It seems to me the ANC and President Mbeki are making heavy weather out of what should be a rather obvious and uncomplicated transition. Why are they being so secretive and why are they so focused on the National Assembly to drive this process?
I was rather surprised last night when President Thabo Mbeki announced yesterday that he had handed a letter to the Speaker of the National Assembly to tender his resignation as President of the Republic of South Africa, “effective from the day that will be determined by the National Assembly”.
As I understand it, the Constitution does not require the Speaker or Parliament to play any role in the resignation of the President. It is therefore strange that the letter was tendered to the Speaker and that the timing of the resignation was abdicated to Parliament.
I am therefore not sure why he said that he will resign on a day decided on by the National Assembly, thereby purporting to abdicate the power to decide when he resigns to one of the other branches of government. It is as if the President is not aware of the provisions of section 90 of the Constitution and is therefore scared that if he resigns before the National Assembly is ready to elect a new President, South Africa will be leaderless.
When a President resigns (or if a President dies in office) a vacancy occurs immediately in his office and in terms of section 90 of the Constitution, the Deputy President takes over as acting President until such time as the National Assembly has had time to gather under the auspices of the Chief Justice to elect a new permanent President from among its members.
If the Deputy President also resigns, the cabinet must designate someone from among its members to act as President until a new President is elected by the National Assembly.
This provision is important because it ensures that South Africa will at all times have a commander in chief and that someone is automatically designated by the Constitution as an acting President until such time as the National Assembly has had the time to elect a new President. We do not want to be caught without a President in charge of our country if, for example, we are invaded by the Swaziland navy.
But maybe the President (and the ANC) is well aware of this provision and knows South Africa at no time will be without at least an acting President. Maybe Mbeki was prevailed upon by the ANC to abdicated the timing of his resignation to the National Assembly to ensure that the Deputy President, Pumzile Mhlambo-Ngcuka, does not act as President for any significant period of time. After all, she is persona non grata amongst pro-Zuma supporters and even having her as an acting President for a day or two would have upset them.
By abdicating the timing of his resignation to the National Assembly, the resignation of President Mbeki and the election of a new President can now be choreographed in such a manner that would ensure a new President is chosen on the same day the National Assembly has designates as the one on which President Mbeki resigns.
I am also quite perplexed why the ANC cannot just tell us – the electorate – who they have decided to be the new President. Now Jacob Zuma has said at a news conference that it will announce the name of the candidate to take over from President Mbeki in Parliament at a later stage. Why the secrecy? Surely they owe it to the electorate to tell us what is happening. This is not North Korea.
The election of a new President by the National Assembly must occur within 30 days after the resignation of President Mbeki. If no President is elected within 30 days, the Parliament will be dissolved and a new election will be held within 90 days.
At the moment Mr. Zuma is not a member of the National Assembly. As I have said before my reading of the Electoral Act is that it would be impossible for Mr. Zuma to become a member of the National Assembly before the next election, so he cannot be elected President before the next election is held.
If the ANC wants Kgalema Motlanthe to take over as President for the next few months, it will therefore either have to get the National Assembly to elect him as a caretaker President who will then serve as President until an election is held next June, or it will have to get the Deputy President to resign and get the cabinet to nominate Kgalema Motlanthe as acting President for the next 120 days until an election can be held.
If Motlanthe is only nominated by the cabinet as an acting President (and he is not elected as caretaker President by the National Assembly within 30 days after the resignation of President Mbeki) a general election will then have to be held within 90 days – which would be some time in January 2009.
This scenario seems unlikely because it would require South Africans to go to the polls in mid-January just when everyone is arriving back from their Christmas holidays.
So, in the next few days Mr Motlanthe will probably be nominated by two members of the National Assembly as required by the Constitution and if no other nominations are made, he will, by default, be elected as President and will serve as full President until the next President is sworn in after the next election which must be held by June 2009.
It is only after that election that Mr Jacob Zuma will then probably become our President. Meanwhile, the big unanswered question is what will happen to Vusi Pikoli.
UPDATE: Die Burger reports that the ANC wants to go for an acting President (Motlanthe) in terms of section 90 of the Constitution and not for the election of a caretaker President until next June. If this is correct we will have to have an election by the end of January.
“It is only after that election that Mr Jacob Zuma will then probably become our president”
Good! I love this.
Mr Maseko, you love the idea of a corrupr president far too much. I think that we should all contribute towards your admission into a nice peaceful place… But, I doubt we want that election so soon. I don’t think its a good idea, rather have the proper election as it should be, either way, the ANC will win and it will get one of JZ groupies to run the country. Not the groupies he’s said to rape. It also seems that because of how Mbeki has left the Union Buildings, many ANC supporters or sympathizers won’t vote for the ANC becaues of how they handled the matter. I don’t think I would be keen on such power-hungry people being in power.
