When that well known Afrikaans “singer” Sunette Bridges made blatantly racist comments and I posted a Blog on it, several readers of this Blog argued either that racism was justified or that it was an aberration. They hardly knew any racist white people and there were hardly any racists left in South Africa, many readers claimed. (Some argued that Sunette Bridges was not well known, but they obviously know little about Afrikaans music and have not suffered through one and a half hours of hell – for anthropological reasons, you see – by watching the smash hit movie Liefling like I did last week.)
I suspect the same readers would not have heard of Annelie Botes (pictured below – no comments about her lack of dress sense allowed), one of the best selling (if not one of the most highly regarded) Afrikaans novelists that sells tens of thousands of books every year. She has now created a storm by making the most blatantly racist comments in an interview with Rapport newspaper.
In an interview she said she did not like black people.
I don’t understand them!…. I know they are people just like me. I know they have the same rights as me. But I do not understand them. And then I do not like them. I avoid them because I am scared of them…. My neighbour was brutally murdered. For what? When black people are hungry, why don’t they just break in like in the old days and steal food from the fridge and leave? I know where this anger comes from. It has fuck-all to do with apartheid. They are angry because of their own ineptitude.
We all know now that this is not an aberration. These sentiments are rife and are supported either tacitly or more loudly by many white South Africans. Yesterday in the Sunday Times it was reported that Ezanne Jacobs, SIU member in Durban made a racist slur against, Bongani Mpungose in October. Jacobs is alleged to have compared Mpungose to a monkey during a team-building exercise at Giba Gorge, an adventure park near Pietermaritzburg, on October 6. Mpungose was seated with colleagues when Jacobs walked past him with a white consultant and “unexpectedly called me by my name, asking whether I saw my brother and I must go chase him”, a letter says.
These are not isolated incidents and they do not represent the views of a small minority of whites. They represent the world view of large numbers of white people. Today I am not going to rail against these people. Merely calling them idiots and racists will not change anything.
What I am wondering about is this: how do such people live in a country in which they fear, hate or find disgusting the large majority of people who live here? Don’t they know any people who are not members of their own race? Do they ever socialise with black people? If not, why not? Do they know how warped their lives are?
I mean really, it seems to me far too many people are prisoners of the apartheid past. They live in their own private worlds and avoid those who are not like them. How can a writer, for goodness sake, someone who is supposed to know about the human heart and the human condition, have lived such a narrow and sheltered life that after 50 years of living in a country where 90% of people are black, she has never made one black friend, never once had a black lover or a black colleague? What lack of imagination and inability to live a full life lead to such a barren existence? How does one wake up in the morning and face the day if one is so scared and ignorant and so lacking in understanding of those around you?
What is sad is that many white South Africans harbour these kinds of thoughts (although only some are stupid enough actually to say it out loud) and when they do encounter people of another race, they might think they are hiding their racism, but they are not. Don’t they have friends of a different race than themselves? Or at least colleagues which they respect and talk to? What kind of narrow, diminished, lives do such people live? It’s like living like Osama bin Laden in a cave of one’s own making, a prison which cannot but make one bitter and fearful. What sad lives such people must lead.
This reminds me of the words of justice Laurie Ackermann in the case of National Coalition for Gay and Lesbian Equality v Minister of Justice who said in a slightly different context:
The desire for equality is not a hope for the elimination of all differences. The experience of subordination – of personal subordination, above all – lies behind the vision of equality. To understand “the other” one must try, as far as is humanly possible, to place oneself in the position of “the other”.
It is easy to say that everyone who is just like ‘us’ is entitled to equality. Everyone finds it more difficult to say that those who are ‘different’ from us in some way should have the same equality rights that we enjoy. Yet so soon as we say any . . . group is less deserving and unworthy of equal protection and benefit of the law all minorities and all of . . . society are demeaned. It is so deceptively simple and so devastatingly injurious to say that those who are handicapped or of a different race, or religion, or colour or sexual orientation are less worthy.
It is this inability of so many South Africans to put themselves in the shoes of others who happen not to share their language, their race, their beliefs, their sexual orientation, their gender, that seems to lie at the root cause of all the hate and anger and prejudice in our society. (This kind of self-imposed fear and ignorance cross the racial, sexual orientation, language and gender divide.)
What I cannot understand is why many white people – who are a small minority who, according to its own mythology – has become the “other” cannot see the “other” in fellow South Africans who happen to be black. What lack of humanity and lack of basic decency make it impossible for them to deal with “the other” in their midst?
Is it the structural inequality, the attitudes about racial superiority, the arrogance that comes with 100 years of world domination, that is so deeply embedded in Western culture that still allows white people to believe in their own intellectual and moral superiority and in the basic goodness of their own kind – despite all the revelations at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of what they and their fathers and mothers and brothers and sisters did during apartheid?
Or does Annelie Botes have a point, sort of, in that many white South Africans are angry, perhaps not at their own ineptitude, but because of the knowledge of their own turpitude and moral corruption and their lack of basic decency and humanity which was so vividly exposed at the TRC hearings?
What people like Annelie Botes do not realise is that one can be liberated from the fear and the hate by opening oneself up to the other – in its many forms. Hiding in one’s cave makes one just nasty and bitter and unhappy. It leads to discrimination and prejudice and long dark nights of the soul. What a waste of human life.
Hey Pierre,
“What a waste of human life”.
The popular version, as I was told, goes like “(w)hat a waste of a white skin!”.
You quote Botes out of context – without linking to the original story – and then you fixate on one or two sentences.
It’s like church, actually…
JS, please put her comments in context – I’d like to understand how the racism apparent in the quoted paragraph is somehow justified or explained away…..
This is the best response I have read: http://www.rapport.co.za/Weekliks/Nuus/Van-waar-hierdie-grootheidswaan-20101126
Maggs, how much further than Annelie have you got in dealing with your own prejudices?
Brett Nortje says:
November 29, 2010 at 11:34 am
Hey Brett,
“Maggs, how much further than Annelie have you got in dealing with your own prejudices?”
Not much – maybe she’s gone further than me.
You?
p.s How’s the journey?
Is Brandon joining you?
p.p.s Ignore Dworky – he’s homophobic.
Some years ago the respected (certainly by me) journalist and editor Harold Pakendorf was commenting on plans by then-Education-Minister Kader Asmal to bus Black children to traditionally White schools. Addressing a presumed White Afrikaans audience he (Pakendorf) asked someting along the lines of “wie van ons het Engelse vriende wat tuis by ons kuier” (I’m not quoting him verbatim.)
He was making the point, without malice, that even within White society, ethnic seperation is rife. Certainly, hearing comments that non-Afrikaner White South Africans make about their White Afrikaner counterparts (in their absence, of course) underscores the point. It dilutes the illusion that all would be well in Black/White relations.
Maggs,
Please just ignore Dworky when he tells you that Annelie Botes looks butch.
PS: I have always taken the view that folk who deny being religious or racist probably are both religious and racist.
@spoiler – The context is that she is confessing to her own prejudices and irrational fears.
Please note: I’m not defending any of it. What is important, however, is that she honestly admits to them. Admitting a problem is the first step towards fixing it.
She’s not stating demeaning ideas as facts. Rather, she’s admitting to having the ideas in her head.
Snowman says:
November 29, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Hey Snowman,
For now that (butch looks or her dress style) is too much info for me (will consult if and when I am on the hunt
).
I doubt though that Dworky will bother about what someone looks or dresses like.
p.s Dworky is vehemently opposed to B & B (Brett and Brandon) taking the slow boat to down under together till death (or the NZ immigration) do them part. It’s his deep seated homophobia. On the other hand, maybe he’s jealous.
Strange country.
Zuma may entertain his ANC crowds with singing with them “bring me my machine gun” [to kill the hated Whites, of course - who else?].
And Julius may sing with his crowds “kill the boer, kill the farmer” [to kill the hated Boers, of course - who else?].
But Botes may not basically say the same thing?
Why not? Because she’s a hated White, of course….. And who should not enjoy the SAME freedom of speech.
I am the only white person working in my office and I have black friends. So no, I’m not living in any cave. And I still share Annelie Bote’s opinion. I evaluate individuals on merit. But I also evaluate race on merit. Funny how you never seem to be able to make a distinction between an individual and a group. Hang on, isn’t that how racism starts? LOL
And I would love to hear blacks’ opinion about the assertion that you, as a white person, understands them 100%. That is quite laughable. Boy you live in an ivory tower.
And by the sounds of the nasty comments you direct towards people, seemingly mostly Afrikaners, I think it is safe to conclude that you must identify with your observation that, “Hiding in one’s cave makes one just nasty and bitter and unhappy. It leads to discrimination and prejudice and long dark nights of the soul. What a waste of human life.” Classical projection.
South Africa seems, at times, to consist of groups of peoples competing with each other to see who can claim to be the most victimized and oppressed, a land obsessed with history and self justification, wallowing in self pity.
When are you going to get over all this crap and get on with life?
“. . . and have not suffered through one and a half hours of hell – for anthropological reasons, you see – by watching the smash hit movie Liefling like I did last week. . . ”
Pierre, is this an admission that you hate Afrikaans speaking White people (also referred to as Afrikaners in some circles)? Does it make you a racist, or is it OK to hate Afrikaners? Or does the fact that you share a common ancestory make a person imune against racism? Or is it just racism if you don’t like Blacks?
According to your quote (and I assume your own translation) Annelie used the words “And then I do not like them” (I did not read the interview myself). Anyone who regularly reads this blog knows so well that you don’t like Afrikaners (and I don’t use the word hate – “hate” and “don’t like” do not have the same meaning. I state as a fact that you don’t like Afrikaners, and I ask if you hate them).
Oh dear, here we go with the logic deficit again. First, if I confess not to like a movie that happens to be Afrikaans, how on earth this could be construed as a declaration of hatred of all “Afrikaners” (a rather contested ter to start with) or “Afrikaans speaking white people” is really beyond me (as it should be beyond anyone who could read and more or less think). I did not like “Sex and the City II”. By your logic that means I hae all women/Americans/New Yorkers. Laughable really. Second, some readers seem not able to distinguish between expressing an opinion about a person (I suspect Nyanda is corrupt, say, or that Terreblanche was a nutter or that Sarah Palin is rather dense) and a expressing a generalised and sweeping hatred of a marginalised and oppressed group (I hate black people/white people/Gypsies/homosexuals). If you cannot distinguish between these two, well, there is nothing I can do but hope you grow a brain someday.
