Constitutional Hill

Jackie Selebi is finish and klaar

We definitely live in a strange place (as Bernoldus Niemand sang in “Reggae Vibes is Cool”). This is a society in which somebody was found guilty of bribing the President of the country, but the President was never prosecuted for being bribed; one in which the Police Commissioner is sent to prison for being corrupted by a really slick crook, but that crook (allegedly also involved in the “assisted suicide of another businessman-crook) never received a jail term; a society in which a former President fired the head of the prosecuting authority after he wanted to arrest the very Police Commissioner (now facing 15 years in jail for corruption) before that head of the prosecuting authority was himself fired for “undermining national security” by wanting to arrest the very Police Commissioner who showed a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) prepared for the President to the very crook who bribed the Police Commissioner.

Today, in the judgment of Selebi v S, 5 judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) confirmed that former Police Commissioner Jackie Selebi (the very Selebi who showed the NIE to Glen Agliotti after Agliotti had given him money) is guilty of corruption in terms of section  4(1)(a)(i)(bb) of the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Act  which states that:

Any public officer who . . . accepts . . . any gratification from any other person . . . in order to act, . . . in a manner that amounts to the . . . misuse or selling of information or material acquired in the course of the, exercise, carrying out or performance of any powers, duties or functions arising out of a constitutional, statutory, contractual or any other legal obligation; . . . is guilty of the offence of corrupt activities relating to public officers.

In the main judgment, Deputy President of the SCA (Mr Justice Khayelihle Kenneth Mthiyane) pointed out that leave to appeal was only granted to consider two issues. First, the court had to decide whether the High Court was correct when it found that the state has proven beyond reasonable doubt that Mr Selebi had received payment from Agliotti. Second, it had to consider the question whether the State has proven that Selebi has provided Agliotti with any favours as a result of money paid by him to Selebi.

All the judges agreed that the State had indeed done so.

It is clear that Mr Selebi’s legal strategy hinged on denying that he ever received any money or other favours from Agliotti. This was a high risk strategy because once the court found that money did change hands and favours were done, it inevitably led to the conclusion that Selebi had a corrupt intention when he received the money, This is so because Mr Selebi had admitted during his testimony that he believed Agliotti was a “hustler” and that if a “hustler” like Agliotti gave him anything he would immediately know that it was for an illegal purpose. He added that if Agliotti made any payment to him he would know that he intended to induce him to afford him some favours in one way or another.

This strategy might have worked if all the state had to rely on was the testimony of Mr Agliotti, who was found by the court not to be a credible witness. Unfortunately for Mr Selebi, the state provided ample corroborating evidence of payments made and benefits given by Mr Agliotti to Selebi and where it did the court found that there was sufficient evidence to find that payments were indeed made.

The corroborating evidence included that of Agliotti’s former girlfriend Dianne Muller who was found to have been an impressive witness. The “bizarre spending patterns” of Mr Selebi, which showed that for several months he hardly spent any of his salary, also added corroboration.

Most damning for Mr Selebi was perhaps the finding that he had shown a National Intelligence Estimate (NIE report) to Agliotti. The court found that Selebi shared this information with Agliotti to enable Agliotti and the Kebbles to take steps to protect themselves. Accordingly, the portion of the NIE document was shown to Agliotti for the benefit of Agliotti and the Kebbles. The fact that Selebi had admitted to showing a document to Agliotti provides, in itself, corroboration for Agliotti’s evidence that Selebi.

In a separate concurring judgment Suretta Snyders emphasised that the trial court, faced with the absence of reliable, detailed evidence from Agliotti, “exercised what can only be described as extreme caution and only convicted the appellant on the basis of a few payments for which clear corroboration existed” and continued:

Insofar as the general corroboration relied on by the trial court is concerned, I am of the view that the trial court, in applying the rules of caution and seeking corroboration, was benevolent to the appellant and preferred to refrain from convicting the appellant in relation to a specific payment when the faintest doubt was raised. Thus the appellant was not convicted in relation to four more cheques that reflected inscriptions that could be interpreted as references to the appellant.

Snyders, in concluding that the relationship between Agliotti and Selebi was neither a pure friendship or a professional one concluded that:

One does not expect the National Commissioner of Police to take his friend along on police business; to take his friend and informer along to the very meeting where the verification of the informer’s information is to take place; to meet his friend to shop together during office hours; to favour his friend by attending to minor complaints for which structures exist to be dealt with; and to divulge information regarding police operations to his friend’s friends. If the relationship was so close to have made these occurrences ordinary, one would have expected it to spill over to the families of the appellant and Agliotti, which did not happen.

How did the appellant explain this unusual relationship? It was repeatedly put to state witnesses on his behalf that he had an innocent friendship with Agliotti. I have already illustrated that to have been highly improbable, to the point of being unbelievable. During his own evidence, however, the appellant dramatically changed this version and described the relationship as one between informer and handler. This explanation is equally inherently improbable. Their relationship was a public one. Agliotti was previously, from the beginning of 2002 for a period of one year, registered as a police informer and had an official handler, not the appellant. He lost that status within a year and was deregistered as an informer. The appellant’s mendacity in this regard, dealt with extensively by the trial court, is yet another indication that the relationship between them was extraordinary, not one of friendship, nor one between informer and handler.

The appeal did not deal with constitutional issues dealing with allegations that the trial judge had to recuse himself and that conduct by the prosecutors had rendered the trial unfair as no leave to appeal the findings of the trial court on these matters were granted by the trial court or the SCA. This will make an appeal to the Constitutional Court more difficult (if not impossible) to sustain. In S v Boesak the Constitutional Court found that:

A challenge to a decision of the SCA on the basis only that it is wrong on the facts is not a constitutional matter. In the context of section 167(3) of the Constitution the question whether evidence is sufficient to justify a finding of guilt beyond reasonable doubt cannot in itself be a constitutional matter. Otherwise, all criminal cases would be constitutional matters, and the distinction drawn in the Constitution between the jurisdiction of this Court and that of the SCA would be illusory. There is a need for finality in criminal matters. The structure of the Constitution suggests clearly that finality should be achieved by the SCA unless a constitutional matter arises. Disagreement with the SCA’s assessment of the facts is not sufficient to constitute a breach of the right to a fair trial. An applicant for leave to appeal against the decision of the SCA must necessarily have had an appeal or review as contemplated by section 35(3)(o) of the Constitution. Unless there is some separate constitutional issue raised therefore, no constitutional right is engaged when an appellant merely disputes the findings of fact made by the SCA.

Unless the Constitutional Court is prepared to entertain the arguments of Mr Selebi’s lawyers that he did not have a fair trial — something explicitly rejected by the trial court and which the SCA refused even to entertain — this is the end of the road for Mr Selebi.

This case is remarkable in many ways. It has demonstrated that even the South African Police Commissioner was corruptible and dented trust in the police. Nevertheless, at the same time it is remarkable that the Police Commissioner was successfully prosecuted — something that would happen in very few countries in the world as it is notoriously difficult to investigate and prosecute members of the police leadership who usually have the resources to derail any such investigation. It would never have happened in the absence of the Scorpions, a relatively independent corruption fighting unit situated in the Prosecuting Authority.

It is also remarkable that the Police Commissioner will now spend time behind bars while the person who bribed him will not — despite the fact that he was not a truthful witness and never received indemnity from prosecution. There might be good reasons why the Scorpions went after Selebi and in effect let Agliotti off the hook (who was later unsuccessfully prosecuted for his alleged involvement in the Kebble murder while those who confessed to having committed the murder were granted indemnity). This would be that a crooked head cop subverts the law and undermines respect for the Rule of Law in a way that the actions of an ordinary gangster could never do. But it does leave a bad aftertaste that Selebi is going to jail while Agliotti is a free man.

Lastly, the case is remarkable because it once again reminds us of the mendacity of former President Thabo Mbeki and his strange behaviour around the Selebi matter. On 9 November 2006, then President Mbeki wrote a letter to Pieter Groenewald, in which he stated that:

Up to now nobody within the state structures has informed me that there are any investigations affecting National Commissioner Selebi that are being conducted by anybody, including the DSO, (the Scorpions). I am certain that if there was such an investigation, or such an investigation was contemplated, I would have been informed accordingly. In this regard. I must emphasise that if any of our law enforcement or intelligence agencies felt that they had information that justified such an investigation, I would encourage them to do their work without let or hindrance, in keeping with their legal mandate….I have the greatest confidence in National Commissioner Selebi. I am certain that whatever the rumour mill is saying about him, he will continue to do his critically important work with the same diligence, dedication and selflessness he has shown ever since we appointed him as National Commissioner of the SAPS.

As I noted before, it is not clear how this claim could have been true. As the Ginwala Enquiry Report found:

It is not disputed that Adv Pikoli met with the Minister and briefed her on the investigation into the National Commissioner of Police on 13 separate occasions: In March 2006, in August 2006, on 9 November 2006 [the very day Mbeki wrote the letter], on 16 November 2006, on 11 March 2007, on 13 March 2007, on 17 March 2007, on 28 March 2007, on 8 May 2007, on 25 June 2007, on 11 September 2007, on 18 September 2007 and on 23 September 2007. Following these meetings he furnished the Minister with two written reports on 19 March 2007 and 19 September 2007.

It is also common cause that Adv. Pikoli met and briefed the President on the investigation against the National Commissioner of Police on 10 occasions: In March 2006, in August 2006, on 9 or 10 November 2006, on 14 November 2006, on 20 November 2006, on 11 March 2007, on 9 May 2007, on 20 May 2007, on 15 September 2007 and on 16 September 2007. The evidence is that he gave the President written reports on 7 May 2007 and 16 September 2007.

The SCA’s confirmation of the conviction of Selebi — based on some of the evidence provided to President Mbeki at the time, which he claimed never to have seen  — thus underlines once again that for some reason unknown to us the former President had not believed the information provided to him (unlike the High Court and the SCA who found that it proved Selebi’s guilt beyond reasonable doubt) and had then misled the public about receiving any such information. Why he did this, will probably remain the biggest mystery of this sad saga.

  • guest

    Famous last words. And he who laughs last laughs best/longest/loudest.

    Incredible how people unwittingly become the authors of their own fate’s prophecies.

    For Malema it turned out to be the tea-girl derogatory slander addressed at Lindiwe Mazibuko. Who is the tea-girl/boy now?

    With Jackie Selebi it was the famous Finish-and-Klaar prophecy.

    They should have been more careful before thinking they are untouchable and invincible, and choosing to gloat arrogantly or to degrade others.

    Let this be a warning to all others.

  • Snowman

    Jackie Selebi , Alan Boesak, Winnie Mandela, Dullah Omar, Schabir Shaik and Tony Yengeni share one thing in common: they all placed self preservation ahead of personal ideology in hiring white counsel in an attempt to save their bacon.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    “It is clear that Mr Selebi’s legal strategy hinged on denying that he ever received any money or other favours from Agliotti”.

    Don’t forget that the DOG ATE HIS HOMEWORK!

    Anyway …

    Former national police commissioner Jackie Selebi has to pay the State back for all his legal fees, the department of justice said.

    “We are going to start calculating the actual amount owing and communicate with Mr Selebi through his lawyers,” department spokesman Tlali Tlali said on Friday.

