The most recent local government by-election results (from elections held on 21 July) should at the very least concern political strategists of the governing ANC. A few interesting trends have been confirmed by these results.
First, the ANC’s support amongst colored voters in the Western Cape – even in rural areas – has collapsed dramatically. The ANC has become an African party with very little support amongst members of other race groups. So much for the ANC’s much advertised non-racialism. Whether this has something to do with the embarrassing tantrums and childish rants of a leader like Julius Malema is not clear. What is clear is that the ANC in the Western Cape has completely alienated non-African black voters.
Second, the DA has made modest (but very limited) gains amongst African voters. These gains are more pronounced in small rural towns than in the big cities but remains limited. The DA still has a lot of work to do to convince African voters that it could possibly represent their interests. Even where traditional ANC voters want to cast protest votes they are more likely to cast such votes for independent candidates (or even for Cope) than for the DA candidate.
Speaking of Cope, interestingly, Cope has done surprisingly well in some of the by-elections. This is particularly the case in Cape Town where it gained between 15 and 25% of the vote in constituencies dominated by African voters. This suggests that the voter support for Cope might not have imploded completely despite the dreadful infighting in that party. Maybe something could still be rescued for this sorry bunch of infighters.
Third, some credible independent candidates in certain areas have stolen a large percentage of votes from the ANC while the voter turnout in ANC dominated constituencies where no credible independent candidates were standing, was very low – as low as 25% in some cases. This suggests that the electoral dominance of the ANC – while still very pronounced – is not as solid as it used to be. If credible candidates or parties stood for election, many African voters seem now for the first time prepared to abandon the ANC. This is in line with electoral trends in many other post independent countries, where the party of liberation starts losing its absolute dominance after about 20 years of freedom.
If these patterns are to be repeated in the local government election next year (by no means a forgone conclusion) and if the ANC fails galvanize its traditional supporters to go to the polls, the party will suffer very heavy losses. This will be to the benefit of the DA who might receive almost the same number of votes but a much higher percentage of the votes because of lower turn out.
Lastly, the ANC is continuing to show growth in KwaZulu-Natal at the expense of the hapless IFP. At this rate the IFP would be dead before Mangosuthu Buthelezi is finally disposed of as leader. The IFP is basically dead. The fights about who should succeed Buthelezi as leader is really just a fight about who should oversee the funeral of the IFP.
Of course, these results show clearly why the ANC wants to co-ordinate local government and national elections. In national elections its freedom credentials might still hold sway while elections fought on the failure of local governments (and not on national issues) would make life rather difficult for the ANC – especially where credible alternative candidates come forward.
interesting post world cup letter. worth a look at
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/YourStory/Image-first-South-Africans-second-20100722
How exciting! African voters should not be afraid to vote a different party into power. Like in Germany, if the ruling party doesn’t live up to it’s election promises, they can always be voted out at the next election. The ruling party knows this and thus should act accordingly in order to appease the people. THAT is democracy! THAT is what I want for South Africa!
The crux will come when the ANC feels really threatened by the vote. Another good link JCS is a post comment by Vaughn at http://politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=188774&sn=Detail
Africans voting for the DA is like Turkeys voting for thanksgiving, as they say in the U.S.
Don’t these people realise that the DA would bring back capitalism, allow rampant corruption, and downgrade hospitals and clinics that serve poor blacks?
Good one Fass: nice to catch your intent again. Cheers.
I’m not altogether sure about how the ANC’s many exceedingly level-headed detractors should feel about the ruling party losing political ground. And my lack of certainty in this regard comes down, in part, to this: let’s extend this suppressed optimism about the ANC losing ground to the end many of us have thought of quite fondly. And that end is the ANC losing in a general election. The question is: what then? I mean, on the assumption that my tendency to conspiracy theory can be forgiven, do any of us really think that the ANC would graciously accept another party running this country? Or, do we think that in some key respects, the similarity between the ethical declines experienced by the ANC and struggle-leading party’s in other country’s is close enough for us to expect the ANC to empoy abusive means to hold on to power? I’m going to go with the latter view. That is, my guess (and it is really just a guess predicated, I hope, on proofs which some recreational historians might credit) that the ANC brand will smell as foul as Zanu PF before we’ll have a shot at ousting that dirty lot.
Leigh, perhaps you do not recall that it was the ANC that brought democracy to South Africa. ANC understands well that one of the risks of democracy is that you may lose power, if the people transfer their loyalty to other parties. So you need not fear that the ANC will not accept the roll of the loyal opposition, if that should ever come to pass.
