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	<title>Comments on: No compassion for people who do not drive a Porsche?</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>Anon1 and Khosi, I have changed my pseudonymn so as to avoid confusion. Anon1, I must say, what you are saying makes a lot of sense and gives food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon1 and Khosi, I have changed my pseudonymn so as to avoid confusion. Anon1, I must say, what you are saying makes a lot of sense and gives food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon1</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1244</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1244</guid>
		<description>Pierre, you are able to point out to Khethla that you were vociferous in your condemnation of what happened at Reitz hostel.  That is true.  But I am afraid you and other “white” commentators have helped foster the blinkered foolishness manifested in Khethla post.   You have done that by indulging the massively disproportionate reaction to the pranks of those stupid  children at Reitz.   

You should realise that the black comprador elite will always find it expedient to inflate to the level of unspeakable atrocity trivialities like Reitz – which in any case reflects petty classism and idiot boorishness on the part of those little thugs as much as racism.

The perhaps unconscious strategy of the black bourgeoisie is to divert attention from the structural racism in which they, as much as Porsche-driving members of the judiciary, are complicit.   By structural racism, I mean the decimation of an entire generation by HIV/AID; the grinding poverty that has significantly increased since 1994; that thousands of impoverished black defendants are railroaded to jail every year for lack of proper legal aid.  The list goes on.  

In none of these tragedies are whites the victims. Liberal-minded whites have their own cynical reasons for  blowing out of all proportion what happened in Bloem.  They expiate their own guilt.  By sycophantically cringing before  and parroting the cynical fury of the young black elite, they establish their own credentials as righteous whites.   And they conveniently shift responsibility for a long history of oppression, perpetrated  by their own massive privilege, despite the death of apartheid, onto the shoulders of a few Afrikaans kids in Bloemfontein.
 
Until black students start boycotting classes, tipping rubbish bins, and burning buildings  to protest these catastrophic legacies of apartheid, their professed fury at what happened at Reitz does not deserve to be taken seriously, not even for a second.

