Our politics seems to have descended into complete madness – and so soon after the election. Please people, take a deep breath, calm down, and step back from the abyss. We are all trying to give reign to our hopes and not our fears in the post-election glow, but some politicians never got that memo.
First Helen Zille, finding herself in a fix because of her palish, all-male cabinet, fired off a moralistic broadside (better suited to a right wing fundamentalist Christian) against President Jacob Zuma just days after he was sworn in. One would have thought that Zille would have observed the tradition of allowing the new President some sort of political honeymoon in order not to alienate the 11 million voters whom she would like to convert to the DA before the next election.
Making moralistic pronouncements about the President’s private life (who knows what the arrangements and understandings are between Zuma and his wives?) really only hands the ANC a propaganda coup and reminds us of the reactionary tendencies of the DA.
Then the youngsters at the ANC Youth League – perhaps jealous at Zille for stealing the limelight – sunk far, far, lower, with a sexist and defamatory statement so juvenile and ignorant that it is hard to believe the statement was not produced by “dark forces” (maybe the CIA or those “apartheid agents” lurking amongst the Scorpions?) hell bent on embarrassing the ANC, stating:
Zille has appointed an all male cabinet of useless people, majority of whom are her boyfriends and concubines so that she can continue to sleep around with them, yet she claims to have the moral authority to question our President.
If the fake racist girl Zille continues to speak hogwash like she has been doing during elections, we will take militant action against her, and demonstrate to her that she does not have monopoly over the Western Cape. The fake racist girl who was dropped on a head as child should understand that South Africa will never be a Mickey-mouse Republic like she wants to portray it.
If Zille wanted to, she could sue the (short) pants off the Youth League for this absurd and ignorant display of brutal and naked prejudice. Really, robust debate is great, but hurling such infantile insults reflect very poorly on those who had concocted this statement. Ironically the statement displays the very same sexism that the youngsters accuse Zille of.
Then, just when I thought things could not get more absurd, I see that the usually compassionate and sensible Tony Ehrenreich, Cosatu’s secretary in the Western Cape, announced that Cosatu had lodged papers in the Equality Court to challenge the decision by Helen Zille to appoint an all-male cabinet, saying that the make-up of the Cabinet showed disregard for the country’s constitutional and legislative principles.
Oh please, get a grip.
One may very well criticise Zille for appointing an all-male cabinet. Personally I think it reflects very poorly on the DA in general and Zille in particular that she claims not to have been able to find one competent women from among the DA members in the Western Cape Legislature to appoint as an MEC. Either Zille does not want other women in her cabinet because she feels threatened by them, or the DA is so male-centric that it did not attract any competent women to stand for election for the Provincial Legislature. Either way, it provides the ANC with a big stick to hit Zille with and tarnishes her image with the media elites.
But having said that, the Equality Court challenge is so preposterous that I cannot believe any lawyer actually signed off on this idea. This is because the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act (PEPUDA) clearly states – as if it was necessary to do so – that the Act was subject to the Constitution. And when one reads the Constitution in its entirety it is as clear as day that the kind of political decision to appoint a cabinet will not be subject to PEPUDA.
There are several reasons for this.
Section 132 of the Constitution bestows the power on the Premier to appoint an Executive Council from among the members of the provincial legislature and does not require the Premier to take into account race or gender considerations. Elsewhere in the Constitution, the appointment power is fettered by requiring the appointing authority to consider the need “to reflect broadly the race and gender composition of South Africa”. But this is explicitly not required when the President or the Premiers appoint a cabinet, allowing them a very broad discretion to make the political appointments (or fire members of their cabinets) as they wish.
Unless this discretion was exercised in bad faith, for example, by appointing a person to cabinet after being paid a bribe, no court of law will have the power to interfere with the exercise of this discretion. I cannot imagine any Equality Court judge entertaining this application seriously.
There is a very good reason for this. The President or the Premiers exercise a naked political discretion when appointing (or firing) cabinet ministers and the separation of powers doctrine prevents courts from interfering with the exercise of this power. The party who wins the election forms the government and the head of that government can only govern if he or she can make cabinet appointments based on political considerations. If a court interfered with this, it would require unelected judges to overthrow the democratic will of the people, something we really do not want judges to do when it comes to party political decisions like this.
If one does not like the cabinet appointments one could say so loudly and clearly and could vote for another party come the next election. This is called democracy (a concept the Kortbroek juveniles at the ANC Youth League seems to have a great difficulty in understanding).
Cosatu’s application is therefore dead in the water. I suppose its easier to run to the courts than to unite the ANC and start organising for the next election. One cannot pay expensive lawyers to do that hard political work for you, hence the silly move by Cosatu to run to the courts. The move seems to signal a disregard for the voters and hence for democracy and does not reflect well on the Western Cape leadership of Cosatu.
We might not like it that Zille won the election, but she did, so until next time, get over it and stop running to the courts to try and thwart the will of the people.
Sterling analysis!
“We might not like it that Zille won the election, but she did, so until next time, get over it and stop running to the courts to try and thwart the will of the people.”
Very true. I didn’t vote for her, and never will, but the people of the Western Cape spoke.
