Constitutional Hill

Sexwale allegations: are we serious about violence against women or not?

Yesterday the Sunday Times carried a front page article in which it reported on shocking allegations made by Judy Sexwale against her husband Tokyo Sexwale during their on-going divorce battle. Judy accuses her husband of having subjected her to “physical, verbal, mental [and] emotional abuse and cruelty.” The physical abuse aspects of the story did not cause a stir. Instead, the Sunday Times was widely mocked and criticised for publishing it on its front page. “None of our business,” many people argued. Are most South Africans so used to violence against women (recent platitudes about their abhorrence of rape notwithstanding) or is the long abolished cautionary rule in sexual offense cases still embedded so deeply in the minds of patriarchal South Africans, that Judy’s allegations of spousal abuse were dismissed out of hand as either irrelevant or untrue?

In most democracies, serious allegations by a wife that her cabinet minister husband physically abused her would create a political storm. Journalists would rush to the cabinet minister’s house to hear his side of the story. The governing party would be hounded for comment. The big newspapers would send a crack team of reporters to try and dig up information that would either verify or disprove the allegations. They would speak to friends and acquaintances of the couple to hear if these allegations were known to anyone. They would probably also have pursued the question of whether Judy had any reason to fabricate these allegations.

They would have done so for two reasons. First, they want to sell newspapers and they know the story would satisfy the prurient interests of their readers. Second, they understand that in a democracy politicians are accountable to the voters and that politicians can only be held accountable if voters have the relevant facts – whatever these facts might be. One relevant fact (if eventually shown to be true) that would automatically end a politician’s career is that the politician is a wife-beater.

In South Africa: nothing.

Some patriarchs say that the allegations of spousal abuse made against Tokyo Sexwale must be false because women often lie about such things to get a bigger divorce settlement. Oh dear, the abolished cautionary rule rearing its ugly head again in the form of “common sense” bigotry. Members of the media – too busy chasing like a mad pack of dogs after the hot and sexy story of the month (which happens to be rape and not spousal abuse) – are too lazy or care too little about violence against women to pursue the matter. Or perhaps the story is too complex for the media to handle. As there are no easy answers and as the facts are not clear, better not touch these allegations – let’s rush to Bredasdorp instead and see if we can dig up some dirt.

Others say the cabinet minister is innocent until proven guilty and so we should not ask questions about whether the allegations are true because this would prejudice the minister. This is nonsense. Our Constitution guarantees every accused the right to a fair trial, which includes the right of an accused to be considered innocent by the court of law until such time as the state may have proven its case against him or her. It does not prevent us from asking whether serious allegations of criminal conduct are true or not. Where accusation are made against a cabinet minister and where such accusations go to the heart of his suitability to be a cabinet minister, it is clearly in the public interest to publish it – unless there is clear evidence that the allegations were fabricated. We cannot assume Sexwale is a wife beater. But neither can we assume that he is not.

Only a court can determine criminal guilt. But facts do not stop being facts merely because they have not yet been confirmed by a court. One fact in the Tokyo Sexwale case that we know is true is that Judy Sexwale has accused her husband of physically abusing her. This fact will not disappear because we stick our heads in the sand and try to ignore it because of some misguided attempt to protect “one of our own”.

The suspects in the Anene Booysen rape and murder case are also innocent until proven guilty. A court has not made any finding as to their guilt. Should that stop the media from reporting on the known facts around the case in fear of prejudicing the accused and creating the impression that they are guilty of rape and murder? Or is there one set of rules for rural poor men accused of violence against women and another for a rich, urbane, cabinet minister? After all, Sexwale is “one of us”, so it would make us feel more worthy and pious to believe him than to keep an open mind about whether he abused his wife or not.

In a democracy, it is the job of the media to find out what the relevant facts are and to tell us about these facts. Personally, I do not think it is relevant that Minister Sexwale is getting divorced: it is none of my business whether he is married or divorce and I could not care less about the personal squabbles of the couple. But if I know one thing it is this: in a constitutional democracy it is profoundly relevant that his wife accused him of physically abusing her as this accusation goes to the heart of his suitability to remain in politics.

Only the most brazenly sexist among us would argue that whether a cabinet minister is a wife beater or not is not a relevant issue that citizens have a right to be informed about. Of course, in this case the facts might eventually show that the claims against the minister are entirely baseless. But we do not know that yet. And without exposure in the media we are never likely to know, either whether he is a wife beater or an innocent man being framed. And assuming that the accusations made by Judy Sexwale are false or that they are none of our business because they have not been reported to the police previously, demonstrate exactly the kind of patriarchal attitudes which I claimed in an earlier post lies at the heart of the rape culture in South Africa.

