Just show you how little you know. Seniors members of the ANC, including Zuma, started opposing Mbeki’s stance towards AIDs/Zimbabwe as early as 2001 – and started looking towards his deputy to replace him. Mbeki reacted like a typical African tyrant and the intense succession battle we have witnessed the past 7/8 years is a testimony to that. The fact is Lekota, mrs. Oilgate and friends are “disgruntled” because they backed Mbeki all the way against the wish of the people and like Mbeki have have lost democratic support, if they ever enjoyed much of it to start with. They are indeed “disgruntled” with the process and result of democracy.

That would be kind of ironic if Mandela himself won the statement of the year for 2007.

“Former president Nelson Mandela has praised Jacob Zuma, the new leader of the African National Congress (ANC), as a man who could unify the divided party. In a message of congratulations, Mandela said: “Our experience of Comrade Zuma is of a person and leader who is inclusive in his approach, a unifier and one who values reconciliation and collective leadership.” “We have no doubt that he will bring those well-known characteristics to his task of leading our organisation,” he was quoted as saying by the Saturday Star. Mandela urged the divided ANC to rally behind Zuma.” (www.mg.co.za/article/2007-12-23-mandela-says-zuma-can-heal-the-anc)

Makes you think doesn’t it. A character endorsement from the great Madiba himself even AFTER all the accusations of corruption and even being called a rapist in the media. Yet our armchair liberals who live inside the Internet bubble just can’t understand why the people love him ?

“It is a view I hold that COPE will indeed become an opposition party. I cannot tell the percentage it will garner in the imminent elections. I hope that it unseat the DA. I strongly believe that we could experience constructive oppositional politics which are not interspersed by racial disunity.

We seem to agree with COPE on many grounds except for their stance on AA, unreasoned proposition that the ANC had jettisoned the Freedom Charter, which I argue is asserted in fundamental provisions of the Constitution and our policy imperatives.”

I don’t read anything about disgruntled comrades now in COPE having already rejoined ANC in that passage. I also read about major disagreements between COPE and the ANC, which is good for democracy. However, if you have done yourself the trouble of reading all m previous posts in this regard, you would have seen that I am not a COPE member, neither am I a COPE supprter. I just think that the opposition that they WILL muster would be good for democracy in this country, where the support of the leading party’s views is not only based on sycophantism.

As far as Garg’s remark is concered, I did not think it prudent to go into the “holrug-geryde” Zuma thing again. However, if I see what kind of people were first high-up memers of the ANC (Oliphant), and who joined COPE (from which he will now be jettisoned thanks to the quick response of COPE to what has been uncovered as clearly immoral) with a view to try and get a better deal (not that he got one, he just received the status of an ‘ordinary’ member), I kind of cannot but help to wonder about the morals of the ANC as movement. Or is it the ANC leaders’ morals that one must worry about, not the movement’s?

On second thought, I am not revering your aforementioned hogwash with a response!

South Africans want the death penalty. I do not know where constitutional experts will be as we strive to convince society that the death penalty is not a detterent to pervasive criminality.

um I thought government was meant to obey the people of the Republic and not try convince us that it is wrong or think what is best for us. This is South Africa crime in south africa is rather out of control and some of the crime well lets just say is rather animalistic now isnt it? extrodanary crimes need extrodanary punishment? or extraodanary controls should be in place.

However the reason why the death penelty wont come back to south africa is rather simple – it has to be in accord with human rights, right? well leathal injection is rather costly and the death penelty would end up being a very costly affair and well if it came into place I highly doubt there would be alot of executions taking place anyway.

However my thought and solution and alternitive to the death penelty is – slavery hardcore slavery and best of all its free labour.

but the best solution really is provention is better than cure, so why is our crime out of control?

Since you are an ANC member and youth member you got a lot to answer for. Ish.

Ishmael

“We have conceded to the voice of society in this regard. The masses stood their ground and we flinched! We were simply defeated! ”

you make it sound like you are at war the people?? thought you were meant to be working for them not being defeated by them?

well just my thought but maybe thats just where the anc seems to be lossing the plot a bit hey?

“It is a view I hold that COPE will indeed become an opposition party. I cannot tell the percentage it will garner in the imminent elections. I hope that it unseat the DA. I strongly believe that we could experience constructive oppositional politics which are not interspersed by racial disunity.”