However, the same applies to those who did not vote for the ANC – myself being one of them – in that as you rightly pointed out over 11 million people DID vote for them and they are therefore representing the people.
off topic – does anyone know where one could download the papers in the latest application by Judge Hlophe? I am dying to read the founding affidavit
John, have been trying to get hold of it myself….
“We might not like it that Zille won the election”
Prof, ek dog jy kies nie kant nie?!
oh and just to lighten the mood a bit:
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-05-12-zapiros-shower-off-zumas-head-for-now
I heard old Tony on the radio before. Really, he’s about as blunt as a spatula himself.
Here’s a little bit of what’s in Hlophe’s papers.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20090512102638694C235794
Lets think about this. We know what it says about a partner, wife, husband who does have sex with a person they know is HIV Positive, without protection, with respect to their duty and role with present partner, children, family et al. That said, was it wise for Helen to speak as she has? No! As for whether it was wise for Julius, well, wisdom doesn’t come close to him.
The gloves have been thrown. God help us all.
Sirjay, I am a bit worried about this line of reasoning. First, if one has promised to be faithful to one partner and then sleeps with other people it is obviously dishonest and deeply troubling. Second, if you have an arrangement that allows for other sexual partners then obviously one needs to discuss and adhere to certain ground rules – also regarding safe sex. But the statement suggests that it is only when one has unprotected sex with someone KNOWN to be HIV positive that there is a problem. Safe sex requires honesty and – if one has more than one sexual partner – safety and this must be predicated on the assumption that anyone one has sex with might be HIV positive. If Zuma slept with someone else who was not known to be HIV positive, had promised his wives he would always use a condom, and then did not, that would be very, very troubling – regardless of whether the person was known to be HIV positive or not. If he always uses condoms with his wives because he has many sexual partners and everyone agrees on this, then there would not be a problem, surely? So, I think the matter is a bit complex and boiling it down to “having sex with an HIV positive women” sends the wrong safe sex message.
At least when the ANC criticised Zille, and she returned the favour re Zuma and his behaviour, the statements were strong but grounded in fact. That the ANCYL feels it is appropriate to make official statements like this one blows my mind – aren’t these people supposed to be future political leaders in parly one day?!
How does it even remotely approach acceptability to state that a politician appointed people because she’s having sex with all of them? Imagine if the DA or FF+ had said that JZ appointed some cabinet ministers because they were his girlfriends and he just wanted to have sex with them! There would be an uproar – but of course, again, it’s fine to utter such comments if you’re the ANC or one of it’s organs – but only in that case.
Then to threaten a duly elected premier with “militant action”??? Really? Is this a veiled threat? Somebody needs to tell that bunch of retarded zoo animals that this is a democracy – you can’t go around threatening violence against elected officials if you don’t like them. If I stood up and threatened militant action against the ANC if JZ won the election, I would immediately be branded an insurgent hell bent on taking SA back to Apartheid, etc etc etc. Why is this acceptable???
I hope that Zille sues the hell out of the ANCYL on this one, and I hope that the ANC publicly rebukes the league. Of course, the second one is fantasy, but in a proper democracy it would happen.
If you want to throw stones fine, but at least make sure there is a factual basis – this is pathetic, and shows the level to which our politics will have sunk in a couple of years if these idiots keep on getting away with this rubbish.
I don’t think it’s wise to sue the ANCYL. It’s blatantly obvious that they are grasping at straws. Give a fool enough rope…
In the 5 pm news on SAfm, it was reported that the ANC was planning “military action” against Helen Zille. This was toned down half an hour or so later to “militant action”, which might mean nothing more than “aggressive action”. But by then I was already thinking about where to start digging a bomb shelter in my minuscule garden.
Well we are used to the ANCYL spouting all sorts of ridiculous nonsense and obscenities. But to hear that from Zille, whom I always thought had a bit more sense??
Pity me, I voted DA!!
Ms. Zille made comments about Mr Zuma’s personal life. Many South Africans would consider such remarks to be in poor taste. I think that it was unwise.
However, she had the right to do so. Under the Constitution, she has the right to freedom of speech. And she could defend even a defamation action on the grounds that the basic facts are not in contention, and her remarks are aimed at being in the public interest.
But, the outrage is most revealing, as it seems that the ANC and its’ affiliates do not accept this right.. Or, they do not accept it when it is used against Mr Zuma.
Or maybe the are just hyper-sensitive about the weaknesses in Mr Zuma’s armour (methinks they doth protest too much…).
In any event, the leve of outrage expressed by the ANC and its’ friends shows an alarming lack of tolerance for ctiticism. I will be very interested to see how Mr Zuma handles all of this. He has shown a conciliatory side that many would not have given credit for. If he tolerates the Youth League’s indefensible outburst (even with a fond, “Oh the irresponsible youth of today”), then his reaching out across the divides looks a touch questionable.
Here’s another thought. Just a theory…
The ANCYL is being deliberately provocative as part of a bigger strategy to try and discredit the DA, in anticipation of their court case concerning the Mpshe decision.
Think about it…
The law might save Zille further blushes, but she hasn’t done herself or the DA any political favours.
