Julius Malema, leader of the ANC Youth League, has become a symbol of what is wrong with our politics and he may well cost the ANC a million or two votes come the next election. Most recently Kortbroek Malema urged students at the University of Limpopo not to allow Cope to lobby on their campus.
The ANC announced afterwards that no disciplinary action would be instituted against Malema but that other ways will be found to deal with Malema. This comes after Mr Jacob Zuma had said that he had spoken to Malema about his tendency to put his foot in his mouth.
If I was one of the COPE leaders I would hope and pray that the ANC’s relationship with Malema remains as dysfunctional as it is at present and that Malema continues to talk before he thinks, as this could only scare away more conservative voters from the ANC into the hands of COPE. The ANC and Jacob Zuma is of course faced with a dilemma, as Zuma depended on the Youth League in his battle against Thabo Mbeki and cannot now ditch Malema. This is because Zuma is beholden to Malema and cannot afford to alienate him until he is firmly ensconced in the Presidency.
That is why no disciplinary action will be taken against Malema, no matter what he says or how much he damages the good name of the ANC. This is what happens if you play the kind of politics that Zuma is playing, trying to be all things to all people – all at the same time. And it is only going to get more difficult for Zuma to deal with this situation, so good luck to him.
But there is a real legal problem for the likes of Mr Malema and for the ANC in the run-up to the election. This is that the Electoral Act requires political parties to sign a code of conduct which prohibits any party or candidate from using language that may provoke:
- violence during an election; or
- the intimidation of candidates, members of parties, representatives or supports parties or candidates or voters.
The code also prohibits any candidate or party from publishing false or defamatory allegations in connection with an election in respect of a party, its candidates, representatives or members or a candidate. If a person is found guilty of breaching this code the party ‘s representative is liable for a prison sentence of up to ten years.
Malema’s statement at Limpopo University may well have been in breach of this Code and if he had said this after the declaration of the election he might have been in very big legal trouble. But the ANC does not seem to take this very seriously and will not institute disciplinary action against Mr Malema for something he had said which might well carry a ten year prison sentence when it is said during an election campaign. So much for respect for the Rule of Law.
Meanwhile opposition parties must not be able to believe their luck. Here the ANC has a leader that is so stupid and outrageous that he is bound to say many more controversial and even illegal things during the election campaign. If I was an opposition party strategist I would be working on a “Malema strategy” to exploit the words and wisdom of Julius Malema to scare decent, conservative, voters (if that is not a contradiction) of any race into not voting for the ANC.
Good post Prof. Do you have any views on this whole thing about the name “COPE” – the ANC claiming intellectual property rights to the name and alleging that voters will be confused by the name because it also symbolizes the ANC? Seems to me that, if someone can be confused simply because the new party chose a name from an important diarized ANC event from the past, would mean that any party’s name would be able to confuse such voters. What about the Africanist National Congress using the name “NATIONAL” in its name? The ANC should remember that voters are not all illiterate and stupid, but that is what they are making them look like if they issue staements such as these, don’t you think?
You might have just given him a heads up, sigh. Of course that is if he can stop talking, but then even this might just say like he did recently that they must make cope members run when they visit the community, and then make it a matter of interpretation.
What’s the chance of the legal proceedings over the name succeeding?
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20081118102835372C890115
Apologies:
change:
“but then even this might just say”
to:
“but even then he might just say
Prof, I have just read this selfsame article at iol and I disagree. On what basis are you saying conservative voters won’t vote the ANC because of Malema’s utterances, do you know that those conservative voters voted Mandela despite Mokaba’s utterances of “kill the boer, the farmer”.
Mokaba’s utterances were more disturbing as they could have derailed negotiations and the country was volatile, but conservative voters like me still voted Mandela!
The media is once again deluding itself in its wishful thinking that Malema will cost the ANC votes, it wont happen now or ever, and what is wrong in spelling out the open secret( if you read Sunday tabloids) that Shilowa is a security guard who dispute his biological son’s partenity to evade paying maintanance thereby proving to be an irresponsible parent, Malema rightfully points out he is.