Which brings me back to the question many asked after my last piece: if we are not going to take part in cheap publicity stunts and self-satisfied expressions of outrage about rape, what is to be done about addressing sexual violence in society?

First, we must take steps that would reduce the prevalence of sexual violence in our society. A comprehensive educational drive to help citizens analyse, critique and ultimately reject the rape culture we live in, would be a starting point.

Surely, as we speak the Minister of Basic Education must be formulating urgent plans on how to integrate questions of destructive masculinity, sex and gender inequality and problems with patriarchy into the school curriculum to counter the deeply held belief among many in our society that men own women and their bodies and can possess and dominate them (both emotionally and physically) as they please?

Every institute of higher learning must be rushing to introduce a compulsory first year course for all students, teaching them about how sex, gender, race, sexual orientation, class and disability are deployed by dominant groups to assert their power over (and to continue their subjugation of) non-dominant groups. Education can at least begin to break down stereotypes and unexamined attitudes of superiority that reinforce the subordination of disempowered groups and perpetuate the false sense of superiority of historically dominant groups. Here at UCT, we can institute an investigation on why the Humanities Faculty cancelled the only course in diversity literacy at the end of last year and we can ask what this says about our University’s commitment to breaking down racist, sexist and homophobic attitudes of students.

In churches, mosques and synagogues religious leaders should be rushing to tell their congregants that they will stop their sentimental infantilising of women, which sends the signal that women remain the property of men, albeit property that must be looked after relatively carefully – especially if women “behave” themselves and do not act as if they are free to go where they please and do what they please. Most religious leaders will have to repent and will have to admit that they have contributed (and continue to contribute) to the oppression of women and the reification of masculinity and male power.

And of course, every political leader should go beyond vague and self-serving statements about how they condemn brutal rape, and start talking about the causes of rape and propose solutions to address these causes. They must talk about the destructive manifestations of masculinity that turn many men into oppressors and rapists; they must talk about the absence of male role models who can teach male children that they should reject the forms of destructive masculinity that is supposed to imbue often broken and easily humiliated men with a false sense of pride and self-worth; they must talk about the patriarchal attitudes that live in the hearts of most South African men – whether they are traditional leaders, politicians, sportsmen or the ordinary soccer or rugby loving man who make rape jokes with his buddies or assert his dominance over them by telling them he will make them his “bitch”.

Second, we must take steps to apprehend the perpetrators of violence against women and get them convicted of their crimes. This would require a complete transformation of the criminal justice system. Let’s start with South African Police Service (SAPS), whose members and leadership will have to be trained about what the legal definition of rape is, how to treat a rape survivor with respect, how to take a decent statement from the survivor, how to gather the other evidence in the least invasive way, and how to prepare a case docket that could lead to conviction of the perpetrator. They will have to be taught not to dismiss accusations of rape out of hand because of their own prejudices or hatred of women. They will have to be taught how to deal with forensic evidence and how to follow up clues and how to apprehend suspects living in the community and known to that community. It would also help if they all suddenly stopped being homophobic and ended what often looks like the deliberate botching of rape case investigations against lesbians.

We will have to retrain our prosecutors and the NPA leadership and teach them that the evidentiary rule that assumes the testimony of rape complainants must be treated with caution has long since been discarded; that they should not drop cases merely because the complainant was not brutally attacked or because they suspect (because of their own prejudices) that the complainant just voluntarily exposed herself to the unspeakable ordeal of laying a rape charge because “women are prone to do that kind of thing”; that they must conduct their cases in a manner that would protect the complainants against cross examination about the complainants’ previous sexual history and must learn to protect complainants from the vicious character attacks by counsel defending the accused.

We need to re-educate judges about rape and about the minimum sentences that they are mandated to impose. We need to educate them about the fact that they have to impose minimum sentences for convicted rapist, unless serious and compelling reasons exist not to. They must be taught that it is not – as Chief Justice Mogoeng argued in a High Court judgment – a serious and compelling reason to reduce the minimum sentence of a child rapist because the rape was allegedly committed in a “tender” manner. (Nor is it a serious and compelling reason to reduce the sentence because the rapist was young/ the rapist was older; the rapist did not have a job/ or had a job; the rapist knew the victim/ the rapist did not know the victim; the rapist was educated/ the rapist was note educated – all factors used in the past by our courts to justify not imposing a minimum sentence.)

