Comments on: Nationalisation of the Reserve Bank? http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/ This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos Tue, 22 May 2012 10:41:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: matenzhe siphiwe http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-65173 matenzhe siphiwe Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:49:54 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-65173 so if anyone could help, what will nationalisation mean to the SARB and to the South African economy focusing on its monetary policy? so if anyone could help, what will nationalisation mean to the SARB and to the South African economy focusing on its monetary policy?

]]> By: GG http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-63089 GG Thu, 08 Mar 2012 17:23:30 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-63089 My question. If you only make 10c per share, why would you invest in the SARB. The only reason would be to control it as it is a bad investment. Why is the shareholders kept secret if there is nothing to hide? If the shareholders have 7 members in their pocket they only need to convince 2 more to have the majority vote. Makes you think why these shareholders will invest in such a bad investment. 10 000 shares will give you a R1000 dividend on your R110 000 investment. That is less than 1% return. Alternative motives. Make it unatractive to the public so they can cotrol it. My question. If you only make 10c per share, why would you invest in the SARB. The only reason would be to control it as it is a bad investment.
Why is the shareholders kept secret if there is nothing to hide?

If the shareholders have 7 members in their pocket they only need to convince 2 more to have the majority vote.

Makes you think why these shareholders will invest in such a bad investment. 10 000 shares will give you a R1000 dividend on your R110 000 investment. That is less than 1% return.

Alternative motives. Make it unatractive to the public so they can cotrol it.

]]> By: Robduke http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-53738 Robduke Tue, 11 Oct 2011 09:00:53 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-53738 Vernon, I've suspected the same thing for a while. It seems people don't realize they are being taken for a ride - getting emotional and focussing on the wrong is issues is exactly what the annonimous banking cartels that run the privately owned reserve banks around the world want. People need to do their home work and stop shooting from the hip. The average American thinks the FED is a government institution and the same for the Brits who don't realize The Bank of England is privatey owned. As South Africans we seem to be in the dark as to what is really happening and who is really running the country (IT IS NOT THE ANC WHERE IT MATTERS!) NOTE THE AMERICAN FED STORY - THESE ARE THE SAME FACELESS SARB SHAREHOLDERS : The privately owned Federal Reserve Bank (The Fed) is privately owned by a group of primarily foreign bankers. In 1913, Congress sank America into eternal debt by giving the power to issue currency and control the American economic system to the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. Who are the owners or chief shareholders of the privately owned Federal Reserve? Originally, there were reportedly 203,053 shares of privately owned Federal Reserve stock, of which approximately 65% were owned by foreigners and approximately 35%(72,000 shares) were: 1. Rockefellers' National City Bank = 30,000 shares 2. Chase National = 6,000 shares (currently Chase Manhattan and owned by David Rockefeller) 3. The National Bank of Commerce = 21,000 shares (now known as Morgan Guaranty Trust) 4. Morgans' First national Bank = 15,000 shares Interestingly, the total shares owned by Rockefellers interests equal 36,000 shares and the total of Morgans' equals 36,000 shares. Although the privately owned Federal Reserve Act of 1913 provided the names of the owner banks be kept a secret, R.E. McMaster, publisher of the newsletter" The Reaper" discovered, through confidential Swiss banking connections, that the following banks have controlling interest in the privately owned Federal Reserve 1. Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin 2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris 3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy 4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam 5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York 6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York 7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York 8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By Rockefellers) Vernon, I’ve suspected the same thing for a while. It seems people don’t realize they are being taken for a ride – getting emotional and focussing on the wrong is issues is exactly what the annonimous banking cartels that run the privately owned reserve banks around the world want. People need to do their home work and stop shooting from the hip. The average American thinks the FED is a government institution and the same for the Brits who don’t realize The Bank of England is privatey owned. As South Africans we seem to be in the dark as to what is really happening and who is really running the country (IT IS NOT THE ANC WHERE IT MATTERS!)
NOTE THE AMERICAN FED STORY – THESE ARE THE SAME FACELESS SARB SHAREHOLDERS :
The privately owned Federal Reserve Bank (The Fed) is privately owned by a group
of primarily foreign bankers. In 1913, Congress sank America into eternal
debt by giving the power to issue currency and control the American economic
system to the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. Who are the owners or
chief shareholders of the privately owned Federal Reserve? Originally,
there were reportedly 203,053 shares of privately owned Federal Reserve
stock, of which approximately 65% were owned by foreigners and approximately
35%(72,000 shares) were:
1. Rockefellers’ National City Bank = 30,000 shares
2. Chase National = 6,000 shares (currently Chase Manhattan and owned by
David Rockefeller)
3. The National Bank of Commerce = 21,000 shares (now known as Morgan
Guaranty Trust)
4. Morgans’ First national Bank = 15,000 shares
Interestingly, the total shares owned by Rockefellers interests equal
36,000 shares and the total of Morgans’ equals 36,000 shares.
Although the privately owned Federal Reserve Act of 1913 provided the names
of the owner banks be kept a secret, R.E. McMaster, publisher of the
newsletter” The Reaper” discovered, through confidential Swiss banking
connections, that the following banks have controlling interest in the
privately owned Federal Reserve
1. Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By Rockefellers)