Its a pity that some people cannot engage constructively but feel the need to take upon themselves to degenerate the entire important debate into a vicious attack on the author and question his motives. If you cannot engage constructively, if you have nothing constructive to add to the debate, it is best you don’t publish your ignorance or stupidity. Its such a pity Pierre that one cannot screen those who would make constructive points from the imbiciles.
JS I get that, and agree to a point, but she goes on to say after acknowledging that she does not understand “them” that they are angry at their own ineptitude – i.e she does understand….
Pierre De Vos says:
November 29, 2010 at 16:46 pm
Wow, what a reaction! I asked a simple question, and you seem to be avoiding it going on a little tirade instead. From my own post “I state as a fact that you don’t like Afrikaners, and I ask if you hate them” You do not deny that you don’t like Afrikaners and you avoid the question if you hate them. Only a primary school child, and one who is not to bright, will believe that your reference to the movie in incidental. This women said she doesn’t like Black people, and you read “hate” for “do not like”. I merely ask if your logic may be applied to yourself, and you explode!
I suppose you know the saying “He doth protesteth too much “.
Chris says:
November 29, 2010 at 18:10 pm
Hey Chris,
Pierre definitely hates Afrikaners – he’s written twice about Afrikaners.
He also hates Communists.
He also hates ANCYL members.
He also hates DA members.
He also hates ANC members.
He also hates Christians.
He also hates diplomats and university professors and the guy at the security at UCT and Osama bin Laden.
Eish – the list is long. Let’s make it easy – Pierre hates everyone.
Now that I got that out of my system, what do you think about the comments of Ms Annelie?
Chris, few things irritate me as much as people who see an opinion they do not like and then try and discredit the OPINION by ascribing bad motives to the person who provided the opinion. When I criticise John Hlophe I am accused of hating Hlophe and all black people. When I criticise any white person I suddenly hate whites or Afrikaners. It’s so tired and anti-intellectual and anti any kind of debate and meaningful discussion. And nothing sounds as silly as saying: well I do not hate black people/whites/Afrikaners. Its like somebody asking one whether you have stopped beating your wife. A denial is in itself playing into the absurd and shallow paradigm of the questioner. Your statement is paricularly absurd in the light of the fact that I am white and Afrikaans, my bookshelf is brimming with Afrikaans books (I am currently reading Marlene Van Niekerk’s Die Sneuslaper), my Ipod full of Afrikaans music, etc etc etc etc. But if you want to believe I hate Afrikaners, so be it, go right ahead. But you still have to deal with the opinion if you want to make any intelligent and credible contribution.
Why don’t you rather engage with my opinion? That would be interesting. Your response is not interesting in any way. It just suggest a reactionary defensiviness that says far more about you than me. So, once again: what do you think of my opinion? Do you agree? Do you disagree? Why? These may be interesting questions. Your previous posts do not pose any interesting questions and detract from a meaningful discussion on race and racism that might be of some small value in South Africa.
Anyone who says they hate a whole group of people and cannot distinguish between individuals in that group – and cannot or will not recognise the diversity within groups – is choosing to remain in an inner position of hate and ignorance. It’s just lazy and inexcusable and sad. As someone who is interested in finding our more (not less) about people who seem different from me I can only say I have grown as a person. Sure it hasn’t been easy and I’ve encountered hurt and rejection and confusion in the process, but I believe I’ve become a better and more interesting person myself. Reach out of your caves people!!!!!!!!!!
PM says:
November 29, 2010 at 15:57 pm
Hey PM
“When are you going to get over all this crap and get on with life?”
It took a few centuries to get here.
It will pass.
In time.
Patience.
Unless you’re in a hurry of course, then there may be place on the dinghy heading far, far away.
Pierre says:
November 29, 2010 at 19:14 pm
Hey Pierre,
“and cannot or will not recognise the diversity within groups”.
How would you identify or define such groups?
Shocking that in the 21st century we can still have opinions like Sunette Bridges, Annelie Botes et al.
Funny how Steve Hofmeyr is not inviting Annelie Botes to a braai…
The sad thing is that these buffoons (including some of the comments on here) plays into the “all white people are racists” stereo types.
With the world economy teetering on a knife’s edge and South Africa running out of water, I was greatly encouraged on scanning this forum to spot yet another of Prof’s “what to do about whites and their racist tendencies” posts.
Things can’t be all that bad so long as we have the time – and the space – to discuss causes so trivial and so gloriously lost.
Boy, do we have a long way to go. A few days ago the ANC lodge an appeal against the ruling don’t sing ‘Shoot the boer’, then Ms Botes – a boervrou – brings us to this fork in the road! I try to teach my son (he is 17) that to label is wrong, that it gets in the way of real understanding, that it prevents one from seeing we are all related, that we all live here, and we have to do the best for ourselves and for each other, with what we have, in the time given to us. For what? As an aside, I work with math all day, helping people – not just locally, but globally – forecast better so we have more available with less. That beer, that truck, that shampoo, that food, that … if some of us work hard so we have more, why don’t the rest pull their weight so we can smile everyday. Clearly, we have a long way to go . . .
Considering the past, the present and the looming (and questionable) future yet to unfold for South Africans, I do understand Annelie Botes’s comments, and I think they should be listened to, as Prof has done, although with his bias. Each of us will have our own response according to our culture and experience. The headline in Rapport, in reality was misleading, and those who didn’t read all the interview possibly didn’t get to her explanation.
I don’t think she is so much an example of Afrikaans racism, but rather expressive of much else at many levels, and if one is empathetic, understandable.
As a Canadian born and bred, and only in SA for eleven years, I have to agree with PM above, however ‘healing crises are often necessary.
I must say that as a black South African raised outside RSA, this talk between Chris and de Vos is interesting. I remember returning to RSA in 1990 and hearing on campus the concept of “Abelungu abasithandayo”. Loosely translated this refers to “the whites that like us.” Needless to say, I went to a so-called “liberal institution” of the time for some 6 years. Now for those that do not have this experience, these were said to be “the white people that we really needed to be scared of because of their pretence, amongst other things.” Is de Vos and/or Chris “labelungu abasithandayo.” If any of them are, how do we deal with this group – over 15 years post independence? Is this not the group most confusing our progress in business, our careers and life overall?
It reminds me of Christians of a certain kind who, after encountering, or on discussing, a non-Christian who appears to be otherwise happy, content and successful in their non-Christianity, say that he/she “really” must be or is “unhappy” and “miserable” “deep inside”. The urge to ascribe psychological deficiencies and emotional distress to people with whom one disagrees is rather interesting. Wishful thinking? Consoling fantasy? Projection? Perhaps for those who feel themselves to be powerless the ability to render the object of one’s fear or hatred mentally and emotionally deficient provides a certain sense of strength. Any qualified psychologists care to comment?
Clara says:
November 29, 2010 at 20:15 pm
Hey Claraty,
“Things can’t be all that bad so long as we have the time – and the space – to discuss causes so trivial and so gloriously lost.”
So it seems.
As Justice Malala says (i)f you want to know what is wrong with debate in this country you should visit Jeremy Cronin” and asks “(w)hat drives a seasoned intellect like Cronin’s to see conspirators everywhere, instead of engaging with the content of criticism? http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/article787887.ece/Why-should-civil-society-shut-up.
Then there’s the exchange between Jim and Gordhan which culminated in the Numsa boss calling the minister a ‘neo-liberal’ for sticking to a macro-economic stance that does not enjoy the full support of labour” in which “Gordhan is said to have angrily reacted by reminding Jim that he had sacrificed 30 years of his life to the struggle.
And Retired Constitutional Court judge Albie Sachs “I must say the minute I took my shoes off — I was wearing Crocs — and my feet touched the ground, I felt the tar and it was terrific. It was like I had direct contact with the world. It was not a false mimicking of the poor. It was just the sense of aligning myself with all humanity with this notion of going barefoot.”
Oh well, I guess we really don’t have much to worry about, so we might as well revel in silliness.
Dis moeilik om te glo dat ‘n gesiene skrywer soos Annelie Botes so ‘n geweldige fout kon begaan om te vertel sy ken geen swartmense nie. Geen kollega, geen tuinwerker? Geen huisbediende wat haar kinders opgepas het nie?
Om te vra dat swartmense liefs inbreek en net steel, pleks van hul bure vermoor, vertel van ‘n vrou wat geweldige lyding en trauma ervaar het. Dat sy haar kon uitpraat, was goed, maar sy betaal nou die prys vir eerlik wees.
Hester Pretorius
Hey Pierre
Just like you can’t help it that you are gay, she can’t help it that she doesn’t like blacks. What’s the difference ?
I don’t think she goes to bed every night saying “I must dislike blacks”.
That’s just the way she feels. Big deal.
I’m sure there are plenty of blacks that don’t like whites. But I guess they have an excuse in your eyes at least.
Your criticism is like saying that it’s just laziness and ineptitude that makes you gay. People can’t help what they feel. At least she’s honest which makes her a much better human being than the thieves in government.
How do her feelings harm anyone ?
Pierre, your blog posting really saddens me, for it illustrates just how far we are from a society free from prejudice. Maybe you should consider making an intellectual step-up in a debate like this. A key component of a prejudice free society is respect for different views, regardless whether or not you agree with them. So, instead of making these derogatory remarks and imposing your ideal social setting upon others, consider this; prejudice lies in your reaction toward people that are different to you. You may (rightfully) believe that your world view is the correct one and that anyone that thinks otherwise lives a barren live. Then again, this was the same view held by the Apartheid regime. Rather respect other opinions and, by way of example, lead society away from derogatory remarks against them* (* ‘them’ – add whoever has a different view than yours – even if racist).
Where is the world cup spirit and flags? May be we need more Invictus therapy.
@JR
What Pierre fails to mention is that there is not one single society anywhere that is free from prejudice. And there never will be. It’s the nature of man.
Without prejudice there would be no evolution. The advancement of the species has always been at the expense of others. Prejudice by itself does not cause dislike and hate. (That is the domain of murder, rape, corruption and a lying, theiving government.)
Pierre is quite ridiculous with his attacks on the smallspeak of individuals when there are are far greater issues facing our country and mankind. It’s just so.. well… fucking gay !
Blacks don’t live in hopeless squalor because of Annelie Botes. Black schoolkids don’t fail and do drugs and rape other kids because of Annelie Botes. AIDS doesn’t spread because of Annelie Botes. Government kleptomania doesn’t take plave because of Annelie Botes. Civil servants don’t strike because of Annelie Botes. Home Affairs is not corrupt because of Annelie Botes. The police are not useless thugs because of Annelie Botes.
