Constitutional Hill

Nkandla: why an open and transparent approach is needed

The controversy around the funding of the recent upgrades of President Jacob Zuma’s private homestead at Nkandla goes to the heart of our democracy, which is safeguarded, in part, by requiring a large degree of openness, transparency and accountability from public office bearers and from our government. That is why I requested the Public Protector to confirm that President Zuma did not breach the Executive Ethics Code when he told the National Assembly that his family was paying for all but the security-related upgrades at Nkandla.

In February 1891, Louis Brandeis, who later served with distinction on the US Supreme Court, wrote a letter to his fiancé, expressing an interest in writing a “a sort of companion piece” to his influential article on “The Right to Privacy”. In this article, he wrote, he would focus on “The Duty of Publicity”. He had been thinking, he wrote, “about the wickedness of people shielding wrongdoers & passing them off (or at least allowing them to pass themselves off) as honest men.”

He then proposed a remedy: “If the broad light of day could be let in upon men’s actions, it would purify them as the sun disinfects.” In 1913 he rephrased this thought, famously writing that “sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants”.

One might well think that Justice Brandeis held a rather too bleak and pessimistic view of human nature. But as the Watergate scandal, and (more recently) the scandal around the absence of “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq illustrate, there might be good reasons to distrust the powerful men and women in government and big business. While a lack of transparency and accountability by the powerful does not necessarily lead to corruption, abuse of power and illegality, the sunlight of open, transparent and accountable government will almost always prevent it.

Unfortunately the responsible minister, the president and the president’s spindoctor have not dealt with the upgrade of President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead in an open, transparent and accountable manner. When the media reported that more than R200 million of public funds were being spent on upgrades at Nkandla, the Minister of Public Works (invoking an Apartheid-era law) refused to provide a breakdown of the cost. Similarly, while President Zuma told the National Assembly that his family was paying for all the non-security-related upgrades at Nkandla and that he was still paying back a bond taken out to finance the previous phase of the building project in 2000, he refused to provide either relevant details or any proof to back up his statements.

If the minister and the presidency had come clean from the start, and if they had told the South African public exactly how much was being spent at Nkandla, which portion was being financed by the state and which proportion by the president, the media and the South African public might long since have moved on.

Yes, it might well be that complete openness and transparency would have embarrassed the government. After all, there is evidence that the cost of the state sponsored “security” upgrade far exceeds the amount allowed by the Ministerial Handbook and that the budget for the state financed part of the project is suspiciously inflated. But this embarrassment would have been less harmful to the government and to President Zuma than the lingering controversy we sit with now. Those of us who are members of the chattering classes — with our notoriously short attention spans — might well have expressed our outrage at the time, but we would soon have found something else to worry about. (Spy tapes anyone?)

Because the minister and the presidency prevented the sunlight from shining on the financing of the Nkandla upgrade, some people became ever-more suspicious. Because of the absence of openness and transparency, the scandal festered. In fact, the scandal was fed by vague and as yet unsubstantiated claims made by the minister (that the state only paid for security enhancements at Nkandla and that the R240-million price tag was not correct) and claims made by President Zuma (that his family was paying for all non-security-related building work at Nkandla and that he was still paying off an as yet unnamed bond registered over Nkandla).

It is against this background that I requested the Public Protector to shine some light on President Zuma’s claims to the National Assembly about the financing of the non-security related parts of the building at Nkandla. The Public Protector is already investigating the state-sponsored “security”-related aspects of the upgrade. When President Zuma angrily told the National Assembly that he and his family were paying for all non-security-related building work at Nkandla and that he had registered a bond over Nkandla which he was still paying back, he opened the door for such an investigation.

This is because the Executive Members’ Ethics Act of 1998 empowers the Public Protector to investigate all alleged breaches of the Executive Ethics Code. Section 3.2 of this Code states that Members of the Executive may not wilfully mislead the legislature to which they are accountable; or act in a way that is inconsistent with their position; or use their position or any information entrusted to them, to enrich themselves or improperly benefit any other person; or use information received in confidence in the course of their duties otherwise than in connection with the discharge of their duties; or expose themselves to any situation involving the risk of a conflict between their official responsibilities and their private interests.

Section 3.1 of the Code requires every member of the Executive to declare all his or her personal or private financial or business interests, while section 4.1 of the Code further prohibits the members of the Executive from soliciting or accepting a gift or benefit. Section 5.1 of the Code further requires every member of the Executive – including the president – to disclose to the Secretary particulars of all their financial interests.

It may well be that the Code was strictly adhered to. After all, it would be foolish for the president to mislead the National Assembly, as the risk of being caught out is high. However, because of the lack of openness and transparency on the part of the Minister and the presidency, it is impossible to know this for certain.

This uncertainty was caused by the fact that City Press could not find evidence of a bond having been registered over Nkandla and because no information had been made available about which aspects of the Nkandla upgrade were being paid for by the State and which aspects President Zuma was paying for. Given the fact that the first phase of the building works at Nkandla was partly funded by various benefactors of the president as well as — indirectly — by a bribe solicited by Schabir Shaik from an arms-deal company, questions are being raised about whether all the non-security-related building work at Nkandla is indeed being funded by the president and his family as claimed.

I would be delighted if the Public Protector in due course finds that the president and his family are indeed paying for all the upgrades at Nkandla and that a bond was indeed registered over Nkandla as claimed. But given the lack of openness and transparency about the matter and in the absence of an investigation by the Public Protector, the questions and uncertainties will never be addressed and will linger on, like a septic wound. A Public Protector investigation will allow an appropriate amount of sunlight to shine on the affair, thus serving as a disinfectant against all the suspicions now hanging in the air.

I would think the presidency would welcome such an investigation. After all, when Mac Maharaj declined to provide details of the bond registered over Nkandla, he indicated that the presidency would be willing to provide details of such a bond to the appropriate legal authority. That legal authority is the Public Protector. Unfortunately, in the absence of a firm and principled commitment by the president to openness, transparency and accountability, only the Public Protector will be able to ensure that the disinfectant of openness and transparency does its salutary work.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Only those with nothing to hide welcome investigations.

  • Jeffman

    Well done Pierre, keep up the good work in exposing evil…

  • Mike

    In 1985 Vivien Reddy was a “bakkie electrical contractor” that sourced a lot of electrical work from the House of Delegates.
    Since 1994 this “previously disadvantaged” BEE contractor has obtained by his own admission to the media, billionare status.
    No other electrical contractor in Durban has ever achieved this kind result not even those in house departments to the listed construction companies like M&R LTA Group5 etc.
    Clearly the investigation needs to be more wide spread because the Chancellor House model finds its existence in the ANC in KZN in the major construction contracts in Durban where because of the BEE points system only Edision Power (aka Vivien Reddy) could effectively tender.
    One of the contracts being the Albert Luthuli Hospital where in addition our Uruguyan BEE contractor Gastion Savoi is on trial with KZN ANC department of health officials for Racketeering.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Ranjeni Munusamy ‏@RanjeniM

    Advocate Kevin Malunga is Thuli Madonsela’s new deputy. Appointment supported by all parties in parly

  • magabangeljubane

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 22, 2012 at 15:10 pm

    On this blog Kevin Malunga has repeatedly shown a dissapointing inability to consider matters disspasionately. I have always suspected he would be rewarded handsomely for this by the executive in whom he seems unable to ever find any fault, facts regardless.

    Hopefully he appraoches his professional duties differently (but since in the Hlophe matter, for example, he said there’s no point to cross examination because there are different versions, I won’t be holding my breath). Interestinger and interestinger.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    magabangeljubane
    November 22, 2012 at 17:43 pm

    Eish magabangeljubane,

    “[Kevin Malunga] said there’s no point to cross examination because there are different versions”

    He must have studied at the same graduate school as Dmwangi!

    If he did say that, he probably was also have been on woonga at the time.

  • Dmwangi

    @Maggs:

    Doubtful. It’s a shame you didn’t attend either. Could have taught you a thing or two about verb tense agreement. And you claim to be a lawyer?

    Stick to serving chai, dude!

  • StevenI

    Dmwangi

    And Maggs called me a racist……………………………………? (I’m waiting Maggs but I will not hold my breath) ;-)

    Dmwangi, by the way with before you criticize others grammar/diction check your spelling of approaches in your first post

  • StevenI

    “with before” = too many vodkas here in Moscow

  • Dmwangi

    @Stevenl:

    That was my first post. And I have no idea what this means: ‘…check your spelling of approaches in your first post.’

    Now, more importantly, while I am as disgusted by government corruption as any taxpayer ought to be, why is PdV fixated on this particular alleged manifestation of it? It represents a minuscule proportion of the economy, or even the fiscus. Instead of using this instance to make JZ the personification of corruption, in order to settle some petty political score, why not work to attenuate government malfeasance writ large? Removing JZ will not diminish corruption one iota and turning him into a scapegoat will only obscure us from engaging with this problem in a systematic and comprehensive way.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Dmwangi

    “Removing JZ will not diminish corruption one iota”

    Dmwangi is right. Let’s face it, Mr Zuma is small fry compared to world-historic giants of graft, like Haliburton, Kebble, Citigroup and Lance Armstrong. That is why I say we should let the Arms Deal Commission run it course, and deem Mr Zuma innocent until proven guilty!

    Thanks very much.

  • Beetle

    Dwangi

    Al capone was tried for tax evasion not murder.
    ….. and JZ should be investigated for allegedly diverting the taxpayer’s money into his luxury compound.
    What he did was a slap in the face of the poor.

