next time it’s worth the while to just do a little bit of research in order to get all the facts before jumping on the “slam-the-evil-Christian” bandwagon?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Michael Osborne
    March 15, 2012 at 22:11 pm

    Hey Prof,

    Why do you think that dealing with homophobic attitudes has no relevance to “political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law”?????????

  • Cicero Langa

    @Manie
    Ek hoop jy maak ‘n grappie.

  • ozoneblue

    Michael Osborne
    March 15, 2012 at 22:11 pm

    But he vary rarely confines his blog to only constitutional matters, does he? He most often uses the platform to disseminate his own political views and uses it to viscously attack everything that he find disagreeable with his own paranoid whitish pov.

    Further, this self-obsessed cunt is read all over the planet, he is rated – with special appearances both on SABC and often quoted as an “expert” by the media both here and overseas.

    If you can’t stand the heath then get out of the kitchen – it is as simple as that.

  • Michael Osborne

    @ OB

    “If you can’t stand the heath then get out of the kitchen”

    But OB, I love the heath. Especially Hampstead.

    But more seriously, denouncing “self-obessed cunts” adds little to this kitchen. A pity, because foul-mouthed rants aside, your dogged defence of traditional Marxism is a welcome antidote to the unashamed racialism of your most bitter foes on this blog.

  • ozoneblue

    Michael Osborne
    March 15, 2012 at 23:32 pm

    “A pity, because foul-mouthed rants aside”

    What can I say MO. I genuinely hail from the East Rand. Chris Hani was shot dead not too far from my hometown, I will never forget that day when Tokyo Sexwale was weeping like a child on national TV.

  • Dmwangi

    MDF:

    ‘…I went to one of the top graduate schools on the Adriatic coast.’

    Seems about right given the sagacity of your reasoning. I would expect nothing less from someone using your pseudonym.

  • ewald

    Jeezas Kraaist is all I can say. What a load of pure unadulterated crap. “Total package value R2 745 total savings R2 095″ Ha-ha-ha who they think they are fooling, that ‘discount’ must cut it close to the so-called ‘cost’.

    Only God can deliver us from this psychotic :)

    Will the judges who followed the call from this Mogoe from the Sea of Galilea please stand up?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Michael Osborne
    March 15, 2012 at 23:32 pm

    Hey Prof MO,

    “the unashamed racialism of your most bitter foes on this blog”

    Let’s see who those “most bitter” foes could be.

    JR – no, he died.

    Dworky – him neither. Dworky’s ashamed of himself that’s why he hides behind a monkier.

    Brett – nah. He’s just goofy.

    That leaves me. Ok – I admit it. You got me. Me and OB are mortal enemies, sworn to do battle till death. We are the the bitterest of foes.

    And, as is clear for all to see, I am unashamedly racialist (just like the other 1.2 billion other rent-seeking, bunny-chow eating coolies in India who Idi Amin, Charles Dickens and Dmwangi would have wiped of the face of the earth)

    p.s. Are you also jealous that my 10 year old son is the captain of the PROVINCIAL CRICKET TEAM?

    Your cyber protege certainly is!

    p.p.s. So you abandoned our agreement that in 2012 you will try very hard to be a happy chappy and I would refrain from calling your cyber-messenger Idiot Guy.

    So gloves are off, right?

  • Snowman

    Dear Pierre,

    Undoubtedly the choice of M2 was an appalling one which will do long term damage to the credibility of the South African judiciary. Of that there can be no doubt.

    But what concerns me the way that convey your overwhelming hostility towards happy-clappy Christians. Why do you tar all of them with the same brush. It makes me think that perhaps ozoneblue has a point.

    I, for example, wrote on this blog that I thought that Edwin Cameron was an terrible choice for appointment to the Constitutional Court – not because he is gay but because, in my view, he is a very second rate human being.

    Rather criticise the individual for his own views and not on your perception of what his or her group believes.

  • ozoneblue

    hey racist maggot. What do you think of this story. You think it is possible there can be something like a White Freedom Fighter?

