Constitutional Hill

“Does Zuma think money grows on trees”

President Jacob Zuma gave an emotional performance in Parliament this week when questioned about the R250 million renovation at his Nkandla compound. Confirming the existence of a bunker at his Nkandla home (and even quoting former President PW Botha), Zuma claimed that his family had paid for the entire cost of his Nkandla residence. The only problem is that this claim cannot be true. 

Zuma did not dispute the claim that almost R250 million of public funds were used for various buildings and renovations at his Nkandla home. Neither did he dispute the fact that the Ministerial Handbook does not allow security upgrades at the private residence of a public official (whether used as an official residence or not) for more than R100 000.

All the buildings and every room we use in that residence, was built by ourselves as family and not by government. I have never asked government to build a home for me, and it has not done so. Government did not build a home for me.

He said he was still paying off the bond for the five family buildings in the compound. What President Zuma did not say is that his family can hardly be said to have paid for the full cost of his Nkandla home. As judge Hillary Squires found when he convicted Schabir Shaik of fraud and corruption, several other sources initially bankrolled the Nkandla building project. Squires pointed out that in 2000, as a certain Mr. Malengret was undertaking work at Nkandla, payments to the builders:

came in odd sums and from odd sources. On 14 August 2000 two cheques drawn by a Nelspruit business, which turned out to be owned by Mrs Ngubane, and totalling R90 000, together with a cash payment in the sum of R10 000, was deposited into Malengret’s bank account. That was the first payment he received. On 4 October another cheque for R40 000, drawn by the same Nelspruit enterprise, and on 18 October some  unidentified person made a cash deposit of R50 000, again both being made into Malengret’s bank account. So by 5 October, when the next incident involving Shaik occurred, Malengret had done about R226 000 worth of construction, for which he had only received R140 000…

There is therefore a long history of others paying for building work at Nkandla. However, before he became President, the South African public never carried the cost for the various upgrades at Nkandla. In October of that year Shaik learnt of the Nkandla project from Zuma himself. Squires noted that back in 2000 Shaik seemed to have been dismayed, if not shocked, when informed about the cost of the Nkandla project (maybe that is the source of Shaik’s terminal illness), asking Malengret if “Zuma (thought) money grew on trees”. For President Zuma, so it seems, money has always grown on trees — other people’s trees.

Back in 2000, when no more money was paid to him for work done at Nkandla, Malengret ordered building at Nkandla to be stopped. As the arms deal inquiry gained steam and as arms companies began to squirm under the pressure, Mr. Vivian Reddy, a Durban-based businessman, who also seems to have taken on the task of advising Jacob Zuma about his financial affairs, lent Malengret R50 000 to enable him to continue with the Nkandla project. A bond financed part of the rest of the cost of the initial Nkandla building project.

But, as Squires found, part of the cost was paid by an entity called Development Africa, in which the first part of a R500 000 a year bribe from Thompson (the arms deal company) was deposited. Squires found that Thomson had corruptly offered (the offer having been communicated to Shaik) to give a bribe of R500 000 a year, which was not legally due, to Jacob Zuma (who was by then the Deputy President), with the understanding that Zuma would use his position as Deputy President to assist Thompson and protect it from exposure for its part in arms deal corruption.

As Zuma has managed to avoid standing trial for his involvement in this scandal, we do not know if there is enough evidence to convict him for being party to the bribe. In the event, Thompson only paid R250 000 of this money, into an entity called Development Africa, which eventually paid for part of the building of the Nkandla home.

Thompson, Reddy and Ngubane, who all contributed to the building of the original Nkandla compound, are not members of President Zuma’s family. President Zuma’s claim that his family carried the entire cost for the building of Nkandla can therefore not be true. In fact, part of the cost for the original Nkandla building came from an arms deal bribe.

Incidentally, judge Squires had found that Zuma had met Mr Alain Thetard, a representatives of Thompson, at a meeting where the bribe was discussed. Zuma had to give a secret code (given to him by Shaik) to signal his agreement with the bribe arrangement, which he duly did. In response to a Parliamentary question by Raenette Taljaard, Zuma told Parliament: “I did not meet Alain Thetard on 11 March 2000 in Durban or elsewhere.”

As Squires had found, Zuma had indeed met Alain Thetard – but on 10 March 2000, not on 11 March of that year. In his sworn affidavit to the Pretoria High Court in August 2003 (made during his application to secure Thetard’s encrypted fax which is said to prove he solicited a bribe from Thetard) Zuma claimed even more emphatically about this meeting with Thetard: “I have repeatedly stated that I did not attend any such meeting”. Zuma was never charged with perjury, which (if the Squires judgment is to be believed) he committed when he denied in a sworn statement that he had ever met Mr. Thetard.

It might well be that President Zuma was completely candid when he claimed this week that his family contributed to the cost of the latest Nkandla upgrade. Such a contribution could have come from his salary, from a bank loan or from donations made by benefactors hoping to gain some influence with the President of the ANC and the country. Unfortunately, we simply do not know what is true, as President Zuma has not provided any evidence to back up his claims. This uncertainty could easily be remedied if Zuma was prepared to take the country into his confidence by providing documentary proof of such payments.

In the absence of such proof (and in the light of the secrecy around the State’s R250 million contribution to the latest Nkandla upgrade), it is impossible to say whether the latest claim is true or whether its veracity is on par with his previous claims that he never attended a meeting with Thetard. What is certain is that neither President Zuma nor his family can be said to have carried the cost for all the building work at Nkandla.

There are still many unanswered questions about the latest Nkandla corruption scandal. If Zuma is indeed the President of the country, why did he not stop the R250 million “security upgrade” at his house? Can security officials order the President what to do and what not to do? Is he so weak or unprincipled that he is incapable or unwilling to do what is right and legal? How on earth is it possible to spend R250 million on “security upgrades” when that money could build at least two or three palaces with gold fittings and marble floors?

These questions could easily be answered. All that is needed is for the Government to stop hiding behind a draconian piece of apartheid era security legislation, called the National Key Points Act. It would then be able to provide us with the exact breakdown of cost contributed by taxpayers to the Nkandla home and what it was spent on. Given the fact that we already know that money was used to build a bunker, install bulletproof windows, a lift and air conditioning as well as a gym, an astro-turf soccer pitch a hospital and two helicopter pads, there is no conceivable reason not to reveal how much we had paid for these luxuries. We already know what “security” measures were taken; we just do not know how much of our money (which could have been used to build new school libraries or pay for essential health care facilities) was wasted on each item.

Even if security was indeed a concern (which is a ludicrous claim), no one has ever been able to show how security could be compromised by revealing how much South Africans paid for all these “security upgrades”, which we already know exist. Unless, of course, what is being protected is not the security of the President and his family, but rather the ever-diminishing reputation of the President and the political party he fronts – if not leads.

  • Brett Nortje

    Lindiwe spanked him nicely.