I find it unbelievable that Zille thought she could afford such a pale male cabinet. And some people thought Thabo Mbeki was out of touch with reality on the ground!
And the childish response to an entirely predictable attack? It’s all a bridge too far.
Ironically, if COSATU could win their case and force a new, more representative cabinet, they might be doing Zille and the DA’s prospects for the future a favour in the long run.
The ANCYL’s rhetoric sounds just like our old firebrand, Lindelani Maseko’s rantings. Could he be a member? Their speech writer?
Anyway, what has happened to Lindelani?
It’s that kinda of political “debate” (Zille vs ANC Yoof League) that makes me glad I’m not longer subjected to the inanity and indignation of the various parties (the media included).
Perhaps some day, in the distant future, the voting public will rid themselves of these sorts.
Its not likely, under the ‘present’ law that Zille will lose legal action on this matter. I can only imagine with the selection of her cabinet that she is desperate, or rather determined to show that the DA means business and will get service delivery in place, thus benefiting the people and cementing future support. Nothing about Zille gives me the impression she is insincere or simply spinning for votes.
I think however, you misunderstood my last post. For example, I am faithful to my partner. If I or she slept with someone who was KNOWN to be HIV positive, whether or not precautions were taken, it would be game over for the relationship, unforgivable, if just for the children and their need for our survival. However, I wouldn’t feel that if she, or he, the partner, simply got carried away without considering whether the person was infected. In the previous example I would know it was inexcusable, no ifs or buts. If we truly care for others in our life that’s simply the way it is, we don’t risk our charges welfare. For a national leader, what does it say about his sensitivity to responsibility or his ability to lead by putting others before self. Can you imagine public response in developed Democratic countries. Think Obama and Michelle. There, the Government would fall.
I’ve had many conversations tonight, across colour lines I might add, and amazingly, all acknowledged that when the issue came up at Zuma’s rape trial, they didn’t think about his wives and children, only how stupid he was with his own vulnerability.
With respect to the law, Zille’s attack was based on fact. Malema’s comments were based on racist, bigoted, juvenile, undisciplined bullsh*t, Zille’s comments were not slanderous or racist since Zuma admitted his behavior, whereas Malema’s comments are without fact and therefore slanderous. I hope she sues the pants off him. No wonder his elders think poorly of his nonsense.
Low blow Zille. After searching the four corners of the earth Ive found a way to calculate Julius Malemas IQ. Take the amount of times he has said something remotely enriching and devide it by the amount of times he has blurted out stupid bullshit. Its simple math really. few/plenty = not much.
Yours truly
It may be unfortunate that Ms. Zille hasn’t appointed women but if she feels that is who she wants to do the job not only competently, but to the best possible level, then I don’t see why its an issue. The task is service delivery, if Zuma’s sacrificed on that promise for the sake of seeming right then I’m not impressed with him either. I must note that the ex-Minister of Health Dr. Tshabalala-Msimang was useless and a woman, should she have been kept for gender representation purposes? In KZN the MEC for Health was Peggy Nkonyeni – a hopeless woman who truly messed up in her portfolio. Such people (NOT women) should not be put back into their places. If women like this are repeatedly appointed even when they fail to do their tasks then I would much rather have an all-male exec.
This may be a reflection on the DA, that they will make sure the job is done by the BEST people. Such people may be man, women, gay, indian, black, coloured etc. When services are delivered effectively and allow for the development of this country.
I must also express shock at the (Commission for Gender Equality) CGE’s cahirperson for expressing her anti-DA sentiments. One would think that the CGE is an impartial institution that looks simply at issues of gender and the Constitution.
Mike, I don’t think that’s so wise a stratergy. The sad thing is that the term “racist” is thrown around as if someone’s saying “howzit”. Zille seems to have some claim in delict as this exceeds the bounds of fair comment and robust political debate. There is no shred of truth to this and its simply spreading ghastly rumours. Zuma did have sex with a woman whom he thought had HIV; he had multiple wives; he did not use a condom; he had a shower thereafter. Zille’s comments seem to be along the lines of fair comment.
Its interesting to try and discredit the DA when it is Zuma and Malema who insist on launching dekictual action every time they see a court (ie Zuma’s had lots of chances for that). Zuma is, luckily, a bit constrained when it comes to such claims since he’s the president, and the govt can’t join in as an applicant in his delictual matters. BUT then again, its the South African public who believes all the nonsense spewing from Zuma’s mouth.
As long as I get clean water out of my taps, road and school maintenance and proper service delivery generally, I really dont care about the colour or sex of the person who sees that it gets done. If Zille’s pale males can do it, thats fine by me.Wonder what people in the ECape with zero service delivery think…
Precisely, Tebza. It’s about merit and not about gender or race. The irony of this whole catharsis is that the ANCYL and COSATU are coming off as racists themselves. They were happy with a black woman running Eskom into the ground, but a white woman ensuring that people of the Western Cape get clean water, roads and schools (as they did once the DA took over in Cape Town) is less desirable?
I think there are more complicated issues at work in the background. Being and staying top dog – in politics at least – depends on who supports you along the way. We’ve seen the reward for supporting Zuma in the ANC in terms of new ministers.
