The problem with policy changes and minor fine tuning in various government associated bodies (even independant and impartial ones) is that it always starts with tweaking here and there and a few years later its something totally different. Once these complaints have been investigated what should be done? To what extent is this power going to affect the SAPS and the public? Those are key questions when looking at the power of our investigatory and regulatory bodies.
I’d also like to point out that the 2nd half of my post was a more general discussion. I’m glad Sne read it as such. I did not mean to say a manifesto is a government paper, but if one thinks about it it would seem that the majority party’s manifestoes should somehow become govrnment documents unless they were meant to be hollow promises. And I’d hate to predict what the DA might or might not do. that’s just far too much work.

The Independent Complaints Directorate (for investigating complaints against the police) has been in existence since 1997. The proposal is not to erect such a body, but to improve its efficiency and strengthen public confidence that complaints are taken seriously while not demoralising the police service as a whole.

The flaws in the current system have been evident for some time: for an external perspective on the South African situation as at 2003, see
http://www.justiceinitiative.org/activities/ncjr/police/sa_police

An indication of the ICD’s own view of its abilities and efficiency (as presently structured and resourced) can be gleaned from p.47 of its Annual Report 2007/2008 available for download from its website:- http://www.icd.gov.za/documents/index.html

The latest policy proposal (such as it is) was ventilated at the ANC election manifesto policy conference which concluded its work on Sunday; the manifesto will be published on 10 January. It is unlikely much more flesh will be put on the bones in such a document.

There is no call for people to be agitated about a political party initiating discussion for the purposes of formulating its election manifesto. A manifesto is not a government blue paper, still less a white paper.

It is far from obvious that the DA would be hostile to proposals for revamping the IDC, see (dating from 28 September 2008) http://www.da.org.za/?p=531

Thank you… That is exactly what the ANC government is doing! The ANC government is basically sneaking laws past the unsuspecting public!

The overwhelming majority has been abused by the ruling party and they may start betraying the principles that 1st attraced many of the voters.If we think careful we would see that the ANC Govt seems to ensure that it passes most, if not all, legislation in its best interests and not those of South Africans. That is a disturbing trend. Another thing that is odd is that there is usually a limited amount of time for the public to contribute to Bills etc. If you contend that there is ample time then parliament should ensure people know about this and how to make use of this opportunity. I feel that very few people have the chance to contribute and that’s a loss to our democratic process. Eg. in KZN they seem to have most of those public sessions where the public is invited to comment in Empangeni. A far cry from the places where you’d find more people. In such a province one would think they’d have 3 rounds to comment in the North coast, South coast and either DBN or PMB.

You need to grasp the distinction between what is permissible in robust debate (as when characterising the quality of views expressed) and personal insinuations of bad faith.

For you to assert I have been trying to fool people is utterly unacceptable, and I condemned it as “intemperate” long ago.

I, on the other had, have denounced a paranoid (pardon my previous typo, highlighted in your quotation) hermeneutic adopted by you, have described your interventions as variously hysterical and preposterous, and observed that your previous posts have been lacking in utility.

You might care to ponder on the difference between our approaches to invective.

Check your posts below directed to me;

“It has arisen again in Sne’s hysterical opposition to a policy proposal by the ANC which, on any sane and reasoned examination, is unexceptionable as it stands…”

“These questions reside at the useful end of the spectrum of debate. Sne’s recent effusions occupy the other end.”

“And you have ratcheted up the paranoia quotient in your subsequent posts…”

“Sne’s claimed justification for his “communist state” comment offers a woefully inadequate and even partanoid hermeneutic for assessing ANC policy proposals…”

“…your preposterous comment…”
_________________________________________

And yet you have the audacity to demand that I withdraw my opinion! Based on the above, I rather you do not discuss my issues any further!

You will have to withdraw your preposterous comment that i was “trying to fool people” before I can discuss your issues any further.

Let me remind you what you directed at me earlier:-

// Dec 2, 2008 @3:08 pm

“So dont try to fool people here by telling us that these were merely policy proposals”

(a) Exactly my point! Things start as sketchy proposals in the ANC government and then the next time you meet them will be in the statute books as the Acts of Parliament! There is no proper consultation and I doubt even a proper reasearch was carried out because had that been the case they would have hurried in the defence of the proposals as they would have been anticipating adverse reactions!

(b) This submission about Zuma not taking a leading role is as poor as saying that Mbeki cannot be blamed for the Health Department because it was run by Manto Tshabalala-Msimang! The fact of the matter is that Zuma is the current president of the ANC and it does not take rocket scientists to know that the ANC is a party with very centralised power! The top structure makes the decisions which must be carried out by all others without questions! Zuma has all the powers in the ANC party and if he is not exercising those powers then it highlights him as a weak ruler who could not silence his croonies when they were threatening to tun the country into an ungovernable chaos!

(c) This change is but one of those changes proposed by Zuma for his Presidency next year! I refer you back to (b) above!

(d) The proposal does not actually promote investigation into the police. It merely moves this already existing function away from, at least initially, the reach of the NPA which is Constitutionally mandated to carry out such a function and prosecute the perpetraitors!

You keep on refering to Canada as international best practice… where did you get this because the site you referred me to merely explains the proposals and does not compare them to other comparable jurisdictions where it has achieved major success or may I was too lazy or busy to read that part!

Well, pertaining to the example of the DSO, what can I say; Experience is a very good teacher.

The Scorpions may be dead and burried but the lessons they have left behind about the dangers of having a party which is (or now was?) guaranteed of winning the elections will always be in the minds of people like me who felt powerless when the ANC NEC decided to scrap the Scorpions…

Lastly, you are welcome to post here the proposals of the ANC so that we can get them from a realiable source or even provide the link thereto. Surely that should not be too hard given the fact that they have been discussed already and were in the possession of the Cape Times!