I was under the impression the ANC wants time to heal the divisions, but if there is talk of a new political party, then maybe they would want the elections to happen sooner, to minimise damage or even discourage such a party form forming.
Our Pierre De Vos boffin with his black boyfriend himself is a huge ANC and Zuma fan. Dont let he bullshit you. I know Pierre very well and he just loves the ANC left wing. Such a hypocrate!!!!
Nkululeko,
“I don’t think I would be keen on such power-hungry people being in power”
You probably lost my “friend”, power hungry? not as much as Mbeki.
It says it all Mbeki was never elected by the masses to run the country it was just an executive decision.
Zuma on the other hand has been uplifted, supported all the way to the union building by the great majority of our people. Now you talk about power-hungry? how funny.
You label someone who has been elected by the people themselves power-hungry? Surely you must be suffering from the new desease called Mbekiziology.
Pierre, thanks for placing this move into context under our constitution. But I still don’t seem to understand how Kgalema Motlanthe can become the acting/stand-in president. Has the deputy-president resigned as well? There has been no mention of this, but they (the media) are already reporting about Motlanthe up to the task. As you said, he and Jacob Zuma are not a part of the National Comittee. Where is the Deputy-pres?
Yes, 2s where is Phumzile in all this?
Andrea Becker,
I do not know who you are but can we please shy away from potentially racist and homophobic statements. Let deal with issues.
There is nothing racist or homophobic about my statement. It is a fact that De Vos is gay with a black boyfriend. It is also a fact that he is a Zuma supporter. What is wrong in putting these facts on the table???
khosi // Sep 22, 2008 at 4:03 pm
………………………………………………….
I sometimes get problems commenting here for that reason. I always to aim here to challenge people mentally and for them to reciprocate so that we may all become better citizens in the end. I long for the day when we deal with issues here and shy away from insulting each other…
Andrea Becker // Sep 22, 2008 at 4:07 pm
…………………………………………………………………
I will not comment on the veracity or otherwise of your statement but I know that your utterances are impertinent here and therefore unwarranted…
VoVo // Sep 22, 2008 at 3:56 pm
………………………………………………….
There were insinuations that she may resign in solidarity with the President. Secondly, there was another rumour that she was not considered due to the fact that the ANC NEC could not bear to see another Mbeki loyalist assuming the highest office in the land. I presume these are the two reasons she is not in the picture…
@ Sne
Has she resigned?
Dont why De Vos started the debate here in the first place, as he is a Zummaist.
I like the line, relating to SA being “invaded by the Swaziland navy”. ha ha ha ha!
VoVo // Sep 22, 2008 at 4:16 pm
…………………………………………………
I have no idea…
Maybe the reason why they want Mbeki’s resignation to be effective on the day that National Assembly appoints a new President is to flout the Constitutional requirement that the Deputy-President should be acting President until a new one has been appointed…
To honour your (Mbeki) exit, I revert from calling you Klein Mugabe, dictator in training and will respect you and call you Mr Mbeki – the ruthless manager.
you talking shit man!
Good. I am pleased.
Thabo Mbeki fan page has for the first time amassed more followers than the Jacob Zuma fan page on Facebook. Today TM’s fan list grew ten fold and the day is not over yet.
Suppose one can say the masses are not on Facebook but the masses are not on FriendsofJZ either. And no one of us can really tell us what the masses are thinking. But if online and radio sentiment is anything to go by, the ANC just ensured a much kinder perception on legacy for TM.
In terms of S86(3) The chief justice must be approached to determine the time and date of the election. So if TM’s resignation is effective on 25 Sep 2008 and the chief justice has not be formally notified by the executive (acting president) or parliament, the Section 90(1) hierachy would apply, and the dep president would be acting president, etc, until such a time and date as has been determined by the CJ, provided such a period is not more than 30 days from the effective date of the President’s resignation (i.e. around 24 October 2008)? In my mind there’s no formality save for the oath of affirmation (which would not have to be conformed with if that person had previously acted as acting president, as has the Dep President)? Technically, if Phumzile’s resignation is effective anytime after the president’s resignation, she is the acting president, until such a time as another person is elected President. This may be of academic relevence only, but I think it is correct.
Andrea Becker! I try so hard to convince ppl on a daily basis that not all white South African are racist biggots, then fools like you have to open your mouths and undermine all the rest of us !!
If you were neither homophobic or racist then then the fact that the highly respected Prof is gay and has a black boyfriend would be a NON ISSUE !It would be like me mentioning that you are a hetrosexual man, with a white girlriend and that your rhetoric is remarkable similar to that of the mindless ramblings of tha AWB !
