ETV news reports that lawyers for Jackie Selebi is to approach Menzi Simelane, National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP) in order to have his trial stopped. They report that Selebi will argue that there was a conspiracy against him and that the prosecution was tainted by prosecutorial misconduct.
Details are still sketchy, but the initial legal question is clearly whether Simelane has the power to stop the trial half way through the prosecution. Section 179(5)(d) of the Constitution allows the NDPP to drop charges against an accused, but only when this is allowed in terms of the prosecution policy agreed to between the NDPP and the Minister of Justice. I might be missing something, but section 179(5)(d) of the Constitution does not seem to allow the NDPP to stop a trial already in progress.
However, the prosecutor (not the NDPP) is empowered to stop the trial after a plea has already been entered, but only in very limited circumstances. The prosecution policy states as follows:
Criminal proceedings may sometimes be stopped after a plea has already been entered. This would normally only occur when it becomes clear during the course of the trial that it would be impossible for the State to prove its case or where other exceptional circumstances have arisen which make the continuation of the prosecution undesirable.
If a prosecution is stopped, an accused will be acquitted and may not be charged again on the same set of facts. A prosecutor may therefore not stop a prosecution, unless the Director of Public Prosecutions or his or her delegate has consented thereto. Such decisions should therefore be made with circumspection.
The prosecutor may therefore stop the case in “exceptional circumstances”. One imagines this is rather unlikely as prosecutors are usually prosecuting a case because they think it is winnable. A prosecutor is also unlikely to agree that there was prosecutorial misconduct in a case run by him or her and would – correctly, in my view – defer to the judge on whether there was any misconduct and if there was, whether it fundamentally affected the fairness of the trial.
However, section 179(5)(c) states that the NDPP “may intervene in the prosecution process when policy directives are not complied with”. If Simelane thus wants to stop the Selebi trail he will have to rely on this section and such a move will have to be based on evidence that the prosecuting policy was flouted. The relevant section of the prosecution policy states that:
prosecutors should present the facts of a case to a court fairly. They should disclose information favourable to the defence (even though it may be adverse to the prosecution case) and, where necessary, assist in putting the version of an un-represented accused before court.
A credible submission by Selebi’s lawyers will have to provide hard evidence that demonstrates prosecutorial misconduct. A fabrication of evidence by prosecutors will obviously constitute such misconduct. As the Supreme Court of Appeal has made clear evidence that a prosecution was brought for an ulterior purpose would not constitute such conduct as long as the prosecutor always had the intention to secure a conviction.
Even then, given the fact that the trial is already underway and given the question mark hanging over Simelane’s credibility and independence, it would be advisable for Simelane not to intervene in this case. If evidence of misconduct exist, the honest option would be to put this before the court and to argue that it would be impossible for Selebi to get a fair trial. It is always better in such cases for a court – and not for a tainted political appointee – to make a decision about the ability of Selebi to get a fair trial. That way the credibility of the criminal justice system would not be placed under undue stress.
If the ETV repot is correct, it would represent Simelane with his first real test. Will he act in the interest of justice with an eye towards securing the credibility of the NPA and the criminal justice system or will other factors persuade him to intervene in this matter? Only time will tell.
We already know that the moment the ‘struggle heroes’ talk to the NDPP; something will be cooked up to drop the charges.
Menzi appears to be worse than Mpshe.
Selebi is a free man. (that’s what this is going to boil down to.) It’s called democracy, by Zuma.
The whole matter depends on whether South Africa is more than a just a nominal constitutional democracy. These days South Africa appears to me to be a constitutional democracy in name only.
I know its very dangerous to rely on press reports about a court case. All I have about the Selibi case are the press reports, but my impression is that on the merits things are not going Selibi’s way. Perhaps he realises that he will have to seek another way out.
Prof, the way the DA AND other opposition parties talk of Simelane being “tainted” and advices being proferred to him to leave this matter to the courts, were I him I would let Selebi off the hook just for the measure of it and to show that I have a backbone and wont bow to not-so-veiled and subtle intimidation.May be I am naive and your article is perhaps encouraging Simelane to let Selebi off the hook, as surely Simelane is reading your blog and it would be foolhardy for him to listen to people who always criticise him.
