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	<title>Comments on: On Zuma, Zapiro and that cartoon&#8230;.</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Theunissen</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-14156</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Theunissen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 08:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-14156</guid>
		<description>I think the harsh criticisms of Zuma in this cartoon are justified. The metaphor of rape, I believe, is fitting to convey how Zuma treats the justice system. His disregard for some of the fundamental principles of the ANC, and for all the political struggles the country has been through, is analogous, in its horror, to rape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the harsh criticisms of Zuma in this cartoon are justified. The metaphor of rape, I believe, is fitting to convey how Zuma treats the justice system. His disregard for some of the fundamental principles of the ANC, and for all the political struggles the country has been through, is analogous, in its horror, to rape.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Corrigan</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-13194</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Corrigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-13194</guid>
		<description>What do you think now with Zuma and his goons intimidating the NPA into backing off. 
Our justice system is now raped and not even the CSI can assist us.  

I suggest that the Sunday Times place a full page front page cartoon of lady justice after rape has been completed.  i.e. huddled and crying with clothes torn.

Please dont for one minute think that I support rape in any form.  But Zapiro has put his pen exactly on the point.

These &quot;goons&quot; think that they can subvert, defy and rape the rule of law in this land.  What does our constitution stand for if this happens.  

Zimbabwe here we come!!!

Shame on you Zuma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think now with Zuma and his goons intimidating the NPA into backing off.<br />
Our justice system is now raped and not even the CSI can assist us.  </p>
<p>I suggest that the Sunday Times place a full page front page cartoon of lady justice after rape has been completed.  i.e. huddled and crying with clothes torn.</p>
<p>Please dont for one minute think that I support rape in any form.  But Zapiro has put his pen exactly on the point.</p>
<p>These &#8220;goons&#8221; think that they can subvert, defy and rape the rule of law in this land.  What does our constitution stand for if this happens.  </p>
<p>Zimbabwe here we come!!!</p>
<p>Shame on you Zuma.</p>
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		<title>By: RunT</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-11554</link>
		<dc:creator>RunT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-11554</guid>
		<description>well well, very interesting comments there guys!!

lindelani maseko - You are an uneducated biast fool, just like ZUMA.  

Zaphiro for president!!!!

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well well, very interesting comments there guys!!</p>
<p>lindelani maseko &#8211; You are an uneducated biast fool, just like ZUMA.  </p>
<p>Zaphiro for president!!!!</p>
<p> <img src='http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Hobopok</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5809</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobopok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5809</guid>
		<description>Oh give us a break, prof ! When you start setting boundaries to press cartooning, it will be a matter of a very short time before these boundaries tighten and shrink to a very small patch, no bigger than the remaining freedom of speech. It is the grandeur of democrats to endure and defend criticisms they don&#039;t endorse. The good people of SA should be up in arms to support Zapiro. Are they now ? Or will they be sorry later ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh give us a break, prof ! When you start setting boundaries to press cartooning, it will be a matter of a very short time before these boundaries tighten and shrink to a very small patch, no bigger than the remaining freedom of speech. It is the grandeur of democrats to endure and defend criticisms they don&#8217;t endorse. The good people of SA should be up in arms to support Zapiro. Are they now ? Or will they be sorry later ?</p>
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		<title>By: nkululeko</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5467</link>
		<dc:creator>nkululeko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 13:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5467</guid>
		<description>It seems people have been very vociferous lately...
Anyway, I hope Prof can please upload the version of this cartoon that has appeared in today&#039;s Mail &amp; Guardian (12/09 - 18/09). The new one shows the thugs holding Lady Justice down, they have closed eyes and closed lips. Could this be that they are seeing no evil and speaking no evil; or blindly following and doing what JZ has in mind; or that they are following blindly and trying to show Lady Justice some respect. There is also a differentspeech bubble, replacing good ol&#039; Julius&#039;, JZ says, &quot;...But just before we start, I just want to say how much we RESPECT you!&quot; If you read the print copy of m&amp;g then you will also find some other interesting, NON-RACIST cartoons by Zapiro. I haven&#039;t found this on Mail &amp; Guardian online. I hope I didn&#039;t go too arty with my views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems people have been very vociferous lately&#8230;<br />
Anyway, I hope Prof can please upload the version of this cartoon that has appeared in today&#8217;s Mail &amp; Guardian (12/09 &#8211; 18/09). The new one shows the thugs holding Lady Justice down, they have closed eyes and closed lips. Could this be that they are seeing no evil and speaking no evil; or blindly following and doing what JZ has in mind; or that they are following blindly and trying to show Lady Justice some respect. There is also a differentspeech bubble, replacing good ol&#8217; Julius&#8217;, JZ says, &#8220;&#8230;But just before we start, I just want to say how much we RESPECT you!&#8221; If you read the print copy of m&amp;g then you will also find some other interesting, NON-RACIST cartoons by Zapiro. I haven&#8217;t found this on Mail &amp; Guardian online. I hope I didn&#8217;t go too arty with my views.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5343</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5343</guid>
		<description>PM

