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	<title>Comments on: Joe Slovo case: the good, the bad and the (mostly) unstated</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Ntanjana A</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15220</link>
		<dc:creator>Ntanjana A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15220</guid>
		<description>Interesting comments indeed, I like it there is no insults</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments indeed, I like it there is no insults</p>
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		<title>By: Sne</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15143</link>
		<dc:creator>Sne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15143</guid>
		<description>I sense a propensity on the part od the Constitutional Court to stop being for the poor and marginalised in the society to being the strick interpreters of law. Adhering strictly to the confines of law instead of seeing to it that justice is dispensed or administered, I believe renders the duty of our Courts in the Constitutional dispensation tantamount to that of the Apartheid judges who were either bound by the belief in the legacy they were protecting or by the Parliamentary sovereignty.

Who knows, maybe the Government, in proposing the Constitutional amendment, wanted to officially put us in the Parliamentary sovereignty instead of letting us to lie to ourselves and think we are in the constitutional democratic state. I so look forward to a Constitutional challenge to the proposed amendmend which I think will go ahead regardless of the passianate overt and covert misgivings against it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sense a propensity on the part od the Constitutional Court to stop being for the poor and marginalised in the society to being the strick interpreters of law. Adhering strictly to the confines of law instead of seeing to it that justice is dispensed or administered, I believe renders the duty of our Courts in the Constitutional dispensation tantamount to that of the Apartheid judges who were either bound by the belief in the legacy they were protecting or by the Parliamentary sovereignty.</p>
<p>Who knows, maybe the Government, in proposing the Constitutional amendment, wanted to officially put us in the Parliamentary sovereignty instead of letting us to lie to ourselves and think we are in the constitutional democratic state. I so look forward to a Constitutional challenge to the proposed amendmend which I think will go ahead regardless of the passianate overt and covert misgivings against it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Smith</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15131</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15131</guid>
		<description>Applications for the four Concourt vacancies have opened... Wonder how all that will be going down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Applications for the four Concourt vacancies have opened&#8230; Wonder how all that will be going down.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15128</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 10:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15128</guid>
		<description>InternAfrica, thank you for responding to my post. 

Essentially you are saying that Sisulu overlooked a matter at home which she went abroad to see advocated. 

Regrettably, I know of only one way to construe this (although I hope I am wrong).

We can only hope she learnt something meaningful. Though some may well question whether she merely went for the tours and free finger food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>InternAfrica, thank you for responding to my post. </p>
<p>Essentially you are saying that Sisulu overlooked a matter at home which she went abroad to see advocated. </p>
<p>Regrettably, I know of only one way to construe this (although I hope I am wrong).</p>
<p>We can only hope she learnt something meaningful. Though some may well question whether she merely went for the tours and free finger food.</p>
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		<title>By: InternAfrica</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15127</link>
		<dc:creator>InternAfrica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15127</guid>
		<description>Leigh - Spot On!

The SAD SAD Thing was during the construction of Phase one, Lindiwe Sisulu (one of the impatient ones) was attending the WUF3 (world Urban Forum) in Canada - where the theme was:

NO relocation WITHOUT Consultation.

Do you think she learnt anything? Considering the mess she has left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leigh &#8211; Spot On!</p>
<p>The SAD SAD Thing was during the construction of Phase one, Lindiwe Sisulu (one of the impatient ones) was attending the WUF3 (world Urban Forum) in Canada &#8211; where the theme was:</p>
<p>NO relocation WITHOUT Consultation.</p>
<p>Do you think she learnt anything? Considering the mess she has left.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15125</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15125</guid>
		<description>Deference is one thing. But effectively condoning governmental misbehaviour is quite something else.

According to the Professor, government misconducted itself in, speaking broadly, three respects. In the first place, it failed to engage meaningfully with the residents so as to, I suppose, explore resolutions that would have avoided litigation. 

Secondly, the facts go to showing that government, inasmuch as it resorted to the emergency provision reflected in the PIE Act, acted impatiently rather than out of true urgency. 

