Just received the following press release from the Presidency:
Statement on the resignation of members of Cabinet and Deputy Ministers
President Thabo Mbeki has, to date, received letters of resignation from the following members of Cabinet which, regretfully, he has had to accept:
1. Deputy President
2. Minister of Defence
3. Minister of Finance
4. Minister in the Presidency, Dr. Essop Pahad
5. Minister of Intelligence
6. Minister of Correctional Services
7. Minister of Public Enterprises
8. Minister of Science and Technology
9. Minister of Public Works
10. Minister of Provincial and Local Government
11. Minister of Public Service and Administration
The following Deputy Ministers have also tendered their resignations:
1. Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Aziz Pahad
2. Deputy Minister of Finance and
3. Deputy Minister of Correctional Services
The resignations will be effective from the day that the President’s resignation takes effect. All the Ministers have expressed their availability to assist the incoming administration in the hand-over process and any other assistance that might be sought from them. President Mbeki thanked the Deputy President, the Ministers and the Deputy Ministers for their dedicated service to the nation and wished them well in their future endeavours.
This means a third of the cabinet is gone. The new President will now have to appoint new ministers from among the members of the National Assembly and will have to do so sooner rather than later.
For me these resignation suggests that the new ANC leadership has some serious problems on its hands. While they specifically requested Ministers to stay on, elevn have now decided to resign. This suggests that the unity of which Gwede Mantashe spoke on Saturday is a long way off. I cannot but wonder whether this might not suggest that there are some truth to the rumours about discussions among some cabinet Ministers to form a new political party.
Whatever happens, Gwede Mantashe and Jacob Zuma must be rather upset by these new developments as it creates the impression of an ANC leadership not in control of its members.
They can still go back on Thursday, if the ANC asks them to.
Is this not procedural, rather than a rebellion. Remember the president appoints the Cabinet. Would a new president not appoint his/her own cabinet?
OK, I must be reaaaaaly stupid, but this looks to me like a counter coup or some such thing, I take this as a vote of no confidence in the current ANC Pres? not to mention the manner in which this whole debacle was handled by the ANC.
There goes the Rand I guess.
Wait something is missing
MINISTER OF HEALTH.
I guess there is still more coming.
Oh no dont expect the Minister of Health to resign, she probably has deputy president as her next stop, I guess she will fit right in.
Tell you the truth, a new political party is what I would like to see, sonner rather than later. This might yet be a good thing.
What happens to people who work for these ministers, &
those who are in posts outside of SA?
A friend of mine just told me that the next batch of resignations will be Director Generals and their deputies. This government seems to be coming to a stop.
Umshini Wami! will echo in the empty passages.
ANC = African National Circus
This is a time for the opposition to unite under the leadership of Mbeki and take advantage of this political turmoil to be worthy adversaries to the ANC next year…or at least even if under the Presidency of Helen Zille or a compromise president from amongst themselves… Interesting times…
THIS IS NOT THE SURPRISE, LET ALL THE ANTI-REVOLUTIONISTS GO!
THEY NOT EXPERTS IN ANY EVENT.
LET THE PEOPLE RUN THE COUNTRY.
So long as Zapiro doesn’t resign…
Lindelani – do the anti-revolutionists have names? do you have a definition for an South African anti-revolutionist?
and how do I get to run the country exactly, or should I just pack my bags and move into Thabo’s office.
A protest at the way Mbeki has been treated? Or is the moral voice from Tutu a prophecy?
Maybe it is time to run to Maputo or Houghton to ask one old madala to intervene.
How I wish this had happened exactly like this…but in Zimbabwe to Mugabe and Zanu PF.
Lindelani, I doubt Trevor was useless, health minister maybe/probably
There’s no school of presidency.
Anyone with natural leadership qualities can do so.
Their move shows and evidence the fact that they have already grouped themselves.
They contempt the ANC these ministers were diployed the ANC. It shows that they were not fulfillling the parties obligations, but they had their own personal agendas to fulfil.
The thruth comes out.
Khosi
“They can still go back on Thursday, if the ANC asks them to.”
True, but how do you think the current leaders feel about them doing this, after having asked them to stay. They would not have endeared themselves to the new leadership. But many of them were on their way out anyway, up for replacement by the new guard next year, so maybe it is just facing the reality of their future.
Trevor hasn’t resigned.
It proofs how uninformed people are.
You believe and act on everything story you hear from the news papers- don’t forget these newspapers are directed by South African who cast their votes at the end of the day.
Fact: Trevor Manuel hasn’t resigned. He only resigned from the Mbeki’s group, he’s willing to serve under the new prosperious government.
Lindelani – what do party members do when the disagree with internal decisions and policies?
They don’t
Sandra,
they follow and exhaust the appropriate internal complaints procedures in place.
Surely, ANC has those in place. hope I answer your st####d question.
This is Africa! This is normal to Africa. The next press release will state that the members in parliament started to attack each other with bricks and pipes and forces each other to drink OMO soap powder, like they used to do before. They will do it, it is in their genes to do such things. Even if you put lipstick on a pig, the pig stays a pig.