    You can perhaps change the voting persuasion of the majority electorate by exposing the alleged misdoings at Nkandla.
    The Poor, quite understandably, reckon the currency of governance in terms of housing, food, jobs and education. Freedom of the press, and abstact debate about the doings of the ConCourt do not register with people struggling to survive each day as it comes.
    The Poor [and I am one of them] can put a value on theft, when they see that someone they trusted, used taxpayer’s money to fund their multiMansion extavaganza, where that money might have been otherwise intended to build RDP houses.

  • Dmwangi

    @Beetle:

    ‘What he did was a slap in the face of the poor.’

    I agree.

    ‘You can perhaps change the voting persuasion of the majority electorate by exposing the alleged misdoings at Nkandla.’

    I am dubious about the possibility, or desirability, of this.

    ‘Freedom of the press, and abstact debate about the doings of the ConCourt do not register with people struggling to survive each day as it comes.’

    Absolutely. But my broader point still holds: we should not fool ourselves into believing that making examples of a few individuals will cure the deeply entrenched culture of corruption that permeates not only the public but also the private sector– oftentimes in unison with each other.

    I again propose a realistic, anti-maudlin solution: a Schumpeterian transparency mechanism a la South Korea or Japan.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 22, 2012 at 18:23 pm

    Hayibo,

    “And you claim to be a lawyer?”

    I did??? When??? I am but a humble T-Shirt seller – JR ordered 400 000 from me three years ago. I’m patiently waiting for the money – no sign of JR or the $$$$ yet!

    If by “verb tense” you are referring to “was also have been” – eish, shit happens. For the record, I don’t correct grammar here unless the meaning is affected. If it’s hard for you to understand – try and tray and try again; never give up!

    p.s. StevenI is RACIST. He called Brett a wooden rock spider. WDYSTT?

    p.p.s. StevenI also thinks you’re a dimwit. Ok I lie – you think you’re a dimwit!!!!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    StevenI
    November 22, 2012 at 18:58 pm

    Hey StevenI,

    “And Maggs called me a racist…”

    Don’t be coy about it. Some of my best friends are racist.

    p.s. You can only be racist if you are WHITE – Dworky will explain!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    Probably the six/seventh post on the same subject. To be brutally frank, this is getting boring now.

    He is like a fucking broken record. Such obsession can not be healthy for the soul.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    Dmwangi November 22, 2012 at 19:35 pm

    You know as well as I do why he is fixated on this specific individual who happens to take pride in his ‘patriarchal’ chauvenist African culture. As I said on a different thread, do not ever be fooled by his diatribes against socalled ‘whiteness’, for it is a smokescreen for another agenda. He is the worst kind kind of racist. The ultimate hypocrite. The ‘white liberal’ as Biko called them.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    @maggs

    What do you make of Potch boet? Looks like even the ANC supports the DA now. LOL.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    One can easily see overt forms of racism: killings, torture, police brutality, and discrimination. However, covert racism is more difficult to deal with. This covert form is personified by the desire of some whites to do something for the black South Africans. In an earlier time, this idea was called “the white man’s burden.” White man’s burden or noblesse oblige (it sounds better in French) is the idea that whites have a moral obligation to bring civilization, culture, and Christianity to ignorant and uneducated savages dwelling on the “Dark Continent”. To be fair, many would not use this terminology, especially in more recent times. However, the underlying concept is that of white superiority over blacks.

    To Woods’ credit, he was able to speak out against racism and apartheid and still not attempt to dominate or control the self-expression of blacks. Black South Africans had to navigate between the racists who wanted to keep them down and those few whites who wanted to help. In one sense, white liberals were more dangerous to the movement of liberation, because they wanted to do for blacks what blacks had to do for themselves, and Biko knew this. And yet to both their credits, Biko and Woods worked out a relationship of equals.’

    http://www.wolverton-mountain.com/articles/donald_woods_a_white_liberal_w.htm

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    And now white liberals have blacks eating right out of their hand. A constant diet of AA and BEE mixed with good helpings of a sense of uselessness suplemented by an endless capacity for self-pity.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Dmwnagi

    “I again propose a realistic, anti-maudlin solution: a Schumpeterian transparency mechanism a la South Korea or Japan.”

    Dmwangi, I am with you 100%: but only if it is paired with an authentic Heideggarian self-disclosure program, as in Saxony, Bavaria and the Benelux!

    Thanks.

  • Willem Wikkelspies

    the President and the President’s spin doctor have not dealt with the upgrade of President Jacob Zuma’s Nkandla homestead in an open, transparent and accountable manner
    ******************************************
    Sadly , in Africa nothing much changes and since 1994 the ANC has done nothing to disprove the globally worn adage that Democracy in Africa is the election of the incompetent and corrupt by the ignorant and illiterate.

  • Brett Nortje

    Huge blog. Well done.

  • Michael Osborne

    @ Wikkelspies

    ” the ANC has done nothing to disprove the globally worn adage that Democracy in Africa is the election of the incompetent and corrupt by the ignorant and illiterate.”

    You may be right, but why “Africa” only? One could point to many such cases in Latin America and Asia.

  • Blue Ozone

    Michael Osborne
    November 23, 2012 at 7:02 am

    True. Corruption can be found everywhere and is more prevalent in a certain type of political/economic system. I have posted corruption figures from both the US and Cuba/other Caribbean counterparts before.

    But there is also a specific tendency under white liberals to focus on one type of corruption and to use it to manipulate popular opinion in favour of certain political outcomes.

  • Blue Ozone

    @mfd

    Excuse for asking about what should be obvious. But what is a “Chumpeterian transparency mechanism”.

    Brett called me a “chump” just the other day.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    King’s travel tab hits R800K a month

    King Goodwill Zwelithini and his entourage spent more than R800 000 a month on flying in private jets and helicopters to perform official duties including attending funerals and weddings.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/king-s-travel-tab-hits-r800k-a-month-1.1429272#.UK8VLGdq18F

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Michael Osborne
    November 23, 2012 at 7:02 am

    Hey Prof,

    “You may be right, but why “Africa” only? One could point to many such cases in Latin America and Asia.”

    Well spotted Prof!

    Fortunately the developed (aka Western) world has rid itself from such practices, nè!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 23, 2012 at 8:12 am

    Blue Boy,

    “Brett called me a “chump” just the other day.”

    Eish that Brett, he’s so slow – he was alerted to that years ago!

  • Dmwangi

    Because of Mr. Maggs Naidu’s attitude I usually don’t respond to his ruminations, but this time I’ll make an exception. In the text that follows, when I quote from Maggs, I will use the word “excrement” in place of another word which is now apparently permitted in general circulation publications and which I have edited out. I find that I am embarrassed. I am embarrassed that some people just don’t realize that he used to be a major proponent of immoralism. Nowadays, Maggs is putting all of his support behind cynicism. As they say, plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    Maggs has secretly been pooh-poohing the reams of solid evidence pointing to the existence and operation of a malapert coterie of savagism. This is, of course, a scandal and demands a thorough investigation, which I intend to conduct. I expect to find that someone just showed me a memo supposedly written by Maggs. The memo spells out his plans to dispense bread and circuses to careless peculators to entice them to have more impact on Earth’s biological, geological, and chemical systems during our lifetime and our children’s than all preceding human generations had together. If this memo is authentic, it tells us that I’m convinced that Maggs will make things worse in the immediate years ahead. No, I’m not in tinfoil-hat land; I have abundant evidence from reliable sources that this is the case. For instance, I will sincerely not bow to coercion, intimidation, or the threat of violence. One should therefore conclude, ipso facto, that like a verbal magician, he knows how to lie without appearing to be lying, how to bury secrets in mountains of garbage-speak.

    Others have stated it much more eloquently than I, but Maggs is not above the law. But let’s not lose sight of the larger, more important issue here: Maggs’s malign double standards. I want to thank him for his missives. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how tasteless Maggs can be. A final note: Mr. Maggs Naidu’s collaborators have a tendency to say very similar things about him, as if they’re quoting from scripture.

  • Michael Osborne

    @ Maggs

    “Fortunately the developed (aka Western) world has rid itself from such practices, nè!”

    Maggs, not entirely so. See Madoff, ENRON, WMD’s, the 2000 election in Florida, the BBC, lavish country houses for Westminster MP’s, etc.

    But you may find that, like many things, it is a matter of degree. We may never know whether Swaziland is more or less corrupt than Greece. But I think most of us have a fairly clear idea how Denmark ranks vis a vis Nigeria, nè?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Dmwangi, what a brilliant excoriation of our Maggs! Did you write it all yourself? Or have a researcher do the first draft for you?

    Thanks!

  • Thomas

    “I would be delighted if the Public Protector in due course finds that the President and his family are indeed paying for all the upgrades at Nkandla and that a bond was indeed registered over Nkandla as claimed.”

    I can bet R5 that even if the Public Protector clears the president that you will never be satisfied and you will find another reason to “attack” Zuma.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Michael Osborne
    November 23, 2012 at 9:02 am

    LOL Prof.

    Some are just better at writing laws than others – I guess the UK did much better with Blair/BAE/Saudi arms deal than we did. Germany as you know until recently encouraged its businesses to engage in corruption outside Germany. And then there Italy and the randy President …

    Thing is though, when people speak of “the election of the incompetent and corrupt by the ignorant and illiterate” they quite ignore the reality that the “incompetent and corrupt” are much more adept at reaching the voters than their political competitors.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 23, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Dworky – that’s derived from some software on the net.