How can an irresponsible parent hope to be a responsible and honest leader, Hhm..?
Just to add on the media’s misreporting in order to mislead the nation, last week the media reported that Professor Meer had joined Shikota and it later transpired that she’s sti;ll 1oo% ANC.
It was repoprted Terror brought a battery of journalist to her house when visiting her, what do you make of this Terror, what was he trying to prove?
He dismally failed as she’s still ANC!
Let us not waste the ink arguing about who will get our votes, the D-day has been set as 25 March 2009 for national and provincial votes to be cast, I wonder whether Shikota has enough time to campaign?
I love Julius. He reminds me so much of me. You should see the letter of thanks I got from Barack and all the cards and tributes that keep pouring in from his grateful supporters.
Bad politics is all about playing the man not the ball and Julius and I share that skill. Sometimes it works, but mostly intelligent voters want to hear about policies and strategies and soon get tired of hearing negative rhetoric about the opposition, since it is usually an attempt to disguise ignorance and divert attention from the real issues.
Its actually very funny – the farce that is the public face of the ANC at the moment, at least at the sharp end, if thats the right term. Malema and Zuma, what a team. That the ANC will still win the election handsomly in spite of them is not quite as amusing. But, the opposition, whatever its called will make inroads, and for that we should be thankful…
We will see if the COPs are able to cope with the ROBBERS.
Mdu // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:57 am
“How can an irresponsible parent hope to be a responsible and honest leader, Hhm..?”
The fact that Shilowa is(was) an uneducated security guard cannot be to his disadvantage when pitted against Msholozi. That, I will put to you, make him way less (somewhat acceptable) bourgeois than the masses have been told he is, even by the president of the ANC. And that also undoes the elitist label that has been given to COPE. In fact, Shilowas’ story of his rise from security guard to his position as premier of Gauteng and his successes there, is a story that could resonate very well the working class and the poor. They also aspire to have a life he has and he has shown them that they can.
This is the very argument that people put forward against the ANC president. You are using it in a very juvenile manner because you are failing to see that it is thornier on your side of the stick.
Mfowethu, you are making Msholozi to look bad. Stop defending him and the ANC if you can’t. Leave that to the likes of Lindelani and Setumo Stone.
1. Julius did NOT say Cope should not be allowed @Turfloop “campus” but rather NOT @ANC branches pretending to be ANC members. DELIBERATE DISTORTION BY THE MEDIA AND PUNDITS! 2. In Northern Cape he said any “premier/councillor/MEC etc… deployed by the ANC but wanting to join cope they must leave NOW” -He did not mention Dipuo Peters by name as was DELIBERATELY MISREPORTED BY THE MEDIA AND PUNDITS! I m more convinced that the THIRD FORCE is back at play here- Watch this space!…pity people dont see these liers as people wanting to reverse the gains of our revolution (i.e they are CRs)!
I sometimes wonder about those who think Malema is doing a fine job.
About Peter Mokaba: Mandela called him to order and he promised to (and he did) change his slogan to ‘Freedom during Mandela’s time’.
Anonymouse // Nov 18, 2008 at 11:28 am
To amplify Anonymouse’s question, if a an interdict is granted against Cope, would it invariably have an impact on their application to the IEC. Would this trample on their S16 right to form a party, particularly seeing that a limitation of this right on the basis of (a deprivation and not expropriation) Intellectual Property Rights does not, in my mind, justify the inadvertent limitation of the right to form a political party and organise (particularly six months before elections and when the courts are going to recess thus preventing certainty in regard to the name, in time for campaigning)?
Spuy
Thank you for reiterating this fact, the media is feeding into the delusion of denialists.
Khosi, I am glad you’re now converted into a Msholozi supporter but since I think you’re still a Shikota supporter don’t patronize me as to how I should defend my Party and its Honourable President!
Spuy, were you at Turfloop and at the Northern Cape meeting? If not, how do you know the reports are wrong? Because Malema said so? Do you believe him? Why? In my experience the media do get it wrong sometimes but obviously (duh!) this is not because they are part of a third force (please, can we stop this madness of looking for a third force under every bed – the National party looked for a Communist under every bed too and it said much about their own moral bankruptcy) but because they are human and make mistakes.
