President Thabo Mbeki’s speech to the nation tonight was both dignified and Presidential. But as is often the case with his Presidential speeches he did not really say anything new or earth shattering.
However, in an oblique way the speech seemed to reply to his critics and offer a defense of his tenure as President. For me it was telling that the President said that “all our citizens must respect the Rule of Law and Human Rights”. The President also spoke about the need for moral regeneration and the need to respect the value system of ubuntu which means “we must all act in the manner that respect the dignity of every human being”.
This seems like a very vague kind of criticism of Jacob Zuma and some of his supporters and perhaps it expresses – indirectly at least – a view that President Mbeki was not treated fairly by the ANC. It is of course ironic that this was exactly the complaint lodged by Jacob Zuma and his supporters after he was fired by Mbeki and charged by the NPA.
This kind of argument seems to me misplaced and not in line with the principles of openness and accountability. As the Constitutional Court has said before, when a person is accused of wrongdoing his or her dignity will inevitably be affected. No one has a right not to be accused so to argue that everyone must always be treated with dignity can be viewed as a plea for impunity.
When he spoke about the Nicholson judgment it is striking that he prefaced his remarks with the statement that his government has always respected and defended the independence of the judiciary.- even when the executive had strong views about cases.
He also denied that he or the executive had ever interfered with or compromised the rights of the NPA to decide who to prosecute or not to prosecute and categorically stated that this also applied to the “painful matter” of the prosecution of Jacob Zuma. I wonder what the Zuma people will say about that.
Now its all up to how the ‘adults’ in the ANC (especially the NEC) act in relation to future outbursts of Julius Malema and his ‘Youth Brigade’.
I see that Matthews Phosa has said the ANC will announce tomorrow who the acting President will be. Is this not clearly dictated in the constitution? And the ANC keeps reiterating how they respect the law of land.
I hope once the glue that holds the holds the Zuma Camp viz Gttting rid of Mbeki and his cronies, wears off, they will have an Agenda for the government!
Yesterday I watched Elizabeth starring Cate Blanchett! Towards the end the is a line that Elizabeth Said!
“I have rid England off my enemies, what now?”
Lets hope Zuma and His Gang of Worriors know ‘What is next”
I hope once the glue that holds the Zuma Camp viz Getting rid of Mbeki and his cronies, wears off, they will have an Agenda for the government!
Yesterday I watched Elizabeth starring Cate Blanchett! Towards the end there is a line that Elizabeth Said!
“I have rid England off my enemies, what now?”
Lets hope Zuma and His Gang of Worriors know ‘What is next”
“When he spoke about the Nicholson judgment it is striking that he prefaced his remarks with the statement that his government has always respected and defended the independence of the judiciary.- even when the executive had strong views about cases.”
It was a smartly crafted contrast, between the old and the new.
The old: vocal criticism on disagreements, but acceptance of judgment.
The new: open threats and mass protest against the judiciary from the leaders.
To think, it took the US about 200 years to see a President resign, we take less than 20 years (not counting Vorster and Botha due to their illegitimacy).
Amazing stuff, seems kinda surreal.
And I do feel sorry for Thabo (I can call him that now) because he’ll never be remembered for anything but for the reason that he resigned – just like “Tricky Dicky”.
I think his dignified exit creates problems for the new ANC – it is hard to keep on accusing him of being divisive and a problem when he has stepped down just like a disciplined and loyal ANC member do.
It makes the whole excercise look more like a grubby power grab by 250 polokwane delegates. Godzille was on the mark this evening, she said our politics needs to align between those who enjoy the belicose war talk and judiciary/ media threats / scorpions disbanding etc and those who support the constitution. The UDM, ID, IFP and DA all seem to be making similar noises….heres hoping something interesting develops to keep the new ANC in check.
