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	<title>Comments on: On debate, analysis and &#8220;objectivity&#8221;</title>
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	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Friend</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15512</link>
		<dc:creator>Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15512</guid>
		<description>Lara, my work&#039;s intranet does not allow that site as the content is not suitable, but, let me tell you your questioin is not new, philosophers over the centuries have asked this question and I could give you a response without referring to the article.
Here we assume that the courts are there for law and order to govern a society. I&#039;ll continue Monday enjoy Chris, the weekend cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lara, my work&#8217;s intranet does not allow that site as the content is not suitable, but, let me tell you your questioin is not new, philosophers over the centuries have asked this question and I could give you a response without referring to the article.<br />
Here we assume that the courts are there for law and order to govern a society. I&#8217;ll continue Monday enjoy Chris, the weekend cheers</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mcdaniel</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15509</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mcdaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15509</guid>
		<description>Francis Marion Braidfute // Jun 26, 2009 at 1:55 pm 

this was your conclusion and question towards friend

&quot;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?&quot;

&quot;The following is a document, sent to among others the Constitutional Court Chief Justice ni 2004, encouraging a debate and frank discussion on the issues we are here discussing…, and the consequences of deicisons made by the judiciary, which ripple through society and affect our daily lives.&quot;

You asked &quot;what do I think&quot; giving you a bit of a guidence on what legal social engineering is actually about.

if social engineering was not your main objective then way talk about it and and ask a question about it??

Maybe I should ask you your question &quot;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Francis Marion Braidfute // Jun 26, 2009 at 1:55 pm </p>
<p>this was your conclusion and question towards friend</p>
<p>&#8220;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The following is a document, sent to among others the Constitutional Court Chief Justice ni 2004, encouraging a debate and frank discussion on the issues we are here discussing…, and the consequences of deicisons made by the judiciary, which ripple through society and affect our daily lives.&#8221;</p>
<p>You asked &#8220;what do I think&#8221; giving you a bit of a guidence on what legal social engineering is actually about.</p>
<p>if social engineering was not your main objective then way talk about it and and ask a question about it??</p>
<p>Maybe I should ask you your question &#8220;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Marion Braidfute</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15503</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Marion Braidfute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15503</guid>
		<description>Chris McDaniel,

From your response, it appears you did not read the article, you only took one sub-chapter heading, ignored the rest, ignored the context, ignored the information where you could get context, and came to your own conclusion about what I meant. 

I did not mean what you think I meant. If you want to know what I meant, read the article, if you wish, but your interpretation, as to what I meant is inaccurate. Here again is the article, and additional contextual information, should you be interested in accurately interpreting what I meant: &lt;a href=&quot;http://crimeninuria.blogspot.com/2009/01/11-june-2004-essay-on-proudly-south.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fraudulent ‘Rehabilitation’ Boomerang: Correctional Services Prison Policies As A Major Intentional Source of New South Africa’s ‘Kaffirs’ AKA ‘Criminals’&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris McDaniel,</p>
<p>From your response, it appears you did not read the article, you only took one sub-chapter heading, ignored the rest, ignored the context, ignored the information where you could get context, and came to your own conclusion about what I meant. </p>
<p>I did not mean what you think I meant. If you want to know what I meant, read the article, if you wish, but your interpretation, as to what I meant is inaccurate. Here again is the article, and additional contextual information, should you be interested in accurately interpreting what I meant: <a href="http://crimeninuria.blogspot.com/2009/01/11-june-2004-essay-on-proudly-south.html" rel="nofollow">Fraudulent ‘Rehabilitation’ Boomerang: Correctional Services Prison Policies As A Major Intentional Source of New South Africa’s ‘Kaffirs’ AKA ‘Criminals’</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre de Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15486</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre de Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15486</guid>
		<description>Skhokho Radebe, I ahve written reams about the DA et al and had quite a spat with Ms Zille at some point. Just search the Blog to see. Next time before yuo hurl insults first check your facts. I find it helps to prevent making a fool of oneself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skhokho Radebe, I ahve written reams about the DA et al and had quite a spat with Ms Zille at some point. Just search the Blog to see. Next time before yuo hurl insults first check your facts. I find it helps to prevent making a fool of oneself.</p>
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		<title>By: Garg</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15476</link>
		<dc:creator>Garg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15476</guid>
		<description>Skhokho Radebe:
You are right. You couldn&#039;t have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skhokho Radebe:<br />
You are right. You couldn&#8217;t have.</p>
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		<title>By: Skhokho Radebe</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15470</link>
		<dc:creator>Skhokho Radebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15470</guid>
		<description>Why dont you write anything about the DA, the FF-plus and other noteworthy nonsense about these????. The answer is simple, you are racist to the bone professor. With all the goons who support your views on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why dont you write anything about the DA, the FF-plus and other noteworthy nonsense about these????. The answer is simple, you are racist to the bone professor. With all the goons who support your views on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Skhokho Radebe</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15469</link>
		<dc:creator>Skhokho Radebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15469</guid>
		<description>Spuy and Mdu couldn&#039;t have said it better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spuy and Mdu couldn&#8217;t have said it better.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Mcdaniel</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15437</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Mcdaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15437</guid>
		<description>Francis Marion Braidfute // Jun 24, 2009 at 2:31 pm 