Of course, people like Khethla will say that dismissing Reitz as “trivial” is itself a manifestation of racism.   Do not be intimidated by such bluster.   For yes, given the immense tragedy of South Africa, what happened at Reitz hostel  IS indeed trivial.   And they are themselves (self-hating), racists for averting their eyes from the real crisis.  Let them deny that the  unnecessary death of a single child from HIV-AIDS is an atrocity worse than ten thousand Reitz’s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pierre, you are able to point out to Khethla that you were vociferous in your condemnation of what happened at Reitz hostel.  That is true.  But I am afraid you and other “white” commentators have helped foster the blinkered foolishness manifested in Khethla post.   You have done that by indulging the massively disproportionate reaction to the pranks of those stupid  children at Reitz.   </p>
<p>You should realise that the black comprador elite will always find it expedient to inflate to the level of unspeakable atrocity trivialities like Reitz – which in any case reflects petty classism and idiot boorishness on the part of those little thugs as much as racism.</p>
<p>The perhaps unconscious strategy of the black bourgeoisie is to divert attention from the structural racism in which they, as much as Porsche-driving members of the judiciary, are complicit.   By structural racism, I mean the decimation of an entire generation by HIV/AID; the grinding poverty that has significantly increased since 1994; that thousands of impoverished black defendants are railroaded to jail every year for lack of proper legal aid.  The list goes on.  </p>
<p>In none of these tragedies are whites the victims. Liberal-minded whites have their own cynical reasons for  blowing out of all proportion what happened in Bloem.  They expiate their own guilt.  By sycophantically cringing before  and parroting the cynical fury of the young black elite, they establish their own credentials as righteous whites.   And they conveniently shift responsibility for a long history of oppression, perpetrated  by their own massive privilege, despite the death of apartheid, onto the shoulders of a few Afrikaans kids in Bloemfontein.</p>
<p>Until black students start boycotting classes, tipping rubbish bins, and burning buildings  to protest these catastrophic legacies of apartheid, their professed fury at what happened at Reitz does not deserve to be taken seriously, not even for a second.</p>
<p>Of course, people like Khethla will say that dismissing Reitz as “trivial” is itself a manifestation of racism.   Do not be intimidated by such bluster.   For yes, given the immense tragedy of South Africa, what happened at Reitz hostel  IS indeed trivial.   And they are themselves (self-hating), racists for averting their eyes from the real crisis.  Let them deny that the  unnecessary death of a single child from HIV-AIDS is an atrocity worse than ten thousand Reitz’s.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre De Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1238</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1238</guid>
		<description>Khetlha, you are obviously not a regular reader of this Blog, otherwise you would know that I have often spoken out against racism - including that at the Free State University. You have obviously also not read the post carefully or otherwise you would not have said that I do not address the merits of the case. I argued that the Judge President failed to apply the letter and the spirit of the Constitution as annunciated by the judges of the Constitutional Court and even quoted from the judgment to prove my point. You seem to say I am not allowed to criticise Judge Hlophe because he is black and any criticism of a black judge is by its very nature racist regardless of the context and content of that criticism. Down that path lies racial essentialism and eventually authoritarianism, so I will not follow you down that route. Please feel free to read the rest of the Blog and then to make cogent, logical arguments for why you believe I am a racist. In the absence of an argument and in the face of mere invective, I am unable to engage with you on any meaningful level. You might have some issues that goes beyond the appalling racism in our society, I guess, and if it makes you feel better to rant and rave here, I am happy to provide the platform. Have a nice day. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Khetlha, you are obviously not a regular reader of this Blog, otherwise you would know that I have often spoken out against racism &#8211; including that at the Free State University. You have obviously also not read the post carefully or otherwise you would not have said that I do not address the merits of the case. I argued that the Judge President failed to apply the letter and the spirit of the Constitution as annunciated by the judges of the Constitutional Court and even quoted from the judgment to prove my point. You seem to say I am not allowed to criticise Judge Hlophe because he is black and any criticism of a black judge is by its very nature racist regardless of the context and content of that criticism. Down that path lies racial essentialism and eventually authoritarianism, so I will not follow you down that route. Please feel free to read the rest of the Blog and then to make cogent, logical arguments for why you believe I am a racist. In the absence of an argument and in the face of mere invective, I am unable to engage with you on any meaningful level. You might have some issues that goes beyond the appalling racism in our society, I guess, and if it makes you feel better to rant and rave here, I am happy to provide the platform. Have a nice day. <img src='http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: khetlha</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1235</link>
		<dc:creator>khetlha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1235</guid>
		<description>I really hate racist you proclaim to be caring about Black people whilst they&#039;re propagating their racist agenda. The attack on Judge Hlope is not about the destitutes is about racists who are trying to get even with the Judge. These racists including De vos they&#039;ll never talk about racists in OFS, racist who shot Black people, racists who encroach upon rights of Black people everyday.

We must be careful of these racists questioning transformation for their racist ends.  This De vos person instead of talking about the merits of the case challenges Judge Hlophe&#039;s credentials. There are many racist Judges but this De vos person will not talk about them for obvious reasons. 

This is perplexing. 

Beware my friend. Beware of these racists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really hate racist you proclaim to be caring about Black people whilst they&#8217;re propagating their racist agenda. The attack on Judge Hlope is not about the destitutes is about racists who are trying to get even with the Judge. These racists including De vos they&#8217;ll never talk about racists in OFS, racist who shot Black people, racists who encroach upon rights of Black people everyday.</p>
<p>We must be careful of these racists questioning transformation for their racist ends.  This De vos person instead of talking about the merits of the case challenges Judge Hlophe&#8217;s credentials. There are many racist Judges but this De vos person will not talk about them for obvious reasons. </p>
<p>This is perplexing. </p>
<p>Beware my friend. Beware of these racists.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1231</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1231</guid>
		<description>The idea that anyone can be impartial as a judge is, in reality, a lie brought about by proponents of a westernised system of governance.  Impartiality, in reality, is impossible.  All you decisions as a judge is based on you own personal views, preoccupations, and preferences.  You cannot remove that from what you are as government official.  It should be obvious that this is impossible.