You’re really giving Huisgenoot a run for their money Pierre.
Hear! Hear! John Roberts.
…or because of Sunette Bridges…
Pierre, what on earth were you doing at “Liefling”? Attending so that you could complain about it? Hardly a rational action.
I don’t read “You/Huisgenoot” for good reason. Surely you are able exercise similar restraint about what you do with your time?
Pierre … perhaps you could tell us how many average working class whites have done this type of thing to blacks: ( I bet you can’t name even 1 in the last 10 years ) And this is a mild attack :
Pretoria – A 6-year-old boy hid in his father’s Land Rover after attackers pulled his shot father from the vehicle and pushed him into their house in Donkerhoek, east of Pretoria, over the weekend.
After the attackers assaulted George Visser and his partner Zelda Keulder with firearms, they went to fetch the boy in the vehicle.
In the house, little Zane Visser, 6, ran straight towards Keulder and watched as the attackers raided their house and shouted at them.
They kept firearms pointed at them throughout the ordeal.
Prayed out loud
“I started praying out loud,” said Keulder, 36, on Sunday outside the Pretoria hospital where Visser was operated on.
“The one told me directly that I could pray even louder because we wouldn’t see tomorrow.”
The incident was the fourth attack in the Boschkop police district east of Pretoria in less than a month.
Visser, 47, was shot in the neck through the windscreen when he stopped in front of his house on Saturday night. He had gone to fetch Zane from a birthday party.
When Visser was hit, he grabbed Zane and threw him in the back of the vehicle, where he hid away.
Keulder was busy working at about 21:00 when she heard five shots. She went to the front door to have a look but a man holding a firearm was already standing there.
The man took Keulder to the bedroom and threw her to the ground. Another two attackers then brought Visser into the room.
Visser and Keulder were each hit over the head with the firearms three times. The attackers wanted jewellery and money.
“They told us we weren’t going to make it,” said Keulder.
“I started praying out loud and asked Jesus to help them and to forgive them for what they were going to do to us.”
Frightened off
The attackers took the couple to the living room, where they asked them: “Where is the child?”
Zane was then fetched from the Land Rover.
While the attackers were raiding the house, a car’s lights frightened them off. It was Visser’s mother, Leona, who came looking for a painkiller. She lives only a few kilometres away.
The attackers fled with a laptop and cellphones.
Apart from Visser’s operation on Sunday afternoon, Zane had to receive trauma counselling.
“I really wish that something could be done about this (crime),” said Keulder.
“We live in a world where everyone wants to go overseas. If only we could give work to everyone.”
Gwebecimele says:
November 29, 2010 at 22:25 pm
Hey Gwebs,
“Where is the world cup spirit and flags? May be we need more Invictus therapy.”
The world cup spirit and flags are off with FIFA (with the oodle of boodle of course). But we got the stadia (and the bills to pay for a long time)
Individuals aside the prejudice, in my view, manifests in all of us given our history. It may present as anti-Black or anti-White. Or maybe anti-anti-White or anti-anti-Black or anti something or the other. Pretending it’s not there will not make it better – maybe the opposite will happen.
I am not sure that a truly non-racial society is possible or even, in our case especially, desirable at this stage. A world where everyone is truly equal is no more than the figment of very active imaginations.
That aside, I am far more concerned at the utterings of Cronin, surprised at that of Min Gordhan and amused at Judge Sachs; but not in the least bothered by Ms Annelie’s dislikes which in any event she is entitled to particularly given our very liberal human rights culture.
Anyway, as the most recent Wikileaks are showing, there’s far more serious hypocrisy in the world than the silliness under discussion.
Maybe South Africa will be a better place if people simply came out and said what they feel – at least then these silly, unwarranted prejudices can be dealt with in some or other appropriate way.
Greetings, I was bitten by a mosquito and couldn’t sleep again so decided to read what you had come up with in recent days, I too deducted that you could possibly have blamed Afrikaans white people for the problem that you have identified by looking at the examples you used, but you most probably came from such a background and didn’t have a broader framework of reference to work from, also this is the group from where you probably experienced the most exclusion because of your sexuality, I don’t judge though so please afford me a single opportunity to give you a reality check from the Constitution from which you usually preach:
Everyone has the right to equal treatment just as they do to freedom of speach
That said we must take into consideration that those rights may be limited in terms of section 36 of the same bible and a justified example. Of such a limitation would be legislation in terms of which certain individuals may be discriminated against, now I know you’ve written a book on this and you’re mind has probably already formed a standardised defence against this old subject, but in that case let me teach you something new.
According to the author of ‘Srafreg’ there are certain theories of sanctions, three of which I’ll discuss briefly: sanction as a preventative measure so as to discourage a potential perpetrator from ie stealing (like in India where your hands gets chopped off for theft) or where a sanction’s goal is to pay for the crime like the death penalty when someone takes a life he pays with his ownm
The only reason why I mentioned this is to demonstrate that South Africa does acknowledge a person’s capacity to rehabilitate for it is this last theory of sanction which best accommodate with the provisions of our Constitution an therefore we don’t hang people for murder or cut hands off for theft, because we acknowledge the ability of a criminal to rehabilitate, this courtesy however stops right there, for if you are not found guilty of a crime and you find yourself as a tax paying (highest tax in the world ever) and law abiding citizen then you still suffer the burden of having to comply with all sorts of legislation to eradicate the injustices of the past not able to rehabilitate no sir, you shall pay for eternity for the crime of racism, so now you want to want to tell me how I should feel about this and when some Afrikaans person dares defends himself of the usually subtle, but recently blatant accusations of racism the very same assumption that justifies the legislation that is designed to legally discriminate against him then you will call that person stupid, prof you must sometimes bare in mind that there are still people out there who have excepted who they are and. Are comfortable where they find themselves, not to be exclusive, but simply because they are who they are where they are and if you keep asking questions about or even if a country makes legislation that criminalise it, it simply won’t go away, I may not have given my affiliation with any group here unless you want to make anassumption, but I’ll help you out and say I’m not a racist
Once again we are blessed with the opportunity to address perceptions. The one thing that above all else drives our nation. In my mind there is no debate: we are an emotional nation not an intelligent one.
Sadly, much like the Brandon Huntley incident, we have to pounce on the person brave enough to voice his/her perception for fear of being exposed/associated/judged with them. We are a pathetic bunch. Annelie’s opinion was her honest perception, however misguided, and we should be able to address perception rather easily. She afforded us an opportunity to air and debate true opinions but we are so riddled with this godforsaken PC-cancer that we dare not approach the truth for risk of being labelled by the holy keepers of righteousness (the biggest idiots in this country by a long shot).
Can you honestly say that these skewed perceptions are unique to one side of all our darling devides? Can we ever address this issue if we publicly slam people that dare put their personal views on the table. Do we not all group and judge without studying the facts? Pierre, for one, should know all about making judgements without the facts.
I say create an atmosphere where people can stand up and declare: I am a racist/bigot/idiot/member of the ANC/vengeful homosexual/human being and I need help!
Maggs, at times it is almost possible to imagine there is a brain there, somewhere…
The more I see of white South Africans, the more I admire my pitbull.
Her willingness to take on anything bigger than her, coming at her with hostile intent, no matter how uneven the odds.
Her amazing generosity of spirit and gentleness – were we not speaking of a dog, her kindness – towards children, everything smaller than her, or even just not a threat.
Her friendliness and openness toewards strangers and her willingness to give everyone and anything the benefit of the doubt.
As Voltaire said….
Your white South African is more like a Dobermann. Suspicious. Wary. Insecure. Quickly pushed into survival drive. Which all adds up to a challenge breeders have to consistently produce a Dobermann with high levels of courage and hardness.
Brett Nortje says:
November 30, 2010 at 8:50 am
Hey Brett,
“Your white South African is more like a Dobermann. Suspicious. Wary. Insecure. Quickly pushed into survival drive.”
How can anyone write such crap?
Ok, ok. I get it. Brett is not anyone.
Hello?
Did or did not we receive a request for a psychological assessment?
Dog psychology can give one great insight into human behaviour too!
You, Maggs, I would characterise as a yappy Maltese.
Brett Nortje says:
November 30, 2010 at 9:29 am
Hey Brett,
“Dog psychology can give one great insight into human behaviour too!”
hahaha.
Thanks for the revelations.
Now I know why you are so very confused.
All the psychologists, anthropologists, sociologists and other human behavioural scientists can retire gracefully, knowing that the Dog Whisperer is on hand to save humankind!
Woof, woof.
@spoiler – point well taken.
@John Roberts
In the middle of the night. white police men came, kick my family out of their homes, to latter sell those nice cottages to a specific university. They were showing guns, and hitting people in the face.
@ Prof
We had very interesting judgements in the last few weeks Makhaza Toilets, Motata, Bread fixing, RAF, Agliotti(plea bargains) etc. I hope we will be seeing one of these making it in to your chosen list.
I believe the outspoken Pikoli is not commenting on the developments under his leadership that let off the hook the confessed shooters.
@ JR
I hope you don’t want us to compare robbers and apartheid police/farmers/banks who all have brought enough sufferings to many families.
John Roberts
Pierre … perhaps you could tell us how many average working class whites have done this type of thing to blacks: ( I bet you can’t name even 1 in the last 10 years ) And this is a mild attack
Well, just to take one of many many examples …
Perhaps you missed the newspaper articles about Mark Scott-Crossley (a white person, I believe) who tenderly and lovingly threw a farm worker to the lions, but not before beating him up.
Do you require more than one recent example? Or are you specifying that the example has to be exactly the same type of violent crime?
Fantastic writing. I will take a good amout of time to toy with the site:)
Call me a racist, but whilst we’re taliking about dogs, they’re animals ,same as us people … now there’s an urban myth that white folks can’t jump and black folks can’t swim (groups) while I know a few black surfers that swim like fish, and most NBA teams have a white or two that has nothing to do with a quota system (individuals).
Coming back to dogs, I know a few people with Rottwielers and in the main they’re very friendly dogs, tho’ the few bad apples I’ve met (and stories I’ve heard) tend to make me wary when I see one I don’t know, I have a similar feeling about Whippets but not really when it comes to Labradours and Border Collies… my point, different breeds of dogs (animals) have diffentent strengths, weaknesses and characteristcs that’s genetic not learned (cultural) and the same must go for people to (seeing as we’re also animals) caucasian, negroid, aboriginy etc. are different from each other on a genetic level for good or ill and as a group may react differently given similar circumstances… throw in some cultural differences and without TOLERANCE and RESPECT we’re done for imo.