Mdu, if i was Simel;ane I would have done the right thing and would not have been forced into a reactive course of action. But that is just me. He might react to DA criticism by following the opposite route but that would make him, in effect, a prisoner of the DA view as he would not be following his own mind but merely reaction to the DA. That would give DA far too much power, I think. But maybe I have read too much Steve Biko.
In fact were I Mr Simelane , I would give my premature critics who regard me as a political appointee something to be mature about, id est concrete evidence for them to criticise me, I would let Jackie Selebi off finish and klaar, may be that way they would stop whining about my suitability or lack thereof to occupy NDDP position for then they would have their evidence about my merits or lack thereof.
Prof, I infact agree with your stance I just am offended by people prejudging another person before concrete evidence as to whether he really cannnot discharge his mandate as NDPP, otherwise he should not interfere.
Mdu is right.
From ANC’s point of view, the DA’s opposition to any given course of action is positively correlated with the desirability of that course. The converse also applies.
One day, the stupid DA may wake up the the fact that the best way to make the govt do X is to oppose X vociferously. (In much the same way reverse psychology sometimes works with a naughty child.)
There’s something f…ing sick about our attitude to women and child abuse.
“Three years ago, Hermann was convicted of molesting the then six-year-old girl over 14 months from 2003 to 2004.
“He was sentenced to four years in prison, but appealed, and two days ago the Western Cape High Court substituted a R10 000 fine.”
Some serious transformation is needed in our judiciary!
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100226072438871C396103
I agree. The judgement is not on SAFLII yet, but I would like to read what the judges said. I is sad that there are judges who fail to appreciate the consequences of child abuse. I am’and has always been apposed to capital punishment, but for a child molester I’m prepared to make an exception.
So, Mdu, your basic point of departure is that Menzi Simelane has zero integrity….
Chris says:
February 26, 2010 at 10:53 am
It’s hard to accept that the courts are the ultimate guardians of our children!
So far, Menzi Simelane has demonstrated that he doesn’t have the capacity to appreciate the difference between right and wrong and to act in accordance with that appreciation.
Yes, and this is not an isolated incident. Look at this: http://www.saflii.org.za/za/cases/ZAKZPHC/2010/3.html
Chris says:
February 26, 2010 at 11:24 am
This is outrageous!
WTF?
“The appellant in this matter was charged with one count of rape, alleged to have been committed on diverse occasions during 2000. It was alleged that he raped his biological daughter, N C N, aged 13 at the time, in their home at Msinga reserve.
#
“I would accordingly uphold the appeal and set aside the conviction on a charge of rape and substitute it with a conviction of the crime of incest. .
#
“I would also uphold the appeal against sentence and set aside the sentence of life imprisonment and substitute it with a sentence of 8 years’ imprisonment, 2 years of which is suspended for a period of 5 years on condition that the appellant is not convicted of rape or of the crime of incest”
Anything I say now may be deemed to be contempt of the court.
As appropriate as that may be, I will rather refrain.
@ Maggs
Board members can be sometimes held personally liable for their failure to perform their responsibilities, can’t we have the same for judges.
Gwebecimele, I wish it was so, but I am afraid it is not. The only remedy against incompetent judgement is appeal to or review by higher courts. It is said.
Independence of the judiciary, like democracy, has its goods and bads. It is generally good, but can also produce undesirable results, which we have to learn to leave with or devise a better system.
Ours country is a develping one in several respects. I’m going to touch on just two of them: for one thing, if this morning’s interview on SAFM is to be believed, we cannot expect an especially sophisticated world cup. And for a second, we cannot even boast sophisticated crooks.
It seems we cannot expect a tournament that will rival the standards set by European countries – and that necessarily means we will not meet far-eastern standards as I’m sure anyone who saw the 2002 edition of the World Cup will agree. And in the parlance of mid-1990′s skater culture: “That just sucks.” But that sad state of affairs is perfectly in keeping with the crass nature of our society’s dirtballs. Their is just nothing clever about what appears to be the litigation strategy for deeply questionable public figures: play the victim. Make representations to a weak-kneed, slack-jawed, rubber-stamping yes-man of an NDPP – who will naturally drop the case. Then frustate the ensuing review application. One does not need to go to crook school (let alone law school) to get the brain around that one.