]]> By: Vernon Baumann http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-53044 Vernon Baumann Tue, 27 Sep 2011 08:04:32 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-53044 It is not the private ownership of the SARB that bothers me. It is firstly, that the identities of shareholders are secret. How can anyone possibly justify this when the entire economic well-being of South Africa hinges upon this bank? Who exactly are these shareholders? And why the secrecy? However, the point that disturbs me the most is the following (and please correct me, I have only the vaguest understanding of the underlying economics) Is it true that the SARB issues money to the government with interest? In other words, does the SA government "pay" the SARB to issue notes? Basically, with every rand issued, the SA government incurs debt ... owed to the SARB. Is this true? I believe this is the case with the Federal Reserve in the US. Apparently, JFK halted this practice briefly during the sixties and began issuing interest and debt-free dollars ... until his assassinaion of course. I would really appreciate a response to this query, as I regard this as a worrying possibility. It is not the private ownership of the SARB that bothers me. It is firstly, that the identities of shareholders are secret. How can anyone possibly justify this when the entire economic well-being of South Africa hinges upon this bank? Who exactly are these shareholders? And why the secrecy?
However, the point that disturbs me the most is the following (and please correct me, I have only the vaguest understanding of the underlying economics) Is it true that the SARB issues money to the government with interest? In other words, does the SA government “pay” the SARB to issue notes? Basically, with every rand issued, the SA government incurs debt … owed to the SARB. Is this true?
I believe this is the case with the Federal Reserve in the US. Apparently, JFK halted this practice briefly during the sixties and began issuing interest and debt-free dollars … until his assassinaion of course.
I would really appreciate a response to this query, as I regard this as a worrying possibility.

]]> By: NKATEKO THEO MABALE http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-44015 NKATEKO THEO MABALE Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:16:10 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-44015 The SARB is the central bank of the country,it is one of less than five central banks in private hands in the world,this bank is govern by the act 90 /1989 and reserve bank amendment act. so what will nationalization mean to the bank and the RSA economy focusing on its monetary policy. ANSWER PLZ The SARB is the central bank of the country,it is one of less than five central banks in private hands in the world,this bank is govern by the act 90 /1989 and reserve bank amendment act. so what will nationalization mean to the bank and the RSA economy focusing on its monetary policy. ANSWER PLZ

]]> By: NKATEKO THEO MABALE http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-44013 NKATEKO THEO MABALE Tue, 15 Mar 2011 12:10:55 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-44013 The SARB is the central bank of the country,it is one of less than five central banks in private hands in the world,this bank is govern by the act 90 /1989 and reserve bank amendment act. so what will nationalization mean to the bank and the RSA economy focusing on its monetary policy The SARB is the central bank of the country,it is one of less than five central banks in private hands in the world,this bank is govern by the act 90 /1989 and reserve bank amendment act. so what will nationalization mean to the bank and the RSA economy focusing on its monetary policy

]]> By: Gwebecimele http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-28749 Gwebecimele Mon, 03 May 2010 12:52:13 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-28749 These shareholders must negotiate with President Malema. http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295043?oid=484308&sn=2009+Detail&pid=287226 These shareholders must negotiate with President Malema.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295043?oid=484308&sn=2009+Detail&pid=287226

]]> By: donald mandla mashika http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-27881 donald mandla mashika Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:26:35 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-27881 n/a n/a

]]> By: Tom Nevin http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-25561 Tom Nevin Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:28:37 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-25561 I love this blog - full of erudite and enlightening observation, much of it humorous, most of it thoughtful. But aren't contributors missing the point? The SARB is already nationalised, even though it is ostensibly in private hands and for the blessed 600 who hold the shares, a snug and steady stipend that will roll in for life. It always makes me smile when Bank governors and government ministers shrilly proclaim the SARB's "independence" whilst there, hiding in plain site in the wings, is the finance minister of the day flashing cue cards at the players on the fiscal stage. What will help the Bank, though, will be a healthy measure of honesty, and a gang of earnest folk to shovel out the bulldust, pull down the veils of secrecy and install a thought process that tackles this country's financial problems creatively, and not simply shove up the interest rate when inflation strays out of its arbitrarily applied target bracket, and then go back to sleep. There are other ways of skinning the inflation cat. I think King would agree that it's time the SARB shareholders insisted that the Bank's management did an honest day's work. I love this blog – full of erudite and enlightening observation, much of it humorous, most of it thoughtful. But aren’t contributors missing the point? The SARB is already nationalised, even though it is ostensibly in private hands and for the blessed 600 who hold the shares, a snug and steady stipend that will roll in for life. It always makes me smile when Bank governors and government ministers shrilly proclaim the SARB’s “independence” whilst there, hiding in plain site in the wings, is the finance minister of the day flashing cue cards at the players on the fiscal stage. What will help the Bank, though, will be a healthy measure of honesty, and a gang of earnest folk to shovel out the bulldust, pull down the veils of secrecy and install a thought process that tackles this country’s financial problems creatively, and not simply shove up the interest rate when inflation strays out of its arbitrarily applied target bracket, and then go back to sleep. There are other ways of skinning the inflation cat. I think King would agree that it’s time the SARB shareholders insisted that the Bank’s management did an honest day’s work.

]]> By: Gwebecimele http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/nationalisation-of-the-reserve-bank/#comment-24877 Gwebecimele Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:00:30 +0000 http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1896#comment-24877 Now that some have decided that everything that is run by government fails they can start a campaign and privatise SARS, Eskom, Water, Oxygen etc. Now that some have decided that everything that is run by government fails they can start a campaign and privatise SARS, Eskom, Water, Oxygen etc.

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