I’m a coloured (you can tell by my spelling my education level … but if you’ve got this far you know doubt realise Im a free thinker
) ie. not white nor black enough but blessed with a good enough mix of genes to survive if not thrive (as I feel I would in a racially free SA)
In the 90s I used to go into the townships regularily (from Grassy Park)
During the “Rainbow Nation” years we setup a BEE partnership before BEE came into existance we did well enough to decide to register (in order to grow) during the Mbeki years … this was VERY difficult for us and I totally understand why there are so few startup companies …so much for job creation. Post Polekwani we were no longer BEE compliant as we had taken on some skilled parters who were prepared to work toward a possibly relaxed tomorrow with very little in it today.
With no way nor incentive to go froward we dissolved and are all now doing our own thing. The unfortunate thing is that the partners from the townships are still in the townships … struggling, while the skilled partenrs have taken their skills elsewhere, apparently thriving (depending on perspective) and this can’t but build resentment … the promise was there, it was almost realised, and now for some very complicated and un-understandable reasons it’s not happening anymore is VERY frustrating.
I am building my own cave ATM associating with individuals I meet tho’ I don;t meet so many as the townships have become a no go zone for me as the group that live there makes me nervous … this is NOT good .. the solution ?
In my opinion we need two things,
1) in the short term a GOOD and STRONG leader that we ALL RESPECT … anyone out there ? …. doesn’t look too good from my perspective… Vavi does intreuge me tho’, he says something silly and does something good (actions speak louder than words)
2) in the long term EDUCATION and SKILLS … from this job creation, prosperity and respect for one another will flow…. there is some little hope there, tho’ I suspect in the main votes and part populariity are more important than results.
So here we are with resentment rising, (think poodle and mastive sharing a bonevoteing around the corner and an up-comming census just to confuse the issue … interesting tho’ not very harmonious times here in SA…. what to do ??? … and if anyone thinks leave … I have as much right to stay here and enjoy my life in this beautiful country as anyone else and I mean to excersize that right for me and a better one for my kids if I can.
Suggestion welcome.
We live in a multiracial society composed of a diverse mix of people, whether it be relative to their ethnicity, language, culture, religion and traditions. A multiracial society is not, however, as advertised on the Pick&Pay Christmas TV advertisement, where all races in south africa, one household of each race, come together to celebrate in the festivities! Every white, black coloured, indian and chinese person in SA knows that it is fake.
I believe everyone has the right to choose their friends and who they want to associate with – or should we set up a quota system to enforce multiracial friendship or else be labelled ‘cave dweller’?
Many people share the view ‘…I don’t understand them! And then I do not like them. I avoid them because I am scared of them…’. Whether you’re a Xhosa talking about his Zimbabwean neighbour, a coloured person talking about his black neighbour, a white person talking about his black neighbour etc – the statement is based on fear and not on prejudice.
Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself.
Racism is the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
When the ANC stands on public platform and sings ‘kill the boer’, or says ‘kill the cockroaches’ or even threaten their own, warning them against white rule, it instils fear into the hearts of the people of SA. This fear of each other causes people to refrain from getting to know the unknown, whether ethnical, cultural or religious.
We will always have racism, there will always be those who believe that their race is superior to any other – they can rightfully be called ‘cave dwellers’. But next time, before labeling trans racial communication/criticism/insults racists, first assess if it’s based on prejudice or if, in fact, it is based on fear of the unknown!
Here is a Spitting Image video about white South Africans’ racism. Still holds true today… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v439zTOJVho
At terence, I wasn’t going to enter the fray as I think this particular article represents trivial, superficial and predictable self-righteous bleating from Pierre – not really worthy of a response.
However, you now arrive and presumably deliberately create a fiction in order try and discredit John Roberts. The facts (which I assume your are aware of and are deliberately misrepresenting) are that Scott-Crossley was convicted of being an accessory after the fact to the crime of murder. His black workers murdered one of their own and Scott-Crossley’s crime was to assist in dumping the (already dead) body. Whether the terrain was inhabited by lions or porcupines becomes irrelevant.
By the way, he was originally convicted of murder by an AA judge who seemed determined not to let the facts get in the way of his apparently racial prejudice. It required the SCA in Bloemfontein to overturn this miscarriage of justice. Scott-Crossley has now served his term of imprisonment.
Like “honest tea” Judge Motala, this judge has not, to my knowledge, accounted for or explained how his actions.
Scott-Crossley may well be a creep, but he is also entitled to receive fair justice.
So, terence, try and find another example.
wow…
Yeah freedom of speech now seems perverted in different conspicuous dimensions, – and is used as a weapon to unearth condemnation that is buried in the hearts of many – if it favors one person/ group – it is correct; if it doesn’t – then it is prejudiced.
Compounding the effect of some of the above comments, the analysis exposes that WE lack a profound moral makeup and only exhibit pessimistic attitudes and behavior. Universal brotherhood and tolerance toward each other seems a bit far-fetched…. Reading some of the comments above is a manifestation that change, racial tolerance, bridging the social divide brought by the segregation regime, improving racial cohesion is still a distant light for other people… I always refrain from political indulgences and racial communiqué – because it stills a sensitive issue within our country despite the 16 years into ‘a’ democratic led governance…
I remember in late 1980’s coming from watching one of Sylvester Stallone’s movies – Rambo…. When suddenly soldiers (white) – shot tear-gas canisters in a group of black teenagers on the streets (coming from the movies) – I was one of them, in Clermont… running away… coughing, falling, crying… and I got picked up by one of the soldiers – - – he took out a knife and stabbed me on the left hand… and I was whipped into a full throttle of escapade…. I still have the scar as a reminder… Apart from many incidents I witnessed – It didn’t make me consume anger or hatred towards white people or something… because years later – I found myself enrolled in Afrikaaners schools.
I hope that somewhere down the aging times of our country – there will be an absolute racial tolerance and racial cohesion – that will give birth to moral regeneration and a fruitful lifestyle of social acceptance… THEN the extinction of an abrasive racial division and racial intolerance will be the monumental truths of better living for all South Africans!!! It is TRULY deserved!!!
@ Graham
Good try!!
How about Fidentia, Eugene Terreblanche?
Or we don’t count them if they are wearing suits and smiling.
Police on Wednesday denied there was a link between a North West farmer who beat seven of his workers and pointed a gun at them and Terre’Blanche’s murder.
Forty two-year old Johannes van Rensburg was released on R7 000 bail on Wednesday.
The police said the two incidents were unrelated but Cosatu’s Solly Phetoe said the attack was linked to Terre’Blanche’s murder.
“We are very sure that this case might be linked to what happened in Ventersdorp to Eugene Terre’Blanche,” said Phetoe.
@ Gwebe
Most people seem to fear street criminals, hijackers and housebreakers, more intensely than they fear financial fraudsters, price manipulators, people who appropriate widows’ pension funds, and tenderpreneurs.
If you reflect for a moment, you will realise that criminals in suits probably inflict more damage on society, and more real human suffering, than those whose weakness compels them to use brute violence. (Much more money is stolen by criminals armed with pens than by those wielding guns.)
But most people – even well regarded Afrikaans writers – simply are not rational enough to weigh immediate and obvious dangers (the crimes of the poor), against the much more damaging depradations of the rich.
Gwebecimele says:
November 30, 2010 at 14:32 pm
Hey Gwebs,
If it would add any value to the debate, at least the following could be pointed out :
Nov 25, 2010 Maliwa Ngwenya, his wife and gardener had gone to their daughter’s home in Springs to help her re-paint the house and do the garden.
Four men, who were later joined by two women, arrived and told them that they were intruders and must either leave or show them papers proving that they own the house.
They then started assaulting Ngwenya and his gardener.
Or
Jun 25, 2010 Two men accused of a racist attack in which Oupa Bethuel Randa was beaten to death and an off duty policeman was assaulted have appeared in the Zeerust Magistrate’s Court.
Martinus Smith, 23, and Jonas Lubbe, 31, were released on bail of R1000 each. The case against them was postponed until June 30, said Lieutenant-General Lesetja Beetha.
Or
Jun 17, 2009 ALBERTON, south of Johannesburg, has been labelled a racist town after recent attacks on store workers and car guards by drunk locals.
But I am confident that both John Roberts and Graham are acutely aware that these type of incidents are commonplace.
There has to be a point that both have tried to make – it will be interesting to see what their respective points were.
Hey Gwebe, I think the trick was to answer John Roberts’ original challenge, not to offer examples of badly behaving whiteys, of which I am sure there are plenty. Incidentally, Fidentia honcho Arthur Brown appears to be precisely that – brown!
If you want to labour this issue, please give an appropriate example of whites invading homes and inflicting such cruelty with children involved, as per JR’s original request.
@ Michael
Absolutely spot on.
@ Maggs
This is another evidence of denial amongst many whites.
Here is another good example of a standard business practice.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-11-29-sabmiller-accused-of-tax-evasion-in-india-and-africa
UNTIL WE START TREATING CRIME, VIOLENCE AND DEATHS THE SAME, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE RACE, CLASS OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED, WE ARE GOING NOWHERE SLOWLY.
Gwebecimele says:
November 30, 2010 at 15:13 pm
Gwebs,
I just love the way Seinfeld (aka Barry B Benson) yells in court about bees “living out our lives as honey slaves to the white man”.
We of course are in a different time and space. It’s somewhat worrying that we seem to be headed towards a victim mentality which is a function more of our inability to rise above the pettiness rather than the superiority or dominance of race.
As Michael Osborne (says:November 30, 2010 at 14:53 pm) accurately notes the real “immediate and obvious dangers (the crimes of the poor), against the much more damaging depradations of the rich.” (well noted Michael).
Those perpetuators are not race confined although the majority of victims are Black, particularly African, people. We can add to tha,t for example, the unions which encourage the exploitation of the most vulnerable in our society (learners, the aged or the ill) by protecting those who do.
I am really bothered by Pierre’s writing that (b)ut in South Africa, the law and our Constitution have also become rather dangerous tools that are used to stifle debate and prevent serious engagement with important issues of the day which I think has no proper basis, than I am by the trivia of Ms Annelie or Ms Sunette or John Ross or Graham.
But let’s read why he thinks that if and when he responds.
Do you really want to start playing the ‘othering’ game again? You know you always lose….