Remember simple because something is a fact or true doesn’t necessarly mean it wont cause hurt and offence, for example think back to ur school days, when all ur classmates would refer to u as the : “Stupid kid”, that is undoubtable a fact and true, however i’m sure it never the less cause you offence!
I hope u realise that only harm can result from the sentiments u express(to both black and whites people)! The more you voiced ur facists views, the more you prevent the wounds of past atrocities from healing !
I very rarely agree with the views expressed from the ANCYL, however, i do fully endorse the view that if u find that u are incapable of change and becoming more tolerant, then u are neither welcome or deserve to be called a South African and should leave ! However you may find that in countries like England and Australia, your distorted world views are frowned upon, just as much as they are here!
Oh and to say Pierre is a supporter of JZ just goes to show what an profoundly intellectually challenged a person you are !
Pierre
Have a look at this:
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=103678&sn=Detail
If you don’t want to read everything search for the paragraph that starts as follows:
“A further clue to the direction of probable intended action by the SACP/ANC towards the judiciary”
Andrea Becker. I am rather flummoxed a a little bit hurt that you call me a Jacob Zuma supporter. You do not get out much do you?
Pierre
On any other blog this idiot; Andrea Becker would be banned for posting such tripe, please do us a favour and follow suit!
Guys..anyway..who is this Andrea Becker? Becker you are so barbaric….after 14 years of Democracy, you don’t know that there’s NO such thing called black? Infact you dead alive…..!!!!
I have my doubts that Andrea Becker is real.
Ugqatso Ulubalekile Zizi.Siyabulela.Today we hae Mil/bilinaires because of that foundation you laid the past 14 years.Phosa benefitted a lot from your rule
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=iol1222104508146M120
“Ousted President Thabo Mbeki has approached the Constitutional Court for leave to appeal Judge Chris Nicholson’s inference that as the head of state he interfered with the NPA’s prosecution of ANC leader Jacob Zuma.
The Star will reveal on Tuesday that Mbeki – in his personal and official capacity as president – alternatively wants the highest court in the land to set aside Nicholson’s inference of wrongdoing against him and his cabinet.
“It is unfair and unjust for me to be judged and condemned on the basis of the findings in the Zuma matter. The interests of justice, in my respectful submission, would demand that the matter be rectified,” Mbeki said in the court papers that name Zuma as respondent.”
Pierre, I’m almost 100% sure that the report in the Burger is incorrect. The ANC wants to bypass the acting-president stage and instal Motlanthe as caretaker leader.
Mbeki: “”The promise that I made informed all my actions throughout the period I was president of the country.”
“Don’t cry for me, Oh Azania.
The truth is, I never left you.
…
I kept my promise!
Don’t keep your distance?”
“Gloom and despondency have never defeated adversity. Trying times need courage and resilience. Our strength as a people is not tested during the best of times. As we said before, we should never become despondent because the weather is bad nor should we turn triumphalist because the sun shines.”
Lumps a throat.
To mention fact that Pierre De Vos is running around with his black boyfriend, is not racist in any way. It is a matter of fact. Perre De Vos, a Zumaist, does not even need to comment on this. For the black South African on here saying that BLACK is not a term using in post 1994, let me remind you of BLACK empowerment, BLACK laywers ass. etc etc. While we on the race issue, Im asking this black South African to list only 3 things of note that blacks designed or evented that changed our lives to the better…….sure you and your liberalists here will strugge to list one…….you cant even fly a helicopter! What happned in SA past few days is normal to AFRICA.
Andrea Becker // Sep 22, 2008 at 8:48 pm
You are so stupid…! You racist, Gone are the times of the Apartheid regime, I don’t know which planet are you living in? You are a disgraced to the white community…….!!!!!!
Andrea Becker
Go spew your racist rubbish somewhere else, try something like http://www.awb.co.za/racist pigs. We do not need your types here.
What you don’t get Andrea Becker is that you did not have to tell us that. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this discourse. Just stick it gently and easily up your-you-know-what. Easy does it.
It’s not even worth responding to this idiot. He is trolling, and wants to get a response from everyone. All can see what a fool Andrea Becker is–the best way to deal with it is to completely ignore this person.
-PM
I think Andrea Becker should go to sleep.
“put to sleep” is more apt in my opinion!
Business Day reports that an ANC source from the parliamentary caucus says that Motlanthe is now the President (not acting) and it is official. Could this be true?
If it is true, what will happen to Zuma? What about the term of office? When does it start for Motlanthe?
