Constitutional Hill

Dating: What does race got to do with it?

A recent article published in UCT’s Varsity newspaper (and especially the mini-survey accompanying the article) created a furore because it “found” that a majority of those surveyed believed “quite unsurprisingly”, according to the author, that “Caucasians” (another name, apparently, for people who used to be classified as “white” during Apartheid) were viewed as the “most attractive” race by those surveyed. It is unclear whether people were angry because the survey was conducted at all or because the results seem to confirm that the ideology of white superiority is still so firmly entrenched among at least some students of all races in South Africa. Whatever the reasons, it is clear in a divided and unequal society like South Africa, notions of beauty and sexual attraction are highly politicised.

The results of Varsity’s mini-survey – although entirely unscientific – did not come as a surprise to me. Yes, it is somewhat shocking to be confronted with the fact that the ideology of white superiority still permeates our culture and that so called born frees are also infected with this illness. But you only have to look around you to know that the completely bizarre and unfounded message that “white” is somehow better, more desirable, more worthy of adoration and respect, continues to dominate.

Socially, culturally and economically, post-Apartheid South Africa is still largely structured in a way that perpetuates the notion of white superiority (the very notion which was used to justify colonialism, Apartheid and white minority rule in general). To some extent this serves as a testimony to the invidious and destructive effects of colonialism. But it also suggests that since 1994 successive governments have not really been able or willing to attack this problem head-on.

English remains the dominant language in our country, the language of academic discourse, the language whose mastery is still widely perceived to be an indication of your intelligence and wisdom. Boy, you better not speak English with “an accent” – as if the Queen or George W Bush does not speak English with an accent. If you happen to speak English with an “African” or even “Afrikaans” accent, you will have to work a little bit harder to prove to those with power that you are hard-working and diligent and intelligent. The other day an African acquaintance, while expressing a yearning for the return of Thabo Mbeki, even suggested to me that she revered Mbeki as a great leader because of his command of the English language.

The best schools, those schools most parents aspire to send their children to, are seldom found in Khayelitsha, Soweto or KwaMashu. No, they are almost always found in the former (still predominantly “white”) suburbs and they largely still work tirelessly to instil in pupils those values and cultures brought to South Africa by the colonisers. Maybe I am wrong, but I have not heard of many sought after “quality” schools whose institutional culture rejects colonial English or Afrikaans ideas about knowledge and discipline and instead embody values that dominate in traditional isiZulu or isiXhosa cultures.

No wonder, then, that many of the students surveyed – both black and white – have bought into this idea that white people are more beautiful and also more sexually desirable. These views are to some extent imposed by the dominant culture to which middle-class children are exposed every day and many children – both black and white – internalise this nonsense. It reflects – to some degree, at least – the prejudices, assumptions and world view of those who dominate the world.

This is not that different from the many gay men who internalise the idea that “macho” or “butch” men are more handsome and are therefore more sexually desirable, than so called “effeminate” men. We live in a sexist world in which many gay men would equate “effeminacy” in other men with weakness, inferiority, and a lower status. It is only when we change the way in which our world is structured that these ideas that permeate our culture will begin to fade.

This is the broader context in which surveys about which racial group is the “most attractive” will always be highly problematic and will inevitably offend many people. Perhaps this is so because the results of such surveys will invariably reflect the unequal power relations between white and black in society and will almost certainly affirm the deeply embedded racial prejudices and the dominance of the ideology of white superiority. And those who are insulted by such surveys will also feel that by reporting on such phenomena, newspapers run the risk of perpetuating, instead of undermining, the power hierarchy.

Having said that, uncomfortable questions remain. Surely, some would say, sexual attraction is a complex thing and it would be dangerous to even try to censure people for being attracted to a certain category of person. After all, while some men are sexually mostly attracted to women, some of us are mostly attracted to other men. Surely this does not mean that all gay men are sexist pigs who despise women? Maybe some people just really adore that pinkish or reddish skin that most “white” people have – just as some people are attracted to people with big feet or small ears.

Some gay men just do not find other men attractive unless they look like Cristiano Renaldo, Hennie Bekker or David Beckham. While I might find Burton Francis or David Tlale more beautiful and more sexually attractive than Hennie Bekker or David Beckham, does that necessarily mean that I am less oppressed by sexist notions of masculinity and racist notions of white superiority than somebody who simply does not get that Burton Francis is the most handsome rugby player in the world?

I would suggest that it is important to acknowledge that notions of beauty and sexual attractiveness are both highly political and highly personal. But that does not let us off the hook. I suspect that it would be impossible for most people to determine whether they are more attracted to a white person because of a witting or unwitting internalisation of the notion of white superiority or because of other, less problematic reasons. If this is true, we all have to ask ourselves difficult questions about our own notions of beauty and who we find sexually attractive.

This would be especially true if you realise that your notions of beauty or sexual attractiveness reflect the views of those who are culturally, politically and economically dominant. In other words, if you find white people more attractive than black people; if you find somebody of a different sex more attractive than somebody of the same sex; if you find rich people more attractive than poor people; if you find “butch” men more attractive than “effeminate” men or “effeminate” women more attractive than “butch” women; then maybe you need to ask yourself difficult questions about your own internalised prejudices.

Because our notions of beauty and sexual attractiveness are both deeply political (because it is influenced by the world we live in and the messages we receive from the culture we are steeped in) and utterly personal (because it is to some degree determined by childhood and other personal experiences that are difficult to identify), we cannot escape responsibility for the choices we make. At the very least, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow human beings to subject our beliefs about the beauty of individuals and the sexual desirability of others to critical scrutiny. After all, if we want to live ethical lives, the last thing we would want to do is to perpetuate deeply ingrained stereotypes and prejudices through the choices we make about who we find beautiful and who we find sexually desirable.

  • roger

    Great article. You’re really insightful. (referring to other of your articels as well)

    I assume that those that took the questionairre are university students and therefore mostly 18 to 25. This age group, I think is still largely compiled of immature thinkers. Ask 50 year old’s to take the same questionairre and I suspect the result will be different. Not vastly, but somewhat, underlining the fact that mature thinkers leave those “childish” ways behind.

    P.S. I’m in no way suggesting that maturity is solely reserved for the old.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    All it would have taken for those notions of white superiority to disappear like mist before the sun was for the ANC to run the country well.

  • craig

    I wonder whether students in 2013 were mostly born after the end of apartheid and were not usually subject to the statutory segregation of previous generations. Possibly, today’s students were exposed to a greater degree of integration and one would expect that there is a greater sense of equality.