&quot;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?&quot;

how you wording that makes it sound like the Constitutional Court is practicing nannyism i dont like what I read here. sorry Im with Friend on this one and Ill show you why

you got to be carefull here social engineering is a means of trying to control human behaviors with the emphasis of law

whats the danger to the constitutional court practicing social engineering is that you suggesting the Concourt should be supervisor and engineerer. It is then that social life commits to the state to social engineering. The state inturn becomes a social engineer and inturn holds its subjects to assessment and can deny there normative suitability and standing. 

What your advocating for is infact totalization.

What the Concourt should be is a authoritative claim rather than a authoritarian impulse and life should not be colonized by state norms.

We are self owing and self authoring beings before and beyond law and politics. You want the concourt to move the focus of equality from freedom from laws that disrespect  our equaility and autonomy to freedom to occupy state-approved forms of life. 

a good example of this was making gay marriages illegal now its legal but how much rights do they enjoy as the married hetros?
and since when now does gay marriage all of a sudden become a right? 

what about females in musilim marriages? 

what your also suggesting that the super elit of the concourt is now in tune with changing public opinion.

This legal social engineering from the Concourt becomes judical supremacy and not constitutional democracy.

Abraham Lincoln 1861
 &quot;i do not forget the position assumed by some, that constitutional questions are to be decided by the Surpreme Court, nor do I deny that such decisions must be binding in any case, upon a party to a suit....At the same time the candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government, upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Surpreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will seize to be there own rulers.

You may wish the Concourt to rule you through legal social engineering, Im afriad im my own person and rather control my own legal social engineering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Francis Marion Braidfute // Jun 24, 2009 at 2:31 pm </p>
<p>&#8220;So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?&#8221;</p>
<p>how you wording that makes it sound like the Constitutional Court is practicing nannyism i dont like what I read here. sorry Im with Friend on this one and Ill show you why</p>
<p>you got to be carefull here social engineering is a means of trying to control human behaviors with the emphasis of law</p>
<p>whats the danger to the constitutional court practicing social engineering is that you suggesting the Concourt should be supervisor and engineerer. It is then that social life commits to the state to social engineering. The state inturn becomes a social engineer and inturn holds its subjects to assessment and can deny there normative suitability and standing. </p>
<p>What your advocating for is infact totalization.</p>
<p>What the Concourt should be is a authoritative claim rather than a authoritarian impulse and life should not be colonized by state norms.</p>
<p>We are self owing and self authoring beings before and beyond law and politics. You want the concourt to move the focus of equality from freedom from laws that disrespect  our equaility and autonomy to freedom to occupy state-approved forms of life. </p>
<p>a good example of this was making gay marriages illegal now its legal but how much rights do they enjoy as the married hetros?<br />
and since when now does gay marriage all of a sudden become a right? </p>
<p>what about females in musilim marriages? </p>
<p>what your also suggesting that the super elit of the concourt is now in tune with changing public opinion.</p>
<p>This legal social engineering from the Concourt becomes judical supremacy and not constitutional democracy.</p>
<p>Abraham Lincoln 1861<br />
 &#8220;i do not forget the position assumed by some, that constitutional questions are to be decided by the Surpreme Court, nor do I deny that such decisions must be binding in any case, upon a party to a suit&#8230;.At the same time the candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government, upon vital questions, affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Surpreme Court, the instant they are made, in ordinary litigation between parties, in personal actions, the people will seize to be there own rulers.</p>
<p>You may wish the Concourt to rule you through legal social engineering, Im afriad im my own person and rather control my own legal social engineering.</p>
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		<title>By: Slum Dweller</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15436</link>
		<dc:creator>Slum Dweller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15436</guid>
		<description>It looks to me we are on the &#039;Hlippery Hlope&#039; to the &#039;Banana Republic&#039; as foretold by others.