Remind me quickly, which national political party is Appealing in the Courts to be allowed to continue inciting racial hatred including murder?
ok, Graham
I think the demand for ‘an appropriate’ example is a bit silly. All sorts of violence is perpetrated on children in all sorts of ways by all races: Dirk Prinsloo and Cezanne Visser, for instance.
But, since you ask, there’s Johan Nel who shot, among others, a three-month-old baby in Skierlik. Or Piet Odendaal, who tied a worker to the back of his bakkie, then dragged him round til he died. (oops, no child involved there; can’t count that one then.)
Or Bees Roux who beat a black policeman to death. But, of course, before you point it out to me, the jury’s still out on that one.
Then there’s the whiteys who still get black people to do their dirty work – Cougar Wotsit springs to mind.
No doubt you will challenge each of my examples and their relevance. But, as you say, let’s not flog this dead horse.
No, Terence, you’re not getting off so easily.
Give us the numbers.
I say your statement “many many examples” is a bald-faced lie.
Your exhaustive ‘examples’ from different years being indicative.
I also say that the amount of violence perpetrated on black victims by whites is statistically insignificant compared to vice versa.
Maggs, I’ll get around to your showing glimpses of a brain soon, since it is related to Terence’s post.
(Maggs – historically, LOL! I’ve deterred him somewhat – being this blog’s ‘otherer’ par excellence.)
Nou wat de donner het van Annelie Botes se storie geword?
Brett Nortje says:
November 30, 2010 at 17:26 pm
Hey Dufus,
What are you going on about?
Did you greet your neighbours yet?
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Man-dood-in-selle-na-polisie-glo-aanrand-20101128
Man dood in selle ná polisie glo aanrand
2010-11-29 00:28
Amanda Roestoff
’n Man van Northcliff, in die noordweste van Johannesburg, is in die aanhoudingselle van die Florida-polisiekantoor in Roodepoort dood nadat hy glo deur die polisie aangerand is.
Mnr. Riaan Petrus Velloen (37), ’n tegnikus wat veiligheidskameras geïnstalleer het, is glo enkele ure tevore aangekeer omdat hy glo dronk op straat was.
Daar word beweer dat die twee beamptes wat Velloen in hegtenis geneem het, hom so aangerand het dat hy aan sy wonde beswyk het in die sel waar hy aangehou is om nugter te word.
Velloen is glo nie aangekla weens enige misdryf toe hy dood is nie.
Me. Ria Hogan (50), die ouma van Velloen se seun, Kevin Hogan (15), het gesê Velloen was nie ’n drinker nie.
“My dogter (wie se identiteit sy nie bekend wil maak nie) het Vrydagoggend ’n oproep van Riaan se suster ontvang. Daar is toe gesê hy (Riaan) is so geslaan voordat hy by die polisiestasie opgedaag en in die selle gesit is. Ons het geen idee waar hy gearresteer is nie,” het Hogan gesê.
Velloen was nie meer in ’n verhouding met die biologiese ma van sy kind nie.
Lt.kol. Lungelo Dlamini, Gautengse polisiewoordvoerder, het bevestig Velloen is in polisieaanhouding dood.
“’n Moorddossier is geopen om alle beweringe om die voorval te ondersoek.
“Sodra die uitslae van die lykskouing ontvang is, sal ons bepaal of hy (Velloen) aan natuurlike oorsake dood is of nie,” het Dlamini gesê.
Nie eens die naaste familie of vriende weet waar Velloen in Johannesburg of Roodepoort gearresteer is nie.
“Hy was die liefdevolste mens,” het Hogan gesê. “Hy sou altyd probeer om jou tevrede te stel, al moet hy homself indoen.”
Vir haar is die hartseerste die manier waarop hy dood is.
“Die polisie moet daar wees om mense te beskerm … ’n mens kan hulle nie meer vertrou nie,” het Hogan bygevoeg.
Velloen se seun, Kevin, het gesê sy pa het “altyd geluister wat ek sê en ek sal die spesiale dinge wat ons saam gedoen het, die meeste mis”.
Die begrafnisreëlings is nog nie gefinaliseer nie. Velloen se oorskot word by die Roodepoort-lykshuis gehou terwyl die ondersoek voortduur.
Die polisie wou nie aandui of enige van die arrestasiebeamptes departementeel of strafregtelik aangekla sal word nie.
Solly Phetoe is a racist scumbag
In The Citizen Wed May 21, 2008
Man arrested over shooting ‘burglars’
CATHY THOMPSON
JOAHHNESBURG – Police arrested a 26-year-old man yesterday, and
charged him with murder and attempted murder after he allegedly shot
dead a burglar and wounded another through a locked door in his
parents’ farmhouse.
Jaco Swart, of Delareyville, told police the men were tampering with
the lock and trying to gain entry to the bedroom where he was
sleeping at 2am last Friday.
North West police spokesman Captain Aafje Botma told The Citizen
this week police had to free Swart from the bedroom when they
arrived.
She also said they found electrical appliances outside the house,
ready for removal by the suspected thieves.
The incident has unleashed a political storm, with Cosatu North West
secretary Solly Phetoe claiming it was racist. Cosatu compared the
shooting of the two to the shooting of 10 people in the informal
settlement of Skielik.
I am carrying both emotional and physical scars of Apartheid. The reason I voted for ANC in 1994 was because I wanted a government that will protect me from abuse, subjugation and oppression of man by man.
Annelie Botes does not like me. So what?
If she is in a position to inflict pain and suffering on me because she does not like me, then the government I put in power is failing me.
I did not vote to get sympathy from other races. I did not vote so that I may be liked by non-Blacks. I voted for empowerment. If I am empowered, then it makes no difference how the likes of Annelie Botes feel about me.
I just applaud Annelie for her boldness and honesty. I hope nothing bad happens to her. The government has a job to do – empower all the people, then we may see changes in behavior and attitudes in all men.
@Dumisani Mkhize. Your comment is brilliant!! Thank you.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-12-01-hands-off-anneli-botes
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2010-12-02-to-know-us-is-to-like-us
Dumisane, you’re the man!
Wish we could all be so mature.
Terence, would you care to withdraw your silly dishonest generalisation?
Remind us quickly how many farm murders there were during the World Cup?
Does this strike you as a modus vivendi between black and white?
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Rowers-stel-kind-tereg-20101202
Rowers stel kind tereg
2010-12-02 23:10
Jana van der Merwe en MJ Lourens
Lindley. – Plaasaanvallers het ‘n driejarige meisietjie alleen na ‘n buitekamer geneem en haar koelbloedig doodgeskiet – vermoedelik omdat hulle bang was sy sou hulle later kon uitken.
Daarna het hulle haar lykie – nog met ‘n pienk strikkie in haar rooi haartjies – gevat en by die lyk van haar ma in die hoofslaapkamer van die plaashuis gaan gooi.
Na verneem word, is klein Willemien Potgieter en haar ma, Wilna (36), albei in teregstelling-styl in die agterkop geskiet.
Willemientjie, soos sy genoem is, se pa, mnr. Attie Potgieter (40), se lyk is later buite langs ‘n heining naby die huis se agterdeur aangetref.
Die aanvallers het hom vermoedelik hier oorval en met ‘n skerp voorwerp, vermoedelik ‘n panga, op die agterkop doodgekap, en vermoedelik ook met ‘n tuinvurk gesteek.
Toe hulle padgee, het die moordenaars die volgende boodskap in Sotho op ‘n stuk karton op die hek van die plaas Twee-fontein gelos: “Ons het hulle doodgemaak. Ons kom terug.”
Drie plaaswerkers is gister in verband met die drie moorde in hegtenis geneem, en later die dag nog twee verdagtes, onder wie glo ‘n 17-jarige, in townships in die omgewing.
Teen druktyd gisteraand was nog ‘n verdagte soek.
Die Potgieter-egpaar sou vandeesweek hul 11de huweliksherdenking gevier het.
“Dis nog half onwerklik. Dit was ‘n bitter, bitter groot skok,” het mnr. Arno Potgieter van die buurplaas Van Tondersrust gister oor die moorde op sy broer, skoonsuster en Willemien gesê.
Die lyke is gisteroggend gekry.
Die gesin was vermoedelik tydens die aanval alleen tuis. Daar was glo nog ‘n bord kos in die mikrogolfoond.
By die besoek van Beeld se susterskoerant Volksblad gister vroeg aan die plaas het mnr. Potgieter se lyk nog toegegooi onder ‘n pienk kombers gelê op die plek waar hy dood is.
Na verneem word, het mnr. Potgieter vermoedelik eergistermiddag sowat R7 000 kontant vir lone gaan trek.
Die drie verdagtes wat in die townships woon, het die plaaswerkers na bewering elk sowat R500 betaal vir inligting oor die gesin se bewegings.
Mev. Potgieter, wat jare lank by die Oos-Vrystaat Kaap Bedryf (OVK) se Arlington-tak gewerk het, was ten tyde van haar dood assistent-takbestuurder.
Mnr. Potgieter het net toesig gehou oor Tweefontein vir mnr. Alex Macaskill, wat op Marquard woon, en self op die naburige plaas, waar sy broer Arno woon, met beeste geboer.
Die verdagtes is ná flinke werk van polisielede van verskeie Vrystaatse eenhede in hegtenis geneem.
Volgens kol. Sam Makhele, provinsiale polisiewoordvoerder, is die meeste van die verdagtes in die 20.
Bebloede kredietkaarte en ‘n bebloede 9 mm-vuurwapen is in ‘n plakkershut naby Lindley gevind. Nog ‘n vuurwapen is later op die toneel gekry.
Charles Smith berig mnr. André Botha, voorsitter van Agri SA se komitee vir landelike veiligheid, het in sy reaksie gesê Suid-Afrika behoort hom te skaam vir dié mense in sy bevolking wat ‘n driejarige kind en haar ouers wreed vermoor.
“Die kind was géén bedreiging vir hulle nie.
“Jy kan net een gevolgtrekking maak: Dit is ‘n siek gemeenskap, ‘n siek samelewing en dis siek mense wat dit doen.”
Die ses mans het “tot die uiterste gegaan” terwyl hulle die Potgieters waarskynlik net kon beroof het.
“Dit sê iets van ons samelewing. Hier is ‘n gebrek aan moraliteit en ‘n gebrek aan respek vir mense se lewe.”
Die regering het wel onlangs sy stem begin dik maak oor misdaad, maar ná die gru-moorde is niks gesê nie, het Botha gesê.
“Ek wonder hoekom is hulle nou so stil?” het hy gevra.
“Watter kans het ‘n vrou en kind teen ses mans? Om daarna nog die man in te wag en ook te vermoor, is barbaars.”