That being said, I don’t see why the ANC should accept defeat if opposition parties win by stealing votes through dishonest manipulations. To take a topical example: the trust our people have always reposed in the ANC is being undermined by the liberal media, as stories of so-called corruption are splashed all over white-run papers. And the DA is spreading disinformation about General Nyanda. No DA “victory” that arises from such tactics would deserve recognition. This would be a counter-revoutionary coup, under the guise of democracy.
.
My thoughts exactly, Leigh!
We all know what a rampant democrat Juju is…
Prof: Look at the numbers. How many Africans will leave or not attend work because they want to vote. If by-elections were held during a holiday I tell you the results would be different. I know you wont believe this until we have local elections and people are given time off to vote.
I think the coloured voter has a right to vote for the DA, because the DA is more likely to treat them as second class citizens and treat blacks as third class citizens. I will give it to the DA this strategy is working. For those who don’t believe that there is such a strategy: why is it that the toilet debacle happened in a black township. The problem with the ANC in the Western Cape is that it treats the poor the same. This is an irritation for the coloureds as they feel they are better than the blacks and should receive priority status.
Thomas has just confirmed one of my pet theories about many of the ANC’s supporters:
If voting is part of the exercise of ones’ civic duty the ANC would be spanked.
That is why the ANC always declares a feast day to coincide with elections, why SAPS reservists riot for pay, why the SNAFUDF would not exist if it depended on conscripts paid R150 a month, why school governing bodies in Orlando would never convene if there was no chicken from Pick & Pay on the table, why SAFA….ahhh, fukkit!
I hope the ANC will not be coerced into pleasing one group over the other but rather focus on its support base. The Republic of Western Cape will continue to be under the DA for a while until the population processes swing it in its favour. ANC can assist this change by just becoming a better ruling party and that is achievable.
Thomas
What about the City Press expose on the ANC toilet debacle?
At the DA toilets were part of an ongoing and credible upgrade. Zille’s position has not been contradicted by anybody so can take the her last statement as fact. In which case there is no toilet saga there really.
According to City Press however, the ANC have left poor blacks with unenclosed toilets since 2001. That’s 9 years.
No wonder there are more township riots agains the ANC than against the Nats pre-1994.
Prof
The ANC was desperate for Zuma to be president because he could deliver the Kwa-Zulu Natal vote and destroy the IFP.
Without that massive voting bloc the ANC would not have gotten near 65%. The ANC needs a Zulu at the helm to keep our most populous province voting its way.
@ Gwebe
“The Republic of Western Cape will continue to be under the DA for a while until the population processes swing it in its favour. ”
Gwebe is right.
Another way the ANC can help swing the electoral balance in the Western Case along is by encouraging the continued inflow of people from the Eastern Cape. Not only will this bolster the ANC’s provincial power base. It also creates more opportunities for the DA government to deprive people of their dignity by building disgusting latrines!
Many thanks.
@ dr fassbinder
your earlier comment (Africans voting for the DA is like Turkeys voting for thanksgiving, … Don’t these people realise that the DA would bring back capitalism, allow rampant corruption, and downgrade hospitals and clinics that serve poor blacks?) is one of your better attempts at sarcasm, I trust?
@ Dworky
Yes Migration is one of the three population processes.
Not long ago the Minority Front had an opportunistic responsibility of swinging the Premeirship in KZN and that is no more. Lately it has been reduced to a husband and wife party.
Sanity will prevail.
I find this to be quite an interesting read
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=iol1279615413732C251
@ Mzo
Thanks, I would love to read these articles.
I have no doubt that if Chikane had opted to stay out of politics/Presidency, today he would be a better man. His story is not so different from Danadala’s where a man of cloth gets caught up in what he/she cannot control. To serve a political principal comes with a risk/benefit of having your reputation either sinking or rising with the principal’s.
I look forward to hearing his story. After all the denials and arrogance in that office I hope he is still capable of changing my mind.
Whilst we are busy meddling with toilets.
http://www.businessday.co.za/Articles/Content.aspx?id=115755
Gwebecimele: great news on the site you posted.
Now, if we can only get SA on line at a reasonable price. I’ve been trying to raise sponsorship for computer stations and internet access for a local and excellent library in a disadvantaged community. Donors are not bawking at the supply of computers, but at the cost of monthly telecommunication costs.