    When asked what would happen if Selebi could not pay back the money, Tlali said: “We will follow normal debt recovery processes.”

    Selebi asked the State to assist him in carrying the cost of his legal fees during his corruption trial.

    In a pre-trial agreement with the State, he agreed to pay back all the costs if he lost his case.

  • khosi

    ‘misled the public’

    Firstly, if the letter is authentic, the president was addressing a member of a political party in a private conversation and NOT the public. So, there was no misleading of the public.

    Secondly, is it not plausible that the president would have thought that the matter was, at that stage, too sensitive to have been confirmed to a person who would, at all probability, have been opportunistic enough to go to the press with such an admission from the president, thereby compromising the investigation itself? (Remember the Hefer Commission and the reprimand about leaks?)

    Lastly, it does not matter what the president said in a private conversation with a political party member. What matters is that the president used his executive powers to create an environment where such an investigation could occur in the first place. Under his tenure, the INDEPENDENT DSO was installed.

    When the NPA boss came to him with the allegations on the National Commissioner, the president did nothing to scupper the investigation. In fact, the NPA boss credits the president for helping in the investigation.

    At the conclusion of the investigation, that he assisted in, all that he asked for was an extra week to ensure that the country is ready for the arrest of the national police commissioner. I guess that is his cardinal sin.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 3, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Hey Khosi,

    “Lastly, it does not matter what the president said in a private conversation with a political party member.”

    It mattered much what DCJ Moseneke had to say at a ‘private birthday’ bash to the extend that god itself had to intervene.

    Anyway all conversations of an incumbent President are (or should be) official.

  • Anonymouse

    khosi says:
    December 3, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Ah, Khosi. As always you only jump out of your box when the name Thabo Mbeki is mentioned – which makes me wonder whether you are not him (writing under a pseud as I do). Nevertheless, we’ve had this debate (if one can really call it a debate – since you always act in a ‘the (former) President can see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil, do no evil’ manner, which has become a boring response from you in the light of all the evidence stacked against him to show that he has always been more than parsimonious with the truth) over and over again. I will now challenge you – lets see what is said during the Arms Deal Commission’s enquiry – and what TM will have to say in response thereto? I am willing to wage a wager, that TM will not come out scott-free.

    Remember, even Agliotti during this trial testified that he did some favours, not only to TM’s close friend, the National Police Commissioner (and Head of Interpol – through TM’s political influence) Jackie Selebi, but also to TM himself (I seem to remember something about a very expensive set of shoes – perhaps because the shoes of Nelson Mandela were too ugly for TM to stand full). But, that trial was not about TM – it was about the National Police Commissioner (and Head of Interpol) who had the audacity to call a junior (black, female) police officer a “Chimpansee”, but couldn’t help being friends with one of the most notorious crooks in South African history, him (and his cronies) funding JS’s lifestyle to boot.

    I was at first quite astounded by the fact that government officials (read – the ANC) faffed so much about Brett Kebble’s death because he (and his family) were such dear funders to the ANC (and its, together with others’, struggle) – I also knew the Kebbles as I also worked for JCI once (to earm moneyto study with), and I knew what Shysters they were. I was therefore not surprised to later (after his death) also learn about his underworld dealings and friendships with gangsters and conmen. Now, the message that the ANC sent out through this, was the following: “We will stand behind criminals, druglords and gangsters, because they fund our cause.” I also know why the SANAB of the SA Police (Service) was abolished – because a large part of the ANC funding came from drug trafficking (albeit in an indirect way – druglords keeping the ANC Brass smiling and happy, with hands full of $s), and why would the police (read ANC government) have a specific unit, specialized to trap, apprehend and sucessfully charge their biggest funders? (This is also the reason why the ANC so dearly wanted the Scorpions disbanded and Pikoli fired, isn’t it?)

    Now, all this can be read into the whole Kebble/Agliotti/Selebi (Thabo Mbeki) saga – and I am quite sure that Thabo Mbeki is shivering in anticipation of what will come out during the Arms Deal Enquiry. And, as Prof de Vos once again pointed out – Thabo Mbeki has lied at occasion (as uncovered by the Ginwalla Commission – investigating the grounds he had to fire Simelane’s antecedent) and, not even to speak about other things.

    Whatever the case – on the real issue at hand here – I think the SCA’s finding against Selebi is solid (just as solid as it was in the Shaik, Hlophe and Simelane matters). I also think that there is a bigger chance of hell freezing over than that the Constitutional Court would allow an appeal on constitutional grounds (which is perhaps why the ANC is so hooked with the idea of making the CC the Apex court in all matters, even those not involving constitutional matters).

  • khosi

    December 3, 2011 at 13:11 pm

    You obviously did not read what I wrote earlier.

    All I did was to offer a bit of reasoning as to why the president would have felt the need to embellish, regarding the Groenewald letter. If the letter is authentic and if, indeed, he did embellish. You are now jumping all over like a headless chicken. The Arms deal, Brett Kebble, Hlophe, Simelane, ANC etc. Why confuse matter. Take a strand of a conversation, deal with it, agree or disagree, state why you do so within the strand itself, then move to the next strand. The other stuff is really unnecessary.

    Judge Nicholson did the very same thing. Thanks to the SCA, his crap was corrected.

    But, I am flattered that you would think that I have a fraction of the intelligence that TM has. I doubt if I would be equally flattered if I were him.

  • Anonymouse

    khosi says:
    December 3, 2011 at 13:36 pm

    “You are now jumping all over like a headless chicken. The Arms deal, Brett Kebble, Hlophe, Simelane, ANC etc. Why confuse matter. Take a strand of a conversation, deal with it, agree or disagree, state why you do so within the strand itself, then move to the next strand. The other stuff is really unnecessary.”

    Unfortunately – all those matters (and people) that I’ve mentioned are inextricably linked.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 3, 2011 at 13:11 pm

    Hey Doc Mouse,

    Khosi made a very factual contribution i.e. “the president did nothing to scupper the investigation.”

    Any idea who established the Ginwala Commission?

    It’s not a big deal that Mbeki wanted a crook to head SAPS for another whole week. Really! What could he do in a week apart from more corrupt acts and revealing more information from SA and International intelligence sources and taking more bribes?

    I have the greatest confidence in National Commissioner Selebi. I am certain that whatever the rumour mill is saying about him, he will continue to do his critically important work with the same diligence. dedication and selflessness he has shown ever since we appointed him as National Commissioner of the SAPS.

  • khosi

    December 3, 2011 at 13:44 pm

    I take it that you are incapable of disputing my reasoning for the manner that the Groenewald letter is worded.

    That established…. how are you Mouse? ‘my good friend!’

  • bob

    Works to focus on legal issues, one of your more poignat blogs, the whole Kebble/Selebi/Agliotti saga could’ve been funny if it had not been for the fact that people got killed.

    Wonder how long Selebi is going to play the sick card. He is not part of the Zuma camp so he better bring some stamina. Maybe he should join the young puppies, sure Malema will visit him in jail. Hell, he goes everywhere is there is a chance to get into the news.

  • Shamwari


    Kemp J Kemp was white, the last time I looked.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Yeah right!

    Contrary to what you say in your letter, I have no doubt that both the public and members of the SAPS are both sensible and wise, and thus would never stop trusting the National Commissioner simply because some unknown people decided to spread negative rumours about him.

  • Tom Blaser

    To answer the question you pose at the end, I think it is that the paranoia that has gripped the ruling party is apparently much stronger than most analysts anticipated. I think Mbeki is one of the smartest and most rational, yet flawed and overbearing ideological presidents the continent has produced, and for him to be in such denial is a huge error of judgement but it also points to the confusion and rumour mill that has gripped the political establishment. Anecdotal evidence is widespread that eavesdropping and mutual surveillance, amidst shifting alliances and vote/support buying is common currency within the ANC. Frantz Fanon described very well this paranoia that took over within the nationalist ruling parties across Africa. The verdict is still out how deeply the ANC has been infected, but I wish there were signs of a recovery from self-destruction. If more political schooling, as Mantashe advocates, will work, remains to be seen.

  • ozoneblue

    The sad thing is it appears if paranoia is contagious and that we are now talking of a national epidemic.

  • izeze

    I can’t help feeling sorry for the old guy. Why? Maybe because that blister Agliotti is still bouncing around town, free as a bird, laughing his fat head off.

    Where’s the justice?

  • ozoneblue

    Meanwhile while we are still hypnotised by the RACE

    Here is to you Jimmy Manyi while you are so obsessed with your share of the cheese cake and the champaign you seem to have glossed over the fact that there is an over-concentration of starving impoverished Africans in god-forsaken places called Verdwaal. They should be encouraged to spreeead to Sandton and to the ivory towers of the UCT too.

    Amandla !

  • ozoneblue

    Verdwaal, part of the illustrious Kingdom of the Royal Bafokeng tribe with their fat BEE arses firmly embedded with the wealth and the affluence of the world largest platinum producers Anglo American in joint venture with IMPALA PLATINUM HOLDINGS LIMITED.

  • Peter L

    My understanding is that Agliotti has to face trial on serious drug trafficking and racketeering charges.
    He allegedly received no immunity from prosecution in these matters in exchange for his testimony in the Selebi matter.

    It appears that he may have his “day in court”, when the wheels of the criminal justice system turn.

  • ewald

    Prof thanks for clarifying the last par. in the previous post, the meaning is clear now!

  • ewald

    “Finish and klaar”:). The first paragraph makes for good laughter, albeit not for the right reasons perhaps! But there’s another song that may be even better suited, perhaps written with some kind of prophetic foresight, including the name?..:)

    It’s a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack(ie)

    You taught me all I know and I never look back.
    It’s a very strange world and I thank you, Master Jack.

    You took a coloured ribbon from out of the sky,
    and taught me how to use it as the years went by.
    To tie up all your problems and make them believe.
    And then to sell them to the people in the street.

    It’s a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack.
    You taught me all I know and I never look back.
    It’s a very strange world and I thank you, Master Jack.

    I saw right thru the way you started teaching me now.
    So someday soon you could get to use me somehow.
    I thank you very much you know you’ve been very kind.
    But, I’d better move along before you change my mind

    It’s a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack
    No hard feelings if I never come back
    It’s a very strange world and I thank you, Master Jack

    You taught me all the things the way you’d like ’em to be.
    But I’d like to see if other people agree.
    It’s all very interesting the way you describe
    But I’d like to see the world thru my own eyes.

    It’s a strange, strange world we live in, Master Jack.
    No hard feelings if I never come back
    You’re a very strange man and I thank you, Master Jack.
    You’re a very strange man and I thank you, Master Jack.
    You’re a very strange man, aren’t you, Master Jack?

  • Francois

    Yes, P de V, confusing…and this just make me think about something. But whilst thinking; bye-bye Menzi, and bye-bye Jackie!
    O, the thinking is about JZ. I mean, I hear from Heath about the sexual relationship that JZ undeniable had, when he was screwed on the other hand by TM. Now, talk about screwing and it is a fact that JZ’s appetite in that regard, is growing stronger, using the “shut-up” bill, to screw a nation?!

    I mean, is it not time that we should focus on this sexual drive a bit?