Mouse, in my opinion the ANC does not have a case against COPE in terms of the Electoral Act as the name is not sufficiently similar to that of an EXISTING party to confuse voters (which is the requirement of the Act). As I understand it they are making an argument based on intellectual property rights (trade mark) on which I am not an expert. But I would be very surprised if the ANC wins or even if their lawyers have advised them they have a good chance of winning. This case is not so much about winning but about harassing COPE and creating uncertainty about the name, I would suspect. But as I said I am not a trade mark lawyer and have not been studying this issue so I might be wrong. If I am, the law is an ass.
“But the ANC does not seem to take this very seriously and will not institute disciplinary action against Mr Malema for something he had said and might well carry a ten year prison sentence when it is said during an election campaign. So much for respect for the Rule of Law.”
I find this a very dubious comment Pierre. Firstly, no comments were made during an election campaign and so there is no need to introduce hyperbole in the form of alleged ten year prison sentences. It therefore follows that no adverse interpretation can be made in relation to the ANCYL’s commitment to the Rule of Law.
In any event, the ANCYL has their own Constitution with it’s own Disciplinary process. Why don’t the members of the Chris Hani branch or whoever it was who issued the statement saying they deeply regretted supporting his election to President make an official complaint to launch a Disciplinary Hearing?
Mdu – “How can an irresponsible parent hope to be a responsible and honest leader, Hhm..?”
I must join Khosi on this issue. The same kind of question can be asked as far as Msholozi’s future leadership of this country is concerned – You know, that fat guy singing ‘Awuleth Umshini Wami’ when his supporters try and put pressure on (I won’t say ‘rape’)the judicial system; that immoral and unethical married man, who sleeps with a family friend less than half his age, knowing that she is HIV positive and, not being sure whether she was saying yes or no; that man who does everything in his power not to have his day in court, but shouting everywhere else that he does want his day in court; than man who has received R Millions in interest free loans that have not yet been repaid, and who does not want the diary that proves he was involved in the Arms deal scam to be handed over to the South African Prosecuting Authority; that man who one day says he is with Afrikaners and their plight, and the next day says he is not because he is still for the revolution; that same man who …
How on earth can such a man ever ‘hope to be a responsible and honest leader, Hhm..?’
If Malema is gagged, what else will he do? Does he have anything else to do? In the old chief’s court, men who spoke nonsense would be sent off to slaughter the goat for the court’s meal!
Why am I being moderated?
Mpho // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:38 pm
You are not being moderated. That happens to me too. I am using firefox on a Macbook.
Clear you web logs. You should be fine.
Mouse, I did not say Zuma is an honest leader but said ask a question about Shilowa to which you and Khosi still has to answer.
Be that as it may Zuma will be President of a collective ANC and alliance government and not a one-man government, were it to be like that I would surely be concerned as we are from a one-man government and this is dangerous because people are fallible and tend to think they are indespensable.
So Mouse rest assured of responsible leadership as Zuma won’t govern alone, and he listens!
Prof – Pierre De Vos // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Thanks for your input, and I agree that the ANC has no case, not before the IEC, nor before the courts. I have just returned from a workshop, “First South African Judicial Workshop on the Proper Adjudication of Intellectual Property Cases” hosted at VdBpark by ARMSA and the US Dept of Justice where the legal issues concerned here have been discussed at length and in depth. The phrase “Congress of the People” is definitely not a term of art, or something so out of the ordinary (an original idea that has been expressed in a tangible medium of expression so that a copyright could be vested therein); the ANC has never registered that phrase as a trade mark (neither could it ever have been so registered – because it is not a sign that is capable of distinguishing the goods or services of one enterprise or undertaking from those of others’); and, there is no sufficient linkage of the phrase to the ANC as a political party, so that its supporters or voters would become confused when seeing the new party’s name (COPE) on a balot paper. I think the ANC’s lawyers, who served these papers on Terror (isn’t there an intellectual property right vested in this term?) Lekota, are just out on making a quick buck while their ideas are dead in the water.