Dumisani Mkhize, I think it is true that Motlanthe will take over from TM, I’m told by the reliable source that Baleka Mbete refused the post. So on the Zuma issue, I think JZ will take over next year when the polls come.
Thank you Victor.
Victor /Dumisani
It was pointed out that Baleka was going to be but JZ intervened arguing that she can not be elevated above Motlanthe. But it will only be official on Thursday when TM’s resignation becomes effective. Hope that helps.
Ok..Thanks AB..so I’m also told that some cabinet ministers are preparing to merge another political party, that will oppose the ANC next year…is it true?
Or sorry NOT merge to form a strong opposition to the ruling party..!
Victor
I think that was a card played by the TM grouping before the weekend, the ANC’s culture is such that a move like that would be seen as “treason”. In my opinion that is!
Ja…but they must be very careful, because ANC is the big organisation. Anyway, they have a right, although they won’t succeed…!
A strong opposition party has never been a bad thing in a democracy.
Surely the comments made by Andrea Becker can be construed as “hate speech”? To my mind, this individual adds nothing of relevance to this site, aside from racist, homophobic and vile comments. While it does help to ignore an attention-seeking individual like this, can they not just be removed? I have seen some of my comments with an “awaiting moderation” statement – can’t we just moderate them right out of this post?
At least Lindelani is entertaining, even when he is writing rubbish about whites, Xhosas and anybody anti Zuma. Andrea Becker is just a complete social misfit and, quite obviously, an apartheid throwback!!!
The Zuma faction of the ANC have really orchestrated a coup d’tat in this country. The fact that it has been non-violent and without military backing, does not render it any less of an overthrow of our government. I am horrified at the way in which this has all unfolded and, unfortunately, any respect I had for Zuma and his cronies has not been completely eradicated. To place their own fear of loss of majority at the next elections above good governance of this country is despicable. And their continued manipulation of the system through their promotion of Motlanthe, flouting the Constitution, further erodes any faith we may have in the future of this democracy.
To Andrea Becker:
I don’t think anyone who regularly reads and contributes to this blog cares about Pierre’s choice of partner or his politics, other than you. If casting aspersions on his character is all that you have to contribute, as you obviously cannot understand any of what he talks about, then perhaps you should just stay away.
As the saying goes: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. (Abraham Lincoln)
Andrea you halfwit, i am a white! ok stupid, you want some things that black man has invented ! (1) Alexander Mils(a black man) invented the elavator(2)John standard invented the refigerator(3)Garrett A. Morgan, a black man invented the traffic light(4)Richard Spikes created the automatic gear shift. For future reference, when you have a realy stupid question to ask, please for the love of God just google it, rather then humiliating yourself !
Oh and one other thing, the Democracy which me and you have been blessed to live in, was largely created as a result of countless exceptional BLACK men(Nelson Mandela, Bhiko,a number of generations of the Mbeki’s ect ect) and woman!
Since you clearly believe that inventings things determines a persons position or value in society, what have you invented lately?
Hi Pierre,
You are raising an interesting question about the President resigning but leaving Parliament to determine the date upon which the resignation will be effective.
However, was the President’s speech on Sunday night and the letter to the Speaker not meant to serve as notice to the country and Parliament (respectively) of his resignation – something we are familiar with in the ordinary employment environment?
What is fundamentally wrong with the President resigning and leaving Parliament some leeway to set the motion in place to replace him before the resignation comes into effect?
Is this not a good gesture from him to the employer (Parliament) – something that some people in senior/jihj position would do to prepare the employer for search for a replacement. Must the President just up and leave office because he has resigned? Or are you saying he should have stated when he prefers to leave office completely. If the latter, what fundamental difference would this have made. And is this really constitutionally impermissable.
But I find this line in your piece puzzling “It is therefore strange that the letter was tendered to the Speaker and that the timing….” Who should the President tender his resignation to if not the Speaker of the very Parliament that appointed him?
Does the Constitution say whom the resignation should be directed to? To me, it makes sense that the very institution that appoints you must receive your resignation. The Speaker is the right person – she is the head of that institution that appoints presidents.
Thanks for your intriguing and provocative thoughts though… At the very least, we get to know more about the constitutional processes regarding the removal of the President – who would have thought that this provision of the Constitution would be used so soon in the history of this supreme document?
Here is a copy and paste list of things black people have invented! Sorry Prof I know this isn’t what u created this site for but what Andrea said really irritated me!