The ANC has taken our vote for granted for far too long now. I just hope the rumors about the Mbeki-supporting faction forming a new party are true. This is what our democracy desperately needs. They will have my support and I hope they put up a good fight in the forthcoming elections to stop the ANC from having a constitution-amending majority in parliament. Such power cannot be left in the hands of the kill-for-Zuma revolutionaries. South Africa is too precious for anarchy.
The gracious exit of Mbeki and his people from parliament will have a far greater impact in me than the Mbeki miscues.
The ANC has taken our vote for granted for far too long now. I just hope the rumors about the Mbeki-supporting faction forming a new party are true. This is what our democracy desperately needs. They will have my support and I hope they put up a good fight in the forthcoming elections to stop the ANC from having a constitution-amending majority in parliament. Such power cannot be left in the hands of the kill-for-Zuma revolutionaries. South Africa is too precious for anarchy.
The gracious exit of Mbeki and his people from parliament will have a far greater impact in me than the Mbeki miscues.
“I have been a loyal member of the African National Congress for 52 years. I remain a member of the ANC and therefore respect its decisions.”
Notice that the ‘loyal member’ part is in the past tense.
On a personal level, I am saddened about the state of our country and I was extremely touched by Mbeki’s speech last night. What has upset me more than anything is that the ANC has put the needs of their party ahead of the needs of the people of this country.
I personally believe that this whole situation has taken place purely as a means to protect their vote at the next election. By leaving Mbeki in place, they would have run the risk of losing the pro-Mbeki vote at the polls in 2009. By taking him out of the picture, they are hoping to eliminate the divide within the party. This entire thing has been party-motivated and I am horrified that the power-mongers have willingly sacrificed the stability of this country to protect their party.
Again, this is purely my personal feelings as a South African.
Khosi – But what about the “I remain a member of the ANC” part? “Have been” does not equal “had been”.
Z – I agree that “It was a smartly crafted contrast, between the old and the new.” Is this ’smartness’ of his perhaps due to his having been educated in the UK?
I just hope whomever is elected today (or tomorow, or within 30 days) will be both able and willing to do what is required of a President of a country, and that he/she will not (like Mbeki) be too busy with foreign affairs to do his/her duty internally in terms of the Constitution and resulting legislation.
Khosi
Unfortunately “I have been a” is present perfect tense, meaning something that happened in the past and continues up to now.
He also says, he “remains” an ANC member. But in terms of language use he did not mention any future state, only past and present, so there is room within his statement to not be an ANC member in future.
He did not say “I will remain a member of the ANC.” Though he might have implied it by just using “remain”.
So purely on grammar on this point, he could not be said to have contridicted himself, whatever he does.
This is democracy at work and should be respected as such by all democrats.
A new party that will split the ANC? I do not think that will materialise but was used as a card by the Mbeki group.
I am waiting anxiously for that presidential pardon. Or maybe they manage it some other way? But if the NPA does not budge…
I am amazed at how many contradictions Duarte and Mantashe are able to navigate through with the press. They are either dishonest or have an immense capacity for appreciating duality. I also noticed how tensely Duarte looked at Mantashe on some of the more difficult questions.
Example:
“For example, the biggest worry for us is the question of the possible reversal of the closure of that judgment,”
This is the reversal of the Zuma judgment. But when prompted he denied that being a reason for them doing what their doing. You don’t act on your biggest worry, but act by some other motivation, which just “happens” to solve that as well?
Another:
Bringing unity in the ANC is said to be their main motivation. When prompted about Mbeki, Mantashe mostly said good things, he did not claim Mbeki to be guilty of anything, but merely that it is the removal of one of the poles of division. So the best way to bring unity, is not to unify, but to remove? Unless one of the poles is divisive, which as mentioned, he denies.
I was equally amazed at how many controversies regarding Mbete I missed as they presented a whole list on SABC news. There are just too many controversies surrounding many in this new guard.
Good speech. In spite of myself I felt sorry for Thabo. For about 5 minutes.
