Constitutional Hill

The Spear asks many questions, also about our view of human dignity

The Spear – as I have written before – has become about far more than about whether a painting resembling President Jacob Zuma with his penis hanging out should be banned because it humiliates Zuma, his many wives and children as well as  affronts the dignity of all black men (even those who do not object to the painting) and at a push even black women, or whether it should be protected as a work of artistic expression (albeit a puerile and derivative work of art) at all cost.

Having an intelligent, robust, nuanced, level-headed and sensitive discussion about some of the issues raised by the painting (and publication of it in City Press) has become almost impossible.

Demagogues and populists – with one eye on the ANC elective conference coming up in Mangaung – have shamelessly punted the argument that one’s view of this painting will immediately tell everyone – but especially “patriotic citizens” (often conflated with slavish supporters of the President and the faction inside the ANC he sometimes leads) – whether one deserves to be stoned to death or whether one is worthy of being awarded a government tender or a job as Police Commissioner as a true and trusted supporter of the so called National Democratic Revolution.

Others have argued with considerable vehemence and sometimes startling venom, that if one asks questions about the racial tropes informing the painting or if one questions the wisdom and humanity of the artist because he painted a picture which can be interpreted as playing into stereotypes beloved by white racists, a painting which invests the black phallus with the patriarchal power which makes its exposure so humiliating to some, then one must be an enemy of freedom and liberty and a traitor to the principled of artistic freedom.

This morning Young Communist League National Secretary Buti Manamela said that if the Goodman Gallery does not remove all the “insulting work” from the gallery (including, one presumes, all the work mercilessly mocking the Shivas Regal Communism of his boss – one Blade Nzimande – and the tenderpreneurial thieves protected by party connections) they will close down the gallery. Gwede Mantashe, invoking a non-existent bogeyman and deploying the Stalinist rhetoric of a true anti-democrat stated that “there is a strong liberal offensive against the revolution”, meaning, one assumes, that less and less South Africans want to vote for the ANC and that they, along with anyone criticising the ANC or opposing it, also oppose the revolution and hence is the enemy that must be crushed by any means necessary. Cosatu’s Sdumo Dlamini claimed that The Spear is about people who are opposed to ANC majority rule, as if it was illegitimate to be critical of or to oppose the governing party of the day who was, after all, merely elected for a five year term and could be voted out of government at the next election if the voters decided they have had enough of the greedy kleptocrats.

How does one sensitively discuss the pain and the hurt of Advocate Gcina Malindi who burst into tears in court while arguing Zuma’s case (as well as the painful feelings of many others), in this anti-intellectual, anti-democratic, race-baiting, Jacobin atmosphere whipped up by deeply irresponsible politicians hoping to skim off some fat when Zuma is elected for a second term as ANC President later this year?

How does one engage with the many other questions raised by the work of art in such an atmosphere in which the very idea of engagement, discussion and respect for different views has been rejected as part of a liberal plot against the revolution (a revolution long since sold down the drain by the current leadership of the ANC and the SACP)?

And there are so many questions raised by this work of art. Here are some of them:

Was this painting any good as a work of art or not; did it denigrate Zuma, given his own patriarchal flaunting of his own sexuality; should humiliation of a politician through art ever be celebrated or should it always be condemned and does it make a difference who the politician is; should the right to freedom of artistic expression be balanced against the right of human dignity and if so to what extent; given our history, will the depiction of a black man with his genitals hanging out necessarily evoke feelings of humiliation and anger in some people; do responses to the painting illustrate that a majority of South Africans are prudish, angry, bigoted or even that they harbour racist, sexists and disturbingly anti-democratic views; is the painting being used to enforce the notion that it is illegitimate to criticise the ANC and its leaders as the only legitimate representative of the oppressed; can or should the humiliation of one person ever be viewed as being visited on all persons who share that person’s race and if so, does this view not follow the logic of apartheid which visited the sins of one black person on all black South Africans?

And still some other questions tumble out and over each other to remind us that life is not neat and that the black and white positions taken by the supposed moralists can often seem rather immoral and laughably simplistic.

Would Steve Biko have felt humiliated by the painting and if not, would this have been because he would not have bestowed the power on the (white) artist to determine (once again) how he, Steve Biko, should feel about who he is as a human being; is a culture of law, erudition and civility at all possible in South Africa, given the anti-intellectual attitude of many of our leaders, the dysfunctional nature of our education system and the utter degradation of urban public life in our country; and finally, will most of our leaders and the vast majority of South Africans ever accept the notion that our Constitution demands from us something very difficult, something hard and painful, something counter-intuitive, something brave, namely to accept the rights of others to express themselves, to write rude poetry and paint offensive pictures and to write rude and disrespectful books, no matter how insensitive or hurtful we may find these works of art because the Constitution assumes that we have an inherent human dignity, a dignity that no one can rob us of unless they deny us the right to think for ourselves and to feel real emotions and to make our own choices about what to think, and about who we are, and about who we wish to become.

In an arresting and prescient article currently doing the rounds on Twitter (written by Achille Mbembe in 2006 as the Zuma Tsunami was gathering force), the Cameroonian intellectual warned against the dangers brought about by the Zuma-supporting “marriage of millenarianism, nativist revivalism and politics”, which for a long time was the backbone of white supremacy in this country. “The emergence, now, of a ‘democratic mob’,” wrote Mbembe, “led by self-appointed champions of the poor who claim to speak for the ‘common man’ is itself the result of recent seismic shifts in the realm of South African political culture”.

All South Africans – including those who deny the continued existence of white privilege while smugly pointing disapproving and judgmental fingers at the ANC without seeing the need to do any introspection and those exploiting the racial fault lines for short term intra-party election purposes – would do well to read Mbembe’s searingly honest piece in which he warns us, it seems to me, against the dangers of not thinking for ourselves and of closing down debate and contestation and artistic expression because it is potentially difficult and hurtful – all in the name of some form of perverted, dignity-denying, notion of racial solidarity.