    Ninety years ago this week.

    White-on-white violence: The 1922 Rand Revolution

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71639?oid=286744&sn=Detail&pid=71639

    What do you think will happen in the long run if you continue marginalizing white workers with your racist AA. How do you think that is going to turn out for you boet?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Eish,

    A senior legal academic said non-attendance by the upper echelons of the judiciary “raised questions about Mogoeng’s authority and whether judges respected his views and his leadership”.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-03-16-mogoengs-evangelical-gaffe

    Anyone out there who can identify this “senior legal academic”?

    Sounds like either the oke is being very generous or has no clue as to the reality.

    Not even Zuma respects the “leadership” of the CJ.

    He was selected, not for his exemplary abilities which is expected of a CJ, but because he is probably regarded as being a plaint sycophant on the one hand and he was ready to stab the DCJ in the back on the other.

    If the “senior legal academic” (or anyone else) can show a single noteworthy, credible institution which has invited the CJ to make a keynote address or present a paper (in which he actually did make a coherent speech or present an intelligible paper) please share.

    I would love to know what the “senior legal academic” thinks are the qualities of M-squared are which are leadership material of the CJ kind.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    ozoneblue
    March 16, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Hey Most Bitter Foe,

    Were they fighting for a constitutional democracy?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “Dworky’s ashamed of himself that’s why he hides behind a monkier.”

    Maggs, whom do you thinks is monkier – OB or me?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    March 16, 2012 at 8:31 am

    hahahaha – oops.

    But I “thinks” nobody is monkier that you!

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    March 16, 2012 at 8:09 am

    My great-grandfather Godwin was one of those strikers.

    Wish I could have told him in person to go back to England and be red there!

  • ozoneblue

    “Commenting on the matter to the M&G, constitutional law academic at the University of Cape Town Pierre de Vos pointed out a section of the draft code of judicial ethics that states: “A judge does not lend the prestige of the judicial office to advance the private interests of the judge or others.”

    De Vos said: “By asking judicial leaders to attend this seminar, the chief justice is thus promoting a private money-making scheme and in my view was in breach of this draft code, something that might well lead to censure by the JSC if it were to take its responsibility seriously and wanted to comply with its constitutional duty to protect the dignity and impartiality of the judiciary.”

    So the apparent “logic” captured in there is that any attempts to provide such developmental courses offered by outside parties would necessarily entail the advancement of the “private interests” of others.

    See how De Vos and the “independent” media complement each other almost working as a team. He picked up from the M&G report and the M&G in turn quoted him in turn to reinforce the propaganda. I have noted that interaction several times in the past.

    So yet to see a single shred of evidence that the leadership course content would have amounted to evangelic Christian proselytism. On the contrary – many people have pointed out that John Maxwell is considered an international expert in the area of leadership and highly rated motivational speaker.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Brett Nortje
    March 16, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Hey G,

    “Wish I could have told him in person to go back to England and be red there!”

    That would have been wonderful, cos then you would not have been born.

    And we would have one less irritant :)

    On the other hand I would have not had a plaything :(.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Due process, pah!

    The President has decided.

    Let’s hope the NDAC are listening to orders from higher up, just like Mogoeng is.

    “It [the youth league] will have to have a new president that will be able to move the organisation forward, I don’t think it’s a crisis,” he said.

    http://www.thenewage.co.za/46365-1007-53-ANCYL_must_accept_Malemas_fate_Zuma

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Oops!

    Sorry Mr President but I think the ANC KZN is talking about YOU.

    Durban – The KwaZulu-Natal ANC on Tuesday said it disapproves of its members discussing the party’s disciplinary committee’s decision to expel ANC Youth League president Julius Malema.

    “For members of the ANC to go out in public and tell the world their opinion about the pronouncement of the NDC is wrong,” provincial secretary Sihle Zikalala said in Durban.