    Now, having a leading case in respect of Menzi, also to revisit Section 87 of the Constitution that provides that within five days of his election the President must assume office by swearing or affirming faithfulness to the Republic and obedience to the Constitution. In President of the Republic of South Africa v Hugo 1997 (4) SA 1 (CC) para 65, Kriegler J said of the relationship between the President and the Constitution:

    ‘Ultimately the President, as the supreme upholder and protector of the Constitution, is its servant. Like all other organs of state, the President is obliged to obey each and every one of its commands.’

    It becomes serious business to me when JZ is serious in his attempts to disobey his official duty. I am positive that we can take the Menzi case, change the names, throw in some docs, and say, bye -bye JZ?

  • Brett Nortje

    Have you people in the ANC – then and now – no shame?

  • Brett Nortje

    Lieutenant General Richard Mdluli – Head of Police Crime Intelligence?

  • Brett Nortje

    Gauteng crime intelligence boss Major-General Joey Mabaso?

  • Francois

    And more bad news!
    The price of chicken, according to “The Rapport” today, is rising with 30%!
    The Youth League will have to look at there give-aways in terms of sharing?

  • ozoneblue

    Francois says:
    December 4, 2011 at 10:22 am

    “The price of chicken, according to “The Rapport” today, is rising with 30%!’

    It doesn’t matter – for the fat-cat academics and the decadent chattering classes food security is hardly a concern. Nothing but a trendy political toy thingy. An empty rhetorical device employed to flaunt your pinkish liberal convictions by virtue of the obligatory boer-bashing at best or to cynically manipulate the uneducated and impoverished masses into voting for your party at its worse.

    Yet – it looks like next year South Africa will have to import yellow maize for the first time.

    “Though SA is still a net exporter of white maize there are growing concerns that yellow maize may need to be imported next year. Therefore while white maize is still priced at the lower export parity price, yellow maize is heading towards the import parity price. This leaves the risk to SA food prices firmly on the upside.

    Locally, both yellow and white maize prices are up 80%-90% in the past year, driven by higher global prices and lower closing stocks. This is quite worrying as the surge resembles the one we saw in late 2006 and early 2007, which pushed food inflation up to 17% in 2008. As a result, average 2012 food inflation could be far closer to 11% than the 8% previously forecast. And it could easily be higher. This has important implications for the SA macroeconomic outlook, local fiscal policy, investment decisions, competition policy and long-term land reform.”

    Also from that article:

    “Lastly, the prospect of SA importing yellow maize is a sobering indictment on government’s painfully slow and so far ineffective land reform programme. An ineffective policy which offered little post-handover support to communities is leaving arable land fallow and driving up SA food prices. And it is the poorest that will suffer most from the surge in food prices.”

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 4, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Hey G,

    “Lieutenant General Richard Mdluli – Head of Police Crime Intelligence?”

    There’s a new kid on the block

    And Mbeki is the target!

    Zuma has pulled out all the stops to demolish his opponents, past and present.

  • Francois

    To Maggs

    You worry too much..
    We are busy (if you did not see) to kill these guys with laughter.

  • Francois

    To Ozoneblue

    Sorry…I just enjoyed your focus to have been going somewhere, whilst you should be reading your text books…mmm

    Your attack..if I speak the truth? Shame….. ok, maybe the ostrich would be better than the chicken?

    or..would another the “mossie” be a target. In any event, this is stupid… stay to the point. You make a noice – I like words..

  • ozoneblue

    Francois says:
    December 4, 2011 at 14:09 pm

    LOL. I think you should stick to rugby forums.

  • ozoneblue

    “So what is your conclusion? That nobody should be prosecuted or that everybody should be prosecuted?

    It was part of a culture, and friendship and ­camaraderie, so it was a very common thing for those who had money to support the others.”

    I guess it is hard to explain that to the sensitive, chattering classes who always had it good and never had to sacrifice their lives fighting for a noble cause. All they ever have to battle with is neuroses and their guilt complexes.

  • ozoneblue

    And now when the truth comes out and the “educated and intelligent business-friendly” Mbeki is exposed. What are the chattering classes going to say?

    “Heath was a casualty

    Thabo Mbeki , Alec Erwin and Trevor Manuel (Joe Modise and Stella Siqcau now being deceased) were the Cabinet committee responsible for the arms deal acquisitions. President Jacob Zuma was a very small fish scapegoated to divert attention from Mr Mbeki’s far greater culpability.

    Afro-pessimists are already screaming that Mr Zuma’s appointment of Judge Willem Heath signals SA’s degeneration into a gangster state (Zuma’s fortress is almost complete, December 1). They should consider:

    – British prime minister Tony Blair’s blocking of an investigation into BAE bribes to Saudi Arabian princes on the spurious rationale that exposure threatened British national security,

    – German chancellor Helmut Kohl’s acceptance of bribes during the 1990s from German arms companies, including the pressure he exerted upon SA to buy warships we did not need and could not afford,

    – The unconscionable yet unashamed corruption that pervades US President Barack Obama’s promotion of the US military-industrial-congressional- complex, and arms exports in the Middle East and elsewhere as detailed in Andrew Feinstein’s new book The Shadow World.

    Yes, the international war business is organised crime on a scale that makes the Mafia look like saints. The al- Yamamah slush fund administered by the Bank of England — but protected from investigation by the Official Secrets Act — is estimated at $150bn, and exists to finance covert destabilisation of resource-rich countries in Asia and Africa, including SA.

    You claim that it is “easy to explain” Judge Heath’s appointment to head the Special Investigating Unit. Yet you fail even to acknowledge that Judge Heath was one of the first casualties of the arms deal scandal when he was fired by Mr Mbeki precisely because he was getting too close to the big fish.

    Terry Crawford-Browne, Cape Town”

  • khosi

    For those who are not aware. President Mbeki never ‘fired’ Willem Heath from anything.

    The Constitutional Court made a ruling.

    Heath requested the president for an early discharge. The request was duly declined. Our laws makes such provision for the president to excercise his discretion.

    Willem Heath had to abide by the ruling of the Concourt.

    So, if anyone fired Heath it was the bench of the Concourt.

    People, may we please have a respect for facts. Not baseless inuendos.

  • khosi
  • izeze

    @Peter L

    “My understanding is that Agliotti has to face trial on serious drug trafficking and racketeering charges”

    Zut alors, Peter! Hopefully still in my lifetime.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Shame on those who sold our integrity to save their skins

    In that process [Mbeki] destroyed the reputations of several South Africans who had to step forward and do as they were told. One of them was Menzi Simelane, who this week was found by the Supreme Court of Appeal to be “unfit” to hold the office of national director of public prosecutions. Simelane, when he was director-general of the Department of Justice, was instrumental in Mbeki’s schemes to protect Selebi. He was later found by the Ginwala Inquiry to have given “misleading and untruthful evidence”.

    There were others, too, who were used by Mbeki to shield this terrible criminal. They included former justice minister Brigitte Mabandla, former Presidency DG Frank Chikane and Mbeki’s then legal adviser Mojanku Gumbi.

    On Friday, did these individuals consider the grave harm they could have done to the country had they succeeded in saving the skin of the criminal underworld’s favourite cop?

    Or were they, like Selebi, now devoid of conscience and incapable of shame?

  • Anonymouse

    khosi says:
    December 4, 2011 at 15:58 pm

    Have you seen what Willem Heath is accusing Thabo Mbeki of?

  • ozoneblue

    khosi says:
    December 4, 2011 at 16:19 pm

    “Also, the Public Protector, Selby Baqwa, the National Director of Public Prosecutions, Bulelani Ngcuka, and the Auditor-General, Shauket Fakie, had met in Pretoria on January 10 and decided that they had enough powers and expertise to conduct the investigation without the Heath unit. Baqwa wrote to Maduna telling him of the decision.”

    Now isn’t that just dandy. Besides for the off the record meetings with media or the “Black editors” the NPA were also had coordination efforts with the Public Protector whose job it is to protect the public against the abuse of power by the NPA and other organs of the State.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 4, 2011 at 19:44 pm

    Hey Doc Mouse,

    “Have you seen what Willem Heath is accusing Thabo Mbeki of?”

    This (from the piece Khosi posted above)?

    [Mbeki] also received an “organogram” – a complex diagram joining top state officials in a web of arms-dealing intrigue and
    said to be part of Heath’s arsenal – linking him and Mandela to the arms deal.

  • ozoneblue

    Another blast form the past.

    Affidavit from Vusi Mona

    “In a properly observant world with a critical media, all these issues should have been picked up immediately after the briefing Mr Ngcuka held with the editors. Instead, there has been lots of distortions and cover-ups about that meeting. Mr Ngcuka occupies an important position in the country’s judicial system. The silence of the media, the opposition and society in general about his conduct and pronouncements at that meeting is a slippery road to the abuse of power.”

    Mr. Bulelani Ngcuka whose wife Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka got JZ’s job after he trailed him in the court of public opinion. No conflict of interest there – no siree!

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 4, 2011 at 19:34 pm

    Maggs? How long have I been saying that?

    “The pain of Selebi’s fall is because it confirms the collapse of the moral superiority of the liberation struggle.”

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OzoneBlue

    “I guess it is hard to explain [struggle accounting] to the sensitive, chattering classes who always had it good and never had to sacrifice their lives fighting for a noble cause.”

    OB is right. It was the Rev. Boesak who offered the first proper articulation of the accounting methodology of the Struggle. As for those afflicted by whitishness (you know who you are), your own personal struggle is to grasp that fastidious record keeping, invoice filing, and double-entry book-keeping is the privilege of those who preferred to remained comfortably ensconced in the structures of power, opposing sanctions because “the blacks will suffer the most,” and eschewing armed struggle!


  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 4, 2011 at 21:01 pm

    Hey G,

    “Maggs? How long have I been saying that?”

    You’ve been giving us the short version – “Godless, shameless ANC”.


    Anyway, I’m intrigued by some of the stuff which is now in the public domain.

    The one was that Bulelani Ngcuka (former director of public prosecutions) insisted on getting paid and then afterwards his wife, who was a former minister, said: “Well, he got paid so I’d also like to be paid.”

    And then there’s Mbeki’s fake ORGANOGRAM.

    I wonder if he will turn in his grave when he’s dead!

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 4, 2011 at 21:35 pm

    Bulelani did rather well for himself after his NPA adventures.

    Fat cats coin it


    Billionaire ANC heavyweight Tokyo Sexwale and former National Prosecutions Authority (NPA) boss Bulelani Ngcuka top the list of politically connected elites who benefited from the controversial R20 billion Gauteng Freeway Improvement project, The Sunday Independent can reveal today.”

    Predictably as BEE business ethics goes Basil Read dropped him like a hot piece of shit the moment Jacob Zuma became prez LOL

    There is only one industry dirtier than arms – and that is the construction industry.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    December 4, 2011 at 21:31 pm

    Ja Dworky,

    “It was the Rev. Boesak who offered the first proper articulation of the accounting methodology of the Struggle.”

    It seems our Auditor General, even though he is 100 years old, has not got his head around the ‘accounting methodology’.

    Maybe political school with Tony Yengeni (alongside Juju) will help. Are you up to setting up a fund for this?

    We really need to up the skills of not skilled in the art of ‘noble-causes’.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “Maggs? How long have I been saying that?”