In Canada for example, 4mgbte is exactly that, 4 million bytes delivery/sec, as in instant; before you can finish typing in the address, you can’t move your hand to the mouse before the site is up, any site, even full movies. And you get it for R125 a month, unlimited broadband, no caps unless you are using 30 gbte/month, movie delivery exempted and paid for separately (apart from TV broadcast and DVD delivery is less than renting a DVD; the former gbyte+ indicates business activity and understandably demands additional costs.
sirjay jonson says:
July 23, 2010 at 18:10 pm
Great observation of what’s happening in the 1st World. Keep in mind we are in a 3rd world and in AFRICA for that.
I feel completely and utterly alienated from the government of the day, the ANC, and my black South African brothers. Affirmative action, for instance, is starting to cross the line into blatant racism. Like many other white people I am pulling back into a second layer, away from public life and participation, away from participatory business life, because I view the government as something alien and removed. There is a chasm to cross before I will vote for the ANC.
Regarding the freedom of the press; maybe this is the way to go
http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_assange_why_the_world_needs_wikileaks.html
@Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
When is democracy not democracy? Answer: When you believe in democracy, BUT … Sound familiar? Clue – “I am not a racist, BUT …”
@ Mzo
It seems as if the Cikane files are being challenged.
I am not suprised by these developments, we were misled several times in the past.
“non-African black voters”
Wow, prof, please think a moment about this amazing choice of words.
We know that some Coloured people identify with the struggles of black (meaning non-white) peoples word-wide, and so it is understandable that they may want to be called black rather than coloured. (Black is a politics, etc)
And we know that nationalists in the ruling elite has begun to adopt the name African for black people – this is a trick of nationalism, because if you’re not African, then you don’t really belong in South Africa in the same way as an African. Under nationalism there is always a preferred, chosen people, who are identified in a particular way.
While it may be in your nature to accept this way of excluding white people from having an African identity, I don’t think it is right or appropriate for you to call Coloured people non-African.
Gwebecimele says:
July 25, 2010 at 16:06 pm
The Chikane files.
The part around the halos and wings adorned by that administration is missing.
Maybe that will be in the sequel!
Leigh says:
July 22, 2010 at 21:43 pm
Eish!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
July 23, 2010 at 12:30 pm
“Another way the ANC can help swing the electoral balance in the Western Case along is by encouraging the continued inflow of people from the Eastern Cape”.
How would it encourage the continued inflow of people from the Eastern Cape?
By asking people to uproot and migrate in large numbers to WC just to help the ANC to win there and people would just do that?
Whatever you were smoking when you thought that up is some rough stuff!
Errr, Maggs, is the Eastern Cape not depopulating in search of large numbers of white people?
The Chikane Files are so revealing; but would be more so if Frank Chikane could be brave enough to supply more flesh for the skeleton in the form of names of people.
The ANC’s statement that these files are not gospel truth is to be expected from a party that now denies everything and tries to block free flow of information. But if they fail to refute the allegations in those files with facts, Chikane’s account of events remains credible.
Hey Dworkus,
Your party of choice has proved that it is unable to attract “competent” African commercial aircraft pilots.
“DA shows its colours
Delegates at congress reject four African candidates for senior position
Jul 25, 2010 10:27 PM | By Michael Hamlyn, I-Net Bridge
At the end of their two-day conference, delegates at the Democratic Alliance’s federal congress gave the public a glimpse of what lies under their liberal clothing: they failed to elect a single African candidate to any of the three posts as deputy federal chairman of the party.”
Maggs, you have been living is some kind of self-created fantasy if you are surprised to learn that the DA is party of LIBERAL RACISTS.
(And hypocrites too, if you consider how they fulminate over General Nyanda’s lifestyle, even while “Madam” Zille lives in the lap of luxury, pays billions of rand to so-called “consultants,” and demolishes the churches and toilets of blacks!)
Thanks very much.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
July 26, 2010 at 8:13 am
LOL!
@ Dumisane
What is new in these files other than the fact that he had to attend a wedding? I agree with you, now that he has opted to speak , he must put flesh on the skeleton.
@ Maggs
The more things change the more they stay the same. We were going to be shocked by DA appointing an African as its leader, even the long retired Seremane accepted his fate long time ago.
Hey Dworky, this should be an interesting read.
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2010-07-16-is-xenophobia-a-prophecy-by-karl-marx
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article569182.ece/DA-shows-its-colours
Sorry, Prof, and all the other geniuses out there, pray please elaborate and clarify, ‘What is a coloured?’