Even more dangerous is the shift away from the project of non-racialism to a re-segregation of the public sphere. To the continuing denial of white privilege, many blacks are responding with an exacerbated sense of victimisation and disempowerment. In the name of the “right to self-definition”, they are paradoxically recreating and consolidating the mental ghetto – a lethal device white rule so effectively used in order to inflict on them maximum psychic damage during the times of bondage…

Having lost political power, many whites have retreated into safe enclaves, hoping to one day leave for Australia instead of fully exercising their citizenship and creatively renegotiating the terms of their belonging to the new nation. Further evidence of nativist reassertion are the on-going controversies concerning the use of Afrikaans at the university of Stellenbosch and the opposition, including among white liberals, to any kind of economic redress after so many centuries of looting, exploitation and theft…

If, historically, white nativism has always been about racial supremacy and the defence of immoral privilege, black nativism has always been a by-product of dispossession. As a form of cultural and political protest, the task of nativism is generally to create a common language of grievance. Because nativism is never attached to any concrete social or political programme of reform, it can never be a progressive force. In practice, it always tends to repeat the sorry history it pretends to redress. A real danger for South Africa today is that the country may be sliding back into a situation where, once again, the language of racial destiny becomes so all-encompassing as to render impossible other ways of connecting the various fragments of the nation.

How then do we talk about The Spear at all in this climate of rage and fear which demands absolute loyalty to the group and an abdication of human agency in favour of a narrow self-serving solidarity? How do we talk about the manner in which it is being used and exploited by shameless politicians, yes, but also about the need to show respect and understanding for the deeply embedded memories and feelings of apartheid generated humiliation and grievance, without trading in our hard-won freedom for a version of conformity enforced on us by some ANC leaders or populist rabble-rousers masquerading as communists?

How does one listen to and demonstrate respect for the genuine feelings of fellow South Africans without succumbing to the Jacobins? How do we vigorously defend the right to freedom of expression and artistic freedom, the right to think and feel what we want and to express those feelings and thoughts in the most robust and even rude forms, the right not to have to conform to the official ANC-enforced view about a painting just because one is black and thus expected to show solidarity with the philanderer from Nkandla or just because one is white and is supposed to be fearful of being branded a racist or is supposed to keep a patronising yet smug silence – a la Samantha Vice?

I would suggest that perhaps one may start by engaging in a robust and honest discussion about the nature of human dignity, which is a value running like a golden thread through our Constitution and underpin most if not all the rights protected in it and is also a right protected by section 10 of that Constitution. In my view (set out in a rather simplistic manner in the short space available here), the concept of human dignity is much abused.

I would contend that dignity is based on the assumption that humans have an intrinsic moral worth. They have this worth – and therefore have dignity – because they are rational agents. In other words, we have dignity because we are free agents capable of making our own decisions, setting our own goals, and guiding our own conduct by reason. One treats somebody else with dignity if one does not treat that person as a means to an end. In one understanding of dignity, one I favour, what is required of all of us when we are called upon to respect the human dignity of others is not that we always need to act selflessly and with a morbid and obsequies respect for the personal feelings of others. Rather, we are called upon to respect others enough to treat them as human beings who are capable of rational thought and reasoning. Thus we may never manipulate people, or use them to achieve our purposes, no matter how good those purposes may be.

At the evil heart of apartheid was the racist belief that black people did not possess the same ability as whites to be rational beings, capable of robust rational engagements, capable of making up their own minds of what to think, how to live and what actions to take. In a world that truly respects the human dignity of all, what is therefore required is NOT a censoring of ideas, of art, of books because they might hurt us or threaten our sense of worth, but rather what is required is to allow the flourishing of a million ideas, of modes of artistic expression, of thoughts and beliefs and arguments and aesthetic representations – exactly because it is assumed that because we possess an inherent human dignity we will be able to engage rationally with these ideas and modes of expression and that – no matter what ideas might be expressed or what aesthetic representations we might be exposed to, it will not have the ability to rob us of our humanness – our ability to engage with the world rationally.

That is why freedom of expression is such an important and valuable right. If we endorse the policing of the thoughts and actions of individuals and the imaginations of artists and poets, we strike at the very heart of what it means to be human and at the protection of human dignity.

  • Vuyo

    This whole issue is a famous victory for forces of reaction. How will the ANC again, for example, be able to argue for diversity of views in the media, etc, without attracting murmurs about hypocrisy? Also, racist attitudes (mainly of reactionaries) will simply go underground. The enemies of progress will thus be safe from prying eyes (similar art could not be eradicated during apartheid so it is likely in future to proliferate with the targets being blacks or black governance). Never in history has a political party with such overwhelming electoral support and legitimacy squandered it all in defense of one compromised man.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ PdV

    I hope you have followed City Press and others and put the presidential spear down.

  • Mpush

    “Thus we may never manipulate people, or use them to achieve our purposes, no matter how good those purposes may be.”

    What then would you call artistic expression if not a manipulation of others to see the world through our eyes. No matter how good the purpose is does not include when the purpose is an expression of one’s view through art?

    Artistic expression is also bound by all our need to exercise our freedom responsibly. Period!

  • Vuyo

    Ironically, the secretary of the Young Communist League was bold to state that the march to Pretoria pursuit of economic freedom was of no value yet is himself marching pointlessly in furtherance of the negation of the freedom of expression that is one of the most powerful weapons in the fight of workers against capitalist oppression. Also, the failure to enquire how it is possible for works of Murray to elicit such great commercial value and exposure whereas the work of an African artist of a similar nature elicited scant recognition (either commercially or otherwise), not to mention the hypocrisy of the ANC’s silence (in regard to the latter African’s work) when the late racist and enemy of freedom, Terreblanche, and Arch. Desmond Tutu are depicted naked. Not to mention the indignity visited upon the millions of poor who are not worth a march against the poor that be or capitalists who exploit them such as the officers of Tiger Brands (a company for which the spokesperson of government was director at all relevant times!). This all is reflective of the degeneration of a progressive force to the right of even the DA (at least they are consistent in conveying their noxious ideology).