Count Otto von Bismark has departed, I wonder who will fill his big shoes that he is leaving behind…
The worst mistake ANC NEC will make will be to push Mbeki completely out of the picture. It is a public secret that Mbeki was more of an economist than a politician. However, this makes him more of an asset behind the scenes instead of completely out of the picture.
If the accusations of him being autocratic are true, then it would be disappointing indeed. But, we cannot run away from the obvious truth that it will take some time, having regard to the current ANC NEC, to find a leader who will match up the intellectual capacity of Mbeki, let alone surpass it.
One, can only hope that the said leader will be found sooner rather than later. I, for one, cannot wait to find that leader.
PS: It is also very good that we do not directly elect our President like in the United States because when you look at the voting majority, we would be seeing the likes of Mandoza, Mzeke-zeke, Sbu, etc. as our Presidents. Who said that Arnold Schwatznegger cannot be President one day after his success in the movies…
“I have been a loyal member of the ANC for 52 years and will remain a member of the ANC” (past,present &future)?perhaps.
Just signifies to my mind that this is by no means the end of Mr Mbeki.
Sings of split in ANC in the not to distant future. Zuma`s coup has been successful but he will have to honor the demands whims and fancies of those that have advanced his interests @ this juncture of his career. That was the end of the queries into the arms deal & the prosecution process of zuma.
Mr sheik will eventually get his presidential pardon.
Sne says:”It is also very good that we do not directly elect our President like in the United States because when you look at the voting majority, we would be seeing the likes of Mandoza, Mzeke-zeke, Sbu, etc. as our Presidents. Who said that Arnold Schwatznegger cannot be President one day after his success in the movies…”
For one thing Sne, Schwarzenegger cannot be President of these USA because he was not born here. Secondly, South Africa could have characters worse than Mandoza. Next year we could have a man who has been exposed as corrupt, made bad choices, flip-flops on policy issues, and has made some bad judgments as a president of the most important country in Africa. And in not too distant a future we could have Julius Malema at the Union buildings. So be careful what you wish for.
Sne
“The worst mistake ANC NEC will make will be to push Mbeki completely out of the picture.”
I cannot see it play out differently, no matter what Mantashe wants us to believe, Zuma’s application made inferences that Mbeki plotted against him, hence Nicholson’s judgment. They believe that to be true.
And on top of this they have clearly shown that unifying Mbeki and Zuma is not their solution to the division.
We can say what we want about ANCYL, but though they lack political sensitivity and keep running their mouths, they have at times been shown to have aligned views. Some of their sentiments have not been too far off from what broods in the higher echelons.
They started talk of anti-revolutionaries before Matashe did. They said Mbeki IS gone, before the deal was done. Malema stated at the Zuma court appearance that it was Mbeki’s fault. Where are the young ones taking their cue from? Malema doesn’t strike me as a particularly original thinker.
z // Sep 22, 2008 at 10:01 am
“Malema doesn’t strike me as a particularly original thinker.”
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Relax, we will be sparred the Malema rhetorics, I hope, as soon as he has a government post in 2009. He will be as quiet as a mouse…
Mbazima Shilowa was as vocal as Malema and Vavi until elected, no! make that appointed, as Premier…
z, anon
One quality about TM is his exceptional use of language
Yes the ‘have been’ is present perfect. But he used it to describe his experience, which is a representation of the past. Notice that in the first sentence he uses ‘have been a loyal member’. In the second he says ‘remain a member’. Crucially ‘loyal’ has been left in the past because in the present he is just ‘a member’.
Here is an example. I HAVE BEEN been to Valencia. It means I am not there any more.
I think he ingeniously used the ‘I remain a member’ part to highlight that ‘loyal’ is not part of the present. Even in that sentence, there is no continuity, it is just the present.
Khosi
I’m sure someone will soon post some derogatory something, about our little language discussion. (:
The loyal being dropped from the “remain” would have been less interesting were it not a TM speech. He loves the use of repetitive language constructs for emphasis. I would have expected him to say “I have been a loyal member, I remain a loyal member.”