Oh this is so exciting! Sorry everyone, I know we should be making intelligent comment or feeling a little trepidacious, but I just can’t wait for the next instalment. South African State politics (and judiciary and legislature) are the most entertaining in the world!
Mpho
I agree!!!
This does not affect the aNC at all ,they will just elect a new cabinet under the new president whether or not that particular individual fits the profile or not. Its a good opportunity for the opposition to unite yes, but as zuma said the aNC will lead SA till Jesus comes back.
Lindelani
It was a statement by the presidency not the media:
http://www.thepresidency.gov.za/showc.asp?type=pr&include=president/pr/2008/pr09231250.htm&ID=1418
And you’ll notice the minister of finance in that list.
If this is true, it spells disaster for the country. if I interprete the press release correct it says “the ministers have expressed their availability to assist the incoming administration in the HAND OVER process and any other assistance that might be sought from them” To me this does not unequivocally express availabilty for re-appointment. I suppose if these ministers were available for re-appointment they would have expressed as such in the press release. That’s my interpretation people…
Andrea Becker,
You just the racist fool!
Then go live in Europe what do you want here, you settlers.
What do you know about Africa?
I think someone should start a bribe Zuma fund where people from around the country contribute and the money goes into the fund until it is big enough that Zuma takes it and leaves the country.
This is disgusting.
… and the greatest political opportunist of them all, Kortbroek van Schalkwyk, hangs on for dear life. I wonder what the future holds for him.
Some reports suggest Trevor has indicated a willingness to serve the new president if asked, throwing the ball into their court.
Zimification.
Z,
Trevor is part of the NEC committee that voted out Mbeki last weekend.
Surely, he will be re-appointed if the party feels he is competent.
This is the wake up call to everyone, no one owns the governement buut men and women on the street.
People (presidents and ministers) should be assessed based on their perfomance in their public offices.
COZ THESE ARE PUBLIC OFFICES NOT KINGDOMS.
Lindelani – and when all the internal processes have been exhausted and they still disagree? what then?
Z,
His spokesperson has said that. Before she had said that he would not be resigning. Also she said he resigned out of respect for TM. That does not make much sense, for if he accepts appointment from new president, he would not have resigned out of respect for TM but a mere technicality.
So believe her if you want.
Sandra,
I can’t answer that coz they never restored to them in the first place. I cannot answer the hipothetical question, I would do so if they have exhausted all the available internal procedures within the party.
Let me revert by asking: what should be done if they choose not to utilise the appropriate internal complaints procedures?
And the wall came dumpling down. What is happening in RSA?!
Lindelani,
AT THE END OF THE DAY – WE DON’T KNOW IF ZUMA BROKE THE LAW OR NOT
SO HOW CAN I TRUST THIS ‘NEW PROSPEROUS GOVERNMENT’ called the ANC
Creg and Mqo,
This is good for RSA. competition is always good for the masses.
People should deliver if not GO-HOME this will improve lives of our people.
They have been running government positions as if they are not accountable to anyone, let them go!
Whoever comes in should know that he or she must deliver otherwise s/he will be dismissed.
They don’t own these ministerial positions, these positions are available to each and evry South African.
This is good for our democracy I must say!
Rickieboy Jacob Z and Shabbier had a good thing goin till it was messed up by the de lille dosier, to think they had millions available to revamp the entire beach front of Durban. That would have been a very effective way of utilizing the money …billionaires in Mbeki`s cabinet have also benefited from tenders yet they never faced any prosecution?
Andrea,pls specify who are the “they” u refer to?
if its the SA politicians well then there is no love lost!
however i think the lipstick on a pig is best used by Mr Obama for the person its intended Sarah Palin!
Try something like, “If u put a wig on a gorilla its still a gorilla”
Seems as if most of those who hold posts outside of south Africa will have to sit tight & wait to be recalled. Most ministers will inform them after Thursday
Khosi
Notice I said: “Some reports suggest”. I am definitely not tying myself down on media reports.
Along a similar vein: One of the things I truly appreciate is some of our government websites for their accessibility. So upon reading this post I went straight to presidency.gov.za. Get it from the source.
According to news reports the rand and markets both fell more than 2% on hearing about Manuel.
z,
She was on radio, saying it. What I am saying is that based on her statements over the last few days, I do not put much stock on her word.
At last the entire world can see what is happening if you open the zoo and let monkeys sit in parliament. This is the result. It is in their genes. Funny they not eating pap and vleis while the house is in session? Sure it will happens soon…..
Well Manuel’s spokesperson has to get to the point.
Said he, Manuel is ready to”serve the new [ANC] administration in whatever capacity.”
“We are asking people not panic about his announcement,” he told the SABC.
He further went on to add that Manuel was “duty-bound” to resign, following the resignation of Mbeki.
Why has the Minister of Justice not resigned?
Hopefully, we are witnessing the beginning of the end for the United ANC.