Donovan, as far as I am concerned, you are yourself a genius, so it should not be necessary for you to even ask this question. But, for whatever it is worth, my humble definition of a “coloured,” for purposes of Western Cape politics, is a voter who staunchly resists the “divide and rule” siren calls of the racist, sexist liberals who rule the semi-autonomous republic of Zillestan!
Thanks very much.
@ alleman
Any non-whatever term is not cool.
A caller this morning on radio called this “Madam & Eve”
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/07/26/engagement-ring-for-the-id
Well ther u have it, Seremane retired(“ceremonial”) long time ago.
This coalition of two groups in WC has been bubbling for a while and it will be interesting to see for how long can we avoid dealing with it.
http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/article/2010-07-26-das-new-federal-head-wilmot-james-i-will-not-be-ceremonial
Gwebecimele says:
July 25, 2010 at 16:06 pm
@ Mzo
It seems as if the Cikane files are being challenged.
I am not suprised by these developments, we were misled several times in the past.
———————————————————————————————–
I did expect the files to be challenged. However, I note the rather measured challenge, as opposed to them being dismissed totally. In my view, even if half of what he says is true, it’s still scary stuff which just confirms how the lines between the State and Luthuli House have been blurred since Polokwane!!
Chikane give sthe impression that there is no legal or constitutional mechanism for the President to be dismissed by parliament unless there was serious misconduct and the like and therefore that it would not have been legally possible to get rid of Mbeki. This impression is dead wrong.Section 102 states that the National Assembly can adopt a vote of no confidence in the President and then has to resign. They can do this for any reason: because they do not like the President anymore, because he lied, because he did not want to jump when they told him to. If the majority party ahs lost confidence in the President they can therefore get rid of him. That is one of the reasons why Zuma is so laclkluster and so indecisive: if he upset too many peiople in the ANC they can just fire him via the voting fodder called ANC MPs in Parliament.
Pierre De Vos says:
July 26, 2010 at 12:31 pm
“Chikane gives the impression” …
that the doors to Cabinet then was the earthly equivalent of the Pearly Gates.
All that we saw, heard, read and/or otherwise had unleashed on us was an illusion – as they say in the movies “the truth is out there, somewhere”.
HIV causes AIDs and we know some people who died from AIDS related illnesses.
Elections that are not free and fair cannot be valid.
SA has high crime.
There was corruption associated with the arms deal.
Many civil servants are lazy and corrupt.
People get raped.
…………………………………………………………………..
@ Mzo
We are talking about a Rev here? We should have a reasonable expectation(not half truth) that his, is nothing but a gospel truth. In his files he clearly told us he never stopped being a clergy.
What did u expect from Union Buildings and Luthuli House when clearly there were 2 Bulls running each kraal?
@Gwebecimele
I have had enough enconters with the men of the cloth to know that they too are fallable, as the rest of us.
While many ANC supporters and DA detractors would like to continue to perpetuate the myth that the DA is a racist or white liberal party, the DA continues to make headway in traditionally Black areas.
Since the 2009 general elections, the DA has won 11 new wards in by-elections, 7 of which they have taken from the ANC. On Wednesday, the DA won its 9th ward in Mitchell’s Plein – in other words, it now controls all 9 wards in that area.
Of perhaps even more significance, the DA won a VD in Mpumulanga which had not one minority voter.
The party’s Federal leadership, contrary to what others are saying, is made up of 5 Africans, 3 of whom are white women and 2 of whom are coloured men. The voters at the Congress were predominantly non-white and opted to choose leaders on merit, rather than colour, despite understanding that the DA detractors would have a field day if Black people were not elected.
The entire youth leadership is Black and consists of educated, motivated and dedicated young people who have earned their positions through hard work.
For many people in the DA, the idea that your colour, background and name do not determine your future is what holds appeal. Many of our Black activists and leaders have joined the DA because they believe that the DA is a party that truly represents the ideals of the rainbow nation, as espoused by Nelson Mandela. These people believe in hard work, integrity and honesty and have a shared goal towards the upliftment of all South Africans.
I can speak on this with authority, as I was part of the Federal Congress in Cape Town unlike so many others who hold forth on the DA and its policies with little or no knowledge of what the party is all about.
Samantha says:
July 28, 2010 at 8:44 am
Hey Samantha,
“The African National Congress (ANC) remains the party of choice for voters …
The poll, conducted among 3 386 people in May, showed that if an election was held tomorrow, the ANC would get 66% of the vote …
Support for the official opposition, the DA, remained around the 12% to 13% mark, after winning 16,6% in the 2009 election.
