Constitutional Hill

Marikana Commission: more questions than answers

It has been almost a year since President Jacob Zuma appointed a Commission of Inquiry to look into the events surrounding the massacre of 34 miners at Marikana in August last year and the killing of 10 people in the days leading up to the massacre. But some of the lawyers, representing the arrested and injured miners, have withdrawn from the proceedings due to a lack of funds. Lawyers for AMCU and the families of the miners killed withdrew in solidarity. Should these lawyers be funded by the state and would their absence have negative consequences for the Commission?

The South African Bill of Rights does not provide anyone with a right to legal representation in all cases where their rights or interests are affected. Section 35(3)(g) of the Bill of Rights does state that every accused person has a right to a fair trial which includes the right:

to have a legal practitioner assigned to the accused person by the state and at state expense, if substantial injustice would otherwise result, and to be informed of this right promptly.

However, the Marikana Commission is not a criminal court, and although it will make findings of fact as well as recommendations of how to avoid a similar disaster in future, these are not legally binding on the president (whom it was appointed to advise), nor on the Prosecuting Authority. Those who have withdrawn from the proceedings are therefore not accused persons entitled to legal representations in terms of this section of the Bill of Rights.

Of course, section 33 of the Constitution guarantees for everyone a right to administrative action which is lawful, reasonable and procedurally fair (a right that is given effect to in the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act), while section 34 states that everyone “has the right to have any dispute that can be resolved by the application of law decided in a fair public hearing before a court or, where appropriate, another independent and impartial tribunal or forum”.

With substantial interpretative footwork, I suspect one could possibly make out an (almost) plausible case that the Commission cannot be said to engage in a constitutionally valid fair process where the legal representation of the most vulnerable and marginalised individuals affected by its work are not funded by the state. The fact that the Commission chose to conduct its hearings in a semi-judicial manner – with expensive lawyers taking up days and even weeks to cross-examine witnesses – might help to bolster the argument.

Given the fact that the findings of the Commission of Inquiry might have drastic consequences for those who were directly or indirectly involved in the massacre and that the police and the mine owners are generously funded by the state and by shareholders respectively, it is also clearly unfair, even unjust, that some affected parties have their interests vigorously protected by well-paid lawyers while others may now not have that protection.

But I would be surprised if a court finds that these provisions, read separately or in conjunction with one another, guarantees for anyone whose interests are potentially affected by the work of a Commission of Inquiry, the right to state-funded legal representation. The absence of a clear constitutional right in this regard, and the fact that procedural fairness is not generally regarded in South Africa as requiring state funded legal representation, would make it difficult to convince a court of the constitutional (as opposed to the moral) correctness of such an argument.

This does not mean that it is not imperative for the success of the Commission that the state provide reasonable funding to pay for the legal representation of those parties who cannot afford to pay for it. This obligation does not fall on the Legal Aid Board, but on the state, represented by the president – who set up the Commission in the first place and must ensure the success of the Commission in order to prevent a monumental wastage of money.

If some role players – including the police whose members committed the massacre – are generously funded by the state, but others – including the miners, the union who represented the miners at the time of the incident and the families of those killed during the massacre – are not similarly funded, the credibility of the process as well as the outcome will be called into question.

It is inconceivable that the miners and the families of the deceased will accept any adverse findings made by the Commission against the miners in such circumstances. Instead, they will argue – with some force and with some justification – that their interests were not protected by lawyers and that the adverse findings thus stem from a completely unfair and discredited quasi-legal process.

I would argue that such a process would be akin to a rugby match in which one side had the money to pay for the best players, the best coaching staff and the best training equipment, while the members of the other side had no training, no money to buy new players and no training equipment and, to boot, were required to play the game with their hands tied behind their backs. (The same kind of argument can be used in defence of constitutionally valid redress measures.)

Of course, this problem reminds us of the much larger problem relating to access to justice in South Africa. If you happen to be the President or the Police Commissioner or some other state functionary fighting corruption charges against you, your legal fees will be liberally funded by the state. If you happen to be a gangster, tenderpreneurs or CEO of a large company (and there is often not much difference between these categories of people – as Brett Kebble so neatly illustrated) you will also be able to afford to pay for the best legal representation available.

But if you happen to be an ordinary person who are unfortunate enough to have gotten entangled in a legal dispute, or who wish to pursue justice through legal means, you will almost never have access to state funded legal representation and will also find it hard to fund your own legal fees. Who of us have R45 000 a day to spend on a top-notch advocate appearing on our behalf in court?

This is all rather trite. A much more difficult question to answer is what should be done to provide more people with the real possibility of gaining access to justice through the formal legal processes. I am not sure the state can afford to provide every potential litigant or accused in a criminal case with funds to pay for a good lawyer. And besides, how would the state decide whose cases are worthy of funding and whose cases are frivolous?