  • Brett Nortje

    Ooops! Apologies, Cde Blade!

  • http://Telkom Sharon Brin

    So appreciate your posting.

  • Brett Nortje

    Bwahahaha!

    “Squires noted that back in 2000 Shaik seemed to have been dismayed, if not shocked, when informed about the cost of the Nkandla project (maybe that is the source of Shaik’s terminal illness)”

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    I wonder, if some of the work was paid for by the Zuma family, how much came from the Aurora Powerment Systems plundering of the mines at Grootvlei and Orkney.

  • SA Citizen

    I’m still confused why the other presidents private homes are not questioned about security upgrades. Mandela’s house was upgraded to the tune of R25M around 1995-7. Same upgrades in today’s money will be more than R100M. Are we being consistent in our criticism or is out critisism driven by something else? Inconsistent critisism loses legitimacy.

  • Brett Nortje

    One has to feel for LaNkosiNostra. Other people building on their property without their knowledge has obviously reached epidemic proportions.

    Remember Nathi’s wall?

  • Zoo Keeper

    The cost of the construction is one thing, what are the maintenance costs and who is carrying those. I’ll bet its the taxpayer…

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    SA Citizen
    November 15, 2012 at 20:43 pm

    Hey SA Citizen,

    “Mandela’s house was upgraded to the tune of R25M around 1995-7.”

    Maybe.

    But it was not with State resources, was it?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 15, 2012 at 20:42 pm

    Right-Wing-Guy,

    You and others who are insulting our President beware.

    Comrade Minister Blade has warned that some Black people are getting fed up with WHITE racism.

    Soon the SACP are renting a crowd of 1000s to march on Zuma’s Nkandla residence to show support.

    Eish – I forgot what point I was trying to make.

    Oh, I remember – Comrade Minister Blade and other right-wing-guys are gonna draft a law preventing people from insulting our president.

    In other words stop telling the truth about our president.

  • SA Citizen

    @ maggs: Yes it was state money.

  • Mpho

    Two questions: how could the Zuma’s get a Bond for the work if the land is owned by a Trust? Secondly, surely declaring a private residence a National Key Point when it isn’t is ultra vires and can be set aside. Shouldn’t that be where the battle should be fought? I can’t believe the Courts would assist with this abuse. They would surely narrowly interpret National Key Point.

  • Blue Ozone

    Isn’t it just bizarre.

    How a “constitutional expert” would totally ignore news such as [mostly white minority] opposition calls for the South African Defence Force to intervene in suppressing a [black] farm workers revolt and how he would focus obsessively on the imaginary excesses of the democratically elected [black] “left-leaning” president of the new South Africa.

  • Blue Ozone

    Mpho
    November 15, 2012 at 22:00 pm

    Hi Mpho. I assume you are not posting under an African sounding BEE friendly handle and never bit the hand that feeds. Or are you just another servant posting from Leeuwenhof?

  • faan

    Why is Zuma not frank and forthcoming about the homestead issue?
    After all, isnt he supposed to be our country’s ceo?
    Another thing, what has apartheid and race have to do with the issue?
    Have we ever in our country’s history ever seen such abuse of public money and self-enrichment by a politician?

  • Blue Ozone

    So lets step away from the usual bullshit Apartheid propaganda emanating from this blog.

    “Five issues to tackle

    Cosatu provincial secretary Tony Ehrenreich listed five issues that needed to be tackled before there was a resolution.

    The first was that politicians had to stop “grand-standing” and start working together on a solution.

    The second and third were both applicable to farm employer body Agri SA.

    “The Agri SA must take its head out of the sand and stop undermining the workers’ desire to join a union. Agri SA must add their voice to the national call for an urgent increase in the minimum wages.”

    Ehrenreich said the fourth point was for government to speed up the convening of a negotiations forum for the minimum wage.

    Lastly, he said workers had to organise themselves by joining unions which represented their grievances.”

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Zille-must-work-with-ministers-Zuma-20121115

  • faan

    @SABC – may we refer to the nkandla homestead as the nkandla kraal?

  • Beetle

    Farmer du Toit of Ceres has just had all his tractors torched. He voluntarily pays his employees R19/per hour.

    I’m curious – do police no longer conduct preventative policing??
    If the shrieking dancing rabble threaten to dig up roads, burn farms [and are seen to be carrying the matches/ petrol/ tyres and other means and intentions of destruction], why are such persons not arrested?

  • faan

    @SABC – may we refer to prez’s house as the nkandlakraal?

  • Blue Ozone

    Cosatu:

    “The Agri SA must take its head out of the sand and stop undermining the workers’ desire to join a union. Agri SA must add their voice to the national call for an urgent increase in the minimum wages.”

    Solidariteit:

    ” But if there are cases where black farm workers are exploited or where paternalistic or colonial labour practices are still in existence, these practices are inexcusable and we must criticise them just as strongly as we fight the exploitation of and unfair practices against our own members.”

    And fuck the dop system. Once and for all.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Blue Ozone

    “How a “constitutional expert” would totally ignore news such as [mostly white minority] opposition calls for the South African Defence Force to intervene in suppressing a [black] farm workers revolt”

    Ozoneboy is right. Liberal white media colludes with Zille to focus of President Zuma’s generous upgrade of service delivery in Nkandla. Why? To distract our people from massacres of peacable grape-pickers in Western Zillestan. I just don’t get it!

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 15, 2012 at 21:53 pm

    Perhaps. But I’m insulting Parliament this time, not Zuma.
    And perhaps I’m not 100% pure White, perhaps I have some slave genes as well.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 16, 2012 at 5:27 am

    Right-Wing-Guy,

    “And perhaps I’m not 100% pure White, perhaps I have some slave genes as well.”

    Ok, you’re safe from the wrath of Comrade Minister Dr Blade.

    Everyone else, watch it dudes – me and Right-Wing-Guy and Dr Blade (i.e. Black guys) are gonna be pissed off if you mess with our president.

    No more jokes about Zuma whipping out his dongle faster than Chuck Norris blinks. Or remarks about Zuma being corrupt (no wait that one is ok it’s not a joke). Pah – you know what you should not be saying …

  • LM Swan

    @Fassbinder
    ” Liberal white media colludes with Zille to focus of President Zuma’s generous upgrade of service delivery in Nkandla. Why? To distract our people from massacres of peacable grape-pickers in Western Zillestan. I just don’t get it!”

    Funny, I thought it was the other way round. A counter attack against Zille for being uppity and tresspassing on his kraal.

    It also pays to look around and see what else is going on. Everyone forgotten about the “secrecy bill”? eToll “discussions? How about a little diversion in the only well run province in the country to make sure they do.

    Another thing. Apart from the ongoing maintenance that someone has already mentioned, what happens to the state assets on Nkandla property once Zuma is no longer president? Perhaps we, the taxpayers, can donate those to him as a once off settlement in lieu of the retirement package usually offered to ex presidents. A cheaper option in the long run I think.

