I must admit it made a welcome change: Instead of cringing with embarrassment, I sat at the traffic light and gave a little cheer when I heard on the radio what ANC Youth League President Julius Malema had said about HIV/AIDS. Speaking at the Pan African Youth Union, Malema said it is up to Africa’s youth to stop the spread of HIV/Aids. He called on the continent’s youth to promote safe sex, the use of condoms and the proper use of anti-retroviral medication and continued:
Ours should be about ensuring that condoms become fashionable. Every time you greet each other you must ask, how are you? Do you have a condom with you? It should not be an apologetic issue.
Maybe if someone as outspoken and popular as Julius Malema puts his full weight (so to speak) behind a campaign to make condoms fashionable and urges young people to insist on condom use we have a chance to turn this thing around. Maybe if Malema and others drop the ridiculous and counter-productive notion that we will stop the spread of HIV if we promote the ABC (”abstain”, or “be faithful” and if you cannot do the above ”use a condom” – in other words, insist on a condom if you want everyone to think you are promiscuous), we have a chance.
Of course, our leaders should have said this kind of things many years ago, before hundreds of thousands of people had died needlessly of HIV related illnesses. But I suppose its better late than never, so I will be the first to applaud Mr Malema and to encourage him to continue the good work.
But then, another publication reported that at the same event, commenting on the call by Young Communist League leader Buti Manamela that Manto Tshabalala-Msimang and Thabo Mbeki should be charged with genocide for not providing dying South Africans with anti-retroviral drugs, Mr Malema said the following:
We must never surrender our leaders. Thabo Mbeki might have made mistakes but we can never charge him. We must not charge one of our own. If we allow that, the same thing would happen to [Zimbabwean President Robert] Mugabe, and the same would happen to [President Jacob] Zuma, and the next thing you know they will come for you.
Now, I do not want to get involved in a debate here on whether Mbeki and Tshabalala-Msimang should be charged with genocide and whether such a charge against them would stick. I do wish to take issue with young Julius’s view on the Rule of Law though. Saying that one should never charge one of your own is dangerous and undermines the Constitution and the Rule of Law.
Our leaders, no matter how well respected and loved, are not above the law. If they break the law they have to be charged. Just like every other South African – whether she lives in Houghton or Lusikisiki, Bischops Court or Pofadder, Witsieshoek or Nkandla – a leader in a constitutional democracy is not above the law.
Suggesting that leaders – because they are our leaders – should never be charged with any crime, no matter how heinous that leader’s actions have been, how detrimental to the poor and downtrodden, how murderous or anti-democratic, demonstrates a profoundly undemocratic and anti- constitutional view of politics.
This is the kind of view that allows young politicians like Julius Malema to jump out of his car in a dazed state and express his existential confusion by urgently asking those who stopped him to please tell him who he was. It is the kind of view which holds that leaders are beyond criticism and that even if they do the most shocking things, they should be above the law. Down that road lies tyranny, despotism and the most egregious abuses of the rights of ordinary citizens by powerful leaders: it is the way of Pol Pot, Adolt Hitler and Idi Amin.
In a constitutional state, leaders should actually be beyond reproach. If we are going to charge anyone it should be our leaders who have broken the law. In a constitutional democracy we entrust them with our money, our well-being and our futures and if they abuse that trust by stealing our money, killing political opponents or ordering the police to torture the leaders of social movements who are critical of them, such leaders seize being worthy of our respect and, in effect, seize being our leaders at all.
What worries me is that Julius sees himself as a leader as well and hence believes that he is also above the law. No wonder he has failed to pay so many speeding fines and called his friends in government to reprimand traffic cops who had the audacity to stop him for speeding. Today it is traffic fines, tomorrow it is hit squads and torture.
Ag nee man Julius, just when I thought the media had been treating you harshly you say something like this which reminds me that you have a lot to learn about constitutional democracy and the Rule of Law. Stick to the condoms and HIV: at least you are doing good work on that front.
I think we do need to acknowledge that Mbeki denied to participate in “public stunts” to encourage South African awareness about the devastating impact of HIV & AIDS on the continent, especially in South Africa. He did not believe that HIV causes AIDS solely but a syndrome does. It was an academic debate no one is barred to engage in.