Perhaps all attorneys and advocates can be required to do a certain percentage of work for indigent or worthy clients at a radically reduced rate. (Why some of the Marikana lawyers are insisting on charging their full fee, when their clients clearly cannot afford this and the interest of justice seems to require them to take at least a moderate cut in pay, is beyond me.)

But even the most public spirited attorney or advocate has expenses to pay and financial commitments to meet, and cannot always work for free or at a reduced rate. In any case, even at reduced rates most South Africans would not be able to afford the services of an attorney or advocate.

I really do not have the answers.

NS: This post was slightly amended to indicate that it was only the lawyers representing the arrested and injured miners who withdrew due to lack of funding. Lawyers for AMCU and the families of the miners killed withdrew in solidarity.

  • Deloris Dolittle

    The police’s presence at the Commission is funded by the State because it is a State entity. Why not require AMCU to contribute to the funding of the representation for the union and the affected union members. Unions can simply not be allowed to continue to hold out te begging bowl without taking some responsibility for their actions during strikes (protected or unprotected). Perhaps then we will start seeing some more responsible behavoiur from them during wage negotiations and a little less destruction.

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma knows what he is doing! (

    “If you happen to be a gangster, tenderpreneurs or CEO of a large company (and there is often not much difference between these categories of people – as Brett Kebble so neatly illustrated) you will also be able to afford to pay for the best legal representation available.”

    Or if you happen to be President you can get some guys to threaten to kill for you (or die for you), you can hide some tapes, you can refuse to appoint a NDPP, you can fire (aka redeploy) some good guys, you can appoint some shady guy as NDPP, you can refuse to appoint a superb DCJ as CJ, you can get your underlings to describe the judiciary as counter-revolutionary …

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma knows what he is doing! (

    “Flippie Engelbrecht is epileptic, a double amputee, blind and helpless. But not for long.

    An army of top lawyers and a retired judge have vowed to be Engelbrecht’s hands and eyes as he takes on the men who allegedly caused his disabilities.

    Johannes Marthinus and Wilhelm Treurnicht appeared in court yesterday and their case was remanded to August 28.

    The case was struck off the court roll in 2008 because of lack of evidence and witnesses.

    It was re-instated after the NGO Freedom Trust approached the provincial police management.

    One of Cape Town’s top legal minds, William Booth, has taken up his case.

    Justice Alliance, an NGO headed by retired British judge John Smyth , wants to help Engelbrecht as well. The law firm Smith Tabata Buchanan Boyes has been appointed to help Engelbrecht pursue a civil case against the farmer.”

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Deloris Dolittle says:
    August 1, 2013 at 8:28 am

    None of the cops are ‘accused’ yet – why – the NPA would have to explain. The state has a whole state advocates’ office who could represent the cops making private counsel superflous. So, why exactly the cops need a whole barrage of legal representation is beyond me.

    Anyway, there is the equal protections clause.

    I’m disappointed Pierrot did not even mention Greg Marinovich’s excellent article which explained at length that Mpofu’s funding gets turned on again as soon as the first lot is accounted for. By now the words ‘struggle accounting’ spring to mind.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Jason Bosch

    That it’s even a problem that one side can’t afford the best lawyer while the other can shows that the legal process is not about justice. If it were about justice then the aim would be to uncover the truth about what happened in an incident and then to objectively adjudicate the matter according to the law. In such a scenario, a poor person who is innocent would rejoice that the other side has a good lawyer because they would help show that their innocence. If a poor person who is innocent despairs in such a situation, it is because there is no justice in the law, just that the person who argues the best wins.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    Well said Jason.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Zoo Keeper

    I understood the point of the Marikana Commission was to find out what happened and make recommendations to the President on how to avoid it in future.

    Now its been turned into a “trial”.

    The miners and their widows can represent themselves. They just have stand up and start talking and asking questions.

    Yes, it will mean a bit of chaos. But let the chaos erupt and the funding will arrive just to restore order!!

    The Commission has been dragged out for nearly a year.

    The question should be – why? Why is it taking this long? Has the Commission lost sight of its mandate?

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele
  • Dmwangi

    JM has a point here: why is the state building two new unis? It must certainly be cheaper to invest in increasing the capacity of existing institutions.

    “Johannesburg – The planned initial enrolment of 290 students at two new universities was ridiculous, Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) leader Julius Malema said on Thursday.

    “It is no secret that the worsening situation of unemployment is directly linked to the question of higher education, which has been limited and denied to the black child for centuries,” he said in Johannesburg.

    Malema was briefing reporters on the outcomes of the EFF’s recent national assembly. He said the building of more universities in South Africa, with a focus on mass education, training, and research, was the only solution.

    The target of having 20 000 students in 10 years reflected a lack of commitment to transform the country’s unjust past.

    “The way the government has started with these universities is the same way the apartheid government started the University of Fort Hare, confirming attitudes when it comes to education of the black child,” Malema said.