  • Paul Kearney

    well I suppose the uprising in Zillestan comes at a good time to provide a distraction to Zooma compound interest (pardon the play on words; sorry Mac). After a few weeks of press reports Zooma suddenly waking up to the fact he has a “bond” it’s all family money. Yeah right; he’s not that slow; or is he?

    As for the de Doorns Troubles and Joe Ma Petersen’s rabid rantings. Surely only less people employed will be the result? Not good for SA.

  • Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 15, 2012 at 23:50 pm

    This is about the 3/4 post about Nkandla on this blog. In another thread he implied that there is enough evidence to approach the courts with. But noooo, he wouldn’t do that and one would imagine the opposition would jump onto such an opportunity.

    So instead he just repeats over and over untested assertions such as “unlawful splurge of public funds on the renovation of President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead” – a version of what happened that has been debunked by the minister of Public Works accompanied by a full explanation of how the funds was applied.

    So – this is called manufacturing propaganda, it is feverish in its desperation because it is attempting to derail the general socio-economic direction as shaped and formulated by ANC “left-leaning” allies i.e. resource nationalism, developmental state, pay cuts for the elite, etc. as I have explained PdV types benefited most from Apartheid and would do anything in their power to prevent real redress – even stir a racial conflict if it would help.

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go! says:
    November 16, 2012 at 6:32 am

    No Maggs, count me out. You and Comrade Minister Dr Blade are on your own. You see, in the old days Master Cloete often sought the company of the slave girls when he felt lonely, and it left me with enough white genes to enjoy the Zuma jokes even more than the Chuck Norris jokes.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 16, 2012 at 8:52 am

    Right-Wing-Guy,

    “No Maggs, count me out. You and Comrade Minister Dr Blade are on your own.”

    RACIST!

    You and all the other WHITE people must go back to India to be with 1.298765389 billion other coolies!

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 16, 2012 at 9:01 am

    It looks like the most greedy, capitalistic, racist, nationalist rightwing forces ever to drop out of the ANC calling themsleves the “FYL” now also channels the same propaganda manufactured by the very same Apartheid beneficiaries like the DA and Pierre De Vos.

    What a fucking surprise! Won’t you say.

    http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Nkandla-a-private-development-20121114

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go! says:
    November 16, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Can I just go back to Java please?

  • Zoo Keeper

    Mpho

    It would not be possible for Zuma to receive a bond on those houses. He has no right to the land which can be mortgaged. If he has a signed long lease (99 years), he may have something, but how valuable is that land? Its in the middle of nowhere and is not productive. Even if he could raise a bond, he wouldn’t be able to raise enough to pay for even one house.

    Zuma is in thick and he knows it. The Nkandla locals obviously know it too, that’s probably why the ANC had to bus people in to stop Zille, because the locals wouldn’t have stood up for him! :)

    Besides, have you ever wondered why the land is in a trust?

  • Blue Ozone

    And bit more of that “let those poor black people take a shit in open air toilets it is better than taking a crap in the bush” DA style racism.

    “But opposition politicians have seized their chance to hammer Zuma’s credibility as a former Zulu herd boy still in touch with ordinary people. Lindiwe Mazibuko, parliamentary leader of the Democratic Alliance (DA), said: “The DA has learnt that thousands of people living on the outskirts of Nkandla, in villages like Babanango, Kataza and Ebizimali, are still without the most basic services. Yet 2bn rand will be spent on a multi-purpose centre a few kilometres away from President Zuma’s homestead.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/jacob-zuma-investigation-plans-home

  • Blue Ozone

    Did it ever occur to that black kugel that such multi-purpose centre serves as the developmental axis to the surrounding rural areas.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-08-03-00-taxpayers-will-have-to-pick-up-r1-bn-tab-for-zumaville

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    the problem with your “developmental axis” is that Nkandla is in the middle of nowhere with no industry of any description. Its tribal land with subsistence farming and nothing else, so its likely its R2bn wasted in a hopeless white elephant.

  • Brett Nortje

    Zoo Keeper says:
    November 16, 2012 at 9:59 am

    That is why I hope the first Private Members Bill we see post Ambrosini will be to give rural people on communal land ownership – kaart en transport – of the land they live on.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 16, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Right-Wing-Guy,

    “Can I just go back to Java please?”

    No – but you can go to the #NkandlaCompound to be with David Cameron and other WHITE people in the underground bunker!!!

  • Blue Ozone

    Zoo Keeper
    November 16, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Your post and your racist attitude toward rural black people says it all.

    How can any sane human being have a problem with any of this:

    “Government documents refer to it as an “emerging town”, but covering 200 hectares, which could comfortably accommodate 10 000 middle-class homes, that may be selling it short.

    The envisaged project includes:
    Government facilities, including offices for home affairs and social development;
    New community facilities, includ­ing a library, theatre and ­recreation centre;
    A new school with boarding facilities;
    A community safety centre and additions to an existing clinic;
    A recreation centre featuring a swimming pool and tennis courts;
    Light industrial units, including an agricultural market; and
    Housing centred around community gardens.

    The construction would transform what is a dusty backwater with basic government buildings scattered among isolated rural homesteads into tree-lined avenues and covered walkways connecting modern, architect-designed buildings.”

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go! says:
    November 16, 2012 at 6:32 am

    “Ok, you’re safe from the wrath of Comrade Minister Dr Blade.”

    Cde Blade can go fukk himself if he thinks he is going to force Hlonipa down my throat. Is he a communist or a ruralitarian tribalist? I have asked this many times and never got an answer: Does Hlonipha require that one objectively should be worthy of respect or does it simply hold that I bliksem my wife for walking next to me because I can get away with it?

  • Brett Nortje

    Everyone here has read Evelyn Waugh’s Black Mischief, I trust?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Brett Nortje
    November 16, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Hayibo,

    “I bliksem my wife for walking next to me because I can get away with it?”

    Rumour has it that your wife klaps you – is it true?

  • Blue Ozone

    Brett Nortje
    November 16, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Blade Nzimande is a big racist doos and is also fucking up our education system. He represents everything that is wrong with the “left-leaning”. The sooner the SACP/ANC gets rid of the poison dwarf the better for all of us.

  • John Roberts

    Surely some of the money must have come from the jumbo Khulubuse Zuma who raped and pillaged the Pamodzi gold mining company and put 6000 black miners out of work and sent acid water pouring into Joburgs water table.

    Let’s face it these people are cunts.

  • Howard Klaaste

    I never knew JZ was a liar! I only thought he had bastard children and was on the receiving end of a bribe.

  • Tumi

    Some brave soul should lay a complaint of money laundering against JZ. Shabir Schaik was convicted of fraud and it has been proven that he gave money to JZ

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    Economics dude. Nothing against the development of rural folk, but it must be accompanied by concrete efforts to uplift them so their economic input equals and surpasses the infrastructure development.