Mdu – where did you get the date of 25 March 2009 from? I cannot see it having been anounced as the election date anywhere in the media. Is this to curb opposition parties’ (including COPE’s) chances at proper campaigning?
Mdu – “So Mouse rest assured of responsible leadership as Zuma won’t govern alone, and he listens!”
Like Malema listens?!
On another discussion it said your post is awaiting moderation or something. And it still hasn’t been posted. Why?
Mpho – are you referring to this poist? …
Mpho // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Mouse, I got the date iol but the same iol now reports that the ANC has rubbished this report, so Shikota still has time to campaign.
Mdu // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:56 pm
The problem with you is that you are trying to judge Zuma and Shilowa using different standards. What I am saying to you is that The question that you ask of Shilowa would be more damning if it were to be asked of Zuma. Thats it.
What am I converted from?
No I said something about Obama and why he is African American and not half-white. But it got moderated even though there was no web link or anything. It was on the other thread. You were talking to Takera or whatever s/he’s called.
Mouse go to http://www.iol.co.za to see these conflicting report, however the ANC has denied setting this date saying it’s the prerogative if IEC to do so and that it has always been it’s prerogative to set election dates and it wont start interfering now.
Khosi so you agree Shilowa is irresponsible, thank you Mfowethu.
Mdu – “Mouse, I did not say Zuma is an honest leader but said ask a question about Shilowa to which you and Khosi still has to answer.”
I agree with Khosi on this one. However, I don’t think Shilowa would, on his own, be a responsible and honest leader, neither do I think Terror Lekota could be that, on his own that is. I am also not a COPE supporter (in that I would vote for it), but I think it is good that it has been established as a breakaway from the ANC. The question however is, will that party (COPE?) be responsible and honest in leading (at least its voters)? And, will COPE (together with the other parties) be able to withold the ANC from grabbing yet another two-thirds majority? … I think so, which would not be a bad thing.
Thanks for the clarity on the date issue. Now citizens living and working abroad can still try and force the IEC in registering their right to vote.
Oh Mdu, I don’t think it is that Zuma won’t govern alone, it seems perfectly obvious that he can’t govern. Look at this ripping apart of the party, the insults fired off at everyone who’s not on his side or he’s not in their pocket, the desperate need to marginalise the Head of State behind his all singing all dancing roadshow, the Malema boy, the contrary policy statements, the running to court and bullying of an opposition you keep claiming you are unconcerned by…
Anonymouse // Nov 18, 2008 at 2:25 pm
@Mouse
A very neat shot… It struck between the eyes. ( I think you’re a sniper
)
@Mdu
The Mouse took you out, better be quite for a while now
Retsrov – Thanks, that is what faceless sewer rats do best (ask Khosi).
Mpho // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:18 pm
“You were talking to Takera or whatever s/he’s called.”
Mhpo: It Tatera. That is what s/he is called.
Tatera – just as I speak on the other post, you respond. Welcome to this bout of fun.
Mdu – I’s still waiting for a response on this post? Anonymouse // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Prof, let me respond. Firstly I was in Thaba Nchu where the Kill for Zuma statement was supposedly said-I m still shocked by how to date people all over were mislead on the context of that statement. Secondly, On his interview with Ike Phahla of SAFM yesterday, Malema called on the media to produce evidence of things he s accused of! (i.e audio records for both ‘Dipuo Peters’ and ‘Turfloop Campus’ utterances). Neither the SABC nor any media house has been able to produce such. Tell me how then how then, Prof, am I supposed to buy into this Organised False Reporting. It truely is part of Counter Revolution, peddled by both old white rich racists and few coconuts who believe they ve now riched the Promised land. They are Counter Revolutionaries and we will never be apologetic for relevantly n correctly labelling them. I mean, howelse must we view their Organised Lies???
OK – No takers. I’m off to a nice cup of tea before tjaile and then, later, a nice 1 KG T-Bone and some Red Heart Rum, Coke and Eish. Will look in again tomorrow.