  • Vuyo

    Andile is certainly correct about Advocate Malindi’s tears in court.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/columnists/2012/05/29/murray-s-spear-exposed-anc-s-inability-to-deal-with-racism

    It is unacceptable to hide behind apartheid when faced with the results of ones incompetence. The ANC’s racialist argument was incompetent and unsubstantiated and he ought to have had the bravery and skill to have advised his client accordingly. By failing to do so, he has helped ensure another adverse judgment against the ANC. When history judges the ANC this court judgment will be evidence of the apparent disreputable nature of the ANC; further tilting the balance of history’s judgment away from the good and great of the ANC. What is needed in this country is a radical formation or formations that are openly socialist and are intent on rigorous action towards dismantling the economic basis of all our inequities (including through nationalization of mines, banks, and all private means of production). Only then will there be dignity for the Africans. Marching I n favour of censorship is nothing but open flirtation with regression, regressives and other similar ogres.

  • Mike

    @ VUYO – You are an example of exactly what PDV is talking about because you revert to labeling people.As I said in previous blog you cant debate a position without resorting to labling people and in particular the DA.
    Who says the left is better than the right,how many people died under Mao,Pol Pot and Stalins ideology compared to the citizens of countries in the West.
    Brett Murray’s painting was unknown until the City Press published it but here we go again how the black painters work is not valued but the white painter is.
    The ANC has promotes racisim on a daily basis and you have only been to happy to drink from that cup.

  • Kubane

    The questions raised by this filth could have been done in other ways as with the other pictures in this collection. We have to come to an agreement that there will be no rational debate as relates to the Spear. Nothing will convince me that I have been insulted by this filth and for me this is more about Zuma. It always angers me that whites are sensitive to Jews & to some extent Muslims but blacks are fair game and then we demand rational debate. How do we have a rational debate with those who insult us, why should it not be enough to accept that ‘your actions offend and insult me’ why do we have to explain why we are insulted or as others say why not march against corruption and poverty? We have a right to decide what fights we want to pick and when. I agree that politicians have no protection against being ridiculed that is why I do not recall a match against Zapiro’s shower or rape of lady justice. With our history ppl shud be sensitive and that does not mean they cannot exercise their freedoms. Exercising once right becomes a problem when such right being exercised tramples the rights of others and it is not fine that other black people agree with this filth, fact is black people have not all always agreed on issues, even in the days of apartheid there were blacks who supported apartheid shud we therefore say the struggle was not justified? Surely not. What has brought matters to this point is that those who support this ‘art’ did not take ‘our’ objections seriously and as with many things there is always the STREETS which we will resort to when we are not being listened to.
    I do not really know how this rational debate is or will ever take place.

  • Vuyo

    @Mike,
    I do not subscribe to PdV’s or your views regarding expression and neither have I tried to force you to adhere to my norms in this regard. In the instances when I’ve engaged you I have sought only specificity regarding your complaint about any one of my contentions. It applies to my earlier posts. It’s incontrovertible facts, which all can proven scientifically that, firstly, the ANC is increasingly right-wing, secondly, that the SACP is a fake/degenerate Marxist party, thirdly, that capitalism is a putrid and evil system, fourthly, that those who promote capitalism are therefore agents of rot and evil, fifthly, that racism and all discriminations (including sex, sexual orientation, etc) are a product of at least capitalism or its more base predecessor systems, sixthly, that the ANC’s response to the Spear was unprincipled, seventhly, that you cannot reasonably rely on culture to justify censorship, eighthly, that the commercial success of the Spear relative Mabulu’s Ngcono ihlwempu kunesibhanxa sesityebi is a result of the inequities caused by capitalism, ninthly, that apartheid was a product of capitalism, tenthly, that Zuma is the death of the ANC and thus serves the course of reactionaries, eleventhly, that Ferial Haffajee has destroyed the City Press, made a typical (but wrong) decision by withdrawing the picture (based in particular on her ridiculous arguments for doing so) and is a reactionary agent of capitalists who have absolutely no care for the populace of this country, white or black, twelfthly, that Murray was well entitled to publish his work regardless our opinion of it, thirteenthly, that this whole Spear controversy will result in hardships for the poor and not the rich, fourteenthly, that communism of the Anarcho-Marxist type is wholly good relative to capitalism and other alternatives, etc. I therefore believe that you are wrong to accuse me of labeling anybody without a modicum of basis. And again, please note that, Moa, Pol Pot, (Blade Nzimande) and Stalin and company may have called themselves communists but certainly did not act in congruence with principles of communism nor were their respective systems anything near communism. And yes, it’s a fact that white artists command better prices for their art (regardless the quality) than black artists. It is simply a way of life in South Africa, whites earn more for the same things than blacks (ask the Institute of Race Relations or Solidarity Union).

  • spoiler

    “I would contend that dignity is based on the assumption that humans have an intrinsic moral worth. They have this worth – and therefore have dignity – because they are rational agents. In other words, we have dignity because we are free agents capable of making our own decisions, setting our own goals, and guiding our own conduct by reason.”

    Well in theory, buit in practice, humans are more often than not, not very reasonable and morally worthy, quite the opposite in fact.

  • Gwebecimele

    It is that time of the year again for our yearly dose of Nelson Mandela to keep us numb for a while. There are many events being planned for his birthday. No doubt that even the anger of the spear will be cured by this yearly dose.

  • John Roberts

    @Kubane

    What about the rights of the Khoisan people that you trampled on all those years ago when you stole their land and killed their families ?
    Selective memory ?

    You’re a classic example of why Africa is where it is (i.e. nowhere)
    You talk of the painting as filth. If you want to see filth then go look in the lolly lounges in your own backyards where underteeen girls are abused daily by Zuma supporters.

  • Lars

    The Constitution is the Spear of every Democratic Nation

    After having watched the discussion about Brett Murray’s “Spear of the Nation” painting and the following lawsuit during the last days, I want to add some thoughts from the perspective of a German law professional who did a lot of research in the field of constitutional law within the last years.
    As the South African and the German Constitution are not only similarly structured concerning the freedom of art and opinion and the protection against defamation, but also both face the problem of dealing with the burden of the past, a comparative reflection could create some new insights.