The DA caucus recently elected Athol Trollip (who was rumoured to be Leon’s favourite to succeed him) as the leader of the party in parliament….Ryan Coetzee, who is close to Zille, was also in the running and the vote gives some indication of what is going in inside the DA itself
So not only does Zille have to watch the ANC as official opposition in the province but she also has to manage various “factions” within her own party – factions that may not be happy that she is the leader….So she appoints people who may be beholden to her in some way so that she can implement DA policy in the province. Politics is such a dirty game maar sy wil mos.
She has to watch so many flanks that she may have not kept her eye on the gender ball. That’s my take on it. Still, they should have predicted the reaction.
I do not think that Zuma is the best leader that the ANC could have presented to us as the electorate but he is our counrty’s president and I I accept him as my presesident.
I am baffled by Zille’s personal attack on Zuma not only because it is irrelevant to the discussion about the racial and gender composition of her cabinet but also beacuse it shows a lack of understanding of African culture, which is a neccessity if she is to make inroads into the black vote. I am referring here to the fact that Africans generally frown on extremely personal attacks, even when the person being crticised has clearly erred. That is not to say that crtiticsm is not allowed or never made. On the contrary, it is usually measured and the tone restrained. Where the person being criticised has apologised such as in this instance where Zuma has said he erred in sleeping with the HIV positive woman concerned, it is considered lack of manners to carry on attacking. One is expected to give the person another chance to rectify their conduct and to move on. Zille should simply get someone who will help her grasp this.
To my mind, Zille would have gained credibility in my eyes if she had simply explained why she chose the people that she chose to her cabinet. That would have given us a sense of their credentials and might have boosted her standing as an action orientated leader. In stead her response shows her to lack good judgement and to be a defensive, angry and bitter person who only operates as if she is still in opposition in the Western Cape province when the contrary is now the case.
I dislike that and think that she is no better than the ANC Youth Leaugue, for whom such an approach is normal behaviour.
A doctor I know in a state hospital in Cape Town told me that many people from the Eastern Cape come to stay with relatives in Cape Town just to be able to go to a Cape Town hospital, due to the state of hospitals in the Eastern Cape.
This leads from what Tebza said: “Wonder what people in the ECape with zero service delivery think…”
As a female with liberal sensibilities who did NOT vote for the DA, I feel compelled to say how incredibly unoffended I am by Zille’s choice of cabinet. For a change, pragmatism and service delivery were not sacrificed at the alter of facile, hypocritical political-correctness. I would say that it bodes well for the Western Cape, I wish I lived there. Big up to Zille.
On a lighter note–see Chris Roper’s take on all of this at
http://www.news24.com/News24/Columnists/Chris_Roper/0,,2-1630-1649_2515626,00.html
From where I sit, I hear that one of her MECs spent the weekend googling about what her job entailed! I just think its plainly political folly for Helen Zille to ignore that her Ministers ought to be drawn from a wide group. She will realise her folly when they start discussing girls in the chamber! I would have loved to hear Zille tell the world that she offered the job of MEC finance to Hlengiwe, who is a qualified person but she turned it down and then I settled for Ian McSmith! She will rue this day!
Sorry, “his” job entailed…
Samaita // May 13, 2009 at 1:32 pm
you do realise she drew someone from the ID too? so she is trying to draw from a wide group
so this also begs the question why didnt the ID put forward a female representitive to join Zilles cabinet?
I think the guy your talking about is Donald Grant go have a look at his CV i think the google thing is taken out of context it was meant as a joke the guy isnt stupid and anyone to believe that he googled to find out what his job title was about , well is extremely gulliable
Helen Zille statement and response to cosatu of an all male grew and the insults who were first perpertrated by COSATU.
I think people should read the full statement then make up your own minds
http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=997557
i see nothing wrong with what she has done sorry
ANC looks like its sending its MK to go knock on Zilles door
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20090513131259625C990157
can someone tell me the difference between ZanuPF and ANC?
smells like déjà vu again
Helen explained (this morning, on radio) that she would have liked to have some women in her cabinet, but it so happened that the top-drawer candidates she had in mind had all put their names down for the DA’s shadow cabinet in Parliament.
It’s noted that some of the commenters on this blog like to stress that they didn’t vote for the DA. Well, I don’t mind saying that I did, and it’s all about the DA’s track record. Why is it that black people from all over the country, and even the rest of Africa, migrate to the Western Cape in their numbers? Is it perhaps that they find life so much better here? The hospitals, the schools, more job opportunities … black students from all over the country say their first choice of university would be UCT. My town (in the Southern Cape) is run by the DA (with a little help from the ID, whose job seems to be to put spanners in the works). The crime is on the low side – the cops seem to always catch the baddies – the quality of the tap water has been found to be the best in the country, and there’s no rubbish lying about in the streets. Housing ‘delivery’ has received top marks. People here (of all colours) are fond of saying they wouldn’t want to live anywhere else. Funnily enough, those Eastern Capeys mostly still vote ANC. Old habits dying hard?