    Zikalala said the national disciplinary committee’s (NDC) processes should remain an internal ANC matter. Those who commented on the NDC’s decision, whether in favour or against, showed ill-discipline.

    ANC members should respect the ANC procedures and discipline. People have adopted a tendency where… they talk about the ANC in the media, and we are calling for order in that regard.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Dont-discuss-Malema-expulsion-KZN-ANC-20120306

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    OB, your defense of M-squared on this issue makes you the most fair-minded atheist I know.

    (I mean “old” atheist, not “new.”)

  • Brett Nortje

    I don’t know what short of amputation could stop you playing with your thing, Maggs…

  • Dmwangi

    ‘Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    March 16, 2012 at 14:08 pm
    OB, your defense of M-squared on this issue makes you the most fair-minded atheist I know.

    (I mean “old” atheist, not “new.”)’

    Agreed. It is laudable and speaks to his intellectual honesty.

  • ozoneblue

    @mdf

    I always thought atheists are decent people with integrity who believe in fairness, logic and scientific evidence instead of irrationality, dogma, deceit, lies and intellectually dishonest smear tactics.

  • Brett Nortje

    Izzzzit?

    En hoeveel duisende mense was daar in die studiegroep waar jy hierdie algemene reel afgelei het?

  • andre

    In the 70s we had the Scope magazine bringing breakthroughs to us on a weekly basis: 14 ways to better sex, 17 way to get promoted and so on. No doubt, they learnt this from our American friends. Then later, we had drivel in the from various fashion mags again bombarding my precious brown eyes with MORE breakthroughs, 36 way to raise your kids, 124 way to a climax. Recently, these self-taught experts have added a new dimension: time. ‘Lose 6 kg in 2 weeks’. Huh! Now biblical people have latched on to this ‘mode’ of thinking. 21 ways to do this, 12 ways for that, 18 things for that. Life is far more complex than that, and if they are right then we are overdue for new groundbreaking books, to name two: ’22 ways to beat apartheid blues’ and ’46 ways to beat Juju in an argument’. Sounds like kak! Well, it is.

  • Bhagat

    ozoneblue/Maggs Naidu

    You both are racist brainwashed christian bigots!

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    What is a “meeting”?

    [KwaZulu-Natal provincial commissioner Lieutenant-General Mmamonnye Ngobeni ] said: ”I’m trying to understand the meaning of a meeting … is it people sitting around a table or something else?”

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/03/18/comical-cops-pass-the-buck

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Bhagat
    March 18, 2012 at 1:51 am

    Hey Bhagat,

    I deny that I am brainwashed!

    Ok maybe not 100%.

    p.s. Do you want to buy some anointing oil?

    Better place your order quickly cos I am going to church with my brother OB.

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
    March 18, 2012 at 7:43 am

    Isn’t affirmative action wonderful, Maggs?

  • Brett Nortje

    Hey? WDYS?

    Getting the back of the kleptocracy’s chief enforcer:

    http://afrikaans.news24.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Cele-opvolger-plunder-glo-maar-bly-dalk-skotvry-20120318

    ‘Cele-opvolger’ plunder glo, maar bly dalk skotvry
    2012-03-18 07:10

    Paddy Harper In Durban en Adriaan Basson In Johannesburg

    Suid-Afrika se volgende moontlike polisiehoof word van plundery en wanbestuur in die misdaadintelligensie-eenheid beskuldig.

    Tog sal lt.genl. Richard Mdluli waarskynlik nie vervolg word nie omdat die Valke, wat die saak oopgekrap het, opdrag gegee is om alle ondersoeke hierna te staak.

    ’n Geheime polisieverslag wys op die omvang van Mdluli se beweerde wandade sedert pres. Jacob Zuma hom in Julie 2009 as die polisie se hoofspioen aangestel het. Die verslag is in die besit van City Press, Rapport se susterskoerant.

    Maj.genls. Chris de Kock en Mark Hankel het die verslag in November aan adv. Faith Radebe, die inspekteur-generaal van intelligensie (IGI), oorhandig.