    I read yesterday a rant by a young white guy protesting that he will not be giving up his wealth to any black person because he personally is not responsible for apartheid. This attitude misses totally the notion that he was moulded by a quite different and privileged social reality BECAUSE he is white.

    We are a mixed family of five and we talk about race and encourage our children to express their experience of race and identity. Their school and social experience is completely inclusive – what a privilege! I trust that we have been able to demonstrate and to teach them that character is a much better and reliable basis on which to establish friendships.

  • Herman Lategan

    Wie is Hennie Bekker? Rugby? Ek gaan nou Google. Good piece.

  • Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hayibo Pierre,

    “Maybe some people just really adore that pinkish or reddish skin that most ‘white’ people have”

    Sounds to me like you’re suggesting that Brett resembles PORK!

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Craig, my mom waited until she was 29 and my sister until she was 27 before they started having children.

    This has been no modus vivendi with more than 68 000 whites murdered since 1994. Black South Africans have done very little to perform under the partnership agreement.

  • Zoo Keeper

    The student interviewed 60 folks, 10 from each category. If each liked themselves only, then each group would be 16.7%.

    Blacks got 8% or something like that, which means half liked studetns from other groups (not necessarily whites mind you).

    The whites got what, 38%, so they doubled their catchment area. We don’t know which racial groups liked the whites and which did not so we have no data to make any assumptions other than this reflects the views of 60 random students.

    But I disagree with the Prof. Politics has sweet fuck all to do with finding someone else attractive. Either you like them or you don’t. The Prof may not like whites because he has superimposed his political hate for whites, but that is fine. That is entirely the Professor’s choice.

    But it is equally the choice of the 60 students.

    The view that it has something to do with white superiority or politics is dumb. Either someone gets the blood going or they don’t. As far as I know it happens on a primal level in the reptilian brain, not the frontal cortex.

    Remember how many NG Kerk Dominees used to get caught with their shepherd’s staff in the domestic’s bloomers back in the day? Piet Koornhof anyone? Politics has sweet fuck all to do with wanting to jump somebody’s batteries.

  • Dean

    Who is Hennie Bekker?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    “Blacks got 8% or something like that, which means half liked studetns from other groups (not necessarily whites mind you).

    The whites got what, 38%, so they doubled their catchment area. We don’t know which racial groups liked the whites and which did not so we have no data to make any assumptions other than this reflects the views of 60 random students.”

    Of course it all depends on what the point is these neo-racists would like to make. If it is “Employment Equity definitions of race” and such salient things then “blacks” in fact got 42%. But you would never expect any sort of logical consistency from these blokes because their intellectually impoverished race ideologies are based on mountains of irrationality, pseudo science, fraud, lies and deceit.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    “Yes, it is somewhat shocking to be confronted with the fact that the ideology of white superiority still permeates our culture and that so called born frees are also infected with this illness. But you only have to look around you to know that the completely bizarre and unfounded message that “white” is somehow better, more desirable, more worthy of adoration and respect, continues to dominate.”

    Really – and just how beautiful and sexually desirable to you find these white people?

    http://blogs.reuters.com/photo/files/2010/03/Squatters7.jpg

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue
  • Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    April 9, 2013 at 8:55 am

    LOL ZooKy,

    You’re padding!

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 9, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Hey Brett

    “Craig, my mom waited until she was 29″

    And she regretted not waiting till after you were born, ne!

  • Pierre De Vos

    Hennie Bekker is father of Andries Bekker. Both played lock forward for the Springboks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    More beautiful, sexy white people:

    http://www.frameworkonline.com/audio/triomf.html

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Maggs, are you insinuating having a golden child like yours truly would not motivate even the most timerous parent to go forth and multiply?

  • The Ghetto Banker

    An unreading- why I find the survey funny
    and refuse to be offended by its racism.

    I suspect that in a different time; a time- to come, that survey may have raised more laughs than concern.

    Is “whiteness”, both in Africans and ‘Caucasians’ an apartheid relic that successive governments have failed to abolish? I really don’t care because that never was the ANC government’s confessed aim but I concur with parts of your argument that the language of the article locates it in our apartheid past and one easily finds influences of Madison Grant in such honest projects.

    Does conducting an easthetic survey of races mean our constitutional ideals are being abondoned even ridiculed by what takes place on a family level; the passing from one generation to another of traditions and prejudices which we had hoped the new dispensation will render unfathomable?

    Conversely, had the results favoured the previously powerless therefore ugly and unattractive -did the survey say Blacks or Africans (as if it makes a difference)- say blacks for now, the question of inter-racial relationships still remains a prickly subject. Even in your ‘insightful’ reflection its easy for to accuse you of unwittingly arguing from an unspoken although widely held South African preference that races\classes should stick to each other. (Your same sex attraction and interracial attracttiveness of Tlale’s are approached and treated as additional moral devations that serve to illustrate that even in subcultures there exist an unelected heirachy whose values dominate or are associative of the subculture but do not necessarily hold true for its ‘affiliate’ individuals, that’s what I learn from your gay community illustration)
    So on the national level we have this order that we are trying to maintain, pitifully it bursts when we reach the individual level. Ooh the treachery of Trickle Down Values and Morality!
    The problem? Is as you suggest our tools for analysing and thinking about our comatose political society have been race, class and historical analyses. The answer we get is almost always -racism and apartheid combinations.

    What I know for certain is that we have a South Africa that says ‘We want beautiful things that capture our eye, appeal to our prejudices, promise us television heaven and pixalated fantasies, and invoke envy in others’- this is our capitalist creed shorthanded: Development -as it has been sold to us election after election since 1994.

    How then do we tie an aspirant and power hungry class’ concept of power with racism, when our pursuit was a ‘mirror mirror on Constitutionhill who’s is the most attractive of them all’ game? For a while now “whiteness” represented freedom: access to land and its wealth, hegemony and self-preservation through segregation (Immoral Act, private healthcare, gated compounds, elite schools etc.) Failing to be “white” -free in other words, what does it mean? Blacks I know loathe poor whites, they despise their red kalkoen-sunburned-skin and dirty hair that clings and tangles like an overworn weave or cheap hair extensions. I know some feel proud when they wear their tradional garb, but they espouse power and sexy appeal when tailored in imported fabrics and are standing in uncomfortable shoes. Attractiveness is equated with acceptability. Perhaps capturing with wet lips and impassioned lust that boils in the groins- “whiteness” as beauty is the last fronteir- Mandela’s national reconciliation hurdle.