    President Jacob Zuma announced last week that two new universities – in Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape – would begin operating next year. They would initially take fewer than 200 students each, Zuma said. “

  • Zoo Keeper


    I think it depends on what those universities become.

    If the intention is simply to build something called a “university” but underfund it and starve it of expertise then JM is right.

    But if it is to expand higher learning then he is wrong.

    There is a limit to the capacity of any institution before they become too remote from students. To compare Fort Hare’s creation with the new universities is a bit disingenuous to me.

    To my mind the previous amalgamation of universities and Technikons was a backward step. They each needed to be strengthened, not reduced.

    However, any institution under the control of the SACP does deserve unstinting scrutiny!

  • HP

    Obviously the commission wants to find the truth why Marikana happened,
    who is to blame and may be forced to pay for the damages done, how such incident may be avoided in the future and not just, as the composer of the above article writes: “to look into the events surrounding the massacre of 34 miners at Marikana in August last year and the killing of 10 people in the days leading up to the massacre.”

    Below is my take on this issue:

    The reason for the toxic relationship between the competing unions NUM and AMCU at Marikana boils down to the use of forged definitions of the previous LRA’s dragged as valid ones into the 1995 LRA .

    These forged provisions (statutes) as introduced into the new Act obliged the draft 1995 LRA Bill’s task team, which was assisted by senior advocates Cheadle, Gauntlett, Brassey and Wallis – who themselves were actively involved in the engineering and promotion of these irregularities – to design and adopt, amongst other, new provisions concerning the registration of trade unions (and employers’ organisations) by the Registrar in Pretoria.

    Under the pretext to make registration of these organisations under the new Act easier or less onerous the task team and its assisting kinder-garden of “expert advocates” devised a registration procedure, the end result of which was a registration certificate devoid of any precise information as to the individual “interests”, namely the “trades or occupations” of their members in the case of trade unions and the “ industries” (activities) of their members in the case of employers’ organisations.

    Now, it is submitted that the purpose of such “empty” and incomplete new registration procedure was not only to make registration easier but to hide from public view the fact that the interests contained previously in the registration certificates of employers’ organisations (which could be parties to an industrial council) were identical to the newly invented “sector” (industry) in respect of which industrial councils had illegally been registered under the previous Acts.

    Anybody would have been able to identify such fraud simply by comparing the identical information of the two different types of certificates, contravening the established principles of freedom of association contained in the LRA’s.

    With regard to trade unions this incomplete registration (only a name and address – no precise interests) gave rise to the extreme competition for the right to be a recognised representative unions (under the new Act) between AMCU and NUM.

    Under the previous provisions AMCU would have been registered for instance in respect of “rock-drillers “ and maybe another trade or occupation – provided that the union had been found by the Registrar to be sufficiently representative in the area of its stated interests.

    Under the same constraints, NUM on the other hand would have been registered in respect of several other trades or occupations – again provided that it is sufficiently representative of those interests in the area.
    Thus, it is obvious that there can only be one registered trade union which may represent for instance “rock drillers” in the specific area of Marikana.

    With these correct registration certificates in place each union could not have interfered with each other and each would have had to negotiate with Lonmin separately and come to maybe different terms – most probably justified, seen in light of the more difficult work done by rock-drillers compared to other occupations now represented by NUM.

    In the result I submit again (done already several times in this forum and others) that the irregularities committed by senior officials in the Department of Labour in cohorts with senior members of the legal fraternity, academics at UCT and big business (SEIFSA) leads to the root of the tragedy of Marikana. (Names, evidence and proof for all statements are at hand).

    Some 44 persons had to die before the authorities woke up and tried to find the truth.

    It should be said that in this instance the Minister of Labour is most probably not involved but her senior officials in collective bargaining are, as was already hinted at by our previous Labour Minister, Tito Mboweni, in Business Day in 2005 when he complained about the behaviour of the bureaucrats in the Department of Labour.

    Finally, I hope that judge Farlam will become aware of these discrepancies and will investigate accordingly.


  • Ozoneblue

    August 1, 2013 at 17:51 pm

    “JM has a point here: why is the state building two new unis? It must certainly be cheaper to invest in increasing the capacity of existing institutions.”

    In fact it is cheaper and easier just to take over these institutions developed through billions of Afrikaner tax money over decades of meticulous education development and “transform” them by replacing Whites with Blacks. Simple displacement policy – displacing the White middle class with a Black one and fuck the 52 million other poor Africans. It is the African way grabbing the low hanging fruits.

  • Dmwangi


    Point well taken.


    Is there anything — anything at all– that you don’t view through racialised lenses? Your Manichean, black/white racial weltanschauung is a sickness and must be a terrible burden.