Third we need to protect and nurture the survivors of rape. The state needs to establish rape crisis centres across the country or adequately fund the existing rape crisis centres. While we wait for the state to do so (and we will probably wait very long because the Minister of Women and Children is herself not particularly sympathetic to those who claim they are abused by men), we can all donate money to rape crisis or volunteer our time to assist rape crisis (see http://rapecrisis.org.za/support-us/donate/).

How many of these proposals will find favour and will actually be implemented by those in charge? As things stand now, very few to none. This is because the cheap outrage about rape cost nothing while the kind of actions I propose will require real political will (and a real understanding of the problem) to implement. We will only manage to force the government and others to do these things if we organise in ways that go beyond cheap publicity stunts and if we can manage to put real political pressure on the government, on schools, on religious groups on universities on our colleagues and our family.

  • anni

    It is unbeleiveable how these ministers get away with abuse of women in SA ….its time that something gets done, said, published … very well written

  • Lisbeth

    Some things will never change.

    http://www.causeofdeathwoman.com/sayings

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    So assume Pierre de Vos has found Sexwale guilty already?

    What happens one day when one of his disgruntled lovers or students accuses him of rape. Would he rage against the “cautionary rule in sexual offense” also, or would he happily plead guilty until proven innocent.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    “The suspects in the Anene Booysen rape and murder case are also innocent until proven guilty.”

    “The Star reported on Friday that among Judy Sexwale’s demands are the following:

    “*An order that assets of the trust (of which they are both trustees) be regarded as assets of the joint estate.

    * An order directing the equal division of their assets, including the assets of the two trusts.

    * Pay maintenance of R150 000 on the first day of each month and to increase the amount annually on the date of the anniversary of the granting of the decree of divorce at the rate of the consumer price index.

    * To provide her with a home of her choice that is valued at no less than R70 million. The house has to be registered in her name.

    * To pay for rates, taxes, electricity and water charges levied on the R70m property.

    * To pay for home insurance and security “reasonably required”.

    * To pay her a sum of R3m for household necessities for the establishment of a home.

    * A car of her choice every five years, worth no less than R1m. Like the house, the car has to be registered in her name.”

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=356595&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    It is sort of disgusting that given the circumstances PdV would conflate the gruesome rape and murder of an impoverished young girl with what could turn out to be a set of manufactured allegations about marital abuse to gain the upper hand in a very high profile and may I add lucrative divorce settlement.

    And in doing so he does an extreme injustice to that young girl even make a mockery of what happened to her in that inhumane and savage ordeal.

  • Dmwangi

    “It is sort of disgusting that given the circumstances PdV would conflate the gruesome rape and murder of an impoverished young girl with what could turn out to be a set of manufactured allegations about marital abuse to gain the upper hand in a very high profile and may I add lucrative divorce settlement.

    And in doing so he does an extreme injustice to that young girl even make a mockery of what happened to her in that inhumane and savage ordeal.”

    Spot on!

  • http://www.rusilent.com Michelle Solomon

    Exactly. I was going to write a column about this, but you read my mind and did it beautifully.

    Do you know what is even cheaper than publicity stunts and #stoprape campaigns? Giving women stricter curfews. ;)

    I can’t take anyone seriously who suggests that telling women/girls to be responsible will stop rape. It’s not only unimaginative, it isn’t working. And its those kinds of attitudes that give survivors hell.

    All these interventions you listed above need to be implemented if we are actually going to be serious about stopping rape. And South Africans should be calling and fighting for it. Anything less is lip service, and does nothing for the broader anti-rape movement.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    “They must talk about the destructive manifestations of masculinity that turn many men into oppressors and rapists; they must talk about the absence of male role models who can teach male children that they should reject the forms of destructive masculinity that is supposed to imbue often broken and easily humiliated men with a false sense of pride and self-worth; they must talk about the patriarchal attitudes that live in the hearts of most South African men – whether they are traditional leaders, politicians, sportsmen or the ordinary soccer or rugby loving man who make rape jokes with his buddies or assert his dominance over them by telling them he will make them his “bitch”.”

    Perhaps that will help.

    Some reports suggest that in a sample, one in three South African men have admitted raping someone.

    That possibly that two in three men don’t, yet they are subject to the same/similar life’s experiences.