    This tells us the political distance which exists between the various races cannot easily be reduced by class integration rather equality of opportunity and a healthy dose of imagination.

    However that is not so easy to do since we are yet to divest our language and identity away from the inherited colonial concepts which often reinforce white supremacy.

    The idea of attraction, regardless of prejudices and preferences, is about our secret hope, what we hope to find in another person- an equal, at the very least but nothing less. The survey says to some- political power for blacks has not been the freedom some find attractive or aspire to. It is merely skin deep!

    Here lies the problem, not with the survey but the impotency of black power in a democratic dispensation.

    @UN8

  • craig

    I do not believe that 68,000 whites have been murdered since 1994. Reference that (and NOT the Vryhuidsfront please). It is well known that in SA 70% of people murdered have been killed by someone they know.

    You wrote: “Black South Africans have done very little to perform under the partnership agreement.”
    What exactly are you speaking about? And how do you measure “perform” in this statement? How have other ‘groups’ “performed”?

    You seem to be turning generalisations and revisionist opinion into fact.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    The tragic irony is that so many of the very attractive whites with which the Lord has blesssed South Africa are now confined to pestilent SQUATTER CAMPS, where the harsh environment is ravaging their fair complexions!

    Thanks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    craig
    April 9, 2013 at 10:28 am

    “You seem to be turning generalisations and revisionist opinion into fact.”

    And you don’t find this survey to be either of those two?

    How do you feel about generalisations such as “whites are beautiful” and “whites are still controlling the economy” – given the fact that 70% of the wealth in South Africa are controlled by Black people.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    craig
    April 9, 2013 at 10:28 am

    “I do not believe that 68,000 whites have been murdered since 1994. Reference that (and NOT the Vryhuidsfront please).”

    That is because you don’t want to believe it. Just as you hide your reactionary resistance to the class struggle behind a morbid obsession and thinly concealed diversionary tactic of RACE RACE RACE.

  • Thamie_Durban

    @ Ozoneblue April 9, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Their mothers obviously did not wait till they were 29 to reproduce!!!!

  • Mike

    @MDF – That also occurred a 100 years ago during the Boer war when they were locked up in concentration camps when they were ravaged by the sun.
    You failed to answer a question I raised with you some time back which was why did the blacks sit on the arse and leave it up to the afrikaner to to take up arms against the British.
    Go and read the book “Good bye Dolly Gray”which gives an inciteful account of jingoism in England at the time, something which evry blog of yours is laced with.

  • Gwebecimele

    PdV

    Your quote of the week is misleading. I challenge you to request a tape of the Portfolio Committee Session last week OR contact Dept. Lekota signed something else (which includes VIP) after 2007, he did not deny this claim by Minister of Defence.

  • Howard Klaaste

    Blades’ invlovement in higher education certainly brought an ugly twist to varsity politics.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    I prefer to think they have very deliberately been targeted for that kind of displacement.

    Thamie_Durban says:
    April 9, 2013 at 10:57 am

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Well-aimed, Howard. Closest to the mark.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Pretty hard to prove when the ANC records one’s race on a gun licence application or a university admission form but not on the docket where the facts about your murder are collated.

    Ozoneblue says:
    April 9, 2013 at 10:42 am

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Compare the track records of the Cabinets Pallo Jordan and Margaret Thatcher sat in?

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Margaret Thatcher won the Cold War Pallo Jordan won the Battle of the Imperial War Museum in which a curator was blinded!

    LOL!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 9, 2013 at 11:10 am

    “Pretty hard to prove when the ANC records one’s race on a gun licence application or a university admission form but not on the docket where the facts about your murder are collated.”

    In fact you should just complete these forms and enter “African” under all categories “race”. All of us are being duped and coerced into buying into this racist rubbish, this “self-identification” bullshit. If ALL our people start simply stating we are Africans that will be a very powerful form of civil disobedience and very, very hard to stop.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    April 9, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Mike,

    “why did the blacks sit on the arse and leave it up to the afrikaner to to take up arms against the British”

    Probably because the wonderful Lazyboy chair was not invented until well after WHITE people battled each other – and there was no DSTV or cinema style popcorn either.

    Ringside seats, if those were available at the time, would have sold at a premium – Computicket will be so sad, ne!

    Can you organise another war between those two warring lots – we could use the empty SWC stadiums!

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    April 9, 2013 at 9:55 am

    Hey OB,

    “And a list of stunningly beautiful Guptas.”

    If you think that’s good – you will be overwhelmed by this!

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=256929714434103&set=a.208056065988135.43841.208038205989921&type=1

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Good news here.

    “The YCL indicated that they would report the publication to the Human Rights Commission and demanded “a full apology and retraction” of the article.”

    It’s not clear when the survey was undertaken, but in the article, Qabo points out that she interviewed students of each race.

    “In total, I surveyed 60 people, 10 from each of the following racial groups: white, coloured (culturally), Indian, East Asian, biracial and African,” she wrote.

    Mangaliso Khomo, chairman of the YCL branch at the university, said publication of the survey was insensitive, and that issues of race relations on campus were “a work in progress”.

    *In February, the university chose to do away with race-based admissions policy.*”

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2013/04/05/controversial-uct-survey-says-black-people-are-unattractive

    Now there we have some positive progress towards building a nonracial South Africa. Tribute to cde Neville Alexander – may his soul rest in peace, the battle may still be won.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    The cops are exactly like the rest of the state employees the ANC have deployed

    Polisielid in arres ná kind geskiet is

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Polisielid-in-arres-na-kind-geskiet-is-20130409

  • Truth

    The first problem arises because why would you want to know which race is the most attractive? What gives you the idea that there is a most attractive race. Secondly if you asked me that question the answer you will be likely to get would be more of who I would want to have sex with not necessarily date or marry and that would be informed by who have I not had sex with as for most man is about numbers.
    Thirdly, the race of the person conducting the interview and the race of the person being interviewed also mattered. Fourthly (if it was a white girl interviewing a black boy, what do you think would be the answer? And do you think the answer would be the same if it was a white boy interviewing a black boy?) , the gender of both the interviewer and the interviewee also mattered. Lastly, the preconceptions of the interviewer would also play a very important role: there is a cliché that says a survey will show you what you want to see hence the author uses the phrase “quite unsurprisingly”.
    If the author could have interviewed likes of Theunis Crous, the results would also have been different as he once famously stated that as a young man if he had a black girl friend, that was seen as a symbol of status.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Hey, Gwebecimele, what happened to the MoU signed last December?