  • Ozoneblue

    August 1, 2013 at 20:28 pm

    “Is there anything — anything at all– that you don’t view through racialised lenses? Your Manichean, black/white racial weltanschauung is a sickness and must be a terrible burden.”

    I wasn’t always like this. But being a “white male”, in the “second phase”, I’m now officially the enemy of the “revolution”. There is a very old African saying – only very dumb chickens celebrate Ukuthwasa.

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (

    August 1, 2013 at 20:43 pm


    “I’m now officially the enemy of the “revolution”. ”

    You’re over rating your importance.

    You’re just a regular nuisance/annoyance/irritant!

  • Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (
    August 1, 2013 at 21:01 pm

    And you are the very dumb chicken.

  • Ozoneblue

    That is why the clever whites and Indians left long, long time ago – not because they are “racist” but because they are not so dumb chickens.

    “When an initiate is introduced to ancestors

    The main isangoma burn more incest to introduce the new initiate to the both ancestors (initiate and the trainer) to avoid clashing of the ancestors, then they bath the initiate with traditional medicines for cleansing. The next day, four live chickens are brought in different colours, each colour symbolises a certain thing. These chickens are for four earthenwear pots with different traditional medicines that the initiate is going to use during the process of training. Also a red cloth is bought to be used by the initiate as her clothes which is a symbol of initiation and four candles. These pots are placed in a sacred place within the main house. The trainer after introducing the initiate, the chicken is made to drink from a pot and it is placed on the head of a trainer and removed after a while, this is done to all the chickens. All the chickens are then slaughtered and they remove the bile open it and put it in each pot and the initiate have to swallow the skins of the bile. After this process the initiate takes a bath with a certain traditional medicine and smear red soil all over the body and wear the red clothes. The feathers of the four chickens are sown together with red, blue and white beads to make a headgear for the initiate.”

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (

    August 1, 2013 at 21:10 pm


    “The main isangoma burn more incest

    Well done to the isangoma!

  • Ozoneblue


    “Well done to the isangoma!”

    We can look forward to another 100 years of Robert Mugabe. But now Bobs sponsoring the likes of Julius Malema and Andile Mngxitama (ironically with White and Indian taxmonies coming from South Africa) and I assume other monies from the multiracial and white liberal sponsored UN/World Aid food programs that is meant to keep Zimbabweans from dying of hunger.

    But they vote for him hey. Good old African democrazy working just fine.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Is it just me or does Pierrot look like a younger Richard Nixon on that Twitter pic?

  • Zoo Keeper


    Why don’t you actually go to the Farlam Commission and present the argument?

    Surely they would be quite happy to hear about the framework of the legislation which caused unnecessary union strife as you state?

    Go on, give Farlam a call and see if he’ll allow you to present as an amicus.

    He won’t become aware of anything that is not put in front of him – that’s how things roll.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “Is it just me or does Pierrot look like a younger Richard Nixon on that Twitter pic?”

    No, its just you.

    And don’t you start about where President Nixon was born now!


  • Jeffman

    I dont see why the advocates cannot act pro amico. After all the loss of support claims by the beneficiaries are going to run into the hundreds of millions which the SAPS (State ) will have to fork out in due course. Do the math, one rock driller earning say, R8000 pm, of which say R5000 is given to his dependents .Average age, say 30, to retirement at age 60.R60k per year times 30 years=R1.8 million per miner times 44 miners =R79.2 million which the State will have to fork out….

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (

    August 1, 2013 at 21:51 pm


    “(ironically with White and Indian taxmonies coming from South Africa)”


    Everyone who lives in this country pays tax one way or the other!

  • Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (
    August 2, 2013 at 11:30 am

    “Everyone who lives in this country pays tax one way or the other!”

    Correct. I never implied otherwise.

    But how many of us are paying tax monies to sponsor the destruction of our own basic rights and to sponsor foreign governments who want to rob us of our citizenship through “indigenization”?

    DCS spends over R2.4m defending race quotas – Solidarity

  • Ozoneblue

    “HARARE — South Africa has approved $100m (R900m) in budgetary support to its cash-strapped neighbour Zimbabwe to help plug a gap in its finances ahead of national elections that are now expected to take place in the second half of the year, Zimbabwean Finance Minister Tendai Biti said on Monday.”

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (

    August 2, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Those are the consequences of apartheid.

    Our constitution was written in a way to address that awful legacy.

    Some mistakes will certainly be made, the brush will sweep too wide – that’s why we have the institutions to guard against it.

  • Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (
    August 2, 2013 at 11:44 am

    “Our constitution was written in a way to address that awful legacy.”

    Bullshit. It is not about addressing any legacy any more. It is about using racist policies to maintain political control. Where is this more clear than the continued application of racist employment policies in working/middle class sectors and in government that have already been “transformed’.