    We need more Jenny Pillays

    A Hindu priest whose “respectable, revered, God-like persona transformed into a lewd pervert behind closed doors” has been sentenced to life imprisonment for raping a 12-year-old girl from oThongathi (Tongaat).

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/swami-gets-life-for-raping-girl-1.1433792#.URkrvPLjBOw

    Durban – Police investigation and DNA analysis, which proved that a father had repeatedly raped and impregnated his 15-year-old daughter, has led to him being sentenced to life in prison.

    The child born out of the incestuous relationship died at five months from severe malnutrition.

    The father had told the Verulam Regional Court he was uneducated and did not know the rape was wrong, or that the baby had suffered from malnutrition.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/baby-dna-sends-rape-dad-to-jail-1.1468177#.URkrwfLjBOw

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Contrast that with

    Johan Dietricht appeared in the Western Cape High Court before acting Judge Nape Dolamo, who said Dietricht had faced life imprisonment for premeditated murder. …

    The judge said he had sympathy for Dietricht, but that he had to guard against being too lenient in the passing of sentence.

    He added: “My sympathy for your circumstances has to be balanced against the interests of the community and the gravity of the offence.”

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/prison-warden-jailed-for-wife-s-murder-1.1466203#.URPOcPLjBOw

  • Chris (Not the right wing guy)

    Perhaps we need more judges like Nugent, Petse and Erasmus:
    http://www.justice.gov.za/sca/judgments/sca_2012/sca2012-168.pdf

    They don’t need tp be re-educated. As judges of the SCA they are the educators. Unfortunately some of the judges in other courts don’t listen, or just don’t wan’t to apply what they hear.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 11, 2013 at 19:44 pm

    So you think he did that because he was a masculine patriarch or perhaps he was devastated by the most intimate betrayal?

    “He told the court: “She was a housewife, but then started working, and then began cheating on me with her boss.” He said his wife often flirted with her employer in his presence, and even went away for weekends with the employer. On one occasion, he caught his wife in bed with him, he said. He said he left the marital home and stayed with his sister. On August 21, 2009, he took anti-depression medication, and drank a full bottle of sherry, before telephoning his wife from the prison.”

  • Beetle

    PdeV, you neglected to mention drugs, tik whoonga, nyaope. Nigerian drug pedlars that trade in broad-daylight under the nose of the police.
    Ditto gansterism and initiation rites.
    Ditto poor or non existant parenting.
    Dare I say it, but I dont see broken traumatised men, and I don’t see noble savages , born free but ever

  • Beetle

    Bor free but in chains – I see dope heads, fetal alcohol syndrome and low IQ

  • http://rusilent.com Michelle Solomon

    Pierre, can you seriously not block this Blue Ozone tool? In his last comment he justified the murder of a woman because her husband was “traumatised” by her infidelity. Talk about misogyny!

    Does that kind of lunacy qualify as hate speech? It should.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    I was not “justifying” anything Michelle. Perhaps there are unstable people in the world with too much “passion”, it has very little to do with “male masculinity”.

    “Lesbian stabs estranged lover 222 times before killing herself moments before police arrive.”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081857/Lesbian-stabs-estranged-lover-222-times-killing-moments-police-arrive.html#ixzz2KcyvlmDR
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    I fact of all the violent relationships I have seen perhaps lesbian couples can be the most viscous.

  • Brett Nortje

    LOL! Bedoel jy dalk v-i-c-i-o-u-s?

  • Brett Nortje

    What is it with Pierrot and fatherfigures?

    Hasn’t he heard of Arrested Development?

    P.s. Hands up anyone who thinks anything on his wishlist is likely to come about?

    Pierrot could provide a far greater service by going to teach the women of Bredasdorp to shoot, a) and b) by teaching them the fundamentals of the Law relating to Private Defence!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    February 11, 2013 at 21:01 pm

    Hey Blue Boy,

    “So you think he did that because he was a masculine patriarch or perhaps he was devastated by the most intimate betrayal?”

    Either way he deserves to live out the remainder of his life away from the rest of society as our laws would have it.

    And maybe the judge should join him.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    February 12, 2013 at 0:07 am

    Well Goofy,

    During the World Cup (remember that time when we leased, rent-free, our country and all state institutions to FIFA – no wait we paid them to take charge of us all, sort of like is being done with the GUPTAS but on a larger scale) – there were these fantabulous courts even in specially designed trucks along the roadside.

    It should not be too hard to replicate to deal with sexual offenses – perhaps Professor Zuma could contact Emperor Blatter for some advice on how it should be done?