The fact that the Honorable JH legally received a stipend from that August Institution is debatable.
That he actually ruled the same Institution could proceed against another judge, without recusing himself is what questions his moral paucity.

Doing something immoral and believing you are not &#039;wrong&#039; unless you are caught out, then believing you are considered innocent until proven guilty is not a moral compass that should be admired by anyone especially someone in the Judiciary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks to me we are on the &#8216;Hlippery Hlope&#8217; to the &#8216;Banana Republic&#8217; as foretold by others.</p>
<p>The fact that the Honorable JH legally received a stipend from that August Institution is debatable.<br />
That he actually ruled the same Institution could proceed against another judge, without recusing himself is what questions his moral paucity.</p>
<p>Doing something immoral and believing you are not &#8216;wrong&#8217; unless you are caught out, then believing you are considered innocent until proven guilty is not a moral compass that should be admired by anyone especially someone in the Judiciary.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Marion Braidfute</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-debate-analysis-and-objectivity/#comment-15431</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Marion Braidfute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=1144#comment-15431</guid>
		<description>Friend, 

I am not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say, with: &quot;Constitutional law interpretation is usually not very emotional, definitions to all words are also given usually in section 1 of most acts and when I say act, I mean a piece of legislation passed by Government that affects our daily lives.&quot;

Here is an example about how their &#039;emotional restraint&#039; in Constituitonal interpreation.. is affecting your daily life.... 

The following is a document, sent to among others the Constitutional Court Chief Justice ni 2004, encouraging a debate and frank discussion on the issues we are here discussing..., and the consequences of deicisons made by the judiciary, which ripple through society and affect our daily lives. 

&lt;i&gt;The need to deny something in oneself, is frequently an underlying motive for certain odd behaviour -- even up to and including crime. For example: Most sex crimes are committed by undersexed rather than oversexed individuals, often undersized rather than oversized, and impelled less by lust than by a need for reassurance regarding an impaired masculinity. The unconscious fear of women goards some men with a compulsive urge to conquer, humiliate, hurt, or render powerless some available sample of womanhood. [10]

Prof. Karl Menningers colleague, Bruno Bettelheim, thought that we do not properly educate our youth to deal with their violent urges. He reminds us that nothing fascinated our forefathers more. The Iliad is a poem of violence. Much of the Bible is a record of violence. Our penal system and many methods of child-rearing express violence -- &quot;violence to suppress violence.&quot; And, he concludes in the article &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;Violence: A Neglected Mode of Behaviour&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;: 
&lt;b&gt;&quot;We shall not be able to deal intelligently with violence unless we are first ready to see it as part of human nature, and then we shall come to realize the chances of discharging violent tendences are now so severely curtailed that their regular and safe draining-off is not possible anymore.&quot;&lt;/b&gt; [10]

That information is from evidence led before US Supreme Court, in Brown vs. Board of Education, and is quoted, and made relevant to South AFrican criminal justice issues, in a document to Constitutional Court Chief Justice: Arthur Chaskalson, in 2004: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scribd.com/doc/5502714/040611-Essay-on-Proudly-South-African-Parasite-Hypocrisy-Fraudulent-Rehabilitation-Boomerang-Correctional-Services-Prison-Policies-As-A-Major-I&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fraudulent &#039;Rehabilitation&#039; Boomerang: Correctional Services Prison Policies As A Major Intentional Source of New South Africa&#039;s &#039;Kaffirs&#039; AKA &#039;Criminals&#039;&lt;/a&gt;.

• Forward: Social Engineers or Parasites
• Introduction: Nothing Succeeds Like Failure
• Incarceration&#039;s Consequences on Community Development and Human Capital
• Social Functioning Process Problems: Our Social Systems Destructive Social Character vs Creative Morality
• The Obedient Sado-Masochist Bureaucrat&#039;s Blueprint for Criminal Justice Policies
• Does South Africa&#039;s punishment masquerading as &#039;rehabilitation&#039; political penal policy exist not to deter criminality, but to covertly serve our latent desire for vengeance and superiority? 
• Dissent, or, Obedience and Conformity to Authority? 
• Proudly South African: Unconsciously United in the Pathology of Aggression, Violence &amp; Revenge
• Interactive Action-Oriented Living Laboratory Mentoring Voluntary Offer
• HOW: Reciprocity: Alternative Models of the Social Correctional Expert
• WHY: Building Psychic Freedom Muscles: Regular and safe draining off of Rage, Anger &amp; Hopelessness 
• WHO: Mutual-Help Destiny-Control Colleagues: A Guide for Peaceful Revolution in South Africa
• Conclusion: Your Crime Against Criminals &amp; Yourselves 
• POSTSCRIPT: Are YOU a Social Engineer or a Parasite?