The government has changed and taking progressive steps to invigorate the prevention of new infections by clear programmatic actitivites beyond clear promotional messages. The idea of genocidal charges may not be sustained in a court of law as Mbeki did not force any single person to engage in unprotected sex, safe for the negligible number of those infected in the course of duty and or medical procedures and other possibilites including criminality.
The main fountain of further infections is deliberate or ignorant sexual activism. We as a society are to blame. We are the ones the International criminal court will fault. I do not think we must spent our energy inflicting pain on Mbeki who has suffered enough humiliation for his poor leadership. We certainly cannot sentence Zuma for the prevalent crime wave in the country in the future. All we must do is to summon our thinking qualities on strategies to combat crime and disease.
I do think that medicinal interventions, appropriate dietary options, physical exercise, protective sexual activities, faithfulness and abstainance are all multiple levers to ameliorate infection and enhance treatment and management of HIV & AIDS.
We must unleash unsterile possitive energy not the negative retributive energy in us. This will not add any value to combating the spectre of massive infections amont the african community.
As for the elements of not fighting Mbeki for merely being one of our own; it was merely a political utturance which was not meant for the strict legalistic funnel. It was a shot at Manamela by his contemporary. It will certainly stagnate in the funnel it was a legal argument. It was a layperson’s contribution. It will be processed by the gust of air in the open discourse. Prof. De Vos could not be more correct.
Prof, good post and I agree with you in every respect, we cannot merely protect Mugabe just because he’s one of our own, and yes Mr Malema we need to encourage the youth to like and use condoms if we are to win.
Prof has raised a most important point in this post. While it may (sometimes) be interesting or entertaining to debate the relative merits of the pronouncements made by Mr. Malema, we miss the point if we do not see the underlying realpolitik behind his utterances.
I do not believe that Mr Malema is “stupid”. He might be under-educated (as is Mr Zuma), but this is a different matter from intelligence.
I believe that the things that he says, from the insults to declarations to demands are all fairly well calculated. While some individual statements may be impetuous, the style and tone are very deliberate. There is a particular audience that quite enjoys the controversy that is stirred up – it is entertaining (perhaps a bit like the appeal of Amichand Rajbansi in some communities in Durban).
From the ANC leadership perspective, Mr Malema makes a very useful testing ground for ideas, or a good attack dog. And if it goes too far, then they can always tut-tut and talk about the “firebrand” youth-leaguers.
But if we try and analyse each pronouncement for its adherence (or otherwise) to respect for the rule of law, then we miss the point that the rule of law probably does not mean anything to him at all. It is all about power. “Outcome A will happen”, “Outcome B will not happen”, “we will nerver…” and so on. The lnguage is all about power.
The other subtext is that we are no longer shocked by what is said. We become de-sensitized and dulled by repeated outrages. The controversy stirred up also steers public discourse away from logic and rationality, and away from a sense of right and wrong – it is all posturing and rhetoric.
Remember the old saying, “Don’t wrestle with pigs – you both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it”.
in my view we are looking at our own “Idi Mugabe”.
@ Cmd Malema
“Every time you greet each other you must ask, how are you? Do you have a condom with you? ”
This is very good advice from Mr Malema. From now on, I will follow it to the letter.
ISHMAEL MALALE says:
November 17, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Yeah – Mbeki has come and gone.
It is surprising, every worrisome, that Malema has become almost the face and voice of the ANC.
I think that he, Malema, has lots of potential – that does not seem to explain why when he speaks everyone else stands down or gets drowned out.
Not so long ago the ANC had many, many intellectuals, political and other experts, spokespeople and leaders who were able to grasp and deal with most contemporary issues.
Now it seems that Malema has become all that and more.
Maybe he has even become the ANC.
@Dworky.
How are you?
@ Maggs
Fine, thanks.
Do you have a condom?