    How could it possibly get feet?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Truth
    April 9, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Good post.

    “Lastly, the preconceptions of the interviewer would also play a very important role: there is a cliché that says a survey will show you what you want to see hence the author uses the phrase “quite unsurprisingly”.”

    That is probably why she arbitrarily invented new “races”. ie. “coloured” versus “biracial” and “Indian” versus “East-Asian”. So as to split/divide the “Black vote” and thus obfuscate the real result that seems to repudiate the necessary ideological conclusion:

    “the results seem to confirm that the ideology of white superiority is still so firmly entrenched among at least some students of all races in South Africa.”

    PdV – product of Apartheid thinking and the “multi racial” mindset so deeply ingrained.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Dmwangi – WDYSTT?

    “There is this idea that being gay is an ‘unAfrican’ phenomenon, that homosexuality is something to be ashamed of – that it is a Western thing. Thabo and I wanted to go against this notion by showing South Africans that being gay is indeed African and is very much a part of the African culture. We wanted people to know that a gay union can be accepted and celebrated by friends, family and the broader community,” he says.

    http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-04-09-my-big-fat-gay-zulu-wedding/#.UWPi-EoVF8F

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    April 9, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Maggs. Leave poor dmwangi alone to fight his own battles.

    Rather tell us what are the key differences between the Indian and “East-Asian” and the Gupta races. I’m little confused.

    And the Arabs and Muslims and Jews – where do they fit in?

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    April 9, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Hayibo OB,

    “I’m little confused.”

    Somebody lied to you!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    April 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Maggs. Perhaps I’m a lot confused. What would you say would be the key difference between a “coloured (culturally)” and a “biracial”. Would it have anything to do with the language, the amount of front teeth left or the FAS?

  • http://n/a Tebz

    I am a proud married black(married to a black woman). When I was at Varsity (UCT) I must admit, I was curious about sex with a white girl. When I learned it is still the same, that was it, my attraction and curiosity just vanished. As for getting married, I always knew I would love to marry a black woman like me and I felt, it would be less complicated for all involved even though at some stage, I had a white girl that I really loved.

  • Zoo Keeper

    According to the Professor’s thought process, blacks who like whites are victims of white supremacy.

    [Like white supremacists really want their women being nabbed by black dudes??????????]

    But does that mean a white going for a black is a victim of black power?

    Or is it always a factor that if a black person is involved, it MUST be a white supremacist plot????? Shame, in terms of the Professors thought process, black people cannot think for themselves, someone must have done it for them – usually a WHITE SUPREMACIST! :O :)

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Some might argue Pierre is an instrument of the kleptocratic elite trying to misdirect our attention from the HRC going gunning for Sunette Bridges or the refusal of medical parole – again – for Clive Derby-Lewis.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Tebz
    April 9, 2013 at 13:32 pm

    Tebz,

    “When I learned it is still the same”

    It must have been a Dmwangi-type university at which you learned such an astounding lesson.

    Many will be impressed.

    Dworky, WDYS – are you impressed?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    No, Maggs, I am not impressed. Tebz, by his own admission, attended, not a “Dmwangi-type university,” but UCT. As Ozoneboy has noted, this is a RACIST institution, financed by Oppenheimer, and whose entire law curriculum has been reduced (thanks largely to PdV), to Critical Race Theory (“CRT”)!

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    April 9, 2013 at 14:41 pm

    Dworky,

    Eish – give credit where it’s due.

    That sex is no different with other races requires highly specialised learning.

    He’s just being modest by suggesting that he acquired that knowledge at the regular (but racist) UCT.

  • jan cronjé

    “This would be especially true if you realize that your notions of beauty or sexual attractiveness reflect the views of those who are culturally, politically and economically dominant. In other words, if you find white people more attractive than black people; if you find somebody of a different sex more attractive than somebody of the same sex; if you find rich people more attractive than poor people; if you find “butch” men more attractive than “effeminate” men or “effeminate” women more attractive than “butch” women; then maybe you need to ask yourself difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices”
    WTF????? So we’re not allowed to like what we want anymore?? You put this out there: “if you find someone of a different sex more attractive than someone of the same sex….then maybe you need to ask your self difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices” Well, i’m gonna put it to you: “if you find someone of the same sex more attractive than someone of a different sex…then maybe you need to ask yourself difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices….” i’m almost exclusively attracted to black women, it’s a preference…do i need to go check myself now?
    rubbish article. stick to matters constitutional

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    April 9, 2013 at 14:41 pm

    Dworky,

    “Tebz, by his own admission”

    Eish – you are such a liar!

    Tebz is not a he.

    Take note ” Tebz April 9, 2013 at 13:32 pm – I would love to marry a black woman like me

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    April 9, 2013 at 14:41 pm

    “No, Maggs, I am not impressed. Tebz, by his own admission, attended, not a “Dmwangi-type university,” but UCT. As Ozoneboy has noted, this is a RACIST institution, financed by Oppenheimer, and whose entire law curriculum has been reduced (thanks largely to PdV), to Critical Race Theory (“CRT”)!

    Thanks.”

    Thanks mfd. I could not have said it better. And it is therefore no surprise that this student is a product of UCT. In fact I feel very sorry for her, cause this is brainwashing of the worst kind, comparable to the fashionable racist dogmas (eugenics, social Darwinism) that were also imported from Europe/USA and become dominant at our universities during the forming years of Apartheid doctrine.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    jan cronjé
    April 9, 2013 at 15:16 pm

    “WTF????? So we’re not allowed to like what we want anymore?? You put this out there: “if you find someone of a different sex more attractive than someone of the same sex….then maybe you need to ask your self difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices” Well, i’m gonna put it to you: “if you find someone of the same sex more attractive than someone of a different sex…then maybe you need to ask yourself difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices….””

    I totally agree. But this is where we are heading, this is just the beginning of a totalitarian and radical re-engineering of every aspect of our society/our understanding of humanity along very rigid racial/gender/identity consciousness and the politics of “demographics” as formulated in the ANC’s NDR blueprint for our beloved country.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    And to come back to this fashionable obsession with “identity politics” at UCT

    “After his schooling, he proceeded to study B.A. theology at the University of Stellenbosch, which was still called the Victoria College at that stage. He was a brilliant student, but also a good allrounder that played rugby and tennis. He was also a member of a debating club as well as a hiking club and participated in theatre productions. In 1921 he graduated with honours (B.A.).