Spuy – Have you taken over lindelani’s guise? Your linguistic skills (or, rather, lack thereof) and way (style – if it can be called that) of reasoning suggests that either you are twins, or you are that guy Michael Osborne has unmasked a few days 9weeks?) ago.
Spuy, it could also just be that they don’t like him and so are happy to whip up a bit of hostility at his expense. It doesn’t need to be scarey monster stuff. Afterall, he is an unlikably fool, isn’t he?
9weeks?) – should read (weeks?). Could however not resist te last remark before finally signing off.
Mouse, ,alema is misquoted by the media and I just read on news 24 that the ANC NWC supports his utterances and they do not consider Malema a liability just as I posted earlier on, and Spuy,as always, correctly supported me.
Retsrov, it always depends which side of the fence you’re on so what you are saying proves nothing, really!
Ja, Mdu, I agree. And all that back slapping stuff is really weak on a debating site for lawyers anyway.
Anonymouse // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:38 pm
“OK – No takers. I’m off to a nice cup of tea before tjaile and then, later, a nice 1 KG T-Bone and some Red Heart Rum, Coke and Eish. Will look in again tomorrow.”
Mouse: Do you not blog at night.? Should not do it during work time. Where will you find time to send guys to jail?
Mpho // Nov 18, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Ja, Mdu, I agree. And all that back slapping stuff is really weak on a debating site for lawyers anyway.”
For Lawyers, don’t take yourselves so seriously!!
Here is a joke to lighten you up:
A doctor had just bought a villa on the French Riviera, when met an old lawyer friend whom he hadn’t seen in years, and they started talking. The lawyer, as it turned out, owned a nearby villa. They discussed how they came to retire to the Riviera.
“Remember that lousy office complex I bought?” asked the lawyer, “Well, it caught fire, and I retired here with the fire insurance proceeds. What are you doing here?”
The doctor replied, “Remember that real estate I had in Mississippi? Well, the river overflowed, and here I am with the flood insurance proceeds. It’s amazing that we both ended up here in pretty much the same way.”
“It sure is,” the lawyer replied, looking puzzled, “but I’m confused about one thing – how do you start a flood?”
Spuy, politics is indeed a dirty game! That is why I am loathe to engage in politicking. Deliberate misquotes and allowing politicians to get away with murder by not answering questions during interviews – just makes me want to vomit!
Last night I listened to Lekota’s interview on MetroFM. He got away with murder! Not so long ago Msholozi had done the same thing on MetroFM. Sometimes I wish they could be subjected to cross-examination proper!
Tatera – good joke. Like this Irishman in a Dublin Gaol, who boasted that he got 25 years for ‘shoplifting’. When he gor quisical looks from the murderers and terrorists inside with him, he conceded, “Well, I lifted that shop about six feet high.” I sometimes blog at night yes, but sometimes, like today, my roll crashed due to incompetent prosecutors’ actions (or non-actions). Sometimes I quickly blog during short adjournments (waiting time), and, unlike what many females accuse us of, I can multitask. But now, off for that Rum, Coke and Eish.
Mouse:
If you know what Tatera means you will realise that we are related.
White rum on the rocks is much better.
I really can’t explain it, but after reading this posting this article came to my mind;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
By Perter Mulder of the FF+
Qouted for brevity, Bua
……In 1994 President Mandela did not want Mr. Thabo Mbeki as his deputy president. His choice was Mr. Cyril Ramaphosa. One of Mr. Mandela’s reasons was that it should not appear that a Xhosa clique existed in a country which is very sensitive about its ethnicity. Messrs. Mbeki and Mandela are both Xhosas. Mr. Mbeki is very good with lobby-politics in the inner circles. With lobby-politics he succeeded in getting Ms. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela of the Women’s League, Mr. Peter Mokaba of the ANC Youth and Mr. Jacob Zuma as prominent Zulu ANC Member to support him. With this pressure on Mandela, he appointed Mr. Mbeki as deputy president. Mr. Ramaphosa was offered the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs. He saw this as an insult and eventually exchanged the political world for the business world. Mr. Mbeki thereafter created the climate within the ANC that the deputy president of the ANC automatically succeeds the president.