    With respect, perhaps you really are “Goofy,” as Maggs has long insisted. Any non-Goofus would understand that Maggs is compelled to vehemently contest any negative judgment of ANC that emanates from your Godly mouth — even if it articulates his own heartfelt conviction!

  • khosi

    December 4, 2011 at 19:44 pm

    “Have you seen what Willem Heath is accusing Thabo Mbeki of?”

    No, I believe not. But going by the newspaper reports, I am lead to believe that Willem Heath has not seen it either.

  • khosi

    Mondli Makhanya is stupid and does not think. Anybody who believes what he says, is 10X as stupid a Mondli Makhanya.

  • ozoneblue

    khosi says:
    December 5, 2011 at 4:33 am

    Heath must have seen it. Apparently it is all part of the De Lille dossier, and also reference in Andrew Feinstein’s book “After the party”. Terry Crawford-Browne seems very sure of it too. Then there is Leonard McCarty’s affidavit that made it quite clear that the prez at the time (Mbeki) specifically wanted the SIU excluded from the arms investigation unit.

    “15.4. On 13 November 2000 the Auditor-General, the Public Protector and representatives of the NPA and the SIU met and decided to form the JIT to conduct a joint investigation between all the agencies mentioned.

    15.5. In January 2001 the President decided that the SIU should not be involved in the investigation – the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act 74 of 1996 required the President’s formal sanction for the investigation – and that instead the NPA in its investigations should focus on allegations and suspicions of criminal conduct in accordance with its mandate and the authorisation of the preparatory investigation dated 6 November 2000.

    15.6. Between January and November 2001 the JIT conducted a wide-ranging investigation into the arms deal.

    15.7. On 14 November 2001 the JIT submitted its report, which was subsequently accepted and approved by Parliament. The key finding in the JIT report was that although there may have been irregularities and improprieties, they could not be ascribed to the President and the Ministers involved and consequently there were no grounds for suggesting that the Government’s contracting position was flawed (see paragraph 14.1.1). This finding was articulated as follows in the body of the report (paragraph ‘Whilst there may have been individuals and institutions who used or attempted to use their positions improperly, within government departments, parastatal bodies and in private capacity, to obtain undue benefits in relation to these packages, up until now no evidence has emerged, to suggest that these activities affected the selection of the successful contractors/bidders, which may render the contracts questionable. As matters stand, there are presently no grounds to suggest that the Government’s contracting position is flawed’. “

  • khosi


    What is is that you find wrong with a president exercising powers vested in him by our laws?

    Secondly, the statement “Heath must have seen it.”, takes us no further than where we were before that statement was written.

  • khosi

    Should I laugh….should I cry…..

    I will laugh!


  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 5, 2011 at 4:36 am

    Hey Khosi,

    “Anybody who believes what he says, is 10X as stupid a Mondli Makhanya.”

    Help me out a bit, as you said I’m clinically stupid. Is Makhanya also lying about the part about Selebi having been the underworld’s favourite cop?

    And what about the YLC – should I believe the them?

    SOUTH African national police commissioner Jackie Selebi, who faces charges of corruption and trying to protect a convicted drug smuggler, has stood down temporarily but will not be sacked, President Thabo Mbeki said at the weekend.

    The Young Communist League accused President Mbeki of inconsistency, noting that, in 2005, current African National Congress leader Jacob Zuma had been sacked as deputy president merely for being suspected of corruption.

    “The only substantive conclusions and reasons we can make on why the president of the republic is treating Selebi differently from the ANC president Jacob Zuma, is that the former is being done a friendly favour by the president,” the YCL said.

    Should I believe this?

    A source described as a “Zuma strategist” told the country’s Mail and Guardian newspaper that the information his lawyers provided “spilled the beans regarding other characters and specifically with reference to Mbeki”.

    A legal source said the plan was “to discredit lots of people” and show “how much others got”.

  • khosi

    I do not think that one is necessarily deaf because one is stupid. But the are clearly exceptions.

    I said…. I am done talking to stupid people.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 5, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Hey Khosi,

    “I said…. I am done talking to stupid people.”

    Do you talk to yourself?

  • Brett Nortje

    Thabo Mbeki was well on his way to becoming the continent’s next Mugabe.

    JZ, we are eternally grateful to you for ridding us of him.

    Now we have to stop you becoming the next Jose Eduardo dos Santos.

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 5, 2011 at 9:04 am

    All we want is for JZ to clean up this fucking stinking cesspool of a mess, heal the wounds and set us up again to become a great nation. Then JZ would as a matter of fact be obliged to step down after his second term.

  • ozoneblue

    khosi says:
    December 5, 2011 at 8:35 am

    “while claiming to own the moral high ground, “they hunt in a vicious pack” to prevent anyone questioning their assumptions.”

    LOL. She may be right but she is sounding very much like TM now. Just a couple of years ago the DA made an awful fuss about TM daring to question the AIDS orthodoxy. Those were the good old days, before SERVICE DELIVERY/CORRUPTION. When CRIME, AIDS and ZIMBABWE were the favorite sticks used to beat the ANC with.

  • Brett Nortje

    Those were the good old days before good science proved ARV’s cut partner-transmission by 96% and Thabo Mbeki a mass murderer.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 5, 2011 at 9:04 am

    Hey Brett,

    Is that you pretending to be me?

    Maybe it’s just that season of goodwill and all things nice.

    We agree twice in as many days – there must be a catch.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    We are tired of the AFRO-PESSIMISM one hears from liberal sources. The fact is that we have the finest Constitution since ancient Athens, good harbours, and a very nice climate. All we need now is for certain “bad apples” in govt to be dealt with, the courts to be TRANSFORMED, and the cult of WHITISHNESS to be stamped out once and for all.


  • ozoneblue

    Eish. Antie Zille is loosing the plot badly now. If I didn’t know any better that reactionary rubbish could just as well have been quoted from Steve Hofmeyer or Dan Roodt.

    “Zille cited a pending high court case in which a top Durban businessman was being sued for R2.56 million by a Cape Town woman who alleged he infected her with genital herpes. It was publicly acceptable for only a white woman to single out a white man for infecting her with a sexually transmitted disease, Zille wrote. “But, not vice versa, according to the Aids Gestapo. Who actually is being racist?””

  • khosi


    Yes as we all know, AIDS orthodoxy won that little battle.

    Now we are told that our government has roped in ARV’s as a tool to stop news HIV infections.

    Really….!!!? Its true, hard to believe as it may be that our government thinks that condoms have failed to stop people from being infected. So, they are calling on the good old pill to fix everything.

    I tell you. It makes no sense at all. It is like they are saying that the people infecting others with the virus, already know their status, and the infect other knowingly. And the only respite is pills.


    Person 1 : Oh, baby I want you so much!

    Person 2 : I want you too!

    Person 1 : Wait, lets use a condom.

    Person 2 : Do not worry baby, I am on ARV’s

    Person 1 : Oh, baby I want you even more

    This is what our health department is telling us should happen.

    Next step will be to tell the ones who do not know their status to take ARV’s. Only if to make sure that they do not unknowingly infect others.

    Then Big Pharma buys his island and yatch!

  • Brett Nortje

    LEts not forget all those exiles returning with AIDS while the ANC does nothing for 10 years about the AIDS-plan Rina Venter and the ANCWL drew up because the WInnie MAndela faction and the ALbertina Sisulu faction are too busy tearing each other’s hair out to worry about something trivial like AIDS.

    There is NO-ONE responsible enought o govern in the ANC!

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 5, 2011 at 10:14 am

    “LEts not forget all those exiles returning with AIDS”

    Brett I predicated a long time ago that the DA will not be able to contain all the racists and White supremacists that have jumped onto their bandwagon in the name of a democratic opposition a very long time ago. Let me give you some good advise, I suggest you forward the racist rubbish that people like you post on forums like this one to Mazibuko and De Lille for censorship and approval first, cause Antie Zille seems quite paranoid and delusional herself now.

    “Zille quoted Nelson Mandela, who said at a 1992 meeting, before he became president that the ANC would face the Aids issue uncompromisingly. She said she could find no other example where Mandela had explicitly addressed the issue. “During his presidency he seems to have paid scant attention to Aids. I have often wondered whether the Aids Gestapo managed to silence him, too.” ”

  • malome tom

    all there is to say about this case and the comment above, is that evidence of banana-republic type behaviours do not in actual FACT make us a banana republic. while some amongst us (sic) may find it “remarkable” that the system worked some of us find it neither remarkable or indeed accidental – this is a Constitutional Democracy. and on balance things work. having your sensibilities severely offended from time to time is not evidence of the swaart-gevaarness coming home to roost, if i may be allowed to mix my metaphors. this thinking should inform the approach when ‘we’ devise tactics and responses to things like the POIB etc etc. the sky STILL refuses to fall. ho-hum
    and oh, btw, it is still irrelevant whether i trust politicians or not, besides some i trust some i do not lucky for me, for us all i need to trust is that the system we bought into will, on balance serve all of us. remarkable system i say.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Hey Khosi,

    “This is what our health department is telling us should happen.”

    I heard there’s some marbles rolling around in Durban opposite a boys’ school. Are those yours?

    It boggles the mind how someone who is not ‘clinically stupid’ can suggest such clinically stupid crap!

    Anyway – unlike your yesterday’s hero, the court does not “have the greatest confidence in [FORMER] National Commissioner Selebi”.

    Jackie Selebi’s defence team failed this morning to convince the registrar of the Johannesburg High Court that the disgraced former police chief is too sick to go to jail. The court has dispatched an investigating officer with a warrant of arrest to the Jacaranda Hospital, Pretoria, where he is recuperating after collapsing on Friday.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 5, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Ozone Guy,

    “Antie Zille is loosing the plot badly now.”

    Minister Nzimande needs to be more worried now.

    Recall that he said “I’m worried if Helen Zille is still together upstairs”

    p.s. Admittedly that was before he got his fancy BMW with state of the art technology and fired Prof Metcalf as his DG but after he acquired taste for expensive red wines and expensive hotels – but should still be a worry.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder


    OB and Khosi are right (albeit in different ways.)

    I say it indeed ironic that General Selebi, an implacably impeccable struggler, should be taken off to prison, while Madame Zille (who has now become to the Western Cape what President was absurdly accused of being for the whole country), is free, and continues to preside over her little fiefdom in a spirit of demented whitishness.

  • khosi

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    There is a clinically stupid person that I am struggling to get through to. I just cannot channel myself to such a far off galaxy. This person makes the twilight zone seem like an old aged home.

    Any ideas on how one can channel oneself to a level where residents of the twilight zone can understand what one is communicating?

  • Chris (not the right wing guy!)

    malome tom says:
    December 5, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    This is probably a new record for the longest sentence in history!

  • Brett Nortje

    You know, Maggs, when Henrietta starts screeching because she wants to go outside or being outside wants to come inside or sees take-away containers and wants a chip or sees mealies on the table or wants a marie-biscuit when I gave her a chocalate wafer I simply cover her cage.

    I am trying to remind myself of the example of Koos van der Merwe who handled my attempts to anagonise him with with and aplomb.

    Accusing someone of being a DA supporter? That is defamtory. There I draw the line.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Chris (not the right wing guy!)
    December 5, 2011 at 13:38 pm

    Hey Right-wing-guy,

    “This is probably a new record for the longest sentence in history!”