Vovo,
Firstly,
His spokesperson has said that. Before she had said that he would not be resigning. Also she said he resigned out of respect for TM. That does not make much sense, for if he accepts appointment from new president, he would not have resigned out of respect for TM but a mere technicality.
So believe her if you want.
Secondly,
Jacob Zuma had asked them not to resign. But they(including Manuel) did. If they were “duty bound”, then all would have resigned and we were going to be told about it before-hand.
The best case scenario here, is that the ANC does not have control of this process.
Mpho // Sep 23, 2008 at 3:08 pm
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A very good question…
Andimazi uncakamele ntoni esikhundleni akugqiba ukugxothisa u-Vusi Pikoli… Makarhoxe esikhundleni…
Mpho,
Coz she’s the lawyer, she’s very much informed
@ Andrea Becker
I think that is a racist statement to make.
Please would everyone just ignore her.
Is she protecting Mpshe?
Jane // Sep 23, 2008 at 3:18 pm
…………………………………………………
What do you do in life Jane?
@ Khosi
Seing that the ANC does not have control of the nemesis, i choose to believe him, i.e we have to panic.
ALL THE MINISTERS WHO HAVE RESIGNED ARE USELESS IN ANY EVENT, EXCEPT FOR TREVOR MANUEL, WHO IS GOING TO BE RE-APPOINTED ANYWAY.
I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE SO SCEPTICAL ABOUT THEIR RESIGNATION.
AS SOUTH AFRICAN WE ARE VERY SCARED OF CHANGE IN GOVERNMENT SIMPLE BECAUSE WE’RE VIRGINS TO DEMOCRACY.
At least Yengeni’s in time to make Minister of Correctional Services
Such a pity that Poison Ivy is not on that list. Talk about useless…
Sne
Translation? My Xhosa learning is going slowly… (:
Mpho
Maybe there is some interest in justice still remaining… (:
@ Sne
I’m a student.
z // Sep 23, 2008 at 3:34 pm
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Ladies first z so let me start by saying thanks to Jane…
Here is the translation z…
“I do not know why she is still clinging on to her portfolio after she orchastrated Vusi Pikoli’s dismissal… She must resign…”
Samaita // Sep 23, 2008 at 2:04 pm
______________________________________
Are you Zimbabwean?
Thanks Sne.
Press conference on SAFM for those interested.
They officially confirmed that Trevor will still be available.
Taking questions now.
z // Sep 23, 2008 at 3:34 pm
…………………………………………..
I opine that Xhosa is very difficult so it will be better for you to ask Lindelani Maseko to teach you Zulu instead. Zulu will acquaint you with the clicks (I think there is fifteen (15) clicks in Zulu and Ndebele) but their clicks are better than Xhosa’s. Then you can gradually learn to speak Xhosa and in fact you will be in line to speak all the Nguni languages… All the best…
With a brilliant plan Cosatu/SACP took over the ANC goverment.This means they dont have to break away or form a new party.
@ Z
Who is they?
Mqo,
I am indeed.
Could we offer the vacant Min of Finance and Min of Defence posts to Zanu people and resolve the talks deadlock here? This would be Mbeki’s lasting legacy.
VoVo
Mantashe at ANC press conference.
z can you type really fast and post what they say?
Imagine a world where the ANC expels members found guilty of committing crime. Only in a perfect world I guess
@ z
Thank you.
Sne
I recently moved to a mostly Xhosa area, and am up for the challenge, it’s just a matter of time and practice. The core clicks have not been difficult for me so far, I even got the book I’m using’s click tongue twister under control. (:
Sorry Mpho
It wasn’t really very informative. Mantashe does claim that some of the resignations were handed in before they had talked to them. I missed some parts due to bad reception. Apparently there were some ministers at the conference and one of the questions was whether they could be seen as an indication of replacements, but they denied it and did not mention who they were.
Good to hear then. Would love to speak Sotho though. It sounds like a very beautiful language to me. However, next year I’ll be moving to Cape Town to work for Cliffe Dekker Hofmeyr and I am hoping to speak fluent Afrikaans by the end of 2010.
There is no plan here. This transition is being managed as we go along. And that is scary.
This fiasco has effectively cast a dark shadow over the political landscape,in RSA.On this note i question the decision to force Mbeki to resign by the anc.
It was ill timed and as we notice, has negative implications on the nation.
Zuma,Zuma,Ooooooh!
Sne
What nationality are you if I may ask, I respect if you don’t want to reveal that here.
I had a bit of Northern Sotho at school, and always regretted not spending the time to learn it properly, but my teacher couldn’t even speak fluently, go figure.