Die moorde is nie die ANC se skuld nie, maar is ‘n “lafhartige voorval van misdaad”.
“Die vraag is wat die res van ons doen.
“Die vraag is wat doen hul gemeenskap met sulke mense. Hulle moet dié mense uitspoeg,” het Botha gesê.
Politieke partye en die burgerregte-organisasie AfriForum het ook gister sterk op die moorde gereageer en weer verwys na die moontlike uitwerking van omstrede slagspreuke en struggle-liedjies met woorde soos “dubul’ ibhunu” (skiet die Boer).
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Seuns-skiet-vrou-toe-sy-nie-sak-gee-20101202
‘Seuns’ skiet vrou toe sy nie sak gee
2010-12-02 23:45
André Damons
Rowers het ‘n vrou gisteroggend by ‘n vulstasie in Boksburg-Noord koelbloedig doodgeskiet toe hulle haar handsak wou gryp en sy haar teëgesit het.
“Hoekom het hulle nie net haar sak gegryp nie? Daar was niks geld in nie en hulle het nie eens haar foon gevat nie,” het me. Daleen Hennings (51) se man, Louis, gesê.
Die egpaar besit die Excel-vulstasie in Hoofrifweg.
Hennings het vertel sy vrou was op pad poskantoor toe om hul motors se lisensies af te haal toe die voorval gebeur het.
Sy sou daarna by vriende gaan kuier het.
Hennings was in die bank toe hy die nuus van haar skietdood kry.
Volgens kapt. Petros Mabuza, polisiewoordvoerder, het drie mans me. Hennings omstreeks 10:30 buite die vulstasie se kantoor oorval terwyl sy op pad na haar motor was.
“Hulle het haar handsak probeer gryp, maar sy wou nie laat gaan nie. Sy het haar teëgesit en toe skiet hulle haar twee keer in die bolyf en vlug met die handsak.”
Hennings het gesê hy en sy vrou het gereeld by die vulstasie gaan inloer omdat hulle “pensioentrekkers is en eindelik meer op vakansie was”.
“Sy sou die 28ste Desember verjaar het. Ons eerste kleinseun is onlangs gebore en my ander seun se vrou kraam in Februarie.
“Nou moet die kinders sonder hul ouma grootword.
“Die ANC sê dit is ‘n vry land, maar dit is net vry vir die misdadigers, want hulle kan doen wat hulle wil. Gewone burgers moet altyd oor hul skouer kyk.”
‘n Ooggetuie het op die toneel gesê twee seuns het die vrou oorval en na die plakkerskamp oorkant die pad gehardloop nadat hulle haar geskiet het.
Mabuza het gesê die polisie volg inligting op.
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Man-sterf-2-weke-na-rooftog-20101201
Man sterf ná rooftog
2010-12-01 23:56
Marietie Louw-Carstens
‘n Bekende inwoner van Vaalwater in Limpopo is dood nadat sy moordenaars sowat twee weke gelede ‘n gordel om sy nek gebind en hom daarmee in sy huis rondgesleep het.
Mnr. Andrew Fourie (62) se geliefde Jack Russell-hondjie, Snottie, is tydens die aanval voor hom doodgeskiet.
‘n Bebloede en erg beseerde Fourie het sowat tien uur lank bewusteloos langs die dooie hondjie gelê voordat ‘n buurman opgedaag het.
Mev. Elvera Fourie, sy vrou, het gister huilend vertel hy is eergister in die Steve Biko-hospitaal in Pretoria dood.
“Hy kon nog soveel vir die samelewing beteken het … Nou is hy net nog ‘n syfer van die misdaad in Suid-Afrika.”
Die egpaar sou vandag hul 15de huweliksherdenking gevier het.
Fourie is die aand van 18 November omstreeks 21:00 in sy huurhuis op die Boschpoort-plaas oorval. Sy vrou was in Pretoria.
Volgens haar het haar man gesê drie mans het ingebreek en hom in die hoofslaapkamer oorval. Hy was sieklik en het artritis gehad.
“Hulle het aangehou om hom oor die kop te slaan. Hulle het ‘n belt om sy nek gebind en hom daaraan deur die huis gesleep.”
Snottie het glo na van die aanvallers gebyt toe hy doodgeskiet
is.
“Hulle het hom vreeslik geskop en in ‘n kamer in die huis vasgebind. Daar was oral bloed, aan die mure en die gordyne ook.”
Fourie se hande, wat kromgetrek was van artritis, was stukkend geslaan.
Nadat die aanvallers in Fourie se bakkie probeer vlug het, het hy hom losgewikkel en teruggekruip na die hoofslaapkamer waar Snottie dood gelê het.
“Hy het gesê ‘n ruk later het die mans teruggekom en ‘n kussing oor sy kop gedruk en hom probeer versmoor. Hy het gemaak of hy dood is.”
Hy het daarna sy bewussyn verloor.
Mnr. Hannes Haasbroek, ‘n buurman, het die volgende oggend omstreeks 08:00 op die bewustelose Fourie afgekom. Hy het onraad vermoed omdat Fourie nie sy selfoon geantwoord het nie. Die aanvallers het Fourie se selfoon en gewere gesteel.
Mev. Fourie het gesê haar man het grade in die onderwys en natuurkunde gehad. Hy was ook ‘n voormalige voorsitter van die boerevereniging in Vaalwater. ‘n Roudiens word oormôre 10:00 in die NG kerk in Vaalwater gehou.
Niemand is nog weens die aanval in hegtenis geneem nie.
Terence, lets not forget this is what I could find in one newspaper roughly for the duration of the ANC’s Appeal against the ban of their favourite ditty ‘Kill the Farmer’…
What do have to say for yourself? Wiped your mouth yet? (OK, your keyboard…)
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Oud-onnie-74-in-haar-huis-doodgeskiet-20101129
Oud-onnie (74) in haar huis doodgeskiet
2010-11-30 00:00
Nicolize van der Walt
Klerksdorp. – ‘n Geliefde oudonderwyseres wat bykans 35?jaar by Klerksdorp Primary skoolgehou het, is gisteroggend in haar spoghuis in Elmstraat, Irenepark, vermoor.
Familie en vriende het mekaar omhels en vertroos voor die klinkersteenhuis waar mev. Ann Pederson (74) oorval en vermoor is.
Pederson en haar man, Torben, ‘n sakeman van die stad, het nagenoeg 34 jaar in dié huis in die boomryke voorstad gewoon.
Polisielede het die toneel waar mev. Pederson gister kort ná 08:00 vermoor is laatmiddag nog gefynkam vir leidrade. Beeld het verneem daar word onder meer gesoek na ‘n tuinwerker wat hulle kan help met inligting oor die moord.
Mev. Pederson is vermoedelik met haar man se vuurwapen geskiet.
Die vuurwapen was teen druktyd nog soek. Sy het glo ook verskeie steek- en snywonde opgedoen. Dit is onbekend wat alles uit die huis gebuit is.
Mev. Pederson het glo kort nadat haar man werk toe gery het die noodknoppie gedruk.
Mnr. Pederson en die veiligheidsmaatskappy het tegelyk by die moordhuis aangekom. ‘n Ambulans is ontbied, maar mev. Pederson is op die toneel dood verklaar. Geharde polisiemanne was geskok oor wat hulle aangetref het.
Daar is onmiddellik begin om leidrade, ook met behulp van ‘n polisiehond, op te volg. Terugvoering oor die ondersoek is
deurentyd aan naasbestaandes en vriende gegee wat in die warm son op nuus gewag het.
“Sy het almal liefgehad. Dit het nie saak gemaak of hulle wit of swart of bruin was nie. Sy was ‘n omgee-mens wat lief was vir die natuur,” het mnr. Pederson gesê. Die egpaar sou op 12 Desember hul 51ste huweliksherdenking gevier het.
Die Pedersons is bekend om hul aktiewe deelname in die gemeenskap en was betrokke by die Rotariërklub in die stad.
Mede-Rotariërlede het mnr. Pederson gister om die beurt vertroos.
Mnr. Mike Murray het sy skoonma as die “perfekte skoonma” beskryf. Mnr. Pederson het by tye voor die huis gestaan en wag op nuus oor die ondersoek en ander kere oor sy huis se muur gaan loer.
Me. Petro Nel, ‘n gesinsvriend van die Pedersons en ook ‘n DA-lid in die stadsraad, was een van die emosionele omstanders buite waar sy haar misnoeë met misdaad te kenne gegee het. Sy het mev. Pederson as ” ‘n dierbare vriendin en mens” beskryf.
“Sy het diep spore getrap in die gemeenskap. Geen mens verdien om so te sterf nie … Dis so ongelooflik sleg.”
Mev. Pederson word ook oorleef deur twee dogters, mevv. Ingrid Murray en Karen Walstra en vier kleinkinders.
http://www.nuus24.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Bejaarde-vrou-op-plaas-vermoor-20101203
Bejaarde vrou op plaas vermoor
2010-12-03 15:19
Johannesburg – ‘n 63-jarige vrou is dood en haar man ernstig beseer tydens ‘n aanval op hul plaas naby Moedwil buite
Rustenburg, het die departement van gemeenskapsveiligheid in Noordwes Vrydag gesê.
“Die bejaarde vrou en haar 62-jarige man is Donderdagmiddag omstreeks 16:00 op hulle plaas, Hartbeesfontein, aangeval,” het Lesiba Moses Kgwele, woordvoerder, in ‘n verklaring gesê.
Na bewering was die paartjie se hande en voete met elektriese kabels vasgebind.
Die man kon daarin slaag om te ontsnap en het sy plaaswerkers gevra om hulp te ontbied. Hy is in die Peglerae-hospitaal
opgeneem met ernstige hoofbeserings.
Ses vuurwapens, drie selfone en die egpaar se bakkie is tydens die voorval gesteel.
Die polisie het nou ‘n reuse-soektog van stapel gestuur om die verdagtes vas te trek.
http://www.nuus24.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Drie-dood-gevind-op-Limpopo-plaas-20101116
Drie dood gevind op Limpopo-plaas
2010-11-16 16:52
Johannesburg – ‘n Bejaarde paartjie en een van hul werkers is Dinsdag op ‘n plaas in Vivo vermoor, het die polisie in Limpopo gesê.
‘n Persoon wat ‘n tipe oes wou koop het Dinsdagoggend na die plaas gegaan, het lt.kol. Ronel Otto gesê.
Die man kon niemand by die huis vind nie. Hy is daarna na die plaaswerker se huis toe waar hy die werker se lyk gevind en die polisie gebel het.