So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Friend, </p>
<p>I am not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say, with: &#8220;Constitutional law interpretation is usually not very emotional, definitions to all words are also given usually in section 1 of most acts and when I say act, I mean a piece of legislation passed by Government that affects our daily lives.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is an example about how their &#8216;emotional restraint&#8217; in Constituitonal interpreation.. is affecting your daily life&#8230;. </p>
<p>The following is a document, sent to among others the Constitutional Court Chief Justice ni 2004, encouraging a debate and frank discussion on the issues we are here discussing&#8230;, and the consequences of deicisons made by the judiciary, which ripple through society and affect our daily lives. </p>
<p><i>The need to deny something in oneself, is frequently an underlying motive for certain odd behaviour &#8212; even up to and including crime. For example: Most sex crimes are committed by undersexed rather than oversexed individuals, often undersized rather than oversized, and impelled less by lust than by a need for reassurance regarding an impaired masculinity. The unconscious fear of women goards some men with a compulsive urge to conquer, humiliate, hurt, or render powerless some available sample of womanhood. [10]</p>
<p>Prof. Karl Menningers colleague, Bruno Bettelheim, thought that we do not properly educate our youth to deal with their violent urges. He reminds us that nothing fascinated our forefathers more. The Iliad is a poem of violence. Much of the Bible is a record of violence. Our penal system and many methods of child-rearing express violence &#8212; &#8220;violence to suppress violence.&#8221; And, he concludes in the article </i><i><b>Violence: A Neglected Mode of Behaviour</b></i>:<br />
<b>&#8220;We shall not be able to deal intelligently with violence unless we are first ready to see it as part of human nature, and then we shall come to realize the chances of discharging violent tendences are now so severely curtailed that their regular and safe draining-off is not possible anymore.&#8221;</b> [10]</p>
<p>That information is from evidence led before US Supreme Court, in Brown vs. Board of Education, and is quoted, and made relevant to South AFrican criminal justice issues, in a document to Constitutional Court Chief Justice: Arthur Chaskalson, in 2004: <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/5502714/040611-Essay-on-Proudly-South-African-Parasite-Hypocrisy-Fraudulent-Rehabilitation-Boomerang-Correctional-Services-Prison-Policies-As-A-Major-I" rel="nofollow">Fraudulent &#8216;Rehabilitation&#8217; Boomerang: Correctional Services Prison Policies As A Major Intentional Source of New South Africa&#8217;s &#8216;Kaffirs&#8217; AKA &#8216;Criminals&#8217;</a>.</p>
<p>• Forward: Social Engineers or Parasites<br />
• Introduction: Nothing Succeeds Like Failure<br />
• Incarceration&#8217;s Consequences on Community Development and Human Capital<br />
• Social Functioning Process Problems: Our Social Systems Destructive Social Character vs Creative Morality<br />
• The Obedient Sado-Masochist Bureaucrat&#8217;s Blueprint for Criminal Justice Policies<br />
• Does South Africa&#8217;s punishment masquerading as &#8216;rehabilitation&#8217; political penal policy exist not to deter criminality, but to covertly serve our latent desire for vengeance and superiority?<br />
• Dissent, or, Obedience and Conformity to Authority?<br />
• Proudly South African: Unconsciously United in the Pathology of Aggression, Violence &amp; Revenge<br />
• Interactive Action-Oriented Living Laboratory Mentoring Voluntary Offer<br />
• HOW: Reciprocity: Alternative Models of the Social Correctional Expert<br />
• WHY: Building Psychic Freedom Muscles: Regular and safe draining off of Rage, Anger &amp; Hopelessness<br />
• WHO: Mutual-Help Destiny-Control Colleagues: A Guide for Peaceful Revolution in South Africa<br />
• Conclusion: Your Crime Against Criminals &amp; Yourselves<br />
• POSTSCRIPT: Are YOU a Social Engineer or a Parasite?</p>
<p>So, what do you think, do the South African Constituional Court, practice being legal social engineers to problem solving, or prefer to be Judicial Parasites?</p>
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