So the central point here is this: by and large, things just aren’t done very well in South Africa. From hosting soccer cups to crooks finding ways to get out of court, greatness appears to be elusive.
http://therichmarksentinel.com/rs_articles_contributors.asp?conid=47&recid=1385
ANC must stop playing right into the hands of its critics.
Gwebecimele says:
February 26, 2010 at 13:29 pm
This is not the first time that it has been reported that our judges deem it ok for people to rape their own children – I have not made up my mind yet as to which, between the judgements and the rapes, is the more perverted.
Gwebecimele says:
February 26, 2010 at 14:12 pm
http://therichmarksentinel.com/rs_articles_contributors.asp?conid=47&recid=1385
ANC must stop playing right into the hands of its critics.
I was in a fairly good mood until I read that article. It depressed the hell out of me. But seriously – the ANC must pull it together – not to silence its critics – but for all our sake.
@ Gwebe and Shakira,
It is getting increasingly difficult to recognise the ANC – let’s hope that this is a temporary setback.
@ Maggs
I must say, I am a little disappointed in you, Maggs, for your suggestion that the ANC is “difficult to recognise.”
Just remember
1. No political party is perfect.
2. The same thing happens in every country in the world.
3. There is no conceivable alternative to the ANC.
Kindly keep these all in mind.
Maggs, I see Klatznow writes that “a previous vice-Chancellor of UCT, Ramphele Mamphela, is on record as saying that Bantu Education was better than the mess we have now.”
As you have pointed out before, even to suggest this is a disgrace. Clearly both Klawtznow and Dr Mamphela are racists.
Something ought to be done!
The whole problem lies not in the Constitution, the NPA Act, or the Prosecuting Policy, but in section 6(b) of the Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977. In terms of that section, a DPP (and, therefore, now also the NDPP) may at any stage after plea stop a prosecution, upon which the court has no discretion but to enter a verdict of Not Guilty and Discharged. This provision has been on the Statute Book for longer than the Constitution or the NPA Act, and is a dangerous weapon indeed in the hands of a prosecuting authority that is no longer really independent.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 15:30 pm
Just remember
1. No political party is perfect.
2. The same thing happens in every country in the world.
3. There is no conceivable alternative to the ANC.
Kindly keep these all in mind.
———————————————————————————————-
Indeed!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 15:35 pm
“a previous vice-Chancellor of UCT, Ramphele Mamphela, is on record as saying that Bantu Education was better than the mess we have now.”
Any link to where she said that?
It would be interesting to read what she said, rather than what others says she said.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 15:35 pm
“Maggs, I see Klatznow writes that ‘a previous vice-Chancellor of UCT, Ramphele Mamphela, is on record as saying that Bantu Education was better than the mess we have now.’”
Somehow I think that these people would disagree despite the mess we have in education.
“A record number of black candidates passed the professional practice examination (PPE) for auditing in 2009, says the Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors (IRBA).”
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article328939.ece
Mikhail:
“Just remember
1. No political party is perfect.”
Well actually, and speaking globally if I may, some are better, much better than others.
“2. The same thing happens in every country in the world.”
In varying degrees, try 0.001 in some modern Democracies in relation to ANC 11+ out of 10
“3. There is no conceivable alternative to the ANC.”
Irony is one thing, misleading, disinformative bullshit is another.
“Kindly keep these all in mind.”
What I’m beginning to think is that apartheid tore up so many people right across the color line, that there is little if any courage left. And what the hell goes with our legal profession, does no one have balls, (excuse me ladies) or at the very least, principles. Can no within the hallowed halls see a way through this nonsense and lay down the glove to corruption.
Is there not one highly principled ANC personage willing to lift the torch.
Or does everyone here sit on the bench for the perks and pension. Lady Justice is flat out on the ground, her scales shattered. I hold the Judiciary responsible. No excuses.