  • Robert Brand

    I can’t believe these words coming from someone who professes to believe in rule of law: “In a democracy, it is the job of the media to find out what the relevant facts are and to tell us about these facts.” Surely, as a lawyer you should understand that once the matter is before the courts – as it is in this case – it is the job of the COURT to find out what the relevant facts are, not of the media. You want us to convict someone on the basis of an allegation that hasn’t been tested in court and for which no evidence has been presented. Come on Pierre!

  • Brett Nortje

    Were Judy Sexwale’s statements part of an affidavit?

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, I would forget about the deterrent effect of anything that involved the NPA.

    The World Cup was a unique situation (uncomfortable too, for the ANusClowns) in which government was actually accountable for its actions for a couple of months. Even though it was not to We the people.

  • Brett Nortje

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/30-pak-taxis-Dit-was-selfverdediging-se-drie-20130211

    30 pak taxi’s: Dit was selfverdediging, sê 3

    2013-02-11 23:00
    Aletta Otto

    Middelburg. – Drie mans is gister hier in hegtenis geneem nadat ’n groep mense glo met verfbalgewere op taxi-passasiers losgebrand en hulle met ’n bof­bal­-kolf en gholfstokke aangerand het.

    Ernest Hartzenberg (23), Mossie Moss (40) en Johnny van Eeden (22) het elk borgtog van R1 000 by die Middelburg-polisiekantoor betaal en sal vandag in die landdroshof verskyn op aanklagte van aanranding met die opset om ernstig te beseer en van poging tot moord.

    Die drie het gister in die polisiekantoor aan Beeld gesê hulle het uit selfverdediging opgetree.

    Volgens Hartzenberg was hy, Van Eeden en Moss se kinders Saterdag by ’n lodge in die Loskop-omgewing.

    Hartzenberg het die kinders, Isabella (11) en Dylan (14), by hom in sy motor gehad. Van Eeden, sy verloofde, Simoné (17), en hul babadogter, Jaime (15 maande), het voor in hul eie motor gery. “Ek moes by die Dennesig-aansluiting vir Moss kry en sy kinders vir hom hier aflaai,” het Hartzenberg gesê.

    “Op pad terug het ’n Quantum-minibussie my op ’n nou gedeelte verbygegaan en van die pad afgedruk. Ek het maar net aangehou ry.

    “ ’n Ent vorentoe het hulle afgetrek. Ek het verby gery en by ’n padverlegging gestop.

    “Die bussie het regs langs my in die aankomende verkeer se baan gestop.”

    Sommige passasiers het glo uit die bussie gespring en teen Hartzenberg se motor geürineer.

    “Die een het sy hand deur die oop ruit by Isabella geruk en haar aan haar arm uit die kar probeer trek. Ander het foto’s van my kar met hul selfone geneem en gesê dat hulle my sal doodmaak as hulle my in die dorp sou kry. Gelukkig het die padwerkers toe aangedui dat ek kan ry en ek het weggejaag.”

    Intussen het Moss, sy vrou, Natalie, en Van Eeden by die Dennesig-aansluiting stilgehou en vir Hartzenberg gewag.

    Pas nadat Hartzenberg daar stilgehou het, het die twee bussies by hulle stilgehou. Die bestuurder van een van die bussies het uitgeklim en volgens Hartzenberg om verskoning gevra. “Ek het hom gevra waar is die mense wat Isabella probeer uittrek het en my gedreig het met die dood. Een van die mans het gesê: ‘Ja, you white c***s.’ Johnny het hom weggestoot en toe begin hulle ons slaan.”

    Volgens hom het hy en sy vriende teruggeslaan.

    Hartzenberg het gesê ’n vreemde man in ’n wit motor het toe daar verby gery en met ’n verfbalgeweer op die bussiepassasiers geskiet. Die vroue het in die een motor gespring en weggejaag. Oomblikke later het talle voertuie daar stilgehou.

    Neels Engelbrecht, tydelike voorsitter van die Kanonkop-Dennesig-radiogroep, het gesê van die lede van dié groep was wel op die toneel.

    Kol. Leonard Hlathi, polisiewoordvoerder, het gesê die mans het aanklagte van onsedelike aanranding en opsetlike saakbeskadiging teen die bussiepassasiers aanhangig gemaak.

    – Piet en Susan Eksteen, na wie in gister se berig verwys is, is by ’n heeltemal ander radiogroep in die dorp betrokke.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    February 12, 2013 at 8:23 am

    Hmmm!

