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	<title>Comments on: Reasons please</title>
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	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Mike Atkins</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13164</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Atkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 10:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13164</guid>
		<description>See that Mr Zuma has joined Mathews Phosa in lying about the situation:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&amp;click_id=13&amp;art_id=nw20090407113853935C926953

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&amp;click_id=13&amp;art_id=nw20090406142046419C560684</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See that Mr Zuma has joined Mathews Phosa in lying about the situation:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=nw20090407113853935C926953" rel="nofollow">http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=nw20090407113853935C926953</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=nw20090406142046419C560684" rel="nofollow">http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=nw20090406142046419C560684</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Atkins</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13138</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Atkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13138</guid>
		<description>Prof, let&#039;s have a fresh discussion around the legal merits and procedures for a Review of the NPA decision.

In my view the NDPP is legally bound to remain within the confines of the NPA Act and the Prosecution Policy - that is, he is empowered only by the terms of those documents in making the decision that he has made.

My reading is that he did not attempt to relate his decision to any of the empowering provisions.  He argued case law, but in a context where this could not be scrutinised - the appropriate forum for those considerations would be the application for a stay of prosecution.

There is something in us that finds it difficult to accept that somebody could stand there and (effectively) lie to the nation.  But he did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof, let&#8217;s have a fresh discussion around the legal merits and procedures for a Review of the NPA decision.</p>
<p>In my view the NDPP is legally bound to remain within the confines of the NPA Act and the Prosecution Policy &#8211; that is, he is empowered only by the terms of those documents in making the decision that he has made.</p>
<p>My reading is that he did not attempt to relate his decision to any of the empowering provisions.  He argued case law, but in a context where this could not be scrutinised &#8211; the appropriate forum for those considerations would be the application for a stay of prosecution.</p>
<p>There is something in us that finds it difficult to accept that somebody could stand there and (effectively) lie to the nation.  But he did.</p>
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		<title>By: ozoneblue</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13133</link>
		<dc:creator>ozoneblue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13133</guid>
		<description>And now the NPA may lay charges against Ngcuka and McCarty. 

Ngcuka being credited with the creation of  COPE. I want to take a bet that  the way that PdV and his beloved media is going to spin that is that the NPA is now being abused to persecute the ANC&#039;s political enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now the NPA may lay charges against Ngcuka and McCarty. </p>
<p>Ngcuka being credited with the creation of  COPE. I want to take a bet that  the way that PdV and his beloved media is going to spin that is that the NPA is now being abused to persecute the ANC&#8217;s political enemies.</p>
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		<title>By: ozoneblue</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13132</link>
		<dc:creator>ozoneblue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13132</guid>
		<description>MFB  @ 8:59 am  

&quot;Neoliberalism has rolled to victory under the red banner&quot;

I certainly hope that is not going to be the case. Apparently &quot;the markets&quot; have not moved much so this may not  a good sign at all. I imagine we are heading for friction again between SACP, COSATU and the ANC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MFB  @ 8:59 am  </p>
<p>&#8220;Neoliberalism has rolled to victory under the red banner&#8221;</p>
<p>I certainly hope that is not going to be the case. Apparently &#8220;the markets&#8221; have not moved much so this may not  a good sign at all. I imagine we are heading for friction again between SACP, COSATU and the ANC.</p>
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		<title>By: MFB</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13126</link>
		<dc:creator>MFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13126</guid>
		<description>Look, the image is not important. The reality is. The reality is that our government is now immeasurably more corrupt than it was five years ago. We cannot trust the judges, we cannot trust their courts, we cannot trust the law enforcement officers. We have doctors who lie to get corrupt businessmen off the hook because they have the right political connections, and cabinet ministers who back up the doctors. 

Civil society? Virtually all the so-called civil society organisations are in the bag with Zuma. They, like Zuma, are bankrolled by big business. So is the press. Neoliberalism has rolled to victory under the red banner (note how, for instance, Hogan&#039;s murderous cheeseparing of the health-care budget has been greeted with screams of joy by the media).

