If a City Press report over the weekend is correct and if it is indeed true that the Department of Public Works has approved a whopping R203-million budget for the hush-hush revamp of President Jacob Zuma’s private Nkandla homestead, one must ask why public funds are being used to enrich our president and to help pay for his lavish lifestyle. Is it legal for the president to use public funds to upgrade his private residence? Will the Hawks be investigating what appears to be the criminal misuse of public funds, and if not, why not?
According to City Press, the Department of Public Works approved the budget in March last year, despite earlier claims by the department that Zuma was funding the project from his own pocket. According to official departmental documentation, the president will “only” pay R10.6 million of this cost himself. (How our president will be able to afford to pay the R10 million, given that he has only earned about R6 million since becoming president, is another question the Hawks might want to look into.) The work – which allegedly includes the building of a helipad, underground bunkers and fencing around the entire complex – was started by contractors in 2010.
The presidency and public works have declined to comment on the project, which is titled Prestige Project A, citing security concerns. The department’s acting director-general, Mandisa Fatyela-Lindie, declined to comment on the amount that was spent because Nkandla was a national key point. “As such, information related to the national key point is protected in terms of the National Key Point Act,” she claimed.
The starting point for any legal evaluation of this alleged splurge of public funds to improve the private residence of our president must be the Executive Members Ethics Act and the Code adopted to give effect to it, which binds all Cabinet members, including the president.
The Act and the Code prohibit the president from acting in a way that is inconsistent with his office, using his position to enrich himself, or acting in a way that may compromise the credibility or integrity of his office or of the government. The Code further prohibits the president from making improper use of any allowance or payment properly made to him, or to disregard the administrative rules which apply to him.
It is clear that the spending of more than R200 million on an upgrade to the private home of President Zuma would be in clear breach of these obligations and would therefore be unlawful. If the presidency fails to put a stop to this immediately, we will know that the person who took bribes from Schabir Shaik has not become any more ethical since becoming president of the country.
The source of administrative rules is the (in)famous Ministerial Handbook, which (believe it or not) does prohibit the state from paying for the renovation of the private residences of cabinet members – even when used as official residences. Chapter 4 of the Ministerial Handbook states that members of the cabinet “are responsible for all costs related to the procurement, upkeep and maintenance of private residences used for official purposes”.
The Ministerial Handbook – bizarrely claimed to be a classified document but widely available on the internet – does allow for part of the cost of security arrangements at the private houses of “Public Office Bearers” to be carried by the state. However, in Annexure E to the Handbook – adopted by Cabinet on 11 June 2003 – the following rules are set out for the funding of security measures at the private residence of the president or other Cabinet members:
The Minister of Public Works may approve only a State contribution of a non-recoverable maximum amount of R100,000, or the total cost of security measures not exceeding R100,000. Should the cost of the security measures be more than R100,000, the difference shall be borne by the Public Office Bearer. The State’s contribution of R100,000 should be reviewed every five years to match with the changing costs for security systems.
The president is clearly a Public Office Bearer. Nkandla is clearly his private home which, in addition to his two official residences, he sometimes uses as an official residence. Any amount above R100,000 spent on any upgrades at Nkandla (even for security-related reasons) are therefore not spent in accordance with the provisions of the Ministerial Handbook and must be deemed unlawful.
In the light of the above, one could be forgiven for describing the budgeting of more than R200 million of public funds (which could have been spent on textbooks or houses) for the secret upgrading of the president’s private home, as the blatant looting of public funds by a president who lacks even the most basic sense of right and wrong.
It is true that the National Key Points Act (a piece legislation adopted at the height of Apartheid in 1980) provides for the use of public funds to protect so called national key points. But such expenditure can only be paid from the Special Account for the Safeguarding of National Key Points and only on instructions of the Minister of Defence. This was clearly not done in this case, which means the Key Points Act is not applicable here.
No wonder the government is trying to hide details about the unlawful expenditure by invoking a piece of draconian Apartheid legislation on national key points. But this is unfortunately also nonsense. Even the Key Points Act does not entitle the government to avoid accountability for the spending of more than R200 million on upgrading of the private residence of the president.
It is true that section 10(1)(c) of the Act prohibits anyone from providing any information relating to security measures in respect of a key point unless he or she is legally obliged to do so. But in this case, the unlawful spending of more than R200 million on upgrades on the private home of the president does not relate to security measures at his home.
While the government can decline to provide detailed information of the security measures taken at Nkandla and need not tell us, say, how many guards are on duty there or what other legal measures are in place to protect the president, they cannot invoke the National Key Points Act to try and hide the unlawful expenditure on the upgrading of his private house through the looting of public funds.
In a constitutional democracy, legislation can never be used to hide unlawful conduct, maladministration or corruption, and neither can it be used to try and escape from accountability for the spending of public funds. The attempt by the acting Director General to do so is shameful and displays a contempt for all 50 million South African citizens who are footing this bill through their payment of various taxes.
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It is extremely difficult to be hopeful in a society where the very people that are supposed to lead are enriching themselves at the expense of the poor.
Our leaders, kings and CEO deserve to live in mansions paid for by the majority. This 1% are showing us what life can be if you happen to be fortunate.
Would the upgrade be deemed taxable income?
If so will SARS be as enthusiastic to go after the Bunker Guy as they were with Juju?
All kudos to Pierre de Vos for exposing the rot that starts at the top.
What value does Jacob Zuma pay rates on. The R2million Nkandla was originally valued at? +R65million for the upgrade… now R200million? Is he going to pay rates on R202million rand?
Indeed, thanks for writing this. Maybe Nkandla will be the new Luthuli House, now that the ANC has been reduced to an ethnic interest group?
Truly sad, bet if the sherrif goes there to deliver an interdict, he will be shot, by the mafia man, Zuma’s, gansters and then he’ll laugh singning: “I shot the sheriff, but I did not kill the deputy” and then we’ll all laugh, because it’s funny. America was very lucky during the prohibition time to get Al Capone to face justice, but I’m afraid our untouchables have learnt from the best of the best and every system is in place to antagonise any criticism from well, racists, whose opinion all 50 million knows does not count and that sums up just about all people who has a problem with this illegal expenditures.
Black ANC voters don’t seem to mind, because either they don’t pay taxes and live off subsidies and grants or they are unionised and get brainwashed by their various unions, fact is the ANC rules and it is indeed a bitter pill to swallow in the light of these absurdities. Man if only I could dance like that.
I knew this couldn’t be legal. There is a distinction between Zuma the private citizen and Zuma the president, but in SA this line seems to be blurred more and more. Thanks for your take on it Pierre. Surely this must be investigated by the public prosecutor or police.
Suka Prof!!!
Doesn’t the Queen of England live in a Palace worth far more than our President’s humble abode. I’ve yet to hear Britons complain about that, you know why? cause they respect and love their leaders, yep “respect” and “love” Prof. Is that too much to ask, respecting the outcome of a democratic process.
STOP HATIN’ ON ZUMA Pdv, thats a bad look Prof, go out and get your hustle on and you wont have time to hate. Haters dissin Zuma for getting his grind on.
I have an idea. What dont you haters initiate a private prosecution instead of whining ( oh the country has gone to the dogs ).
Sickening and so predictable. As was the ringing endorsement given in a brief radio interview by one of Malema’s supporters during a street demo outside the court – “we support him because he is honest”or words to that effect.
Mhlongo
October 1, 2012 at 13:10 pm
LOL, he who wins the election may steal the money!
First time to hear that version of democracy.
If it wasn’t so sad it would have been really funny.
Hey Mhlongo – I understand, Nkandla is being prepared as a tourist attraction. Millions will flock to view the wastage of public funds and generate income for the country. How wise our great leader is – he has learned from the British monarchy. Perhaps we should insist on a monarchy here too – Zuma is the perfect starting point, he has reams of descendants to fill his ample void for years to come…
Democratrophy.
Coin.
Gentlemen ( Chris , Cicero and Spoiler ) please note my advice on the private prosecution. Start acting haters and stop complaining.
I’ll be happy to act for you.
@Mhlongo
Are you honestly attempting to compare a democratically-elected public office bearer to a hereditary monarch?
Even if your comparison was a fair one, two countries can have vastly different norms, values and laws. Pointing to (dis)similar examples from other countries hardly validates it occurring in South Africa.
Zuma’s position is placed well into perspective. What really pussis me off is how well he performs when talking about wasteful expenditure and how serious he was to deal with people like the late Sicelo Sicheka.
I hope the majority will realise that ” you can fool some people sometimes, but you can’t fool all the people all the time”.
@Mhlongo
In the English monarchy it used to be customary to behead one’s wife before marrying the next one. Is Zuma also going to import these kind of customs or his he more selective about his cultural decisions?
The current situation in South Africa is messed up, on the one side a President who seems to believe that adding to his harem is the key goal of his job while his everexpanding prole loots everything. On the other side a fat rabble-rouser with a penchant for bribery and a president-in-waiting who is smart enough to let his girlfriend do the looting.
Every country gets the politicans it deserves but why for so long.
The Nkandla upgrade has been going on for years. What about the rumoured R1bn project in the town itself by Chinese firms? Who’s paying that bill?
JZ, as charming as he is, is hopelessly corrupt. His wives and kids have about 1000 directorships each and earn money for nothing because of their proximity to power.
Remember when you vote ANC what you are really voting for…
Mhlongo
The British monarchy owns most of Britain and they are paid a staggering amount of rent, most of which goes into public coffers and they get an allowance back.
If Zuma could build something as pleasing on the eye as Buckingham Palace maybe he’ll even get some tourists, but I would bet its more Soviet concrete bunker style stuff.
Is Jacob Zuma now planning to be President for Life?
And why does he feel the need for an “underground bunker”? Just because Adolf Hitler had one?
Mhlongo
October 1, 2012 at 13:10 pm
Well said Mhlongo!
If the Queen of England can help herself from the state coffers, so too can Zuma.
And what about the apartheid era rulers, nobody moaned about them, eh.
Michelle Obama went on a holiday to Spain, these right-wing, counter-revolutionary reactionaries have nothing to say about that.
But R200 million for Zuma and they got a shit-load to moan about – it’s less than SAA paid Coleman Andrews for selling off our national fleet anyway.
These okes are just jealous cos the UN appointed Zuma as the Education adviser to the whole of the world and Bob is the Tourism dude.
Let Zuma build his bunker in Nkandla and enjoy his harem in privacy.
Why should our President not enrich himself from the national kitty – it’s not like it’s harming anyone!
What about those who profit/Bonuses on the sweat and blood of these miners and live in mansions?
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-special-investigations/financially-illiterate-miners-debt-shocker-fraud-a
To me the comparison with Versailles just does not stand. How about Disney Nkandla?