    “The World Cup was a unique situation (uncomfortable too, for the ANusClowns) in which government was actually accountable for its actions for a couple of months.”

    When Blatter eventually retires should we could campaign for him to become our Pharaoh?

    It helps that our national coffers have become one big PYRAMID scheme.

    Prof Zuma could even organise for him to have a few “mummies”.

  • Brett Nortje

    We’ve just presented a very successful Afcon Cup. Shows you what this country is capable of. If only we could get rid of the ANC….l

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Robert Brand
    February 12, 2013 at 7:21 am

    “it is the job of the COURT to find out what the relevant facts are, not of the media.”

    Brand (that is such a disgusting strong masculine name, Michelle would have you banned on the spot) – the travesty of justice you are referring to only happens in banana republic monarchies like Britain ruled by that evil masculine patriarch “Queen” Elisabeth.

    PdV will tell you in a constitutional democracy we sommer trail people in the media, in the court of public opinion as Bulelani put it.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 12, 2013 at 8:42 am

    You are off on a tantrum again.

    The question remains – can there be any YIN without the YANG. Or have we again been mislead by thousands of year of religious and philosophical misanthropy?

    “Genesis 1:27
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

    What does science, reason and logic tell us about the biological nature of man?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    February 12, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Blue Boy,

    “Genesis 1:27
    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”

    What’s the relevance of that crap?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 12, 2013 at 9:23 am

    “What’s the relevance of that crap?”

    I don’t know. Somebody whispered in my ear that 80% of South Africans are Christian. In fact when my 14 year old was confronted during a “hymn book inspection” at school he said they didn’t know what an “atheists” is and proceeded to say but never mind he is a “European”.

    I do encourage him to compare different religious philosophies though – this is an explanation from the Quran:

    “This variance does not negate the principle of equality; rather it is a sign of social complement and solidarity between people. Each gender has special qualities that, in general, lead each gender to be better qualified for a particular role. Due to the fact that women have the exclusive ability and responsibility for the continuation of humanity’s existence; men must fulfill the financial responsibility to maintain stability and balance in the family and society. Moreover, the roles are not mutually exclusive. It is a natural part of life for variance to exist between people concerning their strengths, abilities and qualifications[11]. Therefore, Islam emphasizes women rights of education, work, and socio-economic and political development. Muslim women throughout the history of the Ummah played a significant role on socioeconomic development of their societies.”

    http://www.fiqhcouncil.org/node/12

  • Gwebecimele

    I wonder how many women would love to be in Judy’s position??
    When Tiger Woods was divorcing he was called all sorts of names and suprisingly the ex-wife is willing to come back at a price.

  • Gwebecimele

    Without knowing the details, I suspect we are dealing with “Loui Vitton/Burberry” version of the nothern suburbs abuse which is completely different from what majority of abused women are experiencing.

    Having said that, I believe she is entitled to half the estate during the marriage and after divorce. As for the reasons for divorce, that is entirely a personal choice. She can divorce him for snoring for that matter.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    February 12, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Blue Boy,

    “I don’t know”.

    Stop quoting religion as though it’s reasonable, rational, relevant, sensible!

    All this awful stuff that we’re on about, has its roots in religion.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 12, 2013 at 15:28 pm

    “All this awful stuff that we’re on about, has its roots in religion.”

    Rubbish.

    If it wasn’t for religion/socialisation/civilisation we would still be swinging around in trees like the bonobos and baboons.

  • joeslis

    Maggs

    “All this awful stuff that we’re on about, has its roots in religion.”

    Amen to that!

  • DM Mwangi

    Maggs:

    I am always uplifted by the fact that you fastidiously avoid sweeping dogmatic statements:

    E.g. All this awful stuff that we’re on about, has its roots in secularism.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    DM Mwangi
    February 12, 2013 at 16:41 pm

    Hey Dm,

    In the secular world all are equal.

    In the non-secular world – god made man in his own image and women from the oke’s rib. And then the brothers and sisters started bonking each other.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 12, 2013 at 18:58 pm

    “In the secular world all are equal.”

    In the secular world it is dog eat dog and the fittest survive, boet.

  • Brett Nortje
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Try again Brett – like Ozone Boy’s brain “server not found”!

  • Brett Nortje

    Yes, I had the same problem. Copy the link and paste it in your address bar and it will take you there.