This is the end of the campaign over the last fifteen years to destroy the 1994 settlement, and it has been successful partly because so much money was involved (and hence so many people were compromised) and partly because so many people turned out not to have the convictions they professed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, the image is not important. The reality is. The reality is that our government is now immeasurably more corrupt than it was five years ago. We cannot trust the judges, we cannot trust their courts, we cannot trust the law enforcement officers. We have doctors who lie to get corrupt businessmen off the hook because they have the right political connections, and cabinet ministers who back up the doctors. </p>
<p>Civil society? Virtually all the so-called civil society organisations are in the bag with Zuma. They, like Zuma, are bankrolled by big business. So is the press. Neoliberalism has rolled to victory under the red banner (note how, for instance, Hogan&#8217;s murderous cheeseparing of the health-care budget has been greeted with screams of joy by the media).</p>
<p>This is the end of the campaign over the last fifteen years to destroy the 1994 settlement, and it has been successful partly because so much money was involved (and hence so many people were compromised) and partly because so many people turned out not to have the convictions they professed.</p>
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		<title>By: Thembalabantubonke</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13118</link>
		<dc:creator>Thembalabantubonke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 06:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13118</guid>
		<description>I am no legal expert and hence I may make glaring errors in my analysis of the Zuma case. According to Mpshe “The NPA is thus confident that its decision is based on information that was intercepted legally and obtained legally by the NPA.” This was said after Mpshe explained how they got about the intelligence. I have therefore no problem with how the NPA obtained confirmation of the tapes they listened to. I do, however have a problem with how Zuma and his legal team obtained such information.
Jacob Zuma is a civilian and is not in the employ of the state. He is not a member of NICOC, and even if he were, such information as it may fall into his hands cannot be used for personal gain, but can only be used to protect the state.
It is therefore clear that State resources were utilised for the benefit of a Civilian. This immediately creates an issue of subversion.
&quot;&#039;Subversion&#039; means any activity intended to destroy or undermine the constitutionally established system of government in the Republic of South Africa.”
This goes beyond Subversion, to the very fraud that Jacob Zuma is charged with. How? Well, an employee of the National Intelligence Agency (NIA) not only collated information pertaining to the trial of Jacob Zuma, but disseminated such information to a civilian. Even worse is that these recordings even took place.
Consider that the claims that Jacob Zuma was a victim of a political conspiracy first emerged in 2005. Indeed, President Mbeki suggested a commission of inquiry to test the veracity of such claims and Cosatu and SACP proposed a political solution to what they considered a political problem (http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Zuma/0,,2-7-1840_1763574,00.html). So, by late 2007, it would be hard to argue that someone in the intelligence agency was not aware of claims of political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma. That the NIA continues with its surviallance of the head DSO. Yet, Mpshe claims “The National Intelligence Agency (NIA) confirmed to the NPA that it indeed had legally obtained recordings of many of the same conversations which were obtained during the course of its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the production and leaking of the Browse Mole report.” It would require incredible lack of foresite and intelligence to believe that this piece of information simply landed on the laps of the NIA by co-incidence.
The NIA is not new to illegal surviallance with Billy Masetla suspended by the Intelligence Minister also in 2005 when he was accused of illegally spying on Saki Macozoma and others (http://www.mg.co.za/article/2005-12-15-spywar-emails-what-they-really-say). So, it was no secret by 2007 that there were those who believed the existence of a political conspiracy against Zuma. It is therefore hogwash that the NIA were simply doing intelligence on matters relating to the Browse Mole Report, when they knew for 2.5 years of the players implicated in this “political conspiracy.” It is therefore clear that the intelligence gathering on the NIA was designed solely to find the smoking gun.
It seems Zuma and his legal team have always had this information and did not know how to best use it. With the devastating loss in the Supreme Court of Appeals and the impending elections, it was clear that the ANC and the Zuma team needed to up the anti. They knew that such information would be inadmissible in a court of law, but figured with everything that has happened, they had no choice but to go for broke. They had to however convince the NPA that such information was gathered legally, despite the obvious and the best excuse was the Brose Mole Report, whose theme, incidentally is exactly the “political conspiracy” against Zuma.
Perhaps Mphse is aware of this, but found a way out of pickle or predicament. However, he said very little about any actions to be taken against the NIA agents who used state resources, which they then handed to a civillian with no security clearance.
What is even more concerning is that the NPA would find nothing wrong with the NIA investigating someone and then publishing information they deem irrelavant to their investigation on the internet.
Finally, how is talk of a political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma not part of the Browse Mole Report? The central theme of the Browse Mole Report is the political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma. The NIA happens to find information that proves this, and we are made to believe that this information does not form part of their investigation and can therefore be selectively declassified?
I am not sure what is worse; the fact that the NIA had the temerity to make such a lie, or that Mpshe was dumb enough to believe it. What is however clear is that our justice system has been repoeatedly raped and in addition to Malema, Ndimande and Vavi holding her down, Mpshe is busy kissing her. Shame Shame Shame!!!