Therefore, the type of person a judge is becomes absolutely essential.  The fact the Hlope has a wine farm and an expensive porche is important because it shows where he COMES from.  It shows where his allegiances lie as a judge.  It shows that he cannot understand what it is actually like to live in Joe Slovo as compared to Delft.  Therefore, he has no right to make pronouncements that the conditions in Delft are better than Joe Slovo because he is not in a socioeconomic position to understand this.

Does anyone think that if we were lucky enough to have a judge who actually lives in one of Cape Town&#039;s hundreds of shack settlements, the judgement would have gone in favor of the government?  Law is partial.  And recognising this is the first important step in understanding why law almost always goes in favor of the wealthy.

Its time to let the poor speak for themselves.  Its time to allow the poor to be able to decide on their own future.  They are not stupid.  They know what is good for them and they know that if they move to Delft, they will pay 3 times as much for transport and that they will loose their jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that anyone can be impartial as a judge is, in reality, a lie brought about by proponents of a westernised system of governance.  Impartiality, in reality, is impossible.  All you decisions as a judge is based on you own personal views, preoccupations, and preferences.  You cannot remove that from what you are as government official.  It should be obvious that this is impossible.</p>
<p>Therefore, the type of person a judge is becomes absolutely essential.  The fact the Hlope has a wine farm and an expensive porche is important because it shows where he COMES from.  It shows where his allegiances lie as a judge.  It shows that he cannot understand what it is actually like to live in Joe Slovo as compared to Delft.  Therefore, he has no right to make pronouncements that the conditions in Delft are better than Joe Slovo because he is not in a socioeconomic position to understand this.</p>
<p>Does anyone think that if we were lucky enough to have a judge who actually lives in one of Cape Town&#8217;s hundreds of shack settlements, the judgement would have gone in favor of the government?  Law is partial.  And recognising this is the first important step in understanding why law almost always goes in favor of the wealthy.</p>
<p>Its time to let the poor speak for themselves.  Its time to allow the poor to be able to decide on their own future.  They are not stupid.  They know what is good for them and they know that if they move to Delft, they will pay 3 times as much for transport and that they will loose their jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Osborne</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1228</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Osborne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1228</guid>
		<description>I must agree with Pierre.   The well-established convention that one does not criticise a judge personally is salutary.   But one of the bases of that convention is the liberal fiction that a judge’s biography has nothing to do with how she decided cases.   Modern legal realism subverts that fiction -- but in so doing it also undermines one of the rationales for separating the jurist’s personality from her jurisprudence.