Lets see wht Msholozis next move is nw.Bcoz we are watchin closely.And south Africans let us nt be fooled the only thng tht make most south africans to remaim poor is corruption whom the SO CALLED ANC is nt even talkin about.We will change presidents as we do to coaches ngoba sizi zidenge kwaye I-ANC iyasibona.It is high time we have a strong opposition in South Africa.Or we change the constitution we must elect a person nt a party so tht we cn have a say whn the president is removed.So tht people wont settle political scores at the expense of our Votes,Because parties have became gangs with gang leaders(Msholozi) and power hungry(JULIUS MALEMA)
So there you have it. A corrupt President waiting in the wings. This was predicted. a Black man can not manage anything. They are just good in raping a victim. They are cowards. Absolutely useless and rotten to the core! Those who supported the ANC in the past all must take blame for this joke.
z,
did Mantashe have a clue on who else would be resigning?
z,
I ask because of this pre-amble
“President Thabo Mbeki has, to date, received letters of resignation from the following members of Cabinet”
Focus on ‘to date’
z // Sep 23, 2008 at 4:17 pm
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I’m Xhosa and you?
It is only if we accept ourselves that we can be proud of who we are…
I must be on my way to my place now to prepare to go to the Queens Casino to watch the MTN8 Wafa Wafa final between Chiefs and Sundowns… Cheers…
Wouldnt it be wonderful if this spelt the begining of “true democracy” where people could vote for a party for what they offered not based on age old traditions and skin colour. Wouldn’t be be great if the ANC split in two and actually had to deliver upon some of their election “promises”, wouldnt it be great if parties had to prove themselves or face possible replacement at the next election.
Let the people lead. but let us be lead by example.
nerves are high today, this could be something magnificent people, this could be something we will tell our children about with pride.
but this could be equally disasterous…
@ Samaita
Ah, how are you sis?
In relation to you question i would rather not comment seeing that Khosi is unemployed and am mindful of the attacka he can unlesh at this stage. Anywhere were are you, if i am ask. Its been long since i talked to a homie.
But seriously though i am not in favour of the just signed deal back home. I am of the belief that it is a white elephant that will eventually crumbly in say 6moths time. Unless of course Morgan sells out.
Sne
You can teach me Xhosa and I’ll help you with Afrikaans (I’m an Afrikaner)!
@ Sne
Which University are you currently studying in?
Khosi
The question was asked and Mantashe said they don’t know of any, but if there are more, they will have a talk with them and they “must explain why”.
He says he hopes there wouldn’t be any more.
sometimes i wonder about pride, in terms of people being less tolerant when they are proud and refuse insult. um, yes. i guess i am saying they have more to protect. this can be very damaging. looking at the negative side of things, of course!
I am dismayed by the turn of events, but if we have a more accountable government, then all the better. we wait with bated breath.
Hang in there South Africa. There is nothing you can possibly do now to change things. Lets get it right in the elections next year.
I am in Harare. Just watching ANC taking the thunder out of our progress. Now they have created a crisis before helping resolve ours.
Remember Mugabe captured and deported Gwede Mantashe in 2005.
May someone please tell ANC to let Kgalema speak at this moment and not Gwede! Please.
Comment on Andrea Becker’s opinion. He is a typical white person. The sooner you accept the fact that Africans will rule the country, the better. If you can’t accept that, relocate to UK or US! At least we know that there’s corruption in government compared to his government (no transparency). They used to get all the benefits and luxury treatment from the white government and nothing or less for non whites. That was corruption my dear or maybe it is classified as corruption when an African does it. Don’t come with stupid opinions!!!
That is that he was one of the COSATU delegates that was deported by the police when the tried to come to Zimbabwe. I think i am going to like this new administration.
@ Mqo
They won’t faze uncle Bob.
ANDREA SHUT THE HELL UP ! Please allow me to reiterate, that Andrea Becker is not the voice of white South Africans, rather the voice of profound, profound stupidity !
You got it awafully wrong, just like the Erasmus Commission-saga. These guys were just walking TM to the door and in order to usher-in President Kgalema Motlanthe whom they will serve with diligence.
Isn`t as plain as that, even for a lay person like me.
Have you read Mantashe’s new definition of ‘crisis’?
[Mantashe] added that the ANC had moved “with speed” to correct any wrong perceptions that resulted from the Presidency’s statement.
“That is not a sign of a crisis; it is a sign of an organised organisation,” said Mantashe.
This is brilliant. A born politician. Orwell would be proud.
These Ministers who have resigned together with their stooges have made a categorical statement to the ANC that they were loyal to individuals not the ANC.This means that the ANC had deployed about 14 individuals under the impression they are caders but have proven to me that they were just individuals who went with the flow at that time. There are things in my view that they have done during their time in the HIGH HOURSE that they not able to political account for since one of their own is no incharge.
Andrea is a white racist like so many black racists, we should just ignore these idiots, they belong in orania and Zimbabwe!
Why dont you leave and join your million brothers and sisters out there somewhere? Because you cant afford it? Arsehole!
Yes South Africa has a lot of People in politics that shouldnt be there ! I am not an ANC member ! But to believe that poor political leadership is restricted to a particular ethnic or racial group is just plain stupid ! Think back to all your beloved Nationl Party MP’s and PM’s, George Bush, Hitler,Stalin ! And these people all shared the same skin colour as you and I….white!
Maybe in ORANJE, or where ever the you live that is the general view, however I sure as hell wasn’t raised with such primative views ! WOW ur family really failed in raising u !