@Sne,
I just wish he breaks his silence on the matter. I wish he could come to see this is the new apartheid and hence see it as something that needs to be defeated. The subject I refer to is AIDS and the profiteering misinformation on this terrible syndrome. I am just saddened by what our new political masters seem to be wanting to be popular without applying thorough critique on the matter. Case in point, the mortality figures that our president and our health minister are throwing around.
Pierre, its Khosi here…
Why is this thing saying that I am posting messages too fast when I am posting as Khosi and not when I am posting as someone else?
Maggs, Dworky,
Hey, enough of this social intercourse…
There is nothing that Malema has said that is in defence of Mbeki or ‘one of our own’. In fact, what Malema has succeeded in doing is to ensure that Mbeki’s name can be said in the same breath with those of Charles Taylor, early 90’s Rwanda army generals etc.
I do not think that Malema does this by mistake. I think, unlike Manemela, Malema is smart enough to understand that NO court in the world will ever try Mbeki on the AIDS issue. Simply because, if Mbeki is tried, he will get a chance to defend himself. What that will then mean is that he will have an internationally televised (maybe live) plartform to question the orthodox HIV and AIDS theory and also the efficacy of ARV. And the problem is that the billion dollar HIV/AIDS industry cannot risk that because they themselves know that their theory leaks like a broken condom (pun very much intended).
And by ‘defending’ Mbeki, Malema is merely dragging Mbekis name through mud. I am afraid that the honourable Ismail Malale seeks to do the same thing with his comments on this blog. This has nothing to do with justice for the ‘poor leadership’ or ‘protecting our own’, it is a straight political ambush.
Mike Atkins says:
November 17, 2009 at 16:26 pm
Maggs, Dworky,
Hey, enough of this social intercourse…
———————————————————————————–
Hello Mike.
How are you?
khosi says:
November 17, 2009 at 16:32 pm
“A damning documentary about former president Thabo Mbeki’s policies on HIV/Aids will be screened on eTV tonight.
“The documentary, entitled Price of Denial, investigates the price South Africa is paying for Mbeki’s policy of denial about HIV/Aids.
“It shows how thousands of babies were unnecessarily infected with the virus even though pharmaceutical companies had offered nevirapine free of charge to the state, reports Beeld newspaper.”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article198211.ece
“The documentary will be screened at 9.30pm on eTV tonight”
Hey Dworky,
“Do you have a condom?”
What say you that Juju’s protection costs R300 000 per month courtesy the South African Protection Services (aka SAPS), complete with blue lights and yours is unholey (free) govt issue picked up at public toilets.
I think you’re jealous.
@ Khosi
I comletely agree with you. The utterances by Malema have nothing to do with standing up for Thabo Mbeki. I was saying to one of colleagues early today after reading about the article Prof. refers to, that I really want Mbeki to be charged for two reasons;
(a) the man has been tried and convicted by the media without being afforded a real opportunity to defend himself and he would get such an opportunity if he were to be formally charged.
(b) such would have allowed us to have a reliable platform (court of law) whereon the dissident ideas about HIV and Aids were going to be canvassed devoid of any media misinformation.
It is also interesting how the media uses snippets to refer to Mbeki denying the existence of the link between HIV and Aids instead of running the entire interview. The problem with snippets is that they may be used to quote people out of context.
This country’s small chance to be a successful Rechtstaat was scotched by Zac Yacoob & Co in Swartbooi when they slapped down the racist Afrikaners on the Free State Bench who had the temerity to hold personally liable the errant councillors of Bothaville – who had intentionally, deliberately denied other councillors their rights under the Constitution – for costs. In a feat of creative interpretation.
It is not only Thabo Mbeki who should be charged with genocide or other crimes against humanity. When the ANC was unbanned Dr. Rina Venter’s health department immediately started discussions with the ANC Womens’ League about AIDS intervention strategies. Consider that SA was a closed society at the time – ocean forming two borders, rivers and electric fencing and patrols by trained, highly skilled soldiers making borders tight, almost impervious, secure. South Africa was the last country on the continent to be hit by the pandemic (which is really a pandemic only on this continent….) with more warning, a better health service and most of all more information about the virus than any of our neighbours. Of course, the result of the ANC’s transformation Sne of the health system is plain for all to see, but far too may people conveniently forget the wars in the ANC Womens’ League between the Winnie Mandela and Albertina SisuluAdelaide Tambo factions which had the practical result that the joint NP/ANC Womens’ League AIDS prevention campaign gathered dust on a shelf while the ANC engaged in more important business. Like infighting. Thanks to the ANC’s irresponsible, shameless, godless approach to governance 6 million people have been condemned to a painful, lingering death.