    Mdluli is verlede jaar gearresteer op twee aanklagte van moord en bedrog en is daarna geskors.

    Die klagte is later teruggetrek in wat beskou word as ’n poging van senior politici om seker te maak dat Mdluli genl. Bheki Cele, geskorste polisiehoof, se pos kan vul.

    Mdluli word gereeld in die polisie se binnekringe as Cele se opvolger genoem. Dit blyk dat Zuma Mdluli steun, deels danksy die omstrede intelligensieverslag waarin mnr. Tokyo Sexwale, minister van behuising, en ander ANC-politici daarvan beskuldig word dat hulle Zuma as ANC-leier wil onttroon.

    Die Mdluli-verslag is aan Radebe gegee net vier dae nadat De Kock en Hankel haar daarvan ingelig het. Dit onthul onder meer dat:

    * Familie van Mdluli onregmatig aangestel is;
    * Mdluli staatsvoertuie misbruik het;
    * Sy vrou, toe nog nie ’n polisiebeampte nie, hom met belastingbetalersgeld op ’n buitelandse besoek vergesel het;
    * ’n Groepie intelligensie-operateurs, onder wie Mdluli, meer as 50 reise vir hulle en hul familie op staatskoste bespreek het; en
    * Die polisie verskeie “veilige huise” (vir getuiebeskermingsprogramme) vir Mdluli en sy familie gehuur het.

    De Kock en Hankel het ook geskryf misdaadintelligensie probeer die ondersoek ontspoor.

    Sowat vier maande nadat die verslag ingedien is, het lt.genl. Anwar Dramat, Valke-bevelvoerder, alle ondersoeke na korrupsie by misdaadintelligensie stopgesit.

    City Press verneem die opdrag het gekom van lt.genl. Nhlanhla Mkhwanazi, waarnemende polisiehoof.

    Kol. McIntosh Polela, Dramat se woordvoerder, wou nie sê waarom die ondersoeke gestaak is nie.

    Brig. Lindela Mashigo, Mkhwanazi se woordvoerder, het net gevra dat die media die herstruktureringsproses in misdaadintelligensie respekteer.

    Mdluli se regsverteenwoordiger, Ike Motloung, het gesê dis jammer “elemente in die polisie en hul kohorte in die media” het so laag gedaal om nie meer te kan onderskei wat intelligensie is en wat nie.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Brett Nortje
    March 18, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Hey G,

    It’s unsurprising.

    Oh well, the much needed change is on its way.

    Zuma must GO!

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/03/18/motlanthe-wants-top-job

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Oh well, if Zuma can do nonsense, so too can ordinary ANC members!

    Former Msunduzi deputy mayor Alpha Shelembe was announced as the new chairman of the Moses Mabhida region (Pietermaritzburg), while former Buffalo City mayor Zukiswa Faku won the election to lead the ANC in the greater East London region.

    While the two regional conferences took place independently of each other, it is the questionable character of the two leaders that is of concern.

    Shelembe is currently facing charges of corruption, fraud and money laundering. It is alleged that he played a role in the selling of a building to the district municipality at an inflated price.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/03/18/sunday-morning-assessment-time-anc-rid-itself-of-questionable-leaders

    And civil servants too!

    PARLIAMENT is embroiled in a scandal involving its administrative chief, Zingile Dingani, who used the institution’s money to build a R186000 boundary wall at his home.

    Dingani said he had approval for this, but insiders insist that he misled the institution’s executive authority, including the Speaker, on the matter.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/03/18/top-state-official-in-wall-scandal

  • ozoneblue

    Bhagat
    March 18, 2012 at 1:51 am

    “You both are racist brainwashed christian bigots!”

    I must admit I cannot argue with such a well formulated irrefutable assertion.

    Can I ask you something Bhagat. Why did you, PdV and his fellow “atheist” bigots at M&G not go bos when the FBI/CIA trained the Scorpions? Don’t you think it would have been more appropriate if an atheist country like China, Russia, Sweden or Cuba who didn’t directly support Apartheid trained such a powerful unit?