    As both the terms of art and artistic creativity are as such ambiguous and undefined legal terms, a legal definition is needed to make them manageable in juristic decisions.
    In general, there are two ways to approach this problem, a narrow definition and therefore an even narrow scope of protection or wide definition and a wide scope of protection.
    Regarding the general purpose of a constitution to grant the bearer of a fundamental right this right as intensely as possible, a wide definition is preferable. Otherwise certain uses of a freedom are per se excluded from the scope of protection and therefore are not able to be justified under the constitution. In that case one does not even get to the point to weigh different rights, but ban certain behavior right from the beginning. Naturally it is not easy to find a definition for art.
    Traditionally in Germany the Constitutional Court used a classic term of art, meaning, art is everything that is produced according to standards of traditional artwork like painting, sculpting, etc.
    More and more the necessity developed to find another definition of art that also allows new forms of modern art to be protected under the constitution. As a consequence, art by now is seen as such, if the artists itself proclaims it to be art. This expression of the principle of the self-understanding of the right holder leads to the widest thinkable scope of protection.
    The South African provision seems to lead into the same direction only by its wording, as it protects not (the piece of) art, but artistic creativity.

    To keep a long story short, from a constitutional point of view, it can’t be disputed that the painting in question is art (under any possible definition) and therefore it is constitutionally protected.

    The only remaining question is, if the limits of the freedom stated apply and therefore exclude the constitutional protection in the single case.
    The first question is, if we have it to do with “advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm”.
    The wording of the constitution itself shows that the conditions are detailed and can’t be reduced to the simple question, if the painting or the painter can be classified as “racist”.
    Again the problem occurs, how to define such a term, as naturally it is in the eye of the beholder at first, if he sees a piece of art in such a way. On the other hand judicial decisions can’t depend on the point of view of different majorities in each case, but must make the term manageable to be able to guarantee stable and just decisions.

    The German Constitutional Court therefore developed for the freedom of expression a – in my eyes generalisable – principle of reciprocity that states that the classification of a certain expression of opinion must be made in the light of the freedom itself. That leads to the consequence that you can only classify an expression of opinion as limited, if there is no way of reasonable understanding that would lead to constitutional protection.

    Here, the painting can easily be seen as criticism of a political leadership or the whole political class in the form of art and therefore as an undoubtedly important and explicitly protected area of the freedom of art as a democratic fundamental right. It can’t be justified to see the only possible understanding of the painting as an advocacy of hatred not to talk about the next requirement that constitutes incitement to cause harm.

    On the other hand I totally agree with Pierre De Vos’ statement concerning the right to dignity.
    More precisely we are talking here about the right to personal honour (as a part of the human dignity) than about dignity, meaning a case where a human being is made a sheer object and deprived of his quality as a human as such.

    It can indeed be doubted that the painting in question violates the rights of personal honour of Jacob Zuma. And only he himself as a natural person can claim a violation of his rights, as there obviously is no constitutional right which protects the office of the President of the ANC or the RSA against criticism.
    Here again the question has to be, if the only reasonable understanding of the painting can lead to an infringement of the personal honour of Jacob Zuma. The first question should be: Is it a portrait or is it an objectivated depiction of a public figure, which in my eyes is most likely.

    The real problem seems to me that most of the statements by politicians within the discussion seem to be unconstitutional, as they indeed seem to violate the limitations of the Constitution and meet the definition of advocacy of hatred.
    Pierre De Vos is absolutely right, living under a Democratic Constitution also means to be able to stand situations where other people are exercising their Constitutional rights, if one likes it or not!

  • Ze Philosopher

    We all know that dignity is a right and value, it’s an intrinsic quality that can never be separated from other essential aspects of human person. In this case, Zuma to me is that guy who took a shower after having had unprotected sex with a HIV+ woman who happens to be a friend’s daughter; fathered a child with another friend’s daughter-African reality check-He’s perceived as their father. Where’s the reality in that? He’s the guy who made silly comments about shower minimizing infection and as a leader misleading the nation like a certain Tshabalala-Msimang and her rhetoric garlic ill conceived ideas. Where’s the dignity in that? I could go on and on about him, but the bottom line is; we as Africans should fight this existing mentality that as blacks we are less of humans, that we are indemnified from being criticised, but rather take pride in our blackness. Change can only come from us, that would mean taking kindly to criticism so we could give way to psychological transformation in the mind. As for Malindi, it’s not a first for him crying in court, he was accused No5 in the Delmas 22; he cried when sentenced. ANC should seek real black participation in developing our country’s democracy and stop racializing everything.@Kubane, I would like to think people who react like you are bit confused unless you promote what Zuma has done in the past. That picture depicts Zuma and not every African man like Mandela, Gwame Nkurumah, O R Tambo, Steve Biko, myself and Vuyo included. We should start being objective and rational about such issues. Let not our reaction cloud our judgment and reasoning, but our intellectual capacity as man frstly and black man after guide us. If we continue with this reactionary behaviour, we endanger the hard fought freedom our forefathers died for, we should encourage debate at all times.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Kubane

    “why should it not be enough to accept that ‘your actions offend and insult me’ ”

    Kubane is right. Just the other day, some guy told an inter-racial couple that he was offended by the fact that they were walking arm-in-arm in Eastgate mall. Guess how the couple responded to the angry bigot? They said: “We accept that our actions offend you, and it is not for us to ask why.”

    The couple then walked on — but keeping a safe distance from each other. And all was peaceful.

  • sirjay jonson

    Do I note a tone Prof of sarcasm inflamed by justifiable frustration?

    … ‘racial tropes informing the painting’… you know very well its about the man and the ANC, nothing to do with black or white. Its entirely political. Why can we not criticize, satirize, reveal dishonesty without being labelled racist.

    This is not a win/win situation, seems more likely a lose/lose moment, and its certainly not a win/lose for any winner. Time will tell. My response; its all very childish, the whole affair; this in respect of the multitude, or is that the majority, of responses, and the capitulation responses as well. Is that patronizing of me. I don’t think so. Childish behavior is just that, childish, and we all are guilty of it on certain emotional and unexpected occasions.

    Pity the Spear just makes everything worse. Are we at bottom yet? Fortunately I’m still laughing. The devil in it all keeps me chuckling.

    And have you noticed, the smeared picture of JZ now looks just like that rascal… the Devil. Apologies for my ongoing laughter, dear South Africa.