* air conditioning unit: Frederick M. Jones; July 12, 1949
* almanac: Benjamin Banneker; Approx 1791
* auto cut-off switch: Granville T. Woods; January 1,1839
* auto fishing devise: G. Cook; May 30, 1899
* automatic gear shift: Richard Spikes; February 28, 1932
* baby buggy: W.H. Richardson; June 18, 1899
* bicycle frame: L.R. Johnson; Octber 10, 1899
* biscuit cutter: A.P. Ashbourne; November 30, 1875
* blood plasma bag: Charles Drew; Approx. 1945
* cellular phone: Henry T. Sampson; July 6, 1971
* chamber commode: T. Elkins; January 3, 1897
* clothes dryer: G. T. Sampson; June 6, 1862
* curtain rod: S. R. Scratton; November 30, 1889
* curtain rod support: William S. Grant; August 4, 1896
* door knob: O. Dorsey; December 10, 1878
* door stop: O. Dorsey; December 10, 1878
* dust pan: Lawrence P. Ray; August 3, 1897
* egg beater: Willie Johnson; February 5, 1884
* electric lampbulb: Lewis Latimer; March 21, 1882
* elevator: Alexander Miles; October 11, 1867
* eye protector: P. Johnson; November 2, 1880
* fire escape ladder: J. W. Winters; May 7, 1878
* fire extinguisher: T. Marshall; October 26, 1872
* folding bed: L. C. Bailey; July 18, 1899
* folding chair: Brody & Surgwar; June 11, 1889
* fountain pen: W. B. Purvis; January 7, 1890
* furniture caster: O. A. Fisher; 1878
* gas mask: Garrett Morgan; October 13, 1914
* golf tee: T. Grant; December 12, 1899
* guitar: Robert F. Flemming, Jr. March 3, 1886
* hair brush: Lydia O. Newman; November 15,18–
* hand stamp: Walter B. Purvis; February 27, 1883
* horse shoe: J. Ricks; March 30, 1885
* ice cream scooper: A. L. Cralle; February 2, 1897
* improv. sugar making: Norbet Rillieux; December 10, 1846
* insect-destroyer gun: A. C. Richard; February 28, 1899
* ironing board: Sarah Boone; December 30, 1887
* key chain: F. J. Loudin; January 9, 1894
* lantern: Michael C. Harvey; August 19, 1884
* lawn mower: L. A. Burr; May 19, 1889
* lawn sprinkler: J. W. Smith; May 4, 1897
* lemon squeezer: J. Thomas White; December 8, 1893
* lock: W. A. Martin; July 23, 18–
* lubricating cup: Ellijah McCoy; November 15, 1895
* lunch pail: James Robinson; 1887
* mail box: Paul L. Downing; October 27, 1891
* mop: Thomas W. Stewart; June 11, 1893
* motor: Frederick M. Jones; June 27, 1939
* peanut butter: George Washington Carver; 1896
* pencil sharpener: J. L. Love; November 23, 1897
* record player arm: Joseph Hunger Dickenson January 8, 1819
* refrigerator: J. Standard; June 14, 1891
* riding saddles: W. D. Davis; October 6, 1895
* rolling pin: John W. Reed; 1864
* shampoo headrest: C. O. Bailiff; October 11, 1898
* spark plug: Edmond Berger; February 2, 1839
* stethoscope: Imhotep; Ancient Egypt
* stove: T. A. Carrington; July 25, 1876
* straightening comb: Madam C. J. Walker; Approx 1905
* street sweeper: Charles B. Brooks; March 17, 1890
* phone transmitter: Granville T. Woods; December 2, 1884
* thermostat control: Frederick M. Jones; February 23, 1960
* traffic light: Garrett Morgan; November 20, 1923
* tricycle: M. A. Cherry; May 6, 1886
* typewriter: Burridge & Marshman; April 7, 1885
Ooh, I know you feeling stupid now !
Andrea Becker,The tribe has spoken……You are the FIRST and ONLY person to be voted off constitutionally speaking !
Mpho
Why so quiet? What’s brewing? Digesting?
Yeah, I vote for either Pierre blocking Andrea or us all choosing to ignore the rants, or else we band together for a one way plane ticket.
WOW, i’m noticing something here all it takes to unite the different voices on this site, is a common enemy ! Well done Andrea, u have united the Users of this web site in the common dislike of you, and your world views ! It’s like the UDF, everyone from different walks of life joining together in solidarity, against YOU !
Andrea, South Africa needs more people like you, who we can all jointly dislike, and as a result grow closer !
Legal Eagles
Mbeki has applied to be part of the appeals process against Nicholson’s judgment.
Can the new president give a presidential pardon to Zuma? If so, I assume the appeal will still be valid on the procedural issue?
If the ANC now interferes with the NPA and the appeal is withdrawn, what happens to Mbeki’s part in it? What options does he then?