Consider that Judge Hlophe was claimed to have known the workings of the Constutitional Court, when he approached Judge Nkabinde. Perhaps the same NIA agent that taped McCarthy/Ngcuka also taped the Constitutional Court. One wonders what part of South Africa Zuma&#039;s spies do not have access to.
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2343526,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am no legal expert and hence I may make glaring errors in my analysis of the Zuma case. According to Mpshe “The NPA is thus confident that its decision is based on information that was intercepted legally and obtained legally by the NPA.” This was said after Mpshe explained how they got about the intelligence. I have therefore no problem with how the NPA obtained confirmation of the tapes they listened to. I do, however have a problem with how Zuma and his legal team obtained such information.<br />
Jacob Zuma is a civilian and is not in the employ of the state. He is not a member of NICOC, and even if he were, such information as it may fall into his hands cannot be used for personal gain, but can only be used to protect the state.<br />
It is therefore clear that State resources were utilised for the benefit of a Civilian. This immediately creates an issue of subversion.<br />
&#8220;&#8216;Subversion&#8217; means any activity intended to destroy or undermine the constitutionally established system of government in the Republic of South Africa.”<br />
This goes beyond Subversion, to the very fraud that Jacob Zuma is charged with. How? Well, an employee of the National Intelligence Agency (NIA) not only collated information pertaining to the trial of Jacob Zuma, but disseminated such information to a civilian. Even worse is that these recordings even took place.<br />
Consider that the claims that Jacob Zuma was a victim of a political conspiracy first emerged in 2005. Indeed, President Mbeki suggested a commission of inquiry to test the veracity of such claims and Cosatu and SACP proposed a political solution to what they considered a political problem (<a href="http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Zuma/0,,2-7-1840_1763574,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Zuma/0,,2-7-1840_1763574,00.html</a>). So, by late 2007, it would be hard to argue that someone in the intelligence agency was not aware of claims of political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma. That the NIA continues with its surviallance of the head DSO. Yet, Mpshe claims “The National Intelligence Agency (NIA) confirmed to the NPA that it indeed had legally obtained recordings of many of the same conversations which were obtained during the course of its investigation into the circumstances surrounding the production and leaking of the Browse Mole report.” It would require incredible lack of foresite and intelligence to believe that this piece of information simply landed on the laps of the NIA by co-incidence.<br />
The NIA is not new to illegal surviallance with Billy Masetla suspended by the Intelligence Minister also in 2005 when he was accused of illegally spying on Saki Macozoma and others (<a href="http://www.mg.co.za/article/2005-12-15-spywar-emails-what-they-really-say" rel="nofollow">http://www.mg.co.za/article/2005-12-15-spywar-emails-what-they-really-say</a>). So, it was no secret by 2007 that there were those who believed the existence of a political conspiracy against Zuma. It is therefore hogwash that the NIA were simply doing intelligence on matters relating to the Browse Mole Report, when they knew for 2.5 years of the players implicated in this “political conspiracy.” It is therefore clear that the intelligence gathering on the NIA was designed solely to find the smoking gun.<br />
It seems Zuma and his legal team have always had this information and did not know how to best use it. With the devastating loss in the Supreme Court of Appeals and the impending elections, it was clear that the ANC and the Zuma team needed to up the anti. They knew that such information would be inadmissible in a court of law, but figured with everything that has happened, they had no choice but to go for broke. They had to however convince the NPA that such information was gathered legally, despite the obvious and the best excuse was the Brose Mole Report, whose theme, incidentally is exactly the “political conspiracy” against Zuma.<br />
Perhaps Mphse is aware of this, but found a way out of pickle or predicament. However, he said very little about any actions to be taken against the NIA agents who used state resources, which they then handed to a civillian with no security clearance.<br />
What is even more concerning is that the NPA would find nothing wrong with the NIA investigating someone and then publishing information they deem irrelavant to their investigation on the internet.<br />
Finally, how is talk of a political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma not part of the Browse Mole Report? The central theme of the Browse Mole Report is the political conspiracy against Jacob Zuma. The NIA happens to find information that proves this, and we are made to believe that this information does not form part of their investigation and can therefore be selectively declassified?<br />
I am not sure what is worse; the fact that the NIA had the temerity to make such a lie, or that Mpshe was dumb enough to believe it. What is however clear is that our justice system has been repoeatedly raped and in addition to Malema, Ndimande and Vavi holding her down, Mpshe is busy kissing her. Shame Shame Shame!!!<br />
Consider that Judge Hlophe was claimed to have known the workings of the Constutitional Court, when he approached Judge Nkabinde. Perhaps the same NIA agent that taped McCarthy/Ngcuka also taped the Constitutional Court. One wonders what part of South Africa Zuma&#8217;s spies do not have access to.<br />
<a href="http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2343526,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2343526,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Big Slipper</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13115</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Slipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13115</guid>
		<description>Ozone, under Vusi Pikoli the Scorpions &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; the best thing to happen to SA - they were extremely effective in chasing down organised crime, as evidenced by the statistical data available to us. This is why it seems Pikoli was dismissed on such flimsy grounds - I doubt he would have backed down on the Zuma charges.

