I fear I might have been infected by the conspiracy virus now doing the rounds in South Africa. It seems to be fatal to any logical and coherent thought, so I am a bit distressed. Surely this cannot happen to me? Only ANC NEC members and those types who think Jacob Zuma is the black Messiah and that he will be pro-poor (yeah, right) are supposed to succumb to the virus. Soon I might be contacting an IT specialist to help me to play recordings of Jacob Zuma speeches backward to try and find out what hidden messages are contained in the pearls of wisdom that seem to flow out of his mouth at an alarming rate.
You see, when I was at school during the apartheid era, we were continuously warned about the dangerous “communistic” messages hidden in records by such counter-revolutionaries (oops, I forgot, during the apartheid era “counter-revolutionaries” were called “communists and terrorists”), as Queen (always liked that band for some reason….), The Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan.
When you played these records backwards, we were told, it contained messages about how one should love Satan and how one should believe in equality and non-discrimination (which were both illegal at the time, I think). Problem was, I never could figure out how to play records (or, later, CD’s) backwards, so I missed out on being a Satanist (and killing black cats, wearing black clothes and staying up half the night chanting the Lord’s Prayer backwards did seem like a bit of a bother). I did have an alarming thought or two about whether apartheid was really such a bright idea and whether one person one vote would not be more fair, but maybe that was just because I listened to David Kramer and Sipho “Hotstix” Mabusa.
In any case, I have been troubled for the past day or two about why Judge President John Hlophe (and there you thought I was going to write a whole post without mentioning him) seems to be trying everything possible – even handing in a sick note for goodness sake! – to try and avoid a JSC hearing.
It was only when I had the absurd thought that maybe Hlophe was hoping that a differently constituted JSC disciplinary committee would absolve him of all charges after the election that I went round the bend and came up with a conspiracy theory all of my own.
There are thirteen members on the JSC disciplinary committee. These arethe chief justice (CJ Langa), the president of the Supreme Court of Appeal (J Lex Mpati), a senior judge president (J Bernard Ngoepe), the justice minister (Min Enver Surty), two advocates nominated by the profession (MTK Moerane, M Seligson) two attorneys nominated by the profession (J von Klemperer, M Ngubane) one university law teacher (J Neethling), and four presidential appointees (G Bizos SC, S Nthai SC, K Moroka, J Ernstzen). Langa and Surty have recused themselves, so only eleven members will hear the Hlophe case if it proceeds on Saturday.
But what could happen after the election? The President could replace four members on the JSC with members supportive of Hlophe if he so wished. He could also appoint a “sympathetic” Justice Minister. The Chief Justice have recused himself. So, if a “deal” had been made between Hlophe and Mr Zuma, the latter could ensure 5 votes for Hlophe on the JSC by manipulating the JSC appointments process. Then Hlophe only had to secure the support of one more member of the JSC to ensure that the JSC would not be able to vote for his impeachment.
I am not being sarcastic when I say this scenario is so preposterous that I refuse to seriously contemplate it. I happen to think the ANC will let Hlophe go if it came to that. After all, nothing rides for the ANC on his survival as a judge and the ANC and Zuma have a lot to lose by being seen so blatantly to undermine the constitutional institutions that have been put in place to safeguard our democracy. That is also why I believe the ANC majority in parliament will vote for Hlophe’s impeachment if the JSC recommends it.
This is not because the ANC would have had a sudden attack of morals or high principles, but because it would not be in the interest of the ANC to upset big business who might accept many things but would really want a relatively honest judiciary to ensure some legal certainty and to secure their interest. And what big business wants – seeing that they donate the big bucks to the political parties and secure BEE deals – they usually get.
So, even if this is the Judge President’s legal and political strategy, I suspect it is misguided.
But in the off chance that President Zuma replaces those members of the JSC who are perceived to be independent and might have voted against Hlophe during the current process, we would all know for certain what kind of President Mr Zuma would be. And we would all have to be very afraid.
Meanwhile, I am going to look for my old Queen CD’s. Maybe I can get the CD player to go backwards if I sing Umshini Wam over and over again. Come to think of it, what will one hear when one plays Umshini wam backwards? I suspect the comrades will be upset because what they will hear is: “I love capitalism and big business. Bring me my Mercedes Benz…..”
Eish, you guys neves STOP speculating jy weet! One would swear you are privately Sangomas, I mean, we do have white sangomas, dont we? Jacob Zuma, I beg your pardon, President Zuma has just confirmed that Afrikaaners are after all indeginous moes, hence this typical sangomic (if dez such word) over speculation!