    SA now obliged to do away with AA in public service – Solidarity

    “@ aa
    You need the struggle like Africans waged against apartheid to have AA measures removed from statute books of South Africa. Knowing your people lacks guts to do what we did against apartheid government the AA are here to stay as long as African people are responsible for installing the government of the day, no government will introduce policies that is not appealing to its electorate and hope to win the election. The ANC is not going to be elected by African people to govern and be ruled as how to govern by white people at the same time.
    zulu carpet on July 01 2013, 09:48”

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Maggs, you talk such shit. How is a government dragging its own country through its ass bailing out a neighbouring government which has already dragged its country through its ass ‘the consequences of Apartheid’?

    To me it screams ‘dumb cunts who can’t learn from watching each other’s mistakes’!

    What ‘awful legacy’ are you babbling about?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Jeffman

    “I dont see why the advocates cannot act pro amico”

    Jeffman is right. Its seems fair that advocates give up their practices for a year for this cause. Why should the financial burden be spread across the entire tax base? After all, high-income professionals like surgeons and CA’s often work for free for months at a time for deserving clients! (So I have heard, anyway.)

  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Hey Brett,

    I’m sure your GRANNY knows what you are babbling about.

  • HP

    Zoo Keeper

    Thanks for your comment.

  • Dmwangi


    Am inclined to think the history of apartheid can account for quite a lot of contemporary phenomena. But surely it cannot explain why Maggs is the way he is. Certain contingent events are just unexplainable by rational cause-effect analysis.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ alanjohn

    “the fucken criminal pigs at saps kzn crime intelligence all corrupt coolie pigs.”

    Thanks for you comments. May I cross-post your informative insights on my “satellite” website? With respect, the so-called “crime intelligence” are not exclusively “coolie pigs.” Some are BLACKISTS pigs!

    Thanks a lot.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Dmwangi says:
    August 2, 2013 at 20:16 pm

    I think Maggs was raised by 7 older sisters. Who all thought he was very cute. And all those aunts telling him Congress stories…..

    Hey, Mwangi – you started to offer an opinion here:

    Dmwangi says:
    August 1, 2013 at 17:51 pm

    I would rather read your ideas on how to turn education around than Maggs/Dworky’s crap any day!

  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    August 2, 2013 at 20:16 pm

    Hey Dm,

    “Certain contingent events are just unexplainable by rational cause-effect analysis.”

    Then your typical explanation would suffice!

  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
    August 2, 2013 at 20:38 pm

    Hey Brett,

    “I would rather read your ideas on how to turn education around”

    That’s a challenging one.

    But I have an idea on how you can turn Dmwangi around!

  • sirjay

    Hi Prof: just so you know I still follow your blog faithfully. Its just that I’ve been back in Canada for a time, west coast, the mountains, the islands and magical amazing Vancouver as well. Its been difficult to relate to SAfrican challenges while here, culture shock, something I experience in both directions.

    Gay pride on Sunday here, high summer, many thousands expected, looking so forward to it, much of the family attending it with me. Should be great, weather promising.

    Its the future here, the evolutionary growth some of us in Africa dream of, especially pertaining to the social, the technological wizardry, the multi racial embracement, the acceptance of who we, each of us, are, the mutual acknowledgement of skills and experience that so many have to offer under our brilliant and potent Canadian rule of law, as in a true Democracy still with challenges. However, its orderly and tidy, somewhat controlled but wisely so, and it works.

    I told one of my sons: you”re living the future present here. Tolerance, acceptance, lack of hatred and divisiveness amongst the cultures, most of whom here appear to be living in harmony with each other and life, with colour, race, orientation and creed. Such a relief for my aching adopted SAfrican soul.

    I’ll return, not yet finished with hunting in the glorious Cdn wilds or absorbing the rewarding modern city life of Vancouver, or the exquisite life style of the southern Gulf Islands. Life is a hunt after all.

    Keep up the good fight. Sustinebant Bonum certamen. I applaud your courage.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Howzit, Sirjay!

    I’ve just fetched myself a piece of biltong to enjoy in your honour. What you’re missing? Mugabe has stolen another election and ZANU -PF glovepuppet Juliass is frantically networking to dodge a probable 25yr sentence for corruption – he has registered a political party (he is ‘Commander-in-Chief’LOL!) called ‘Economic Freedom Fighters’ LOL!

    I reckon it was Farley Mowat who made me yearn for Canadian wilderness. Perhaps Jack London though I’m not a fan. Perhaps the thought of Sitting Bull running to safety from palefaces with forked tongues in Canada. There are many parallels with SA history.

    Hope you’re having a good time.

    P.s. Sheesh! I hope you haven’t turned!

  • Ozoneblue

    Hey Brett.

    If White Calvinist males are the embodiment of all evil. I wonders where this fits in.

    “Daily Sun (August 2 2013) – A SANGOMA hatched an evil plan to make a barren woman fertile. It meant cutting open a pregnant woman and stealing her baby – which would then be sacrificed as muthi!