    Nah – Shaik also got 15 years. So they’re even.

    But Selebi did set the speed record for getting terminally-ill.


  • Brett Nortje

    And the endurance record for being terminally ill.

    Anyone got the email addy for the Guiness book of records?

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 5, 2011 at 13:58 pm

    Hey G,

    “Anyone got the email addy for the Guiness book of records?”

    I’ll give it to you on condition that you nominate the person who was fooled the longest (and still is) by Mbeki’s quack science on AIDS.

    I’ll give you some clues – when he cannot sustain ridiculous notions he counts schoolboys and relies on silly racism.

    It’s not Khosi (ok, I lie – it is Khosi).

    p.s. Who accused you of being a DA supporter? We all know you support god’s party – sort off.

    BTW I heard that heaven is a wonderful place, except when there’s the possibility of going there – is it true?

  • ozoneblue

    Strange days indeed while the capitalist pigs of the West are nationalising yet another bank, and those commie bastards in China are trying to figure out how to subdue their cheap labor lol

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 5, 2011 at 13:42 pm

    You certainly sound like a DA supporter. Hysteria, paranoia, shrill high pitched voice due to all males castration policy and all.

  • Brett Nortje

    And you sound like Henrietta – dumbed down.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Now we can all relax – Comrade Minister BMW has got it all under control.

    Nzimande said the country should take comfort in the fact that the SACP would remain vigilant to ensure that officials and politicians do not classify information to hide corruption.

    “This bill will criminilise the false classification of information in order to conceal corruption,” he said.

  • Brett Nortje

    Selebi may be finished and klaar – his legacy endures!

    Crime Intelligence management redeployed – SAPS

    Major General Nonkululeko Mbatha
    05 December 2011

    Police say they won’t be drawn into media debates on issue (Dec. 2)

    Crime Intelligence Unit redeployments
    2 Dec 2011

    The management of the South African Police Service has taken a decision to redeploy the Crime Intelligence management with effect from Monday 28 November 2011. This follows internal processes and interventions that needed to be expedited objectively hence the interim redeployment of members in this regard (see New Age report).

    The SAPS does not wish to conduct its internal matters in the media hence a plea to allow processes to unfold accordingly. Furthermore, the organisation will not be drawn to media debates on information received from unknown sources and allegations thereof. It is important to understand that the interim redeployment is to allow the processes to be conducted fairly within the Crime Intelligence environment and that any speculations and reports on allegations in this regard will not be entertained.

    The SAPS management remains confident that the processes currently underway will stabilise and allow the environment to function optimally in the interest of the service.

    Statement issued by Major General Nonkululeko Mbatha, South African Police Service, December 2 2011

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 5, 2011 at 20:22 pm

    Hey G,

    Since have the DA tendency, what’s with this?

    New SIU head Willem Heath’s outspoken support for President Jacob Zuma shows he is too partisan to hold the post, DA leader Helen Zille said on Monday.

    Why would someone as experienced as Heath deliberately present himself as partisan as the Madame point out?

    He and Pres Zuma must surely know that his appointment will be highly contentious and will probably not withstand interrogation. He has not given up his other work, so perhaps the appointment is just a way of him getting a state pension. It’s too obviously flawed.

    It’s also unlikely that Zuma will want to unravel the web of corruption surrounding the arms deal in particular to the extent that it will expose a large number of senior ANC members. Zuma is smarter than that and he knows that the most he will be holding the reins is for another 6 years then he too will be food for the vultures.

    Never mind what Lex Luthor (or is it Parsimoniae) had to say – the simplest answer is too obviously simple. The jobs for pals thing does not add up!

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 5, 2011 at 21:28 pm

    “the simplest answer is too obviously simple.”

    The simplest answer may be that Heath is simply telling the truth. He was asked a couple of leading questions by a journalist remember. What was he supposed to answer when he was asked:

    “It was not only Mbeki who didn’t want you in the arms deal investigation, Zuma also said you should be excluded…

    That was Mbeki’s line. Because I would still meet with members of the NWC (the ANC’s national working committee) and NEC (national executive committee), and they were supportive and many of them were surprised by the SIU being stopped. That was Mbeki’s brainchild – to stop our involvement.”

    I have never understood either what else the deputy President is supposed to do when the President takes a decision and he differs from that decision. Nowhere in the world does the deputy or any other minster for that matter refuse or have the freedom to do just what they like.

  • ozoneblue

    The vicious attack on our democracy is coming from those who insist that every move inside our government and ruling party is motivated by selfish interest and because of some hidden agenda due to factionalism.

    And since when does an advocate/attorney becomes tainted and painted with the some brush as those he represent? I mean what kind of unadulterated bullshit is that now.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Ozone Guy,

    “The simplest answer may be that Heath is simply telling the truth.”

    The ‘truth’ he told included paying bribes You could interpret it that they were bribed

    He projects as far too partisan to be a suitable head of the SIU. It cannot be correct for Zuma to be using the SIU to ‘get Mbeki’ or anyone else or appearing to do so. This is the kind of gutter politics which Zuma was expected to get rid of.

    And he will continue with his ‘private enterprises’.

    I’m not suggesting that people should get away with crimes/corruption – rather the institutions must be non-partisan and the people occupying positions must be beyond reproach.

    Heath is not!

  • Brett Nortje

    I agree with you, Maggs.

    Heath is too old to join the civil service, Heath should not be giving interviews to the media coming out with controversial statements about politicians that could be seen as taking part in political infighting.

    That should be left to the likes of you and me.

    One wonders if S197(3) and S195(4) of the Constitution go far enough.

  • ozoneblue

    Another blast from the past. The DA doing another 180 when it suits them again. They really have no credibility whatsoever.

    “Political reaction to Mbeki’s decision on Heath

    Democratic Alliance leader, Tony Leon, has accused President Thabo Mbeki of scoring an “own goal” against the country. This follows Mbeki’s exclusion of the Heath unit in investigations into the R43 billion arms deal.

    Leon has challenged the president’s interpretation of the constituion, adding that the decision will negatively affect investment in the country.”,2160,10056,00.html

    I think the real problem is that when Heath speaks the truth, a truth substantiated by both Andrew Feinstein and Terry Craford-Brown there are a lot of people, including the author of this blog who ends up with lots of egg on their face. They would rather prefer continuing believing in a lie, and would much rather not be confronted with the BAE deal and the implications for South African democracy being manipulated by very powerful British interests.

    Having said that, I don’t even think the SIU is going to be involved in the new arms deal commission at all.

  • Wedende

    He goes to prison and yet the whole truth is not known.

    What happened to the oft leather shoes?

    Khosi, did daddy get his present?

  • Wedende

    Meant ‘soft’

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “This is the kind of gutter politics which Zuma was expected to get rid of.”

    Maggs, there are some who would say that anyone who harboured such an expectation was a little bit naive.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    December 6, 2011 at 9:24 am


    Maybe so, but I suspect otherwise.

    Zuma (even though he frequently creates the impression of a bumbling, fumbling, giggling, not-so-smart fella) is far smarter than the impression he creates.

    He’s like the political equivalent of our most daring of minibus drivers – those who study and know the rules well in order to break it at will. These are usually the humblest when confronted by law enforcement and, as one traffic officer said on air not so long ago, with their politeness, courtesy and readiness to admit the error of their ways it’s easy to be sympathetic with such skelms.

    Maybe Zuma has created a diversion with the what may be another controversial appointment.

    As Brett points out above (December 6, 2011 at 8:44 am) the flaws are just too obvious.

    Does anyone know what has happened to the Arms Deal Commission and the terms of reference?

    Maybe the lamb that is Terry Crawford-Brown been silenced!

  • ozoneblue

    So now all these bloody RACIST agents cowtowing the DA are slowly being flushed out by my 100% Zulu home boy JZ. LOL.

    This also what Heath had to say.

    “Why were only Schabir Shaik and Tony Yengeni prosecuted for the arms deal?

    They were sacrificed. It was easy to sacrifice them. And then, of course, Mbeki initiated Zuma’s prosecution – not only as far as the corruption charges were concerned, but also on the rape case.

    Do you have proof of that?

    He dictated to the NPA what decisions they had to take. I can’t disclose the evidence to you, but ­generally there was no doubt he had a strong say in those decisions; yet the NPA was supposed to be completely independent.”

    I can hear already the hear the pitiful wailing and the gnashing of teeth.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Ozone Guy,

    “They would rather prefer continuing believing in a lie, and would much rather not be confronted with the BAE deal and the implications for South African democracy being manipulated by very powerful British interests.”

    It may be getting to silly season, but what on earth are you on about???

  • Brett Nortje

    He’s also a better manager than Thabo Mbeki – that is, when he actually takes a decision.

    Decision-making being the major part of the job.

    And, people like him. People did not like Mbeki, and he could not make decisions either unless they served his self-interest.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 9:56 am

    The truth will come out boet. The fact that Zuma was an insignificant scape-goat and that the real deal was actually who paid for the ANC 1999 election by abusing taxpayer’s monies. That is what South Africans should know. And we shall leave no stone unturned until the full and ugly truth comes out.

    “While investigating the deal, I never heard allegations that Mbeki himself benefited from the deal, but was told by a senior ANC leader and other sources that the ANC had received money from the successful bidders, possibly to fund its 1999 election effort. This has never been proved or disproved.

    BAE Systems has admitted that they had made a payment of R5m to the ANC-aligned MK Veterans’ Association while they were bidding for the contract. Of this donation, BAE has said: “It demonstrates that we wish to be good corporate citizens doing business in South Africa.” The defence minister at the time, Joe Modise, was life president of the association, and I did hear from a number of sources that he had personally benefited inappropriately.

    It is hardly surprising that BAE’s role is under further scrutiny. The allegations of their paying massive bribes to Saudi royals in relation to the al-Yamamah arms deal have hardly dissipated after the UK government’s shameful intervention to close down the SFO’s investigation just as major breakthroughs might be achieved.

    The UK government is similarly entwined in the South African deal. Tony Blair took the highly unusual step of signing a memorandum of understanding with President Mbeki endorsing the deal and its economic benefits. This came after the most dubious decision of the deal was made in favour of BAE Systems. The South African Air Force had plumped for an Italian jet fighter as technically superior to, and half the price of, the equivalent BAE/Saab offering. The decision-making body then took the extraordinary decision to remove cost as a criterion (in the country’s largest ever procurement). Following this ruling, the BAE jet beat its favoured rival.

    Tony Blair’s role as BAE’s premier salesperson, along with the loans for peerages scandal and the on-going Iraq debacle, is emblematic of just how badly the new Labour project has been tarnished since those heady days of 1997. Similarly, as 2006 ended, a divided and weakened ANC found itself mired in allegations of senior figures benefiting inappropriately from government-linked business deals. In addition, during the year, at least six senior ANC leaders were charged with sexual harassment, including the chief whip who succeeded the disgraced Tony Yengeni. (He has now been dismissed from his post and expelled from the ANC.)

    How far this seems from that momentous day in 1994 when the world watched the incomparable Nelson Mandela inaugurated as South Africa’s first democratic President. As investigators here, and in Germany, continue their endeavours, we can only hope that Tony Blair and Thabo Mbeki don’t attempt to prevent the real facts emerging.”