    He applied for admission to the Theology School. However, he was required to submit a reference from the minister of religion from his home town, Brandfort, on his suitability for such studies. Since the latter did not know him personally, but the university insisted that he should first recommend Verwoerd, the latter withdrew his application for admission. He then continued to study psychology and philosophy. He was awarded a master’s degree cum laude the next year. During this time he also served on the student’s council together with Betsie Schoombie, later his wife, and was its president in 1923. He completed his doctorate in 1924, also cum laude.

    Verwoerd was awarded two scholarships for further post-doctoral studies abroad – one by the Abe Bailey Trust to study at Oxford University, England, and another one to continue his studies in Germany. He opted for the latter, although it was not financially as generous, because he wanted to study under a number of famous German professors of the time. Verwoerd left for Germany in 1926 and proceeded to study psychology at the universities of Hamburg, Berlin and Leipzig each for one semester. In Hamburg he studied under prof. William Stern, in Berlin under prof. Wolfgang Köhler and prof. Lippmann, and in Leipzig under prof. Fellix Krüger. Most of these professors were not allowed to teach anymore once the Nazis came to power in 1933. Claims that Verwoerd studied eugenics during his German sojourn[2] and later based his apartheid policy on Nazi ideology,[3] are not borne out by his study records. Moreover, eugenics was usually taught at medical faculties. Prof Christoph Marx made out a conclusive case that Verwoerd kept a conspicuous distance from eugenic theories and racist social technologies, emphasising environmental influences rather than hereditary abilities.[4]

    Verwoerd’s fiancee, Betsie Schoombie, joined him in Germany and they were married in Hamburg on 7 January 1927. Later that year, he continued his studies in Britain and then proceeded to the United States of America. His lecture notes and memoranda at Stellenbosch University stressed that there were no biological differences between the big racial groups, and concluded that “this was not really a factor in the development of a higher social civilisation by the Caucasians.”[5]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hendrik_Verwoerd

  • Zoo Keeper

    When Seal married Heidi Klum I just knew it was a white supremacist plot to undermine his black power.

    Maybe now Seal has thrown off the yoke of white supremacy he can recapture his musical talents…

  • Zulani

    Sex is nice. Leave it like that. Check this out!!

    “VN berei moontlik voor vir Mandela se begrafnis”
    http://vaandel.co.za/gewone-publikasies/

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    So Clive Derby-Lewis – what really happened?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    And who does the ANC, so-called “oldest liberation movement on the African continent” blame for their very own chosen policy of “multi racialism” – wait for it folks … you guessed it … the White people.

    Fransman accused the DA of being silent on the issue.

    “The DA six months ago actively electioneered, with DA leader Helen Zille at the helm, to take control of the UCT SRC, of which Varsity is a mouthpiece. It is evident that the DA’s tactic is to deepen the divide between people along racial lines to create black gevaar (threat) aversion and take control,” Fransman said.

    One more time.

  • Chris

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

  • SkyLukeWater

    Caucasians have less bush… Of this I am certain…

  • SkyLukeWater

    … therefore, more attractive…

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Good thread for another global penis size survey.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/2012/10/02/the-hard-truth-about-penis-size-around-the-world

    Iceland 16.5
    Italy 15.7
    South Africa 15.2
    Sweden 14.9
    Greece 14.7

    Looks like we are wedged somewhere between Iceland and Greece.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    With respect, whether “Caucasians” have more or less “bush” has little to do with constitutional law, which is the raison de être of this blog. What I want to know why the JSC continues with the RACIST practice of nominating WHiTISTS like Willis J to the SCA — when we still have too many whites on the bench!

    Thanks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    maggs.

    Bad news – Guptas – 10.

  • Dmwangi

    @PdV:

    ““This would be especially true if you realize that your notions of beauty or sexual attractiveness reflect the views of those who are culturally, politically and economically dominant. In other words, if you find white people more attractive than black people; if you find somebody of a different sex more attractive than somebody of the same sex; if you find rich people more attractive than poor people; if you find “butch” men more attractive than “effeminate” men or “effeminate” women more attractive than “butch” women; then maybe you need to ask yourself difficult questions about your own internalized prejudices”’.

    Quite an interesting statement coming from PdV. The pink mafia is typically very adamant that sexual inclinations are the result of biological (or innate) factors. But if my genetic constitution determines my sexual attractions, why must I “critically reflect” on them? I bear no responsibility for my DNA. Hence, my sexual desires can be no more “internalized prejudices” than my biological preference not to starve.

    If, on the other hand, sexual attractions are socially and culturally conditioned, as PdV suggests, then one can ask “difficult questions about [them].” But then notice, that PdV agrees with Mugabe that homosexuality (or heterosexuality or any other sexual orientation) is the result of social, political, and cultural norms. In which case, it’s entirely conceivable that Mugabe is correct that there are no homosexuals in Zim and that homosexuality is entirely a product of foreign (Western) sociological arrangements. One could even take PdV’s conspiracy-laden logic a step further and question if homosexuality is not a function of Western patriarchy and its contempt for women. Perhaps he should also reflect on why he is not attracted (assuming he’s not) to other historically oppressed groups: the radically handicapped, the mentally disabled, geriatrics, the infirm, the lame, the dumb, Maggs, etc. It seems he has a lot of conscious-raising of his own to do before he spills any more banal homiletic ink.

  • Observer

    It seems it is the other way around dear professor – your sexual race preference has permeated your political thinking.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    I dunno but I’m thinking that our CJ has visited California recently.

    Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng interjected, saying appointing only experienced white men to the bench would set back transformation: “When then are we ever going to transform the judiciary, if we are committed to it?”

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/10/merit-must-trump-race-says-judge

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Make no mistake: Marikana and Bangui mark a turning point for South Africa. The Marikana massacre showed that this state is willing to mow down its own people. Bangui shows that this state is willing to shed the blood of other Africans and South Africans in uniform on the basis of an undefined national interest. Domestic and foreign policy are now unambiguously in harmony.

    Marikana and Bangui have put an end to the liberation narrative of “all shall be equal before the law” and striving for “world peace through negotiation and not war”. Zuma wishes to build a strong state anchored by the police, the military and the spy establishment. All the while, he and his ministers will drone on, repeating irrelevant liberation rhetoric to defend their actions.

    But South Africa is neither a parliamentary committee nor an ANC branch. Zuma and company have forgotten, if they ever really understood, that the real “heroes” of the fight for democracy were ordinary South Africans. And they won’t be so easy to shut up.