DA supporters were still 51,4% white, with coloured South Africans making up almost one-third (31,5%) and black South Africans a tenth (9,9%), according to the survey.
Supporters of the ANC and Cope are overwhelmingly black….”
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-07-28-anc-still-the-party-of-choice-survey-shows
Maggs, does this study not support Zille’s boast that the DA is the most multiracial party?
Samantha, I am not interested in the policies of the DA. All I know is that, if they ever got into power,they would bring in a two-tier health system, under which whites got 1st world care, while most blacks had to use underfunded public hospitals!
Dworky
Where did you get that from?
Michael Osborne says:
July 28, 2010 at 15:04 pm
“…does this study not support Zille’s boast that the DA is the most multiracial party?”
In your view, are the demographics of the country important in aswering the question of whether a party is truly multi-racial or not?
National average support for DA is 83% W+C . I will make a guess and say in the Western Cape its about 95% W+C and further it might be 99% amongst whites in WC.
What if Afiricans would vote that way at 79% nationally they would control 8 provinces and govern until Jesus comes.
DA IS THE MASTER OF RACE BASED VOTING.
Samantha says:
July 28, 2010 at 8:44 am
For me, so long as the DA still talks as if we live in an equal society I will never support them. As a black man who grew up in the rural Transkei and did Physics without ever seeing a test tube; had to find part-time jobs throughout his life at Varsity just so that he can have some money to buy a toothpaste (and I can go on), I can never accept the notion that says I’m equal to Mr de Wet down the passage simply because we both went to the polls to vote. And this has nothing to do with victim mentality or any such thing, but has everything to do with hard cold facts.
It will take us at least 2 more generations before we can talk about the “equality” that Hellen Zille and her people are on about!!
With these figures its safe to assume that more than 95% of whites vote DA and they should proudly say so just like Samantha unlike the species who supported Nationalist Party and are unidentifiable today.
Gwebe
Couldn’t you say the same about the ANC?
@ Mzo,
Thank you for your honest and considered post.
I would just like to respond by saying that despite all thinking to the contrary, the DA policies are geared toward attaining the equality to which you refer. The biggest focus of the party is on quality education and quality healthcare. These are already being implemented in the Western Cape. An example of this is that in the last year, through good governance and financial management, the Western Cape has managed to save R 2.4billion in the Province. The majority of this saving has now been allocated to the healthcare budget.
In contrast, the Eastern Cape overspent on their healthcare budget last year, so deferred payments to this financial year, which has meant that the healthcare budget has already been severely undermined.
In the Western Cape, all principals have been put on performance management systems with set goals. In the Eastern Cape, 7 Education Department officials have been put on suspension with full pay pending the outcome of investigations into millions of rands that have been stolen. The matric pass rate has dropped from 68.3% in 2005 to 60.8% in 2009. Tomorrow, SADTU affiliated teachers are due to go on strike – AGAIN. Our education system is ranked 132 out of 134 countries and our highest ranked University is UCT at 252 in the world.
As Helen Zille stated this weekend, “A good education is the best affirmative action.”
My question is, thus: Would you rather attain equality by having everyone being dragged down to the lowest common denominator, or would you rather attain equality where the government is implementing policies designed to uplift our people through education, good service delivery and success through a system that recognises excellence instead of mediocrity?
@ Gwebecimele,
Your statement, as follows refers:
“DA IS THE MASTER OF RACE BASED VOTING.”
The ANC are building on a platform of nationalism, where the focus of everything they do is on Black Africans. In fact, so much so, that they use the word African only in the context of Black people.
I would content, therefore, that the ANC, IFP (Zulu party) and the FF+ are far more focused on race-based voting than the DA, who are the only party working to build their party on non-racialism.
Despite Mzo’s reference to demographics, the DA is the only party in South Africa that is home to all races and is also the only party in South Africa that has showed consistent growth at the polls since 1994. This indicates that many people are starting to see the DA as their home, irrespective of their skin colour.
Yes, Gwebecimele! Is 10% of the ANC’s supportbase white? Is it consciously trying to attract white voters? (We will not even mention Juju…)
That double-standard att work again!
