It seems that the provisions of the South African Citizenship Act providing for loss of citizenship are in direct conflict with section 20 of the Constitution and on the face of it would be invalid.

My wife’s parents are British citizens by birth but have lived in South Africa since 1970. I understand they only obtained South African passports (and presumably citizenship) shortly before the 1994 elections. My wife was born in South Africa and presumably the relevant date for her British citizenship by descent is her birth date of 16 July 1971. My wife travelled to England regularly in her childhood to visit her grandparents. I do not know when she first obtained her South African passport or her British passport. My wife lived in England from 1995 until 2000, when we moved to Australia. While living in England and Australia, my wife has used her British passport to travel in and out of England/Australia, including for trips to South Africa (entering and leaving South Africa on her British passport). She never obtained the then relevant ‘exemption’ letter from the South African authorities allowing her to use her British passport. Her South African passport has expired.

My wife obtained Australian citizenship on 8 August 2004. Assuming that my wife’s British citizenship and use of her British passport had not affected her South African citizenship prior to the Constitution coming into force in 1997 (or earlier if the interim constitution contained a provision similar to section 20), does that mean that her acquiring Australian citizenship has not affected her South African citizenship?

The practical issue for us is the ability to obtain South African citizenship for our son born on 1 May 2006.

Why can criminals vote? Criminals don’t pay any taxes. I don’t see the need to spend my tax payer money on people that have taken the life of other human beings.

2) IF a South African citizen abroad get deported which country will he be deported to?? South AFrica or America? Therefor the expats home is SOUTH AFRICA by Right not Choice.

3) The fact that people assume EXPATS should not vote because they only vote for certain parties are just that “ASSUMPTIONS.”

4) With the world becoming a “Global Village” more and more people can chose where they want to work. This doesn’t mean they have cut off all their ties with their homeland just because they are studying/ working/ travelling abroad.

5) Being born SOUTH AFRICAN you have the RIGHT (not privelage) to take part in the say of YOUR country. Nobody can deny you access to what is given to you at birth. The right of Citizenship and the Right to Vote. It’s a Human right not a choice.

6) I think giving the right to all citizens to vote will be to the better of All of South Africa. Remember it’s not only white people living abroad there are plenty Black South Africans too and they would like to vote. It should be open to ALL .

But what really strikes me as that I am meeting up with all races of South Africans wherever I go. There is a thriving RSA community in Ghana (mining), Vietnam (breweries and bottling), Thailand (logistics) etc. Many people are working under tough conditions, but they are sending piles of money home (and huddling together talking about going home and the next shipment of Pro Nutro, Pap or CDs). They also gain experience elsewhere in the world on somebodys else expense. And as I said, they are not all white.

I believe, that as long as you a house, pay your life policies or medical aid, or have other interests in South Africa, you are South African. No matter what your political orientation is.

Many people here have commented about opposition to the ANC. But people fail to remember that even the ANC is shaped by debate, opposition. In fact, societies that are able to handle opposite views without boxing each other tend to outperform societies where there is a prescribed or approved way of thinking.

So, I am a patriotic South African. Even if I dont vote for the ANC, my opinion matters and is protected by the constitution. I remain a South African wherever I go. The people that have written off the country wont go through the trouble to vote.

A last comment on the costs. If it is possible to make provision for diplomatic and other staff (like airlines staff etc) to vote in our diplomatic missions, then surely it cant be that expensive to allow the others to vote as well.

You have spoken like a true patriot (for which I extend a fraternal salute) and I beg your pardon for any ill feelings resulting from my comments.

However, note that mine was a statement aimed at a particular ill. It is restatement of a sad fact: that many of these expatriates (particularly white expatriates) left South Africa because of fears of socio-political and economic transformation. Some amongst them continue acting as provocateurs and agents for their “mother” countries. They never tire of informing us how things will explode, how we are bound to a future of strife. They peddle this falsehoods to all and sundry with the express intent of justifying the true reasons of their “exile” (i.e. rabid racism and prejudice).

It was actually very simple: I “allowed” my visits to SA to coincide with the elections. I was registered WITHIN South Africa and exercised my “right to vote” also within South Africa.

I realise that it is impractical to expect this from all expats ─ due to the cost factor ─ but then those same expats expect the Government to “travel”, even only by figure of speech at one of the diplomatic posts.

——-

I dug out a couple of lines from our Constitution.

From the Preamble.

“Believe that South Africa belongs to ALL WHO LIVE IN IT, united in our diversity.”
[note the inside]

“…establish a SOCIETY based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights”
[note: a society is inevitably only inside ─ expats are part of the non-South African societies that they live in...so they are NOT part of South African Society]

[The following is the important one]

Chapter 2 (Bill of Rights). 7. Rights

1. This Bill of Rights is a cornerstone of democracy in South Africa. It enshrines the rights of all people IN OUR COUNTRY and affirms the democratic values of human dignity, equality and freedom.

Note: “IN OUR COUNTRY”
So The Bill of Rights make clear reference that it enshrines the rights of all people that is “IN” (surely meaning INSIDE) South Africa.
If my logic stacks up it thus excludes anyone that is NOT inside South Africa from claiming any rights under The Bill of Rights? This in turn will render any claim under Section 19 useless.

——-

It further begs the question about Jurisdiction.

By way of an example: If a South African is discriminated against in the UK by someone, then surely he/she can NOT suddenly claim protection under the South African Constitution, but rather under British Law or approach the ECHR if British Law fails.

Legal Jurisdiction is shaped by Common Law and usually definied within country laws.
Does it make SENSE to allow a citizen, that is not contributing to a country, to vote when that person is NOT inside that country (i.e. at least making an EFFORT to contribute)? Sure, many will be quick to jump to how things work in most first world countries, but the composition of the factors that drive/pull South Africans from SA is different. By virtue of this, isn’t it then FAIR to apply Section 36 in The Bill of Rights to qualify this RELATIVE right?

Don’t get me wrong, I believe that there is a moral responsibility on the Government of the day to allow postal voting ─ whether the expats deserve it or not ─ but 7.1 allows a possible legal argument out of it (?).

As a side.
There seems to a belief that the DA et al will be the main benefactors (by far) of overseas voting. This will only be a case if a significant amount of expats vote (apathy will likely be massive) AND if there is NOT a significant number of ANC voters overseas (frankly, this is a BIG unknown).

1. It’s too expensive.
2. …

Um. 2?

I guess the “Democratic” Alliance and the Congress of “the People” will be too pleased with pulling those votes to note the nauseating irony.

Silly comment – back on topic!!! Ozone, those old flag waving dudes probably don’t care – they’re all too interested in getting their citizenship. However, they’re a small minority of the expat population across the world…the rest of us would like to participate in the life of South Africa, and it’s unfair any other way.