    Anyway, what reminded me of Skroewie was the experience of my friend Melanie, who was accosted in her house by a strange man. She managed to insinuate him into her courtyard and got herself out of it. Then she insinuated Pablo (her Afghan hound) and her Dobermann bitch (who shall remain nameless) into the courtyard. I help prepare that bitch for her suitability-for-breeding test and thought she bit very nicely but Pablo completely overshadowed her in the using-human-toothbrush department.

    Funny, because I never knew Afghans could bite.

    Mel’s armed response told her the guy had escaped from Falkenburg and was wanted subsequently for 3 rapes in the area.

  • DM Mwangi

    “In the secular world all are equal.”

    Hmmm… Which “all” is that? Secularists usually deny that all living members of the species Homo sapiens have equal rights.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “I never knew Afghans could bite.”

    Brett, I presume that is why you would not hitherto have directed your favourite imperative, “BITE ME” to an Afghan, thinking it was futile. But now you do?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 12, 2013 at 20:31 pm

    Are you being serial?

  • Brett Nortje

    You’re here arguing citizens should – exclusively – rely on the state to protect them. Surrender their autonomy. Nanny should kiss baby’s booboos and make them better.

    Well, what if Melanie had listened to you statist-collectivists?
    Not a nice outcome for her, no?

    She had the means at hand (first her wits and then her dogs) and she protected herself and possibly saved other women a lot of heartache.

    Of course, you prefer the outcome where first Mel was a victim possibly dead, but then she would benefit from:

    First, the guy who would have been Pablo’s victim would receive comprehensive education to help him analyse, critique and ultimately reject the rape culture. He would learn how sex, gender, race, sexual orientation, class and disability are deployed by dominant groups to assert their power over (and to continue their subjugation of) non-dominant groups. That way his stereotypical thinking and unexamined attitudes of superiority would be broken down.

    Then, steps would be taken take to apprehend Mel’s attacker and get him convicted of their crimes. Hopefully by then the transformation of the criminal justice system would be complete. “The South African Police Service (SAPS)’ members and leadership will have been trained about what the legal definition of rape is, how to treat a rape survivor with respect, how to take a decent statement from the survivor, how to gather the other evidence in the least invasive way, and how to prepare a case docket that could lead to his conviction. They will have to be taught not to dismiss accusations of rape out of hand because of their own prejudices or hatred of women. They will have to be taught how to deal with forensic evidence and how to follow up clues and how to apprehend suspects living in the community and known to that community. It would also help if they all suddenly stopped being homophobic and ended what often looks like the deliberate botching of rape case investigations against lesbians.”

    This will all be of great comfort to poor dead Mel.

    ‘Our prosecutors would have been retrained and taught that the evidentiary rule that assumes the testimony of rape complainants must be treated with caution has long since been discarded’ (fukked if I know how this would help Mel….)

    “Third we need to protect and nurture the survivors of rape. The state needs to establish rape crisis centres across the country or adequately fund the existing rape crisis centres. While we wait for the state to do so (and we will probably wait very long because the Minister of Women and Children is herself not particularly sympathetic to those who claim they are abused by men), we can all donate money to rape crisis or volunteer our time to assist rape crisis (see http://rapecrisis.org.za/support-us/donate/).”

    (I’m sure poor dead Mel would really appreciate this gesture)

    “How many of these proposals will find favour and will actually be implemented by those in charge? As things stand now, very few to none.”

    Hhhmmmm.

    Upon reflection, Dworky, I prefer the outcome where Pablo and Bella bit the crapppp out of Mel’s would-be attacker?

    Hope you don’t mind. Can we still be friends?

  • Gwebecimele

    So Judy is broke and staying in a small flat. Ag shame.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Tokyo-denies-physically-abusing-wife-20130213

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    February 13, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Calm down G.

    I’m all for people defending themselves and/or being prepared to defend themselves.

    But there’s something wonky about saying that every woman must be turned into a killing machine, walk around all day everyday with dangerous, dick-piercing devices stuffed inside them, have a sachet of chilli-powder handy, have 360 degree vision …

    Crime will reduce if the probability of criminals getting caught and sentenced is high – those responsible must do their work and they must do it well.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Gwebecimele
    February 13, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Gwebs,

    If Sexwale runs his personal life in the same way as he ran his “presidential campaign” …

    #JustSaying!

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, how long since the ConCourt’s flight of fancy in Makwanyane?

  • Brett Nortje

    Hey, we’re closer to a working definition of ‘National Key Point’!