Perhaps Andrea Becker is a disgruntled UWC law student who couldn’t cut it.
What a dipshit.
There you have it, confirms what I said. Our ape friends make peanut butter while our brothers in Europe and USA build aeroplanes. Why SA has no black pilots? Let Pierre De Vos’ black boyfriend answers my question. The facts hurt, now you want to ‘moderate’ me. That is typical to Africa. Most recently we also saw that in Zim where another ape is ruling. When will you learn, when you deal with apes then you get chaos. Whites also fought the Brits, not only blacks fought for this country. Mandela was nothing more than a terrorist of note.
No, not feeling stupid at all. You are making a fool of yourself. Why searching among black Americans for inventions? Move closer to SA! SA whites invented the Rooivalk helicopter, creepy crawly etc etc while our blacks designed new methods in how to blow up an ATM machine. Why is all the 2010 soccer staduims designed by whites? Why cant our black soccer team not play the game? Where is our black SAA pilots? Where is our black politicians of quality? Why do black judges constantly get arrested for drunken driving and corruption? WHY?
Andrea, please would you go vomit your boring and grammatically unsound hatred all over someone else’s blog – you’re rather lowering the tone of the debate.
once again the facts hurt ……………………….
Gazo, like the research, I just searched to make sure that blacks didn’t invent garden gnomes, because the invetors of garden gnomes are seriously in trouble as far as I’m concerned, if I get the impression, when I have a conversation with someone, that he had invented the garden gnome I will have a serious talk to him, I don’t care if he’s the prof’s boyfriend, you even mention garden gnome man! I am mad now!
Andrea, if you have something to tell us?
Actually (seeing as I am White) the only thing that offends me is your stupidity. You’re a joke, forget the inventions, there are 10 Blacks just on this blog that could talk circles around you. You’re an embarassment to White people and you’re even an embarassment to more sophisticated racists.
Andrea, the lack of social intelligence is the reason you’re still single, I’m just kidding about the garden gnome on your porch, it’s your personality
And your mamma, who interferes in all your relationships, telling you who to date, don’t be shy, if you like some black guy, nobody will judge you, go for it! What does your mamma know?
I eat blacks for breakfast, I’m going to sleap now as I’m really tired, I cant remember when last I had such a lovely conversation with myself, night every one.
TO: Pierre,
CC: All, exclude Andrea Becker
I think there is a whole lot more in the presidents speech than we are allowing ourselves to see.
For example he says:-
“To everyone, and responding to these messages, I would like to say that gloom and despondency have never defeated adversity. Trying times need courage and resilience. Our strength as a people is not tested during the best of times. As we said before, we should never become despondent because the weather is bad nor should we turn triumphalist because the sun shines.”
If you take this (“To everyone, and responding to these messages, “) away, he is speaking to South Africans. Leave it in there and he is talking strictly to his supporters. And besides, there is nothing gloomy about being a Jacob Zuma supporter today, is there?
Pierre
I am now taking the liberty to speak on behalf of all bloggers here except Andrea Becker.(If any blogger disagree please indicate so).
WOULD YOU PLEASE INVESTIGATE ALL POSTS MADE BY THIS BECKER PERSON FOR HATE SPEACH AND RACIST REMARKS, IF YOU FIND THAT THIS PERSON HAS MADE HIM/HER-SELF GUILTY OF THE ABOVE WE REQUEST YOU TO REMOVE THEIR BLOGGING RIGHTS HERE. FREEDOM OF SPEACH COMES WITH A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITIES WHICH THIS PERSON HAS NO RESPECT FOR.
FOR EASE OF REFERENCE I COPIED/PASTE ALL THE TRIPE SPEWED BY THIS PERSON ABOVE:
Our Pierre De Vos boffin with his black boyfriend himself is a huge ANC and Zuma fan. Dont let he bullshit you. I know Pierre very well and he just loves the ANC left wing. Such a hypocrate!!!!
There is nothing racist or homophobic about my statement. It is a fact that De Vos is gay with a black boyfriend. It is also a fact that he is a Zuma supporter. What is wrong in putting these facts on the table???Dont why De Vos started the debate here in the first place, as he is a Zummaist.
you talking shit man!
To mention fact that Pierre De Vos is running around with his black boyfriend, is not racist in any way. It is a matter of fact. Perre De Vos, a Zumaist, does not even need to comment on this. For the black South African on here saying that BLACK is not a term using in post 1994, let me remind you of BLACK empowerment, BLACK laywers ass. etc etc. While we on the race issue, Im asking this black South African to list only 3 things of note that blacks designed or evented that changed our lives to the better…….sure you and your liberalists here will strugge to list one…….you cant even fly a helicopter! What happned in SA past few days is normal to AFRICA.