GAZZO, jy slaan die spyker op sy kop!!
AB // Sep 23, 2008 at 6:19 pm
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When has a black racists (or a Zimbabwean for that matter ever said these statements;
>It is only a few gatkruiper whites that admire these ape-like politicians.
>They all want to lead, like baboons fighting to become the leader,
Mqo
Sorry but I am just so GATVOL of these racist deviders. I wish I was Hitler to order their execution immediately, these people are killing us with their hate!!
Ban me like you suggested before. That is an African thing to ban someone who highlights reality. I am not allowed to mention that Pierre De Vos has a black boyfriend. Does De Vos has a black boyfriend? YES! I am not allowed to say that black South African politicians who ran this country are stupid. Does the ruling party takes SA forward? NO! Im not allowed to say that most of our National Ministers look like baboons. Do they look like baboons? YES. Catch a wake up fellow South Africans, otherwise all of us will share fate with the Zim baboons.
for the country to move forward, Zuma has to answer some questions from Pietermarizburg
Dang andrea, what is your goal with all these racist remarks? to turn everyone into mindless racists? March all the black people down the N3 and into the sea?. The ANC has alot of selfish and incompetent people, that much I agree with. Jacob Zuma and his squad arent the answer to a better south africa, but from your prejudicial views neither are you or people sharing you vile sentiments
Hmmmm….. Seems to me that it was the former, apartheid government (whites, all of them, and mostly afrikaners) who were so fond of issuing banning orders. So, more of an Afrikaner thing, banning people.
The more you rant, the more we are laughing (at you, not with you).
Andrea, I’m desparately trying to understand how you and your warped world veiws, came into being ! I’ve come up with a few scenario’s, which could possible explain and understand how you came to make the statements you do.
(1) You are not a particularily bright individual. I say this because it has for a long time been recognise that people with limited mental faculties, have a greater likelyhood, to base their judgements on, relatively superficial observations, without ever actually grasping the core issue. As a result you work in broad generalisations, and tend to deal in stereotypes, as doing so is easier to compute.
(2) You have been raised/indoctrinated by your family into having a very narrow world view, which as a result ,has limited your ability to think or approach views that are different from your own in a rational and reasonable manner. I pick this up, from your failure to put an arguement forward that is balanced and based on merit, you rather resort to insults(refering to people as apes). When the body of an arguement consists of insults, it shows it is lacking substance.
(3)Possible You, or someone close to you has been a victim of crime perpetrated by a black individual(and i stress individual and not the community as a whole). And you have allowed this incident to strip you of your ability to think in a reasonable manner.
I suppose it doesn’t really matter, nothing would excuse your ignorant, offencive statements !
I hope you know, that ur views do nothing to help or promote the interests of the white community in South Africa, if anything, you are fanning the feelings of resentment(which are far more legitimate then yours, over 300 years oppression) and belief that the whites in this country, have not changed, will not change and are fundamentally racist. Which in my oppinion simple is not true.
If you want to live in this country, and raise children in this country, then you must embrace the philosophy of UBUNTU. The greatest service you could do for ur white brothers and sisters, and indeed society as a whole is keep your destructive and divisive prejudices to yourself !
I’m sorry everyone else has to read this it’s directed only at Andrea
Don’t ascribe your opinions to the majority of Whites you imbecile. Clearly you haven’t set foot out of ORANJE in years.
Prof, please silence Andrea, surely what he is saying falls outside the ambits of protected freedom of expression
Guys, I think we should just ignore Andrea Becker. Because now it seems like we are starting to debate his racist and homophobic statements instead of discussing real and serious issues that affects us. Let’s NOT entertain his comments…Andrea Becker you are a disgraced to the white community….You want us to believe that all the whites are racist? Sorry you stupid AWB member..we don’t need such people like you on this block. What you must do is that you must try to be civilised and be matured, I doubt whether you married or not, but if you are married and have children, I’m feeling sorry for you children and your wife!! You are so stupid and arrogant, I still wish to see your family, you are aa disgraced!!!!!!!!
You’re right Victor!
Gazzo, this man is busy making racist statements about Black leaders..WHY? I don’t think his comments does fit on this debate..That man must get a life and stop making such stupid comments, or maybe he doesn’t have relevant views. Andrea Becker, please try to get views and come back and discuss clear and necessary issues!! I hope you get the message!!!!
Gazzo
Your point 2 on Andrea seems to me that you hit die spyker op die kop.
I enjoy reading this blog and analyse the debates. Andrea, however, does not contribute to the debate at all.
Just shows how stupid you are your apes! Im female! You are damn stupid. Does not mean if Pierre De Vos took a black man as his husband, that me as a female must take a wife as well. Gosh, you stupid. Thats why not even hair can grow on that skin! Zuma is nothing more than a Kwa-Natal gorilla. He still must face answers regarding the money he stole!