  • Gwebecimele
  • sirjay jonson

    Vuyo
    May 29, 2012 at 16:32 pm

    Are you aware there was a strike at Tiger Brands today, at Ashton?

  • khosi

    I miss Letters from the President.

  • sirjay jonson

    I note little has been said, that in the Goodman Gallery Window was the following:

    ‘We respect your right to protest’, or words to that effect. Sort of says it all about the different cultures of South Africa.

  • zdenekv

    First of all, Pierre, dignity you are talking about has come to us from Kant ; your characterization of the notion is completely derived from how he understands this idea. Notice that this gives us a univeralist and objectivist ethics in which moral value resides in this capacity for practical reason that all person ( all members of kingdom of ends ) possess.

    But this whole approach is incompatible with your endorsement of moral relativism that you parade here , so that is one thing ( when it suits you you help your self to taking morality seriously and when it does not you adopt Rorty’s stance ; this seems confused ).

    Secondly, this sort of Kantianism has been developed recently by Rawls in his TJ and of course he is a liberal . So what you are endorsing, without seemingly noticing this upshot, is a piece of colonial ideology called liberalism.

    I am not saying that this type of liberalism and the moral outlook that goes with it cannot be defended , it can. My point is that this type of liberalism is clearly incompatible with your claim that moral values are relative to ideology , culture or discourse.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “given the anti-intellectual attitude of many of our leaders,”

    LOL. Not to mention many of our dumber academics especially those disciples of Dirreda’s postmodernism school.

  • Ze Philosopher

    @Sirjay, we could have been spared all this if it wasn’t for ANC’s affection for Zumas’ spear and partly controversy along with a crying Advocate in court. Our anxiety isn’t due to its publicity but the wild extravagant legal argument for racializing this matter though as facts.There’s nothing childish about protecting our Constitution from such absurd ill conceived rhetorics advocated by corrupt elites hellbend on manupilating every layman in South Africa so they could have another term at line their pockets.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “have shamelessly punted the argument that one’s view of this painting will immediately tell everyone – but especially “patriotic citizens” (often conflated with slavish supporters of the President and the faction inside the ANC he sometimes leads)”

    Exactly. I’m an Afrikaner and I’m an African just like Jacob Zuma is a Zulu and an African. I’m proud of that fact. If you do not like Africa, believe that your whitish [racist] liberalism is superior and aught to be force-fed down everybody’s throats then I have bad news for you boet. I’m offended when our Zulu president is humiliated in public in this Eurocentric condescending manner, in full view of the colonial Western world, this immoral “whitish” universe that you keep harping on about like the retarded fucking hypocrite that you are, no matter what he has done to “deserve it”.

    It ain’t going to work. Better you pack your bags for Perth or Switzerland, that is where you belong.

  • Ze Philosopher

    *lining their pockets*

  • sirjay jonson

    I’m proud to be a liberal Zdenekv: To me it means first and foremost human rights, all (as in men, women, black, white, brown, red, yellow, political elite, impoverished, wealthy, etc) all equal under the law. Because this is what liberal Democracy is. To argue against it is to argue against individual human rights to be protected, that such rights not be denied for some arbitrary prejudiced, politically personal or bigoted reason; as in equal opportunity, all equally entitled to the law, to services which their taxes pay for (and VAT is a tax by the way which everyone pays).

    In the west it was the now, and to a degree then, despised President Bush and his republican self hating comrades who successfully spun the term Liberal into a meaning which completely defiled and falsified its meaning and direction. Effectively, and unfortunately, it was all successful political spin; a form of deliberate attacking prejudice on the innocent based on false premises, (the lie told most often) which however, was successfully the brainwashing of the western public’s eye, or at least those who didn’t and don’t think, who didn’t or don’t see past the bombast of self seeking politicians. Those familiar with modern US history know the result.

    To denigrate the term Liberal, is to denigrate our Constitution, and all the hopes of this wonderful country. It really comes to this… is your freedom the only freedom you care for, as it appears liberal bashers are interested in. What about everyone else? Liberal social Democracy is for everyone. Why is that a problem? Slices of the pie perhaps?

    Liberal Democracy is social; it honors every member of society, both rich and poor, educated and illiterate as valuable and non expendable members of our society.

    Don’t fall for the spin. Think!

  • zdenekv

    This type of view Pierre is promoting now ( suits him because it can be deployed to argue that gays have same moral dignity as anyone else and hence same rights as anyone else ; but it is also unprincipled . See my previous comment ) of course is also unsatisfactory for another reason ( this is precisely why Rawls ditches the conception of politics based on the idea of dignity in his later work ).

    It is problematic because it leads to ideological hegemony where liberalism is presented as the privileged moral and political framework and all other moral views are seen as flawed to be marginalized /ignored in favour of the liberal conception ( this is a type of soft totalitarianism ).

    In a multicultural democracy like SA this indeed is problematic because there will be citizens who dont endorse the conception of good the liberal outlook based on dignity defends and promotes as universally valid. Rawls himself in his later work ( ‘Political Liberalism’ and also ‘The Law of Peoples ‘ ) recognizes this as an insurmaountable problem which has to lead to political instability and makes implemenation of well ordered society impossible .

    He proposes ditching what he calls ‘substantive’ or ‘metaphysical conceptions of justice’ ( and the view which sees human dignity as key is just such an substantive moral conception ) for multicultural contexts ( like SA of course ) and puts forward a ‘political conception of justice’ which moves away from the idea of moral dignity.

  • sirjay jonson

    Ze Philosopher
    May 29, 2012 at 20:30 pm

    Agreed.

  • Brett Nortje

    khosi says:
    May 29, 2012 at 20:04 pm

    Really, Khosi!

    Are you hinting this President is unlettered?

  • sirjay jonson

    ozoneblue
    May 29, 2012 at 20:39 pm

    OZ. Your issues are so out there, also here daily present on Prog’s blog. They are the issues of so many. Ek verstaan broer. Keep searching.

    Its a struggle we all go though, and here in South Africa, wow, what a struggle.
    Al die beste.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “All South Africans – including those who deny the continued existence of white [superiority complex] while smugly pointing disapproving and judgemental fingers at the ANC”

    “At the evil heart of apartheid was the racist belief that black people did not possess the same [cultural and moral values] as whites to be [civilised] beings”

    Well said. Time for serious introspection I guess.