Thirdly, and most disquietingly, government acted dishonestly. It did so insofar as it made certain misrepresentations which can only be described as being of the fraudulent variety. A species of governmental conduct that should be intolerable.

The Court overlooked the foregoing in that it held that government can tacitly withdraw consent that was tacitly given in the first place despite (a) proof to the effect that government was naughty and (b), patent and distressing proof to the effect that some of the most vulnerable members of our society will sustain grave prejudice.

In a nutshell, I cannot see how a court meant to (a) employ various constitutionally and jurisprudentially recognised means to foster and safeguard basic rights and (b) ensure that government does not stray out of bounds could give government such leeway despite its reprehensible behaviour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deference is one thing. But effectively condoning governmental misbehaviour is quite something else.</p>
<p>According to the Professor, government misconducted itself in, speaking broadly, three respects. In the first place, it failed to engage meaningfully with the residents so as to, I suppose, explore resolutions that would have avoided litigation. </p>
<p>Secondly, the facts go to showing that government, inasmuch as it resorted to the emergency provision reflected in the PIE Act, acted impatiently rather than out of true urgency. </p>
<p>Thirdly, and most disquietingly, government acted dishonestly. It did so insofar as it made certain misrepresentations which can only be described as being of the fraudulent variety. A species of governmental conduct that should be intolerable.</p>
<p>The Court overlooked the foregoing in that it held that government can tacitly withdraw consent that was tacitly given in the first place despite (a) proof to the effect that government was naughty and (b), patent and distressing proof to the effect that some of the most vulnerable members of our society will sustain grave prejudice.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, I cannot see how a court meant to (a) employ various constitutionally and jurisprudentially recognised means to foster and safeguard basic rights and (b) ensure that government does not stray out of bounds could give government such leeway despite its reprehensible behaviour.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre De Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15123</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15123</guid>
		<description>Anonymous, that is why I say &quot;purports&quot; to do it. If one does the math, it will not be possible. What will happen to the &quot;surplus people&quot; is a very disturbing question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, that is why I say &#8220;purports&#8221; to do it. If one does the math, it will not be possible. What will happen to the &#8220;surplus people&#8221; is a very disturbing question.</p>
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		<title>By: Katlego</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15122</link>
		<dc:creator>Katlego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15122</guid>
		<description>thanks, that was wonderful to read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks, that was wonderful to read.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/joe-slovo-case-the-good-the-bad-and-the-mostly-unstated/#comment-15121</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 00:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1122#comment-15121</guid>
		<description>I disagree strongly with the one statement which says: &quot;order purports to guarantee the return of most of the families&quot;.  That is not true.  It guarantees that 70% of the 1,500 BNG houses (so 1,050) to be build in Joe Slovo will go to Joe Slovo current and former residents.  There are over 4,500 current families and over 1,000 former families.    So 1,050/5,500 is less than 20%.  So less than 20% of Joe Slovo will end up back in Joe Slovo after going to the TRAs.  Thats an abysmal number.

Besides that, the judgement is pretty horrible in general.  And you are right, its hugely paternalistic but what can you expect from a bunch of people who have never lived in a shack nor even bothered to visit a Temporary Relocation Area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree strongly with the one statement which says: &#8220;order purports to guarantee the return of most of the families&#8221;.  That is not true.  It guarantees that 70% of the 1,500 BNG houses (so 1,050) to be build in Joe Slovo will go to Joe Slovo current and former residents.  There are over 4,500 current families and over 1,000 former families.    So 1,050/5,500 is less than 20%.  So less than 20% of Joe Slovo will end up back in Joe Slovo after going to the TRAs.  Thats an abysmal number.</p>
<p>Besides that, the judgement is pretty horrible in general.  And you are right, its hugely paternalistic but what can you expect from a bunch of people who have never lived in a shack nor even bothered to visit a Temporary Relocation Area.</p>
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