There you have it, confirms what I said. Our ape friends make peanut butter while our brothers in Europe and USA build aeroplanes. Why SA has no black pilots? Let Pierre De Vos’ black boyfriend answers my question. The facts hurt, now you want to ‘moderate’ me. That is typical to Africa. Most recently we also saw that in Zim where another ape is ruling. When will you learn, when you deal with apes then you get chaos. Whites also fought the Brits, not only blacks fought for this country. Mandela was nothing more than a terrorist of note.
Andrea Becker // Sep 22, 2008 at 11:40 pm
No, not feeling stupid at all. You are making a fool of yourself. Why searching among black Americans for inventions? Move closer to SA! SA whites invented the Rooivalk helicopter, creepy crawly etc etc while our blacks designed new methods in how to blow up an ATM machine. Why is all the 2010 soccer staduims designed by whites? Why cant our black soccer team not play the game? Where is our black SAA pilots? Where is our black politicians of quality? Why do black judges constantly get arrested for drunken driving and corruption? WHY?
once again the facts hurt ……………………….
AB, for goodness sakes man, it was hurtfull enough reading it for the first time
20 years ago blacks accused apartheid for their low iq. Now 20 years later they still blame apartheid, as they still have a very low iq. It just shows, you cant turn ape into Einstein!
thats why piere de vos went for a black boyfriend……
Andrea, enough, say something constructive
I think Becker said something that every white person has heard before, this line of talking is not new nor is it unifying.
What you don’t hear though is the voices from the other side, because you don’t invite them to your conversations. Did you see any responses after you wrote a comment?
ie. If you want to speak to ladies: Are you going to rant on and on about how women are like men without reason or accountability?
This website brought people from all walks of life together in a fruitful debate about actual occurrences and what do you decide to do? Exactly what you accuse the object of your hatred of, not building unity, but destruction of our unique bond as bloggers of Pierre’s site.
Do yourself a favour and read some of the previous posts so you could get an idea of who the people are, you cant just read Lindelani’s and say it’s time to reciprocate. Although, Lindelani said some things I agree with in the previous discussion. Oh and another tip, Becker, read the professor’s opening debate, it’s free knowledge from an academic.
Friend // Sep 23, 2008 at 7:58 am
…………………………………………………….
Do you think Malema will be very popular, no! make that notorious, if the media ignored his abuse of speech statements and focused on other people who made constructive statements on public platform?
I submit you ought to apply the same logic here and remember that the more you respond the more the undesirable regurgitation will continue. On the flip-side this means you are contributing to the undesirable spewings as much as the person to whom you are responding.
After Lindelani Maseko insulted me and all other Xhosas after my post to Mouse about the assassination of Shaka, have you ever seen me responding to any of his posts?
We should apply the same logic to Andrea Becker and I assure you we will emerge victorious and focus on the reason why this blog was created in the first place…
I worked at the UWC before. You just dont understand freedom of speech. The reason why we have this political mess is exactly because this is an African country run by Africans. We see this mess happening accross Africa. This is not new to Africa at all. This is facts, but to those who get hurt by these facts, this is ‘racist’. They regard such normal statements as racist as I am hitting facts.
To refer to black people as monkeys is racist, if you want to stick to facts, keep it into the context of the preferred topic and try to promote the unity and dignity.
I think the new ANC leadership is really struggling to achieve any sort of credibility. The media has thoroughly debunked their spin that recalling Mbeki was a party unity issue and had nothing to do with Malema, revenge, or keeping oom Jacob out of jail.
Also, Oom Jacob has his own particular credibility issues after it emerged that he didn’t want Mbeki recalled and obviously could’nt persuade his comrades otherwise, and also in that he seems powerless to reign in the war talking hotheads around him. He seems like a lame duck president even before he becomes president. I heard a woman journo/analyst on the SABC yesterday completely smear Zuma as lacking in gravitas and acting flippant about the current situation. All this without even mentioning that he still faces serious racketeering and fraud charges, and that his closest advisor is still a Shaik.
I think that there is going to a growing battle with the media – they will pepper Zuma and and the new leadership with questions related to his fraud case problems at every opportunity, and this is going to continue to eat at their credibility as the election approachs. Bullshit and bluster only carry you so far. The election (and the various legal proceedings around Zuma) is going to put a growing magnifying glass on these issues and I cannot see how the ANC is going to be able to keep Zuma on as president elect. So, I predict that the NEC will be forced to ask Zuma to step back, and allow Kaglema, who will have further enhanced his stature by the time of the election, to continue as president going forward. Yay!