Er, Princess, can you please answer the damn phone?
Your President is trying to call you!
“But such expenditure can only be paid from the Special Account for the Safeguarding of National Key Points and only on instructions of the Minister of Defence.”
Mhlongo, you seem to conflate different things. Insisting that the President does not enrich himself unlawfully from public funds has little to do with my personal feelings about the President. Whether I hated or loved Zuma, whether I voted for him or not, whether I respected him or not, this would all be irrelevant to the legal principle which states that a democratically elected official and servant of the people are not allowed top enrich himself at the expense of taxpayers. Zuma is elected President for 5 years. He is supposed to serve the voters. He is not entitled to use public funds to enrich himself by making us pay for his private home. He is also not above the law because he was elected by 4400 people at Polokwane to lead the majority party.
He has two official residences whose upkeep us voters and taxpayers happily pay for. We also pay him a handsome salary. Conniving to use public funds to upgrade his private home is against the law and is akin to theft. This kind of behaviour is called kleptocracy.
@Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
October 1, 2012 at 11:25 am
If so will SARS be as enthusiastic to go after the Bunker Guy as they were with Juju?
What a new name ” Bunker Guy”. You earn a medal☺
Mhlongo
October 1, 2012 at 14:18 pm
Wow, you love making jokes né.
Lisbeth
October 1, 2012 at 15:40 pm
Hey Lisbeth,
“And why does he feel the need for an “underground bunker”?”
Are you implying that our president has gone BUNKERS????
Our leadership never fails to amaze me, in a country where we have so many people struggling to simply make it, our president can afford to live a lavish lifestyle with his army of wives. Then again to go spend millions on only his homestead while in other parts of Nkandla there is no infrastructure, no proper transport system, some places do not have lights… yet we have the construction of “Zumaville”, our government once again manages to spit in the face of the poor.
@ Mhlongo is right.
Except I am not sure why he has to reach for an example in Buckingham. What about our very own “Queen of the South West”? She lives in a lavish estate and has, some say, added “facilities” above and beyond anything enjoyed by Marie Antionette… And does Pierre complain about that. I don’t THINK so!
These reports about muntu looting the ‘state coffers’ are getting so boring.
“Dog bites man” is not news. Yes “man bites dog” would be news.
A study done in Nigeria, showed that the citizens didn’t particularly
object to “what the colonialists call corruption”. The Nigerians found it
quiet OK and natural, and were concentrating on how to get in on the game
themselves, rather than to stop the game.
Their view is completely rational in the context of a traditional hunter
gatherer point of view. Sporadic actions to “clean up corruption” are
merely sops for the Western donors.
OMG. Maverick is echoing my very words!
Yes, have y’all forgotten COPE?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 1, 2012 at 20:31 pm
Hey Dworky,
Will the people of Nkandla soon be eating cake?
p.s. Do tell us again about the “table cloth being blown of the mountain” by the pretty but evil stepmother. It was an inspiring modern proverb.
It is obvious none of those commenting have been watching Pres. Obiang explain to the sickening pinko Amanpour how – in Africa – leaders with charisma interpret the will of the people and merely do their bidding!
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
@Mhlongo’s arguments are illogical and deserve to be ignored; yet they persist.
It is an African predisposition to genuflect to the ‘Big Man’ no matter how corrupt, devious, cruel and dumb.
““Developing that area does not trouble me, it makes me very proud.”
Democratic Alliance parliamentary leader Lindiwe Mazibuko asked how the president could justify spending money in an area “just 3.2km from your homestead” when other impoverished parts of KwaZulu-Natal were left without basic services.
She said that 100km away villages such as Ebizimali and Eqhudeni lacked water and electricity.
Zuma responded by naming 23 poor districts nationwide that had been identified by the government as recipients of upliftment programmes.”
http://www.citypress.co.za/Politics/News/Zuma-defends-Nkandla-development-20120913-2
Just to inject some balance into this shameless typical anti-ANC bullshit propaganda. So the question is really. given the incomprehensible jealousy and sexual frustration involved.
When last did Professor Pierre De Vos get laid by a 100% Zulu boy?
This ones for you Fassbinder :
SWEET FUCKALL WILL HAPPEN
John Roberts
October 1, 2012 at 21:45 pm
Hey JR,
“SWEET FUCKALL WILL HAPPEN”
Got news for you!
SWEET FUCKALL HAS HAPPENED!!!!!!!
@OB
A point deduction for hitting below the belt.
@Mhlongo
I’d tell you to pick up a book, but alas, the ash…
Pierre De Vos
October 1, 2012 at 16:26 pm
“Whether I hated or loved Zuma, whether I voted for him or not, whether I respected him or not, this would all be irrelevant to the legal principle which states that a democratically elected official and servant of the people are not allowed top enrich himself at the expense of taxpayers.”
But he is not enriching “himself”. He is “enriching” – lets just call it “service delivery”, one of the poorest rural areas in South Africa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nkandla
“It is the home town of the current President of South Africa, Jacob Zuma. Zuma was joined by Nelson Mandela to open Mnyakanya High School in 2004.[2]Nkandla is mainly a rural area and is on the top five of the poorest places in KZN. Zulu’s dominate the region.”
Cde Chris Hani lived in Boksburg. Right next to poor Afrikaners/Coloureds/Indians/Blacks and other whitish working class scum.
I would be very happy if Cde Hani invested more monies into Boksburg, instead of Malema’s polished Sandton or PdV’s already plush Anglo sponsored offices at UCT.
Viva Cde Zuma. Viva!
LOL – Mac Maharaj does not trust British PM Cameron in Zuma’s harem. Old Mac got cameron mixed up with Bill Clinton!
“What do you do when President Obama or an African head of state visits him?” he said. “You can’t send them to a hotel.
“Where do Prime Minister Cameron’s security staff stay when he goes to his private house?
“President Zuma’s medical and security staff are inside that complex but you can’t put them in the same house as his family.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/southafrica/9579538/Jacob-Zumas-15m-home-upgrades-prompt-calls-for-inquiry.html
And for the cynics, Karima Brown is NOT after Jimmy Manyi’s old job ad cabinet spokesperson!
Karima Brown, a political commentator, said the unconfirmed reports were another example of how Mr Zuma was targeted by the media.
“Jacob Zuma has never been an easy fit for South Africa’s chattering classes,” she said. “His existence challenges the notion of what it means to be black and middle-class in South Africa and they will take any opportunity to attack him.” – PdV take note!
Rather disgusting black kugel if ever there was one.
http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2031/6faf50baa47d45e5bd9dc45ba3f80500.jpg
“We offer jobs, ANC offers Zumaville – DA
2012-08-04 14:21
The DA offered South Africans jobs while the ANC offered ‘Zumaville,’ parliamentary leader Lindiwe Mazibuko said.
“How can Zuma explain spending so much money on a single project while many people across the province find themselves without even the most basic services?”
Mazibuko said today in a speech prepared for delivery.
She was speaking in Kokstad in KwaZulu-Natal about the Democratic Alliance’s recently launched Plan for Growth and Jobs.
According to a report yesterday, government was planning to build a new R2 billion town in Zuma’s home village of Nkandla. The town was dubbed ‘Zumaville’.
Government would reportedly have to direct more than R1 billion of taxpayers’ money into the development while the other R1 billion would be raised from the private sector.
Mazibuko said Zuma’s Nkandla homestead was also being turned into a palace with underground tunnels to ensure his safety.
“The only thing Zuma should be afraid of is the high level of unemployment keeping so many people in KwaZulu-Natal in extreme poverty.”
Mazibuko said the department of public works was spending R36 million on Nkandla but “was slow” to help at Kokstad’s local hospital. “
Luister, dwis, wat is ‘disgusting’ om haar? Haar lyf?
Moenie kyk nie.
http://www.newstatesman.com/africa/2008/10/houphouet-boigny-yamoussoukro
The president, his church and the crocodiles
By Xan Rice Published 23 October 2008
Jungle pressed against narrow road as we drove north. Trucks carrying thick hardwood logs hurtled towards us. The only suggestion of life beyond the thick green walls of vegetation was the occasional puff of smoke in the distance or a lone roadside vendor hawking her forest fruits: bananas, avocados, mangoes. We were heading north towards Yamoussoukro, which is about 240 kilometres from the former capital, Abidjan, on the southern coast, with its high-rise buildings, flashing neon signs and human mass.
Yamoussoukro is the birthplace of Côte d’Ivoire’s founding president, Félix Houphouët-Boigny, and in 1983, in an act of outlandish confidence, he decided to make his birthplace the new capital, replacing Abidjan. At the time, Yamoussoukro was little more than an agricultural village of 15,000 people, and the man the French called “the Sage of Africa” was, by family heritage, its chief.
Houphouët-Boigny was not one for small measures. As surely as he had filled the artificial lake in the grounds of his Yamoussoukro palace with crocodiles, he ordered the construction of monuments, mostly to himself. There was the six-lane highway and the five-star Hôtel Président, the eponymous grandes écoles and marble-floored hilltop convention centre. The 3,000-metre airport runway was one of only two in Africa long enough to land a Concorde. (The other was in Mobutu Sese Seko’s ancestral home of Gbadolité, the “Versailles in the Jungle” in the northern Democratic Republic of Congo.) In a country where just a third of the people are Christian, Houphouët-Boigny ordered the construction of the world’s largest church, the Basilica of Our Lady of Peace, in Yamoussoukro. Bigger even than St Peter’s Basilica in Rome, it stands 158 metres high and the nave can seat 7,000 people, with standing room for a further 11,000. Furnished with Italian-built, air-conditioned pews, it cost $300m (£175m) to build in the late 1980s
Snip
Brett Nortje
October 1, 2012 at 23:01 pm
“Luister, dwis, wat is ‘disgusting’ om haar? Haar lyf?”
Nothing disgusting really, she could even have been your mother as she remind me a little bit of this
http://www.thenationalstudent.com/articleImages/Turkish_rescuers_retrieve_sex_doll.jpg
Brannewyn ken nie brieke nie, ne?
“We are inspired by presidents Mandela and Mbeki because when they led, they understood that they were leading a nation,” Lamola said. “It cannot be that because a president comes from a certain village, that village should now be turned into a little city.
“You cannot go to Mvezo (Mbeki’s home) or Qunu (Mandela’s village) and say that a president comes from here because Mandela and Mbeki understood that there needed to be national development first.”
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/06/22/ancyl-blasts-nkandla-spend
An that is no lie folks. In fact cde’s Madiba and Thabo’s “home villages” are still trapped in a perpetual cycle of abject poverty [like most of SA], they could not give a fuck about uplifting even their very own people after moving to Sandton, to join Mr. Malema, Mr. Lamola and Miss Mazibuko. Despising their African roots and betraying their culture they mutate into one of two extremes – militant “revolutionaries” or “whitish” servants. The guilt is overwhelming.