I would be honoured to make it onto &quot;Whose line is it anyway?&quot; (:

I fear that you will not appreciate it even if I explained myself more thoroughly, but will do so out of courtesy.

If you read whom my post  was aimed at, Siya, then you&#039;d have gone back to what Siya wrote which contained some interesting analytical points and being an analytical person myself, I immediately saw other directions in logic which could be explored. As such I have no particular attachment to anything I wrote, being merely a possible scenario, how likely or not it may be and I feel no unction to place any value judgment or probability factor to it.

In the specifics of your complaints:

Is it possible that in reality the courts dish out true justice 99% of the time but that in some cases that 1% get off because of paying off the right people or having the right connections? Is justice generally intact or does it not exist because of 1% (extreme) cases not getting justice meted out? (Try to separate what I&#039;m saying from this specific situation, viewing it generally)

Regarding the average person&#039;s view mattering to some extent:
It was said in the context of interpretation of the cartoon in a context such as a history course where you have may have the following broad categories of views: cartoonist, academics, public.

As such each of those categories of people have views regarding interpretation and though the public perception of it might be completely false in reference to the cartoonist&#039;s intentions, it still matters to some extent in making a value judgment about the cartoon and whether it successfully conveyed its message.

Oi, now that is long winded. It was just a way of looking at the cartoon in reference to Siya&#039;s comments, that&#039;s all, nothing earth shattering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PM</p>
<p>I would be honoured to make it onto &#8220;Whose line is it anyway?&#8221; (:</p>
<p>I fear that you will not appreciate it even if I explained myself more thoroughly, but will do so out of courtesy.</p>
<p>If you read whom my post  was aimed at, Siya, then you&#8217;d have gone back to what Siya wrote which contained some interesting analytical points and being an analytical person myself, I immediately saw other directions in logic which could be explored. As such I have no particular attachment to anything I wrote, being merely a possible scenario, how likely or not it may be and I feel no unction to place any value judgment or probability factor to it.</p>
<p>In the specifics of your complaints:</p>
<p>Is it possible that in reality the courts dish out true justice 99% of the time but that in some cases that 1% get off because of paying off the right people or having the right connections? Is justice generally intact or does it not exist because of 1% (extreme) cases not getting justice meted out? (Try to separate what I&#8217;m saying from this specific situation, viewing it generally)</p>
<p>Regarding the average person&#8217;s view mattering to some extent:<br />
It was said in the context of interpretation of the cartoon in a context such as a history course where you have may have the following broad categories of views: cartoonist, academics, public.</p>
<p>As such each of those categories of people have views regarding interpretation and though the public perception of it might be completely false in reference to the cartoonist&#8217;s intentions, it still matters to some extent in making a value judgment about the cartoon and whether it successfully conveyed its message.</p>
<p>Oi, now that is long winded. It was just a way of looking at the cartoon in reference to Siya&#8217;s comments, that&#8217;s all, nothing earth shattering.</p>
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		<title>By: PM</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5341</link>
		<dc:creator>PM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5341</guid>
		<description>I can assure you that Zapiro is not merely depicting an instance of justice where the &#039;powerful politicians&#039; get their way as a once off to protect their leader. &quot;Justicia&quot; is under threat and it is not as if they are wrestling her to the ground, she is already down and pinned to the ground. The justice system has taken knock after knock and this would simply be the final act. The mere fact that someone can calmy suggest that this is how &#039;justice&#039; could work in future in SA is bizzare and worrying! This depicts a threat to the end to our justice system and not a possible &#039;generally intact&#039; future one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can assure you that Zapiro is not merely depicting an instance of justice where the &#8216;powerful politicians&#8217; get their way as a once off to protect their leader. &#8220;Justicia&#8221; is under threat and it is not as if they are wrestling her to the ground, she is already down and pinned to the ground. The justice system has taken knock after knock and this would simply be the final act. The mere fact that someone can calmy suggest that this is how &#8216;justice&#8217; could work in future in SA is bizzare and worrying! This depicts a threat to the end to our justice system and not a possible &#8216;generally intact&#8217; future one!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5340</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5340</guid>
		<description>Siya - the &#039;present tense&#039; part of the cartoon lies in lady Justicia being held down helplessly on the ground. The &#039;future imperfect tense&#039; part of it lies in what JZ is going to do. Is he going to properly &#039;rape&#039; the justice system; is he just going to keep on with his &#039;procedural masturbation&#039; (I think someone called his spate of frivolous court applications in this way) to keep out of reach of the long arm of justice until he becomes President; or, is he going to zip up, be a man (and not a mouse like me), and say, &quot;Enough is enough, do your damnest, I will face my day in court and bear the consequences, if any&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siya &#8211; the &#8216;present tense&#8217; part of the cartoon lies in lady Justicia being held down helplessly on the ground. The &#8216;future imperfect tense&#8217; part of it lies in what JZ is going to do. Is he going to properly &#8216;rape&#8217; the justice system; is he just going to keep on with his &#8216;procedural masturbation&#8217; (I think someone called his spate of frivolous court applications in this way) to keep out of reach of the long arm of justice until he becomes President; or, is he going to zip up, be a man (and not a mouse like me), and say, &#8220;Enough is enough, do your damnest, I will face my day in court and bear the consequences, if any&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5339</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5339</guid>
		<description>Siya