Sorry, Sne, I agree with you, but I still reply to Lindelani sometimes to get rid of some of my anger, really, even if he sometimes provoke me, I sometimes appreciate the challenge and I think Lindelani has come a long way since the initial posts, maybe?
President Thabo Mbeki strikes back:
http://www.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2397877,00.html
http://www.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,,3-975_2397875,00.html
Sorry for the Afrikaans, the other articles are in the Cape times and you need to be a subscriber.
What is wrong with the Afrikaans? The best academics in this country is from the Afrikaans section of our community.
In their minds they can say it is about the unity of the ANC, but Mantashe explicitly connects unity with Zuma’s case:
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2397000,00.html
——————————————————————————
“The biggest worry for us is the question of the reversal of the possible closure of that chapter,” Mantashe said.
“That case, in our view, is not in the public or national interest. If the case is pursued, it will continue to be a point of division in the ANC. That’s the main issue,” he said.
——————————————————————————
So the Zuma case is the cause of division, and it needs to be squashed. Step 1 get rid of the president.
Some commentators seem to suggest that the ANC is following Malema’s lead, but I find it a bit of a stretch and maybe the real reason for some is a jab of ridicule. I think Malema just runs his mouth on what he has been privy to.
z, there’s nothing to respond to here. Everyone seems so out of their depth with the situation they are wasting their time insulting each other.
Thabo strikes back indeed. And, I think he has a strong argument because Nicholson J clearly went overboard with his so-called obiter dicta. Look, I am not a fan of Thabo Mbeki (Khosi can testify to that), but I do not think that the rebuke was called for. The only (wrong) political interference with the Zuma prosecution was when Bulelani Ngcuka (at the insistence of Penuel Maduna) decided not to prosecute Zuma with Shaik. This is where the Nicholson judgment was side-tracked. bedcause there was a political intereference, so he held, Zuma has a right to be informed if the political thinking about his prosecution had changed. This led him to infer that there was again political intereference, exactly what the Friends of JZ have been saying without any grounds therefor, and it kind of leaves one with the impression that Nicholson was partisan to Zuma’s case. What he did not investigate, is whether, on the facts available to the NPA, Zuma should (regardless of the wrong, ‘political’, decision not to charge hime when a prima facie case existed) be prosecuted for the NPA to fulfil its constitutional duty. Had he investigated this, I think, it would have been unnecessary to go into the susequent political developments concerniong JZ’s dismissal as deputy President and the developments at Polokwane. In such a case, he could only have asked the question whether a ‘reasonable’ NDPP would have decided to prosecute on the facts available or not. If, yes, then it would be irrelevant whether JZ has had any opportunity to make a representation. If, no, however, then surely one would expect the NPA to have informed JZ of its intentions, give him a chance to make representations, and then decide whether it would be wise (politically and legally) to prosecute or not. In other words, if there is a clear cut case, the prosecution should continue, regardless of the political developments of the past few months (and years), because law and politics need to be kept seperate.
“I think Malema just runs his mouth on what he has been privy to.”
Undoubtably. And one of these days they are not going to be able to keep him quiet.
All – the next week or so I’ll be lazing around in and travelling through Kruger NP, and I won’t respond to any of the posts on this Blog – but, I’ll be back!
i rarely post but i read on a daily basis to inform my views. our new poster has said absolutely nothing to inform anyone’s views and has wasted a small, albeit valuable, chunk of my morning. i suppose best to just avoid in future. it will be interesting if we do have some really fiery journalists to pin people down on some serious issues. then again, as indicated by Sne, the more controversial and ridiculous the statement, the more likely it is to receive attention.
And z, no, the new President can only Pardon someone who has been found guilty.
Mpho
Thanks. That’s interesting, so he would have to first be found guilty. So the only real option is to get the NPA to withdraw, since him first being found guilty would be a messy story.
Some news reports claim that Malema threatened youth mobilisation if the NEC does not go through with the recall, but I am reluctant to make too much of reports unless a named person is quoted.
Enjoy the trip Mr. Ratticus
I will – hold the Fort!
Mouse
Do you have an extra ticket? (:
Enjoy!
Zimification!
Manual to resign.
Zimification!
Manual to resign.
Zimification!
Manuel to resign.
Andrea Becker asked somebody must name 3 things that black people EVENTED (her word/spelling). Well, here goes – the press conf at Luthuli House the other day, Chiefs vs. Pirates last year, that cocktail party at parliament the other day. All were very successfull events I am told.
Pierre – I’ve been reading Constitutionally Speaking on and off for quite a while now and must admit: you’re good at what you’re doing
Ignore Becker. Sy klink seksueel gefrustreerd.
Keep up the good work. Ek sit jou by my blogroll.