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com
    March 18, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Isn’t it interesting how the author of that article totally forget about the specter of corruption hanging of Mothlante (in less than a week) and managed not to mention it at all.

    It reminds me of the selective amnesia of De Vos when he constantly forgets how ex-M&G employee Ivor Powel working for the Scorpions consistently leaked confidential documents into the media, and how it was later proven that Bulelani and McCarty were very likely in on it.

  • Brett Nortje

    My friend Marjan David – the Count of Celje – used to call it ‘the deadly triangle’… Almost got Vavi too.

    Anyway, now we know why the attempt was made to take Motlanthe out.

    Thank goodness the furore about Chris Hani’s assassination has deterred LaNkosiNostra fromplaying the Josiah-Tongogara game. So far.

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
    March 18, 2012 at 8:30 am

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=167337

    Police unions doubt top brass
    The South African Policing Union tells Parliament that ordinary
    police officials have no confidence that serious consideration is
    given to senior appointments
    WYNDHAM HARTLEY
    Published: 2012/03/14 07:19:51 AM

    With a former national police commissioner in prison for fraud
    and corruption, and his successor suspended, ordinary police
    officials had no confidence that serious consideration was given
    to these appointments, the South African Policing Union (Sapu)
    told Parliament yesterday.

    Sapu and the Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union (Popcru) used
    budget vote hearings in the police committee to criticise the
    senior management as being top-heavy and “bloated”, with a
    negative effect on service delivery.

    Sapu president Mpho Kwinika said: “Today we meet in this
    committee with a former national commissioner languishing in jail
    for a serious crime of corruption and another on suspension.

    “This does not give our members confidence that serious
    consideration is given (to) these appointments.” However, he said
    he realised the issue was not within the scope of the committee.

    He also made a plea for the internal police anticorruption unit,
    disbanded by Jackie Selebi while he was in charge, to be
    re-established.

    “This unit employed police officers with the highest integrity,
    and had the skills and experience to gather quality evidence
    that, when presented to a disciplinary hearing, stood up to
    scrutiny, ” he said. “We need to find how we can institutionalise
    an anticorruption approach in the police services, otherwise we
    risk failing in our responsibility as police officers to provide
    peace and security to the citizens of this country”.

    Popcru’s Lebogang Phepheng said the union had told the committee
    many times “the SAPS organisational structure is top-heavy”.

    “A flatter organisational structure is required rather than the
    many layers of command and control currently in existence, for
    better service delivery to all South Africans,” he said. Any new
    structure should incorporate decentralisation of both work and
    authority, with specialised skills deployed at station level.

    Mr Phepheng said the top-heavy structure led to duplication of
    functions, which consumed large amounts of the police budget.
    “This bloated structure squeezes the department’s prospects of
    sufficient staffing at station level, where manpower is really
    needed.”

    Mr Kwinika also charged that there was a lack of consistency
    concerning police officers who were suspended. He said senior
    officers enjoyed suspension on full pay while junior officers had
    their salaries and benefits withdrawn immediately after being
    suspended.

    “While in principle we welcome tougher measures to be taken, we
    think that this policy must be applied evenly across all ranks.

    “We have also noted that senior police officers enjoy support
    from government when charged with misconduct, yet ordinary
    members have to look for their own lawyers even when charged with
    misconduct while employed by the police department,” he said.

    Sapu members wanted legal support from the department when
    charged, Mr Kwinika said.

    Lisa Vetten, of the Tshwaranang Legal Advocacy Centre, noted that
    while the murder of men was on the decrease, the same could not
    be said for women, whose murders were increasing year by year.

    Ms Vetten also questioned the way in which the police calculated
    their detection rates.

    She said the number of cases used to make the calculation should
    be the sum of those referred to court, those withdrawn, and those
    declared as unfounded, and then divided by the number of cases
    reported

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    March 18, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Meneer, het u die foto bo-aan die stories gesien?