I admit it’s a lot of conjecture.
I am a Zimbabwean and naturally hate the guy for supporting Bob. But I know deep down that ANC has made a huge mistake based on its pursuit of a Zuma presidency. The same things they detest in Mbeki are things they have shown a soft spot for. How do you get Zuma off the hook without interferring with NPA?
It was a sad day for me to see a mob get its way in the name of democracy!
All this means is that the “Exiles” are out like they suppose to be. And the true liberators (the real struggle cadres) will rule!!
Harold,
Just hope the true liberators will value liberty!
The ruling party better get out of the liberation mentality for now its not yet time for the peanut gallery (anc alliances) to rule the nation. Wait till after 2010!
The ruling party better get out of the liberation mentality for now its not yet time for the peanut gallery (anc alliances) to rule the nation. Wait till after 2010!
Hope public confidence in the justice system can be restored and valued!
Although , I fully support the ANC NEC decision, but it was so painful to see him leaving the Union Buildings so badly..But anyway Mbeki is the one who created this situation..he should have left the Parliament after Polokwane!!!
Samaita // Sep 22, 2008 at 10:52 am
“…hate the guy for supporting Bob.”
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Are you sure your tense is correct? If yes, does the sentence mean you still believe Mbeki supported Bob? If yes, on what basis are you saying that?
PS: I am so looking forward to your response…
Victor Mahlangu // Sep 22, 2008 at 11:55 am
“But anyway Mbeki is the one who created this situation..”
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John Grogan in his book, Workplace Law, 7th Edition, 2003, Juta Law, calls workers who strike without complying with the legal requirements, as “architects of their own misfortune..”
I suppose Mbeki deserves to be called an architect of his own misfortune… Sad, but true…
Sne,
The tense is correct in that the hate is continuing.
He indeed supported Bob. He tried to keep Zanu PF in power until it became just too difficult. Even then, he even wrote a document leaked a few months bank as early as 2002 advising Zanu Pf on what to do to get back people’s support. He suppressed the Moseneke/Khampepe Report on the 2002 elections. The report categorically stated that the election was not free and fair-contrary to what the SA observers led by Phumzile said. I recall Madladlana saying on arrival that conditions existed for a free and fair election before he had even checked into his hotel!
Want some more?
Maybe we will see the report from his 6 generals on the violence after the 29 March elections now that he has left the Union Buildings!
I have just read on News.24 that Motlanthe is being dubbed the new President, after a meeting of the ANC. Surely, that would require that the Deputy President would need to be “unavailable” for office? Or can they just decide by themselves?
I’m won’t be surprised if they find some “party way” of getting what they want. They got the president out, what’s a deputy? Constitutional requirements can probably be met in some way by “recalling” and “appointing”, as long as no one tries to be dissident.
Samantha,
This is quite funny. Will Montlanthe then abdicate next year for JZ? Or he might find the throne too comfy! They must just put JZ in and let everyone get on with their lives!
Samaita // Sep 22, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“… even wrote a document leaked a few months bank as early as 2002 advising Zanu Pf on what to do to get back people’s support…”
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I read the document and I dispute your interpretation of it. However, that is besides the point…
What was needed in Zimbabwe was a political solution to her problems. Mbeki has managed to foster an agreement between the parties devoid of her (Zimbabwe) being engaged in a fratricidal (civil) war. Without disputing or assuming to be true your allegations on the state of affairs in Zimbabwe, I must hasten to say that no declaration of elections to be not free and fair would have resulted in a solution to the Zimbabwean problems.
It is lamantable that there are Zimbabweans like you who are in the comfort of South Africa and are throwing stones to the efforts of Mbeki et al in respect of the Zimbabwean woes for which he, and South Africa, is not responsible. Instead of throwing stones at Mbeki and his mediation efforts you should be thanking him for the role he played in sorting out your mess.