WOW, i would never have guessed that ur a woman ! I just don’t pick up any of that female vibe in your wall posts ! I think all your overt agression had me pointing in the direction of fairly substantial levels of testosterone ! How do men in general respond to ur pschopathic anger, hatered and bigottry ! I’m sure u just fit right in as one of the boys ! YOU must be quite the lady about town in ORANJA !!!! u lucky girl
Pierre,
If you do not, in the least, moderate Andrea Becker’s comments, I will leave this blog. It is incorrect and unfair that serious bloggers have to deal with such kind bigoted and barbaric behavior. This person is pulling our attention away from the issues.
Please just ignore the moron. I doubt Pierre has the time or resources to have comments moderated. I quite like the fact that it is an unmoderated forum, but the downside is situations like this.
@ khosi
Please don’t leave, I love reading your comments! If you leave, this vile Andrea person will have got what she wanted.
@ Andrea
(If you are indeed a real person) Shame on you! As a woman, I am disgusted that a woman, who should know from experience what it means to be discriminated against and oppressed, should spout such dispicable racist and homophobic garbage. Understand that these insults say infinitely more about your own level of barbarity and stupidity than they could ever say about the people you attack. It might be a refreshing and educational exercise for you to try to judge people based on their actions and words instead of on their skin colour or sexual orietation.
@ Prof
Maybe you should consider banning this person, since she is obviously not interested in the discussion here, but only in spreading her own bigoted b@lls#!t.
There is something in all these developments that worries me; up until about 12 yesterday Jesse Duarte did not know of these resignations. Was it kept away from the new leadership? If so why? To shock the country or can we add more value to the rumours of a break-away party to be formed? Just asking, something is not kosher here!
A break-away party with some credibility may be just what we need. I’ve always worried that our democracy will not survive a leading party that is too overwhelmingly popular, with no proper opposition to keep it on its toes. I wonder if the ANC would allow this to happen, they seem to be fighting very hard for “unity”, or should we say total control.
Could anyone here please shed some light on the rumours that the split in the ANC is along tribal lines – Zulu vs Xhosa? I’m afraid I find it hard to tell just from someone’s surname what their heritage is. I don’t think this would be good, we need to move beyond this type of thing.
I really struggle to understand who Trevor Manuel is…
* ANC recalls Thabo Mbeki; and Trevor assures the nation and the world that he will not be resigning during the weekend.
* Trevor resigns and its announced
* Trevor then says he was following a democratic norm of resigning then being reappointed by the new leadership. He claims shock at the market response to his resignation.
Here are my questions:
- why did he assure us that he was not resigning during the weekend?
- if Trevor really didnt know how the market would respond, why did he rush to assure the nation and world that he wouldnt be resigning.
My understanding was that he did that because he knew what his resignation could mean for the rand!
- My understanding was that Trevor informed the ANC of his intentions to resign (he still is a member of the ANC) – why did we have to get this resignation and reappointment? If his intentions were clear – he would have made his intentions known to ANC; ANC would have then reassured him of a reappointment so that this whole thing becomes a behind the scenes issue which could if they wanted come out when it was already resolved!!
* Is Trevor’s change of mind from a fear that he would be kicked out of the ANC?
OR
* Is Trevor’s change of mind simply for the benefit of avoiding market turmoil? If true? How will his monetary principles compare/function alongside that of the ANC sidekicks like COSATU, SACP…?
Whatever his intentions – if they are not genuine, Trevor should allow the ANC to choose its future Minister of Finance, who may as he did, build their reputation to become a respected Finance minister. He was also an unknown – lets not hold on to what we THINK is best!
Andrea exists because we exist. She has fun because some respond to her needling. How about ignoring these distractions and refraining from giving her something to respond to? If some do respond to her, lets then not complain when she bites back – irrespective of how irrational her behaviour may seem.
Society makes the rules – so this society decides who is wecome in it.
Mbeki’s revenge! Life will go on good people. I think sometimes we over appreciate ministers. They are just political appointments,i would be more concerned if deputydirectors all resigned. My gripe is with Manto Veggie msimang. Why on earth she hasnt resigned? After all that mbeki did for her?
Andrea Bekker should stick to intelligent comment or be excluded from this blog. Her comments are embarrassing to everyone in here with a bit of grey matter between their ears.
The likes of Manto are opportunists who will stick around hoping that the ANC in its desperation to project a stable image, will let her continue to serve!
@ Stalin
Maybe the poor woman is has been too drunk to notice what’s going on. Hopefully when she sobers up she’ll do the right thing..
From Business Report back then…
“President Nelson Mandela announces Liebenberg’s resignation and names his successor, the Minister of Trade and Industry, Trevor Manuel.
….Delays in lifting exchange controls and the appointment of Manuel as Finance Minister push the rand to a new low against the dollar of R4,1950.”
Look at where he is now.. We dont need his yo-yo acts. Yes Motlatsi, someone else can do it…maybe even better than Trevor! Who would have thought he would be better than Liebenberg or Keys..?
Contrary to some opinions floating arround, it is neither African nor Afrikaner type concepts to ban. In fact it is very HUMAN and it is very common for WESTERN moderators to remove comments on blogs and forums of the developed worlds. Some do not tolerate the slightest disruption.