    THE PREGNANT WOMAN WAS GABISILE CHANGA. AND TODAY BOTH SHE AND HER BABY ARE DEAD! After the bloody attack on her, Gabisile’s body was set on fire. Her charred body was found in a playground at Dawn Park in Boksburg, Ekurhuleni. But the sangoma’s plot went wrong when Gabisile’s baby also died – and she needed a live baby to kill!”

    Do you think Gillian/PdV/Samantha would ever write a blog on this?

  • Ozoneblue
  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    The National Party did a great deal to suppress witchcraft. The ANC hasn’t said a word about its councillors involved in muthi murders in Ficksburg. Probably scared those councillors have stronger muthi than they do.
    Anyway, running down anyones sangoma is not a high percentage shot. LOL! WHo needs to be bewitched. The ANC elite have enough problems even though the Scorpions have been disbanded.

    Anyway, as the last remaining vestiges of the Pax Britannica break down on every level the population is becoming more base. You can see it everywhere. What you can expect when illiterates are in government and all over the administration.

  • Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
    August 4, 2013 at 8:38 am

    “The National Party did a great deal to suppress witchcraft. ”

    But apparently not nearly enough. I think it is time that us racist white males start educating the world on what is still happening in South Africa on a daily basis and why the Nats might have considered “separate development” as the best option for us all at the time.

  • Mau – CANT Zuma joins his fellow African leaders and fall over their feet to support Mugabe.

    OB.. are you a racist or not?

    Eish, blackish and whitish South Africans will need to do a lot of introspection about who they are and what they believe in. What kind of world do they want for themselves and their children. We would all do well to focus on being the change we want to see?

    One of the stark realities that our blackish brothers will need to focus on is that “Culture” will hold you back if you allow it. Witchcraft and the barbaric practice of the initiation schools are the things that progenate muthi murders and baby rapes. A certain amount of culture and tradition would need to be declared the “wishful ritual practices” that they are with no place in a modernising society. And the world has changed. If we want to make our own way in it, we need to modernise. The alternative is Zimbabwe by candlelight.

    We have counting in our favour that whitish South Africans already took a great step in recognising that their culture of racism was not working. Our blackish cousins then reciprocated by not murdering us all. So we managed to stop a cycle that started somewhere around the time of Bloedrivier.

    However the racial classification by the new leaders are reversing some of the gains we have made. OB, you look like a good example to show how clearly the injustices are fuelling deep anger and desperation that could be wrongly construed as racism?

  • Ozoneblue

    Mau – CANT Zuma joins his fellow African leaders and fall over their feet to support Mugabe.
    August 4, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    “OB.. are you a racist or not?”

    It doesn’t really matter if I’m racist or not, in fact it is totally irrelevant. I’m a WHITE remember and WHITES stole all the land. WHITES control the economy.

    I don’t make the bed. I have to sleep in it. But tbh, you need to realise that the NDR/ “indigenization” don’t give a fuck about any of that – what you or I are worth as individuals, what we believe or may not believe, WHITE males are the enemy irrespective. In we have had yet another successful democratic election in Zim to drive that point home. The people have spoken – INDIGENIZE now!

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Ozoneblue says:
    August 4, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Just me, but if I see a very vivid example made of a guy like Andries Tatane en then round about the same time same place ANC councillors (meervoud – not one, een, op sy eis) are engaging in muthi murders dan kry ek hond se gedagtes.

    You see, I’m not a ‘progressive’ so I start asking these kinds of questions and seeing whether dots connect.

    Hey, that reminds me – Dot’s in season so I better check where she is.

  • Ozoneblue

    “South African President Jacob Zuma on Sunday congratulated Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe for his re-election in a “successful” vote, calling for all parties to accept the result which the opposition has rejected.

    Zuma extended his “profound congratulations” to his Zimbabwean counterpart, a statement from South Africa’s foreign ministry said.”

  • Ozoneblue

    But even the AU disagrees.

    “e. Related to this, the Mission notes serious concerns raised by some stakeholders regarding the duplication and omission of voter names, which must not be allowed, casting doubts on the possible outcomes of the elections. The concerns about the voters roll are critical in determining the degree of disenfranchisement or disqualification of legitimate voters from voting.”

    “h. The Mission further notes that a significant number of local government ballot booklets had missing ballot papers and were not serially identified. One such case was noted at a polling station at Town House where two local government ballot booklets had only 99 papers instead of 100.”

    “i. The Mission notes with great concern the high incidence of voters who were turned away at polling stations. Illustrative of this widespread phenomenon, in a polling station in Gwanda, Matebeleland South, 85 voters were turned away. Reasons adduced by polling officers varied from voters appearing at the wrong ward and names not found on the Voters’ Roll.”