Does anyone think a PW Botha government would have done less to halt the spread of AIDS?
The whole ANC leadership should be put on trial for genocide.
Khosi is right.
It is Merck, Glaxo and Pfizer that should be on trial for genocide. Not Cmd Mbeki. Cmd Mbeki is constantly being quoted out of context. Because he spoke truth to power, the conventional wisdom aligned against our President.
But remember: This is the same conventional wisdom that wants us to believe that man “evolved” from monkeys, that the CIA/Mossad were not responsible for 9/11, that the earth is not the centre of the solar system, and that there is no such thing as a witch!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
November 17, 2009 at 20:30 pm
Your cynicism is unwarranted.
Just because there are those who suggest that a “virus causes a syndrome” does not mean that it’s true.
I invite you to join the Universal Zetetic Society which will broaden your mind to possibilities other than narrow conventional thinking.
Join up here http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=65
Or here http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm.
BTW – how are you?
Mikhail – you get very funny that time of night (20:30 pm).
Khosi – did you watch the documentary on eTv last night at 21:30? I didn’t. But, I still think TM can be charged with
(G)enocide – oops, couldn’t resist making it a (C)apital crime!
Anonymouse,
I wonder whether teachers sometimes log for the return of capital punishment.
On Julius’ existential confusion: “coito ergo sum” comes to mind..
I think all these utturances of Julius Malema and Manamela are for “sound bite”. Askin calls it posturing and rhetoric. I’m certain that both Malema and Buti Manamela are perfectly aware that it is almost impossible to charge Mbeki for genocide for the ideas he holds regarding the genesis and evolution of particularly AIDS.
Mbeki was faced with a formidable force of pharmaceutical transcorporations hellbent to depict the South African government as unwilling to intervene and obtain medication at exorbitant prices for their pockets. These amorphous class forces are tremendous hegemonic and influence social discourse about the relevance of their products. They extaminate anything on the path of profit accumulation. Manto also suffered for saying ARVs are not the be and all of prevention,treatment and management of HIV & Aids. This is the main one.
Khosi, I think at a deeper level, the assertions of Malema were merely an attempt to weaken and expose Manamela as politically irrelevant and had nothing to do with Mbeki. He would be, propably, the last one to defend Mbeki. I genuinely think we cannot extract any good by attacking Mbeki now. Legally the campaign to charge him is a publicity stunt, unacihevable in practice.
I must say Mbeki is an extremely intelligent personality who failed to carry the weight of the task of leadership to the extent of distrusting his close comrades, miscalculating the mindset of society and the power of the multinational corporation. His failure to appreciate even simple media tactics. What would have detroyed his character and reputation had he taken a public HIV test. He was not legally obliged to even disclose the results thereof. It was a simple thing to do.
Mbeki, who I had always admired together with Ramahlodi as students of Oliver Tambo undermined the rank and file and reposed in confidence only in academicians and shunned person with limited formal education.
The preference of charges against Zuma whom society sympathised with and fixation with being at the helm to finish his comtemporary african rennaisance caused the high office. It is this shortsightened which I regard poor leadership. There had been robust debate for almost an entire night on his recalling. It is a cumulative force of quite a potporri of factors and reasons that precipitated his fall.
As for hos greatness ,there are great many things which can be said about Mbeki including steering the country to a table growing economy; vision for an intergrated african continent on a political and economic paradigm.
We are all entitled to unremitting refute any formulations that malema makes all of us. In the youth league such debates to go on. The President is the face of the organisation. A phenomenon which causes society to conflate personal viewpoints with organisational position. Not all what malema says are correct. There are instances when he had to even apologise for unwise utturances. He is of course a formidable debater and fearless to assert his thoughts. Democracy encourages this debates including his criticism and defence. The product of this sharp exchanges is cross-pollination of ideas and generation of vast tapestry of wisdom.