  • Brett Nortje

    Vuyo says:
    May 29, 2012 at 16:44 pm

    “Heh heh heh”, to quote our beloved President!

    Employing a great deal of compulsion to influence how other people exercise their freedom of expression is regressive, but not when the object is the fruits of their effort?

    Get a clue!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OzoneBlue

    “… disciples of Dirreda’s postmodernism school …”

    I say Foucaalt, Leotard and Baarthes are even dumber than Dirreda!

    Thanks.

  • sirjay jonson

    OZ: I sincerely believe I don’t feel superior even though I laugh at all the convoluted and agonizing antics of South Africa society and its corrupt political elite. As I posted to Brett some many moon ago, one of the wisest statements a north american Indian elder ever said, on my behalf to a medicine pipe smoking circle when certain militant individuals complained of my presence as a Cree authorized pipe carrier, as follows: “all men carry blood which is red, the sooner we accept this, the better”.

    My liberal philosophy, life style, and beliefs if you wish, allow for everyone’s opinion, allow for everyone’s desire to succeed. As a liberal social Constitutional Democrat, both in Canada and here in South Africa, I want only what is best for everyone, a win/win situation. I believe that is what we need to be striving for.

  • Brett Nortje

    Mike says:
    May 29, 2012 at 16:56 pm

    For once, Vuyo is not that far off the mark. The big art buyers are corporate collections. John Konakeefe Mohl went bigtime for the first time a week ago. There are very well-known black artists whose work consistently go for peanuts, not even the price of their materials. I have a 30 year old (I think) artwork by M Khali who I cannot find a trace of in any of the dictionaries or magazines. There is little interest.

  • Brett Nortje

    sirjay jonson says:
    May 29, 2012 at 21:15 pm

    When so much of what the ANC does is pure dumb-assedness how is it possible not to believe my pigeons are intellectually superior?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “Even more dangerous is the shift away from the project of non-racialism to a re-segregation of the public sphere.”

    I believe that quote doesn’t belong in this context. It is absolute nonsense if intended as as a hint at Cde Jacob Zuma as if he is an chauvinistic Africanist racist who doesn’t “surround himself with Indians”. The fact that he respect his own cultural heritage doesn’t make him into a racial segregationist.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “and thus expected to show solidarity with the philanderer from Nkandla”

    In fact we have been here before. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    “South Africa’s president, Jacob Zuma, has lashed out at British attitudes to “barbaric” Africans as he begins a state visit in London.

    The remarks came after scathing British media coverage of the polygamous president and his chequered past, including the recent scandal of his 20th child, born out of wedlock. A Daily Mail article described him as a “sex-obsessed bigot” and “vile buffoon”.

    Zuma, due to meet the Queen and Gordon Brown today, countered with an attack on what he described as culturally superior views reminiscent of the British empire in South Africa.

    “When the British came to our country, they said everything we are doing was barbaric, was wrong, inferior in whatever way,” he told South Africa’s Star newspaper.

    “Bear in mind that I’m a freedom fighter and I fought to free myself, also for my culture to be respected. And I don’t know why they are continuing thinking that their culture is more superior than others, those who might have said so.

    “I am very clear on these issues, I’ve not looked down upon any culture of anyone, and no one has been given an authority to judge others.

    “The British have done that before, as they colonised us, and they continue to do this, and it’s an unfortunate thing. If people want an engagement, I’m sure we will engage on that issue.”

    Zuma’s statement was condemned by South Africa’s main opposition party, the Democratic Alliance, as insulting to his hosts.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/03/british-africans-barbaric-jacob-zuma

    “Jacob Zuma is a sex-obsessed bigot with four wives and 35 children. So why is Britain fawning over this vile buffoon?”

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1254748/Jacob-Zuma-sex-obsessed-bigot–Britain-fawning-him.html#ixzz1wHz1Q1tc

  • Brett Nortje

    Sirjay, please do not do a disappearing act for another two weeks!

    I’ve been wanting to pick a fight with you over the ridiculous anti-public-protest law in Montreal…

  • sirjay jonson

    Brett Nortje
    May 29, 2012 at 21:18 pm

    Perhaps Brett, its an act of discipline, if not of faith in the goodness of humankind, regardless of the criminality and African atrocities we are all so aware of. As a youth in Canada we used to say: ‘keep the faith’ as a ‘cool’ statement to each other, we who grew up and became rebellious objectors to North American prejudice and societal norms. Otherwise, it means giving up, accepting less… as here in South Africa, for example, saying “its Africa”. I don’t accept this. We all make a difference, each of us, regardless of what we think or do. I read your posts on various news items and blogs. You are making a difference. Your input becomes part of the here and now of vital social dialogue.

    Change takes time and I think we need to recognize that its a mix of all our inputs that produces the change, not necessarily exactly the way we want, but change nevertheless.

    It serves no purpose to feel superior, that just polarizes. You may recall I posted to you how indigenous Cdn Indians settle societal issues. Each representative individual in a committee circle represents a personal circle in themselves, (as for example do each of us posting on Prof’s blog). Each within the circle believe their thoughts are representative of themselves as an individual, many of which initially bump up against others in the common collective circle. The key is to find where these mental and emotional circles, where the individual beliefs don’t bump, don’t reject, but instead interact, touch each other, overlap.

    Progress is then advanced by all participants observing where the areas in which their individual ‘circle personality’, opinions, beliefs, overlap with others, and not where their circle of opinions and beliefs reject others. The facilitator of such gatherings is traditionally in aboriginal culture an elder (keep in mind these are effectively council political meetings) an elder who identifies on behalf of all participants where individuals merge and overlap, not emphasizing the rejections, but rather the agreements. This then promotes growth which proceeds with subsequent decisions to benefit all.

    Mind you, its a spiritual practice, as aboriginals see it, under the eyes of Grandfather and Grandmother, that which Christians call God.

    It is, however, historically a 50,000 year old community activity very successful in finding the common ground for a community question. Can we do that in South Africa? Find our common ground?