The fact that McCarthy or whomever else may have abused process (it all seems a bit murky, given that we do not have the contents of the tapes in their entirety, but it does seem incriminating from what we have) does not change the fact that the NPA under Pikoli was establishing for itself a fearsome reputation among those on the dubious side of the law - a lot of ANC cadres included.  They had extremely skilled and competent people working there, and had a phenomenal conviction rate.

They were established by the ANC, not inherited from Apartheid. It was only when they started investigating things like Travelgate and the Arms Deal that they ANC suddenly realised that they may have bitten off more than they could chew - especially once an independent and strong willed NDPP was appointed.

Unfortunately, with Pikoli fired for ridiculous reasons (and contrary to the &quot;independent&quot; commission of inquiry), and the acting NDPP suddenly dropping the charges with this miraculous new evidence (which has clearly been around for a while), whatever credibility the NPA had just got blasted away - purely because it looks like Mpshe is acting at the behest of Luthuli House, which is in stark contrast to the real NDPP.

I do agree with you though - this whole Arms Deal stinks to high Heaven, and should be blown wide open. But I disagree - Zuma is not a &quot;naughty child&quot; - he is about to become president of one of the most important countries in Africa, and should be expected to account for his role in this scandal, along with Mbeki, Thint, Shaik, and whoever else is involved. If there is evidence that McCarthy abused process, he should be prosecuted fully too. But Zuma is important for more than just the fact than he looks somewhat guilty - people judge our country based on the calibre of our leadership, and he&#039;s right at the top of that pile, thanks to the SACP and Cosatu. It is impossible to project a positive image of SA now - read the international news reports on the subject, and judge for yourself how the rest of the world views us after today. But then again, China still like us, so I suppose the rest of the world can go jump huh?

Still, we need this Arms Deal dealt with properly, like you say Ozone. Unfortunately, under a Zuma presidency, it&#039;s never going to happen - get used to the idea, because this is the man that SA will blindly vote into power come election day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ozone, under Vusi Pikoli the Scorpions <i>were</i> the best thing to happen to SA &#8211; they were extremely effective in chasing down organised crime, as evidenced by the statistical data available to us. This is why it seems Pikoli was dismissed on such flimsy grounds &#8211; I doubt he would have backed down on the Zuma charges.</p>
<p>The fact that McCarthy or whomever else may have abused process (it all seems a bit murky, given that we do not have the contents of the tapes in their entirety, but it does seem incriminating from what we have) does not change the fact that the NPA under Pikoli was establishing for itself a fearsome reputation among those on the dubious side of the law &#8211; a lot of ANC cadres included.  They had extremely skilled and competent people working there, and had a phenomenal conviction rate.</p>
<p>They were established by the ANC, not inherited from Apartheid. It was only when they started investigating things like Travelgate and the Arms Deal that they ANC suddenly realised that they may have bitten off more than they could chew &#8211; especially once an independent and strong willed NDPP was appointed.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, with Pikoli fired for ridiculous reasons (and contrary to the &#8220;independent&#8221; commission of inquiry), and the acting NDPP suddenly dropping the charges with this miraculous new evidence (which has clearly been around for a while), whatever credibility the NPA had just got blasted away &#8211; purely because it looks like Mpshe is acting at the behest of Luthuli House, which is in stark contrast to the real NDPP.</p>
<p>I do agree with you though &#8211; this whole Arms Deal stinks to high Heaven, and should be blown wide open. But I disagree &#8211; Zuma is not a &#8220;naughty child&#8221; &#8211; he is about to become president of one of the most important countries in Africa, and should be expected to account for his role in this scandal, along with Mbeki, Thint, Shaik, and whoever else is involved. If there is evidence that McCarthy abused process, he should be prosecuted fully too. But Zuma is important for more than just the fact than he looks somewhat guilty &#8211; people judge our country based on the calibre of our leadership, and he&#8217;s right at the top of that pile, thanks to the SACP and Cosatu. It is impossible to project a positive image of SA now &#8211; read the international news reports on the subject, and judge for yourself how the rest of the world views us after today. But then again, China still like us, so I suppose the rest of the world can go jump huh?</p>
<p>Still, we need this Arms Deal dealt with properly, like you say Ozone. Unfortunately, under a Zuma presidency, it&#8217;s never going to happen &#8211; get used to the idea, because this is the man that SA will blindly vote into power come election day.</p>
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		<title>By: ozoneblue</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13114</link>
		<dc:creator>ozoneblue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13114</guid>
		<description>The Big Slipper @ 6:29 pm  