    I’m confident that Dmwangi did not post that – some OTHER wanker did.

  • Gwebecimele

    Nkandla is nothing, here we pay R59m pa and there is no limit.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/king-s-travel-tab-hits-r800k-a-month-1.1429272

  • Pierre De Vos

    It is a truth universally acknowledged (as Jane Austen might have said) that somebody who professess boredom with the content of an argument has lost the argument utterly and completely.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Thomas

    By the way Prof: I asked this before: Why is it that opposition parties and rich people can have urgent applications to court but poor/middle class people cannot do the same?

    A friend of mine was fired for no reason, they called it restructuring. This is his story: He was first transferred to another site. A month later got a section 189 letter informing him that the position he was in was redundant. Was consulted on the 25th of the month and at month end was retrenched. The restructuring only involved him. He took the case to the CCMA and won. The company took the case to the Labour court. Two years later the case is still with the court. The company keeps on delaying the process by offering him monetary compensation (firstly R80 000 and now R120 000). This is for someone who was earning four (4) times that amount a year. My friend has now received a job that pays much less but in the mean time lost his house and car. Why are these cases not “urgent”.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Pierre De Vos
    November 23, 2012 at 9:59 am

    PdV,

    “ahs”?????

    You meant OzoneBoy, didn’t you?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Hayibo!

    Zackie Achmat is a counter-revolutionary, reactionary, #CleverBlack who brazenly says Zuma must go.

    Just wait and see – me and Dworky will vote for PROFESSOR Zuma again and again (in the same circumstances that is).

    “The ANC today is no longer the party I joined in prison during 1980″ – Zackie Achmat …

    “My support will never go to the DA if President Jacob Zuma is re-elected, I hope that an alternative social-democratic party will arrive and if not I will spoilt my ballot.” …

    “President Zuma is not leading the country, he is looting the state and I don’t say that to support the ANCYL which I think promotes the same agenda.”

    “The country needs non-racial, moral leadership, based primarily on but not only young people. We need to reconstruct society with very simple priorities and that is to make the country safe, to improve our schools, to increase investment for decent job creation and to keep people healthy and for that you need an open, honest government and unity among the broadest layer of people in South Africa”.

    http://writingrights.nu.org.za/2012/11/23/the-anc-today-is-no-longer-the-party-i-joined-in-prison-during-1980-zackie-achmat/

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    I agree with ZA. Lets all vote for Solidariteit next time.

  • Gwebecimele

    http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2012-11-23-the-lula-moment-and-this-country-of-ours-south-africa

    Great article but my challenge with people like Jay, Pityana, Netshitenze and others is that they gave birth to this “monster” that we are dealing with today. Their silence and then approval during their term in office of what was clearly becoming a “Problematic ANC” is well documented. Why should we now believe their judgement and sincerity on our political developments. All of us agree on what the problems are but less is said about how we got to be where we are today. Many of yesterdays “best brains” have turned out to be nothing but sellers of our revolution in exchange for BEE favours or world recognition.

    I admire Jay’s new found “caring energy” but he ows us explanations.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Gwebecimele
    November 23, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Hey Gwebs,

    “Great article but my challenge with people like Jay, Pityana, Netshitenze and others is that they gave birth to this “monster” that we are dealing with today.”

    Yep.

    All these okes have refined the art of talking crap.

    We know all this kak.

    Nothing about tangible and practical to-do stuff, no programme of action, nothing.

    Kumi Naidoo chains himself to the whaling ship, enduring hours of being blasted by icy water cannons.

    All these okes you mention spend hours writing and recycling the same bullshit, each one sounding more self-impressed than the other.

    The only oke who in recent times has shown balls and leadership has been Julius Malema (as crooked and misguided as he was).

  • Gwebecimele

    The “corruption foundation” as in tenders was laid during………………………..whose time?

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/rise-up-against-corruption-mbeki-1.1429378

  • StevenI

    If you have time and want an interesting read look at these reports:

    http://www.jplandman.co.za/Corruption.aspx

    They show who is actually discovering fraud and I’m afraid it isn’t the media.

    What would be very interesting is to see how much (if any) of institutional checks and balances have declined during the Zuma administration

  • StevenI

    By the way JP is an Afrikaner who see’s the positives in SA.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “The only oke who in recent times has shown balls and leadership has been Julius Malema”

    Maggs, I have told you before that Mr Malema is a spent force.

    Nevertheless, I would vote for him again, if only I had the time.

  • Gwebecimele

    Mashatile, who is also the arts minister, was speaking at a Daily Maverick conference in Johannesburg.

    He said the party needed a new “young” generation of leaders.

    “There is a view that the ANC is very divided and therefore there is going to be blood on the floor when we get to (the elective conference) in Mangaung,” he said.

    “Our approach is that that conference should be orderly… because what the delegates are doing is to exercise the right to choose a collective of leadership that they believe will be able to carry the organisation forward.”

    Members who suggested that those who contested elections in the African National Congress were creating divisions were “incorrect”.

    “Leadership must not be by arrangement; it must be an expression of the will of members, who must have an opportunity to choose freely,” he said.

    “When you are a member of the ANC your responsibility is to serve the people. The ANC is not the place for self-enrichment,” he said, to laughs from the audience

  • Olds

    “It represents a minuscule proportion of the economy, or even the fiscus.”

    Us teagirls have started a new game in the kitchen: what we who earn five figures per annum (micro-miniscule economy) could achieve with this “miniscule amount”

    We recon that it could provide 240 of us with enough education to become poor, i.e. 6 figures per annum.

    Eish! Why does the pressie need that much security anyway? We the unmentionably poor love him, or that which he represents. Otherwise why would we ignorant and uneducated keep voting for him?

  • Olds

    I.O.w Zuma is not the only one in the habit of slapping the faces of the poor. It seems to be the norm amongst the educated and not-so-poor.

  • Olds

    Corruption happens everywhere else in the world, but we do not see the people there being shot for protesting. Teargas and water cannons maybe, but shot?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Michael Osborne
    November 23, 2012 at 7:02 am

    Hey Prof,

    I’m fascinated by the use of “the ignorant and illiterate” by those who are dissatisfied with the outcome of the democratic processes

    In our context that probably refers to ANC supporters.

    Would it be accurate to say that the converse of this is that people who don’t vote for “the incompetent and corrupt” i.e. the ANC, are neither ignorant nor illiterate?

  • Blue Ozone

    Pierre De Vos
    November 23, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Well I’m sorry if I’m bored to death by you, the media and the DA perpetually beating the “corruption” drum. Ad nauseum, ad infinito. and ignoring anything else that has to do with real politics and policy. You remind me of that Irishman Paddy on the way back from the pub with his good bud Mick. “well lo’k over there” says Mick – “that looks like a foken piece of shit to me”. “No, no, no lad” says Paddy, “I don’t think that is a piece of shit”, getting down on all fours to smell it. “Wooah, well it could be a piece of shit, its certainly smells like a foken piece of shit – but I’m not sure, Mick.”says Paddy. So, not entirely convinced Paddy picks up the lump of shit with both hands to examine its texture. “You know what lad,” says Paddy, “it also feels like a foken piece of shit too, it may very well be a piece of shit but how can we be absolutely, sure?” Mick says, “so what does it foken taste like?” Paddy, hesitating for one second, then sticks a finger in it and lays it on the tongue. “Aaarghh…” shouts Paddy, “it tastes like foken shit” dropping it and recoiling in absolute disgust.

    The two carefully navigate around it stumbling on without saying a word for a block or two. Then Paddy breaks the silence. “You know what Mick, bud” – “just as well we saw that foken piece of shit, otherwise we could have stepped in it.”

  • Beetle

    Ignorant and illiterate is a reflection of the loop created by an incompetent government. Such persons should have been liberated from that loop with the provision of good education starting 18 years ago. I an I does not imply that the poor do not have worth, dignity, ambitions and dreams.

    So – Zakkie Achmat will spoil his ballot paper before voting for either a JZ led ANC or, heaven forbid ,the DA?
    With the next election I predict a big stayaway by the Ignorant and Illiterate. Loyalty dies hard, and a stayaway is a progression toward disengaging that loyalty.
    The DA has probably reached a ceiling but will benefit percentage-wise by a reduced ANC vote.

  • Gwebecimele

    Sdumo, Blade, MKVA and Mac will certainly respond to this message.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Zuma-obsessed-with-re-election-Mazibuko-20121123

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Adriaan Basson, wanna bet?

    Streetwise Two on the table!

    President Jacob Zuma is divisive, scandal-plagued, and unpopular, but against the odds he looks likely to retain his position after an upcoming ANC conference chooses its leader.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/11/23/zuma-set-to-be-re-elected-at-mangaung-amid-scandals

  • Blue Ozone

    Beetle
    November 23, 2012 at 16:02 pm

    The point is it doesn’t matter if JZ leads the ANC or not. It remains a piece of shit. The best the rest of us can do is to stop examining it to death pretending it is something else, that there is some hidden gem somewhere inside it that may just come to shine through if we polish it long enough.

    The best for South Africa to do right now is to support JZ, our prez, changing leadership mid term will just result in more and totally unnecessary governmental chaos.

  • Blue Ozone

    As I said when this “story” broke.

    “Still paying a bond’

    In South Africa, a “bond” describes a mortgage loan, in which the bank has the option to seize and sell the property in the case of a default in repayment. The difference between that and another form of loan, one without security, or secured against other assets, is largely technical, but could become a political football – because last week Zuma told Parliament that he was paying off the former.