Chris McDaniel
I take your views about Google MEC, but I think you are stretching it when you ask why ID did not send their only MEC in female form. Even if that had happened it would not torpedo the legitimate criticism that Helen deserves. Zille has just made a tough political choice and she must live with the criticism. Being a Zimbabwean (which is never a secret here) I think your comparison of ANC and Zanu PF is laughable. You don’t what you are talking about.
Hi Clara
I live in the Eastern Cape but was born in your hometown. On a visit to my folks recently I immediately noticed how clean the streets are and how efficiently everything works there.
The DA definitely has a better track record when it comes to service delivery and as a female who has become a succesful professional on merit, I would have to say that I am so over this whole gender thing (and BEE for that matter). I therefore do not have a problem if she decided to appoint an all male cabinet.
Having said that I am deeply disappointed in Helen Zille for becoming involved in this mud slinging with the ANC and ANCYL. Why did she now of all times have to make the statement about Zuma? We have long ago moved on. Even Zapiro decided to remove the shower from his cartoons.
Hi Shakira,
I do agree with you on Helen. Had she asked for my advice I would have told her to keep her lip zipped, although in her defence one could say that she was sorely provoked. Now we Western Capeys may look forward to the imminent arrival of the MK veterans, who are just itching to make our little province “ungovernable”. In which case, you may expect me in the Eastern Cape, which just happens to be my second most favourite province. And it’s just up the road!
As usual, the media have provoked a firestorm by taking a statement out of context. The full text of the letter is below. Perhaps this might put things into perspective. I leave it to you to judge whether or not she is wrong in what she said.
Letter to the Editor of the Argus. From Helen Zille
Minister Noluthando Mayende-Sibiya, whose party, the ANC, has just dropped a woman from the Deputy President position, has a nerve to attack me over the gender composition of the DA and ID Western Cape Provincial Cabinet (Cape Argus 11 May 2009).
The ANC, in all its 90 years of existence, has never elected (or deployed)a woman as its leader. The DA has done so within the first ten years of its existence. In fact, until recently, both the DA’s national leader and Parliamentary leader were women.
The ANC’s alliance partners, the SACP and COSATU, are also led by men. And, more significantly, the ANC’s leader, Jacob Zuma, is a self-confessed womanizer with deeply sexist views, who put all his wives at risk by having unprotected sex with an HIV-positive woman. Even after this the ANC women’s league strongly endorsed his Presidential campaign. Their professions of support for women’s rights ring hollow indeed against this background.
While some of the ANC’s senior women achieved their positions on merit, others are well known “quota appointments”. The ANC can therefore pretend to be serious about women’s rights, while actually patronizing women who want to be recognized for their ability.
Jacob Zuma is able to make all his quota and politically expedient appointments because he has extended his Cabinet (including deputy Ministers) to a ludicrous 62 members — at taxpayers’ expense.
In contrast, Provinces are confined by law to 10 MECs drawn from the list elected to the provincial Parliament.
Zuma’s expanded cabinet will cost an extra R19 million in salaries alone, before adding the cost of all the staff and perks to which they are entitled. But the real power remains firmly in the hands of the ‘big men’.
This is blatant hypocrisy. When women are appointed to meet a quota, it is an insult to every woman who has achieved her position through adding value, such as women in the DA.
By paying lip-service to the empowerment of women, the ANC is also promoting the mindset that only women can care about the issues affecting women, or do something about them. The same applies to the ANC’s warped logic regarding race, which says that only black people can care about black people, that only whites can care about whites and so on. This is racist nationalist thinking which goes against the letter and spirit of our constitution. It is also something that every intelligent South African should reject.
In the DA we believe that human beings can care for each other regardless of race or gender. The real test of democratic equality is how well services are delivered to everyone, on an equatible basis, not the colour or gender of the people delivering them.
Helen Zille
Premier of the Western Cape
I believe Helen Zille has achieved her purposes and it is now time for God’s MIghty Men to step up and lead.
Getting personal in any battle is viewed as unecessary, irellevant and unprofessional. Woman are emotional and easily default to this, often causing more harm than good. We are also highly manipulative and when we fail to supress the Jezebel Spirit (controlling, power hungry spirit) like Helen has now done, it becomes ugly.
Let us carry on being the fairer sex and leave the dirty work for the men ladies. We don’t have to lead, they should.
I believe Helen should publicly apologise to Jacob and leave. The DA’s reputation speaks for itself and there was no need for her to attack Jacob on a personal level in order to prove a point, especially considering it is post-election time.
Now is the time to build, not tear down. A time for peace, not war and a time for love, not hate.
Let us pray against the taking up of arms and unite in love and with cords that cannot be broken.
Let us pray that the DA appoints a cabinet that is more representative of the racial equality in our land. Appointing an all white-male cabinet was wrong and can never be blessed. The DA need to practice what they preach.
Much love,
Abigail
Samantha,
This changes the whole complexion of the matter. Shame on the Sowetan.