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Ozone Guy,

    I am more curious about what you mean by “there are a lot of people, including the author of this blog who ends up with lots of egg on their face.”

    I’ve said before and will repeat – I think PdV is one of the most gutsy South Africans. Put something on the table to disprove that. If you can. Speak directly to your issue with him?

    Anyway – back to Zuma. The choice was indeed between the rock and the hard place in the fight between Zuma and Mbeki. Mbeki ruling from the grave would have been ‘too ghastly to contemplate.

    A lot of high profile people in the ANC were (and still are) involved in corruption and corrupt. The abuse of state resources to selectively target Zuma only because he was a contender for the throne, while creating the space for others to get away scot free, was unacceptable.

    That does not mean that Zuma is innocent of the charges levelled against him even though (as I contend) he outwitted all that Mbeki and the massive state machinery mobilised against him.

    It’s really disappointing that since becoming President we’ve gone from bad to worse. The provinces virtually going bust as we speak is but a case in point. He’s deployed the worst of the worst in so many crucial posts. The ANC cannot be proud of the kak that is going on.

    Apart from the obvious awful deployments, like Simelane and Cele, the appointment of the Cj is not something to be celebrated – we need to hang our heads in shame that the finest court of its kind anywhere has been tainted with a less than dignified decision by Zuma.

    It’s a bloody disgrace that the continent’s greatest liberation movement has allowed itself to descend into this morass of corruption, criminality and thuggery even in the face of the many, many good, disciplined activists determinedly pursuing genuinely the transformational aspirations as envisaged in the NDR in the context of our Constitutional project.

  • Brett Nortje

    A new University of Robbing Island?

    More cell-mates anyway, to talk politics with Selebi…

    From bling to bust in Polokwane

    Province in a financial crisis, write Sibongakonke Shoba and Sam Mkokeli

    Published: 2011/12/06 07:06:30 AM

    POLOKWANE has an upmarket suburb called Flora Park, whose nickname is “Tender Park” because of its popularity with the elite, many of whom make their living from provincial government deals.

    Such residents of this upper- middle-class suburb are politically connected people: the kind who can recite the Freedom Charter and economic freedom chants in their sleep. The suburb appeals to those linked to Limpopo Premier Cassel Mathale and suspended African National Congress Youth League president Julius Malema.

    This group is accused of milking state resources to enrich themselves and dispense patronage.

    Allegations are that proper tender processes are not followed when these lucrative tenders are awarded. As the tender-financed bling-bling glisters in Tender Park, government books tell a different story: that of a struggling administration. The auditor-general’s reports often flag cases of bad governance and corruption.

    Revelations of such allegations attracted interest from law enforcement agencies.

    The Hawks have confirmed that they are conducting investigations in Limpopo.

    Weekend reports revealed that the province was in a financial crisis. It had asked National Treasury to increase it overdraft facility by R1bn after exhausting the available overdraft facility of R757,3m . The request was declined.

    Instead, the Cabinet decided to take control of the Limpopo treasury, and its education, health, roads and transport and public works departments.
    In addition, forensic investigations will be conducted and the Cabinet promised “consequences” for those found guilty of wrongdoing.

    It will also intervene in the Free State and Gauteng.

    The Limpopo health department, and the roads and transport department are said to be the main sources of income for the high- flying residents of Tender Park.

    The move by Cabinet was an attempt to deal with real problems of governance and poor service delivery, political analyst Aubrey Matshiqi says. “The question we need to ask is whether national government has the capacity to turn around the performance in these departments,” he say. “If they don’t have capacity, this could create unnecessary expectations and raise hopes for nothing.”

    He warns that the move could also be interpreted as an attempt to frustrate President Jacob Zuma ’s opponents pushing to have him removed as head of the African National Congress next year. Mr Malema, who is a close ally of Mr Mathale, has been the face of the campaign to remove Mr Zuma.

    Mr Malema’s Ratanang Trust holds a stake in a company that controls a big chunk of the tenders awarded by Mr Mathale’s government. Mr Malema has been accused of distributing tenders and receiving kickbacks.

    The national government’s pending interventions in Gauteng and the Free State follow the provinces’ requests to the Treasury.

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 6, 2011 at 10:48 am

    more of the same. When Zuma directs his government and takes decisive action immediately the “analysts” and “commentators” query the motive for doing is – as if woeful mismanagement and non-performance is not enough motivation by itself. And then the total lack of consistency in the logic, in Limpopo there must be political reasons such as Malema being suspended by Zuma and what then of Gauteng and the Free State.

    Keep it up Comrade Zuma. We have had enough with this rubbish, the continuous excuses, the doing nothing and expecting something good to happen. The endless fucking whining, the conspiracy theories and rumor mongering amongst the “chattering classes”.

    The people have elected you to govern – now govern with an iron fist.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 10:35 am

    “It’s a bloody disgrace that the continent’s greatest liberation movement has allowed itself to descend into this morass of corruption, criminality and thuggery”

    Exactly. And it all starts with and now it is going to end with the arms deal. Perhaps we should have a TRC around it, perhaps even a general amnesty form prosecution so we can all speak honestly with each other on what it is exactly that went so horribly wrong.

    Then we can put it behind us, can look forward as proud nation and try ensure that we don’t make the same mistakes again.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Ozone Guy,

    “Perhaps we should have a TRC around it”

    We don’t need a TRC – we need people to do the work they are elected or employed to do.

    And do it diligently.

    Anyway your comment at December 6, 2011 at 11:28 am seems misguided at best – the assumption that politicians are democratically elected therefore are trustworthy and should be trusted cannot be correct.

    The President (and other politicians) are elected in terms of our Constitution and must operate within its guidelines. He ought to be a custodian of the Constitution and the Constitutional Project – this is neither a spaza shop nor a private little fiefdom where he can do as he pleases.

    Our Constitution does seem to presuppose a mature democracy which it is not. It’s a good thing that courts are now intervening in a way that seems consistent with their positive duty – that can only but help to expedite the maturing of our democracy.

    If we simply shut up about the things which are wrong then we will ultimately be responsible for giving away our power and not the politicians whom we ought to hold to account.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “We don’t need a TRC – we need people to do the work they are elected or employed to do.”

    So that is what this is really about, you don’t want a TRC. How are we supposed to build an accountable and honest government on a foundation of lies and deceit? Why should Heath keep quiet when he was directly involved in this and was fired because he knew too much and wanted to do something about it? Why should it be perceived as just another incident of factionalism?

    You see it is people like you who don’t really want the truth to come out. But rather play hide-and-seek behind all kinds of intricate “constitutional” technicalities and clever little sophistries who defend the rotten core and perpetuating the status quo.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Hey Ozone Guy,

    It will be better to have a reasonable conversation if you avoid making silly comments like “You see it is people like you who don’t really want the truth to come out”. That’s just nonsense.

    The TRC had a particular purpose during a transition from the laws which existed prior to our Constitution to our democratic state. I’m sure you’re aware of the rationale behind that.

    I certainly will resist a TRC for corruption. We are driven by our Constitution. There are institutions established to deal with the skulduggery. A TRC type approach will simply create the space for thugs to escape (with the money they stole).

    The closest we should allow are judicial commissions of enquiry with proper terms of reference.

    Our system of justice must be made to work and the rule of law must prevail. South Africans should not be tolerant of escape chutes for these criminals. That will be the political equivalent of pissing on the graves of the many, many people who died in the struggle for a just South Africa and on the future of the coming generations.

    The scale of the criminality is certainly not bigger than our nation but it is bigger than those whom we have put our trust and respect in when we voted in three democratic elections – maybe it’s time to campaign for a different approach to electing political representatives.

    Read this for example.

    “The Gauteng department of health has moved from being one of the best in the country to the current crisis — flea-ridden premises, overloaded staff and unpaid doctors, and a failure to pay service providers on time, leading to chronic shortages of medicines and other essentials.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Maggs & Brett

    Lets just change Heath’s title to Judge. Would you still say he is too old to serve??

  • Anonymouse

    Gwebecimele says:
    December 6, 2011 at 13:28 pm

    No, he’s not too old to serve – just too inconsistent, constantly changing his outlook and viewpoints (notably, after he was refused leave to retire early, he started serving political masters and viewpoints rather than the law and the Constitution). Perhaps a name change to Chameleon might be in order.

  • Zoo Keeper


    How old is Heath?

    I believe the age when justices are no longer called (out of retirement) is 75.

    They retire from full bench duties earlier but are up for a “recall” until 75 – as far as I know that is.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 13:44 pm

    Hey Doc,

    Not only he started serving political masters (with a vengeance too) but by his own admission he ‘facilitated’ bribes and justified that by suggesting that by “but eventually their evidence was accepted in civil cases as well”.

    It’s outrageous that we can have as head of the SIU a guy who is willing to bend the rules to that extent.

    But I do agree with Gwebs that age ought not to be an impediment – at 66 he’s ought to be fully capable of performing his functions.

  • ozoneblue

    Anonymouse says:
    December 6, 2011 at 13:44 pm

    I see. Now how “constitutional” is that – if a lawyer/attorney performs professional duties for a suspect in a corruption investigation then he is “serving a political master”. I would have imagined that would be part of his job.

    More of the same shit smearing campaign that is part of those who don’t want south Africans to be get to know to the full truth.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    “A TRC type approach will simply create the space for thugs to escape (with the money they stole).”

    Sure. Perhaps including but not limited to the Nelson Mandela Children Fund, MK and the entire ANC.

    “Zarina is a trustee of the Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund.”

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    December 6, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    One can drive a bus through the hole in your logic. Your basic ass umption is flawed. How do you build a culture of honesty and accountability? By giving everyone in a corner with nowhere to run get-out-of-jail-free-cards? It burns most people that Agliotti got to walk – that must not become the zeitgeist.

    I far prefer prosecuting schoolkids for fraud if they say their dog ate their homework.

    “How are we supposed to build an accountable and honest government on a foundation of lies and deceit?”

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 6, 2011 at 14:32 pm

    “How do you build a culture of nonracialism and human rights? By giving every racist and human rights abuser in a corner with nowhere to run get-out-of-jail-free-cards?”

    Just look what I done there.

  • Brett Nortje

    Gwebecimele says:
    December 6, 2011 at 13:28 pm

    You, Gwebecimele, want to become a member of the SAPS because you reckon having that camp full of Zimbabweans down the road from you is better than having your own ATM.

    ARe there rules and policies in the SAPS wrt age limit?

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    December 6, 2011 at 14:38 pm

    Magnus and Vlok’s generals were not in a corner with nowhere to run.

    If force were the only criterion they would still be in power today.

    The NP leadership – being made of more moral stuff than their ANC counterparts – grew sick to their stomachs of the ANC tactic of putting women and children in the front of the firing line and were no longer willing to pay the moral price for clinging to power.

    No doubt they had not an inkling that South Africa would 15 years later be upgraded to Stage 6 of genocide by Genocide Watch nor that the ANC would blow R20bn on graft or R36bn on wasteful moneycipalities or R243bn bailing out SOEs run into the ground by ANC deployees.

    They might have decided differently.

  • ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 6, 2011 at 15:10 pm

    “Magnus and Vlok’s generals were not in a corner with nowhere to run.

    If force were the only criterion they would still be in power today.”