    “I engaged the banks and I am still paying a bond on the first phase of my home,” said Zuma, speaking off-the-cuff during parliamentary questions. ” … I am still paying a bond to this day.””

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-11-20-fnb-we-couldnt-have-given-zuma-a-bond-for-nkandla

  • Olds

    “I an I does not imply that the poor do not have worth, dignity, ambitions and dreams.”

    No, not at all. But “Such persons should have been liberated from that loop with the provision of good education starting 18 years ago” implies that all the poor need is a liberal application of the magicure education to go away and stop bothering the rich and important people from fighting over pie. The Poor b.t.w. Are only poor in comparrison to the rich. They are not “a problem” or a different species, just people with little monetary means due to few business connections.

    So pie. That is what this is all about otherwise why would no-one make a big deal of the guy (presumably in govt) who signed that R240 000 000 out of treasury and into Zuma and the contractor’s pocket? Why is this person not being investigated by the Public Protector for mis-spending public funds instead of Zuma? Isn’t the person who commit the crime the guilty one, not the person who accidently benefits?

    We the poor know it is not about us but all about pie and how to use us to get a bigger slice.

  • joeslis

    @ Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    “Dmwangi, what a brilliant excoriation of our Maggs! Did you write it all yourself?”

    As Dmwangi has not denied it, we must assume the poisonous odium directed at Maggs was indeed penned by him. But he undeniably dropped a clanger by admitting that his delf-declared suzerainty over viperine manipulators of the public mind may enable him to instil a subconscious feeling of guilt in those of us who disagree with his opinions. That may not be the profoundest of insights to take away from such a long comment, but his doctrines are a spiritual syphilis that has now reached the tertiary stage, paresis and insanity.

  • Brett Nortje

    Sheez. Is Breitenbach contradicting himself or what? “Only
    guidelines”? LOL! I’m surprised he did not say “Only
    subordinate legislation”….

    The bottom line, my dear Andrew, is that in Australia and the UK – neither of
    which has a property clause enshrined in a written Constitution –
    every gun, every cartridge surrendered attracted compensation.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/firearm-compensation-appeal-heard-1.1428970

    Firearm compensation appeal heard
    November 22 2012 at 06:03pm

    Bloemfontein – Putting into law a system dealing with
    compensation for firearms surrendered implies that such
    compensation should be fully paid, the Supreme Court of Appeal
    heard on Thursday.

    “Clearly these provisions were not set up for exceptional
    aspects, but for large numbers that would apply for
    compensation,” said Peter Hordes, counsel for Justice Alliance
    of SA (Jasa).

    The SCA heard an appeal by Jasa on aspects of market value
    compensation for firearms surrendered to police.

    The appeal relates to 2009, when the Western Cape High Court gave
    the minister for safety and security 90 days to establish
    guidelines for the payment of compensation.

    At issue are firearms voluntary surrendered to the State in
    circumstances as contemplated in section 137(5) of the Firearms
    Control Act (FCA).

    Hordes submitted the purpose of the FCA by the legislature was to
    get people to have fewer firearms.

    He said the act also indicated how the state should dispose of
    excess firearms in cases of forfeitures, seizures and voluntary
    surrenders.

    Hordes submitted Section 137 of the act made it clear that
    firearm owners who surrendered firearms to the state voluntarily
    under this provision would be compensated.

    It even prescribed the procedures for claiming.

    Andrew Breitenbach, for the Minister of Police, submitted the
    compensation aspect in the act only arose in the instance of a
    firearm of “special value”.

    The Central Firearms Registry (CFR) would receive a firearm by
    voluntary surrender, or a consignment of firearms, and decide it
    would have a “special value” to the state. Then the issue of
    compensation arose.

    Breitenbach submitted someone who handed an unwanted firearm in
    was not entitled to compensation, except if the state could get
    value from it.

    Referring to the guidelines, Breitenbach submitted it should be
    treated only as guidelines.

    He said the basis amounts for possible compensation, set out in
    the guidelines, were there to reach a goal of getting firearms
    out of the public domain.

    He said market value was irrelevant to this aim and was not the
    overriding criteria of the guidelines.

    Earlier, Jasa contended that the guidelines were a refusal to pay
    compensation, not a guideline to pay compensation.

    After the hearing, Jasa director John Smyth said the case was
    important to thousands of citizens in South Africa.

    “Thousands of people who surrendered their firearms between 2005
    and 2009 had been led to believe by police, because they filled
    in a form, that they would receive compensation” – SAPA

  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    Guidelines are an important part of measuring adherence to a statute.

    No statutory guidelines are “only guidelines”, they are a fundamental part of the operation of the statute.

    I’ve heard arguments like that before, usually its a clutching at straws exercise.

    I still think you guys should get the best evidence you have regarding gun ownership and violent crime levels and sue Gun Free SA, a good advocate will find the grounds – false advertising, misleading the public etc. If you win that …

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    “Would it be accurate to say that …people who don’t vote for “the incompetent and corrupt” i.e. the ANC, are neither ignorant nor illiterate?”

    Maggs, I am no expert of racialised voting patterns, but I saw a site somewhere saying that, because of Apartheid Education, blacks people are disproportionately illiterate. I read somewhere else that the vast majority of black people vote for the ANC. (Is that true?!) Some fool apparently drew the probably fallacious conclusion from these premises that an illiterate person is statistically more likely to vote for the ANC than any other party!

    WDYS?

    Thanks.

  • sirjay jonson

    OZ, your posts are getting so dry and boring. Please, surely you can come up with some growth, everyone does at some point. You are obviously a thinker, so why remain in the outhouse?

  • sirjay jonson

    Our concern need not be, nor should it be a form of apology for our own failings, that it exists elsewhere. Its a poor argument, actually meaningless.

  • sirjay jonson

    Thomas
    November 23, 2012 at 9:09 am

    Thomas what fantasy or dream are you living in? Do you really even for a moment think JZ is honest? Wow, talk about obsessive sycophancy, you and your fellows.

  • Dmwangi

    @Joeslis:

    Just when I thought the degenerate commentators on this blog could not devolve any further, you prove me wrong with infantile impersonations.

    While you are free to disagree with any of my comments, it would be appreciated if you at least attempt to address them prior to engaging in ad hominem jeremiads: viz. why do other single-party-dominated states with high levels of corruption, such as Japan and S. Korea, economically prosper, and have, comparably, an enviable degree of social mobility, while SA remains in stasis with millions trapped in poverty?

  • joeslis

    @ sirjay

    “… your posts are getting so dry and boring”

    “… and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant: they, too, have a story.” (from Desiderata)

  • Dmwangi

    One could even push this further and include China, Brazil and Italy.

  • Olds

    Oh hahahahahahaha! Flood the ship and watch the rats scurry. Dmwangi, please don’t use the poor’s name in vain’ we aren’t stupid or totally anaethetised by SABC, and the rest of you: if this the “brains” of South Africa…

    Oh my gosh!

  • sirjay jonson

    I have to admit that I don’t get it. Is sycophancy a form of magic where the brain is mystically dumb’d down, the conscientiousness, the honesty, the principles sliding away? Or is it just that the desire for self enrichment at all costs regardless of the harm created for one’s brothers and sisters. Jeesh, have these loyalists no idea of karma, not just for themselves but for their country and fellow citizens, and most certainly the economy, which after all determines everyone’s bottom line?

    How can truth flying in one’s face like cow paddies and a moist tail swishing you while you milk the royal teat, fail to reveal the truth.

    My apologies but Latin phrases haunt me at times and the one which drums away within my hopefully humble brain regarding the greedy, selfish sycophants we are so daily abused by in South Africa is the following:

    Ego et rex meus.

    Is this what they are thinking with such sweaty palm’s glee?

  • sirjay jonson

    joeslis
    November 23, 2012 at 20:17 pm

    “… and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant: they, too, have a story.” (from Desiderata)

    So, did Desiderata suggest one listens to them indefinitely. Somehow I rather doubt he meant that.

  • Olds

    At Sirjay _ that is: cow patties – the warm, brown, fragrant excrement that we peasants defrost our toes with on winter mornings, right before the Brotherhood of Distibutors put in oN your table as “prime steak”.

    Giggle’

  • sirjay jonson

    joeslis
    November 23, 2012 at 20:17 pm

    I do recall my favorite Cdn Prime Minister (I’m a Cdn/SAfrican) that he, Pierre Trudeau at a time of worry for Canadians, quoted the Desiderata by reassuring the nation that “the universe is unfolding as it should.”

    I don’t doubt this at all. However, I don’t have to like it.

  • Olds

    To what lengths would you Panda rich go to protect the people you feed on?

  • sirjay jonson

    Olds
    November 23, 2012 at 20:44 pm

    Thats exactly it Olds, the same bio matter our gate keeping dogs roll in with such joy before ensconcing themselves on our beds.

  • Olds

    I could be symhathetic Sirjay, if we could afford dogs, or even police to protect us. Please remember that ‘The Democracy’ deals with the “majority”. That means us smelly unwashed that can be killed on the orders of those who might soon be our president…. All hail Ramaphosa!

  • sirjay jonson

    joeslis
    November 23, 2012 at 18:40 pm

    “… spiritual syphilis”

    Ahh, what a crisp and valid depiction of our deranged elite; A social pseudo-democratic syphilitic disease; see spin helplessly failing, foolishly embracing bullshit while willingly and enthusiastically infecting all who are grievously open to such a diseased and virulent pathogen for personal gain.