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    ozoneblue
    March 18, 2012 at 9:32 am

    OB,

    There’s no “[spectre] of corruption hanging of Mothlante”.

    Attempts at dirty politics are at play to try and dissuade Mothlante.

    It was the similar to the dirty-tricks that the Mbeki lobby used to try and keep Zuma from ascending to office.

    If anything these underhanded schemes will only strengthen Mothlante.

    Zuma must go!

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    LOL @ CJ Mogoeng-squared.

    Not the ANC, SACP, COSATU, ANCYL, ANCWL, BLA, AFT, LHR, the Bar Councils, CSA, COPE, DA, Victims International Church, POWA, SPCA but …

    Christian Democratic Party defends Mogoeng

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-03-18-christian-democratic-party-defends-mogoeng

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!
    March 18, 2012 at 10:12 am

    I see. Motlantle was trailed by the media and found innocent within less than a week.

    PdV didn’t follow up much cause it doesn’t matter his personal hatred is fixated on the “left-leaning” who happened to be involved with operation Vula, didn’t even mention that it was probably a gross abuse of the PP office to refer a private matter to her as a political maneuver.

    Where is Judge Heath and the SIU or the Hawks – shouldn’t they be investigating this?

  • Brett Nortje

    Gaan lees Executive Members’ Ethics Act 82 of 1998, sot!

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    ozoneblue
    March 18, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Do say what it is that you think Mothlante did which is corrupt!

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    Dirty tricks didn’t end with Mbeki

    What is clear is that as the stakes increase and the pressure is cranked up between now and December, the dirty tricks, the abuse of state resources and the infighting between those meant to protect the nation will intensify.

    http://www.citypress.co.za/Politics/News/Dirty-tricks-didnt-end-with-Mbeki-20120317

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!
    March 18, 2012 at 11:49 am

    “Do say what it is that you think Mothlante did which is corrupt!”

    I have never said I think he is corrupt. but aren’t the double standards just fascinating. I would have imagined upright incorruptible champions of the Constitution like PdV/M&G would be all up in arms demanding Hawks/SIU investigations etc. etc. Now all we get is a stunning silence. Why is that?

    The way prof Chameleon wet his panties with Zuma/Mac Maharaj, can nobody remember nothing no more?

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    ozoneblue
    March 18, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    OB,

    “Why is that?”

    One of the things that made Mbeki so disliked is the dirty tricks using the state resources to fight ANC political opponents.

    Zuma was supported on the basis that such practices would be shunned.

    Now he’s turned many institutions in something worse than could possibly have been imagined.

    Even his CJ is regarded as a comedy – none of the organisations which desperately tried to defend Mogoeng’s appointment have come out in defence of him in this latest fiasco.

    No organisation of any significance, as far as I know, have invited him to present a paper or keynote address.

    Zuma’s appointment of an apartheid era policeman to head Crime Intelligence has to be the lowest that the ANC has sunk to.

    Mothlante is a dignified statesman – all this muck raking can only bolster his profile. Ordinary ANC members will not take kindly to these antics.

    It’s one fight Zuma will lose – and deservedly so. His conduct as President has been nothing short of disgraceful.

  • Pingback: Judicial philosophy conflicting with the Constitution | Statutory Interpretation()

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!
    March 18, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “One of the things that made Mbeki so disliked is the dirty tricks using the state resources to fight ANC political opponents.”

    Mbeki was disliked because he sold out the RDP. Mbeki was certainly never disliked by the greedy capitalist scum that use the ANC and government for self-enrichment only.

    But yet you haven’t one iota of evidence to prove that assertion. Or any proof that the Sunday times got their info from inside the security establishment. Just as PdV never presented one iota of evidence to substantiate his continued assertions that Zuma “eliminated” juju. Just as PdV never presented one iota of evidence that the leadership workshop was an evangelic Christian exercise. All we have had from him was continuously changing his opinion about things, lies, deceit and pretty fucking bizarre double standards.