    There is very little if no private property ownership in Nkandla, its a feudal existence for the majority. The locals cannot unlock their wealth and uplift themselves, thus creating a wealthy agricultural hub.

    Without concrete efforts to change their lives, it will end up like most of the pretty tree-lined colonial towns up north.

    I want to see real development, not band-aid rubbish.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    I saw on the news there is some sort of inquiry going on into the CFR – what’s happening?

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 16, 2012 at 10:27 am

    Hey OzoneTwit,

    “The construction would transform what is a dusty backwater with basic government buildings scattered among isolated rural homesteads into tree-lined avenues and covered walkways connecting modern, architect-designed buildings”.

    It the most outrageously fucking stupid plan!

    If Zuma had a modicum of sense he would have had this nonsense stopped at conception.

    Instead all he’s got to say for himself constantly is “I don’t know anything about that. It’s not my job. It wasn’t me. It was someone else”

    He’s the goddam President of Africa’s economic powerhouse dammit.

    What a fucking doos he’s turning out to be!!!!!!!!

  • Gwebecimele

    Is this a R1 MILLION get out of jail ticket?

    Malatsi you are on your own.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2004-11-08-count-agusta-link-probed-in-palazzolo-hearing

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 16, 2012 at 14:46 pm

    Don’t get so angry maggs. If you want to live in a country where the rural poor is for ever trapped in a cycle of abject poverty I suggest you move back to India. It is time now that “transformation” means more than a professional blacks getting to play off a 1000 handicap forever.

    This perpetual navel gazing from the whining black middle class is rather quite annoying.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 16, 2012 at 16:06 pm

    Hey OzoneBoy,

    “I suggest you move back to India” – at risk of offending Prof MO – go tell your granny!

    The notion of Nkandla City is the most brazen act of “fuck the citizens” that has emerged to date.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 16, 2012 at 16:15 pm

    What – are you worried that if we uplift the rural poor there will be no more cheap labor to slave labour in your mines? So you can get a nice education to your “affirmed” kids at UCT, live in a nice air conditioned house behind security gates next to the WHITE people you pretend to hate so much?

  • Blue Ozone

    “It is also common for the same politicians to launch racially charged attacks on so-called white capital while accepting back-handers in the form of lucrative business opportunities from the same purported enemy. They use their proximity to power in the ruling party and the state as a lever to gain access to these opportunities, while fooling the public into believing they are in a war on behalf of the poorer classes. In short, the convergence point of political, business and social interest of the elite is nothing more than a marketplace in which influences get traded for personal gain under the guise of social consensus. This situation is unsustainable and needs to change if this country is to achieve the level of the cohesion required to make great strides in social, scientific and economic development.”

    Zongezo Zibi in Business Day

    True. Time is up for BEE, time to note there are almost 3 million black people who drive cars, buy computers and can afford DSTV. Time now to plough back into the people, give much more than you can take.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    November 16, 2012 at 16:22 pm

    Hey WHITE Boy,

    “next to the WHITE people you pretend to hate so much”.

    Whatever makes you think I hate WHITE people?

    Some of my best friends are WHITE people – am I a racist?

    I do ” live in a nice air conditioned house behind security gates” – are you jealous?

    Not in Potch though!

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    I would rather we have a robust debate as a nation like we did a year ago about the Protection of State Information Bill instead of talking about Nkandla. I would rather we have a barney about e-tolling than messing around about The Spear, or listening to the SACP telling us how we should treat the office of the president with dignity.

    What the SACP fails to say is that the occupant first needs to treat the office with the dignity it deserves. You give the office dignity, it doesn’t give you dignity. Dignity is not given, it is earned. Mandela earned it. And yes, I will compare Zuma to Mandela. Why should we set the bar low? We are not that kind of people. We are not that kind of country. If we are to be a leading nation in the world, we have to set ourselves impossible standards, not impossibly low ones.

    Why should a powerful man already protected by many laws and a security detail need to have his feelings protected? Why should his rights be over and above those of yours and mine?

    I want to have confidence in Zuma. I have prayed and I have even burned impepho. I want to help him get us to reach for the stars but he has not made me believe. I want to be led but there is no vision.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-15-is-jacob-zuma-south-africas-george-w-bush

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Eish – the bullshit never ends!

    Zuma told Parliament that in the spirit of making a statement against inequality, as proposed by his recent social dialogue, the Cabinet had committed to a salary freeze for the next 12 months for ministers and deputy ministers.

    He said that the Forum of South African Directors General had in turn endorsed the call for a salary freeze for directors general.

    “We now await the processes of consultation within the private ­sector regarding its executive salaries,” he said.

    But sources have told the M&G that senior government managers have rejected Zuma’s call to freeze their salaries.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-16-00-no-consensus-on-officials-salary-freeze

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    November 16, 2012 at 17:26 pm

    “I do ” live in a nice air conditioned house behind security gates” – are you jealous?

    Not in Potch though!”

    True enough.

    So you do understand, besides for me driving a Volkswagen Golf and being laughed upon by the “chattering classes”, my revolutionary rage.

  • Blue Ozone

    Potch. Koos de la Rey and FW. both “men of their times”.

    The Land of the Free planting vegetables on our sideworks.

    http://www.citypress.co.za/SouthAfrica/Features/Potch-gets-pimped-20121112

  • Blue Ozone

    Die Dieper Reg.

    “Toe my voorvaders teen Silkaats,
    Dingaan en die Britte staan
    het hulle aan geen roem
    of heldedaad gedink
    terwyl spiese en geweerlope
    in die oggend son blink

    en was hulle oë slegs op U gerig
    en met die Bybel in die hand
    wou hulle heidene tot U bekeer
    en afdrukke maak in hierdie land,

    maar op ‘n manier
    is my mense deur barbare
    en geldgieriges vermoor,
    is die Goddelike roeping verloor
    en het oorlewing in hulle siele ingedring
    om wette vir eie beskerming in te bring.

    Tog het ons, in ons eenvoudigheid
    nog by U probeer bly
    en nou vra ek dat ons eiendom
    nie afgeneem word,
    vir die onderdrukking om te wyk
    sodat die son oor ons ook skyn
    en ons ook ‘n lewe kan hê

    en as hulle wat in die hoogste gestoeltes sit
    ons nog steeds wil ontsê
    van die dieper reg wat ons toekom,
    U nie wil eer en ons verder vertrap
    en probeer indoktrineer
    noop dit my om te vra:

    dat U die besem loslaat
    wat U profeet voorspel het
    en hierdie kontinent van ent tot ent
    skoon vee en aan ons redding gee.”

    NP van Wyk Louw

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “What a fucking doos [Zuma’s] turning out to be!!!!!!!!”

    You may be right, Maggs. But as I was telling my granny just the other day: in the same circumstances, I would support Mr Zuma again!