    Thus it is virtually incurable for those with no intelligence to recognize they must heal themselves through awareness and determined self discipline. However, it is still the most dangerous and disgusting social disease which all need to wisely avoid.

    But to avoid it one must be faithful and hold some significance intelligence with good intent.

  • sirjay jonson

    Apologies: ‘significant’ intelligence with good intent.

  • Blue Ozone

    One things for sure. But me or my kids won’t be Julius Malema’s maids. And I dont’ care about you fuken pseudo “revolution” no more.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneblue

    “me or my kids won’t be Julius Malema’s maids”

    Funny you should mention that, OB, because my nephew started work on November 15 as Floyd Shivambu’s butler. So far, he’s loving every minute!

    WDYS?

  • Blue Ozone

    @mfd

    I’m saying if it looks like shit and smells like shit, it is shit. I don’t need a foken “constitutional expert” to try and convince me.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 23, 2012 at 20:13 pm

    Awww DM,

    “Just when I thought the degenerate commentators on this blog could not devolve any further, you prove me wrong with infantile impersonations.”

    Ok – you surprised me.

    I didn’t think that you would stoop to that – as you see above (November 23, 2012 at 9:14 am), I refuted the possibility.

    Ok, Dworky – I concede. DM is more stupid than I thought.

    Running an auto-complaint generator is not so difficult (or smart) http://www.pakin.org/complaint

  • Blue Ozone

    @maggs

    LOL. Brilliant. This is going to save PdV and the rest of our white liberals a hell of a lot of time!

    “I don’t know how to tell you this, but a real fight against unrealistic gnosticism can be undertaken only if a basic change in social conditions makes it possible to unveil the semiotic patterns that ANC utilizes to make a cause célèbre out of its campaign to set the hoops through which we all must jump. When writing this letter, I had originally intended to segregate the pure errors of fact in its comments from the assertions of questionable judgment where there could be room for dispute. I eventually decided against that approach because it is not uncommon for ANC to victimize the innocent, penalize the victim for making any effort to defend himself, and then paint the whole cantankerous affair as some great benefit to humanity. Although I can no more change the past than see the future, it’s safe to say that I’m no psychiatrist. Still, from the little I know about psychiatry I can indisputably say that ANC seems to exhibit many of the symptoms of Asperger’s syndrome. I don’t say that to judge but merely to put ANC’s longiloquent rodomontades into perspective. ANC throws a temper tantrum every time I suggest that it has a massive superiority complex. There’s nothing controversial about that view. It’s a fact, pure and simple. It was a fact long before anyone realized that ANC’s beliefs are evil. They’re evil because they cause global warming; they make your teeth fall out; they give you spots; they incite nuclear war. And, as if that weren’t enough, talking about ANC in the highly charged vortex of nonrepresentationalism is always burdened with agitation and diversion. That much is crystal clear. But did you know that a stockpile of ANC quotes favoring particularism could fill a junkyard? That’s why I’m telling you that I feel that ANC has insulted everyone with even the slightest moral commitment. It obviously has none or it wouldn’t dilute the nation’s sense of common purpose and shared sacrifice.

    Now, I don’t mean for that to sound pessimistic, although I’ve found that most empty-headed, small-minded fence-sitters display complete and utter nescience of ANC’s slogans. To help educate them, let me say a little about how if the human race is to survive on this planet, we will have to rally good-hearted people to the side of our cause. To make a long story short, the statism “debate” is not a debate. It is a harangue, a politically motivated, brilliantly publicized, vapid attack on progressive ideas.

    Whenever ANC encounters a free-thinking individual who presents factual data that conflicts with ANC’s beliefs, it doesn’t know what to do. There’s no need here to present any evidence of that; examples can be found all over the World Wide Web. In fact, a simple search will quickly reveal that someone has been giving ANC’s brain a very thorough washing, and now ANC is trying to do the same to us. ANC has a vested interest in maintaining the myths that keep its entourage loyal to it. Its principal myth is that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups. The truth is that I admit I have a tendency to become a bit insensitive whenever I rebuke ANC for trying to exclude all people and proposals that oppose its inimical ideas. While I am desirous of mending this tiny personality flaw, what I wrote just a moment ago is not the paranoid rambling of a deplorable wacko. It’s a fact. In a nutshell, what ANC is doing is akin to painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa.”

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    [Zackie Achmat] said “the tragedy” was the ANC had failed the country’s working class and poor.

    “For example last night (Wednesday), Minister (Nathi) Mthethwa went to pray about crime in Khayelitsha and the only reason he did was to attack the O’Regan Commission of Inquiry and to vilify organisations such as the Social Justice Coalition.

    “He should instead be working with us to make communities safe.”

    http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/jz-goes-or-i-do-zackie-achmat-1.1429373#.ULBlu2dq18F

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 24, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Maggs/. The ANC will not tolerate a democratic challenge to their power. If ZA think this can be done successfully, after all what we all saw happening in Zim, then I want to question his grip on reality. This is in my opinion confrontational politics that doesn’t work in Africa. If the ANC failed, and I think we all agree that is the case, then the only solution is to consider a re-partitioning of South Africa, as Brett has suggested on another thread.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ “the only solution is to consider a re-partitioning of South Africa”

    Brilliant idea. Why not take this up with Mr Zuma, for whom you feel some affection, despite the fact that he just happens to lead an organisation you deem to be utterly degenerate?

  • Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 24, 2012 at 9:18 am

    So what is your solution, a civil war? Another 1000+ blog articles from liberal whites and racist blacks deploring the incurably “corrupt” ANC on the one hand, and on the other hand threatening a policy of systematic genocide against a tiny minority that is guaranteed to devastate our land.

    “Cosatu spokesperson Patrick Craven repeated the recent call by the labour federation’s secretary general Zwelinzima Vavi that South Africa should have a “Lula moment”. The “Lula moment” refers to former Brazilian president Lula da Silva’s decisive political leadership during his second term which led to economic growth in the South American country. Cosatu believes that President Jacob Zuma should take a leaf out of Lula’s book if he does get a second term.

    Mngxitama, however, thought differently. He received a round of applause from the audience when he dismissed the “Lula moment” in favour of Zimbabwe-style land reform.”

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/incoming/2012/11/23/take-land-zim-style

    Note the above sentence – “He received a round of applause from the audience”

  • Olds

    @Blue Ozone – “They’re evil because they cause global warming; they make your teeth fall out; they give you spots; they incite nuclear war.”

    You forgot the single most evil thing they’ve done, which is to invite the Chinese to invade, killing our ragtrade, fishing industry, etc. In exchange for: mirrors and beads. Gets them every time :)

    It makes one wonder about the first invasion of Africa.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Eish!

    What a twit.

    “I did not know that electricity could be connected to a mud structure. It is the leadership of the ANC that brought that,” he said.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/da-a-party-of-white-madams-mzimande-1.1429872#.ULDCLWdq18E

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 24, 2012 at 14:58 pm

    Should enjoy that. So much hatred directed towards WHITES.

    And then, just a couple of sentences later – the standard PC bullshit:

    “Nzimande said the ANC was the only organisation that could build South Africa as a non-racial, non-sexist and democratic society.”

  • Dmwangi

    @Maggs:

    I don’t know how you possibly misinterpreted my comment but I did not ‘excoriate’ you at:

    Dmwangi
    November 23, 2012 at 8:57 am

    More than likely this was the handiwork of one of your half-brothers: MDF or JR. Aside from them, you’re the only one on this blog juvenile enough to cyber-impersonate someone.

    Now feel free to address my question of why other corrupt single-party states are/have been able to sustain high economic growth and RSA has not?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 24, 2012 at 17:06 pm

    Hey DM,

    As I started reading your comment, I prepared myself to withdraw my comment that you are more stupid than I thought.

    Then I came across “you’re the only one on this blog juvenile enough to cyber-impersonate someone”.

    Correction : I understated.

    A double-eish!!!!!

  • Dmwangi

    @Maggs:

    ‘Then I came across “you’re the only one on this blog juvenile enough to cyber-impersonate someone”.’

    That’s not quite accurate. I said: ‘Aside from….’ I put you in the excellent company of MDF and JR.

    Now, I’m done with you unless you want to do prof. MO proud and actually address the issue at hand.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 24, 2012 at 17:53 pm

    Hey DM,

    The “issue at hand” (apart from you wanking, that is (p/i)) is Nkandla: why an open and transparent approach is needed.

    The short version is Zuma does not know anything about anything.

    Someone should force feed him with info so he will stop saying “I don’t know about that. It’s not my job”.

    It seems that he does not know what the job of a president is. Nor does he know what a crook is. And he does not know what his own vision is.

    But in all that ignorance about EVERYTHING, he claimed that he knows what he is doing.

    His apparent COMPOUND stupidity reminds me of you – hey you did a President Zuma impersonation!

    Zuma’s version is that inbetween his more frequent foreign travels than the regularly absentee then President Mbeki, unzipping faster than Chuck Norris runs the four-minute-mile, dishing out lobola on rapid-fire – he arrives at his COMPOUND to find massive construction going on for stuff he did not ask for, does not know about, does not need. And he did not bother to find out who, what, why, how much.

    Triple eish!!!!