One  implicit assumption implicit in the racial “transformation” of the judiciary is  that a judge who belongs to a group that suffered exclusion and repression is more likely to adjudicate in a manner sensitive to that group’s plight.  If Pierre wishes to argue that this assumption has been proven wrong in the case of a particular judge, how can he avoid “personalizing” his criticism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must agree with Pierre.   The well-established convention that one does not criticise a judge personally is salutary.   But one of the bases of that convention is the liberal fiction that a judge’s biography has nothing to do with how she decided cases.   Modern legal realism subverts that fiction &#8212; but in so doing it also undermines one of the rationales for separating the jurist’s personality from her jurisprudence.</p>
<p>One  implicit assumption implicit in the racial “transformation” of the judiciary is  that a judge who belongs to a group that suffered exclusion and repression is more likely to adjudicate in a manner sensitive to that group’s plight.  If Pierre wishes to argue that this assumption has been proven wrong in the case of a particular judge, how can he avoid “personalizing” his criticism?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1223</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1223</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t agree with you more, Thomas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t agree with you more, Thomas</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Blaser</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1220</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Blaser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1220</guid>
		<description>I am concerned that Punkie seems to think that  to criticise certain policies is to deny the validity of their objectives. While transformation and affirmative action policies may have good reason to exist, the practice of their implementation, their intended and unintended consequeces warrant discussion and evaluation. With reference to Judge Hlophe, the question arises whom does he represent and based on what grounds?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am concerned that Punkie seems to think that  to criticise certain policies is to deny the validity of their objectives. While transformation and affirmative action policies may have good reason to exist, the practice of their implementation, their intended and unintended consequeces warrant discussion and evaluation. With reference to Judge Hlophe, the question arises whom does he represent and based on what grounds?</p>
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		<title>By: Delia</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1214</link>
		<dc:creator>Delia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1214</guid>
		<description>How strange is it that from the relevant comfort of your homes or offices you are all either criticising or defending a judge for a judgment delivered by him when it is that same relavant comfort that the judge is hoping  to achive for the people he (so cruelly according to most of you) evicted. While most of you go on about compassion and humanity and the constitution only Clara touches on reality and not a single one of you offer any alternative, less inhumane solution. What is it that you suggest the Judge and for that matter the government do with these people? Where are the government suppose to build houses for the homeless if the Jo Slovo people are to be left alone? If you have any suggestions then please put it forward. The reality is that these squatter camps are an eye sore and I applaud governement for wanting to do something about it, all be it that they take their time with it. No one goes by there saying &quot;whow look at the wonderful living conditions, what progress has been made since 1994&quot;. None of you should be allowed to critice if you can not offer or suggest a solution to a very real problem. If there is any other way the government  can improve the lives of these people then say so but to go on about their rights and dignity and doing nothing about their living conditions is of no benifit to anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How strange is it that from the relevant comfort of your homes or offices you are all either criticising or defending a judge for a judgment delivered by him when it is that same relavant comfort that the judge is hoping  to achive for the people he (so cruelly according to most of you) evicted. While most of you go on about compassion and humanity and the constitution only Clara touches on reality and not a single one of you offer any alternative, less inhumane solution. What is it that you suggest the Judge and for that matter the government do with these people? Where are the government suppose to build houses for the homeless if the Jo Slovo people are to be left alone? If you have any suggestions then please put it forward. The reality is that these squatter camps are an eye sore and I applaud governement for wanting to do something about it, all be it that they take their time with it. No one goes by there saying &#8220;whow look at the wonderful living conditions, what progress has been made since 1994&#8243;. None of you should be allowed to critice if you can not offer or suggest a solution to a very real problem. If there is any other way the government  can improve the lives of these people then say so but to go on about their rights and dignity and doing nothing about their living conditions is of no benifit to anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Dzakiwe</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/no-compassion-for-people-who-do-not-drive-a-porsche/#comment-1208</link>
		<dc:creator>Dzakiwe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 14:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=489#comment-1208</guid>
		<description>Please be all sobre? that is my greetings,

Very clear :

Hlophe got bail out in the recent  Cape Bar / Cape Bench Saga by key political/ legal figures and it was pay back time - to make the government happy. he who pays you, one way or another, directs you. 

The bigger lesson to be learnt is from senior black counsel, when he acted prominetly against government, there were few instructions forth coming from government. That was the punishment. We are human beings, we do love people to make us happy especially when we make them happy.

I respect Hlophe so I do to Pro De Voss but the people of like are protected by law and the is or must be in favour of them. 

But the law is not a machine, its control and manipulated by individuals. 

Langa people  - you solution, vote with your feet.

mzekezeke</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please be all sobre? that is my greetings,</p>
<p>Very clear :</p>
<p>Hlophe got bail out in the recent  Cape Bar / Cape Bench Saga by key political/ legal figures and it was pay back time &#8211; to make the government happy. he who pays you, one way or another, directs you. </p>
<p>The bigger lesson to be learnt is from senior black counsel, when he acted prominetly against government, there were few instructions forth coming from government. That was the punishment. We are human beings, we do love people to make us happy especially when we make them happy.</p>
<p>I respect Hlophe so I do to Pro De Voss but the people of like are protected by law and the is or must be in favour of them. </p>
<p>But the law is not a machine, its control and manipulated by individuals. </p>
<p>Langa people  &#8211; you solution, vote with your feet.</p>
<p>mzekezeke</p>
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