The reluctant coconut syndrome.
The president is innocent until proven guilty. Pierre de Vos the brave and fierce anti-apartheid activist has found him guilty after hearing about a newspaper article written by persons who harbour known ill-feelings to Zuma.
Viva Zuma ! Viva ! Amandla Nkandla !
Ozoneblue, you are confusing two totally separate issues:
One is the issue of the socalled Zumaville, the planned upgrade of the town/village of Nkandla to the tone of some SAR 800 mio (or is it 1 billion?). This was last weeks (or months) news and is not the subject of Pierre de Vos’ blog.
The other is the SAR 200 million that according to City Press will be used to upgrade not the village of Nkandla but Zuma’s private home in Nkandla. This is the subject of Pierre de Vos’ blog.
Consequently, your rantings about the loveliness of Zuma supporting rural development are totally misplaced.
Ricky
October 2, 2012 at 8:28 am
Ricky,
“Ozoneblue, you are confusing two totally separate issues:”
You’re wrong on that.
But valiant attempt at trying to rescue Ozone Boy from the depths of intellectual depravity – Prof MO will be so pleased!
Cmd Comrade
October 2, 2012 at 7:41 am
Lol Cde Cmd Comrade!
“The president is innocent until proven guilty.”
Did you hear that Cheryl Cwele’s sentence has been INCREASED from 12 to 20 years?
Neat trick by the SCA, né.
8 OUT OF 10.
These don’t matter anymore on our way to Mangaung.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/10/02/a-g-delivers-new-blow-to-angie
Here is another interesting article on presidential palaces for the enjoyment of Cde OBS who appears to be a socialist this week:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1996-11-05/news/9611040553_1_jean-bedel-bokassa-cannibalism-france
Jean-bedel Bokassa
OTHER NEWS TO NOTE – DEATHS
November 5, 1996
Bokassa, one of Africa’s most ruthless dictators who was accused
of slaughtering and eating some of his critics, died of a heart
attack Sunday in Bangui, Central African Republic. He was 75.
Bokassa, who ruled as self-proclaimed ”emperor” from 1966 to
1979, had been in poor health since collapsing in 1995 from a
brain hemorrhage. The army lieutenant colonel’s 13-year rule
began when he seized power in 1966, six years after the country
gained independence from France. Bokassa used the country’s
resources – particularly diamonds – to increase his fortune while
the living standard of his 3.4 million subjects stagnated. France
backed Bokassa for years, in part because of its interest in the
country’s uranium trade. But he was ousted by French troops in
1979 after 100 schoolchildren were slaughtered for complaining
about their school uniforms. Bokassa spent the next seven years
in exile in France and the Ivory Coast and expected a warm
welcome when he returned in 1987. Instead, he was tried on
charges of murder, torture and cannibalism. Prosecutors claimed
Bokassa’s palace was filled with evidence of atrocities,
including the frozen body of a schoolteacher hanging on a freezer
hook and mounds of human flesh prepared for roasting. Bokassa was
convicted of murder and sentenced to death, although he was
acquitted of cannibalism charges. The sentence was commuted to 20
years in prison, and he was freed in 1993.
This is absolutely cannon fodder for a true opposition party. Soundbites for communities in Mthatha, Diepsloot, Marikana, etc should be: “Sorry but govt cant build houses for 2500 families because Pres. Zuma wants to expand his R65m house”; “Govt cant upgrade your school because the Zuma wants to build himself a palace”; etc. Unfortunately we dont have this kind of opposition party. This is the type of message a JuJu type opposition should be shouting. Its just sad JuJu comes with all his baggage.
In trying to understand our politics, I’ve realised we miss “Social Democrats”. The ANC is nationalists masquarading as socialists within a democracy – shortened to nationalist democrats (maybe JuJu & his ilk are nationalist socialists – at least thats his message). The DA is liberal democrats. What we miss is social democrats. Hopefully the renewed vigour in civil society will bring such a party to the fore within the near future.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/columnists/2012/09/18/the-anc-is-rapidly-losing-its-right-to-rule-over-the-people
Somehow Zuma is resembling Mswati III more and more by the day.
Yesterday it was commented to me: It took over over 35 years for credible opposition to emerge to the National party. The main reason was that most Afrikaners (and Whites) were lead to believe: If you did not vote NP, you were against the NP. Though many may have disagreed with some of the NP policies and actions, it was too scary a thought that you could be labeled as “Against the NP”, with a hint of “you are against God” since the Afrikaners were Gods chosen people. This phychological whitewashing was strongest in people that were adults by 1961.
This same mentality could be pervasive amongst the majority of South Africans: if you are not for the ANC, you are automatically against the ANC, against democracy, against African leadership, etc. This could help explain why people continue to support the ANC despite the fact that many disagree with the ANC. So despite JZ splurging R200m to upgrade his home, despite the police wasting R2bn on renting overpriced offices, despite poor service delivery, etc, people will still vote for the ANC – it is just unphantomable not to.
Ricky
October 2, 2012 at 8:28 am
“The other is the SAR 200 million that according to City Press will be used to upgrade not the village of Nkandla but Zuma’s private home in Nkandla. This is the subject of Pierre de Vos’ blog.”
I cannot see a problem with a presidential sweet in the rural KZN, much closer rural Africa, to the people, instead of Sandton. It will all depend what Zuma intends to do with it in future – it can become our own Camp David for future generations.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/camp-david/
Oupoot
October 2, 2012 at 9:39 am
“Afrikaners were Gods chosen people.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Bnp72Tft8
I still believe we are. How else did we survive 400 years in Africa, with “democrats” like Bokassa around who eat their own people?
What? Censorship? Sies!
Anyone feel like an article on Mobuto SeseSeko’s presidential palace?
@ozonblue The money is being spent on his personal home. You’re confusing this with the whole Zumaville thing…. dumbass. When Zuma is no longer president he will sell off this joke and keep the money for himself.
is indisputable that OBS is a dumbass it is highly improbable that Zuma will ever be “no longer president”.
The stakes in the game of ’783′ are too high, which is why the NPA are in contempt of the Court Order the DA got against them.
mdk says:
October 2, 2012 at 10:48 am
Yes, unlike the queen of England, who does not and never wll own the palace she lives in. In fact, the queen brings in a substantial nett profit for her country.
Everyone remember that PW Botha’s home ‘Die Anker’ sold at auction for R3,6m?
Height of the property boom, very desirable location?
The ANC is truly revolting.
mdk
October 2, 2012 at 10:48 am
I still don’t understand why the prez has to pay for the above ordinary security profile of his homestead when those risks are a result of his portfolio as president of our country.
“The work – which includes the building of a helipad, underground bunkers and fencing around the entire complex – was started by contractors in 2010.
Documents seen by City Press show that payments of R43 963 005 have been made by public works for the “installation of security measures” by June this year.”
It is not as if KZN rural is a low risk environment with no eminent threats that have to be contemplated.
http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/concern-at-kzn-anc-killings-1.1336838
In fact this is just another load of bullshit.
The propaganda machine kicking into full gear again. Apparently to mislead the public, from the corrupt FOYL and Mr. Malema dealings that are currently being exposed in our courts.
Where is he going to hide when the blacks kill the whites? He’s getting his little nest ready.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_residences_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
“The first governmental spending on property improvements of private presidential residences was at Dwight Eisenhower’s Gettysburg farm, where the Secret Service added three guard posts to a fence.[6] Federal law now allows the president to designate a residence outside of the White House as his temporary offices,[7] so that federal money can be used to provide required facilities.[8]”
“Likewise, Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan often retreated to their California homes during their presidencies. Nixon went to La Casa Pacifica in San Clemente, California. This home was officially dubbed the Western White House, and substantial Federal funds were used to make security, communications, and real estate improvements.[6]”
Big deal. Government spending moneys on securing their heads of state?
What another piss poor effort to create a storm in a teacup.
ozoneblue,
Is there anything that Zuma might do that you will not defend. I get that Zuma generally gets a hard time from the press and that someone should once and a while stick up for him. But on this issue? Are you seriously going out of your way to defend him on this issue? Even quoting from Wikipedia on improvements to US private presidential homes? Really? Sometimes I don’t think you are for real – you are only here to stir like MDF.
Anyone know whether Sheryl Cwele has started serving her time yet?
What? A medical emergency? OBS?
LOL! Watch the ANC flipflop on the POIB again!
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Nkandla-Minister-to-probe-City-Press-20121002
Nkandla: Minister to probe City Press
2012-10-02 12:10
Adriaan Basson, City Press
Johannesburg – Public Works Minister Thulas Nxesi will launch an investigation into how City Press had obtained documentation revealing a R203m budget for upgrades to President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead.
Speaking for the first time after Sunday’s exposé, Nxesi defended the expenditure, but refused to confirm the amount of taxpayers’ money spent on the project.
However, he slammed City Press for publishing details from “top secret” documentation.
‘Breach of the laws’
“The merely unlawful possession of a top secret [document] is a breach of the laws… This therefore calls for an investigation to be launched to determine how the City Press illegally ended up in possession of this document,” Nxesi said.
Two unclassified documents in the possession of City Press show that public works approved a budget of R203m for upgrades to Zuma’s compound.
Another document confirms that R44m had already been spent on “security measures”.
Nxesi defended the expenditure, saying it was in line with the ministerial handbook.
“I would like to state categorically that everything that has been approved and carried out at the private residence of the current president is in line with the ministerial handbook as far as it relates to security arrangements for private residences of the president,” Nxesi said.
“This is also the normal practice for the former presidents of South Africa.”
Zuma’s Nkandla homestead was a national key point.
“Therefore, any information relating to security measures of a national key point is protected from disclosure in terms of the Act, the provisions of the Protection of Information Act, the Minimum Information Security Standards (MISS) and other relevant security prescripts of the State Security Agency.
“You are therefore informed that the department of public works will not be in a position to divulge details of security improvements carried out at the president’s private residence. We are not aware of the amounts referred to in the City Press article … relating to the renovations.”
Upgrades needed
On Monday, Britain’s The Telegraph quoted Zuma’s spokesperson Mac Maharaj online as saying: “What do you do when President Obama or an African head of state visits him? You can’t send them to a hotel.”
Maharaj added: “Where do Prime Minister Cameron’s security staff stay when he goes to his private house? President Zuma’s medical and security staff are inside that complex, but you can’t put them in the same house as his family.”
Zuma should not be expected to pay for security staff accommodation and guests from his own pocket, Maharaj said.
On Monday, the DA’s parliamentary leader, Lindiwe Mazibuko, asked Public Protector Thuli Madonsela to investigate the Nkandla expenditure.