  • Dmwangi

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 24, 2012 at 18:08 pm

    So let’s stipulate that everything you say here is true (a heroic assumption but nevertheless….). Would a change of leadership make any difference? Let’s assume JZ has committed graft of around R10b. What percentage of the fiscus is that? It’s picayune. Surely not enough to affect the man in the street. So, at best, we can say that if all goes well and JZ is removed and replaced by someone of impeccable character (Motlanthe?), which is another heroic assumption, there *might* be a change in example and tone about corruption that has a cascading influence on the rest of government but is unlikely to be significant enough to provide the revenues necessary to substantially improve services, and hence the common man will hardly notice the difference.

    I again submit that the problem is larger than JZ. While good leadership would help, thinking this problem can be solved by ousting one individual is dangerously naive.

  • Dmwangi

    Maggs:

    The Chinese CP is orders of magnitude more corrupt than the ANC. Yet China’s economy grows, and grows, and grows? Why is that?

    It’s because they have an intensely competitive (dare I say, Schumpeterian) corruption market, in which agents must actually produce quite a lot of output in order to gain access to rent-seeking opportunities. This is obviously less efficient than a corruption-free society but men are not angels and Marx’s utopia will not be coming anytime soon. Point is, depressing (or uplifting depending on your pov) as we may find it, it’s possible to economically prosper in the midst of a bastion of corruption if the incentives are structured properly.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 24, 2012 at 18:38 pm

    Dm,

    “I again submit that the problem is larger than JZ. While good leadership would help, thinking this problem can be solved by ousting one individual is dangerously naive.”

    Indeed.

    The entire lot must go – the entire cabinet!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Dmwangi
    November 24, 2012 at 18:53 pm

    Dm,

    The difference between the current crop of ANC leaders and leaders of high growth countries is that ours don’t give a fuck about anyone else but themselves – no decent human being would remain a member of this cabinet.

    No, I don’t think Motlanthe is a good leader – but at least he would make sure the rules are strictly followed wrt his own conduct and functioning. But that’s another debate.

    We don’t have any good leadership possibilities yet.

    At Leslie Dikeni’s Book launch a few nights ago , Mandla Nkomfe: MEC Finance GP asked to be introduced as Activist, not MEC – I got the sense that he’s ashamed to be associated with government at senior level!

    As Zackie Achmat points out, we desperately need a new political party and political leadership.

  • Dmwangi

    ‘We don’t have any good leadership possibilities yet.’

    I agree. That’s why instead of waiting around for these leaders to show up we should try to muddle through the way the Asian tigers did- Japan, China, SK.

    ‘The difference between the current crop of ANC leaders and leaders of high growth countries is that ours don’t give a fuck about anyone else but themselves’

    Nah. Members of the CP standing committee are not saints. They all have billions stashed in offshore accounts. Something like 70% of them have arranged for dual residency with other countries so if things collapse they can make a hasty exit.

    The real difference is that in China, and the Asian countries more generally, in order to gain access to patronage favours one must *perform.* Whether as a bureaucrat, or running a state-owned enterprise (which basically means any org of decent size), or even increasingly executives of 100% ‘private’ firms, your contribution to GDP is rigorously measured. Fail to meet your target and you’re gone. Continually exceed it and more and more govt largesse will be bestowed upon you, until you’re eventually a member of the ‘shareholder class.’ This is how ‘state-driven’ (or capitalism with ‘Asian values’ as they say) capitalism works. It’s corruption with incentives. Some local politician in a far-flung province exceeds his GDP mandate, he’s rewarded with a shady land deal.

    We have nothing like that. Here rent-seeking has no correlation to output. It’s basically dependent upon the personal/family connections you have.

    Is their system perfect? No. But the question should always be a comparative one: might it be better at this point given the realistic alternatives?

  • Dmwangi

    ‘Some local politician in a far-flung province exceeds his GDP mandate, he’s rewarded with a shady land deal.’

    Just imagine if government officials had to meet economic metrics in order retain access to their ‘perquisites.’

  • Dmwangi

    ‘Some local politician in a far-flung province exceeds his GDP mandate, he’s rewarded with a shady land deal.’

    Just imagine if government officials in Limpopo had to meet economic metrics in order retain access to their ‘perquisites.’

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    We’re so desperate for anything which resembles good leadership that Tito Mboweni is resorting to gems.

    Mboweni (who I am fond of) has not been able to point to a single tangible achievement – rather he does the vague-broadspeak putting out a lot of words which means bugger all.

    Perhaps deliberately?

    “Mbeki’s abilities as a leader and intellectual were evident in his recent naming as the Daily Trust 2012 African of the Year.

    Perhaps, as the Bible says, prophets are not recognised in their own country but in far away places,” said Mboweni.

    http://www.citypress.co.za/Politics/News/Mbeki-celebrated-across-Africa-despite-detractors-at-home-Mboweni-20121124

  • Olds

    I wonder if the French “aristocracy” visited each other (pre-internet) and ruminated about power-share in like fashion, quite forgetting that the peasants have eyes and ears and use them.

    “The Chinese CP is orders of magnitude more corrupt than the ANC. Yet China’s economy grows, and grows, and grows? Why is that?”

    They did not need to dumb down their considerable workforce first, merely keep them that way on starvation rations and hopes of elevation in the party if they do well, as pointed ou by Dmwangi. In addition, which is why they are more successful than the Ruskies at it, they hold out the ultimate prize, liberation to the West working in a Chinatown (one in every city of the world) as sucessful agents of the cause. A little too Machiavellian maybe for this august body of thinkers? Let’s see.

    We the workers don’t give a dipstick who is in charge, as long we are able to live as well as work. Which, incidently explains the naughty riots recently.

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Dmwangi
    November 24, 2012 at 18:38 pm
    “I again submit that the problem is larger than JZ. While good leadership would help, thinking this problem can be solved by ousting one individual is dangerously naive.”

    You are so right! The problem can only be solved by ousting JZ with his entire party.

  • Blue Ozone

    @dmwangi

    “The real difference is that in China, and the Asian countries more generally, in order to gain access to patronage favours one must *perform.* Whether as a bureaucrat, or running a state-owned enterprise (which basically means any org of decent size), or even increasingly executives of 100% ‘private’ firms, your contribution to GDP is rigorously measured. Fail to meet your target and you’re gone. Continually exceed it and more and more govt largesse will be bestowed upon you, until you’re eventually a member of the ‘shareholder class.’ This is how ‘state-driven’ (or capitalism with ‘Asian values’ as they say) capitalism works. It’s corruption with incentives. Some local politician in a far-flung province exceeds his GDP mandate, he’s rewarded with a shady land deal. ”

    Interesting insights. So it is all *performance* and *merit* based. Not that a socialist system cannot be rigged the same way.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 24, 2012 at 19:48 pm

    It has fokkol to do with “leadership”. It is about values, ethics and morality as embraced by the community. In short it is about culture. A culture produces leaders, not the other way around.

    Catholic teaching: The new zeitgeist for Britain’s Left

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20154986

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    I’m not sure that an economy which is growing and growing is by itself a good thing.

    But DM does make a good point which I interpret as China (and India) with very fast growing economies despite their having even more corrupt leaders than us (as hard as that is to contemplate) have a better Gini-coefficient than we have. And better education, better health-care – arggggggghhh better everything.

    Of course we’re 20 years old; we’ll at least score better on the corruption index soon!!! :P

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 24, 2012 at 20:52 pm

    Crap OB.

    “A culture produces leaders, not the other way around.”

    If that is true, there would not have been the #ArabSpring across North Africa not so long ago.

  • Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 24, 2012 at 20:57 pm

    You know as well as I do that the “arab spring” has come about because of the suppression of a certain culture and the leaders it produced.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    UK gives £19million aid to South Africa – its president spends £17.5million on his palace

    It is a nation racked by poverty, where 13 million people survive on less than £1 a day, and two million have no access to a toilet.

    Yet as his people struggle in squalor, South African president Jacob Zuma has sparked outrage by spending £17.5 million to upgrade his rural family home.

    Lavish works – which include the construction of 31 new houses, an underground bunker accessed by lifts and a helipad – will cost almost as much as the £19 million British taxpayers send to South Africa in annual aid.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2238017/UK-gives-19million-aid-South-Africa–president-spends-17-5million-palace.html

  • Blue Ozone

    @maggs

    “Lavish works – which include the construction of 31 new houses, an underground bunker accessed by lifts and a helipad – will cost almost as much as the £19 million British taxpayers send to South Africa in annual aid.”

    Oh, but luckily the poor British taxpayers were bolstered by a £3 billion BAE arms deal in 1999 through their go-to-man Thabo Mbeki and British PM/BAE sales man Toenail Blair.

  • Blue Ozone

    While the good British taxpayers where also sponsoring the killer drones that butchers innocent Muslim families everywhere it is delivering “freedom and democracy” to the peoples of it former colonies. That is now after sponsoring an illegal invasion of Iraq which left millions dead/mutilated/homeless and just about devastated a relatively modern and progressive state.

    “Britain has deployed drones in Afghanistan since 2006 and last month it was announced that a new squadron of unmanned RAF drones controlled for the first time from terminals in Britain would begin operations over the country within weeks.

    But the use of drones is controversial because of fears that civilians can be killed and injured by them.

    Human rights campaigners claim that civilian deaths resulting from drone strikes constitute a war crime.

    The US has been particularly criticised for its programme of targeted drone killings against militants in Pakistan’s tribal heartlands.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9689530/MPs-to-hold-inquiry-into-use-of-drones.html

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    There is no difference between a drone and a manned aircraft. Both are piloted by humans and the decision to fire on a target is made by a human. All it means is that the controls can be utilized at home, which is cheaper in terms of money and lives at risk.