When Mr. Mandela retired as president after only one term, Mr. Mbeki was elected unopposed at the ANC’s 1997 conference in Mafeking as president of the ANC and so also the next president of South Africa. The question was now, who has to become the deputy president in Mr. Mbeki’s place? Mr. Mbeki wanted to avoid already appointing his successor. Mr. Jacob Zuma was a harmless and loyal ANC member who, according to the opinion of the Mbeki grouping, could never be president. The solution was to appoint Zuma as deputy president. In so doing, the real struggle for Mr. Mbeki’s successor was postponed till later.
Thereafter Mr. Mbeki goes overseas as usual while Mr. Zuma does his work as deputy president. Mr. Zuma attends all the ANC funerals with Ms. Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and he addresses stadium crowds in the absence of Mr. Mbeki. When Mr. Mbeki returned from one of his many overseas visits, he discovers that ANC supporters accept that Mr. Zuma would be his successor in the same way that Mbeki had created the climate that he would automatically become Mr. Mandela’s successor. That was unacceptable for Mr. Mbeki. Where he as president should have gotten rid of poor ministers such as Mrs. Msimang of Health, he did not fire any minister.
At the first possible opportunity (June 2005) he does however fire Mr. Zuma as deputy president and so believes that he solved the problem. (It is noticeable that on the day of Mr. Zuma’s firing, Mr. Lekota was making jokes with us as the opposition about it from across the Assembly floor, while the other ministers were upset, despondent and sad. As number three in the ANC behind Mr. Zuma, Mr. Lekota most certainly had done the math and had seen himself as the strongest pretender to replace Mr. Mbeki.) To better understand Mbeki’s end as president, we should quickly give attention to an important sideshow in 2001.
Five years after Mbeki was elected as ANC president in 1997, various top positions had to be filled again at the ANC’s national conference in 2002. Cyril Ramaphosa, Matthews Phosa and Tokyo Sexwale, are some of the names which are mentioned as possible successors to Mbeki. It is important that they should start stepping forward. Out of the blue, a year before the ANC’s national conference, Minister Steve Tshwete, the Minister of Safety and Security, alleges in 2001 that there is a plot against Mr. Mbeki which threatens his life. Coincidentally, he drops the names of Cyril Ramaphosa, Matthews Phosa and Tokyo Sexwale on television as those who are involved in the plot.
The police investigate the issue and at the end of that year Minister Tshwete apologises to the three after nothing could be proven. The allegations however does so much damage to these three’s public image that they are effectively knocked out of any successor-race and find themselves outside of politics in the cold…….
Ones actions have a way of catching up with you. I agree with you Prof when you start that “it is only going to get more difficult for Zuma to deal with this situation, so good luck to him.” Good luck to him indeed.
If you ask me Mqo, I would say its you and Prof who need luck. Coz whether you like it or not “Zuma o tla busa” / “U Zuma u zo phatha (sic)”. Prepare yourselves for the Zuma Presidency- you ll actually be suprised that a Zuma Presidency might not be so bad as u actually anticipate- ask “lankbroek” Pieter Mulder prof!
Pierre, you give Malema too much credit by saying that he may “scare decent, conservative, voters. .. of any race into not voting for the ANC.” That suggests that Malema himself is somehow a radical or a revolutionary. — exactly the image he wishes to project.
But I think it is Malema himself is a conservative — in the same sense that PW Botha, who earned his stripes breaking up opposition party meetings, was an anti-democratic “conservative.”
Spuy
What will happen if the NPA wins the appeal and Zuma’s fails to have the charges permanently dropped?
Does the ANC have a Plan B in case Zuma is found guilty in a court of law (ultimately)?
Tony – Plan B has in fact become plan A when Kgalema Mothlanthe was elected.
Spuy – “lankbroek” is actually spelt “langbroek”.
Mqo // Nov 18, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Aaahh, for the predictions of history.