- City Press
shakira
October 2, 2012 at 12:24 pm
“ozoneblue,
Is there anything that Zuma might do that you will not defend.”
I “defended” him after the 1999/2000 sour arms deals. However my “defence” was limited to pointing out that had Ngcuka charged him as he should have done if he had adequate evidence at the time then we would not even be having this discussion. However, lacking the evidence the NPA preferred to trail him in the media, in a protracted state-sponsored onslaught stretching over almost a decade. I therefore give cde Zuma the benefit of the doubt, just as I would give this little arrogant prick Malema the benefit of the doubt if there was insufficient evidence or he was acquitted of the charges brought againt him in a court of law.
That is both within the letter and spirit of the meaning of a Constitutional state. However the state has a responsibility to safe guard and look after the security our democratically elected prez. This is common practice in a democracy, I don’t even feel I have to “defend” that bit.
I give them this, they are a clever bunch. But, alas, not clever enough. If what they are doing is not in line with the law, a court will make that determination. The problem is that all the money will by that time have been spent and he will sit with a very nice asset. I wonder about the comment made previously about SAPS’ interest this new value of his property.
shakira
October 2, 2012 at 12:24 pm
Hey Shakira,
“Sometimes I don’t think you are for real – you are only here to stir like MDF.”
OzoneBoy is nothing like Dworky.
Dworky through his deep insights is a shit-stirrer, an irritant, a pain-in-the-butt of note.
OzoneBoy on the other hand is just a regular drunkard, cry-baby and mainly a moron – but he’s fun to have around; rather like the Julius Malema of blogs.
Oh, well at least Maggs has come to his senses as far as Zuma is concerned.
Back in 2009 I hoped that all of us who feared a Zuma Presidency would eventually be proven wrong. But alas…
If you are young enough and you are educated, and perhaps you have the added misfortune of not being Zulu, heck perhaps you are even a couple of shades too light, vote with your feet.
This country treads on its educated; it does not value education; higher learning; the arts; reason; or the younger rule of law. Get on a plane (preferable one that does not have SAA painted on its side) and go. And live your life. Where life and the things that make it worth living have value.
Leave Africa to the Africans in power. And let them have the country they want and they deserve.
History has shown that trying to do anything else is an exercise in futility.
shakira
October 2, 2012 at 15:29 pm
Sad truth is everything is better under Zuma. All those big rightwing “issues” under Mbeki steadily improving – Zim, Crime, Corruption
Then – for the first time we have a plan, resource nationalism, developmental state and the second phase of the transition.
And – what about the economy, stupid? We survived a world-wide recession and things look pretty rosy ahead.
Public Works Minister Thulas Nxesi says he won’t investigate spending on Nkandla, but reiterates that he will investigate City Press.
Like I said. Sweet FUCKALL will happen.
@ozoneblue
“And – what about the economy, stupid? We survived a world-wide recession and things look pretty rosy ahead.”
Jeez you’re as thick as pigshit mate.
“I cannot see a problem with a presidential sweet in the rural KZN, much closer rural Africa, to the people, instead of Sandton. ”
OB, you are right.
But do you agree that much of the hoohaa about the Zuma’s modest extension emerges from pure RACISM? Where were the DA and PdV when the extravagant OTT Union Buildings were being built for Jan Smuts and Louis Botha?
Hey?
Have to agree with JR’s assessment of OB’s economics outlook.
This country is producing unemployable illiterates by the hundreds of thousands. Unemployment is going to get worse not better for us. Investor confidence is extremely low and mining is becoming less viable by the day. Investors are looking elsewhere, even the Chinese master plan excludes SA.
Structurally SA is heading into the stool house of pain. If you’re well educated you could remain at the top earning good money, but the masses of poor and hopeless illiterates out there are going to get pissed off one day which puts personal security at risk.
Pretty soon the tax base is going to struggle to keep up with the demands of the government (its already creaking badly), and if some of the mining houses are lost that is a huge chunk of tax gone forever. Then the handouts will stop as the government realizes it spent too much money on things like Nkandla, once the handouts stop, the people get hungry, then angry.
If something real doesn’t happen at the next elections, like an ANC defeat, this country will not recover for many decades. If the ANC wins again in 2014, I’m on the plane out of here – with my tax contribution of course.
The ANC is structurally wrecking this country in slo-mo, and there is no indication that they are going to do anything about it at all. In fact, it is quite the opposite with ideological foxholes being dug, notwithstanding the world’s history having proven the ANC wrong.
This is the problem with the whole of the ANC. Take Malusi Gigaba, Minister of Public Enterprises, for example.
Education ? A fucking batchelor’s degree in teaching ! Probably never run anything bigger than his household in his life. But he’s educated enough to hand SAA a R5-billion lifeline of taxpayer’s money. Does this doos think the poor fly ?
@ JR
With respect, the fact that Mr Gigaba has “only” a bachelors is no reason not to acknowledge his leadership. Many of our people have no degrees at all. And it does not take a fancy postgrad degree to be a bad executive. Look at Mr Bush, who has a MBA from Harvard!
Thanks.
@ Zooky
“If something real doesn’t happen at the next elections, like an ANC defeat, this country will not recover for many decades. ”
Zooky is right. Our only real hope now is that Ms Zille becomes President Zille in 2014. I feel confident that she will bring peace to our land.
If the ANC wins again in 2014, I’m on the plane out of he
John Roberts
October 2, 2012 at 18:03 pm
JR – the R5 b is required for recap, not bailout.
p.s. No need to insult OB so – pigshit is a bit strong even for OB, perhaps something milder like swinedung?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 2, 2012 at 18:49 pm
The idea of “President Zille” is gonna blow the table cloth off the mountain, eh! WDYSTT?
Should have been Pierre, but I think I debunked what most people thought they knew about land dispossession by the NP?
Hermann Giliomee has provided a lot of evidence that most of what we believed about Bantu Education was BS. Spending on black education outstripped spending on white education back in the 70s.
We can all compare what was against what is in institutions like Baragwanath.
The problem is one none of us can do anything about, and that is that the black population tripled between 1979 and 2010 and increased 10fold in the 20th century, after our first census in 1904.
What can we do about the demographics?
We needed the ANC to hit the ground running in 1990, and they didn’t.
Deloris Dolittle says:
October 2, 2012 at 15:00 pm
I’ve tried to get people on this blog to discuss the revival of the Actio Popularis which seems to me nothing other in a Rechtsstaat than the manifestation of consequences of flouting the rule of law but everyone would rather become accessories to the eccentricities of Fassbinder and OBS.
Brett Nortje
October 2, 2012 at 20:04 pm
Hey G,
“I’ve tried to get people on this blog to discuss the …”
Pah – that’s bullshit, man!
You’ve just interested in your Mshini Wam.
shakira
October 2, 2012 at 15:29 pm
LOL Shakira – and ouch!
“Oh, well at least Maggs has come to his senses as far as Zuma is concerned.”
To come to that, it had to take Zuma losing his!
[...] According to leaked reports – and please don’t tell us taxpayers that you don’t respond to leaked documents as you and or some of your government ministers and their spokespersons have previously indicated because this is our money damnit! – you will only be paying about R10 651 580.64 while the state (through taxpayers’ money) footing the remaining R203 079 677.18. Angry at the leaking of alleged “top secret” documents to the media, Nxesi maintained to SABC that details of your Nkandla upgrade are protected by Key Points Act – an assertion which according to Pierre De Vos is completely wrong. [...]
@ Brett
“Spending on black education outstripped spending on white education back in the 70s.”
Brett is right. I read somewhere that it was John Vorster who first came up with the idea of subsidising each and every black school kid to get his own iPad, pre-loaded with educational apps. But he was stymied by “verktamptes” in the civil service!
verktamptes = vark-amptenars
Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
October 2, 2012 at 20:32 pm
The reality beckons. Zuma just aint going to lose this. Why you might ask – the answer is simple, cause ANC has been elected by the people, and no amounts of obfuscation and/or sophisticated “constitutional” scull-buggery, or the usual whitsh propaganda or media frenzies is going to subtract from that one single, incontrovertible fact.
“an assertion which according to Pierre De Vos is completely wrong.”
LOL. Paid hacks opinion no matter how well publicised just don’t count.
I am always amazed when I read the comments on this site.
PdV’s cogently argued missives are in direct contrast to the illogical drivel and rants delivered by the commentators. Not to mention the ad hominem attacks. I also gather that a fair sprinkling of you are lawyers or wannabe lawyers. If that is true, that causes me more despair for this country than Zuma splurging R200mil.
Let me quote one example:
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 2, 2012 at 17:22 pm
“But do you agree that much of the hoohaa about the Zuma’s modest extension emerges from pure RACISM? Where were the DA and PdV when the extravagant OTT Union Buildings were being built for Jan Smuts and Louis Botha?
Hey?”
The point is that the Union Buildings are public buildings and not privately owned residences. Even if they were, what was done 100 years ago does not make it right today apart from the fact that they did not have a Ministerial Handbook. But hey, why let facts ruin a good story!
PS: Why don’t you post under your real names? Are you cowards or just ashamed of your level of discourse?
PPS: With reference to an earlier quote: the president has gone “bunkers”. The correct word is “bonkers” with an emphasis on the word “bonk” which is very apt for our president.
Pretty much agreed Blaine. There are some interesting comments though. I see Fassy as a news24 type, trolling for attention and adding no value. There are a few more regulars who are serial (cereal; laxative type) commentators.
Blaine McCleland
October 3, 2012 at 2:40 am
“PS: Why don’t you post under your real names? Are you cowards or just ashamed of your level of discourse?”
Yes I’m a cowerd.
And I’m very afraid I will get fired from my job or lose out on business if people knew what I really thought. Unlike PdV I am a heterosexual white male whose parents voted for the Nats and who have got kids to feed.
Does this sound familiar?
Romney’s ha ha ha. As Dana Milbank of The Washington Post noted on MSNBC this year, Romney has this weird habit of going, “Ha Ha Ha,” in response to questions he does not want to answer. Milbank pointed out how irritating it is to hear Romney’s voice descend into a long “haaaah” when he realizes that nobody else is laughing.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/television/clothes-may-make-the-man-in-the-us-presidential-debate/article4583122/
Blaine McCleland
October 3, 2012 at 2:40 am
Hey Blaine,
Dworky’s perpetual (annoying – kinda like a “herd” of mosquitos in the dark) poke at race is not far of the mark.
Perhaps you heard in the spat over the millions more demanded by King Goodwill and the claim for equal funding of all SA kings by Adv/Nkosi/MP Holomisa – the KZN king’s spokesperson accused Holomisa of, er, RACISM!
p.s. “PPS: With reference to an earlier quote: the president has gone “bunkers”. The correct word is “bonkers” with an emphasis on the word “bonk” which is very apt for our president.”