I forgot to ask for condoms!
I thought the offer was to donate Nevirapine to prevent transmission from mother to the innocent unborn?
Free! Gratis? For nothing?
ISHMAEL MALALE says:
November 18, 2009 at 8:33 am
“As for hos greatness ,there are great many things which can be said about Mbeki including steering the country to a table growing economy;”
There may well be a “great many things which can be said about Mbeki”, but hardly steering the country to a stable growing economy.
It grew despite him, not because of him – the entire world grew during that time; there was no way of stopping growth.
If I recall correctly when Matthews Phosa was Premier of Mpumalanga among the indicators of their growth was that there were more construction cranes per capita in that province than anywhere else in Africa.
And he was on the solid path to adding value to our raw materials – Phosa, as you know, was replaced by a guy who thought that it’s ok for politicians to lie; with that Mpumalanga is not nearly the place that it could have been and our country is fare worse off as a result.
Like the thousands of houses that were built on not-so-solid foundations and are now having to be demolished, so too are the myths that inform the illusion of Mbeki’s greatness.
He can, nevertheless, get credit for putting Africa on the world stage and getting African leaders organised.
At the time Phosa was dumped there was a lot of speculation that he, like Sexwale, looked like Presidential material.
@Anonymouse,
No, I did not. There is absolutely nothing new that I would have learnt. So I preferred to watch Bafana so I could gauge our state of readiness for the best footballers in the world.
@Ishmael
You are one of the bloggers that I hold in high esteem here. Largely because you walk the talk and talk the walk. May I take this opportunity and earnestly thank you and other South Africans who work hard daily for the betterment of all our lives!
Back to the matter at hand.
“What would have detroyed his character and reputation had he taken a public HIV test.”
The question to you is, has Mbeki ever played to the gallery?
His response, to you question was: “No, but it is setting an example within the context of a particular paradigm.”
And I will tell you now that if it is true that uBaba uMsholozi will go ahead and take the public test then that would be a huge misstep on his part and that is my view. I say so because he will only serve to enforce a paradigm that has fail to provide substantive answer to this health emergency for, almost, thirty years now.
P.S. where can I get strawberry flavour condoms, my bokkie loves strawberries!
@ Maggs
“He can, nevertheless, get credit for putting Africa on the world stage and getting African leaders organised”
It is indeed in the foreign policy arena where Pres Mbeki played a special role. Who will ever forget his contribution at the UN with respect to small countries like Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Burma?
Here in Africa, Pres Mbeki co-ordinated a patient, measured approach that ultimately bore fruit. He allowed Zimbabweans to find their own solutions to their own problems. Since leaving office, he continues to coordinate gentle promptings and subtle nudges in Khartoum that may well lead Sudan towards lasting peace. (We will never know how many Darfuris owe their lives to the small but highly effective AU force in that country.)
It is said that a great prophet is never recognised in his own land. Perhaps Mr Mbeki, having been rejected by his own restive and ungrateful people, will be honoured by history as redeemer of his continent.
How fitting.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
November 18, 2009 at 10:26 am
“It is indeed in the foreign policy arena where Pres Mbeki played a special role. Who will ever forget his contribution at the UN with respect to small countries like Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Burma?”
Dworky.
It’s time for you to consider the underlying strategy to deal with this which is not to succumb to the “imperialist agenda”.
As Malema rightly said to the Pan African Youth Union “You must make sure that those who do not subscribe to democratic principles, especially here in Africa, young people must teach those people democracy. You must always be in the forefront to demand that those who lead for a longer time they must create space for new leadership to come in because if they don’t do so they are effectively denying you a right to become a leader tomorrow,”
But “Thabo Mbeki might have made mistakes but we can never charge him. We must not charge one of our own. If we allow that, the same thing would happen to [Zimbabwean President Robert] Mugabe, and the same would happen to [President Jacob] Zuma, and the next thing you know they will come for you,” Malema said.
So there you have it from the most significant voice in our country.