It is interesting to note the results of a recent Ipsos Markinor survey on the political parties. In terms of our discussion here on race, the following table provides some support for what the DA claim:
Political party support profile: among different race groups – May 2010
African National Congress (ANC) Black – 92.4% White – 2.5% Coloured – 3.8% Indian – 1.3%
Democratic Alliance (DA) Black – 9.9% White – 51.4% Coloured – 31.5% Indian – 7.2%
Congress of the People (COPE) Black – 77.8% White – 11.1% Coloured – 10.4% Indian – 0.7%
It is interesting to note that of the top three parties (those political parties that currently attract more than 3% of eligible voters) the DA seems to attract a more racially diverse support group. The most dominant racial group of DA supporters are still whites who make up just over half (51,4%) of the support base, but coloured South Africans now make up almost third (31,5%) and black South Africans make up a tenth (9,9%). Supporters of the ANC and COPE (to a lesser degree than the ANC) are overwhelmingly black. COPE has a small percentage of white and coloured support – around 10% each.
Samantha, to put the education crisis in perspective you ought to remind us what slices of their budget other developing countries allocate to education.
Michael Osborne says:
July 28, 2010 at 15:04 pm
Hey Michael,
“does this study not support Zille’s boast that the DA is the most multiracial party?”
Without all the data, it’s difficult to draw conclusions.
The only thing that is clear is that the ANC would win decisively if a National election were held soon.
I suspect (without much data to support that view) that it, the ANC, will not do so well at the LGE.
Maggs, how does that answer Michael’s question, pray tell?
Would you like to hazard a conclusion based on the available data?
Is there weakness in the methodology Ipsos Markinor employed in their study you would like to take them up on?
Brett Nortje says:
July 28, 2010 at 17:32 pm
“Would you like to hazard a conclusion based on the available data?”
No.
BTW, did you join GFSA yet?
Would you like to give us a clue as to the origin of the data you’re still awaiting?
@ Samantha
With respect, Samantha, your pro-DA sloganeering is making my soul sore.
Fact is, Madam Zille is a racist little girl.
(She also has liberal white tendency.)
Thanks.
@ Mikhail,
How thoughtless of me… I thought this was a forum for people to be educated on issues of relevance.
I had obviously not allowed for people with as weak a constitution as yours. Perhaps you should have a browse through the ANC website for a bit of soul searc….erm healing!!
Brett Nortje says:
July 28, 2010 at 17:57 pm
“Would you like to give us a clue as to the origin of the data you’re still awaiting?”
An early indication, perhaps, that you’re, er, clueless?
Samantha says:
July 28, 2010 at 19:03 pm
Hey Samantha,
Dworky is as anti-ANC as it gets and also anti-Black.
Hey Dworky
Good news – the semi autonomous republic of Zillestan is about to become the semi autonomous republic of Zilledelillestan (if you can tell the difference)
LOL! Thanks, Maggs! You just won me R20. So predictable!
Brett Nortje says:
July 28, 2010 at 22:20 pm
Someone took a bet with you?????
And you won??
So there’s someone that you’re a bit sharper than!
I would not have believed that is possible, but since you say it and you’re not bright enough to make up something as complex as that, I guess I have to remain astounded.
It seems that at its core, much of the present discussion can be distilled to the simple question of which of two parties – the ANC or the DA – has the moral authority to set this country’s normative vision. I have to say that, judging from what I’ve seen, it’s probably the DA that presently enjoys the higher ground.
I think two linked features of the way in which the ANC partisans have debated suggest that the DA enjoys the moral advantage: the first is that the ANC’s proponents have not pointed to much in the way of socio-economic improvements or achievements in those provinces run by the ANC. (Perhaps that’s because the few examples there are to be had are easily nullified by the ANC’s overabundance of failures.) The second is that apparently, they cannot really refute the view that if in terms of governmental efficacy, the ANC was to be measured against the DA, the former would lose.
So in sum, while I don’t want to be insensitive, it could be reasonable to deduce that the best that many ANC proponents can do is to bang on about DA ills – which, given some of the statistical material provided by Samantha in her posts dated 28 July at 16:40pm and 16:56pm respectively, seem to speak more to misperception rather than actuality. But the rest of us can do better. And we can do so by asking ourselves a pretty straightforward question: are we justified in inferring that if electoral outcomes in this country were truly predicated on governmental efficacy, that the DA would run away with the prize? Maybe so.
(And Mikhail, I would ask one thing of you with a view to curtailing the scope of your near-inevitable comment: by all means, sound off about how the many evils in our country are all, in one way or another, ascribable to liberal whites. Strange as it may seem, I’ve learned to live with your logic. But please mate, if I can prevail upon you to extend me just one courtesy, do not talk about your feelings. I just can’t bear to hear about your wounded heart.)