It is shocking however that PdV is already preparing fertile grounds for the future undermining of confidence not only in the NPA but also the JSC. Next Zuma will be accused of plotting to the make-up of the SCA, the CC and the higher courts. If in the past he accused any of the Malemas, Mantashes and the Vavis of undermining the independence of the judiciary by publicly speculating about their motives and their allegiances then he is demonstrating for us now how a learned man like himself is on the same intellectual level as a township boy who failed his grade 7 woodwork.
Ai ozoneblue and Spuy, not even a smile from you guys? I thought I was quite witty….
Pierre I would have thought it funny if it wasn’t for the fact that you keep on referring to people like me as conspiracy theorists.
I have also asked you on the other thread, why is it that you don’t want South Africans to know the truth about the NPA ? Is it not in public interest ? Do you hate Zuma so much that you want him to go to court even without such crucial evidence. I think you are taking Zuma’s ‘homophobic” remarks way too personally.
Apartheid schooling also taught me about backward masking….
Another one bites the dust – taught me “it’s fun to smoke marijuana”
or whatever you want to believe
Ozoneblue, I would love for “the truth” about the NPA to come out and for allegations about it to be tested – IN A COURT OF LAW and for this boil to be lanced oonce and for all. In the absence of a finding by a judge we will never know (a) whether Zuma is guilty and (b) whether the NPA was abused. Why are you guys so scared of the courts? Maybe because courts have a way of getting to the bottom of things eventually?
By the way, this post in no way undermines the JSC. IT makes NO allegations against any member of the JSC and does not suggest any of them are corrupt or will take action based on reasons other than the facts and the law. If the JSC makes a decision that decision MUST of course be scrutinised to see if it holds water and if one thinks the JSC was wrong one must criticise it, pointing to the facts and the law to say why. Its call accountability and democracy. (This I have done regarding the Oasis matter – I never once suggested that decision was based on corruption, bribes or race, though, but pointed out why the decision seemed illogical given the fact that the person who was supposed to have given permission to Hlophe to receive all that money from Oasis was dead and had stopped being the MInister 18 months before the payments started.) The same goes for court judgments. What one should not do is to equate the race of a person who made a decision with the outcome or hint without any proof (as some unfortunately have done in the Nicholson case) that the decision-maker was corrupted. That is the kind of apartheid mindset that we cannot afford because it undermines respect for our institutions.
Professor, isnt it a bit ironic to ask us why are we ” …so scared of the courts?”. Last I checked it was you and company who said President Zuma was ‘ducking’ ‘avoiding’ ‘dodging’ his day in Court by using the Courts, duh !!! I ll never really understand julle!
I think the JSC is faced with the same problem as the NPA. Find “in favour” (read, not against) of Hlope (perhaps that there was misconduct but it was not gross) and JZ (that, in view of his representations, the prospects of success are not strong enough) and you will have all the self-proclaimed guardians of our Constitution crying foul.
If the likes of Prof would keep to their word and do as he suggests: “If the JSC makes a decision that decision MUST of course be scrutinised to see if it holds water and if one thinks the JSC was wrong one must criticise it, pointing to the facts and the law to say why”, I would be the happiest man alive. Sadly, we know better than that!…..we all know that Prof doesn’t mean this any more than JZ meant it when he explained why he took a shower after having sex with an HIV positive person!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1165473/He-wives-faced-783-corruption-charges-PETER-HITCHENS-South-Africas-president.html
@ Prof P. De Vos
I have quite consistently visited this sight over the past twelve or so months. I must say, that your provocative writing does lend itself to interesting debates that come up herein-appreciated.
However, quite un-impressive, has been the way you so overtly show despise and or hatred for one Jacob Zuma. In this regard, I want to note, that you draw the man’s name at times when there is not a need to do so. I have remained silent to this, but have now decided to voice my disgust and shame at such.
Im most dissapointed because one would expect more from an individual of you calibre and satus.
Further, the constant ‘revolutionary” comments that you seem to hang on to, have rather become a joke.
You bring yourself to come across as a humanitarian who did not like the happenings of apartheid. In this regard, I remind you of your views in as far as an institution like Investec is concerned. However, you make us all doubt this stance of yours when you keep persecuting the name of one person. It then sems as if you have a personal Agenda against the man.
In counclusion, I want to humbly bring you to a reality check. Jacob Zuma is President of the ANC. This means, that he is my president.
However, it almost clear that come the month of May, he will be OUR President. I think it is very critical, that you accept this (as difficult as it may be) now. I urge this upon you, because if you shoud not accept such a reality it will cloud your judgment. You will then fail to recognise the good that will be done by the Zuma administration.
PS. Speculation is for tabloids, not learnered Proffessors of a discipline as disciplined as LAW.
Keep provoking discussion and remember; This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law.