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 29, 2012 at 19:34 pm

    Dworky,

    “an inter-racial couple”

    You mean Coloured people, don’t you!

    Were they over-concentrated?

  • sirjay jonson

    One more comment if I may Prof. In Canada the aboriginal Indian societies are allowed their own independent tribal Indian Justice within their communities. The North West Territories for example is ruled as Government by the Inuit. You might know them as the Eskimos. Anyway my point is this. Whether Cree, Blood, or Six Nations, they are afforded their own operation of justice, however, said justice must meet within the Constitutional law of Canada, no exception.

    This is not the case with the proposed Traditional Leaders bill before parliament.

    Such indigenous justice activity in Canada works well precisely because it must adhere to evolved Canadian law and the Constitution.

  • John Roberts

    @Lars

    Unfortunately both you and Meneer de Vos ignore the fact that only 10% of the population understands what a constitutional democracy is.

    The other 90% will let us know by brute force what their version of a constitutional democracy is.

    So the conundrum is this : if the majority of the people say fuck our democracy and idealistic constitution, is that democratic ?

  • John Roberts

    @Vuyo

    Your insight into capitalism is the kind of stuff that makes an excellent comedy show.
    How did we evolve from ancient hunter-gatherers to modern consumer-traders?

    Anything beyond a Stone Age existence requires exchange, a division of labor. If you and your family or tribe had to make everything you used, you would be limited to the same standard of living as paleolithic humans had. And to have a division of labor, in which people specialize at making different things and performing different services, you need trade. And to have trade beyond simple, inefficient barter, you need a medium of exchange, i.e., money. In short, the more evolved (i.e., complex, because I’m not using “evolved” in the true Darwinian sense) a society, the more it needs money.

    So capitalism is built into the human DNA. It not a system. It’s the evolutionary economic results of thousands of years of human interaction, trade and barter and if it weren’t efficient it would have died a natural death.

    In Jesus’ Parable of the Talents, recounted in Matthew 25:14–29, the gospel author recalls the messiah as saying in the final verse: “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.” Out of context this hardly sounds like the wisdom of the prophet who proclaimed that the meek shall inherit the earth, but in context, Jesus’ point was that properly investing one’s money (as measured in “talents”) generates even more wealth. The servant who was given five talents invested it and gave his master ten talents in return. The servant who was given two talents invested it and gave his master four talents in return. But the servant who was given one talent buried it in the ground and gave his master back just the one talent. The master then ordered his risk-averse servant to give the one talent to the servant who had doubled his investment of five talents, and so he who earned the most was rewarded with even more. And thus it is that the rich get richer.

    Stop thinking like a fucking caveman.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    John Roberts
    May 29, 2012 at 22:56 pm

    Hey JR,

    “but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.”

    Are you sure Jesus said that – it sounds like stuff only OB could have thought up (or would believe).

    Brett usually complains about his “property” being taken away – but he has a lot so he can share.

  • John Roberts

    @Vuyo

    If it were not for capitalism we would still be in caves and you wouldn’t have a computer to show us all how backward you are. Scary, hey.

    How many capitalists in a pride of Lions ? One or two at most.

    And in a troop of lemmings ? None. And what do lemmings do ? Well they do the kind of thing that your thinking would lead us to.

  • John Roberts

    @ Maggs

    I would ask Matthew if Jesus really said that but he’s long gone. I think the parable can best be summed up as saying this :

    stop complaining about your lot in life and stop blaming others. Go out and better yourself otherwise I’ll take all your fucking stuff away.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    John Roberts
    May 29, 2012 at 23:13 pm

    JR,

    “Go out and better yourself otherwise I’ll take all your fucking stuff away.”

    This part parable then could well be the reason why so many have their hands in our national ATM and why the road to Manguang is paved with gold!

    For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance

  • John Roberts

    @Vuyo

    Your troubles as a nation will only come to an end when you embrace the capatilistic principles. The beauty of capitalism is that the barriers to entry are prettly low and even the broad bottom of the pyramid gets rewarded.
    But you need 2 basic things that are human rights.
    1. Education.
    2. Free flow of information.

    The ANC is denying this to the majority of South Africans because they know that once the masses are enlightened, they won’t need the ANC no more.

    So they’ll keep you poor and feed you bullshit and let you believe that Jacob Zuma’s cock is more important than basisc human rights. And you’ll carry on believing that you get nowhere because of evil capitalists.

  • John Roberts

    @Maggs

    True but I’m sure there is a part somewhere that says theft is not a way of bettering oneself.
    “For to everyone who has” is referring to those who have already bettered themselves the way Jesus wanted them to, not those who stole. In the really happy ending thieves get thrown in the unquenchable fire :)

  • Brett Nortje

    John Roberts says:
    May 29, 2012 at 23:29 pm
    @Maggs

    These fundamentalist ANC types always manage to find a way past the Commandments.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 29, 2012 at 23:39 pm

    Hey G,

    The Commandments say something about “thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.”

    Haiybo – “ox”??? “ass”??? – so someone had a sense of humour!!!!

    p.s. It does not say anything about “thy friend’s daughter”.

    “Thou can covet thy neighbour!”

    WDYS?

  • Brett Nortje

    I agree in large part to somewhat less with every point that Vuyo made except no 14 which neatly encapsulates the propensity one may observe in a huge number of black people to self-destruct.