    So the alternatives would have been what, becoming a pariah nation and suffering the same fate like Iraq, Libya or Israel?

  • Zoo Keeper


    Now that Selebi is in jail, how is your compensation case going?

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 14:17 pm

    Hey Ozone Guy,

    Zarina Maharaj certainly has an impressive CV.

    She did not seem to know much about what happened to all the boodle which flowed through her offshore bank accounts or even why it got there!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “the NP leadership ….grew sick to their stomachs of the ANC tactic of putting women and children in the front of the firing line and were no longer willing to pay the moral price for clinging to power”

    Thanks Brett, this is probably the most original explanation I have ever heard for De Klerk’s dramatic surrender. Please give more details, and perhaps some sources!

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    December 6, 2011 at 16:54 pm


    “this is probably the most original explanation I have ever heard”

    You ain’t seen nutting yet!

    (ok maybe you did).

    December 6, 2011 at 14:38 pm

    Brett Nortje says:
    December 6, 2011 at 14:32 pm

    How do you build a culture of nonracialism and human rights? By giving every racist and human rights abuser in a corner with nowhere to run get-out-of-jail-free-cards?”

    Just look what I done there.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 16:14 pm

    “Zarina Maharaj certainly has an impressive CV.”

    She is an impressive women. That is why I’m so absolutely appalled by the viscous attacks launched via the NPA, media and unfortunately this blog on her and her husband’s character and reputation.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 18:48 pm

    Ozone Guy,

    Given that, it’s odd that the dog also ate her homework!

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 18:55 pm

    Don’t know what your dog has to do with this. I believe the real reason for this hatred and the persecution of those “Indians” that Zuma “surrounds himself with” has always been ideological i.e. because Mac is a Communist.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 6, 2011 at 19:46 pm


    What are you on about?

  • ewald

    ozoneblue don’t you have your own blog?

  • Brett Nortje

    Zoo Keeper says:
    December 6, 2011 at 15:50 pm

    ZooKeeper, the SCA should hear the case in the next couple of months.
    Now JASA needs to raise money. All persons who place a premium on the rule of law should donate donate DONATE!

    I think there are three constitutional challenges pending – the challenges by SAGA and SAHunters and the TLU.

    But, it gets even better. When this government realised that the deregulation of pellet guns and muzzleloaders was a lifeline to what remained of the legal gun trade they – in a new low where arbitrariness and capriciousness is concerned – promptly reregulated the muzzleloaders which had been deregulated two years before.

    No reason – just turning the screws.

    There is no compensatory regime for those reregulated muzzleloaders – merely a dubious transitional provision that requires the owners of muzzleloaders to subject themselves to the same confiscatory regime that saw 6-year-backlogs in licence renewals, (now a three-year-backlog at the Appeal Board) and the refusal by Jackie Selebi and Charles Nqakula to provide for compensation for the oxymoronic ‘voluntary surrendered’ fireams as required by S134 of their own FCA.

    Haven’t I said it before?

    In countries with high levels of individual gun ownership a high premium is placed on the rule of law – in countries with low levels of gun ownership government simply laughs off the rule of law.

    Anyway, that transitional year to register muzzleloaders that were deregulated in 2004 and reregulated in 2006 is about to run out.

    The first person to be arrested for possession of a deregulated 2004 reregulated 2006 muzzleloader means the FCA is hopskipped into the ConCourt – in what should be a slam-dunk case.

  • Brett Nortje

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
    December 6, 2011 at 16:54 pm

    De wijze, waarop de vijand dezen oorlog heeft gevoerd en nog
    voert, heeft ons tot een toestand van uit-putting gebracht, welke uiteindelijk het voortzetten van den oorlog een physieke onmogelijkheid zal maken.

    Voor ons is en blift de slotsom der buitenlandsche situatie, dat
    wij veel sympathie krijgen, waarvoor wij natuurlik van harte
    dankbaar zijn, maar meer krijgen wij niet en zullen wij voor vele
    jaren niet krijgen. Europa zal met ons sympathiseeren, totdat de
    laatste Boerenheld in zijn graft ligt, totdat de laatste Boerenvrouw met gebroken hart naar het graf is gegaan, totdat ons gansche volk op-geofferd sal zijn op het altaar der geschiedenis en der menschheid.

    De feiten, door de afgevaardigden uit beide Republieken voor deze
    vergadering gebracht, overtuigen mij, dat het voor ons een
    misdaad sal zijn, met dezen strijd voort te gaan zonder
    verzekering van hulp van elders. Ons land is reeds in den grond
    geruineerd. Wij zullen dan ook ons volk hopeloos ruineeren,
    zonder eenig redelijk vooruitzicht op succes.

    Nou komt de vijand tot ons met een voorstel, dat, hoe
    onaanneem-baar ook, toch gepaard gaan met de belofte van amnestie
    voor de Koloniale broeders, die zich bij ons hebben aangesloten.
    Ik vrees, de dag zal komen, wanneer wij de zoogenaamde rebellen
    niet meer zullen kunnen redden en dan zal het een oorzaak van
    rechtvaardig verwijt zijn, dat wij ook hunne belangen hebben
    opgeofferd voor onze reeds hopeloos geworden zaak. En ik ben
    bang, dat het afslaan van het voorstel der Britsche Regeering ons
    veel sympathie in de buitenwereld zal doen verliezen en onze
    positie veel zal verzwakken.
    Broeders, wij hebben besloten tot het bittere einde te staan ;
    laten wij als mannen erkennen, dat dat einde voor ons gekomen is,
    gekomen in bitterder vorm dan wij ooit hadden gedacht. Voor een
    ieder van ons zou de dood een zoeter en zachter einde geweest
    zijn, dan de stap, waartoe wij nou zullen moeten overgaan. Maar
    wij bukken voor Gods wil. De toekomst is duister ; maar wij
    zullen den moed, de hoop, het vertrouwen op God niet prijsgeven.
    Nie-mand zal mij ooit overtuigen, dat de ongeevenaarde
    opofferingen, door het Afrikaansche volk op ‘t altaar der
    vrijheid gelegd, ijdel en tevergeefsch zullen zijn. De
    vrijheidsoorlog van Zuid-Afrika is gestreden, niet alleen voor de
    Boeren, maar voor het gansche volk van Zuid-Afrika. De uitkomst
    van dien strijd laten wij in Gods hand. Misschien is het Zijn wil
    om het volk van Zuid-Afrika door nederlaag, door vernedering, ja
    zelfs door het dal der schaduwe des doods, te leiden tot een
    betere toekomst in een heldere dag.

  • Maggs Naidu –

    While we were carrying Selebi on our shoulder to the gates of heaven!

    A POLITICALLY connected consortium which owns one of the country’s biggest fishing companies has secured a nearly R1-billion tender to police South Africa’s fishing industry at sea.

    Top empowerment firm Sekunjalo Investments heads the consortium.

    This has triggered concerns that the company is set to become both player and referee in the policing of the country’s R2-billion-a-year fishing industry.

    Sekunjalo owns a majority stake in Premier Fishing, which is active in several fisheries including rock lobster, anchovies, pilchard, hake and squid.

    A senior industry source said giving a fishing company influence over the country’s patrol fleet was a case of “the wolf guarding the hen house”.

    Sekunjalo chairman Iqbal Survé frequently travels abroad on state and business trips with government ministers and President Jacob Zuma. He is also a director of Premier Fishing, which was last week exposed for paying R100000 to provide around the clock security at the private home of International Relations Minister Maite Nkoana-Mashabane in Polokwane.

    The minister failed to declare the payments to parliament.

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 6, 2011 at 21:30 pm

    Maggs, I think what threw you is the use of the word ‘viscous’.

    In Afrikaans it translates as ‘dig’.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “In countries with low levels of gun ownership government simply laughs off the rule of law.”

    Brett is right. That is why the U.K. — where, until recently, even bobbies on the beat were armed only with their nightsticks and whistles — is now an archaic wasteland, with a murder rate amounting to virtual GENOCIDE!

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 7, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Hey G,

    ‘viscous’ = Ozone Guy = “of a glutinous nature or consistency; sticky; thick”

  • Brett Nortje

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
    December 7, 2011 at 9:55 am

    The UK had no gun control through much of its constitutional history. Less than the US.

    Even now, it has a higher level of legal gun ownership than South Africa and probably more unregistered guns, if some of the estimates are to be believed.
    Grandpa’s war trophy?

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 7, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Eish G,

    “Grandpa’s war trophy?”

    What has your Grandpa got to do with anything?

    Our head-prefect, Prof MO, is gonna be really, really pissed off.

  • Maggs Naidu –


    President Jacob Zuma and his former wife, Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, owe their body corporate R120 000 for electricity, water and rates for two flats they own in a building in Saratoga Avenue in Berea, Joburg.

    And, because the entire building where his units are situated is in arrears of R1.8 million for their municipal services, the electricity to Saratoga Gardens was cut off two weeks ago.

  • ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – says:
    December 7, 2011 at 8:43 am

    I see now what you are. A typical DA type propagandist. The fact that a tender has been awarded to whomever doesn’t imply “corruption” by itself except if irregularities are proven and procurement procedures where sidelined.

    Business men travel with ministers on foreign trade missions all the time. It is part of DTI programmes to expand South Africa’s foreign trade. This is just more the usual shit smearing from the usual sources based on innuendo, vicious rumor mongering and speculation.

    Same thing with as with the latest revived shit smearing campaign directed at Mac Maharaj.

    “The evidence amassed by them was that the State Tender Board and the National Roads Agency, both autonomous authorities totally independent of the Department of Transport, had respectively evaluated the relevant tender bids in terms of strict criteria, and awarded the tenders, on this basis, to the consortia in which Shaik had an interest; that Mac neither could have influenced, nor could have been involved in, nor was involved in either of their decisions; that the Department of Transport’s own earlier evaluation and recommendation to the State Tender Board that it award the driver’s licence tender to a consortium that was a rival of Shaik’s was rejected by the State Tender Board, which asked the Director-General of Transport to weight the criteria differently and re-evaluate the tenders in terms of this new weighting; and that in terms of this new evaluation the consortium in which Shaik had an interest won the tender.
    So the question is glaring: If there was no link between any payments made by Shaik to Mac and the awarding of the tenders to Shaik, and the NPA had proof of this, who was behind the leak to the Sunday Times, and why?”

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 7, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Hey Idiot Guy,

    “if irregularities are proven and procurement procedures where sidelined.”

    Irregularities are proven and procurement procedure were sidelined!

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Maybe Heath is also finish and klaar!

    Barely a week after taking over the hot seat as head of the Special Investigating Unit, advocate Willem Heath’s future hangs in the balance.

    In a dramatic twist, it now appears as if Heath might have struck the wrong chord with President Jacob Zuma over controversial comments he made about former president Thabo Mbeki last week.—after-just-one-week

  • ozoneblue

    “Throughout the interview, Heath heaped praise on Zuma, again defending him, saying that the money Shaik paid to Zuma was “part of a culture, and friendship and camaraderie, so it was a very common thing for those who had money to support the others”.”

    Certainly nobody wants to hear the truth. It is much easier for self-righteous little pricks like the naidoos and the PdVs of the world to cast judgment on all of humanity from the aloof heights of their privileged ivory tours.