Wow, what an interesting grammar lesson – now we know.
As Dworky always says – THANK YOU!
Hey JR, Dworky, Brett – you “serial (cereal; laxative type) commentators” – as PK wisely notes – WDYS about Blaine’s English lesson for the day????
Blaine McCleland says:
October 3, 2012 at 2:40 am
Please direct any complaints to the Moderator of this blog – Adv Ballem.
Thank you.
Bheki Cele got dumped (correctly so) for massive spending on the police headquarters.
Meanwhile back at the ranch …
The ministerial handbook has again been used to veil state officials’ spending of public funds on private luxuries – this time on Zuma’s Nkandla home.
http://mg.co.za/article/2012-10-02-nxesi-contradicts-handbook-on-nkandla-upgrade
Blaine is a genius. Paul has recognised this.
Well done, Blaine and Paul.
@ Blaine, honestly man if you don’t like the comments find another blog to read. What on earth gives you the right to pass judgement, its just irretating. As for the english lesson, you seem to be the one that does not understand the very clever use of the language by the commentators here.
@friend
so you suggest that those mean Black people voting ANC should stop doing so? The question that follows is simple realy, what party should they vote for and why?
khubekileyo
October 3, 2012 at 8:16 am
As far as I know, in a democracy, if you don’t like the available parties you are free to start a new one. That is what I suggest Mr. Malema and Mr. Lamola do. They can call it the FOTYL, or the friends of the Sandton backhanders for short.
But I guess we know why that aint gonna happen, cause they are all air, noisy “militancy” with nothing to offer and unfortunately lack democratic support.
There are milions out there who think like Mhlongo and they are the reason why the ANC will be in power for the next two decades. Sadly for them, they will continue to live in poverty and squalor because the looting of state coffers will continue and money for priority areas will be diverted to serve Zuma’s interests. Lets face it, Zuma is presiding over a kleptocratic government and things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse.
In the meantime, Zuma and his officials will contiune to abuse the provisions of the Ministerial Handbook while poor kids go without textbooks and clinics go without medicine.
And if I was a friend of Mr. Malema and Mr. Lamola I would give them some good advice. I would tell them to tone down just a tad with these continuous vitriolic personal attacks on cde Zuma and his Zulu customs. They might just find that their “militancy” gets rewarded in kind, they could even end up on the wrong side of the sticks. So to speak.
KZN increase boosts Zuma – expert
“Gumede said the growth in the province could be attributed to the decline of the Inkhata Freedom Party (IFP).
“Former IFP members have joined the ANC because Zuma is there.”
It was part of Zuma’s campaign to get Zulu speakers to support his presidency.”
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/KZN-increase-boosts-Zuma-expert-20120930
@khubekileyo
Not mean, stupid. Why vote for a party you know is screwing you? You’re an adult – do some investigation into all the other parties and vote for the one you feel will do the best job for you and the country. You know the current mob aren’t doing that.
Blaine,
Re “wanabe lawyers”
Illogical drivel and rants from the above mentioned:
Everyone knows that lawyers, psychologists and social scientists are no brainers at maths. That’s why daddy and/or the State pays for them to get an education in these undemanding and limited carreer choices.
Now that the Twits-League has finished patting themselves about how wise their comments are, someone please venture what the tax implications of #BunkerBoy’s R203 m upgrade is to him personally?
No-one knows how to spell ‘gift-tax’, Maggs…
@ Maggs
Here is a hint.
How much tax is Zwelithini paying for his R60 million budget a year?
Lesego, I appreciate your sympathy for me and my kind, the millions who are dumb enough to continue to vote for the ANC, yep we are an ignorant folk who dont realize that we are condemning our own future (and that of our offspring) by voting for the ANC. Yep ignorance explains it. If only we were educated enough to see things clearly ( as you and some of the commentators in this blog clearly do) then we would knock the ANC out of power, but alas we are a dumb folk.
Maybe democracy is not for SA or maybe the franchise should be linked to education so that the dumb masses (exemplfied by yours truly) are unable to give us Presidents such as Zuma.
Until then, THE MASSES RULE.
I’m off to join the truckdrivers strike, ( “I’ll be back”- Terminator style)
The improvements to the private residence would constitute a taxable benefit or as is more commonly known a taxable fringe benefit.
Hey Prof, I demand that you comment on this case :
BoE Trust Ltd NO and Another ((846/11) [2012] ZASCA 147)
Surely such a testamentary provision is against public policy and thus unconstitutional.
I await your penetrating analysis.
mhlongo
October 3, 2012 at 12:12 pm
“Lesego, I appreciate your sympathy for me and my kind, the millions who are dumb enough to continue to vote for the ANC, yep we are an ignorant folk who dont realize that we are condemning our own future (and that of our offspring) by voting for the ANC. Yep ignorance explains it.”
Or an alternative explanation is that the masses are not nearly as malcontent, and ANC governance has not been nearly as bad as everybody is trying to make out.
Just as Mr. Malema and FOTYL is telling us that we were better of under Apartheid.
“I appreciate your sympathy for me and my kind, the millions who are dumb enough to continue to vote for the ANC”
With respect, Mhlongo, there is no need to apologise to paternalistic RACISTS like Lesego. I am not so naive to think that the ANC is without flaw. But President Zuma is cracking the whip on corruption — see the prosecution of Mr Malema. And each of his Ministers has to endure an annual PERFORMANCE REVIEW.
What is more, ANC is the only party capable of representing the aspirations of our people.
Thanks.
Niel
October 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Bullshit. Providing security to the head of democratic state is in everybody’s interest.
Especial in Africa with a proud history of serial military coups.
mhlongo says:
October 3, 2012 at 12:17 pm
You “demand”! LOL
You are a funny guy, really.
You may wish to acquaint yourself with the ‘bullshit’ that is contained in paragraph 2(a) and (e) of the Second Schedule to the Income tax act.
Niel
October 3, 2012 at 12:49 pm
So what are you saying. The head of state should not have any special security, and when other heads of state come to visit the same applies. Any special security measures should be paid for by himself?
@ OzoneBuoy
I agree vehemently that President Zuma is fully entitled to the comfort and style befitting of his dignity. But with respect, you must stop this nonsensical speculation about assassination. Our people (especially those in KNZ), love him, and would not allow anyone to harm their leader. In fact, some would kill for Pres Zuma!
This is the stuff that you will never hear from a a black snr politician.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/SibongileMafu/Poverty-has-never-looked-so-good-20121003
OB
Is Stellenbosch following on the success of UCT?
We must credit Max Price for transforming the medical profession.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/11/27/too-white-to-study-medicine
Yes Juju, Hanekom replaces Pandor.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Naledi-Pandor-new-home-affairs-minister-20121003
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 3, 2012 at 13:16 pm
mfd I know you and bunny chow boy believe (just like the Euro settler types) in some bizarre kind of South African specialism, that sees South Africa as a separate continent and not really part of Africa.
However I disagree.
“As the military was struggling to attain a national character in order
to gain national acceptance, the politicians were becoming more self-seeking,
power-hungry and ambitious. Some were out seeking instant wealth for
themselves, their friends and relatives. Nepotism became rampant, common-
place and a norm. Others were out experimenting on new and foreign ideo-
logies in the name of African socialism. These were ideologies that had
no bearing or relevance to the improvement of the lives of the ordinary
man. Some of these governments started openly courting the Eastern bloc
for advice and guidance. It did not take the ordinary citizens long to
realize that these so-called progressive governments were not delivering
the goods fast enough. Corruption had become an accepted way of life.
Mismanagement of the economy coupled with sheer incompetence had led to
runaway inflation and unaffordable prices. Unemployment and crime rates
were on the increase. Yet the greedy get-rich-quick politicians continued
getting richer. These were the kind of situations to be found in Ghana,
Sudan, Somalia, Uganda and other countries when their governments fell to
the military.
In the majority of the coups that have occurred, the military has
deemed it a national and patriotic obligation to rescue the country from
total collapse and thereby restore lost national prestige. Although these
coups d’etat have been executed in the guise of national interest and patri-
otic duty, more often than not, military regimes have turned out to be more
corrupt, oppressive and downright inefficient than the civilian governments
they deposed.”
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1985/WJ.htm
Does any of the above sound vaguely familiar?
Gwebecimele
October 3, 2012 at 13:39 pm
I guess the “nonracial” message to her is quite clear.
Take your white skin and fuckoff back to where ever your racist white parents came from if you want to become a medical practitioner.
PdV would be absolutely pleased.
@ see see
my bad Blacks aren’t (just) mean they are stupid.
Let me ask you one thing, in your heart of hearts do you honestly beleive that there is any party out there that will do a better job than the ANC for the stupid black people? According to Friend’s post above those stupid ‘Black people either do not pay tax, live off gvt grants and subsidies or they are unionised….’ Their kids easily and readily receive financial assistance should they have ambitions to persue tertiary education and there’s BEE, the EEA all to the interests of these stupid Black people. Now please give me a political party that will support and continue with what’s listed above and actually do more for Blacks.
@ Ozonebuoy
Some would find you enthusiasm for President Zuma and your dislike of racially-based AA to be somewhat inconsistent. After all, many would assume that President Zuma is not strongly opposed to the robust racial-awareness that his government imposes. I can only assume that you have information to the contrary.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 3, 2012 at 14:28 pm
Strong dislike of a certain aspect of current ANC policy that doesn’t necessarily agree with my kids best interests doesn’t necessarily imply that I disagree with all of what the ANC, our democracy and its current prez represent. That is for long term debate in the national democratic space.
What should be noted though is that I do not run around inciting hatred and violence against black people or anybody else.
on AA
But-for past discrimination AA would not be implemented thus past discrimination is the factual cause of AA. Most people agree with this proposition.
But the problem arises when some people somehow feel that they should be given some special treatment and be protected from the consequences of past discrimination ( AA being one ).
Every South African must bear the consequences of past-discrimination in some manner (the Black majority do this daily) but NO when it comes to AA another consequence of past-discrimination our White compatriots say ” Nope, all though we accept the need for AA is a consequence of past discrimination, that is a consequence we (Whites) would rather not bear, so as for the racial imbalances in the workplace, university and in the economy, black man you are on your own, we (whites) aren’t bearing none of that.”
The White objection is to AA is not usually presented in this form, why would it be, it is usually presented on some principle of non-racialism. As ” in a ideal democracy the one must not be given or deprived of opportunities based on his skin color blah blah blah”.
Principle of non-racialism my ass. The principle is just a covenient tool to justify their overtly racist stance. In the words of Fish “that’s the Trouble with principle”. Adopt a stance look around for a principle to cover it with and then claim your stance is principled,(sies you have no shame.)