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    ozoneblue
    March 18, 2012 at 13:02 pm

    OB,

    “But yet you haven’t one iota of evidence to prove that assertion.”

    Do you have one iota of evidence to prove otherwise?

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    March 18, 2012 at 13:02 pm

    Jy laat my dink aan daai outjie wat die heeltyd kak anmerkings oor Helen Suzman gemaak het desperaat vir net so ‘n klein bietjie van haar weerkaatsde glorie.

    Mbeki het so ‘n bietjie respek gekry om hy die makro ekonomie verstaan het en die begroting kon balanseer. JZ doen dit greek style.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “It’s one fight Zuma will lose – and deservedly so. His conduct as President has been nothing short of disgraceful.”

    I don’t care how bad Mbeki or Zuma were/are. The fact is that the ANC is bigger than both men, and can be counted upon to produce a worthy heir. That is why I too am so inspired by Mothlante (a “dignified statesman”).

    No matter what happens, I say that the ANC is the only party that can represent the aspirations of our people.

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    LOL @ the Head of Court.

    Heads of court support Mogoeng Mogoeng

    “The heads of courts have noted some of the allegations in the media about Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng in the wake of the invitation to them to attend a conference,” they said in a statement.

    “The invitation was not to a religious event but to a leadership conference, which nobody was ordered or compelled to attend.”

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Heads-of-court-support-Mogoeng-Mogoeng-20120318

    NOBODY attended the “leadership conference”!

    It certainly shows that they “had full confidence in Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng and would support him in his duties.”

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    Hey CJ,

    Do you know this guy???

    Sibusiso Mthembu, 64, said there were 11 heavens and he had drawn a map of them, the Sowetan newspaper reported.

    http://news.howzit.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=160813725

    I’m a bit suspicious because Mthembu says “An angel, whom I later realised was Gabriel, who was in his early 20s” – everyone knows that the Angel Gabriel is at least 31 years old!

    WDYS?

  • Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com

    It seems like Tracey Chapman is a mini-Nostradamus accurately predicting “finally the tables are starting to turn …”

    Susan Dhliwayo was stunned when she pulled her car over recently to pick up a group of male hitchhikers and they refused to get in. The reason? They feared being raped.

    Sensational reports of gangs of beautiful women picking up male travellers to have sex and harvest their sperm in condoms have gripped Zimbabwe in a dizzying mix of taboos, rituals and the downright bizarre.

    “Now, men fear women. They said: ‘we can’t go with you because we don’t trust you’,” 19-year-old Dhliwayo recounted.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/2012/03/22/sperm-hunting-women-prowl-zimbabwe-highways

  • Why I hate PeeCee

    ] determination to keep homosexuals out of the word “marriage” and, thereby,
    ] “family.” -Andrew Sullivan on the Blog, the Dish.

    I hate the PeeCee pushers who insult my inteligence by requiring
    terminology upgrades: homosexual to gay; problem to challenge..etc.

    But I concede that there may be some value in: “you can’t tell people the
    truth, you must word it like bla..bla”.
    So when Krugman mocks the conservatives who use the simplistic wording of:
    “like households, the state must live within it’s budget”, to promote currently
    disasterous austerity; I’m coming to realise that they [the one’s that DO
    understand] are looking far ahead.

    Analagously, I suddenly agree with the homosexuals, if their reasoning is:
    * homosexuality is genetic and can’t be “cured”;
    * they want a normal life, as much as possible, including the psychological
    effects of dependants, which they want to refer to as ‘their children';
    * importantly these children should grow up as normal hetrosexuals;
    therefore, by calling such an entity a ‘family’ its differences are hidden,
    which better allows the dependants/children to integrate into the next
    generation of society.

    Also, it’s proven and obvious, that like all traits, homosexuality is inherited.
    So if society put less pressure on homosexuals to have hetrosexual marriages,
    the homosexual gene-pool would decrease.

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!