Leigh, I simply must tell you that my heart is sore and my spirit brought low by your manifest liberal racist tendency. The DA is efficient – yes. But only insofar as it seeks to preserve for white liberals all the benefits of the marginalisation of our people by colonialism and apartheid.
Mikkie, I’m stunned. In our community of debaters, you’re precisely the one who bangs on about ‘respek’. And yet, I ask you for the tiniest measure of courtesy, and you get emotional. And I thought all junior freedom fighters learnt the value practicing what they preach.
I don’t know that it speaks to misperception rather than reality. The DA should be shouting out the message that it is the most multiracial party in SA from the rooftops. The fact that it is not clearly disseminating this message is probably due to habit. Not taking a clear stand on any issue in order to let people think what they want and project what they want and avoid upsetting anyone or running them off.
Sadly, the DA has fencesat on so many issues so long so often that the only members left with balls are women. LOL!
@ Leigh,
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. It is for the very reasons that you give that the ANC and it’s supporters can only use one form of attack against the DA and that is the race card. And, I have a feeling that even that is starting to have little impact, particularly in those areas where the DA govern.
The problem too, is that the ANC are even having to concede that the DA are doing a better job of governing than they are. Recently, Midvaal Municipality in Gauteng was declared the best Municipality for Quality of Life in that Province.
Interesting, Times Live have run an article this morning that suggests that more than half of South Africans actually respect each other, across the race divide.
I still believe that the average South African is too busy trying to get on with their life than to worry about the politics of race. I believe that the racial divide is being promoted by politicians and the media. South Africans want a better life for themselves and their families. Ultimately, they will begin to vote for a party that truly offers them that.
@ Brett,
Perhaps the DA do not promote their diversity as well as they can. However, the DA do not want to focus everything they do around race, because all that does is highlight our differences. The DA believes that all races have more in common than we do not and as a party, we would rather focus on our shared values and vision as a people than on our differences.
Furthermore, the DA believes that empty rhetoric can only be maintained for so long. We would rather prove that there is a better life under the DA by governing through excellence. And we are doing that.
Brett Nortje says:
July 28, 2010 at 16:55 pm
“Yes, Gwebecimele! Is 10% of the ANC’s supportbase white? Is it consciously trying to attract white voters? (We will not even mention Juju…)
That double-standard att work again!”
Let me assist you with maths. ANC WHITE support cannot be 10%, INFACT my claim is supported by the survey that ANC White support is 2,5% national and should be less in WC probably 1% .
My argument is simple. If African Blacks were to apply the same voting strategy as Whites(DA) then the loosers would be the minorities and it will divide the country. What is not good for ANC & Country should not be good for DA(Whites).
Unlike DA and others, ANC has more proportional representation of minorities in its leadership and do not hide them under youth structures.
Look beyond the figures, BTW this is a survey and not a census or elections.
@ Gwebecimele,
Like so many other people, you appear to be fixated on race-based politics and merely highlight the point that your affiliation to an organisation is based on race and not on policy.
Furthermore, your dismissal of the DA Youth indicates that even where inroads are being made, you will ultimately always dismiss the DA on the basis that they are, in your mind, a white party.
This is unfortunate, as the youth in this country need help and the nationalism and focus of race-based politicking displayed by the ANCYL and its ilk, is precisely why the youth will seek alternatives where their issues are being driven.
Currently, there are 4.312 million people unemployed in SA. Of these, 72% are between the ages of 15 and 34. Pravin Gordhan announced in his budget speech this year that the government would implement a youth wage subsidy to assist young, inexperienced job-seekers find work. A discussion document on this policy was promised by the end of March. Cosatu and the SACP have come out strongly against this policy and because of their influence on the ANC, nothing has happened.
In the meantime, the DA-run Western Cape government have implemented a Work and Skills Project that provides a R 1000 subsidy to 18-35 year olds for 12 months of work experience. So far, 731 young people have been placed at 34 companies.
Gwebe is right.
Samantha, most people do not even know the name of the DA’s “youth” leader.
Mr Malema may not be everyone’s cup of tea. He has a lot to learn.
But at least he has made some interesting policy proposals — unlike your youth leader, from whom we never hear.
And, as Mr Zuma has said, Mr Malema is worthy to inherit the ANC.
Thanks.
@ Mikhail,
You are so right – publicity does a leader make. That could be the only explanation for Zuma being our President!!
Khume Ramulifho was obviously too busy working to make the headlines every 5 minutes, which is why you don’t know his name.