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 16, 2012 at 23:43 pm

    Dworky,

    “But as I was telling my granny just the other day: in the same circumstances, I would support Mr Zuma again!”

    In which case, in the same circumstances you would be as peeved as I am now!

    p.s. You’re lying about your granny. Everyone knows you get advice from your duck, Matilda!

  • Blue Ozone

    Good. The plan is again kicking into GEAR.

    But that is not what we need or require right now.

    http://apf.org.za/spip.php?article29

  • ewald

    Thorougly enjoyed prof’s participation on SAFM Friday morning. Blade is not as sharp as his name might suggest.

  • mswazi

    Constitutionally speaking, you don’t accuse someone and seek proof from them, but then again can we call you an expert?

  • Blue Ozone

    ewald
    November 17, 2012 at 2:37 am

    What you mean he’s bit dof. “Comrade” Blade is one of my favourite comedians.

    http://www.iafrica.com/assets/13/1829/201533/993370.JPEG

  • Blue Ozone

    It is really so unfortunate that blacks cannot buy “I benefited from Apartheid” T-shirts. Even when some of them aught to.

    Tokyo’s tax cuts Absa BEE benefit

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-16-00-tokyos-tax-cuts-absa-bee-benefit

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    LOL! You’re right, those T-shirts should be worn by the ANC NEC – seems they have benefited the most!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Money must be growing on trees – it does not come from a bond it seems.

    There is no bond on President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead, as the president claimed in Parliament this week.

    City Press can reveal that no bond is registered against the Zuma family’s property, titled portion 27 of reserve 19 of farm number 15 839, Nkandla.

    This after an emotional Zuma told Parliament on Thursday: “I took the decision to expand my home and I built my home with more rondavels, more than once. And I fenced my home. And I engaged the bank and I’m still paying a bond on my first phase of my home.”

    http://www.citypress.co.za/Politics/News/Zuma-has-no-bond-20121117

    And so our nation and the world has been lied to.

    Again!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 18, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Interesting.
    Have you read the Times today?
    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Paper-wins-right-to-run-Zuma-story-20121118

  • joeslis

    @ Chris (Not the right wing guy):

    “Have you read the Times today?”

    Are we supposed to get excited now, or will SFA happen?

    What happened to the right wing guy?

    Was there ever a right wing guy?

    What’s wrong with being a right-wing guy?

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Maggs

    This one too will pass.

  • mayimele

    @Maggs
    There is no bond on President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead, as the president claimed in Parliament this week.
    ————-
    Hopefully you are not one of this “clever people” who write things on newspapers (and blogs) who is now attaching a “white man’s” interpretation of a ‘bond’ in order to impose a “white man’s” charges against our president in order to achieve the objectives of a “white man’s” justice. Such act is considered an insult to the president and the office of the president. Remember, this is South Africa in Africa, not Europe.

    Be careful, cde Blade is watching.

  • joeslis

    @ mayimele:

    Would you be so kind as to outline the difference between a “white man’s” and a “black man’s” bond?

    Would one be correct in assuming that a “black man’s” bond is something that doesn’t exist?

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    joeslis
    November 18, 2012 at 18:16 pm

    Yes joeslis, there was a right wing guy.
    One day some AWB member started posting under my name.
    He disappeared without a trace.
    What is wrong with him is that he used my name to post his racist rants.
    Whether you get excited is entirely up to you.

  • faan

    Mayimela. You and zuma are using tech developed by the whiteman; you are enjoying amenities created by the whiteman and even literary skills made possible by the whiteman. Youare no longer living in a kraal wena

  • mayimele

    @joeslis

    Well, Joeslis, you are not far off the mark. It seems to me the interpretation of the word ‘bond’ in terms of the `black man’s’ perspective refers to when a president of the country’s Nkandla homestead is questionable financed by the following family members of the President:

    – Shabir Shaik
    – the arms deal bribe
    – a Durban businessman, vivian reddy
    – a Mpumalanga businesswoman, Mrs Ngubane
    – department of agriculture and fisheries under the guise of funding the Masibambane Rural Development for (Nkandla) rural development purposes
    – the government in terms of the Ministerial Handbook
    – the department of public works in terms of the National Key Points Act

    And this list of the president’s family members may grow bigger as time goes on and new evidence of the wherewithal of the Nkandlagate come to the fore.

  • Beetle

    Mayimele.
    If you are rethinking white: Don’t forget to rethink braids and weaves, and chuck the Blackberry.
    And inside toilets and running water.
    Back to crapping in the veld, my Bro

  • Blue Ozone

    mayimele
    November 18, 2012 at 18:42 pm

    However Sectional Title Ownership is far from being a foreign concept in South Africa, in fact it is almost the norm, and does not necessary imply “individual” ownership of the land itself.

  • mayimele

    @Beetle

    Well, only you ‘intellectuals’ like Mbeki see and believe in all these bad things as we black Africans from Nkandla led by our self-taught cultural president engage in a process of righting the “white man’s” wrongs of the past. In terms of the black man’s (who follow and accept to be led by our cultural president) thinking and view of things, which happens to non-systematic and non-intellectual, we neither see nor hear contradictions. In fact the word contradiction never exists in our vocabulary.

    That is why we do not like whites but when times are tough we call for the Kemp J kemps of this world for assistance. We do not like intellectuals like Mbeki but we continue his policies in government. We do not like “white man’s” justice but we like white man’s lifestyle, hence, the installation of lifts at Nkandla and not wood-made ladders; air conditions and not create holes in our rondavels for ventilation, a gymnasium and stick-fighting yard, helicopter pad and not a kraal for cattle etc.

    We also hate capitalism but want R500 000 in black bags. So, we hear what you are saying but we do not want you to tell us about it and we choose not to realise the consequences of continuing this African path. We have also learned that that clever guy called Jonny Steinberg also wrote things on the Sunday Times to the effect that our president and comrade leader’s denouncement of white man’s culture will make the past leaders of the ANC like Dube, Xuma, turn in their graves including Thabo Mbeki who anchored their education from Europe and other non-African universities, because they embraced other non-African cultures. For such people, the passing of the ‘insults’ legislation will deal with them.

  • mayimele

    @ Blue Ozone

    You see, that is one of the reason we prefer to view and do things the African and sometimes traditional way. By so doing, we do not have problem with whether or not the land of our ancestors is ‘title deeded’ or not. We are able to get the Nkandlagate project funded by an Africa family as described above without any hussle of title deeds, zoning, value of the land and collateral nonses issues. And we think this is the way to go for all the black South Africans in the country if we are to fatsrack racial and economic transformation, land redistribution and total democratisation of South Africa.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    mayimele
    November 18, 2012 at 18:42 pm

    Hayibo Mayimele – LMAO!!!!!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 18, 2012 at 18:06 pm

    Yeah Right-Wing-Guy saw that – “interestinger and interestinger” as Alice said.