Lol then start with the ANC then the ANC is aimed at black people. ANC cant get passed a liberation front infact I would like to See the ANC adapt and target white people. Where as the DA is adapted and targeting not only white but black and infact if i was ANC i would be very worried at a DA and Cope coalition cos that will represent the south africa of today blending racial divids your ANC cant do that. The ANC is for black people thats not very south african now is it what about indian, chines, white, colored?

Spuy
“In fact, a day or so after Kgalema was elected president, I heared an obviously constitutionally empty white caller on SAFM asking why “Mr Zuma has not taken over from Mr M(a)beki SOMMER KLAAR seeing that 2009 is near!” He clearly had accepted by then that this(2009) would be a ZUMA year! …Goodboy! He accepted!”

lol man do i like your version of democracy. just accept yip no questions ask just follow like sheep. BAAAAaaa

ozoneblue
“I doubt very much if the circumstances are similar given that with Zuma there was no signs of violence, the alleged victim was a 31 year old women and the circumstantial evidence at the time seem to indicated that what transpired was in fact consensual sex.”

my man its about morals he has how many wivies? yet he still cant seem to keep his little Umshini Wami in his pants. He is a dirty old man!

mdu
“Mbeki was recalled for his mismanagement and is still an ANC member.”

You do relise he was recalled cos of “so called state abuse and political interfering” into Zuma and now you do release that the Ginwala report does vindicate Mbeki in which the NPA will use to challenge Chris Nicholson’s judgement and u do realise that the ANC Zuma camp is going to look rather stupid if this happens?

Mdu
“Anonymouse,listen to the voice of reason as espoused by Ishmael Malale, Cope is comprised of our disgruntled comrades”

Gee I wonder why ??

@vuyo
A free and democratic society is inter alia reflected by the (sometimes) ad nauseam free movement of individuals from one association/party, to another, to another, etc. Therefore the act of an individual joining COPE and then returning to the ANC should be of no more significance as their initial resignation from the ANC (i.e. in a true democracy). Therefore, individuals oughtn’t be feeling as though they have betrayed the Republic merely because of a vote against the ANC nor feel heinous because the vote was motivated by disgruntlement

thank you someone who actually gets it!!

Ozoneblue

im gonna call u blue 52 from now on i love this statement of urs “This is what I want to hear an ANC president saying, Zuma is sounding more and more like Mandela and less and less like Mbeki.”

this made me laugh honestly 2009 has just started and that has got to be the statement of the year so far Zuma is like Mandela wow that gave me such warm chills. Hey mandela how does it feel like to be compared to a slut?

The cope, admit it as we all know, was formed by ANC members who campaigned vigorously for Mbeki’s Third term and were defeated, to avert dictatorship, and Lekota who had vilified Zuma became disgruntled and was quiet due to embarrassment and disbelief, as his Chief was ousted, still pondering his next move,which is cope.

Mbeki was recalled for his mismanagement and is still an ANC member.

So cope was formed by greedy individuals who lost for betting for a wrong,toohless and powerless horse, don’t try to fool us, it only happened yesterday. You can only fool wishful thinkers like bigslipper,as his name suggests!

Hear hear good fellow, spot on – the ANC whines about people being “disgruntled” and “couldn’t get their way so they formed a new party”, but we wouldn’t be where we are today if people hadn’t got disgruntled back in the day…the ANC really seems to think that if they do something it must be right, but if somebody else not in the ANC does exactly the same thing they must be wrong.

@Ishmael, you seem to be a reasonable voice, although still slightly skewed against the facts in support of the ANC. I find it interesting how you openly admit that the ANC ignored the will of a community, but say that the ANC now realises its wrong. While everyone will make mistakes, and those mistakes should be submitted, do you not find it annoying, patronising and superfluous when the ANC only admits mistakes every 5 years, right before they have to ask people to forget all the unfulfilled promises and vote for them again?

NOW the ANC made a mistake with Khutsong, NOW JZ says we must get tough on crime (where was his voice when South Africans were told to stop “whinging” or we can leave the country?), NOW the HIV/AIDS crisis is acknowledged (where were these voices during the Mbeki years?).

I would accept the ANC saying it was wrong if it occasionally did it at times when it had nothing material to gain, like votes. However, when it is sheer electioneering, while I am happy for the people of Merafong, I am annoyed that the ANC is apologising in an apparent attempt purely to garner votes, and this sudden mobilisation even now is purely because they were suprised by COPE’s sudden showing.

Ugh.

ozoneblue // Jan 8, 2009 at 3:10 am
‘Mbeki could never sing’ – do you mean to the tune of the Zuma camp? And ‘generic songs about machine guns that are open to interpretation’ – may I ask how you interpret this song?