The politically immature leader of the MDC is the one who delayed the negotiations on Zimbabwe by negotiating in the media and not on the table where he was needed the most. That intellectual midget called Morgan caused the reported brutalisation of the Zimbabwean people by playing the delay tactics instead of negotiating. You should be blaming him and not Mbeki…
I am not in the comfort of SA.
Secondly, Mbeki protected Mugabe over the years and the deal you refer to is yet to work. Maybe spare the commendations for now. My opinion is in fact a majority one in Zimbabwe.
All I can say is, thanks God for answering our prayers.
Let’s the real thing begins.
I said this before and I still say it. People should stop running government offices as kingdom.
If you don’t perform GO OUT, these are public offices, let people on the street run them, you don’t need to be UK educated to run the country any guy (with natural leadership qualities can run and should run the government)
@ Sne
I will agree with you on one point, Mbeki did a good job, getting the two parties to sign the seemingly “dead” agreement, i for one appreciate his work. Even across the rest of the continent.
However you are wrong in labelling Morgan an intellectual midget. The reason why he delayed scrolling his signature on that “dead” agreement was a political move, not an act of immaturity. He should be rather praised for getting mad Bob to reliquish some of his executive powers.
You cannot blame Morgan for the slaughtering of his supporters by Bob’s militants, that is clearly wrong.
Who is the victim here, who caused all of this mess in the first place?
Thanks for the unceremonial exit of the long 14 years of Xhosa kingdom.
The Xhosa kingdom is finished, may be we would start to hear other poeple’s surnames in parliament.
They have been running government as a kingdom. They could have foreseen that the masses are not happy about that Xhosa government saga.
Anyone can be removed anytime from a government office.
Let’s the real development begins. Thanks.
Thanks VoVo. I had ignored that bit. It is hard to understand how Sne can talk about Mbeki’s efforts over 8 years and then blame MT for not signing quickly a deal that was only put on the table after 8 years!
Samaita // Sep 22, 2008 at 2:33 pm
VoVo // Sep 22, 2008 at 2:15 pm
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I am glad we agree on one crucial point that Mbeki does not deserve Samaita’s hatred for the role he played in Zimbabwe.
To amplify this point, Zimbabwe is a sovereign state and a member nation of SADC. This means that she is not a South African Protectorate or colony and therefore the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights of 1948 gives her self-determination and enjoins other nations to respect her territorial inviolability and respect for her right to determine her domestic policy. I will not mention other international and African instruments which amplify the above.
This means therefore that the parties involved had to
find a political solution (or rely on USA to bombard Zimbabwe under the pretext of human rights violation which unfortunately could not happen as the USA had nothing to gain therefrom unlike from the Iraqian oil…)
Great analysis,
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/zukilemajova/2008/09/22/mbeki-the-last-of-a-dying-breed/
Lindelani now its not about tribe ,competence count.
You are the threat to democracy……..
Ntanjana,
So now you see democracy?
This is what TM really wanted to say:
“I have been a loyal member of the ANC for 52 years, and this is the thanks I get. I didn’t resign, I was axed. Oh, the humiliation. I am now a bitter man. As for any support from me in the future, don’t count on it.”
Now it is time for the black man to rule. For whites the honeymoon is over.
@ Andrea Becker
It might be the beginning,for the BLACK honeymooners.
Well said Sne. As a Zimbabwean i could’nt have said it better. The reason he accepts the NEC decision, inter alia, is that he really knows that the deal signed in Zim is going to fail. Similar as to his other African moves-like NEPAD. TM should not/never be viewed as a hero. He only inherited a well functioning system.
ANC problems are sorted by ANC.Zimbambwean problems are sorted by them.Is this not a lesson Mbeki teaches? By bowing out he walked the talk, big up to him.
I agree with you, Khosi, it was a great analysis. I also agree with one of the commentator’s sentiments though, in which he mentions some of TM’s shortcommings.