What is ironic is that these very people who claim special treatment ( protection from past-discrimination consequences, which the operation AA is one) object to AA because it specially treats blacks as favoured.
Oh puhleeeeze man.
Ozoneblue is not a coward.
Just a cunt.
mhlongo
October 3, 2012 at 15:17 pm
“Principle of non-racialism my ass.”
Its OK. We got that message long, long time ago mhlongo. The only time “nonracialism” was not only desirable but a moral imperative was during the evil racist Apartheid, ne?
What a transparent hypocrite you are. So what do say then to “18-year-old … achieved six distinctions in her Grade 11 exams”
Fuckoff white teenager. But back to where ??
@Blaine McCleland
You either have the IQ of a potato or you are another Fassbinder pseudonym.
Outside of the planned spending at Zuma’s private residence, the state has in recent years spent huge sums of money on upgrades to the president’s official residences.
Last year, R200-million was set aside in the budget for the refurbishment of the president’s official residence at Mahlamba Ndlopfu at the Bryntirion Estate. That year, then public works minister Gwen Mahlangu Nkabinde told Parliament that in the preceding year R13.9-million had been spent on Genadendal in Cape Town, R1.9-million was splashed out on Kings House in Durban and R40-million had been spent on Mahlamba Ndlopfu in Pretoria since 2005.
In 2009, it was revealed that R50-million was being spent on a four-metre high razor wire-topped metal inner fence – which stood 10.7m away from an exterior fence – at King’s House, Zuma’s official residence in Durban.
The total cost of the extensive security upgrades, which included bullet-proof electric fences, motion and smoke sensors, watch dogs and police on quad bikes, was not known.
So that’s a total of R464-million on Zuma-related residences.
HOLY FUCK ! SOMEBODY FUCKING DO SOMETHING !
@khubekileyo
Ok, maybe I should have read Friends post. I don’t agree with what you quote from him, do you? Your last sentence suggests you do. ANC doing all that for the majority? Pity they can’t provide schoolbooks and clean linen for hospitals as well. If one is aware of how the government is performing and still vote for them, that’s stupid. You and I are fortunate in having been educated to the extent we can read articles like this:
http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2012/10/02/what-will-it-take-for-us-to-open-our-eyes
@Mlongo – as I have pointed out before the gift whites gave to the blacks was a written langauge because prior to their arrival this did not exist.
You had no means to create an economy because if you did one would have existed with developed gold and diamond mines and the supporting industries already established at that time.
What you crave is what the white settlers brought to this part of the world but what we have now is not AA where a disadvatged minorty gets preferenece for the same qualification, but out and out ethnic cleansing.
Where is the legislation that black owned companies have to employ certain quotos of people from other race groups.
The myth of tranformation to reflect the demographics is that your race group were very far behind in development in the first instance before aparthied was instituted.
Do you want proof of this ? then look no further than this traditional bill that is being tabled in parliament because that is a reflection of what your culture represented in 1948.
Point is – if we imposed a AA system at Universities based on 50% purely merit and 50% merit plus the requirement that applicant comes from public school we can implement a AA that is morally defensible, being both just and nonracial.
But there is no political will to do that, that is why the same already affirmed families and friends are perpetually affirmed through the same BEE/AA mechanisms and despite the rabid rhetoric to the contrary the genuinely marginalised and disadvantaged remain just that – marginalised and disadvantaged.
The Ministerial HandbookThe ministerial handbook has frequently been used to justify questionable expenditure by public officials. Late last year, Public Protector Thuli Madonsela urged the public works department to “set standards for domestic accommodation of ministers”. The ministerial handbook has again been used to veil state officials’ spending of public funds on private luxuries – this time on Zuma’s Nkandla home. Public Works Minister Thulas Nxesi has defended the department’s plans to spend R203-million on upgrading President Jacob Zuma’s homestead in Nkandla.
http://www.pod702.co.za/podcast/bestofredi/20121003BESTREDIB.mp3
Some ANC branches in KwaZulu-Natal have indicated they want the country’s axed police commissioner Bheki Cele to lead the party.
The ANC’s provincial secretary Sihle Zikalala said: “Some of our branches, they’ve said to us they are nominating his name and we’ve said we’ve got no problem. There is nothing that precludes his nomination.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/10/03/some-kzn-anc-branches-want-cele-to-lead-party
John Roberts
October 3, 2012 at 15:50 pm
” the state has in recent years spent huge sums of money on upgrades to the president’s official residences.”
That is because under Mbeki’s neoliberal regime of “fiscal discipline” just about everything went to shit, not only Eskom.
“Doidge said: “This building is important to the heritage of Durban and South Africa, and the department has ensured that the house and gardens will improve.”
He admitted that the building had not received the attention and maintenance that it required. However, he said that after the completion of the renovations, the building would not be allowed to descend into this state again.”
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/shabby-king-s-house-gets-a-major-revamp-1.433310
@ozoneblue
Stuff doesn’t just fall to pieces and go to shit to the tune of R50-million.
You gotta be bloody thick to believe that excuse
If it’s true that President Zuma misused public funds for his private home then it would be better he ends his Presidency soon.
But if this home really has a public/official function and the moneyflow for the “upgrade” was along the usual lines for such funds then it’s another story.
It’s not unusual in other countries that somebody in a position such as a president, prime minister or in Germany the Bundespresident has a special estate for state functions such as welcoming guests of the state. But there must be clear legal regulations about such spendings. It seems to be the case that the renewal of President Zuma’s estate was not in accordance with South African law.
If verified this would be very embarassing for the reputation of the current Presidency and even for the nation.
And it’s disgusting how a potentially fruitful debate about the South African government once again turns into racist bigotry with “Brett Nortje” comparing Zuma with some crazy african dictators and “Mike” teaching us how far behind Blacks are compared to the white masterrace.
That’s exactly the reason why the ANC as a party, the presidency and the government in general tend to not take your criticism serious. Or do you think that somebody who was a former victim of the apartheid racism (such as most older ANC members were – even if they now have the political power), will accept criticism that appears to come from the former beneficiaries of that criminal policy?
@See see
, they even installed eletricity in there, provided water, every month she receives R1000+ ( social grant), 9 of her grandchildren received financial aid from the ANC govt to go study WITH WHITE PEOPLE at university and there’s AA which helped them get jobs after university. She is a grateful woman who always openly and boldly declares how much she loves the ANC and how she will never vote for any other party, you can call her stupid all you like but you will never fool her with your news articles that give praise to the DA who’s leader refered to some of her great grand children as refugees. A lot of black people her age have similar stories and they think the same as her. You call them stupid Black people, I call them grateful human beings.
while you seem to be someone who makes his conclusions on who to vote for based on articles such as the one you’ve pasted, black people make their conclusion on who to vote for based on their past and current expiriences. You and many white cape townians may agree with what that article says but i promise you that guys staying in Khayelitsha, Nyanga, Gugulethu, Kayamandi and many other Black township in Cape Town will find that article as nothing but absolute bollocks. You see See see people vote for a party that best represents their interest and aspirations and the DA is not that party, not for Blacks. The ANC, despite having a countless number of flaws, has built a house for my grandma who stayed in a shack for many many years, and inside that house there’s a toilet
John Roberts
October 3, 2012 at 17:22 pm
50 mil is petty cash. These figures might seems excessive to the general public who know nothing about building works and the maintenance cycle. And R 100 000 for properly securing a premiere’s private home ? LOL.
Cool. I’m happy for your grandma. She would be mad to vote for anyone but the ANC. The help she and her grandchildren has received from the government is similar to the help most whites got from the Nats. Do you now understand why so many whites kept on voting them into power?
See See says:
October 3, 2012 at 19:43 pm
Another disciple of the l’etat c’est moi school….
khubekileyo says:
October 3, 2012 at 19:03 pm
The ANC built your gran sweet fokkol. The state did.
khubekileyo
A once proud organization elected a known crook as their president. That does not worry you? And you seem to conflate the DA with white – they have more black members than white.
The ANC is for your Granma’s generation. I even voted for them once.
Anno says:
October 3, 2012 at 18:17 pm
Blah blah blah.
Go change-agent someone else. There is no ambiguity here. We all know the distinction between private property and public things. There are several ‘official residences’ and Nkandla isn’t one of them. This is theft pure and simple.
The truth does not go around in a partypolitical Tshirt.
If you are blind to the reality that JZ’s presidential palace is the latest in a host of ticked boxes of the stereotypical African kleptocrat profile I have to question your mental acuity.
@See see
Yes I understand that whites supported apartheid big time but i disagree abt my grandma’s help from the ANC being similar to the help whites got from the apartheid government. I could point out many differences but that would be as pointless as this arguement we seem to be having, because im sure you’re well aware of them.
All I was trying to say to you is that what’s stupid in your eyes isn’t necessarily stupid in someone else’s.
@Brett
fair enough, but the state had to be led by the ANC for that house to be built for her.
@ Anno
“Do you think that somebody who was a former victim of the apartheid racism…, will accept criticism that appears to come from the former beneficiaries of [apartheid]
No, they won’t.
That is why I demand that WHITISTS of all stripes SHUT THE FUCK UP, and withdraw gracefully from our public sphere, for the next generation or so. (BTW, we are also not interested in hearing from African “tea ladies,” like Lindiwe, who seem content to serve as mouthpieces for their ventriloquist madams.)
khubekileyo says:
October 3, 2012 at 20:34 pm
I think you are spot on wrt people’s subjective perceptions.
The fact that it is often at variance with objective reality just goes to show to what extent the ruthless sham,eless ANC has managed to hijack the narration of modern history.
khubekileyo
October 3, 2012 at 20:34 pm
“Yes I understand that whites supported apartheid big time but i disagree abt my grandma’s help from the ANC being similar to the help whites got from the apartheid government.”
Why?
That is clearly nonsense. Your grandma will gladly support a racist system that favours her because of the color of her skin. The fact that she is poor now and have been oppressed in the past doesn’t mean that a similar set of circumstances didn’t dominate political discourse in 1948 with the victory of the Nats.
Anno
October 3, 2012 at 17:50 pm
“It’s not unusual in other countries that somebody in a position such as a president, prime minister or in Germany the Bundespresident has a special estate for state functions such as welcoming guests of the state.”
The position is the same with South Africa, with all the facilities available at Bryntirion Estate in Pretoria, such as the luxorious Presidential Guest House.