    Innocents die in warfare, as they always have in every conflict. In modern conflicts civilian deaths are a fraction of what they used to be. Human rights folk need to concentrate on target identification, not weapon deployment. People are going to die, its about making sure the right ones die (that depends on whose side you’re on of course).

    Of course that raises another issue which human rights folk cannot comprehend. The nature of warfare is to destroy your opponent and eliminate the threat thereof. Major powers lose wars to small players because they don’t fight a war “properly”.

  • Blue Ozone

    Zoo Keeper
    November 25, 2012 at 11:42 am

    So there is no difference between “war” and “extermination”. One assumes that in a “war” there are two combatants who are engaged in a conflict with more or less equal firing power.

    “Extermination” on the other hand is what you do with pests and other domestic nuisances. We don’t say we “go to war” with them, we “exterminate” them because they are totally powerless to fight back.

  • Alibama

    We read that when birds, baboons etc. raid crops, the loss from their direct
    consumption is insignificant compared to the general damage done by their
    ‘incompetent administration’.
    —–
    I’ll continue pasting the following question, until I get an answer/S
    == TIA
    Newsgroups: us.legal,misc.legal
    Subject: Do constitutional findings trump old precedents?

    This would more likely apply when a constitution is newish
    or newish case-topics are cause by new technology.

    If A argues that [old non constitutional derived] precedents:
    p1, p2..pn support his argument that “NO”;
    and B argues that constitutional findings C1,C2..Cn
    support his argument that “YES”;
    then does a finding, by the lower Court, which is based on the
    constitutional findings, replace older precedents,
    and without the constitutional Court having looked at the
    specific matter?

    I.e. the lower Courts use the [rea/logic] of the constitutional
    Court to over-rule their own previous precedents.

    So that a rule-clerk-mentality lawer would be trumped
    by one who could reason via the first principles of the
    constitution?

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    In war, which is what the major powers are getting wrong at the moment, you destroy your enemy, its military infrastructure and demoralize its supporters.

    War is war and must be understood as such, otherwise you’re going to lose – like the US has been doing for the last 50 years.

    In Vietnam political will was too weak to prosecute that war properly.

    That was a salient lesson in warfare. Especially important is that warfare is never engaged without clear purpose, and strong political will to see it through. Unfortunately, those who make war are not the same as those who fight it (how many politicians’ sons end up on the front line?). Probably why we have more wars than we should.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Alibama

    To keep it Simple: The AD ruled on a matter 70 years ago. 5 years ago a ruling is made by the ConCourt on an identical matter.

    The ConCourt ruling supercedes and replaces the AD precedent.

    There is a great description process of this by Lord Hoffmann in the House of Lords.

  • Blue Ozone

    Zoo Keeper
    November 25, 2012 at 13:56 pm

    I assume then most effective war would then be a total and complete genocide. Especially when “the enemy” is a certain culture phenomenon or when it is a ideology firmly embedded in the hearts and minds of common, everyday people.

    As in when the war was against Communism in Vietnam or South Africa, or against Islamic Fundamentalism in Pakistan or Afghanistan.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneboy

    “the use of drones is controversial because of fears that civilians can be killed and injured by them.”

    I read somewhere that the use of bombs and, for that matter, bullets, is also controversial, for similar reasons.

    Thanks.

  • Alibama

    Zoo Keeper}} warfare is to destroy your opponent and eliminate the threat hereof..
    Correct. The book ‘why the west HAS won’ analyses the wars since ancient-Greece,
    Roman..Anglo-Zulu..Midway..etc., and repeatedly shows how the West’s goal is
    to “destroy your opponent and eliminate the threat hereof” compared to the others
    who would consider the-game-over [for now] as soon as the opponents ran away.
    Eg. being cavalry chased and lanced was not what the fleeing Zulus expected.
    }}Major powers lose wars to small players because they don’t fight a war “properly”.
    Correct, and the Arabs are masters at the [non western] skills of deception.
    That’s why it’s so STOOPID for PdV to keep echoing the absurd chant of “NO WMD”.
    Ironically, you can NEVER eliminate the threat of Marxism, like they will
    never learn from housing-bubbles. The well documented knowledge must be
    continually RE-learned..

    ==> I’m going to re-paste this query until I get a reply:–
    Newsgroups: us.legal,misc.legal
    Subject: Do constitutional findings trump old precedents?

    This would more likely apply when a constitution is newish
    or newish case-topics are cause by new technology.

    If A argues that [old non constitutional derived] precedents:
    p1, p2..pn support his argument that “NO”;
    and B argues that constitutional findings C1,C2..Cn
    support his argument that “YES”;
    then does a finding, by the lower Court, which is based on the
    constitutional findings, replace older precedents,
    and without the constitutional Court having looked at the
    specific matter?

    I.e. the lower Courts use the [rea/logic] of the constitutional
    Court to over-rule their own previous precedents.

    So that a rule-clerk-mentality lawer would be trumped
    by one who could reason via the first principles of the
    constitution?

    ==TIA.

  • Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    November 25, 2012 at 14:18 pm

    So you agree then that the genocide aught to be the most humane and cost effective form of war?

    Lets say like simply dropping a nuclear device on Japan or Iran. Certainly such a strategy would be just as controversial as using bullets but it would be much more effective in destroying military infrastructure and “demoralising” its supporters.

  • Alibama

    Re. Arabs and ‘legally’ destroying peoples houses and can’t find WMD.
    I suspect that Islam is congruent with the gene-pool in the area that Islam has
    spread. Similarly different animals will experience to a greater or lesser
    extent: anger, revenge, jealousy, plus what WE don’t even KNOW; all determined
    by their genes. Perhaps some human-population-groups can ‘just get over it’,
    but I’ve often heard of the Palestinians up on the hills in refugee camps, who
    can point down to Israel to “that’s the house that my grandfather built and
    where I was born”. That my Afrikaans friend who was screwed out of his property
    and ‘just got over it’ is perhaps related to the Rugby mentality.
    I’m like the Palestinians, I want revenge. What about the Lenasia victims?

  • sirjay jonson

    Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
    November 25, 2012 at 10:08 am

    “UK gives £19million aid to South Africa – its president (small ‘p’) spends £17.5million (so far) on his palace.” That’s NINETEEN MILLION BRITISH POUNDS, a truly enormous amount of moola.

    Nothing quite clarifies the incredulity and cruel self centered selfishness at the expense of the country and the poor by our so-called president, than this glaring fact.

    The UK’s entire donation to SA for poverty alleviation will (keep in mind #Nkandla upkeep and annual expense with likely continued improvements) undoubted be totally utilized. The Brits are not at all happy. Nor are we. Other generous countries are also aware, and lets not forgets the valuable investors. A line in the sand must be drawn, regardless of Mangaung.

    Actually, it makes the whole issue as clear as distilled water. Question remains, how do the majority ANC voters become aware of this travesty, and will they care?

    file:///C:/ANC/UK%20media%20story%20on%20Nklanda.htm

  • Blue Ozone

    sirjay jonson
    November 25, 2012 at 18:27 pm

    Hey moron boy. None of us can view files stored on your own hard drive. How does one say in Latyn “get a fucking clue” ?

  • Blue Ozone

    Alibama
    November 25, 2012 at 16:40 pm

    We could have taken revenge on Britain/ the English but we never did. That is because of our Calvinist Christian upbringing that says always turn the other cheek.

    Islam has got nothing to do with “genes”, as with Calvanism, Islam is solely based on faith. Judiasm however seems to be another story.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Blue Ozone
    November 25, 2012 at 18:52 pm

    Hey Blue Boy,

    “None of us can view files stored on your own hard drive.”

    Speak for yourself!

    You do know now that I can “see” files on your hard drive, don’t you?

    And JR can track you down to within 2.4575 metres once I give him your IP address.

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    … Spearheading a coalition of eight opposition parties on a no confidence vote in the president was a masterstroke, which has left the ANC at sixes and sevens. With two contradictory messages emerging from the ANC in as many days on the no confidence vote in President Zuma, that the motion may not actually “see the light of debate day” doesn’t really matter.

    Two things were achieved anyway. The ANC was put on the backfoot, and an unequivocal message is already sent that the majority of the opposition have no trust and confidence in the president. In a political system built on some degree of compromise (and consensus), this means that the opposition may withhold its consent to certain proposals that the majority party posits as solutions to some of South Africa’s intractable social problems.

    Not only will this force the ANC to use its majority much more rudely and crudely – polarisation in society may increase and ordinary citizens may continue to see the opposition as an obstructionist force impeding social progress and transformation, rather than the gesture of no confidence that it might have been. …

    http://www.thenewage.co.za/71540-1007-53-DA_has_no_deep_penetration_into_SAs_grassroots

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ blue ozone

    Islam is a religion of peace. Just like Christianity.

    Thanks.

  • Alibama

    Zoo Keeper}To keep it Simple: The AD ruled on a matter 70 years ago..
    } 5 years ago a ruling is made by the ConCourt on an identic matter.
    } The ConCourt ruling supercedes and replaces the AD precedent.

    OK, here’s a concrete easier to understand version:-
    Repeatedly PdV gives an opinion of how a matter should/would be decided,
    and in his argument are BOR principles and previous CC findings & reasons.
    Now if a PdV-argument was given in a Hi-Crt, would the judge say/imply
    “take that to the CC, I work with the old precedents, until eg. the CC orders
    that a specific statute be fixed, it stands”. That’s understandable.
    But what about non-statutory ‘traditions’ / precedents?.
    Eg. there’s a ‘traditional-principle’ that a default judgment rescission
    application must provide sufficient grounds ‘to allow the Court to decide’.
    I don’t say that this is unconstitutional, only that it’s an example of a
    principle which isn’t codified. So whereas statutes must be FIXED, but can
    uncodified principles be over-ridden on CC princples/argument in lower Courts.