I am continually surprised by how tolerant local blogs, newspapers and forums are. It is a testimony to us in one way, but there are limits.
I reiterate my vote for blocking or removal, of the most extreme disruptive statements.
I have to agree with Mpho and some others that this has certainly been an exciting few days in SA politics!! I, for one, never believed that individuals would resign in support of Mbeki, as I had truly begun to believe that idealism had been replaced by complacency within the ANC. The fact that all of these Ministers have resigned is, for me, an indication that these people do not support the current Zuma cabal and that they are not prepared to back him and his revolutionary supporters.
Many commentators have indicated that the ANC, which started as a movement, has failed to make the transition into a proper political party. This has been evidenced by the rantings of Malema and Vavi and their revolutionary talk, as well as their branding of the voices of dissention as counter-revolutionary.
What has become clear to me through all of this is that for many, service delivery and a functioning democracy is what the majority of South Africans seek. The revolution is over. We need to move on from war and rebuild this nation.
Those Cabinet Ministers who have resigned, showed us that they were not loyal to the ANC, but the were loyal to Thabo Mbeki…..it’s fine they can go, it’s their right .
Maybe it has nothing to do with loyaltly to the ANC or Thabo. Maybe it has more to do with demonstrating their disapproval of the way Thabo Mbeki was removed from office and the way in which the “new” regime within the ANC is conducting itself.
If the President is not safe, then who is?
Just a theory….
Samantha….I don’t agree with you. ANC is the big organisation and it is guided by its constitution and so we are expecting those people who are deployed there in the government by the ANC to be disciplined and listen to the new leadership. So those who have resigned have indicated their disobeyment of the instruction from the leadership, so I think the ANC should initiate disciplinary hearings against them.
See what is hapening in Western Cape with a split ANC
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2398931,00.html
Where should their loyalty lie? To the President? The Party? The Country? What about when there are conflilcts between these?
Seems to me as if there is too much emphasis on loyalty to the party–which I think is a relic of the old exile days (especially for Thabo), when there was nothing else.
Andrea
Do you realise that your name is associated with your statements and that your future potential employer or your current employer might one day do a google search for your name on South Africa’s internet pages like i just did. The first link to pop up is the link to your bitter racist sentiments on this message board.
Well as per the old chinese proverb and curse: May you live in interesting times. No one can accuse South Africa as being boring… i hope someone is securing the future movie/book rights to this unfolding saga.
i just realised that politics is like chess, you move and wait to see what your oponent does and then rethink your next move. Except at stake are the pawns expended in the game namely our economy and the dignity of the office of the presidency and the ruling party.
On the lighter side I found an apt quote: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/russellbak136018.html
Victor – I understand your point regarding how things should operate and the expectations placed on the leadership of the ANC.
From what little I do understand of the workings of the ANC, I believe that they operate under the imperative mandate theory – in other words, members are bound by their mandate and even when a conflict arises between the policy of the party and an individual’s conscience, the individual is expected to toe the party line, or resign. The resignation of the relevant ministers is a clear indication to me that they are in conflict with the mandate of the ANC, and have decided not to toe the party line, as it were, despite Zuma having requested them to remain in office.
Somehow, I don’t get the feeling that an internal disciplinary procedure is going to mean terribly much to them. They must have known the risks associated with resignation, so I am sure they are prepared for whatever sanction the party decides to make against them.
Despite, Mantashe’s claim that there is no crisis, I think that the clear defiance of those MP’s is an indication of the rifts within the organisation.
z // Sep 23, 2008 at 4:29 pm
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No problem, where are you in South Africa currently? I am in the Eastern Cape in Queenstown but will only move to Cape Town next year in January 2008. I must admit though that I do have a coloured girlfriend so it will be less strenuous to teach me Afrikaans.
Mqo // Sep 23, 2008 at 4:30 pm
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I am currently working as a candidate attorney in Queenstown for the Rhodes University Legal Aid Clinic. Their website is http://www.ru.ac.za and I graduated from the University of Fort Hare in 2007. Their website is http://www.ufh.ac.za and what about you?
If the communications minister poison Ivy doesn’t go then this is all a bad dream.
Sne
See you next year maybe…
Samantha // Sep 24, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Thanks Samantha….”The resignation of the relevant ministers is a clear indication to me that they are in conflict with the mandate of the ANC, and have decided not to toe the party line, as it were, despite Zuma having requested them to remain in office”. At least now I can agree with you, that those cabinet ministers ignored the instruction from the ANC president. Thanks a lot, we need people like you on this discussion blog, NOT the likes of Andrea Becker….!!
wow
listed on “whose who” he is listed as the prez of RSA nogal, without even formally elected or inaugurated
“lindelani maseko // Sep 23, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Sandra,
they follow and exhaust the appropriate internal complaints procedures in place.
Surely, ANC has those in place. hope I answer your st####d question.”