My thought on Malema : He will probly end up like Mokaba, same place, same way, same reason…
Since the split, the remaining ANC, has without realizing it, started acting like an opposition party. They now do things like disrupting COPEs rallies, name-calling and niggling at other political parties (like Tony Leon with wet panties) and in yes they are threatening violence with little songs like bring me my machine gun. We have yet to hear any viable promises, suggestions or policies from the ANC. It seems like they have a plan, but the plan is like that of an opposition party. Its almost like the ANC has lost confidence in itself, they know they have fallen apart and don’t know how to pull themselves together. On the other hand the DA has started acting like a governing party. Id like to see COPE and DA hold hands.
The CT reports thyat Lekota has dismissed Zuma’s words condemning a possible COPE/DA alliance as [anti-white] “racism.”
Here Cd., Lekota has really lost the plot. Is he not aware that, because whites have historically monopolised power, anti-white racism is ipso facto IMPOSSIBLE?
I have enjoyed perusing the contributions of fellow bloggers. I was in the rural landscape galvanising voters for the ANC alongside Zuma and other staunch leaders and members of the ANC. Yesterday as you have been debating, Deon De Lange could only see unethusiastic 500 people in the crowd of not less than ten thousand (R10 000).
This point illustrates hoe the media are prone to blatant distortions to influence public opinion. I do not want to defend Malema for tactless utterances but for heaven’s sake how illegal is it for malema to criticise a felloe politician for failing to cater for the welfare of his own son, biological offspring and hope to care for total strangers?. I cannot agree will Julius on the Security Guard issue as that is not any less social status. As a had pointed out in the past. He is not infallible.
The infallibility does not qualify him to shut his mouth as that trenches upon his fundamental constitutional rights. I do not see how conservative voters will choose to vote Shikota to the total disregard of the palpony of organisations in the pot.
There is a wish on the part of many persons who basically hate the ANC to see Lekota cweeping our voters, but very unfortunately he will have supporters of DA and UDM wanting a new home in the Congress of the People.
I seem to agree with prof on the intellectual property debate but that does not disentitle the ANC to test this with the Courts. Since the judges do not even peruse the legal jurisprudence of the apex constitutional court, they might as well rule in our favour. I have elected to be deliberately partisan.
I do think that we do not have to intimidate and instigate violence against any organisation and will tap inot your free legal opinion regarding the Electoral Act. We will soon run a workshop for all election volunteers.
Honestly, I predict that Shikota will fair dismally in the elections as they do not promise society water, electricity and all we want except the protection the Constitution and doctrine of the rule of law. Put crudely the ultimate incarceration of Zuma or a possible coalition produced President.
We have the Courts and Prof to protect us from infraction of the law. Zuma neve had any political solution to his problems so far. He resorted to the Court in line with our law and extracted a favourable ruling from a Judge who is depicted as incorrect by legal scholars and interestingly Kriegler former judge.
I predict that Harms will oveturn the decision and add to the theatrical politico-legal match is South Africa. The ANC has plenty in its pool of leadership, When Mbeki left Kgalema took over. There will never be any crisis. Whatever the legal outcome Zuma would, im my view, become President of RSA.
I do know that some don’t like it. it is a reality we must be prepared to embrace as passive recepients of democracy for which Zuma spent his life fighting for.
The ANC argues that he is so willing to team up with DA to advance the interests and aspirations of the economic ruling class, the capitalists. it is not a racist angle we hold. Lekota exposes his poor theoritical depth.
We seek to project our position as the disciplined force of the left which asserts the hopes and aspirations of the working class and rural poor who constitute the significant proportion of electorate in the forthcoming elections.
He is more confortable to address intellectuals in small varsity halls, he must watch our stadia, the masses are simmering in the villages!
Poor former comrade, he cuts a bitter comrade, what happened to him? He used to such articulate character; he now waffles pointlessly
Ishmael, yes, I am quite sure we can expect a Zuma government to push strongly pro-poor and working class economic policies — very, very different from the DA.
I am sure that the masses understand that when Zuma assures international capitalists in New York and London that he will maintain the government’s neo-liberal economic agenda, he is only joking. (Clearly, aside from his dancing and singing skills, Zuma has a marvellous sense of humour!)