Chris Mcdaniel // May 13, 2009 at 2:41 pm
MK is renowned for its uselessness, and the MK veterans (in other words, those who do not make a positive contribution to the welfare of the country today)still alive today, except for a few, are useless drunks reveling on their so-called ‘victory over apartheid’ – while it were not they who achieved victory (nor the youths always threatening to make the country ungovernable – Malema, d’ya hear?) but the international voice of reason. No-one needed to fear MK in the heydays (except the cult of bomb-planters like McBride who targeted civilians), so I won’t be too scared if I were Helen Zille. Whilst I see Gwede Mantashe has lambasted the ANCYL for its stupid behaviour, I don’t see him repudiating the MK Veteran’s vomit that helen Zille has a well-developed “hoere libido”, which is why she appointed an all male cabinet as her boyfriends and concubines (sic) – to keep them close to her and accessible. These people crazy!? – or what? I wonder whose gonna have tea with the mad hatter and co.
I think Hellen Zille’s response in a letter to the Argus (quoted by Samantha above) has opened a festering sore in the ANC – which is why their second-hand footsoldiers react so crazilly in their responses. While Helen Zille’s letter, to my mind, was “fair comment” in reponse to the “apparently fair” criticism leveled against her all male cabinet, the ANCYL’s and MK’s responses reveal their lack of … well, whatever (culture?).
@ Abigail,
It is exactly your kind of thinking that has contributed to gender inequality and which persistently allows “God’s Mighty Men” to continue to dominate and subjugate women. It is this kind of thinking that allows organisations like the Taliban to destroy women.
“Let us carry on being the fairer sex and leave the dirty work for the men ladies. We don’t have to lead, they should.”
Are you serious? Why don’t we stop women from voting, or working, as well?
“Woman are emotional and easily default to this, often causing more harm than good. We are also highly manipulative and when we fail to supress the Jezebel Spirit (controlling, power hungry spirit) like Helen has now done, it becomes ugly.”
Helen Zille’s comments were within the context of a point she was making. Furthermore, everything she said was factual and on public record.
The response by “God’s Mighty Men” has been to call her a “whore” and threaten her with military action. And you have the gall to infer that this is her fault for not suppressing her “Jezebel spirit”!!
Your hypocrisy is laughable. You call on the DA to present us with a more racially acceptable cabinet and yet you believe in the subjugation of women. Equality should be about all people, not just the racial equality of men.
@ Dumisani Mhkize
It’s quite terrifying how manipulated we are by the media, isn’t it?
The Sowetan, with an obvious agenda, sparked this incident.
Die Burger have gone one step further by publishing Floyd Shivambu’s telephone number, which resulted in him being targeted with abusive and rascist telephone calls and smses.
While I am all for freedom of the media, something has to be done in light of the irresponsible behaviour that they have demonstrated.
Accusing a woman of chauvinism?
Oh – so it’s the media blowing this out of proportion now. Even read in context, it remains the only personal bite in an otherwise excellent argument.
Personal attacks are not only poor form (which is what the fuss is about), but in this instance it was also bad strategy.
If Helen had left out this section:
~And, more significantly, the ANC’s leader, Jacob Zuma, is a self-confessed womanizer with deeply sexist views, who put all his wives at risk by having unprotected sex with an HIV-positive woman. Even after this the ANC women’s league strongly endorsed his Presidential campaign. Their professions of support for women’s rights ring hollow indeed against this background.~
Would it have weakened her argument?
I suggest her statement would have been far stronger without it. Its inclusion has provided the opportunity for her opponents to draw attention away from her other excellent points.
It begs the question why she felt the need to even raise such a personal issue when she already had so much good ammunition, especially so shortly after a pretty heated election.
@ Dave A,
I never said that the media were blowing it out of proportion. What I said was that the statement had been taken out of context which made it appear to be a far more damning attack than when read in context. I do not agree with HZ bringing in the personal attack on JZ, but I do feel that when read in isolation, as it was in the Sowetan, it it is given a far more sinister and spiteful sense.
It certainly did not deserve the disgusting and threatening response it received.
Friend // May 14, 2009 at 11:02 am
Yes – a “chauvinist b..ch”, I suppose, would pass linguists’ scrutiny? LOL
Dave A et Samantha – I agree with your last comments – Hellen Zille could’ve left that sting out, and it wouldn’t have made her argument any weaker, but when read in context, it does appear that was not intended in a sinister and spiteful sense. One should remember, politics is a dirty game, with very little rules, esp when freedom of expression/speech and the public’s right to be informed come into play. So, people like JZ, when they behave so foolishly and imorally, make themselves fair game for this kind of comment when your party structures criticise the opposition’s decision not to appoint as many women as did JZ. I still think, although she might’ve left it out altogeher, her comment in this regard amounted to fair comment. There is one rule that has to be observed, however, and that is that blatant untruths or facts that cannot readily be proven should not be allowed as part of the armory of political responses. Now, JZ being a self-confessed womanizer, who has endangered his wives by having unprotected sex with a person he knew to be HIV positive, and who has deeply sexist views (she was provoking sex implied in his testimony at the rape trial) – I think there is definitely a kernell of truth in that – and, if that is so, then it can be used if he (or his party) accuses others of gender issues.
Is Zuma so fragile that they need soldiers on the streets when someone says something bad about him? That the ANCYL even defies their ANC reprimand?
Zille has had numerous personal attacks lately in which she was called numerous things (such as racist and a witch) and been made fun of by senior ANC officials and alliance leaders (the Western Cape in general as well).