Friend isnt it amazing reading something about SA from a different perspective. Its no less damning than some local papers but the emphasis is just different. Found the comment that Springbok is “half way to Nigeria” a bit strange, but overall, I think he sums up our woes and predicts our future under the Polokwane Pirate quite well. Its scary stuff. We already have a kleptocracy and teh sklope is about to get even more slippery.
As for Ijaji John, I think he’d try anything to delay as long as possible. Seems to be following his mentor’s footsteps… Umshimi Wam bam.
Friend, I live in the UK and most things the Daily Mail says I take with a pinch of salt. However the article you posted is quite accurate…
Big storm clouds on the horizon for South Africa. The ANC does not know how to govern or has any idea of “Rule of Law”
Zimbabwe here we come…
George, you will meet Zimbabwe going the other way! And we will apply very quiet diplomacy to your issues.zzzzzzzzzzz
Spuy @ 7:53am…your post makes no sense whatsoever…
The way I read PdV’s post is “tongue in cheek” – in other words, it’s not seriously PdV’s thoughts (which is made clear through the mention of how preposterous this scenario is – it’ll never happen). The only reason Hlophe would be protected would be if he has some dirt on the Arms Deal which he could be vindictive with, but to my knowledge there has been no indication of this from any quarter.
No, Hlophe will have to face the music on this one on his own. Unfortunately for him, his survival or demise does not directly impact the high-living lives of the esteemed ANC gods, nor does it threaten any of them (like letting Shaik testify would have). These are the politics of our day, this is the ANC-led government’s modus operandi, this is what South Africans think they are worth.
gedeza // Apr 3, 2009 at 11:45 am
…………………………………………………….
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)
gedeza…
you are free to believe whatever you want to. This is a site for the informed. Please if you want to sing the praises of ‘your prez’, spare us the propaganda.
If he becomes prez, I will be for the first time since 1994, embarrassed to talk about our politics. And I say this with a great amount of heaviness in my heart. Because like Tutu, I will ask, what was the Struggle for? Where did it go so wrong?
PdV
“Ozoneblue, I would love for “the truth” about the NPA to come out and for allegations about it to be tested – IN A COURT OF LAW and for this boil to be lanced oonce and for all. In the absence of a finding by a judge we will never know (a) whether Zuma is guilty and (b) whether the NPA was abused. Why are you guys so scared of the courts?”
No you don’t. You told your beloved media just the other day that you think that the apparently concrete evidence that Zuma’s team has obtained to substantiate their claims of a NPA conspiracy against Zuma is illegal and not permissible and in fact can/should lead to criminal charges laid against them.
You can be such a stickler for procedure and technicalities when it suits you. For example : when Zuma’s team challenged the legality of the Scorpions’ search warrants you blamed Zuma for employing “delaying tactics”. You have continuously argued like a legal quack that Zuma should use the courts to in fact invite a trail to show his innocence – with what appears to be a severely compromised prosecuting authority with a political agenda leading the charges against him.
Surely now the NPA should have nothing to hide? Who would lead a public cry-out for a full investigation into a conspiracy to undermine the law and abuse the constitution and the justice system against them, to be fair before the Zuma trail commences ? Is it going to be you PdV ?
[...] up with Hlophe and the JSC is sitting this Saturday morning. Check out this brilliant piece on Constitutionally Speaking for some (not-so-tounge-in-cheek speculation?) about why Hlophe may be trying to delay his hearing [...]
ozoneblue, my position on the search and siezure warrants have been vindicated by the Constitutional Court. I have no doubt my view on the criminality of handing over tapes (if they exist) to a private individual will be confirmed by a court. You just do not like the fact that the law mostly seems to be against “your man”. I note that you have never tried to argue that the evidence against Mr Zuma has been fabricated, nor could you plausibly do so. Maybe you believe like Moe Shaik that in terms of the law Mr Zuma might be guilty of corruption but in the ANC version of ubuntu this must be excused as it was just a friendly arrangement between comrades?
gedeza, thanks for the thoughtful post. My position is NOT based on a hatred or fear of Mr Zuma. I think the article from the Daily Mail provided above is racist and hateful and peddles in middle class prejudice. My consistent position is one of support for THE LAW and the CONSTITUTION. What worries me is that the law and the constitution is being undermined to save one man around whom a dangerous cult of personality is forming and that the effects of this will be to worsen corruption through our society, which in turn will disproportionally affect poor people. I have no doubt that Mr Zuma is a likable man, the kind of person one would like to have a beer with. But I fear that in order to avoid a reckoning with the law he and his supporters are fatally undermining our system of administration.
PdV
“I note that you have never tried to argue that the evidence against Mr Zuma has been fabricated, nor could you plausibly do so.”