    “j. The late publication of the final list of polling stations, barely 48 hours to the opening of polls, may have contributed significantly to the high number of voters who were turned away for being at the wrong polling stations and/or redirected to other polling stations or referred to the Command Centre. AU observers generally noted the recurrence of this phenomenon in various polling stations they observed. It would help to allay the fears and reduce agitation about possible disenfranchisement if ZEC would make public the total number of eligible voters that could not exercise their civil right and duty of voting.”

    “k. The Mission notes the occurrence of high number of assisted voters in many polling stations nation-wide. Examples include polling stations in Muzarabani District, Mashonaland Central; at Musengizi, at the time of observation, 97 voters out of 370 were assisted; Kapembere Primary School 77 voters out of 374 were assisted and Bore Primary School 85 voters out of 374 were assisted. Furthermore, at a polling station observed by the AU Mission in Manicaland there were 97 assisted voters out of a total of 370 voters.”

    “l. While the current electoral laws provide for assistance by presiding officers, electoral officers and police officers, the involvement of such officials may influence or restrict the free will of the assisted voter.”

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?


    Mdluli and Mthethwa duel over job
    August 4 2013 at 01:25pm


    Johannesburg – Former Crime Intelligence boss Richard Mdluli wants to return to his position and Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa is against the idea.
    The Sunday Independent understands that the top spy is trying to force Mthethwa to allow him to return to duty – in blatant contravention of a court order that prohibits Mdluli from working in the police.

    His argument, it is claimed, is that he has not been charged with any wrongdoing and should be able to head the unit.

    Mthethwa, however, is said to be reluctant to grant the cop his way, citing the court interdict granted to the lobby group Freedom Under Law (FUL) in the Pretoria High Court last year. Judge Ephraim Makgoba interdicted Mdluli from “discharging any function or duty as a member and senior officer of the police”. National police commissioner Riah Phiyega and Mthethwa are both interdicted from assigning any function or duty to Mdluli.

    Mdluli is scheduled to return to the high court on September 11 for the full review granted to Freedom Under Law.

    Last week, the group filed its latest replying affidavit in the review application which, if granted, could result in Mdluli facing both criminal and disciplinary proceedings.

    In the past two years Mdluli has faced a litany of charges including murder, fraud, money laundering and defeating the ends of justice.
    In his judgment last year Judge Makgoba said the allegations against Mdluli were “no ordinary allegations of misconduct… (but) serious criminal actions which go to the fabric of public order and security”.

    “While these allegations remain unresolved (Mdluli’s) very presence in the senior echelons of the SAPS will necessarily erode the function he and SAPS as a whole are entrusted,” said Judge Makgoba in his judgment.

    But talk within the intelligence community is rife that Mdluli could be returning to the police within weeks.

    The Sunday Independent was unable to reach Mdluli. His attorney, Ike Motloung, said he had no comment.

    However national SAPS spokesman Solomon Makgale this week denied that Mdluli was back at the office or that he had been deployed to Mpumalanga.

    Mthethwa’s spokesman Zweli Mnisi denied that Mdluli had contacted or spoken to Mthethwa, saying the minister was not involved in any operational matters of the SAPS.

    “As far as the minister knows, General Mdluli remains under suspension and that is the matter being handled by the national commissioner. There has not been any meeting or correspondence between Mdluli and the minister, there has not,” said Mnisi.

    On Sunday Mnisi said Mdluli’s matter was a pure management issue which the minister would not interfere with.

    “If general Mdluli has any issues to discuss… he would go to his immediate boss.”

    If Mthethwa got involved it would be interfering, said Mnisi.

    But two independent sources, who cannot be named as they are not mandated to speak on the matter, have confirmed that Mdluli would return. The two – as well as a third source, who did not wish to be named for fear of reprisals – confirmed a fight between Mdluli and Mthethwa.

    Elaborating on the nature of the fight, one of the sources in the intelligence community said Mdluli was using his knowledge of the security upgrades at Mthethwa’s home as a weapon in his fight with the minister to get back into the police service.

    “The Hawks investigated Nathi Mthethwa’s wall. Mdluli still has a network there. They are the ones who built the wall,” he said.

    Last year Auditor-General Terence Nombembe found that Crime Intelligence slush funds had been used to build a wall around Mthethwa’s private home.

    However, he ruled that there was no evidence to show that Mthethwa knew the wall was built using slush funds.

    Another source said Mthethwa believed that Mdluli had prompted the investigation and that it had led to the breakdown in their friendship.

    A decision by Mthethwa to allow Mdluli to return to the police would be seen as his patching up the rift in their friendship.

    Mdluli, who became head of intelligence in July 2009, first faced charges of murder, intimidation, kidnapping, assault, and defeating the ends of justice in March 2011 after he was linked to the death of his lover Tshidi Buthelezi’s husband, Oupa Ramogibe.

    In May 2011, Mdluli was suspended and four months later, charges of fraud, corruption, theft and money laundering were added to his docket – all linked to his alleged abuse of the Crime Intelligence slush fund.