@ozoneblue
you need to breathe man, you seem angry in most of your posts and you’re not shy to utter ruthless attacks at people for no apparent reason. I hope u dont swear at me as i respond to your post.
today’s system isn’t racist its one that’s based on the simple priciple of equality, the prof will tell you that equality doesn’t always have to be formal especially in a society that has a history as horendous as ours, you see substantive equality is infact what my grandma is benefitting from.
khubekileyo
October 3, 2012 at 22:37 pm
LOL khubekileyo,
You’re trying to reason with, as JR calls it, pig shit!
khubekileyo says:
October 3, 2012 at 22:37 pm
How can we be equal in a system where two people have two children and those two children have two children of their own and these 8 people are dispossessed of half the fruits of their labour all their lives to support 10 people they never meet who never actually sit down and give a thought to where this largesse actually comes from? Father Christmas (and the elves in Nkandla?)
Is that a fair and just system?
You need to read back blogs – use the search function to find ‘Jaco’ ‘Hannah Arendt’ ‘thoughtlessness’.
Seems a reminder from Pandora’s Box is in order:
” As I have proved in Opening Pandora’s Apartheid Box.everyone in South Africa benefitted from Apartheid, Black and White. Blacks had the highest literary standards and the highest life standard of all the blacks in Africa.
How was it at all possible for Tutu to study and become a teacher just ike his father was? How did Nelson Mandela and countless other blacks managed to become lawyers during Apartheid South Africa?
The Apartheid government built ten Universities for blacks including Medunsa which is a unique medical university that turned out 200 highly qualified black
doctors every year all at state costs, paid for by the white taxpayers. It also trained paramedics and nurses.
Since 1970 the budget for black education was raised by about 30% per year every year. More than any other government department. In the period 1955 -1984 the amount of black school students increased 31 times from 35,000 to 1,096 000. 65% of black South African children were at school compared to Egypt 64%, Nigeria 57%, Ghana 52%, Tanzania 50% and Ethiopia 29%.
Amongst the adults of South Africa, 71% could read and write (80% between the ages 12 and 22).
Compare this to Kenya 47%, Egypt 38%, Nigeria 34% and Mozambique at 26%. In South Africa, the whites built 15 new classrooms for blacks every working day, every year. At 40 children per class it meant space for an additional 600 black students every day!!! In 1985 there were 42,000 Blacks at 5 universities in South Africa, about the same amount at the universities of the homelands.
In an article called “Die Afrikaner” 11 Feb 1987, the quarterly magazine called “Vox Africana Nr 29 4/87 stated that, South Africa had 4,8 million whites and 18,2 million blacks in 1987. The whites paid 77% of the taxes and the blacks only 15%…despite this…56% of the government budget was spent on blacks.
During the time of Dr. Verwoerd, the living standards of Blacks were rising at 5,4% per year against that of the whites at 3,9% per year. In 1965 the economic growth of South Africa was the second highest in the world at 7, 9%. The rate of inflation was a mere 2% per annum and the prime interest rate only 3% per annum. Domestic savings were so great that South Africa needed no foreign loans for normal economic expansion. Even Lord Deedes admitted, “White South Africa grew to become the economic giant of the continent, the other members of the Commonwealth virtually sank into poverty.”
At the hight of Apartheid in 1978 Soweto had 115 football fields, 3 Rugby fields, 4 athletic tracks, 11 Cricket fields, 2 Golf courses, 47 Tennis courts, 7 swimming pools built to O lympic standards, 5 Bowling alleys, 81 Netball fields, 39 children play parks, and countless civic halls, movie houses and clubhouses.
In addition to this, Soweto had 300 churches, 365 schools, 2 Technical Colleges, 8 clinics, 63 child day care centres, 11 Post Offices, and its own fruit and vegetable market. There were 2300 registered companies that belonged to black businessmen, about 1000 private taxi companies. 3% of the 50,000 vehicle owners in 1978 were Mercedes Benz owners. Soweto alone had more cars, taxis, schools, churches and sport facilities than most independent countries in Africa. The Blacks of South Africa had more private vehicles than the entire white population of the USSR at the time. Today Soweto has modern shopping malls like, Dobsonville Shopping Centre. In 2005 the Protea Gardens Mall opened. This was followed by the Baramall Shopping Centre and the Jabulani Shopping complex and the Maponya Mall. Experts say that Soweto has as much as 25% oversupply of retail space. The Canadian Medical Doctor, Dr Kenneth Walker wrote about Soweto, (I freely translate from “Verrat an Südafrika”, Klaus Vaque, 1987, pg 41) “In Soweto I saw many homes that costs about $100,000 (1978) and that had a BMW in the driveway. All houses are single storey. Many are recently painted. Many had flowerpots in the windows and lawn in the front. Only 2% were shacks. If I had the choice to live in Soweto or in the apartment dwellings or “Projects” of New York, Chicago, or Detroit where there is so much crime, then I would n ot hesitate for one moment and choose Soweto.”
The biggest hospital in the world, Baragwaneth with 3200 beds and at its peak almost 8000 staff had 23 operation theatres fitted out with the most modern medical equipment that existed in the world. Blacks were treated here, operated on…at full state costs to the white-taxpayers for unlimited periods. The budget of
this hospital was and is higher than the yearly budget of most small member states of the United Nations. Next door to Baragwaneth is the St. John’s Eye Clinic. The clinic is world famous for the treatment of Glaucoma, Cataracts, traumatic eye injuries and rare tropical diseases. All built and maintained by white taxpayer’s money for blacks. Baragwaneth in 1978 employed 450 medical doctors in full-time service. It treated 112 000 in-patients and 1.62 million out-patients per year. The children and infant death rate with 34.8 per 1000 was lower than Harlem in New York. In 1982 alone, this hospital performed 898 heart operations of world quality. Ironically…90% of the blood donors for this hospital were whites, who donated blood free of charge, totally voluntarily…to save black lives. (Quoted from The Citizen, 2 April 1987).
khubekileyo
October 3, 2012 at 22:37 pm
“today’s system isn’t racist its one that’s based on the simple priciple of equality,”
I know khubekiyo. There was also an elaborate tapestry of moralistic sophistry woven around the Apartheid ideology. The Nats called it “separate but equal”, i.e. black people could enjoy “full equality” in their bantustans where they would not be hampered by the countless obstacles erected in the path towards full self-development by racist white people.
Just like in Zaire and Uganda.
@Brett
ha ha ha in other words the apartheid government was bettter for black people than the current one. Dear oh Dear. Your fancy words and your stats mean very little to those who were on the receiving end of the apartheid system. Black people have their expiriences and that mate is something that no
I am totally disillusioned about the state of our nation and was appalled upon reading this article!! I worry about my children’s future!!!! R202m could feed millions, provide textbooks, medicines…the list goes on and on. Atrocious !!!
…amount of words or stats can change.
This is typical of the disease that most of the government people have its called the giveme’s
khubekileyo says:
October 4, 2012 at 7:25 am
Isn’t that the conflict in SA in a nutshell?
People who laugh off facts (the majority) v those who have to pay for the laughter (the minority) while reconciling themselves to the realpolitik of the issue which is that nothing is going to change for the better no matter how many resources are thrown at the problem? That the racial mobilisation against the minority is going to get worse as it feeds on itself and perpetuates itself?
According to the 1904 census the black population was 3 491 056.
The white population 1 116 805.
According to the 1960 census the black population was 10 928 000.
The white population 3 080 000.
According to the 2010 census the black population was 40 206 275.
The white population 4 565 825.
In the 1970s already black education spending of taxes raised mainly from whites outstripped education spending on whites. What more where we supposed to do?
The lion’s share of pre 1994 budgets went toward counteracting the ANC hyenas’ violent self-destructive irresponsible acting out.
We all know what happened after 1994:
500 000 murders.
2m people dead of AIDS.
2m AIDS orphans.
1,2m people dependent on the state for ARVs.
R765bn looted.
R243bn wasted by ANC deployees to the state owned enterprises which made South Africa the continent’s powerhouse. (And always more to go the Escom the SABC and SAA…)
This could be a long list…
Brett Nortje
October 4, 2012 at 8:26 am
“R243bn wasted by ANC deployees to the state owned enterprises which made South Africa the continent’s powerhouse.”
Brett. You are aware that I disagree fundamentally with the “cadre deployment” euphemism when it comes to explaining why our government has been failing in so many ways. The problem is not the “cadres” but the self-destructive effect of AA and the dogma of “racial demographics” at all costs gone haywire.
Severe shortage of engineers
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/10/03/severe-shortage-of-engineers
Now compare:
Shortage of doctors is beyond critical
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-08-05-shortage-of-doctors-is-beyond-critical
However our universities can afford to turn away our most promising applicants by their hundreds.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/11/27/too-white-to-study-medicine
@ Brett is right. One can only conclude that blacks were UNGRATEFUL for apartheid. And then there was the gift Brett forgot to mention: whites donated nine brand new INDEPENDENT STATES, and even supplied blacks with Transkei and Bop passports with photographs and everything. And did we hear a word of gratitude? NO!
PS, Brett, while I agree fully with your sentiments, I am puzzled that, in light of the lavish gifts with which whites showered blacks, you said last year that as a young man you got into hot water for saying in church or school or somewhere that the system was WRONG! My question for you now: What were you smoking?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 4, 2012 at 9:31 am
Hey Dworky,
You have to apologise to Brett for mocking his claims over White GENOCIDE.
According to his figures Whites have dropped from over 31% in 1904 to around 28% in 1960 to less than 12% in 2010.
DMwangi’s complex regression model will probably confirm that in less than the next 50 years White population will be -35%.
WDYSTT?
Gotta lift your game, Dworky.
Compare your contributions to those made by Maggs. Maggs has made it pretty clear a)the report must be true and b) there is a nasty SARS surprise waiting for the King of Nkandla at his Presidential Palace.
I have to start thinking about replacing you…
OK, so there is a recidivist Maggs too. Never said I was perfect, even Dr Frankenstein’s creation had issues.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
October 4, 2012 at 9:38 am
Where is the inconsistency between believing that Apartheid was fundamentally unChristian and pointing out incontrovertible facts?
Not a very sophisticated thinker, are you?
Brett Nortje
October 4, 2012 at 9:44 am
Hey G,
Don’t attack the messenger – I’m a nice guy.
But do say why you changed you mind that apartheid was wrong!
Brett Nortje
October 4, 2012 at 9:47 am
Ok G,
Got it.
Apartheid was not wrong, it was un-Christian.
If it was Christian, then it was not wrong!
I haven’t budged an inch in my belief that Apartheid was fundamentally unChristian.
All over the world governments do things that are unChristian. All the time.
Don’t you think ALL the facts surrounding Apartheid should be in the public space, good and bad? If ‘the truth’ is to mean anything?
Sure, I now try to put the hurt on the ANC whenever I can. It delights me. The rose-tinted specs are long gone. Their useless incompetent deployees at the City of Johannesburg have destroyed me financially, and the ANC (the same ANC that tried to disarm me by force) compiled the narrative that allowed one of its supporters to hate on me all the while he was trying to shove an Okapi into my heart.