Sandra and lindelani …
The ANC practice afro democracy …
No not the one practice by the civilised nations eg I have my own point of view and therefore vote accordingly, and you have your own point of view and vote accordingly ….
Democracy the ANC style will entail …you and I will vote the same even if we have to deliberate for 14h to convince you to vote the same …
No democracy!!!
Maybe Prof should revisit the concept of true democracy for the uninformed …
Heard on tonight’s news that Bantu Holomisa is cleaning up in Port Elizabeth, with hundreds of ANC members joining his UDM. And, for those who haven’t seen it yet, here’s an article about the new party so many people are craving:
http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=252115
As regards Andrea, to a certain extent she’s correct when she talks about apes: humans are part of the primate family. Unfortunately, that means all of us, not just Africans … and yes, we women also have testosterone! Another thing: those of you white commentators who shout at her the loudest secretly hold the same views but are overcome by guilt.
Clara
“Another thing: those of you white commentators who shout at her the loudest secretly hold the same views but are overcome by guilt.”
On what do you base such a ridiculous statement? Pure “gutt-feel” or an inherent need for racial conflict on your part? It is amazing how in times of agreement and harmony amongst various commentators,we will always have the deviders and doomsayers amongst us shouting the loudest! In any case ,if guilt overcomes anybody ,to the extent that they alter their views, is that bad?
Clara!!?!?
“Another thing: those of you white commentators who shout at her the loudest secretly hold the same views but are overcome by guilt.”
Don’t project! Your assumptions and collective blanket statement describing the motives and beliefs of “white” people is not only unsubstantiated, it also, to a lesser extent, aligns you with the likes of an Andrea.
Wouldnt we be a more mature society if everyone from all races, cultures, religions and income groups could participate in a discussion or debate like this without using the race card.
And in that ideal world this thread would be debating the characteristics of the political leaders in terms of their ethics, reputation, political views and management ability and supported FACTS instead of the colour of their skin or their ethnic language group.
It would be a wonderful state to aspire to. I personally am far from perfect and quite willing to admit that tolerance of stupid people from all cultures is something that i have to work at daily…
Politically-Challenged // Sep 25, 2008 at 8:45 am
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In as much as I love the fact that you guys are involved in a debate which will of course stimulate your minds and make you better persons, I cannot shake off the feeling that you have been tasked to engage in an unnecessary racial debate which was procured by Andrea Becker.
If we were to collectively ignore her and Julius Malema, do you think she and Julius Malema would still be talking even today? The more we entertain her comments the more emboldened she will be to post more racist posts which will do more harm to us as South Africans. I move that a more decisive role be collectively adopted to decisively deal with this before it gets out of hand and turn some of us into racists too.
Such a collective action would not be to ban her as she will use another name and post the same things, but it is to ignore her until she realises that she is fighting with herself and give up…
Sne
I say aye!
I agree with Sne.
Absolutely!! Nothing like removing the hot air to eliminate the wind in one’s sails!!
Ignore-ance is bliss!!
Sne // Sep 24, 2008 at 3:54 pm
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I am studying Law at the University of KwaZulu-Natal and hoping to do articles at HHD.
I seriously wander what role the media has played in all this pre Zuma, Nicholson J, & post President & cabinet resignations? There have been some serious inaccuracies!
I seriously wander what role the media has played in all this pre Zuma, Nicholson J, & post President , Cabinet resignations? There have been some serious inaccuracies!
Hey Mqo – I’m also a law student at UKZN. Which campus are you on?
@ Clara,
Is my tentative notion [ also in the light of that link you provided ] that it is now the Xhosa Nostra that has been ousted by the Zuma – camp, maybe correct?
So the new party might be the Xhosa Nostra Alliance ??
Hehehe, Henri … who knows? “The XNA” does have rather a nice ring to it, though. Time will tell!
Internal information: The new party will be the resurrected UDF.
I think Mothlanthe has, in one sweet move, earned himself the undying gratitude of at least 80% of the nation in his carefully orchestrated sidelining of the scary Manto!! Her removal from the Ministry of Health is the best news I’ve had all year!!! Pity she wasn’t removed completely, but, hey, beggars can’t be choosers!!!
Good riddens Mr Mbeki! What is good for the gander is surely good for the goose. It’s the return of the MacZUMA. There no xhosa nostra, u r just trying to divide and rule.
@ Jane
Horward Colllege
Correction
Colllege-College
@ Mqo…….Kunjani Sundowns? Mqo I think I know you..I’m one of the legal eagles there at Howard College….!
Did anyone notice the economic turmoil that followed the resignation of Hon. Minister Trevor Manuel? It is obvious that the most important people in our developing economy (i.e. investors) do not trust anyone else to weather the storm we are in. Alot can be read into the fact that the Hon. Minister allowed the markets to free fall before announcing he was availible for re- appointment. In my layman opinion it a huge F**K YOU to the ANC’s NEC. In addition the Presidents statements that economic policy would not be changing is a bigger F**K YOU to COSATU and gang. However, like the masses in this country, COSATU will continue supporting the ANC