    }}There is a great description process of this by Lord Hoffmann in the House of
    Can you give some google-key-word to point to *THIS* ?

  • Alibama

    Michael Osborne}} See Madoff, ENRON, WMD’s, the 2000 election in Florida,.
    } the BBC, lavish country houses for Westminster MP’s, etc.
    Are you talking about corruption or sensationalaism?
    If you’re talking about sensationalism, why not mention Elvis Presley too?
    If corruption: skip WMDs & the 2000 US elections.
    The skilled deceiver Arabs fooled me too, and the election was a narrow choice,
    did you expect them to have a Congo-civil-war instead of a court decision?
    Perhaps you know more about Iran’s nuclear program too; let’s hear it.

  • Brett Nortje

    Why is Mwangi not answering his own question?

  • Brett Nortje

    http://news.howzit.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=252184559

    By Sapa, Updated: 2012/11/26
    DA Says SAPS Mismanaged
    The SA Police Service is mismanaged by a “top-heavy, frequently inexperienced hierarchy” created by disgraced former police commissioner Bheki Cele, the DA said on Sunday.

    “The ANC has made no change to its disastrous system of parachuting unqualified non-SAPS members into the position of national police commissioner, even after one was jailed and the other dismissed in disgrace,” DA MP Dianne Kohler-Barnard said at the party’s federal congress in Boksburg.

    “This has led to a collapse of the public trust in the SAPS as a whole…”

    She said shortages of police equipment and vehicles were the outcome of multi-million rand “parties” held time and again “under the current minister”.

    Kohler-Barnard said the lack of policy creation by Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa was the root of the operational problems.

    This coupled with the “re-militarisation” of police and the lack of public order policing led to the death of 34 miners in Marikana in August, she said.

    The DA resolved to continue pushing for the removal of Mthethwa, “whose reign has been so utterly ineffective”.

    The party resolved to continue fighting for the appointment of a career police officer as national police commissioner.

    All DA members were urged to report police corruption and ineptitude when it is brought to their attention.

    With regards to crime statistics, the party resolved to ask that farm murder statistics be reintroduced in the SAPS annual report.

    Kohler-Barnard said South Africans working on farms were being murdered at an unprecedented rate.

    “Despite becoming increasingly brutal, and with no real motive, murders on farms are not treated as priority crimes,” she said.

    “Murders of ANC politicians are treated as priority murders.”

    The DA further resolved to ask national police commissioner Riah Phiyega to make true her statements that specialised rural protection units be introduced.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Alibama

    A High Court can make a finding of a constitutional nature. In fact, the CC prefers it to go the whole hog, from High Court, Supreme Court of Appeal and only then the CC.

    So if you can raise an argument on constitutional principles the High Court has no option but to consider it. We are quite lucky in that old law is able to be challenged. If you can convincingly demonstrate that the old conclusion of the AD is incompatible with constitutional principles and should be set aside, you can make law.

    It just depends on how well you argue!

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!
  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    Whether war is extermination or not depends on your purpose.

    Take Istanbul for example (previously Byzantine and Constantinople). Its the hub of Euro-Asia trade routes. You’d want to conquer it but keep its businesses and citizens going. So you make war on the rulers and pursue them, not the entire city. Those that come to your side will be spared, those that don’t will be killed. Simple choice and backed up by an overwhelming display of aggression and power. So that everyone knows that you have the ability to execute your threat, and more importantly, the will to do so if required.

    Human history is replete with tales of extreme brutality for this very reason – like Rome.

    Fear and powerlessness keeps the population in check and allows the tyranny to reign. Those in power want to keep power at all costs. Which is why laws like the US’s Second Amendment that actually recognize this simple fact of human existence are so unique – and incredibly rare.

    If your enemy is another tribe, and who threatens your existence, then in those circumstances the purpose of the war would be to exterminate that tribe. Exactly what the Biblical Joshua did at Jericho.

  • Brett Nortje

    ZooKeeper, what is the buzz about the administration of the Courts?

    Is it just malicious gossip that Orders of Court bear little resemblance to the original once they have been through the typists’ hands?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Zuma is the worst leader the ANC has ever had. Anyone who says the Marikana massacre was a “mishap” does not deserve to occupy the highest office in the land. Anyone who tries to rewrite and erase history so spectacularly is lost. So are we.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2012/11/05/leave-the-chief-alone

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Hayibo!

    Meanwhile deputy health minister Gwen Ramokgopa has admitted that the private clinic being built for Zuma at Nkandla would not be accessible for the local community.

    In addition to the clinic, Zuma would also have access to a 24-hour fire and emergency service.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/11/26/nkandla-improvements-to-stay-cwele

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Meanwhile back at the ranch, er, COMPOUND …

    President Jacob Zuma’s family killed 12 cows in a ritual believed to be aimed at extending his tenure ahead of the ANC’s national elective conference in Mangaung, according to a report on Monday.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/12-cows-slaughtered-in-Zuma-ritual-20121126

    hehehehe …

    Zuma joined Zulu warriors in traditional dances as thousands of his relatives prayed for him to retain his position of ANC president.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Brett

    “Mistyping” of orders can have one of two origins:

    1) The typist is not paying attention

    2) Corruption

    It has happened in the South Gauteng High Court and folks got arrested for fraud. There was also a case of a clerk selling decisions.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    Brett and OB

    What is your view on the AA/EE as practised by DA??

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele
  • Beetle

    Why 12 cows?? Surely good animal husbandry would dictate slaughtering oxen or inferior bullocks and keeping the cows in calf?
    Is it a cultural thing?

  • Maggs Naidu – (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) – Zuma MUST go!

    Beetle
    November 26, 2012 at 18:01 pm

    Beetle,

    “Why 12 cows??”

    That was last week’s breakfast.

    Dinner @ the #NkandlaCompound – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ScZ40OfJKw

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey, big brother, as soon as you arrive
    You better get in touch with the people, big brother
    Better get them on your side, big brother
    And keep them satisfied

    Welcome to the beat of the city street
    Walk on now and don’t be shy
    Take a closer look at the people you meet
    And notice the fear in their eye, yeah
    Watchin’ the time passin’ by

    Hey, big brother, as soon as you arrive
    You better get in touch with the people, big brother
    Better keep them on your side, big brother
    Keep them satisfied

    Focus your eye on the filthy sky
    Just as far as you can see
    Everybody’s gettin’ kinda tired of waiting
    ‘Cause nobody wants to cry, yeah
    And nobody wants to die

    Hey, big brother, as soon as you arrive
    You better get in touch with the people, big brother
    And get them on your side, big brother
    And keep them satisfied

    Now that you’ve got the picture
    What you going to do?
    Now that you’ve got the picture
    What you going to do?

    Hey, big brother I know you’re out there somewhere
    If we don’t get our thing together
    Big brother will be watching us
    He ain’t gonna get me
    Are you gonna let him get you?
    He’ll never get me, he’ll never get me,
    no Big brother’s coming
    No, he’ll never get me, no, no, no, no

    Hey big brother
    Hey big brother, yeah yeah yeah
    Hey big brother
    Hey big brother
    Hey big brother, yeah

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/2009/09/15/oh-brother

  • Anonymouse

    Now the KPMG report is in the open – court case or no court case … http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Nkandla-born-in-arms-deal-sin-20121207

  • Anonymouse

    By the way – the full KPMG report is here – http://cdn.mg.co.za/content/documents/2012/12/06/KPMG_report.pdf

    (Note that the first page needs to be scrolled down because it appears blank when opened.)

    I see in the papers this morning, the ANC bemoans the ‘leakage’ of this report now because it is only an attempt to put its leader in a bad light before Mangaung. The Minister in the Presidency even says that it appears to be ‘old news’ that has been known for quite some time, so it isn’t really concerned. Someone else says that such reports should not be ‘leaked’ to the media, but if people think they have something against Pres Zuma, the infor has to be handed to the police, not the media.

    Thing is, this report was in the hands of the police and the NPA, but, because of the security tapes, which have not yet been divulged, Mpshe decided to drop prosecution. Nevertheless, the KPMG report, to my mind, provides damning evidence that Jacob Zuma was indeed involved n a corrupt relationship with Shaik and others – and, even the existence of the so-called security tapes should not have been a bar to prosecution in the public interest.

    Anyway – something can only be ‘leaked’ if it has been regarded as ‘secret’ by those holdingg the info – and the new law would have led to prosecution of the Mail&Guardian had it been passed by Parliament before the ‘leakage’ of the report was done. Fortunately for the M&G, the law is not yet in operation – but public interest was served by the ‘leakage’ – foh sho! Without it, we would not have known what the auditors found in the investigation against Zuma, except in as far as it concerned Shaik.

  • Anonymouse
  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    It strikes me as opportunistic in the extreme that this so-called KPMG “report” be published at this time. I see it as a grave infringement of Mr Zuma’s PRIVACY and DIGNITY should be invaded to this extent. Furthermore, I demand that KPMG be fully TRANSFORMED, so as to prevent future breaches of this kind.

    Thanks.

  • Anonymouse

    Mikhail

    I cannot but agree.

    Regards