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2013/04/09/bangui-falls-off-national-key-points-wish-list

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Brett,

    Swimming pools don’t kill children..

    No wait – they do!

    About 175 children under the age of 10 died in 1998 as a result of guns. About two-thirds of those deaths were homicides. There are an estimated 200 million guns in the United States. Doing the math, there is roughly one child killed by guns for every one million guns.

    Thus, on average, if you both own a gun and have a swimming pool in the backyard, the swimming pool is about 100 times more likely to kill a child than the gun is.

    http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2001/07/27/levittpoolsvsguns/

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Maggs, I say it is meaningless to speak of so-called “merit”, as if it is a self-standing, neutral arbiter of worthiness. “Merit” is more of a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT that has been erected by the RACIST status quo to defend its very own vested interests!

    WDYSTT?

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Well argued, that man!

    Dmwangi says:
    April 10, 2013 at 0:09 am

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Maggs, I reject with contempt your scurrilous argument that as its main beneficiary CJ Moegoeng is hardly able to take an objective view of the whole transformation merit v race debate.

    Shame on you, Sir!

    Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    April 10, 2013 at 6:13 am

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    More tales of folly surrounding our Transfrontier National President:

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kalf-getref-ma-vlug-vergeefs-20130409

  • Mike

    @PDV – Well lets now have an article on Judge Clive Pasket’s replies/retort to the JSC questions on his suitablebly a white male for an appointment at the SCA.
    Vacancy’s that are left being filled simply because there were no black applicants to favour over a white candidate that had applied is rife throughout the goverment services.
    There is nothing like having a school teacher such as Gigaba in charge of the SOE’s instead of qualified engineers/ charted accountants for Eskom SAA Transnet etc.
    Who was the former CEO of SAA why of course a black women with a BA degree from Swaziland University.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    “Plasket, a [racist WHITE] human rights lawyer since the 1980s who defended many political detainees,”

    “Plasket’s comments follow a report penned by commissioner Izak Smuts accusing the JSC of interviewing white men only as a formality, with no intention of recommending them as judges.” “If the majority view is that . white male candidates are to be considered for appointment in only exceptional circumstances, the JSC should, at the very least, come clean and say so, so that white male candidates are not put through the charade of an interview before being rejected,” he wrote.

    Yes, dear Mr. Plasket, more or less the same in other industries and occupations too. Please stop wasting our time. Stop this charade of “nonracialism”, “equality” and “human rights” as well, let us come clean with each other and tell us what sort of non-future you want for us Whites before you would be satisfied with your fucking socalled “transformation”.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    April 10, 2013 at 7:00 am

    “Maggs, I say it is meaningless to speak of so-called “merit”, as if it is a self-standing, neutral arbiter of worthiness. “Merit” is more of a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT that has been erected by the RACIST status quo to defend its very own vested interests!”

    That is more or less the view of UCT/CRT/White liberal brainwashed types too. Until they start whining and bitching without end about “the corruption”, “cadre deployment”, “service delivery to the poor”, and so on and so forth. Until 34 mine workers are dead and their families devastated because our National Police Commissioner is a professional Black women who compares running our police force to the managing of a bottle store.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    judge Clive Plasket:

    “I realise that most of the questions that I faced today have had very little to do with my competence as a judge. They’ve been on other issues.”"

  • Mike

    @Ozone Blue – I am not interested in being told what non future I have as a white, I know what future I am entitiled to under the CODESA agreement and if the ANC is not going to honour agreements which resulted in the Constitution then goodbye constitution and we can fragment SA as we know it forever.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    That is exactly as I see it, Mike, except that I regard the murder of 68 000 white South Africans by black South Africans as more than substantive cause to resile from this non-agreement.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi
    April 10, 2013 at 0:09 am

    Hey DM,

    You sneaked in an insult against me in that long winded garble.

    It’s unkind.

    I’m such a nice guy.

    And everyone who reads the comments here will know that I don’t insult you, I don’t offend you, I don’t annoy you, I don’t poke you up, I don’t make you run to your wife complaining like a little cry-baby, I don’t humiliate you.

    Your assault on my good person is totally uncalled for.

    So what about a humble (ok – you cannot be humble but try) apology and we can share the UBUNTU.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Mike
    April 10, 2013 at 8:52 am

    “I am entitiled to under the CODESA agreement and if the ANC is not going to honour agreements which resulted in the Constitution then goodbye constitution and we can fragment SA as we know it forever.”

    I assume that is exactly why they *don’t want to say it* or discuss the long term implication for us explicitly. But if – as PdV pointed out on another entry Whites should only be appointed in “exceptional conditions”, until all the “demographics” are balanced and if this is policy applied consistently to all spheres of society, it means Whites should in general not be employed or even admitted for HE for the next 50-100 years.

    How come we still have Whites who do not comprehend or are unable to grasp the implication of the above is really worrying, to say the least. But it is time that they open their eyes and confront reality now.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    April 10, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Dworky – need I remind you that this is a family blog.

    Words like “self-standing”, “erected” should be avoided.

    Also words like “pricks”, “assholes” should not be implied as you have done in your post.

    What will the children think of our JSC if you continue unchecked?

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Of course, the other major substantive cause for resiling from this non-agreement without fault is the ANC’s prolonged very deliberate non-adherence to the rules we all agreed to be governed by.

    What we do not see from our country’s law faculties is something like a ‘Rule of Law Barometer’.

    The Hulley tapes, the unlawful presence in the CAR….All examples of the ANC thumbing their noses at the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

    When is Zuma going to Gazette Thulas’ Nkandla Inquiry?

    I cannot understand that the Opposition parties still add credibility tothis charade by remaining in Parliament. Perhaps they need employment very badly.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 10, 2013 at 9:10 am

    But the UCT visitation of race-based admissions policies are encouraging. It is not clear to me from Google what AA formula they replacing it with. One would have imagined PdV would have dedicated a blog entry to it by now.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Max and Pierre did not do that out of the kindness of their hearts. I do not even think it was the dawning realisation that they were part of indefensible injustice.

    They were battered and bruised by many encounters like these and confrontation day after day after day with the growing mountain of evidence of failure of AA and ‘transformation’.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    What no-one has raised and really should have is the internal displacement of these silly kids to whom this blog is dedicated.

    IMHO some of them lashed out big-time when this silly survey presented the opportunity.