Well that was before the hard evidence that the NPA and the Scorpions were indeed compromised by political interference. Perhaps once we have a full investigation into just how much compromised the NPA and the Scorpions were we wiil be able to tell if tampering with evidence could have occurred.
Who knows – Shaik (if he was healthy) could even insist on a retrial ?
but nice of you to evade my question here. Are you going to be advocating in the media and here on your blog that a full investigation into the NPA and the Scorpions should be conducted ? With the same amount of vigor and enthusiasm that you have being focusing on Zuma, defending the “independence” of the NPA, and calling people like me “conspiracy theorists” If not you will confirm my suspicion that you are a coward and a fraud – only bent one abusing the constitution for political point scoring against you idealogical enemies.
Jy weet! I try so hard to fit into your sharp-nose shoes Prof, How exactly, by whom, is the judiciary undermined?? Facts please. From where I m sitting, precisely under the ANC-led gov, the judiciary is more vibrant than ever. Please make us see this ‘threat’ to the judiciary!
Looking at the turn of events – bouts of flu, hiring and firing of lawyers – it would appear Hlophe is stalling the hearing for a reason.
I am afraid Prof, your conspiracy theory, albeit tongue-in-cheek, may not be so unfounded after all.
The Zuma gambit appears to be at work here.
Mmm…let me see…
Prof wrote:
… I would love for “the truth” about the NPA to come out and for allegations about it to be tested – IN A COURT OF LAW and for this boil to be lanced once and for all. In the absence of a finding by a judge we will never know (a) whether Zuma is guilty and (b) whether the NPA was abused. Why are you guys so scared of the courts?”
Oh-zzzz writes:
Perhaps once we have a full investigation into just how much compromised the NPA and the Scorpions were we wiil be able to tell if tampering with evidence could have occurred.
Clearly, the prof wants the matter to go to court, and Oz wants to delay, just like Hlope. Why? Read Squire’s judgement, all 55k words. Why? As if Squire’s judgement vidicates Zuma, and of what?
Please Ozone, argue if you must, but stick to what was given to us through the courts. Stop sleeping. Don’t go off on a tangent, just to silence those doubts you have.
Oh yes, lest I forget, I’m on the market for a wine estate, and a Porsche! Know anyone selling these in a hurry?
00% legal boy!
“Clearly, the prof wants the matter to go to court,”
No he doesn’t. He want”s the NPA tapes to be excluded from the defence on technical grounds.
Actually the tapes incriminate Zuma in illegal spying. So, the prof would want the tapes to be there in court with Zuma.
@gedeza // Apr 3, 2009 at 11:45 am
Did you pass st 6?
@koos // Apr 5, 2009 at 7:58 pm
No, I did not pass st 6. I grew up in the era of Grades Kos, oops I meant Koos. I then matriculated with distinction.
I am not delving into academics here. What does that have to do with anything? I think that was a low blow, which unfortunately( for you) was not low enough. Your country is about to be headed by an individual who did not do st 6.
There is nothing you can do to stop that, or is there?. Tony Leon and I feel that this inst a big issue, maybe you should meet us, then we can have a drink, whilst lecturing you a bit.
Now, here is a bit of advise; post comments that are worthwhile. We are not here to either ridicule or mock each other.
Obviously Hlophe is stalling. Equally obviously, he has no interest in stalling if he wants to have his innocence established speedily. Equally obviously, therefore, he is not innocent.
Therefore, he wants to delay his appearance until the situation is more sympathetic to him. Would Zuma pack the JSC? Of course he would; Zuma is capable of anything. Would Zuma pack the JSC just to help Hlophe? We can’t say for sure.
This is not a conspiracy theory; there is a Zuma conspiracy, obviously. What is written here is simply a contribution to a debate over how far the conspiracy extends.
PvD
You seem to claim that these tapes were illigally acquired by Zuma’s defence. How do you know this? What if NIA handed them over to President Motlanthe, who declassified them & then gave them to JZ’s legal team? Would they still be illegal?
jj
You seem to forget the legal process if the NIA gave them to President Motlanthe then its the presidents duty to hand the full scripts to the NPA directly………inorder to do a full investigation which hasnt been done, once again its bad enough that the NIA is showing Partisan but now the president of south africa must to? that would be the ultimate abuse of power.
sorry your argument simply doesnt fly
JJ, if this happened and the President did not tell us it would be a great scandal. In any case the Rico Act prohibits the handing over of ALL recordings to private individuals – not only those that are classified as secret for security reasons. It is to protect the right to privacy of every citizen – Ngcuka and McCarthy being two of them. Dont you care about the rights of these – only about the rights of the Dear Leader?