But, here’s a heads-up: Watch for the names of Makashule Gana and Mbali Ntuli our new DAY leaders. I have a feeling you’ll be hearing more from them!!
Gwebecimele says:
July 29, 2010 at 10:25 am
Hey Gwebs,
“Is 10% of the ANC’s support base white?”
That would be impossible.
It’s easy for other parties to get 10% of their support base to be African :
- 10% of 65% = a very big number. in the millions
WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS WHEN WE ARE ALL EQUAL.
MY FOOT, BLOODY AGENTS.
http://www.fin24.com/Business/White-males-still-dominate-20100729
- 10% of <15% = a very small number, maybe in the thousands
@ Samantha
It may assist our discussion if you stop selectively quoting my postings. I have indicated many ANC policies that I support namely Strong Regulation & Government intervention in all sectors, NHI, Land Redistribution & Rural Dev, BBBEE, AA, EE, Socialism/Pro poor/Pro unions etc and all of these are what the DA is against and these are not race based politics.
I can safely say the ANC is the only party with comprensive policy framework but lacks in implementation and sectoral planning.
DA has zero except for slogans hence no DA leader is able to explain their policy position.
You say:
“Currently, there are 4.312 million people unemployed in SA. Of these, 72% are between the ages of 15 and 34.”
I say:
Since when are we expecting 15-18 to be working or are they good labour for picking up grapes in the WC.
Let me repeat!!!!!!
My argument is simple. If African Blacks were to apply the same voting strategy as Whites(DA) then the loosers would be the minorities and it will divide the country. What is not good for ANC & Country should not be good for DA(Whites).
@ Gwebecimele,
I apologise. I did not have the time to scroll through the comments on all blogs to find your previous postings on the ANC policies you support. Accordingly, I am responding to your comments as they are posted.
You obviously have not taken the time to investigate the DA policies, hence your ignorance of what the DA stands for. The DA has policies that have actually been vetted by numerous experts to determine what their financial and implementation efficacy would be. Contrary to the fly-by-the-seat of your pants policies implemented by the ANC. A prime example of which is OBE which has been rejected throughout the world, yet implemented here and declared 12 years later to have been a mistake. In fact, the ANC are now using elements of the DA policies in their own policy making. So, please, do not tell me that the ANC have policies and the DA have none.
Please cite me an example of a DA leader being incapable of explaining a policy position. I would be most interested.
I think your dismissal of my statistics is somewhat childish, to be honest. The law allows for people to begin working from 15 years of age. Do you honestly expect us all to believe that every child in this country is at school and studying right through to matric. Do you know how many child-headed families we have in this country where these children are forced to go to work to support their siblings?
You accuse me of being selective and yet do precisely the same thing.
Finally, I am afraid I have no idea what you are trying to say in your final paragraph. But were I to hazard a guess, it appears that you are arguing against the rights of minority parties to represent their voters, which to my thinking is anti-democracy. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Samantha, I’d just like to say that you’ve done a very good job of representing the DA on this blog. Keep it up. Your responses have been clear and well-substantiated – which really, I’m sorry but not at all surprised to say, makes them vastly different from the fare offered by most of the ANC proponents who seem predisposed to (a) deciding on thoughtless conclusions and thereafter (b) adopting the die-hard attitude of sticking to them no matter what.
And while on the topic of the general calibre of partisanship present on this blog, I think I should add that the general corpus of ANC supporters might want to look at Mzo’s post. Unless I’ve misconstrued his post (in which case he’d have my apology), he intimates that the DA is not yet but could be a party he’d vote for – which intimation suggests a commitment to non-racialism and meritocracy. And that stance is meaningfully different from the infantile positions adopted by some South Africans which can be articulated thus: (1) ANC for life; (2) the DA members are racist because they say bad things about the ANC; (3) corruption happens everywhere so stop picking on the ANC; (4) Zuma is president (finish and klaar) and so on.
Leigh, thank you for your post.
I have always tried not to make my posts DA-based precisely because of the fact that as soon as some people see any support of the DA, they label me as a white racist and refuse to listen to reason. Furthermore, they argue exactly as you have indicated in your post, which results in discussions degenerating into slanging matches.
One of my passions in life is education – in all forms. I believe that by adopting an apologetic stance to my DA membership is going to do nothing to dispel the illusions created by die-hard ANC supporters, so I have decided to come out of the closet and declare my DA membership status.
And perhaps, people who were misinformed might begin to understand what the true visions, values and policies of the DA are.