Michael Osborne // Nov 19, 2008 at 9:50 am
The report I read said that Lekota had asked why a potential alliance with the DA was causing concern for Zuma and yet all the other reported potential mergers were not. Lekota said the only difference he could see was that the DA was led by a white woman. Lekota then said that he was not concerned by the colour of a leader, but their commitment to democracy.
Now that is quite different to what you have reported, isn’t it?
Ishmael Malale // Nov 19, 2008 at 10:03 am
Although I agree with a lot of what you said, your comments that Shilowa’s parenting history is fair game for Malema strikes me as being rather strange, given that every time someone makes mention of Zuma’s multiple wives, etc., they are told to shut up and stop bringing his private life into the discussion, every time they mention the inappropriateness of Zuma having sex with someone tantamount to his neice whom he knew to be positive and yet failed to take precautions because he figured the risk of contracting was too low, they are told whom Zuma sleeps with is for him and his wives to contend with, etc., etc., etc. We need consistency here. But most of all we need to shut that stupid boy up.
I agree with you that it is disgraceful that a boy with no education should be sneering at Security Guards, who must sit entrance exams before entering their profession, and who are classic ANC supporters.
Tatera // Nov 18, 2008 at 4:13 pm
My point is, make your acceptance apparent by a well structured post, not just Good Post old chap!
I think that’s stupid and it creates people siding with each other which is not helpful in a free flow of opinions.
I can tell jokes. Hell I even got Setumo Stone to laugh once!
Mpho, see the front page of the Cape Times today, Lekota is reported to have said:
“Why did [Zuma] single out the DA . . . It suggests to me a mentality of racism …”
On the whole question of the ANC’s claim to intellectual property rights in the name of COPE, I have stubled on the following column by Georgina Guedes
http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Georgina_Guedes/0,,2-1630-2022_2429587,00.html
It more or less equals the sentiments I voiced earlier in this regard, so it would seem that I am not alone. Today’s the deadline for COPE to respond to the so-called “legal letter of demand” served on COPE a while ago. If I were one of the COPE members, I would say, “Stuff you!”
Mpho // Nov 19, 2008 at 12:37 pm
“My point is, make your acceptance apparent by a well structured post, not just Good Post old chap!
I think that’s stupid and it creates people siding with each other which is not helpful in a free flow of opinions.
I can tell jokes. Hell I even got Setumo Stone to laugh once!”
Your point is not all together clear to me but hell that is probably why I am not a lawyer.
Well, we all know that it is impossible for the ANC to run into legal problems. They only have political problems which can be solved politically, regardless of law, constitution or anything else.
We also know that Malema’s version of the Rule of Law means those in his good books go free while those in his bad books (those anti-revolutionary books) get booked. Or killed or annihilated when Zuma and Malema march to the Union Buildings.
At first, I was disgusted with Malema’s level of education, his disregard for hard working, earnest people like security guards (who, by the way, have to deal with public transport and unions who burn down their homes or throw them on train tracks if they refuse to join a strike) and his kill for Zuma comments, but without Malema, there would be no COPE, so I’m thankful for his presence in the ANC.
Garg Unzola!
Your reflections on Malema are far-fetched. Malema has always prooved to be autonomous thinker and impartial cadre who is never afraid of intellectuall debates or confrontation. He was able to stand against those who disrespected the rule of law and did not appreciate the separation of powers as entreched in our constitution like T Mbeki. What could be more wrong with standing for what you believe in.
You will with time realise that what merely Malema is doing is contrary to what you would want people to believe when coming to a rule of law. He stood up for JZ against political interference by TM in his case. That amounts to a defence for the rule of law and promotion of the rights of every citizen in our country.
Tony!
Your query regarding plan B the ANC has if JZ’ charges resurface and convicted.
JZ has always said he will dessociate himself from the position of the President if convicted, and the ANC has always advised that its constitutions would prevail when coming to that situation. I guess the ANC has a number of cadres who can excellin that position.
I see you enjoy forgetting the good JZ has said.
ANC,COPE,DA,UDM and all that, why not only two parties in a small county like ours. if Americas can have two….what makes us better? democracy I think is not only about having 104 parties is much more than party formations. Does this not tell that we are a divided society?