    Gwebecimele
    November 18, 2012 at 18:18 pm

    Gwebs – JR is like Nostradamus, ne!

    mayimele
    November 18, 2012 at 21:06 pm

    hahahaha – seems that the nuances have gone over the heads of many.

    #ProfessionalBlack Loyiso – move over, there’s a new kid on the block! :P

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (Not the right wing guy)
    November 18, 2012 at 18:06 pm

    Right-Wing-Guy,

    It’s ironic, isn’t it, that Zuma tried to prevent publication on the basis that the “information was unlawfully obtained”.

    His memory re #SpyTapes is selectively short!

  • Blue Ozone

    mayimele
    November 18, 2012 at 21:25 pm

    I do not disagree with anything you said above. However, I guess the issue we are discussing here is whether Zuma lied when he said he took out a “bond” on his home. According to the trustee managers they know nothing about a “bond was taken out on trust land property”, however my logic tells me that it is possible to obtain a loan to build a private house on communal property without necessarily registering a bond in the traditional sense of the word.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 18, 2012 at 21:46 pm

    Hey OzoneBoy,

    “my logic tells me that it is possible to obtain a loan”

    Firstly you say “loan” – fair enough.

    Are you suggesting that His Excellency President Professor Doctor Reverend Pastor Zuma does not understand the difference between a bond and a loan?

    Next you say “my logic” – do explain what “logic” you have!

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 18, 2012 at 21:53 pm

    “Are you suggesting that His Excellency President Professor Doctor Reverend Pastor Zuma does not understand the difference between a bond and a loan?”

    Very likely. Remember he never lived a privileged white bourgeois life under Apartheid where he got to study law or economics at Stellenbosch for example (while he was at the same time vehemently opposed to Apartheid). The only kind of “bond” you could get on Robben Island was probably when they handcuffed you to the prison cell bars as they fed you pap and water in the iron bowls for supper.

  • mayimele

    @ Blue Ozone,

    On a serious note, I think your assertion might or might not be correct, and that is if we attach or not attach the real or technical meanings of the words “bond” and “loan”. And that is Maggs is alluding to above.

    The president used the word “bond” meaning we have to attach to it the real and technical definition as used by the banks – because I believe he can only take a bond with a recognised financial / banking institution. And since the land on which his homestead is built belongs to the Ingonyama Trust, then he should have followed the due process as explained by the Trust’s official and the Trust must be aware of it. But as things stand, as per today’s City Press article, one of the following may have the case, that:

    – it is incorrect that he took the bond,
    – the bond he took, if any, is not with a recognised bank, and therefore
    – the word “bond” he used does not refer to the one used by the bank with its common technical definition,
    – if it is in line with the one used by the banks, then he may not have taken it in the name of the Nkandla project,
    – if he took it in the name of the Nkandla project, then he did not follow procedures since the Trust knows nothing about it and it was not involved.

    So, the only option left is that of a “loan”. Meaning, he may have referred to a bond instead of a loan. With regards to this option, anything is possible. The procedures followed in granting a loan are less stringent than giving someone a bond. If this is the case, then the president needs to clarify it. He can as well request his able spokesperson, Mac Maharaj to spin it for him and with supporting documents in order to regain the credibility that he lost since the surfacing of this Nkandlagatescandal.

  • mayimele

    And that is Maggs is alluding to above – meant to say that is what Magga is alluding to above.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    MAGGS: WHAT WILL HAPPEN NOW? WILL ANYONE IN PARTICULAR GET “FUCKED”?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    mayimele
    November 18, 2012 at 22:48 pm

    Hey M,

    “The president used the word “bond” meaning …”

    Zuma said BOND and he meant BOND.

    Everyone knows what a bond means.

    Zuma knows.

    Malema knows

    Even OzoneBoy knows.

    If he’s not sure he can find out from the many, many #CleverProfessionalBlacks who he has in support.

    Or he can ask the many #Whites who saved his ass from jail but whose ways with law he does not subscribe to.

    As far as I see it, the man is an unashamed liar!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 19, 2012 at 6:09 am

    Dworky,

    “WILL ANYONE IN PARTICULAR GET “FUCKED”?”

    JR will tell us.

    But the poor, deserving, most vulnerable in our society (who have been sacrificed to put WHITE mans’ lifts and helipad and underground bunkers in and around the COMPOUND) are already fucked anyway – so no change there!

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 6:44 am

    I don’t know much about economics maggs. Remember I’m a socialist.

    I also hate accounting (and lawyers) and have a book keeper doing my taxes because such bland trivia simply bores me to death. But I do feel we should give our prez the benefit of the doubt.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 6:46 am

    What you say about the overwhelming deafening silence from our media and hordes of “political commentators’ and “constitutional experts” regarding the DA’s call for the SANDF to be used to squash political unrest in the Western Cape?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 7:33 am

    Hey Blue Boy,

    If you don’t know what a BOND is, then you ought not be offering your interpretations as to what President Professor Zuma meant!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Well spotted Blue Boy.

    It’s much like at the @Zapiro book launch at the Bioscope in Johannesburg – the dude went to great lengths to explain to the audience why he “had to” do cartoons of Madame Zille when she really, really stretched it.

    Some, it seems, are more equal than others!

  • Blue Ozone

    So my original (and yet unanswered question) remains:

    How do we expect accountability, impartiality and transparency from our criminal justice system so as to inspire confidence in our people when our top NPA officials and even a “constitutional expert” show total contempt for the “abuse of process” doctrine that is apparently a totally foreign [Western] concept to our law?

    “He criticises the prosecution boss for relying “heavily” on the “abuse of process” doctrine in the UK and Canadian law, without any reference to SA law. “We are concerned that this doctrine may have been inappropriately applied without due consideration of its applicability in our law.”

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/11/18/exposed-how-zuma-got-off-the-hook-1

    E-mails also reveal that after being briefed about the “spy tapes” Mpshe repeatedly tried to reach McCarthy at the World Bank, where he now works as vice-president of integrity, to get him to answer the charges of being part of a political conspiracy.

    “It would appear, on the face of it, that the recorded conversations may damage your integrity,” Mpshe wrote in one e-mail. “They include that you may have been party to a conspiracy to use the NPA’s prosecution process irregularly to attempt to influence politics.”

    McCarthy eventually replied that he deemed Mpshe’s questions “irrelevant” and declined to answer them.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 8:23 am

    So you can’t really blame Blade and Vavi if they suffer from “delusions” and paranoia regarding the political bias of the “liberal media” when it is so blatantly obvious. Not true?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Blue Boy,

    I don’t see Vavi as delusional – the guy is well balanced and pretty reasonable.

    Blade on the other hand strikes me as MAD!

    That the DA is the DA does not change the abuse by the ANC leaders.