    But by December 2011, the fraud-related criminal charges were withdrawn. The murder-related criminal charges were withdrawn by February 2012. Mdluli no longer faced disciplinary charges and he was reinstated on March 31, 2012.

    Two months later, however, disciplinary charges were reinstituted against Mdluli and by the end of May 2012, Mdluli was suspended for a second time. Mdluli overturned his suspension in the labour court in June 2012 but this decision was set aside.

    FUL is however arguing that Mdluli must face both the criminal and disciplinary charges.

    In its review, which will be heard next month, Freedom Under Law wants the court to set aside:

    * The decision taken by the head of the specialised commercial crime unit on December 6, 2011 to withdraw charges of fraud, corruption and money laundering against Mdluli;

    * A decision made on February 12, 2012 by the acting national director of public prosecutions to withdraw criminal charges of murder, kidnapping, intimidation, assault and defeating the ends of justice against Mdluli;

    * Phiyega’s decision on February 29, last year, to withdraw disciplinary charges against Mdluli, and;

    * a decision by Phiyega one month later to reinstate Mdluli as crime intelligence head.

    In its replying affidavit filed last week, Freedom Under Law’s chairman Judge Johan Krieglerhad argued that although Mdluli was suspended more than a year ago, in that time no progress appeared to have been made in finalising the alleged disciplinary process.

    Phiyega was not being candid with the court as neither the disciplinary charges against Mdluli nor the notice of suspension was before the court, said Kriegler.

    “She has not yet provided the court with a single circumstance to explain what General Mdluli’s alleged disciplinary transgression were, nor what has been done pursuant to such allegations.”

    Kriegler dismissed arguments that Mdluli’s suspension was “purely a labour dispute”, saying that it ignored the legitimate public interest in the matter – a dispute between a government entity and the citizens to whom it was accountable – which affected the security of the state.

    That Mdluli was charged and suspended after Freedom Under Law instituted its court case in May last year was evidence the proceedings were justified and the decision to withdraw disciplinary proceedings and reinstate Mdluli was flawed, said Kriegler.

    Unless Phiyega produced the charges Mdluli would face, there was no evidence that the charges had been reinstated, said Kriegler. The inquest cleared Mdluli of any involvement in Ramogibe’s death.

    Sunday Independent, Sapa

  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
    August 4, 2013 at 14:06 pm

    Hey Brett – check this little MUSLIM boy born somewhere else than the USA.


  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    LOL! Thanks, Maggs! Those comments are classic.

  • Ozoneblue – BLACK people stole ALL our taxes and the democracy!

    Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    This is democracy Maggs. But not as we know it.

    the real problem is us racist WHITES with our Whiteness and morals and standards who believe we are superior to these oppressed Black peoples. That is the challenge.

    “Anti-corruption watchdog Global Witness, citing links between mining companies, Zanu-PF insiders and Zimbabwe’s pro-Mugabe military, has also alleged that state diamond revenues may have been spent on securing the Mugabe re-election.”

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    I too extend profound congratulations to Mr Mugabe. More than two-thirds of Zimbabweans appear to have grasped that he is the only leader who can represent their aspirations to govern themselves, without bowing to British “Lancaster House” type interference, and free of the anti-heteronormative norms that were foisted by COLONIALISTS without due consultations!


  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (

    Brett …

  • Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    August 5, 2013 at 9:38 am

    “and free of the anti-heteronormative norms that were foisted by COLONIALISTS without due consultations!”

    I guess we can look forward to a couple of decapitations then?

    I’m sure our White liberals are very eager looking forward to their BLACK heroes Mugabe/JM/AM/EFF/Makgoba cluster and “indigenization” program to align us to African norms for “natural” sexual behaviour.

  • Paul Kearney

    I’m sure Baas Blade will get a thumbs up from Pierre for this diatribe. It’s not insulting hat speech or racist in any way of course.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Paul

    “I’m sure Baas Blade will get a thumbs up from Pierre for this diatribe.”

    Obviously, I cannot speak for Pierre, who is very busy. What I will say is that the DA must not expect it will get away with clever “tricks” anywhere outside of West Zillestan. It is characteristic of LIBERAL WHITISTS that they swoop like vultures to take advantage of temporary rifts in the ANC!


  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs, Ozone, Brett, JR, Dmwangi, Zooks, Gwebe and the rest of our TROLLS.

    I suggest you click the link below; you may find yourself staring into the mirror!


  • ozoneblue

    Exactly mfd.

    ‘But perhaps most usefully, it might start with considering how much trolling is symptomatic of social injustice, economic disadvantage, and political disenfranchisement.’

    Especially when it is all because of your class, your gender, your religion, your sexual preferences or worste of all because of the color of your skin. That is why there were so many ‘trolls’ who trolled against Apartheid.