    My irritation with them is that they will not form the phalanxes and openly contest what they perceive as wrong – they are passive-aggressive. Displace internally. Lashing out at soft targets because you are pissed off at Pierre and Max and the ANC and an accident of birth and can see the faces before you of the kids you grew up with who really desrve to be at UCT but are not because of the colour of their skin is understandable but not very nice.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 10, 2013 at 9:29 am

    “My irritation with them is that they will not form the phalanxes and openly contest what they perceive as wrong – they are passive-aggressive.”

    There are lots of folks who are afraid to speak up Brett. Being branded a racist (when you are anything but) is not entirely pleasant experience – in fact speaking up against “norms” and almost universally unchallenged liberal positions can be a career limiting move, the know this too well and that is why PdV for example always takes issue with us who prefer to post under pseudonyms. It is an insidious form of intimidation, they want to silence us with the threat of ostracization or even being fired from our jobs – at universities it is even worse remember the witch hunt against “racist academics”/”baboons” at UKZN.

    I take my hat off to judge Clive Plasket though.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    That is exactly the kind of witchhunt that the do-nothing HRC is pursuing against Sunette Bridges who is trying to collate the rate at which whites are being murdered.

    The do-nothing (but safe, if you are part of the ruling party) unspectacular careerist Lawrence Mushwana has found a way to get some public limelight (a la Barney Pityana another do-nothing HRC Commisioner like Haircut Kollapen).

    To any rational observer the first stop-off point to try and ascertain from reliable statistics at what rate members of a vulnerable minority are being murederd would be something callingitself a ‘human rights commission’?

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    What if these students were asked to consider “merit” based on your survey?

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/04/10/merit-must-trump-race-says-judge

  • Mike

    @Brett Nortje – it should also include rape. Buy the latest Finweek and read how a regular columnist Collette Symanowitz founder and MD of MBA Connect was attacked by two black men in their early twenties while walking down Katherine Street in Sandton.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    The “white woman”, Retha Harmse, was to be the first victim of a racist backlash in Dawn Park, Boksburg.

    Days after the assassination, the Harmses’ house was sold after they got death threats from rightwingers. Retha’s husband Daan said at the time: “I am angry. Retha did the right thing. She did what any normal person would do.”

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/hani-hani-come-dance-for-me-1.396182?ot=inmsa.ArticlePrintPageLayout.ot

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Clive’s wife, Gaye Derby-Lewis, who was also arrested and charged with Hani’s murder and then acquitted in 1993, laughed, then snapped over the phone: “I have absolutely nothing to say to you. Sorry about that.”

    Long-time lawyer for the liberation movement George Bizos says his dealings with her when he represented the Hani family at the TRC amnesty hearings were among the most unpleasant of his life.

    He “detests” her and will always suspect she knew more than she said. But he concludes that the two men were not authorised to carry out the hit. “They were guided by bigotry.”

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    And therein lie the seeds of our destruction….

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=368830&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    “Such a view would soon have collapsed under the overwhelming weight of demand from ANC cadres eager for government jobs both in the executive and the civil service, places for oneself, one’s family, one’s mistresses, lovers and friends. Looking back, one can see that this was the one true elemental demand and that not even God Almighty, much less Mandela or Hani, could have resisted that.”

  • Mike

    @Maggs Naidu – my understanding is that at the time of Chris Hani’s killing he still had political assasination squads reporting to him. WHY SO ?

  • Zoo Keeper

    Dmwangi

    I think you have just inflicted a crushing defeat on the Professor.

  • Mike

    @Maggs Naidu – and bye the way I detest the greek bigot George Bizos.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    April 10, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Mike,

    “WHY SO ?”

    I have no clue as to why that is your understanding – maybe it’s because of something you ate or last nights whiskey?

    Dmwangi may be able to explain!

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    April 10, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Hmmm!

    “@Maggs Naidu – and bye the way I detest the greek bigot George Bizos.”

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    April 10, 2013 at 10:51 am

    “What if these students were asked to consider “merit” based on your survey?”

    That is a nonsensical question because we know that merit can be relatively objectively assessed based on quality of work, exams and marks achieved.

    But perhaps that is why some of us don’t like the concept of merit when it comes to certain things. Rather we love to hide behind a universal victimhood mentality. But as Bob said – you can fool some people some time, but you can’t fool all the people all of the time.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    April 10, 2013 at 11:17 am

    ZooKy,

    Despite my usual amusement with Dm, he’s pretty spot on with the essence of his comment – Pierre does sound pretty confused (maybe a dose too many of OB?)

    But don’t let Dm know that!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    “At which point we enter the world of parallel universes. Clearly, what was not possible was for Hani to turn South Africa into a Communist state – this was merely a crude misunderstanding by Clive Derby-Lewis and Janusz Walus. The most that Hani could have done would have been to tilt South Africa towards a left-wing African nationalism, perhaps, indeed, little different from what we got anyway. What is more intriguing is that early on Hani was asked what he thought of his becoming Minister of Education. He replied sharply that any such ministry would be a bed of nails in which one would be administering a failed and failing enterprise. He felt the ANC should merely take over the SABC, the Presidency, the army, police and foreign affairs. This would amount to the crude “revolutionary seizure of state power” that MK had always called for.

    Such a view would soon have collapsed under the overwhelming weight of demand from ANC cadres eager for government jobs both in the executive and the civil service, places for oneself, one’s family, one’s mistresses, lovers and friends. Looking back, one can see that this was the one true elemental demand and that not even God Almighty, much less Mandela or Hani, could have resisted that.”

    Well put. But if Johnson is correct and there was a more balanced approach under Hani to redirecting the workings of the state machinery towards social upliftment instead of racial entitlement/destroying what was working and using it as a AA gravy train the picture we would have faced today in Gini coefficient etc. would look dramatically different. The middle class would have consisted of more Black entrepreneurs creating jobs and the poor would have had the advantage of a much more competent and efficient public service.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneguy and Dmwangi

    Our people are sick and tired of UNTRANSFORMED judges whose so-called “merit” inheres largely in their blinkered embrace of archaic positivism, know nothing of post-structural hermeneutics, and think of the arch-liberal Ronald Dworkin as a dangerous radical!

    Thanks very much.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Oooh! The rush of an arbitrary exercise of power over a white person! Even if she is 87….

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Bejaarde-87-moes-sing-vir-haar-pensioen-20130410

  • Zoo Keeper

    Dworky

    Have you noticed that Tiger Woods is world #1 again, but only AFTER hooking up with another blond white woman.

    It must be a white supremacist plot to ensure he only reaches the top if he has a white woman.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Piggybacking, as it were….