  • Brett Nortje

    Zuma – being the principled guy he is – will find it much easier to fire Heath for ‘misconduct’ than admit that his ‘legal advisors’ (LOLOL!) let him appoint someone who was precluded from joining the civil service because of his age.


  • ozoneblue

    This is what we want in South Africa. Just substitute “Crown” with “State”.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 8, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Hey Idiot Guy,

    I’ve entered you as a contestant in a reality show.

    It’s called Master Twit SA – it’s byline is “the biggest loser must go“.

    JR is the judge. You’re the only candidate – you may win.

    There are nice prizes – Brett is donating his pigeons’ poop.

  • Pingback: Why Groenewald now has the best laugh on Mbeki’s “greatest confidence” in Selebi « Akanyang Africa()

  • Maggs Naidu –

    December 5, 2011 at 13:05 pm

    Hey Khosi – when you get back from the Twilight Zone, what would Mbeki say about these complaints?

    Got any of your special gems like ‘beneficiaries of apartheid should not complain’ or ‘the rogue cops are victims of apartheid’???

    Two Joburg women have been left shattered. Their rapists are in jail this weekend. But the two sisters don’t know who to trust because two of the attackers were uniformed police sergeants.

  • Brett Nortje

    Well, ZooKeeper, we told these pinko progressives this is what would happen.

    I blame Gun Free SA for sending a message to the cops that they are above the law.

    STEPHEN HOFSTATTER, MZILIKAZI WA AFRIKA and ROB ROSE | 11 December, 2011 01:1677 Comments

    Members of the Cato Manor organised crime unit celebrate just hours after killing five robbery suspects on the N3 highway near Camperdown on January 21 2009. The members with visible faces (not blurred) are, from left, Captain Eugene van Tonder, Captain Mossie Mostert and Captain Anton Lokum
    THE Sunday Times has uncovered evidence of an alleged “hit squad” operating in KwaZulu-Natal under the ultimate command of the province’s Hawks boss, Major-General Johan Booysen.
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    The Cato Manor organised crime unit in Durban has allegedly committed scores of assassinations, some in retaliation for suspected cop killings and others related to ongoing taxi wars.
    Booysen was previously the provincial head of organised crime. Suspended police chief General Bheki Cele caused a stir among provincial top brass last year when he unexpectedly promoted Booysen to head the Hawks in KwaZulu-Natal, even though his unit had courted controversy through its disproportionately high kill rate of crime suspects.

    Cele has been blamed for fuelling the killings of taxi bosses by making inflammatory remarks. According to court papers filed by taxi bosses fearing assassination at the hands of the unit, Cele reportedly said, speaking at the funeral of a slain police taxi task team investigator Superintendent Zethembe Chonco: “If SAPS members cannot arrest suspects and they feel that their lives are threatened they must take them to the nearest mortuary.”

    Police in KwaZulu-Natal, and the Cato Manor unit in particular, have been doing just that.

    Official figures from the Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD) show in the past three years KwaZulu-Natal police killed 527 suspects during the commission of a suspected crime, an escape, an investigation or arrest – by far the highest in South Africa. The Cato Manor organised crime unit accounted for 45 deaths.

    The ICD confirmed this week that six members of the Cato Manor unit had been investigated, some of them for killing suspects.

    Captains Mossie Mostert, Eugene van Tonder and Anton Lokum and the late Warrant Officer Rakesh Maharaj are among those being investigated. None of them could be interviewed by the Sunday Times this week, according to police spokesman Colonel Jay Naicker.

    The Sunday Times has, during an investigation that began last year, obtained testimony and copious evidence from dozens of people about the killings, including hundreds of death scene photographs and expert ballistics reports.

    Three senior police officials, a pathologist and a ballistics expert who examined the images concluded that they appeared to have been executions. None would be named.

    The Sunday Times has also interviewed several taxi industry bosses who claim to be assassination targets of the unit, and witnesses of at least two killings who refuse to make sworn statements to the ICD because they feared they would be killed.

    Suspicious police killings linked to the unit include:

    KwaMaphumulo taxi boss Bongani Mkhize, killed on February 3 2009 on Umgeni road after he took out an interdict in a bid to prevent police killing him;
    KwaMaphumulo taxi boss Lindelani Buthelezi, whose wife says he was “executed by police who entered my home”;
    Sandile Kinglock and Musa Qwabe, both suspects in the murder of a Durban lawyer, killed by police on September 14 2009 in two separate incidents;
    KwaMaphumulo taxi boss Magojela Ndimande and his bodyguard Sibusiso Tembe, killed on the N3 highway at Merrivale on September 16 2008. Witnesses say the police fabricated claims of a shoot-out;
    Five robbery suspects shot on the N3 near Camperdown on January 21 2009, which police followed with a drink-fuelled celebration;
    Four suspected cop killers massacred together on a mattress in a house in Inanda on April 13 2009; and
    ATM bombing suspect Lebogang Ranyali killed on March 27 2009 in Pinetown.
    In an interview with the Sunday Times this week, Booysen denied any knowledge of a hit squad. “I would strongly disagree with you. Their lives were at stake, they defended themselves in a shoot-out,” he said.

    He said it was unfair to brand the unit a hit squad because of its high kill rate of suspects, given the high number of violent criminals arrested by members. “Cato Manor only investigates murder, armed robbery, ATM bombing, serial killing and serious rape cases,” he said. “They made 437 arrests in the last two years. The facts are, they do arrest very violent people.”

    Last month Colonel Navin Madhoe – an officer in the provincial procurement office charged with trying to bribe Booysen with R2-million to drop a R60-million corruption case – gave the Hawks boss a memory stick, hard drive and two CDs containing hundreds of photographs showing what appear to be gruesome killings of suspects at the hands of the police.

    The images included several post-kill celebrations of members of the Cato Manor unit. In an affidavit, Madhoe says Booysen asked him to get the CDs as they contained “incriminating evidence of serious crimes in a unit under his direct command”.

    The Sunday Times has obtained the photographs.

    Asked if he believed it was callous to hold a party after killing suspects, Booysen said there was nothing wrong with police enjoying “social events”.

    The Camperdown images show close-ups of three of the suspects shot in the head. “That’s troubling. With head shots you want to look closely for evidence that suggests execution,” said a senior pathologist. “You would expect [many] more body and limb shots.”

    This was confirmed by the ballistics expert and two senior police officials, who said head shots of fleeing suspects were “highly unusual”.

    The experts all referred to images of weapons in several of the killings, including those of Qwabe, Ranyali, Buthelezi and Mkhize, as “highly suspicious”. They cited unusually clean guns in pools of blood and improbable positioning of suspects’ fire-arms.

    In court papers ballistics expert Kobus Steyl – a former member of the ballistics section of the SAPS forensic science laboratory with 19 years’ experience – concluded in two of the cases that “the shooting of the suspects, as alleged by the police, is questionable in regard to the self-defence scenario”.

    Although questions were put to individual members of the Cato Manor unit about their role in the killings, police spokesman Naicker said the policemen “cannot speak” as the ICD investigations “have not been finalised [and] we don’t want to compromise [them]”.

    In September, the South African Communist Party’s provincial leader, Themba Mthembu, issued a public resolution calling on the government to launch a judicial commission of inquiry to probe the Cato Manor “death squad”.

    “The Cato Manor squad is the new Vlakplaas, they operate in the same style,” he told the Sunday Times this week, referring to the apartheid-era unit led by Eugene de Kock that assassinated opponents of the National Party government in the 1980s.

    “We strongly believe that the duty of the police is to investigate and arrest suspects. But this unit has been killing more suspects than putting them behind bars. ”

    Booysen said he would have “no objection to something like [an official probe] – it may prove once and for all that the picture created about Cato Manor is totally wrong”.

    “You weren’t there. I wasn’t there. Let’s allow these cases to be investigated by the ICD and let the prosecuting authority deal with it in the appropriate way,” he said.

  • Brett Nortje

    Of course, we’re all shocked that this happens again, are we not?

    I wonder who is paying Wynanda…

    Selebi ‘too ill for prison hospital’
    SOLLY MAPHUMULO and WERNER SWART | 11 December, 2011 01:1617 Comments

    And, in a dramatic day on Monday, Selebi was “too ill” to make the 70km trip from his hospital bed in Pretoria to Johannesburg’s notorious “Sun City” prison.
    So says his lawyer, Wynanda Coetzee, who yesterday said he remained “seriously ill”. She added he needed special care “that cannot be provided for by the prison hospital”.

    On Monday Selebi received a last-minute reprieve.

    National Prosecuting Authority spokesman Advocate Mthunzi Mhaga said a warrant of committal was issued by the registrar of the High Court in Johannesburg .

    Department of Correctional Services head of prisons Zacharia Modise said the warrant stipulated that Selebi should be taken to Johannesburg Prison.

    However, since Selebi’s lawyers said he was not in a condition to travel to Johannesburg, he was taken to Pretoria Local Correctional Centre, a facility for sick prisoners.

    “Selebi’s doctors are busy looking at his condition. He is getting better treatment in Pretoria. I am not saying he was not going to get correct medical care at Johannesburg Prison, but Pretoria is close to his doctor,” Modise said.

    He said once Selebi’s condition had improved, a case-management committee would decide – based on his security classification – which prison was appropriate.

    The country’s former police commissioner started serving his 15-year sentence for corruption after losing his appeal in the Supreme Court of Appeal.

    He was rushed to Pretoria’s Jakaranda Hospital shortly after watching the SCA ruling on television at home.

    He was convicted for having a corrupt relationship with crime boss Glenn Agliotti and for receiving R150000 and an undisclosed amount of US dollars in benefits.

    Sibongile Khumalo, a spokes- man for the Department of Correctional Services, said: “He is out of danger. We wish to respect his family’s wishes to keep his medical condition private.”

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 12, 2011 at 0:33 am

    Hey G,

    “Of course, we’re all shocked that this happens again, are we not?”

    No. Not really. But we are a bit surprised.

    Anyway – that saying that a fish rots from the head seems inappropriate for us. Our fish is rotten all over. But well done to the Hawks for stopping another one of their own.

    Johannesburg – Two people, including a policewoman who has been on stress leave for three years, have been arrested in Cape Town for selling unlicensed ammunition, the Hawks said on Sunday.

    Polela said that the captain worked with the Hawks, but had been on stress leave for the last three years.

  • Brett Nortje

    HTF can anyone be on stress leave for three years?

  • Maggs Naidu –

    Brett Nortje
    December 12, 2011 at 9:06 am

    LOL o’G!

    “HTF can anyone be on stress leave for three years?”

    HTF can anyone be ‘terminally ill’ for decades?

    HFT can someone get ‘terminally ill’ by simply watching eNews?

    Maybe we should have a HFT-SA, kinda like Ripley’s ‘Believe it or not’, SA version!

  • Brett Nortje

    Sorry, Maggs. Blonde moment.

    But what do you make of the fact that the hitsquad was uncovered by the media not the Independent Complaints Directorate?

    AFter all, we discussed incidents on this blog that looked as if ‘la ley de fuga’ was becoming the law of the land in KZN?

  • Pingback: Jackie Selebi is finish and klaar « Eduard Grebe()

  • James
  • James
  • Brett Nortje

    It is time to send the ANC a strong message their world will change completely.