No apologies Michael if you think this out of line.
@ Maggs
See http://www.women24.com/Content/Parenting/TalkingPoint/2577/b60c9dacc2d54a739d814fd04c26eea3/19-03-2009-02-33/Apartheid_education_superior
“Earlier in the year academic Mamphela Ramphele and businesswoman Wendy Luhabe caused a sharp intake of breath in some circles when both suggested at a public meeting that “Bantu education” under apartheid had served them better than today’s kids are being served in post 1994 township schools. “
Hey Dworky – that is still what someone else thinks she said.
The closest quote I found was this :
“At a debate organised by the Sunday Times earlier this year, Wendy Luhabe, one of South Africa’s most successful businesswomen, said that the quality of education for the majority is now actually lower than it was under Bantu education. Luhabe stated: ‘I’m a product of Bantu education and when I look back it really seems much better than what education appears to be today’. She added that, ‘the difference was the quality and the commitment of our teachers’. Dr Mamphela Ramphele, former vice-chancellor of the University of Cape Town, and a person of great stature, agreed with her.”
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=51234610398
Was she commenting on Bantu education or the quality and commitment of teachers?
Either way – so far I have not been able to find what she has said in her own words.
Well, here is an advance. Constable Barnard’s case has been won by Barnard.
She will be advanced to Superintendent. As you likely know, she was held back for the color of her skin.
Maggs, I would not worry too much about what Dr Ramphele says.
What with all this nonsense she has been writing about the need for so-called “experience,” and not sacrificing excellence for transformation, it would not be suprising if she had indeed said this rubbish about Bantu Education having better better than what is being dished out today to black kids.
Just goes to show – even the widow of Steve Biko can adopt the mind set of LIBERAL RACISM!
Fassbinder: I have to admit. You are beyond my capacity to understand you. Although you do remind me of an old dear tranvestite friend who excelled in productions like Facade.
I think I’ll just ignore your posts in the future, same as I do with all the spin trolls who curse the internet with their obscene and ridiculous postings. You’ve got me mate. I give up on ya.
Sirjay. I have always respected your contributions – even where we have dramatically differed.
So, you may give up on me. But I shall never tire in my efforts to shake you out of your liberal complacencies.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 19:51 pm
Sure enough education is in a mess. Prof Jansen had some pretty damning comments.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/article313579.ece
and
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-02-25-jansen-warns-sa-is-on-the-precipice
On the other hand I have come across some very impressive young people who have been through the post 1994 education system.
“Crisis in education
“In conclusion Jansen turned to the crisis in university education. “At least 75% of university education is fraudulent. It’s simply bad.” He cited incidents of lecturers using the same exam papers three years in a row, students graduating with law degrees who are unable to read or write, and female students exchanging sex for pass marks.”
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-02-25-jansen-warns-sa-is-on-the-precipice
Maggs, with respect, I do not know why you are citing Prof Jansen as some kind of authority here.
Was he not the man who pardoned the four young men who perpetrated a digitized mini-Auschwitz at Reitz?
And was he not also terribly disrespecful to our Minister of Education?
Fass: I recall when the Regan/senior Bush, Bush jnr, and the entire republican team who purposely made ‘liberal’ a bad word, as though it was something to be ashamed of, as though you were a pedophile, gay or something even worse, a traitor for example. Am I a liberal? you bet, and I have nothing to apologize for. To me a liberal is someone who believes in equal rights and honest Democratic freedom, someone who believes in the dignity of man and women, of equality under the law. Someone who isn’t interested in ripping off the citizenry, but who strives to improve life for all with tolerance and support.
I see that even south africans have been fooled by the west’s maligned influence with the untruths about liberals, or what the term means. I just have issue with your irony. I think it is mostly misunderstood, and I believe it doesn’t honestly depict who you are or serve the needs of SA. To me your expression is part of the problem, not the solution. You inadvertently give credence to idiocy and support of the unsupportable.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 20:19 pm
“But I shall never tire in my efforts to shake you out of your liberal complacencies.”
Hey Dworky – your good intentions may just be misdirected.
“Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ”
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html
shakira says:
February 26, 2010 at 14:51 pm
“But seriously – the ANC must pull it together – not to silence its critics – but for all our sake.”
This, and the article reference below, is said as well as it gets.
“It is a worrying sign indeed when the leadership of the African National Congress can use its weight in strong and uncritical defence of the ANCYL president, a symptom of the burgeoning trend among its ranks of greed, avarice and an insatiable appetite to amass personal wealth, while millions of South Africans continue to live in misery.
“It cannot be the position of the ANC to sanction comprador bourgeoisie tendencies within its ranks as demonstrated by the parasitic non-patriotic nature of its cadres in relation to the state, particularly its provincial arms and local municipalities. …
“The ANC must take a difference stance, and wage a strong offensive among its ranks against inconspicuous, unashamed consumption and materialism. It must guard its soul jealously, alas we traverse the dangerous path of most revolutionary movements, and suffer the same fate as Côte d’Ivoire, Zambia, Zaire, Zimbabwe and Ghana, all in the name of the working class and the poor.
“The ANC must salvage the progressive and democratic project against the hegemony of triumphant comprador capitalism within its ranks. At best, it must breed a patriotic beourgeousie, though theoretically incorrect and inconceivable. And no, I’m not a communist. The new cadre must guard against the temptation to become a parasite from the state in acquiring wealth, lest he be accused of using political power to pursue narrow selfish interests, in the name of the working class and poor. Let us build the new cadre.”
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2010/02/26/gucci-comrades-the-ancs-new-cadre/
Shaker/Maggs:
“[The ANC] It must guard its soul jealously, alas we traverse the dangerous path of most revolutionary movements, and suffer the same fate as Côte d’Ivoire, Zambia, Zaire, Zimbabwe and Ghana, all in the name of the working class and the poor.”
The fact is that all of anti-colonial (and anti-apartheid), struggles were bourgeois revolutions though and through. In all cases, the bourgeoisie duped the working class into playing its part, with promises of nationalisation, right to work, etc.
In the great dialectical narrative, the next step would be the proletarian revolution. But everyone in the elite knows that this great step is to be deferred unto eternity. The beneficiaries of the bourgeois revolution know they must defend their spectacular material gains by pretending to believe that they are the midwives of the next, the real, revolution. In the meantime, they secure their legitimacy by energetically combating the insidious “racism” that so tragically bars their progress in corporate boardrooms, the bar, the bench, and the professions.
Such a boring, predictable script, it almost writes itself . . .
Anyone who has the Barnard affirmative action judgement, please send it on!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 26, 2010 at 19:51 pm
“Maggs, I would not worry too much about what Dr Ramphele says.”
It’s not what she days that’s the issue, it’s what is rumoured that she had said.
I have heard or read several comments that say that she said that Bantu Education was better.
No one yet has been able to point precisely to her having said that.
It’s seem that this is another attribution in the vein of “generally corrupt relationship”.
Maggs, I am not sure where or whether Dr Ramphele said this nonsense about post-1994 education being worse than BE.
But what I meant you should not worry about are her well-reported statements criticising race-based affirmative action.
She goes so far as to critique the appointment of “inexperienced” Black Phd’s to senior academic posts, saying it “undermines the quality of teaching.” (See ‘Laying Ghosts to Rest’ (2009), at 87.)
(What arrant nonsense! If you and I agree on one thing, it is that “experience” is just an excuse to keep blacks out!)
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 28, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Hey Dworky,
Misinformation is not helpful in solving the challenges that we face.
“She goes so far as to critique the appointment of ‘inexperienced’ Black Phd’s to senior academic posts, saying it ‘undermines the quality of teaching.’”
Indeed.
Here’s a case in point – http://www.witness.co.za/?showcontent&global_id=16290
http://www.witness.co.za/?showcontent&global_id=16290
“Law prof’s degrees questioned
18 Nov 2008
Sharon Dell
THE dean of the UKZN Faculty of Law, Professor Mike Cowling, is caught up in a storm over his qualifications from the University of Cambridge.