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    I read there was dagga plants found in the Presidential Guest House aka NKP!

    Termination of employment of members of the SANDF in Central African Republic

    10 April 2013

    President Jacob Zuma has in terms of Section 201 (2) (c) of the Constitution of the Republic, <b?terminated the employment of all members of the South African national Defence in the Central African Republic.

    The President has informed Parliament that the termination has been undertaken due to the fact that the security situation in the CAR has deteriorated and there is no longer a legitimate government.

    Enquiries: Mac Maharaj 079 879 2303

    Issued by: The Presidency

    Pretoria

    http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/pebble.asp?relid=15203

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Zuma said it was impossible to see complete change in just 20 years. The damage done by apartheid would be with the country for some time, he said.

    “To suggest we cannot blame apartheid for what is happening in our country now, I think is a mistake to say the least.

    “We don’t need to indicate what it is apartheid did. The fact that the country is two in one, you go to any city there is a beautiful part and squatters on the other side, this is not the making of democracy and we can’t stop blaming those who caused it,” said Zuma.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 10, 2013 at 15:04 pm

    Pork Looking Guy,

    “you go to any city there is a beautiful part and squatters on the other side”.

    Fok man, Zuma can look out of his R280 million, state sponsered, compound to see squatters and people struggling to get water let alone other basic services!

    He’s right though – apartheid has to be the cause of me having supported Zuma’s ascension to highest office.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs/Brett

    For whatever its worth, my Granny says that, if she knew then what she knows now, she would not have actively campaigned for Mr Zuma.

    WDYSTT?

  • Maggs Naidu

    Dworky,

    Tell your GRANNY that if she wants to live under a President-for-life then the border is not too far north!

  • Mike

    @MDF – Have you ever seen the play “Chilli Boy” . It is about a granny from Umkomaas that dies and gets re-incarnated as a Boksburg gangster whom I am sure would never vote for Zuma..

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Dmwangi – this oke sounds looney. Is he you?

    Hagrstrom: “I have a lot of love and respect for a whole number of homosexual friends, so there’s no homophobic issues going on here at all with me. My question is what’s the purpose of sex? …I’ll just speak to the bill. I’m gonna vote no on this bill, but it’s just for this reason. I don’t think that homosexual sex is necessarily not deviant. Deviant isn’t a bad word. Deviant simply means not normal. It’s not typical. I kind of liken it like this. This pen has two purposes. The first purpose is to write. The second purpose is to retract so that it doesn’t leave a stain on your shirt or your purse. So it has two purposes, but one is primary and the other is secondary. To me, sex is primarily purposed to produce people. That’s why we’re all here. Sex that doesn’t produce people is deviant. That doesn’t mean that it’s a problem. That just means that it’s not doing it’s primary purpose. So I’m just speaking to the bill so I encourage people to vote red. Thank you.”

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/man-who-wants-criminalize-homosexuality-has-gay-friends

  • Lisbeth

    Maggs:

    “Hey Dmwangi – this oke sounds looney. Is he you?”

    I say that’s impossible. Dmwangi just can’t help indulging his penchant for grandiloquence. He would have coughed up a thousand words and at least three paragraphs to say the same thing. That is, if he’d wanted to say the same thing, which I doubt.

  • Maggs Naidu – Brett looks like PORK! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Lisbeth
    April 10, 2013 at 18:26 pm

    OMG Lisbeth,

    “Dmwangi just can’t help indulging his penchant for grandiloquence”.

    Stop playing with DM – whatever he’s got seems contagious!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @MDF – Have you ever seen the play “Chilli Boy”?

    Yes, as a matter of fact, I saw it at the Spier Amipheatre. Although I enjoyed the performance, the fact is that CHILLIGRAN had little in common with mine, who hails from Srebrenica.

    Thanks

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    On this day respek to cde Hani though. I think if he was still around he would be taking up the arms again and this time the enemy would be Lonmin/ANC/BAE. And those ultra multiracial “liberals” at Oppenheimer’s UCT.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder April 10, 2013 at 18:46 pm

    Just remind us what race you are again. I have heard you are North-Eastern Caucasian. Why dont you do us all a favor and fuck off back there and go and TRANSFORM that place ?

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Wishful thinking.

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    The ‘transformed’ SAPS did the usual on this crime-scene….

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Moord-op-melkboer-2-vry-20130410

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    That which is “meritorious”, like that which is “beautiful,” (thanks UCT), reflects not a natural or inherent ordering but the mediated expression of encoded prejudices of the ruling classes. True, there are minimum requirements, like basic literacy. But “merit”in the sense of the ability to read and analyse lengthy, confusing texts ,and write positivist judgments using “reason” and “logic”, should not be part of the job description of a judge at this point in our history.

    Thanks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    @brett

    Just another executed [racist] White. Do you think anybody in here has any sympathy? It is just more “crime” you see.

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Gesig-in-haar-brein-gegraveer-20130408

    Everyday the bucket goes to the well. One day the bottom will drop out.

  • Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Only a white man can speak that language. [George Bizos] has hijacked the Mandela companies and he must resign,” Ayob said.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/bizos-hits-back-over-mandela-millions-1.1498544#.UWZkb0oVF8E

  • Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?

    Sjoe, Cde Maggs! “Only a white man can speak that language”, huh?

    Sounds like the kind of thing you would say.

    So that much-vaunted ‘non-racialism’ is a charade, huh?

  • Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje – 19 years of ANC rule! Is South Africa FUBAR?
    April 11, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Well PORK Guy,

    “Sounds like the kind of thing you would say.”

    Indeed!

    WHITE people stole all the land, now they are trying to steal Mandela’s hands.

    WDYSTT?

  • Maggs Naidu – ! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ozoneblue
    April 11, 2013 at 0:44 am

    OB,

    “Everyday the bucket goes to the well. One day the bottom will drop out.”

    Where will the bottom of the well drop to?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OzoneGuy

    ” I have heard you are North-Eastern Caucasian. Why dont you do us all a favor and fuck off back there and go and TRANSFORM that place ?”

    Slovenia has been almost completely TRANSFORMED thanks to the activism of Prof ZIZEK!

    Thanks,

  • John Roberts

    I wouldn’t take Pierre’s claptrap rant seriously. Zookeeper is right it has sweet fuckall to do with the frontal cortex. It’s how evolution works.

    Pierre gets offended by the white of people’s eyes.

  • Maggs Naidu – Cardinal Napier : “I don’t know any gays”! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)