&quot;This is a complete mockery of justice, and has left the NPA, the NIA, the former administration and the future administration with little more than shreds of stained credibility.&quot;

And to think just a few days ago you and the &#039;constitutional expert&quot; was trying to convince us all that the Scorpions were the best thing to happen to South Africa since peanut butter sandwiches. Now it turns out they were indeed political a political weapon, abusing our trust, our young democracy and the constitution to defend a neocolonialist political dispensation, inherited from the &quot;cold war&quot; days of Apartheid and  that has left the a majority of our people behind in poverty and despair.

I certainly hope this is not the end of this. Like Piet Mulder I want to know who was behind Ngcuka and McCarthy ? Who were those &quot;elements of Apartheid security structures&quot; and &quot;foreign intelligence agencies&quot; working with the Scorpions ?  

I want the entire arms-deal exposed. What was the role of the Tony Blairs, the BAEs and the Mbekis. Unlike PdV I&#039;m not satisfied with the fall guy - some naughty child who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar while the big chiefs were carrying off the crown jewels, it should be escalated into an international incident that would  shake our planet&#039;s moral consciousness to the core. 

Then what has transpired during the unfortunate past 10 years  in South Africa will certainly not have been in vain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Big Slipper @ 6:29 pm  </p>
<p>&#8220;This is a complete mockery of justice, and has left the NPA, the NIA, the former administration and the future administration with little more than shreds of stained credibility.&#8221;</p>
<p>And to think just a few days ago you and the &#8216;constitutional expert&#8221; was trying to convince us all that the Scorpions were the best thing to happen to South Africa since peanut butter sandwiches. Now it turns out they were indeed political a political weapon, abusing our trust, our young democracy and the constitution to defend a neocolonialist political dispensation, inherited from the &#8220;cold war&#8221; days of Apartheid and  that has left the a majority of our people behind in poverty and despair.</p>
<p>I certainly hope this is not the end of this. Like Piet Mulder I want to know who was behind Ngcuka and McCarthy ? Who were those &#8220;elements of Apartheid security structures&#8221; and &#8220;foreign intelligence agencies&#8221; working with the Scorpions ?  </p>
<p>I want the entire arms-deal exposed. What was the role of the Tony Blairs, the BAEs and the Mbekis. Unlike PdV I&#8217;m not satisfied with the fall guy &#8211; some naughty child who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar while the big chiefs were carrying off the crown jewels, it should be escalated into an international incident that would  shake our planet&#8217;s moral consciousness to the core. </p>
<p>Then what has transpired during the unfortunate past 10 years  in South Africa will certainly not have been in vain.</p>
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		<title>By: Spuy</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13113</link>
		<dc:creator>Spuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13113</guid>
		<description>Another thing: I ve actually realised that there is a loose and uninformed usage of a term &quot;merits&quot; of a case. Most actually use this term ONLY as it relates to the SUBSTANTIVE part, while, in fact, when we talk of a merits or de-merits for that matter, we refer to the case in toto, i.e Processess of Procedure AND substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing: I ve actually realised that there is a loose and uninformed usage of a term &#8220;merits&#8221; of a case. Most actually use this term ONLY as it relates to the SUBSTANTIVE part, while, in fact, when we talk of a merits or de-merits for that matter, we refer to the case in toto, i.e Processess of Procedure AND substance.</p>
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		<title>By: Spuy</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/reasons-please/#comment-13112</link>
		<dc:creator>Spuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=933#comment-13112</guid>
		<description>After we are all agreed that we ve done justice with regards to interogating and disecting this decision of the NDPP and his reasons, we must objectively look at the lessons that can be drawn from this mess going forward, especially how to make sure that the NPA never ever finds itself in such disrepute cos to me that is a fundamental question. I mean, we must remember or know - those who dont, that JUSTICE does not begin in court, it actually begins from the initial process e.g investigations, fairness in the processess, non-tampering with those, etc and ultimately a court appearance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After we are all agreed that we ve done justice with regards to interogating and disecting this decision of the NDPP and his reasons, we must objectively look at the lessons that can be drawn from this mess going forward, especially how to make sure that the NPA never ever finds itself in such disrepute cos to me that is a fundamental question. I mean, we must remember or know &#8211; those who dont, that JUSTICE does not begin in court, it actually begins from the initial process e.g investigations, fairness in the processess, non-tampering with those, etc and ultimately a court appearance.</p>
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