    Nelson Mandela: “If the ANC government does to you what the apartheid government did to you, then you must do to the ANC government what you did to the apartheid government”.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151174897508802&set=a.403623638801.179811.138429488801&type=1&theater

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    The taped conversations we read about in the media are about the timing of the indictment. There is nothing on the substance of the charges and manufacturing of evidence that could give the conspiracy argument real credence.

    Charging Zuma before or after Polokwane is one thing, making up charges is another.

    Shaik went through three courts and admitted he bribed JZ in the CC in his fight against asset forfeiture.

    It is strongly arguable that those tapes would have had no impact on the case and it would have gone ahead. Of course, it would have been after a trial within a trial and appeals process, so we’d probably still be waiting for the trial proper to start!

    Isn’t Mpshe a judge now?

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    I find the call for the SANDF to be involved in the WC a serious problem.

    What are the legal limits of SANDF deployment?

  • Blue Ozone

    Zoo Keeper
    November 19, 2012 at 8:39 am

    “Shaik went through three courts and admitted he bribed JZ in the CC in his fight against asset forfeiture. ”

    That to me means nothing. As Willem the truth Heath pointed out, if the NPA had a case against Zuma why didn’t they put him on trail way, way back then? As the hawks are doing now with JM. It is also clear McCarthy/Ngcuka were out to nail Zuma, surely if they had the evidence they would have charged him in 2003 already.

  • Blue Ozone

    Zoo Keeper
    November 19, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Why don’t you ask our resident “constitutional expert”. Oh, I forget he is too obsessed with Jacob Zuma to really have time for anything else.

  • Brett Nortje

    Hi Zookeeper

    I saw the report on ENuus – the Black Gunowners Association moaning that there has been no progress at all in the Minister of Police’s inquiry into corruption in the granting of gun licences by the Central Firearms Register.
    Total inaction, as usual, it appears.

    Here’s even better news:

    Remember CFR ‘Head’ Brigadier Jaco Bothma’s threats of 15 year sentences for the owners of licenced guns who did not hand them in for destruction, or – the implication was the chances of success were highly unlikely – relicence them?

    Remember there were no compensation guidelines in place because the cops quite simply refused to draft compensation guidelines when all those registered firearms (600 000, I hear) were handed in by elderly white South Africans who had never used them to commit crime ?
    The SAPS guideline was: There is no compensation finish and klaar?

    Remember Minister for Safety and Security Charles Nqakula telling Parliament he refused to pay compensation in terms of S134-137 of the Fireams Control Act for firearms ‘voluntarily surrendered’?

    Convict Jackie Selebi’s statement to Parliament that he refused to comply with S134-137 of the Fireams Control Act by paying compensation for ‘surrendered’ firearms because people would want to pay their rent with the money?

    Remember the Judgement of the Deputy Judge President for the Western Cape High Court in the Justice Alliance case?

    The Court ORDER read as follows:

    1. It is declared that the failure to establish guidelines as contemplated by section 137(5) of the Firearms Control Act No 60 of 2000 (“the Firearms Control Act”) is unlawful and inconsistent with the Constitution;
    2. The Minister of Police is ordered to establish guidelines as contemplated by section 137(5) of the Firearms Control Act within 90 days of this order and to inform this Court by way of an affidavit by the Minister within 120 days of this order that he has done so; and
    3. The Minister of Police is to pay the Applicants’ costs of suit, which costs are to include the costs attendant upon the employment of two counsel.

    The Appeal will be heard 22nd November.

    When the Minister of Police was in default in rolling out compensation in a manner that would satisfy the prescriptions of the Constitution and was dragged to Court to have the Order explained to him AGAIN, in simple language, there was an inexplicable upset: Judge Vincent Saldanha heard the second case and appeared to overrule his Deputy Judge President.

    This non-existent compensation scheme, Saldanha held, did not amount to arbitrary deprivation of property by virtue of its deliberate non-existence for the purposes of S25 of the Constitution.

    Judge Saldanha mentioned but did not follow the structure of analysis in First National Bank nor the algorithm he could easily have found in de Waal and Currie and followed. If he had applied the deprivation to the algorithm in FNB he could not possibly find that the deprivation was consistent with S25(1) of the Constitution.

    Judge Saldanha accepted SAPS assurances that “there was neither any obligation nor were firearm owners compelled to hand their firearms over to the state to dispose of by way of destruction”….completely ignoring the SAPS’ massive campaign in all the media threatening 15 years imprisonment for any of the elderly who did not ‘voluntary surrender’ their registered firearms.

    Judge Saldanha waxed on at length about ‘the dictionary meaning of voluntary surrender’ without ever coming to the realisation that ‘voluntary’ and ‘surrender’ are oxymorons according to the same dictionary, and proceeded to hold that the acceptance of voluntarily surrendered firearms by the police without compensation was lawful without referring once to the fact that Deputy Judge President Traverso had already ruled that the state’s conduct in the compensation case had been unlawful and unconstitutional.

    Must say I’m a bit conflicted about the outcome on the 22nd – if this massive and organised violation of the constitutional rights of gunowners does not get aired before the Constitutional Court do you think anything would have been learned from it?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Blue Boy,

    “if the NPA had a case against Zuma why didn’t they put him on trail way, way back then? As the hawks are doing now with JM. It is also clear McCarthy/Ngcuka were out to nail Zuma, surely if they had the evidence they would have charged him in 2003 already.”

    Of course the NPA were/are playing politics.

    And the intelligence services were/are playing politics.

    Those are separate matters entirely.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Zoo Keeper
    November 19, 2012 at 8:40 am

    ZooKy,

    “I find the call for the SANDF to be involved in the WC a serious problem.”

    The SANDF should be deployed to control the #EconomicRefugees and #ProfessionalBlacks.

    They’ll probably do a lot better than the SAPS.

    When last did the SANDF kill anyone, let alone South African people?

    Zille’s call is probably based on her understanding that not much of the military hardware of the SANDF is functioning! :P

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 9:09 am

    “Of course the NPA were/are playing politics.

    And the intelligence services were/are playing politics.”

    But I still don’t get what the “game” was. Why charge Zuma in “the court of public opinion” and attempt to trash his political future when you can actually charge him in a properly constituted court of law and thus end his political career?

    Unless. of course, you lacked the evidence to put him away.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Blue Boy,

    My sense is that those in authority misunderstood the limits of their own power.

    They simply felt that they could do as they please once they felt that they were “on the right side of the law”.

    As society adjusts to functioning in a constitutional democracy we’ll see less and less of this kind of nonsense.

    And with the outrage over the current administration’s excesses and abuses, those in the corridors of power will become increasingly aware of where the lines are!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Blue Ozone is right.

    Mr Zuma said many times over that he wanted his day in court. In fact, he DEMANDED the opportunity to demonstrate his innocence once and for all!