Sane views and what I expressed above is at the end a mere academic exercise, but as you say the core focus is on &quot;shocking&quot; us into seriously looking at what is happening and asking questions about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siya</p>
<p>Sane views and what I expressed above is at the end a mere academic exercise, but as you say the core focus is on &#8220;shocking&#8221; us into seriously looking at what is happening and asking questions about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Siya</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-zuma-zapiro-and-that-cartoon/#comment-5333</link>
		<dc:creator>Siya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=658#comment-5333</guid>
		<description>Z,

An interesting interpretation. I notice that PM is not amused by it. But I think your interpretation has a potential. Seeing the cartoon as depicting some future scenario born of the current political attempts to interfere with the work of the judiciary is reassuring, I must say. That interpretation says we are not there yet but could be/will be. The problem is that there seems to be some unanimity among current affairs following South Africans – including most participants on this blog, and myself- that Zapiro is depicting the present and not the future. That is why I felt that by depicting lady justice helplessly on the ground Zapiro is already in that possible future (according to your interpretation) and not in the present. I guess we are misreading the cartoon. 

That was just by way of responding. Now technicalities on the side, in the end what is important is that Zapiro is trying to alert us in a powerful way to the enormity of the threat on our judiciary, and even more alarming, to the source of that threat. You, me and PM and the rest of the bloggers, should hope that the threat never becomes a reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z,</p>
<p>An interesting interpretation. I notice that PM is not amused by it. But I think your interpretation has a potential. Seeing the cartoon as depicting some future scenario born of the current political attempts to interfere with the work of the judiciary is reassuring, I must say. That interpretation says we are not there yet but could be/will be. The problem is that there seems to be some unanimity among current affairs following South Africans – including most participants on this blog, and myself- that Zapiro is depicting the present and not the future. That is why I felt that by depicting lady justice helplessly on the ground Zapiro is already in that possible future (according to your interpretation) and not in the present. I guess we are misreading the cartoon. </p>
<p>That was just by way of responding. Now technicalities on the side, in the end what is important is that Zapiro is trying to alert us in a powerful way to the enormity of the threat on our judiciary, and even more alarming, to the source of that threat. You, me and PM and the rest of the bloggers, should hope that the threat never becomes a reality.</p>
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