She says one little thing about Zuma (and not for the first time as far as I can remember) and now all hell wants to break loose.
Maybe she could have left out that paragraph, but it does relate to the point she was making and was not gratuitous in itself. The reactions have been over the top and I think the sowetan should take much of the blame.
PS: Does anyone know where to find the Argus article in which Minister Noluthando Mayende-Sibiya “attacked” Zille? This was the start of the whole saga and my searches have been fruitless, which says something about the quality of journalism when none of the articles I’ve read have any information on it.
Also ironic is the ANCYL now talking about respect for the office of the president, of which they had very little during Mbeki’s last months.
Not too mention Malema being taken to the equality court over his statements regarding Zuma’s rape accuser.
Dear Men
Thank you so much for standing up here.
Zuma did react in a rather ‘funky’ manner to this, but someone had to tow this situation in line.
Zuma has been through the Justice system and has been acquitted. Whether we like it or not, he has been appointed King of the Country and we need to rather pray for him, instead of breaking him down.
He is trying to be a peacemaker, but people keep raining on his parade. The poor oke man.
Zille needs to submit and apologise urgently. That is that.
Abigail
For those of you who haven’t read it, MKMVA chair Kebbey Maphatsoe said during a Luthuli House briefing that the real reason for Zille appointing an all-male cabinet was so that its members were “kept close enough to satisfy her well-evolved wild whore libido”.
“They are also kept in her power corridors isolated from other women, so as to satisfy her and her alone, hence the exclusion of other women as they pose undesired sexual competition to her undying lust for sex with her male groupies.
“She is a fascist of the worst kind, who after evidently sleeping with more than her fair share of white males in her preferred lifestyle of serial monogamy now turns around and demonises those who are honest to their cultural preferences.”
This tells me (1) that, taken together with the ANCYL’s comments, a disproportionate number of South African men use 99% (if not more) of their brains to fantasise about sex, and that said men see a woman as nothing more than a life support system for a vagina; and (2) that having unprotected sex with HIV-positive women is, for them, a “cultural thing”.
When will the children start listening to what the grown-ups say?
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2516598,00.html
I’m a political studies student and if this is the kind of discourse that we as scholars must draw on, then I must say there will be senseless and shallow dicussion, Our politicians are a disapointment
I was wtching morning live this morning and COSATU argues that Helen has appointed a predominantly white male EXCO to keep the embers of Apartheid alive. This shows a lack of understanding of the DA and Helen Zille. They further argue thet Helen’s claim that her appointees are the best people for the job are a lie to the people. They then say that certain people don’t have the requisite experience and knowledge. I wonder where COSATU was when the KZN MEC for health did a disasterous job of handling the public health system of this province. We have alarming Hiv/AIDS infections and a steadily increasing infant mortality rate. The best part is that she was a teacher by profession… My mother, also a teacher. said that she’d be ashamed to be in charge of something she knows nothing about, if only Peggy Nkonyeni had felt the same. COSATU, cannot therefore claim to be fighting for the rights of the masses, the people or the workers, when they fail to highlight problems everywhere. This entire thing is simply a red herring and we are, possibly, entertaining the crew for far too long.
@ nkululeko,
You are so right. There are so many pots and kettles in this thing, it’s worse than the Boston Tea Party!!
The gender issue attack by the ANCYL is laughable considering their lack of representation, Julius’ comments re rape victims and their “enjoyment” and the sexual insults they hurl with gay abandon.
I’ve never heard a single woman speak on behalf of COSATU or the YCL etc. etc.
If you are in the mood for a good laugh, you’ve got to listent to this:
http://www.zoopy.com/video/w55/sleeping-around-is-sleeping-around
Anonymouse // May 14, 2009 at 9:03 am
The reason why im bring up the MK is the ANC with all its talk about “being friends with the opposition is just a bunch of hog wash.
The ANC needs an enemy so why not a white girl and why not a party who they beleive is the “NEO APARTHEID” movement.
Just like ZANU PF in ZIM using its war vets and there Militant youth to physicaly attack white people and blame the”british”. The ANC is using the same approach but not as brutual in violence but extremely psychotic with words and blame “neo- apartheid”
Helen Zille did not start this, im afraid she is a victim, because she has the right credentials to demeanise, shes white ,shes afrikaans and she is a female and shes now gaining power…
1st of May.
workers day Malema used the platform to instead of celebrating workers day but to attack Zille and started calling her a racist white girl
3rd of May
Mdladlana calls Zille a witch
Cosatu in the Western Cape threatened to embark on a protected strike over her predominantly white provincial executive.
and so on and so on until Zille said the word sexist and Aids then more crap being flung from the ANCYL, and then the MK.
The fact the ANC spokewoman said they are distancing themselfs is also B.S.
The MK made there threats from the ANC HQ and Malema isnt being called to put a gag on it from the ANC either, if anything the anc is acting in stealth mode through ANCYL to paint this picture of a white girl who will bring back apartheid.