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=357230&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    “Gedleyihlekisa and the fellows apparently commandeered the Tlokwe municipal buildings and a nearby hotel – where Zuma held individual interviews with ANC councillors. Councillors were also told to clear the council parking lot so that the Zuma entourage (did he bring his wives and bodyguards?) would have somewhere to park.

    A DA councillor was apparently threatened with arrest if the lot wasn’t cleared pronto because Zuma’s business was “in the national interest” – the national interest being ANC party political business.”

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Talking about the big sister who is watching you.

    “and I say for worse because it can be very intrusive into private space.”

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Sexwale-story-sign-of-Twitter-times-20130211

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Pink Floyd Mother

    “mother do you think they will try to break my balls”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBkTUzKAiXQ

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    February 13, 2013 at 9:55 am

    This is where I stopped reading.

    “The seat of the local municipality is a dismal place called Potchefstroom – or, to its friends, Potch. (used to be an infantry camp there; maybe there still is.)”

    Any moron that still calls Potch “dismal” probably has never been here in over 20 years. It is a lovely little university town now with a vibrant nite live.

  • Michael Osborne

    “used to be an infantry camp [in Potch]”

    I do not recall there was SAI in Potch. You may be thinking of artillery.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    February 13, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Hey OB,

    “Any moron that still calls Potch “dismal” probably has never been here in over 20 years. It is a lovely little university town now with a vibrant nite live.”

    Indeed!

    I know of a guy who runs an internet based business in Potch.

    He’s a rather silly fellow.

    Do you know him???

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    February 13, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Maggs – there are many silly fellows in this world who run “internet businesses”. How do you expect I should know all 1.1 billion of them?

  • Brett Nortje

    Take it up with Jeremy Gordin. He wrote the blog. Or; Go cry to your Comrades!

    P.s. Did the mayor promise you a ride in his new car?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    February 13, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    LOL!

    Find the silliest fellow in Potch – really, really silly.

    Then look in the mirror and say “dumbass!’

  • Brett Nortje

    So, that is your answer to hundreds of millions of waste right in your back yard? You’re not going to read any further? Everyone knows Gordin tries very hard to be funny. Too hard.

    BTW? Did JZ stop by to meet&greet you?

    BTW2? Supra wants to change the name of North West Province? When you see him again can you tell him I suggest ‘Potholia’?

    I can understand with the political assassinations in the NorthWest and all the corruption and collapse you guys need a bit of a break from serious matters like governance….

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    February 13, 2013 at 13:08 pm

    “Everyone knows Gordin tries very hard to be funny. Too hard. ”

    The point is he is not funny at all. I have had enemas that were more amusing than reading his trite mumbo-jumbo.

    “BTW? Did JZ stop by to meet&greet you?”

    No. JZ was in and out cause that is the way he rolls.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    February 13, 2013 at 13:12 pm

    Ozone Boy,

    “I have had enemas”

    These enemas – are those plural of enemies?

    #JustAsking!

  • Gwebecimele

    Maggs

    Judy might be poor and Sexwale ran a poorly managed campaign but let us not forget that he was not the worst Premier nor is he a a bad Minister or businessman.

    As for his personal life, let us order coke and popcorns we migth hear serious stuff.

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  • Gwebecimele

    Sexwale lawyer called 702 this morning and warned John not to repeat or broadcast denied allegations about the abuse. Did you get a call PdV? John was asked to apologise for linking Tokyo with women abuse or other cases.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Gwebecimele
    February 20, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Gwebs,

    I don’t get the sense at all that PdV is repeating the allegation.

    He does however suggest that the media had a duty to investigate further and get Sexwale’s comment.

    Gundlefinger did say that it’s illegal to publish such allegations even if “permission” from those involved was obtained.

  • Gwebecimele

    Maggs

    PdV is expecting a political storm based on Judy’s claim and Tokyo’s denial. He is asking, if we are serious enough. I think he jumped the gun.

  • Rukudzo Tadiwa Matanda

    The media wished not to publish the story
    because it felt that it would prejudice the minister. And regardless of this,
    the media’s aim is to inform the public of facts as it is a matter of public
    interest. Secondly with the prominent issue of domestic violence in south
    Africa, when members of the public eye especially leaders of the country are
    involved in such sensitive issues, it should be the media’s job to ensure that
    the citizens of south Africa know exactly what happened and whether or not
    justice was brought in the case of the minister being found guilty of such
    allegations. The public should know that the leaders take the issue of domestic
    violence with great importance and that no one, whether of higher or lower
    class can be above the law