    It is disgraceful therefore that Kemp Kemp went behind his own client’s back to postpone the trial for year after year, by pulling every procedural delaying trick in the book, and finally persuaded the NPA, using subtle pressure, to drop the charges!

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 19, 2012 at 9:32 am

    Dworky,

    “It is disgraceful therefore that Kemp Kemp went behind his own client’s back to postpone the trial for year after year, by pulling every procedural delaying trick in the book, and finally persuaded the NPA, using subtle pressure, to drop the charges!”

    Well Zuma did allude to his disdain for Kemp-squared’s devious ways with the laws.

    That is why he wants African justice, not White man’s justice.

    And he complained about lawyers who use technical thingies.

    And more!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Ozone, perhaps you have not noticed that for months now I have been demanding that the liberal media say something about the MARIKANE that is building in the Western Cape, all because The Madam refuses to pay hard working farm boys. Now she calls in the SANDF to do her dirty work for her! I say that the Madam must sort out her own troubles in her own back yard. It is, after all, her liberal policies that have turned the Western Cape into the Guantanamo of Africa!

  • Zoo Keeper

    Thanks Brett

    And what about the status of the interdict by the SA Hunters?

    And the appeal on Saldanha’s order – surely that must have been heard by now?

  • Zoo Keeper

    Maggs

    LOL! The SANDF have probably sold all their guns to local gangs years ago :)

  • Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 19, 2012 at 9:32 am

    I understand now mfd. In Africa when you play by the rules of law and follow the correct procedures then that is like an admission of guilt?

    Interesting concept, I have noted that our “constitutional expert” agreed many times and in fact endorsed the same pov.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    Sorry, didn’t see the date there!

    Good luck on Thursday

  • Brett Nortje

    The Appeal of Saldanha’s Order is what is being heard Thursday.

    Curious matter, the interdict by the SA Hunters, ZooKeeper?

    The police appear to be very happy as long as it stays out of the ConCourt.
    The guys applying for gun licences appear to be very happy, their licences are now taking a couple of weeks, like they did before the FCA was enacted.

    Small beer, the hundreds of thousands of people whose constitutional rights were violated. Only Sandy Staats’ family remember Sandy Staats who was tortured to death by home-invaders who would not believe that she ‘voluntarily surrendered’ her firearm to the cops after they found a bullet in a drawer.

    No-one cares about the implications for the Rule of Law, letting a temporary interdict stand for years.

  • Brett Nortje

    Soory, did not see yours last!

  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    So the cops have let a temporary interdict stand for the last 2 years? An interdict which keeps the green licenses valid?

    Hmmm, could be a very handy fact for you if the fight starts again later.

    So the SA Hunters have an arrangement with SAPS so their members get their licenses in due time, unlike everyone else?

    So if I buy myself a 1911 and join the hunters I’ll get my license in a couple of weeks, but if I don’t join the hunters it could be months.

    Whilst its good to see the licenses being processed quickly, by the looks of it, the hunters are given preferential treatment which might be a big problem from an administration of justice point of view.

    In any event – you mustn’t lose sight of your bigger picture. If the hunters have gotten through, jump on their backs and go for it.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    So Professor Zuma says “And I engaged the bank and I’m still paying a bond on my first phase of my home.”

    So Vivian Reddy says Zuma is a liar!

    “I’m very close to Nkandla. I lent the president the money to pay for the first phase and he paid it back. Now he has taken a new bond,” Reddy told The Mercury on Sunday.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/i-lent-zuma-money-for-nkandla-reddy-1.1425914#.UKn8wGdq18E

    So Mac Maharaj – who is telling the truth????

  • Blue Ozone

    “He said Zuma should be commended for still living in Nkandla when he could be living in the plushest areas in the country. ”

    Exactly. But such is the hypocrisy and the contempt for the rural poor amongst the professional blacks and the chattering classes.

    And it is going to cost them cause cde Zuma, the people’s prez, is on a roll.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Potato, potatoe – so which is it?

    “Thus a bond is a form of loan or IOU: the holder of the bond is the lender (creditor), the issuer of the bond is the borrower (debtor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_%28finance%29

    I call it scraping the bottom of the barrel when all else is lost.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Blue Boy,

    Reddy’s comment is one of the most daft that I’ve come across.

    Even more so than yours usually are.

    Whether Zuma chooses to live in the deepest of untamed Africa or the moon is entirely up to him.

    The state putting in triple bullet proof windows, lifts, underground bunkers, helipad, squash courts, sauna rooms and the like is THEFT!

    Do note that there’s absolutely no talk of a LIBRARY or READING-ROOM – perhaps the security experts think that Zuma can’t read????

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 19, 2012 at 11:50 am

    This is the real obnoxious racism maggs. Your/PdVs thinly veiled contempt for Africa and its masses of rural poor. That is why PdV went to study in USA and not in Russia, because the racist ideology is the same.

  • Chris (not the right wing guy!)

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go! says:
    November 19, 2012 at 11:50 am
    “Even more so than yours usually are.”

    Maggs, do you really think that is possible?

  • Gwebecimele

    New National Party does not believe in “Terminal Illneses” LETS HOPE THEY COME AROUND FOR A VISIT.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/11/19/malatsi-begins-serving-prison-term

  • Lisbeth

    mayimele
    Novewmber 18, 2012 at 19:51 pm

    Forget the Ministerial Handbook.

    We now have – ta-daaaa – the PRESIDENTIAL HANDBOOK!

    http://www.madamandeve.co.za/week_of_cartns.php

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 19, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Hey Blue Boy,

    “Potato, potatoe – so which is it?”

    Are you suggesting that both Zuma and Reddy are not telling the truth?

    Or are you saying that are they both lying?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Chris (not the right wing guy!)
    November 19, 2012 at 13:22 pm

    LOL Right-Wing-Guy

    “Maggs, do you really think that is possible?”

    Reading Reddy’s comments – it’s very close!

    “He said Zuma should be commended for still living in Nkandla when he could be living in the plushest areas in the country. ”

  • Lisbeth

    @ Maggs:

    Zuma said: “I took the decision to expand my home and I built my home with more rondavels, more than once. And I fenced my home. And I engaged the bank and I’m still paying a bond on the first phase of my home.”

  • Zoo Keeper

    Lisbeth

    he says he is paying a bond “on the first phase of my home.”

    Maybe he is telling the truth and he is paying a bond.

    So did he address the second phase or not is the question?

  • Brett Nortje

    Yes, timely reminder since we do not know whether it is Zuma or Hulley trying to be clever.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    Zuma is the client so he instructs Hulley. Zuma is in charge not Hulley, so it is not Hulley refusing, it is Zuma instructing Hulley to refuse.

    A lawyer cannot act unilaterally.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    November 19, 2012 at 16:21 pm

    ZooKy,

    “Maybe he is telling the truth and he is paying a bond [on the first phase of his home].”

    In which case Reddy is lying!

  • Gwebecimele