In a communiqué dated November 17 and circulated by e-mail to staff and students of the University of KwaZulu-Natal, vice-chancellor Malegapuru Makgoba announced that Cambridge records “indicate that Professor Cowling does not hold the LLM (Cantab) and M. Phil (Cantab) degrees as he [Cowling] claims”.
Makgoba said the long-serving Cowling has, with the approval of the university, been given a period of three weeks to “address the issues with Cambridge University and thereafter to provide the university with a comprehensive response”.
“The university takes an exceptionally serious view of this matter, which has the potential of undermining the university’s reputation and academic integrity. The university recognises the importance of acting expeditiously and fairly, having regard to the interests of both the university and Professor Cowling,” Makgoba said.
In response to a series of written questions from The Witness, a university spokesperson said no further comment could be forthcoming as the matter is sub judice.
The questions are about how the alleged problem with Cowling’s qualifications was identified; why it was considered necessary to release a communiqué before its resolution and what the possible consequences for Cowling are if he is shown to have intentionally or otherwise misrepresented his qualifications.
Cowling declined to comment other than to say that a process is under way to address the issue.
At the time of going to press, the University of Cambridge’s offices of external affairs and communications could only confirm that their records reflect that Cowling holds an LLB and a graduate diploma. Communications assistant Steve Scheja-Terry said that while the difference between the LLB and the LLM is “merely technical”, he is awaiting further information regarding the M. Phil/graduate diploma.
You are so right, Maggs.
Somone should call the attention of Dr Ramphele to the case of Mike Cowling.
That may help her see the errror of her ways!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
February 28, 2010 at 14:48 pm
That’s hardly likely to make an overall impact.
The primary determinant, for “some among us”, re that which is wrong, even bad, in our society, is race.
It’s what makes Lesetja Kganyago an almost faceless DG of Finance (we do know that he wears bold coloured ties) vs the highly competent and visible Dr Ramos notwithstanding the seamless transition, or Andrew Coleman a legend at SAA vs the failure that was Khaya Ngqula or that which made the recently reported nepotism at Vodacom relatively irrelevant or the middle page coverage of Tannebaum and Graeme Minne and and and …
Corruption, incompetence, greed, criminality is outrageous and unacceptable when Black people are the culprits.
Otherwise it’s just not nice when people get caught out, eh!
Dr Ramphele is a rare breath of fresh air.
As is our Prof!
Maggs: thanks for the article at http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html
However, as quoted: “aligning oneself with ‘unconventional’ philosophies such as liberalism or atheism may be ways to communicate to everyone that you’re pretty smart”, is juvenile y in my view.
“‘unconventional’ philosophies”… what crap!
So many ways to attack those who claim to be liberals by those with lazy thinking..
Yet it is liberals who care about liberal-ty, meaning all equal under the law.
Apologies: Liberal-ty should have read: liberty.
Pierre De Vos says:
February 27, 2010 at 17:00 pm
The Barnard case is here http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZALC/2010/10.html
With all the great legal minds on this blog, can somebody please tell me what Selebi is supposed to be guilty of? The only case the NPA seemed to have is Glen Agliotti, a desperate man trying to stay out of prison, and proven to be a criminal!
WE MIGHT BE HEADING FOR ANOTHER NICHOLSON MOMENT;
See below;
The former police chief and senior Interpol officer also faces charges of defeating the ends of justice.
He has pleaded not guilty and the State has relied heavily testimony from Agliotti to convict Selebi.
Listing a number of issues the court had to rule on, Joffe also said it had to be determined what role former national prosecuting authority chiefs Vusi Pikoli and Bululani Ngckuka played in the prosecution of Selebi.
Joffe ruled that a DVD recording by members of the Directorate for Special Operations (DSO) was admissible as evidence.
@ Prof or anyone who can assist.
Is it compulsory for a Judge to go through hundreds of pages of a judgement for several days? Is it not possible to summarise a judgement into about 10-15 pages and have a “Reasons Document” that can be distributed later or attached to the Summary Judgement. I suspect it is a waste of time to put aside number of days just to read a judgement that both parties will still have time to study and respond to at a later stage.
I guess Judges are just enjoying the attention.
Is this a difficult question to answer?