How else can we create a better life for all?
What did you think was meant by “Working together, we can do more”???
p.s. How are you?
Brett Nortje says:
November 18, 2009 at 8:38 am
Brett I think your thoughts are correct. But then Mbeki accused the United States of using Africans as “guinea pigs” and rejected the offer.
I have made my views on Mr Malema plain. Here is an interesting piece in Business Day:
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=87495
The comments on this blog make it abundantly clear, yet again, that if there is one distinguishable factor bedevilling this country it is the complete absence of a sense of shame.
@ Prof.
Marvelous mechanism you got there for detecting duplicate comment. You surely are continuing to improve this blog. Keep up the good work…
Hello, how are you & do you have a condom?
I completely agree with Ishmael on Malema’s intentions. I think he loves the spotlight, and will crush any chancers (Manamela in this case) attempting to steal/share his limelight.
It is also true that Mbeki should get a chance to defend himself and explain his policies/views. I think this may be better if done in a commission of enquiry rather than a genocide trial.
@ Fulu
I am delighted we agree on former President Mbeki being afforded an opportunity to defend himself and his views.
I happen to disagree though on a platform for his defence for the following reasons;
1. In a court of law, Mbeki would have a lot to lose, most notably his freedom by being sent to prison, which may in turn prompt him to defend himself and his government’s policy more vigorously. Needless to say, he would have to adduce evidence which will shed light for us into the views that he held so dearly and spearheaded his government’s policy in respect of the subject matter (HIV/AIDS),
2. The head of the commission so formed may not be empowered to force him and other witnesses to testify whose evidence may be relevant and/or controversial (remember the commission on whether Adv. Vusi Pikoli was fit and proper person to continue to be our DPP in which Bridgette Mabandla refused to testify on her role in the matter?). Such refusals render commissions waste of taxpayers’ money,
3. The Constitution – (s 84(2)(f) – requires that commissions of enquiry be appointed by the President. That President being Jacob Zuma, the commission so appointed may be regarded by some quarters as merely the continuation of the battle between the two leaders on a different front and would greatly diminish its credibility and effectiveness, and
4. Knowing the enmity between the former President Mbeki and President Jacob Zuma or at least their being at loggerheads with each other could result in the appointment of such a commission or its findings doctored to favour the manipulator with the obvious results that the people on the ground would be the ultimate losers…
Based on the above, I still advocate a full trial for genocide against Mbeki. I dare the authorities in this regard. The implications of the full on trial being too ghastly to contemplate, I can safely assume that such a trial would never see the light of day. There is a lot at stake here from drug-producing companies to the removal of the dark clouds looming over the former President’s head which would continue to make the ANC decision to remove him justifiable as long as they remain above his head.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20091120173107856C566238
Malema said he did “not need the permission of white political messiahs to think”.
Indeed.
What’s stopping him then?
HIV/AIDS is still a problem today despite huge medical advances, i am wondering if there would ever be a cure for this disease .
HIV is a nasty disease. Once you get it, there is no cure for it. Safe sex and abstinence is the only way to avoid getting it.
`o““
It is quite scary that there is still no cure for HIV/AIDS and the only way we can fight it is by prevention. How long would it take our scientists to develop a cure or vaccine for this disease?
~~
Yesterday, Cmd Julius Malema said this in response to people questioning his high – gravy-train – lifestyle:
“Ek steel nie van arm mense nie, want my ma was self ’n kombuiswerker. Laat dié mense wat aanbeveel dat my leefstyl geoudit moet word, eerste in die ry staan. Laat alle hoëprofiel-leiers geoudit word. As hulle skoon is, dan weet ons dit én dat hulle beter as God is.”
Translated:
“I do not steal from POOR people [only rich ones], because even my own mother was a domestic worker. Let those people who advocate an audit of my [extremely extravagant lfestyle] be first [in the row to be audited]. Let all high-profile leaders be audited. If THEY [unlike me] are clean, we will know that, and that they are better than God!”
Boy! Hee’s gooood!
julius you suck you dickhead!
you are pretty much a brainless fart…i hope you choke and die on a chappie.