If anything Zille the DA and the western Cape is under attack by the ANC, The ANC is not use to losing power and this is what is happening.
i mean to lose robben island a symbol of freedom for south africa to a white girl….damn thats a kick in the nuts for the ANC.
and to lose a province which gave birth to a country to a white girl “the re colonisation” damn thats a kick in the nuts for the ANC.
so toppling a parties symbol and a view of re colonisation on the cape by white people again it is no wonder why the ANCYL is going full out on racial and gender attacks on a woman, politics is diffently not a gentlemans sport.
and if Helen Zille can hold her ground and prove all the critics wrong well then thats just respect. and im afriad the ANC’s propaganda is going to backfire.
But this is healthy for the country the DA needs the ANC and the ANC needs the DA.
Mareanne Thamm has expressed very valuable points which will hopefully guide future political critical cricisism. We cannot have seperate development for Western Cape. South Africa is a unitary and indivisible secular state with superfluous neo-federalistic elements. She will not survive if she embarks on a course to defy the developmental path taken by the entire country.
Zille is perfectly entitled to choose her cabinet but she has reversed the general struggles of women to roll back the frontiers of societal patriarchal hegemony. She undermines the expertise and potential of female members of the DA.
Coloureds make up 51% of the provincial population yet the cabinet is totally male and almost lilly white. This is a collosal indicment on her political party. She will live to regret this.
I personally do not subscribe to her sterile and negative derogatory ballistics when her task was to persuasively justify her decision. She has subliminal disregard of the social and political status of women.
Ishmael Malale // May 18, 2009 at 12:25 pm
“I personally do not subscribe to her sterile and negative derogatory ballistics when her task was to persuasively justify her decision”
I dnt see those 51% colored people in the WP complaining and calling her a racist now do you? or threatening to go on strike?
“totally male and almost lilly white”
yes and the ANC is charcol black??
“She will not survive if she embarks on a course to defy the developmental path taken by the entire country. ”
yes and the ANC wont survive if they embark on a course of racism to discredit another party, that defys the developmental path taken by the entire country.
focus!
Here Ismael
Lets look at Zille’s party
“Let’s first start with the women. There are five women in the 22-person caucus of the DA in the province. One of them is the premier, one of them is the chief whip, and three are committee chairs. All of those women decided on their own that they would prefer a placing in the provincial parliament. Most other senior women in the DA chose to go into the national parliament. We do not do deployment in the DA. We allow people choice.”
so wow it would appear that there is a high number of of female from DA which are representing in parliament.
and incase you missed it the ID and DA are in bed together and actually run the government in the WP jointly that = to 2 party leaders who are …..????? yes female and the ANC accuses them of sexism? if anything you can accuse the party of lesbianism
Chris Mcdaniel // May 18, 2009 at 1:37 pm
So you claim now the Executive was not the best people for the job based solely on merit, but was actually all she could come up with because everyone else was turning down the positions?
I wish you and Zille would make up your mind.
For the record, I think her appointments are insulting (wasn’t the ID representative the male member of the Provincial Legislature???) and her letter riddled with nonsense. The ANC’s las two Deputy Presidents were women, yet Zille thinks that her being the AA candidate of an opposition party that had 12% of the national vote at the time means that the DA are more advanced? Give me a break!
And for whoever was complaining about Zuma’s response Zuma didn’t make any response.
Mpho // May 18, 2009 at 2:13 pm
nice try but pull ur head out….firstly im not DA but i am going to defend her because of the racist attacks displayed by the ANC its actually disgusting.
DID she not say given the resources that she had to choice from she choose the best from what she had given the fact that all the females wanted to be in parliment??? honestly do you guys read upside down?
and secondly whats wrong with white males? I find that highly racist and highly sexist that white males arnt just as competant.
You and your ANC are being racist thats the bottom line.
if you find her appointments insulting i find the ANC insulting for not employing more white people in there cabinet.
The fact is a white woman is going to show the ANC how to govern and care for the poor……that im afraid is what scares the ANC cos if you cant look after your own people who will?? yip a white woman and a colored woman
The people who are benefitting from the corruption is clearly anticipating how an effective government will
mean a loss in income?
Man, you people can be interesting… i had honestly hoped that this had been concluded but the ANC bone in some of you can’t resist blowing hot air…
If all the people who she would have considered are not available then these are the best candidates, why must anyone qualify their sentence.
The ANC has not had a female LEADER (President of the party) in its entire existence. It was not a question or an opinion, its a fact. It also related ONLY to the President of the ANC and not other top posts. I doubt that Helen got her position as an AA candidate, I don’t know if the same can be said of some of the ANC ineffectual female leaders. Stop complaining about something which is irrelevent. Let the MECs lead and if, and when, they falter you can launch substantive and meaningful criticism. Or would you prefer to chose the WC’s MECs for the Premier and then ridicule her because they’re as useless as the rest of the country?
On the matter of one state. We have both federal and unitary elements. Its best for a country so diverse as this to have both e unified approach to problems and have the finer details worked out for each province. This has been the case for ages. certain provinces have certain Health policies, KZN started the “Masifundisane” project before the national equivalent. What is important is that the country sets goals and works towards them. If provinces employ different stratergies to do this then it stands to reason that the nation would do well to borrow from the provincial stratergy. Let the Lady govern.
That’s what I’m talking about, Nkululeko, that’s what I’m talking about.
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