Die polisie het na die plaashuis gegaan en die lyk van ‘n vrou, wat vermoedelik in haar 60′s is, in die huis gekry.
Volgens Otto was die vrou se hande aan mekaar vasgebind.
Die vrou se man en die paartjie se motor was weg, het sy gesê.
Polisie en boere in die omgewing het op die plaas rondgesoek en die lyk van die eienaar gevind.
Sy liggaam was aan waterpype wat van die dam na die plaas lei, vasgebind.
Die motor is 20m van die man se lyk af opgespoor.
Niemand is sover in hegtenis geneem nie, het Otto gesê.
http://www.nuus24.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Bejaarde-boer-vermoor-20101108-2
Bejaarde boer vermoor
2010-11-08 08:16
Earl Coetzee
Volksblad
Bloemfontein – ‘n Bloedbevlekte kous, kussingsloop en lap is die stille getuienis van die grusame moord op ‘n bejaarde boer van Bloemspruit.
Dié drie artikels lê in die kamer in 23 Dennelaan, Bloemspruit, waar Callie Steyn Vrydagmiddag laat op die lyk van sy pa, Barend Steyn (73), afgekom het.
‘n Verdagte is Sondag in die omgewing van die hoewe vasgetrek.
Nog inhegtenisnemings kan volg.
Steyn jr. het Sondag aan Volksblad vertel hoe ‘n besoek aan sy pa Vrydag kort voor 18:00 in ‘n nagmerrie verander het.
“Ek het in die erf ingery en vir my pa geskree, want hy kom gewoonlik uit om te groet net nadat ek ingery het.”
Toe sy pa nie uitkom nie, het Steyn deur die oop agterdeur die huis ingegaan .
Alles was deurmekaar. Hy het uitgehardloop en vir sy vrou gesê om nie uit die motor te klim nie.
“Ek het weer ingegaan.
“Toe sien ek my pa in die tweede slaapkamer op die grond.
“Ek het eers gedink hy is geskiet, want ek het net bloed gesien.”
Die vermoorde Steyn het op sy maag gelê.
“‘n Stuk lap was om sy kop en nek gedraai. Sy hande was agter sy rug vasgebind.
“Ek het hom omgedraai, die lap verwyder en gekyk of hy nog lewe.
Ek het gevoel vir ‘n pols, maar hy was koud,” het sy huilende seun vertel.
Langs sy pa se lyk het ‘n piksteel en ‘n strykyster, wat steeds ingeprop was, gelê.
Die piksteel, strykyster en ‘n ysterstaaf is vermoedelik gebruik om Steyn te vermoor.
In die kamer waarin hy vermoor is, was ‘n kluis.
‘n Hoekslyper is in die kamer gekry en ‘n breekyster het teen die bed gestaan.
Elektriese toestelle en kruideniersware in sakke is in die gange gepak, gereed om verwyder te word.
Callie en sy broer, Bennie, het begin om die waardevolle artikels en vee van die hoewe te verwyder, sodat dit nie gesteel word nie.
Hulle het ook veiligheidswagte aangestel om die hoewe te bewaak.
Die polisie se eenheid teen georganiseerde misdaad, die Valke, het Sondag ‘n man weens die moord op hul pa in hegtenis geneem.
Die verdagte is in Bloemspruit vasgetrek.
Nog verdagtes kan binnekort in hegtenis geneem word.
Kapt. Elsa Gerber, polisiewoordvoerder, sê die vermoorde Steyn is Vrydag omstreeks 14:30 laas gesien, toe hy van die stad teruggekeer het.
“Dit is die skokkendste van dit alles,” sê Bennie Steyn. “Dat dit helder oordag kon gebeur.”
Hy het telkemale vergeefs sy pa gesmeek om by hom op sy hoewe te gaan bly.
“Hy het ‘n eenvoudige lewe gelei. Hy het jare lank op die spoorweë gewerk.
“Dit was sy droom om te boer.
“Toe hy 20 jaar gelede afgetree het, het hy die hoewe gekoop en begin boer.
“Hy het almal gehelp en almal rondgery,” sê Callie Steyn.
“Hy het juis Vrydagoggend ‘n vrou ingery stad toe om haar pensioen te trek.”
Steyn was ‘n geliefde inwoner in Bloemspruit.
Die Steyn-broers hoop iets kan gedoen word om bejaardes wat op hoewes en plase woon meer bewus te maak van veiligheid, om soortgelyke voorvalle te keer.
- Volksblad
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Sy-is-nou-by-Jesus-20101203
‘Sy is nou by Jesus’
2010-12-03 21:47
Vicus Bürger
Lindley. – As Willemientjie Potgieter se ouma hartseer was, het die driejarige meisietjie na haar gekom en gesê: “Ouma moenie huil nie; jy maak my hart seer.”
Gister moes mev. Bokkie van Staden telkens die trane probeer keer terwyl sy gepraat het oor dié kleinkind, wie se wrede dood vandeesweek die land geskud het.
“Ek het haar grootgemaak. Ek het haar gebad, aangetrek en kos gegee. Dit was vir my lekker.”
Mev. Van Staden het Willemientjie daagliks opgepas terwyl haar ouers, mnr. Attie en mev. Wilna Potgieter, gewerk het.
Die Potgieter-gesin is Woensdag deur plaasaanvallers vermoor op die plaas Tweefontein in dié omgewing. Na verneem word, het die aanvallers, nadat hulle haar ma doodgeskiet het, vir Willemientjie na ’n buitekamer geneem en haar daar in teregstellingstyl in die agterkop geskiet.
Hulle was vermoedelik bang dat sy hulle sou kon uitken. Haar lykie is daarna by dié van haar ma, wat ook in die agterkop geskiet is, in die plaashuis gaan neersit.
Mnr. Potgieter is buite oorval en vermoedelik met ’n panga agter die kop doodgekap en vermoedelik ook met ’n tuinvurk gesteek.
Ses verdagtes – onder wie drie plaaswerkers – is eergister in hegtenis geneem. ’n Storm van skok en walging oor die barbaarsheid van die moorde het gister gewoed.
Van Staden het gister gesê Willemientjie is “nou by Liewe Jesus”.
Sy het al haar kinders en kleinkinders van God geleer. “Ek sal hulle almal graag weer in die hemel wil sien.”
Volgens haar was Willemientjie ’n “regte plaasmeisietjie”. Sy het daarvan gehou om buite in die sandput of met ’n bal te speel. Sy het graag trampolien gespring en dit vreeslik geniet as sy saam met haar ma of pa op die vierwielmotorfiets kon ry.
Sy was ’n liefdevolle mensie en was ook baie lief vir diere.
Mnr. Arno Potgieter van die plaas Van Tondersrust het gister gesê sy vermoorde broer het uit sy pad gegaan om ander te help.
Hy het sy werkers goed behandel. Hy het hulle Vrydae na die plakkerskamp gebring waar van hulle gewoon het en Sondae weer gaan oplaai. Hy het vir hulle ook geld geleen.
Volgens hom was sy broer baie lief vir sy vrou en kind en sou hulle met sy lewe beskerm het.
“Dit is onaanvaarbaar wat met hulle gebeur het. As die doodstraf nie teruggebring word nie, gaan dié soort goed nie stop nie.”
Kol. Motantsi Makhele, polisiewoordvoerder, het gesê drie van die verdagtes is op Tweefontein in hegtenis geneem. Drie ander vermeende moordenaars is in die Ntha-woonbuurt buite Lindley vasgetrek. Hulle is almal tussen 17 en 42 jaar oud.
Hulle verskyn Maandag in die Lindley-landdroshof.
Boere in die Oos-Vrystaat het gister gesê die regering móét nou daadwerklik ingryp om die “sinnelose” en “barbaarse” aanvalle op boere stop te sit.
Mnr. Andy Purchase van die plaas Chicago in die distrik Arlington het gesê dit is “’n swart dag vir almal”.
Almal is kwesbaar op plase: “Jy kan nie 100% van die tyd agter jou kyk nie. Hy het gesê die moorde op die Potgieters was “boosaardig”.
“Watter haat dra mense in hulle om so iets te doen?”
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Kapers-skiet-jonge-voor-ma-se-huis-dood-20101203
Kapers skiet jonge voor ma se huis dood
2010-12-03 21:11
Virginia Keppler en Armand Fourie
’n Pa van Pretoria-Wes is voor sy ma se huis doodgeskiet, kort nadat hy daar stilgehou het om vir haar te sê hy is veilig ná ’n aand uit en op pad huis toe.
’n Mislukte motorkaping het mnr. Hein Roos (31) se lewe eergisternag geëis.
Hy en sy vrou, Petra, en hul kinders, Bianca (9) en Deon (17), woon sowat twee blokke van sy ma af.
Mnr. Pieter Roos het gesê dit lyk of sy broer net in sy wit Volkswagen Golf geklim het toe die kapers hom deur die oop venster geskiet het.
“Hy is in die bors en deur die long geskiet.
“Ek was in die huis aan die slaap toe ek van die skoot wakker geword het.”
Mev. Ria Roos het ná die eerste skoot uitgehardloop, waarna nog twee skote geklap het. Pieter het gesê hy vermoed die misdadigers het dalk op sy ma ook geskiet toe sy by die deur uitgekom het.
Hy het ook uitgehardloop en gesien hoe die mans (vermoedelik twee) in Projektiellaan afhardloop. “My broer het op die grond by die kar gelê. My ma het terug in die huis gehardloop om die polisie te bel.”
Mnr. Johan Robinson, ’n buurman, het ook uitgehardloop toe hy die skote hoor. “Ek het iemand hoor skree: ‘Help! Help!’,” het hy vertel.
“Ek en my vrou het dadelik die polisie gebel. Hulle het my drie keer teruggebel om die spelling van die straat reg te kry.”
Die ambulans het volgens Robinson eers sowat 40 minute later op die toneel opgedaag.
“Ek sê altyd vir my vrou as iets met my gebeur, moet sy eerder ’n breakdown-trok bel, want dan sal ek nog kans hê om te oorleef. Ek dink die breakdown-ouens moet almal in noodhulp opgelei word,” het hy gesê.
Pieter het Hein intussen met die hulp van ander bure in sy motor gelaai en na die Pretoria-Wes-hospitaal gejaag, waar hy by aankoms dood verklaar is.
Robinson het ’n hoed, wat vermoedelik aan een van die moordenaars behoort, op die toneel opgetel. Die polisie het drie patroondoppies opgetel.