How did that work out for them?
@ brett
“Where is the inconsistency between believing that Apartheid was fundamentally unChristian and pointing out incontrovertible facts?”
Please help me understand how it was “unchristian” of your people to shower blacks with separate textbooks, flower pots, hospitals, lifts, park benches and, not least, nine full-fledged sovereign and independent states!
Thank.
PS. Don’t let Maggs confuse you. In his heart, he is Hindu.
ozonered
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 4, 2012 at 10:12 am
ozonered
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 4, 2012 at 10:05 am
High extraordinarily quaint. Censorship as applied by the crusader for the freedom of speech.
*Your comment is awaiting moderation.*
October 4, 2012 at 8:58 am
*our comment is awaiting moderation.*
October 4, 2012 at 8:52 am
Brett Nortje
October 4, 2012 at 8:26 am
“R243bn wasted by ANC deployees to the state owned enterprises which made South Africa the continent’s powerhouse.”
Brett. You are aware that I disagree fundamentally with the “cadre deployment” euphemism when it comes to explaining why our government has been failing in so many ways. The problem is not the “cadres” but the self-destructive effect of AA and the dogma of “racial demographics” at all costs gone haywire.
Severe shortage of engineers
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/10/03/severe-shortage-of-engineers
Now compare:
Shortage of doctors is beyond critical
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-08-05-shortage-of-doctors-is-beyond-critical
However our universities can afford to turn away our most promising applicants by their hundreds.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2011/11/27/too-white-to-study-medicine
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 4, 2012 at 10:13 am
LOL Dworky,
“Don’t let Maggs confuse you.”
Don’t blame me for what occurred naturally to Brett.
And stop using the SHOWER word in every discussion around Zuma.
The “independent states” as you call them were the dumping bowls for women, children, elderly – out of sight, out of mind. Very unlike leper colonies established by “Christian” governments.
I wont say a word since my comments are being censored again.
Maggs, are you saying that there were no Tswana west of Krugersdorp before the National Party decided to create Bophutatswana?
That the Royal Bafokeng’s platinum-rights claim is a scam?
Brett Nortje
October 4, 2012 at 11:23 am
But G,
“That the Royal Bafokeng’s platinum-rights claim is a scam?”
If the racist WHITE people knew that there was platinum below the parched earth, would they have dumped the Bafokeng on top of it?
Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
October 4, 2012 at 11:51 am
With lots of respect. The Bafokeng were never “dumped there”, your grasp of South African history is as suspect as your commitment to a truly nonracial and united South Africa including but not limited to the racists Whites, The Coloureds and the bargaining Indians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Bafokeng_Nation
“if the racist WHITE people knew that there was platinum below the parched earth, would they have dumped the Bafokeng on top of it?”
In short, Yes. As Brett has taught us, his people, although sometimes harsh, were lavish in their gifts to blacks. It was in this spirit of foresighted generosity that the whites dumped the Bafokeng on land that would one day yield up great riches unto them and their children.
In this, they were following the saying of Our Lord: “Blessed are the weak, for they shall inherit the earth, and all the mineral rights beneath it.” (Luke 6:17.)
Thanks.
As you can see, my dear Maggs, that peeved Dworky’s people hugely.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
October 4, 2012 at 12:27 pm
” As Brett has taught us, his people, although sometimes harsh,”
To be fair, they were no more “harsh” than some other well known tribes in South Africa mfd.
“Before colonial settlers arrived, the area had been settled by agrarian Setswana speaking tribes for several hundred years. Rustenburg’s population is primarily Tswana people. Many belong to the Royal Bafokeng Nation, extensive landowners earning royalties from mining operations. The Royal Bafokeng are descendants of Sotho settlers who displaced the local tribes from the region, which they came to call ‘place of dew’ (Phokeng). In the early 1800s, the Bafokeng and other Tswana communities were conquered in a series of devastating wars launched by an offshoot of the Zulu kingdom, called the Matabele. The Boers had also fought the Zulu and Matabele, and so the Boers and Tswana found in the Matabele a common enemy. The Tswana and Boers planned together and worked toward defeating the Matabele from a Sotho-Tswana kingdom to the south, and together, they defeated the Matebele.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rustenburg
Generational mix se Ballem!
“We urge older persons to join us in teaching our young people what it means to be good citizens, who are guided by the understanding of respect and ubuntu,” he said.
“You spend a lot of time with grandchildren, and can contribute to inculcating these positive values at an early age, so that we can build a better society.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/09/30/sa-needs-wisdom-of-elders-zuma
Ja – you spend time with your grandchildren in the state sponsored 1/4 BILLION state sponsored compound and show and tell them how it’s done!
So the R100K limit was broken long time ago.
Similarily with “tenders and trusts” they did not start with Julius.
http://mg.co.za/article/2012-10-08-00-nkandla-security-dwarfs-that-of-other-presidents-homes
http://finweek.com/2012/09/12/4301/
“For those of you who missed the article, the nub of my argument centres on the simple fact that neither the Banking Association of South Africa, nor the Reserve Bank or National Treasury has been able to explain how and why it was decided that the prime lending rate should be fixed at 3.5 percentage points above the repurchase rate. In the current environment, that means that the reference point used for extending credit to South Africans is currently set at 8.5% compared to a central bank rate of 5%. This is despite the fact that the three-month JIBAR rate, the benchmark rate at which banks borrow from each other in the open market, is currently at 5.075%.
Despite numerous requests for an explanation, none of the above-mentioned institutions have been able to explain to me how or why this 3.5 percentage point interest rate margin for commercial lenders was decided. In my most recent response to the Banking Association’s criticism of my original article on the prime lending rate, I wrote: “In the absence of any explanation, one can only assume that it was arbitrarily decided by banking executives and the Reserve Bank Governor over a few single malts and some Cuban cigars.”
The popularity of this website leaves me speechless.
Mandela – R28 million
Mbeki – R3.5 million
Zuma – R238 million.
So R1,75 million per dependent.
No – that cannot be right. Mandela doesn’t have 16 dependents!
http://www.citypress.co.za/Politics/News/Madiba-Mbeki-got-far-less-than-Zuma-20121006
Zuma responded.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/10/11/family-helped-nkandla-renovation—zuma
Leadership shall eat on your behalf.
http://mg.co.za/article/2012-10-12-00-mandela-in-fight-over-patronage
[...] Public Works has committed to spending R203 million – about US$23 million or £14 million – of public money, not only in developing this village in rural KwaZulu-Natal, but in building Zuma’s increasingly [...]
Well at least each of his wives will have a place of their own and he will have them all where he wants them.
Now you know why you want a president with a one wife policy, coz the taxpayers will pay for every other wife he wants to have.
This complex cost R230 000 000.00 to build but an RDP house costs R55 000.00, that means he could have chosen to build an RDP house for at least 4 600 homeless families.
My Question is what is wrong with where he is leaving right now?
Zuma was voted into power by people, but is he really peoplecentric?
Will he still proudly sing “Mshini wami, mshini wami” if there is a South African Spring, like the Arab Spring.
No wonder why Mothlane myt be having second thoughts to being president right now coz Zuma has done so much damage, this would be the worst time to be The Cleaner after Zuma`s dirt. But seriously , what did South Africans really expect from Zuma as president, all he really knows about is having more women and getting what he wants from them. He should run for candidacy in Swaziland, he is most suited for a mornachy kinda dictatorship. I bet he would have the reed dance every other week if he were king. Come on His Exc. Casanova President Zuma, build your one man motel to house all your wives and concubines usebenzese umshini wakho kakhulu!!
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December 11, 2012 at 13:50 pm
Hey Alex James,
“loan (5,000.00 EUR) to the maximum amount of loan (50,000.000.00 EUR) in the duration of one year to 50 years.”
Please finance the Nkandla Compound for R250 million.
It will be paid back (maybe) AFTER 50 years – at R3.89 per year.
What do you say?
Are we as South Africans spell bound by JZ and his comrades? We are writing, criticising, angry, etc, etc ,etc. Is it therefore correct to assume that there is nothing legal that can be done to stop this looting? Or are we scared that MK veterans will trace and DISCIPLINE US?
Isn’t there another option, via International Criminal Court or United Nations that “leaders” that exploit national resources for own benefit, at the expense of the poor defence less communities?
Are we going to end up like Zimbabwe?
First of all, I think it’s disgusting that OUR president is using over R206m just to improve his household in Nkandla! What could that money be used for?? Bulding homes for the homeless, getting proper delivery of textbooks to Limpopo students, enclosing the open-built toilets, building new schools! So many different things. Taking up the role of president means to look after and see to the needs of a whole country, right?? So why is the president only seeing to his own desires? This is unfair and total misuse of power. And isn’t it ironic that Nkandla has the highest rate of HIV infections than any area in Africa!? Why not use that money to educate your fellow Nkandleans?? Also, many of them are unemployed and due to death of HIV nearly half of Nkandla’s population are children and orphans. Doesn’t this sound strange?? “Let’s renovate MY house and watch all these unfortunate souls stare in wonder and suffer
” wtf dude! Seriously?? The government should really tighten up their duties because, quite clearly, the whole system is corrupted and MP’s are only using their income to satisfy their wants. We would be better off if the Mayan’s prediction of 2013 came to fruition. — disgusted at what our country has come to after the supposed success of beating down Apartheid. Hey, this country certainly improved and asll promises were kept, right??
–Angry Spine Road High learner
First of all, I think it’s disgusting that OUR president is using over R206m just to improve his household in Nkandla! What could that money be used for?? Bulding homes for the homeless, getting proper delivery of textbooks to Limpopo students, enclosing the open-built toilets, building new schools! So many different things. Taking up the role of president means to look after and see to the needs of a whole country, right?? So why is the president only seeing to his own desires? This is unfair and total misuse of power. And isn’t it ironic that Nkandla has the highest rate of HIV infections than any area in Africa!? Why not use that money to educate your fellow Nkandleans?? Also, many of them are unemployed and due to death of HIV nearly half of Nkandla’s population are children and orphans. Doesn’t this sound strange?? “Let’s renovate MY house and watch all these unfortunate souls stare in wonder and suffer
” wtf dude! Seriously?? The government should really tighten up their duties because, quite clearly, the whole system is corrupted and MP’s are only using their income to satisfy their wants. We would be better off if the Mayan’s prediction of 2013 came to fruition. — disgusted at what our country has come to after the supposed success of beating down Apartheid. Hey, this country certainly improved and all promises were kept, right??
–Angry Spine Road High learner
[...] did it call for a vote of no confidence vote on him but only indicated that his failure (as also noted by Pierre De Vos) to “heed to my call to immediately stop this Nkandla upgrade saga would [...]