Konst. Nare Setati, polisiewoordvoerder, het gesê die polisie kan nie die voorval bevestig nie, al was daar vier polisievoertuie op die toneel.
[...] hy is nie ‘n rassis nie? Dit lyk of mens net ‘n Saffer kan wees as jy hoogheilig aan kan gaan oor Annelie Botes (soos Pierre de Vos en die M&G joernaliste met Afrikaanse [...]
HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!
RAINBOW NATION AT ITS BEST.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/entertainment/article799615.ece/Steve-starts-race-row
Gwebecimele says:
December 6, 2010 at 7:52 am
Hey Gwebs,
Isn’t it astounding that people will use any opportunity to spew their hatred?
The opportunity to indulge in their vicious racism manifests for even in the brutal murder of this innocent and helpless toddler.
It’s hard to escape the thoughts that some among us even look forward, with glee, to the awful brutality to perpetuate their bigoted perversions.
But I suppose that is the consequence of decades, if not centuries, of the iniquity which all South Africans are victims of.
Bullshit, Maggs!
You cannot controvert the facts so you try to discredit the messenger.
Brett Nortje says:
December 6, 2010 at 8:30 am
Hey Brett,
The facts are that an innocent, helpless and harmless toddler has been murdered.
Hofmeyer, and you, are using that awful and brutal murder, to spill out racist perversions.
Sickos!
Really?
I thought I was posting excerpts from one newspaper for the duration of the ANC’s Appeal of a Court Order barring the ANC from publicly resorting to hate-speech.
One would have thought a common sense of decency and the fact that we find ourselves in the 21st century would have been inducement enough for the atavistic ANC to refrain from hate speech making the necessity for Court Orders to stop their hate-speech unimaginable.
Are you calling the Beeld racist, Maggs?
Or is it the truth that you regard as racist?
Brett Nortje says:
December 6, 2010 at 10:23 am
Hey Brett,
Normal people are shocked, angry, disturbed, apalled, disgusted by the murder of the innocent child.
You, basking in what you see as the glory of opportunity from the dastardly deed enjoying in the opportunity to get five minutes of fame through it, are just sick.
There’s no limit to the depths of your moral depravation.
Get help!
Maggs, Brett, don’t you have real work to do…
While normal people are shocked, angry, disturbed, apalled, disgusted by the murder of this innocent child the ANC is Appealing an Order of Court that prevents them from public song glorifying the shooting of the class of people this little girl and her parents belong to.
You continue to support and are an apologist for that ANC,
Worse, you are prolific on this blog in ‘othering’ the class of people this little girl and her parents belong to – continually labelling them as abusers of farmworkers – despite all the evidence that incidents where white perpetrators violently victimise black South Africans are statistically insignificant compared to the number of cases where black perpetrators inflict violence on white victims.
If you search Beeld you will find one such current case.
Yes, Andre, and I am late already.
But this is really more important since I have family with children that age.
The truth can be really distressing but how does denial or escapism prepare you for when your turn comes up?
andre says:
December 6, 2010 at 11:03 am
Hey Andre,
LOL!
I was wondering when the laarger master is going to show up in defense of the troops viz. Brett and Hofmeyer.
[...] Pierre de Vos [...]
Eradicating racism must be the aim for everyone in SA regardless of our political affiliation and race. When a crime is committed we are not doing justice if we first look at the race of the perpetrator and the victim. We are missing the point here, crime is crime and it is wrong. We have to hate it regardless of our race.
Our aim must be to make SA a better place for our children since they show the promise that they can do better when it comes to accepting each other. I think it is late for us, the greatest dissapointment is we didn’t even try. Blame it on the ANC and what not but I say it is an individual thing, it difines your character. Either you are a talker or a doer? SA needs love, do you have the love for the next individual? Now ask yourself realy as to what is racism? It is an excuse. Watch out.
Beautiful sentiments, Ralph. However, the health of our constitutional democracy is measured by score-keeping. That is how we audit it.
For 350 years conflict in this country has revolved around the same issues. Land, stock, grazing. Shiny things.You have, I do not, so I kill, I take. Physical insecurity is the main reason white South Africans resorted to Apartheid.
After the unbanning of the ANC and the election of 1994 everything was supposed to be different. This was the brink of the 21st century, for Heaven’s sake! How could it be possible that a modus vivendi between black and white was still eluding us?
So, the Constitution was negotiated to put in place a legal framework for that modus vivendi.
Well, this is not much of a modus vivendi, now is it?
Lion’s share of the blame must go to our first democratically elected President, and his crown prince. Ministers for Safety and Security were appointed more for their ability to appeal to the Emperor’s paranoia than to manage the department tasked with upholding the modus vivendi and acting as an honest broker in a deeply conflicted society.(Those idiots from the ISS did not help either with one pie-in-the-sky plan for transforming policing after another. Praise the Lord they have been kicked to the kerb at last!) The result was three shockingly inept and incompetent Ministers for Safety and Security in a row. And, a SAPS Commissioner heading for the slammer.
It is the ANC that refuses to come to the party. Conferences about agriculture turn into wild Maggs-like unproven generalisations about the abuse of farm-worker in the face of contradicting statistics and an orgy of ‘othering’.
The ANC used to pay lip-service to the idea of reconciliation – now it does not even do that. Instead, it tries to justify a song that no civilized person would sing in the year 2010.
So, when the inevitable happens and its unsophisticated electorate act on the zeitgeist the ANC has created the ANC should man up and take the criticism that is its due. It is getting off very cheaply at the price.
Brett Nortje says:
December 8, 2010 at 7:55 am
Hey Goofy,
“unproven generalisations about the abuse of farm-worker in the face of contradicting statistics”
Here’s something to start with, after which you will still no doubt continue to spill stupidity not because you want to but because you cannot help yourself.
http://www.sahrc.org.za/home/21/files/Reports/farming_inquiry_findings.PDF
http://www.plaas.org.za/pubs/rr/PLAAS_RR38_Lahiff.pdf
When you have studied that carefully and comprehended it generally then we can have a discussion on the implications. In other words we will probably never have the conversation.
.
Typical Maggs ‘proof’.
“There are no specific provincial findings and recommendations as the report reflects general trends…”
“There are broad general findings…”
Given any thought to becoming a HRC Commissioner, Maggs?
Brett Nortje says:
December 8, 2010 at 9:51 am
Finished looking at the pictures already?
Hi Brett. Do you really believe that if the ANC was out of the picture things were going to be different for the better? I don’t think so, what comes to my mind is a civil war around 1990 because around then we were equiped, tired of the treatment and ready to define our destiny. The problem with the ANC led government is that it was never accepted by most white people, maybe because when Nelson Mandela came out off Roben Island you were been told by your parents that he is a terrorist. The terrorist became the president, I can understand how confusing that could have been for most of you.
I admire Nelson Mandela for opting to forgive and believe me those sentiments were not shared by the rest of us. When I look back I have no doubt in my mind that there was no better option than reconciliation. Apartheid was the worst thing to ever happen to SA and it was not even necessary. In my culture we believe that a dead body must be buried and there are families that until this day they have not buried their loved ones.
The Constitution, Brett, does not replace the compassion for humanity which you must have towards the next person. The foundation when the Constitution was draffted must have been placed on the efforts to try and better people’s lives. The problem is that not everyone wants to join the party. Brett, your problem is my problem whether the ANC is there or not.
Crime is a problem for you and me whether the ANC is there or not. The abuse of farm workers is a fact and a problem for you and me whether the ANC is there or not.
What are we going to do about it Brett? I suggest before you answer you stop to refer me to the past. I am aware of it and the fact that it bears no happy memory, maybe for me and more than other million people that I know of( black and white). It might also help you to remember that the ANC is not there to give you an excuse to your children as to why you are not shaking hands with you black neighbour.
“Physical insecurity is the main reason white South Africans resorted to Apartheid”, thats bollocks Brett, for all I know you guys were kings, we were serving you until we realised you wanted to wipe our race off the face of earth, you know Brett it not only happened in SA.
Brett, are you ready to hold my hand and fight the crime with me? How about the abuse of farm workers? Brett, can you hold my hand and we show the ANC how it is done? I mean it is not helping to blame the president and his cabinent ministers. What are you doing Brett to help better the situation? Are you talking it away, Mr Blah Blah and starting everyday in a destructive mood? I hope you enjoy your day, PS: it is up to you.
> “My neighbour was brutally murdered. For what? When black
> people are hungry, why don’t they just break in like in the
> old days and steal food from the fridge and leave? ”
If you said “people should turn the other cheek” per bible teaching; although
don’t agree, I’d at least know where you’re coming from. But your sweeping
aside of the “neighbour’s brutal murder” exposes you as some kind of pervert.
Sorry for the pun.
——-
Freeboot’s comment is a good how-did-I-miss-that example:
> Certainly, hearing comments that non-Afrikaner White South
> Africans make about their White Afrikaner counterparts (in
> their absence, of course) underscores the point. It dilutes
> the illusion that all would be well in Black/White relations.
I’m going to plagerise this!
[...] Pierre de Vos – Hiding in a cave [...]
I’ve had to tolerate the small minds most Afrikaners suffer from and have grown to hate it. Let’s face it they’re the worst type of white ever;-Hypocrytes.
They actually believe in going to church every Sunday will make up for the crap they’ve caused all week. On average 10% of their genetic make up is non-white yet they hold themselves as a pure white and they come from a small gene pool, hence genetic defects such as heart disease etc. Yet they have remarks to make about people who are actually black.
This narrow mindedness comes a long way. They were scared to allow an influx of white refugees from countries that were succumbing to communists. Trained and professional whites that could have added value to South Africa in the ’60s. But the NP party was worried it would dilute their “volk”. So the charade went on and history was rewritten or glossed over. Ossewa brandwag, etc. So much rubbish in the past history which never tied up with their own “white beliefs” and much to be embarressed about.
A language that is no more than a bad dialect of Dutch.
Legends in their own minds. Feed rubbish by their own kind for years and still believing it now and blaming everyone but themselves for their own present dillema and many of SA’s problems.
Ben, why don’t you suck my dick?
@ Brett
“Ben, why don’t you suck my dick?”
With respek, Brett, this is a vacuous question. Ben may have no taste whatsover for fellatio. Even if he does, he may be burdened with a jealous or possessive partner, who would view an act of sexual intimacy with disfavour. Also, Ben may live so far distant from you that the expense of travel would outweigh whatever satisfaction either of you would obtain from a brief oral encounter.
Thanks.
Thanks.