    Vuyo’s point no 14 correlates nicely to the old scorpion/frog fable, the reason why I never let my pitbull play unsupervised with my Dobermanns or Jack Russell, why I stop at stopsigns, why I try not to go through yellow robots, why I treat every gun as loaded, why I condomise, why I do not smoke and have never been drunk or really stoned, why I try to save, why I do not trust politicians nor governments, why I turn plugs off and pour water over the braai coals and

    This could be a long list.

    firstly, the ANC is increasingly right-wing,
    secondly, that the SACP is a fake/degenerate Marxist party,
    thirdly, that capitalism is a putrid and evil system,
    fourthly, that those who promote capitalism are therefore agents of rot and evil, fifthly, that racism and all discriminations (including sex, sexual orientation, etc) are a product of at least capitalism or its more base predecessor systems,
    sixthly, that the ANC’s response to the Spear was unprincipled,
    seventhly, that you cannot reasonably rely on culture to justify censorship, eighthly, that the commercial success of the Spear relative Mabulu’s Ngcono ihlwempu kunesibhanxa sesityebi is a result of the inequities caused by capitalism, ninthly, that apartheid was a product of capitalism,
    tenthly, that Zuma is the death of the ANC and thus serves the course of reactionaries,
    eleventhly, that Ferial Haffajee has destroyed the City Press, made a typical (but wrong) decision by withdrawing the picture (based in particular on her ridiculous arguments for doing so) and is a reactionary agent of capitalists who have absolutely no care for the populace of this country, white or black,
    twelfthly, that Murray was well entitled to publish his work regardless our opinion of it,
    thirteenthly, that this whole Spear controversy will result in hardships for the poor and not the rich,
    fourteenthly, that communism of the Anarcho-Marxist type is wholly good relative to capitalism and other alternatives

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, stop coveting thy neighbour’s ass
    and sommer stay off his grass

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    John Roberts
    May 29, 2012 at 23:24 pm

    “Your troubles as a nation will only come to an end when you embrace the capatilistic principles.”

    We have in fact embraced those capitalistic principles during the past 18 years. It didn’t work. Thus, although I vehemently disagree with the political subtext of the Spear – I do not feel the same about:

    “an ANC logo with an inscription ‘FOR SALE’ and ‘SOLD'”

    It is also very unfortunate that ANC/SACP/COSATU now clearly abuses this opportunity to advocate for the censorship of all the associated art works at Goodman Gallery that carry a legitimate and very valid critique of the degeneration of the struggle. It casts in doubt any principled motives they may have had.

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 0:09 am
    ”We have in fact embraced those capitalistic principles during the past 18 years.”

    Stront! Cosatu het heelpad enige poging om entrepreneurskap aan te moedig gesaboteur en almal kon sien die ANC (wie se een hand vingersgekruis agter die rug was) het dit toegelaat vir die afperswaarde.

    Sover dit die Goodman aangaan was vandag se groot wenner Li$a E$$er wie skotvry daarvan afgekom het.

  • John Roberts

    @Ozoneblue
    “We have in fact embraced those capitalistic principles during the past 18 years. It didn’t work. ”

    Sorry but you’re wrong. Proper world-class education and access to information is still denied to the majority by the ANC. Sure a few blacks will rise to the top despite them but the majority will never know economic freedom unless the ANC truly becomes a party for the people and not just a slogan

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 0:19 am

    The ANC sold OUT long, long time ago in the name of “reconciliation” and our “liberal constitution”. Don’t ubber-racist capitalists like you and JR think you should at least thank them and should have have joined yesterday’s march? That is another profound dishonesty in that Goodman exhibition – it launches a scathing attack on the modern leadership of the ANC but it only tells have the story.

    And it wasn’t Cde Jacob Zuma who sold out the ANC – it was father of this miraculous rainbow nation dear old Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki. I thought everybody knew why it was done.

    John Pilger – Apartheid Did Not Die (1 of 6)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ew-BtAgxhik

    Apartheid Did Not Die was made way back in 1998.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “but it only tells half the story.”

  • Brett Nortje

    Soos jy, meen jy.

  • John Roberts

    @Ozoneblue

    What you call selling out was simply the realisation that to compete and be part of the world economy they had to trade like the rest of the world. So we don’t have to thank the ANC for capitalism… it was there long before them. Blacks think they have some unique answer and are being prevented from implementing it. Just look north …. they have no answers.

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 7:15 am

    What I said at
    Brett Nortje says:
    May 29, 2012 at 23:59 pm

    Close your eyes and imagine that PW, FW and the white community as a whole had not decided after 350 years of bloodshed we had to try and find a modus vivendi between black and white in South Africa because the moral price to maintain the status quo was too high to pay.

    The ANC was the most ineffectual liberation movement the world has ever seen – a plus factor IMHO; that you could have a terrorist organisation half of whom would say sorry every time enemy non-combatants were hurt.

    The NP could easily have maintained power infinitely. With the education system we had a highly efficient repressive state would just have become more and more organised and efficient.

    Becoming an adult means the process is completed of learning that actions have consequences and that a moral person takes responsibility for his actions; that his world view had better be based on the fact that the process of learning has made clear that certain consequences are reasonably foreseeable.

    This tension between reasonable foreseeability and actions and consequences and taking responsibility for the consequence of ones actions somehow zipped past OBS and Vuyo.

    We have debated the consequences of their world view endlessly – they cannot even reach the reasonable foreseeability stage.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 8:18 am

    Hey G,

    “The NP could easily have maintained power infinitely.”

    Arrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

    Bollocks man.

    The NP are still in power.

    The democratic revolution was outplayed and out maneuvered.

    FW deserves another Nobel prize for ingenuity.

    Dunce cap for the “progressive forces”!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    John Roberts
    May 30, 2012 at 8:16 am

    Since when does socialist states not believe in international trade? That is the main reason Cuba’s economy has been sabotaged by the USA led trade embargo.

    “The US trade embargo, known as the blockade or “el bloqueo” in Spanish, was introduced soon after the 1959 Revolution. It was strengthened in 1962, with the support of Cubans who had fled to the United States, after Fidel Castro’s Cuba nationalised the properties of American citizens and corporations.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-17545170

    Also Communist China has flourished through the international trade regime.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 8:18 am

    “Close your eyes and imagine that PW, FW and the white community as a whole had not decided after 350 years of bloodshed we had to try and find a modus vivendi between black and white in South Africa because the moral price to maintain the status quo was too high to pay.”

    The systematic dismantling and destruction of the state under the guise of neoliberal privatisation started in the mid-80s in South Africa. But you would never acknowledge that one of the strenghts of the Apartheid regime was a mixed economy, centralised state planning and economic regulation, coupled with government aided private sector – that goes against the grain of your own sell-out, DA selective style historical amnesia that conveniently overlook the fact that the beneficiaries of National party economics are now all jumped up on the neoliberal bandwagon of privatisation.

    Privatisation of Apartheid inherited privilege that is.

  • Mike

    @ozone blue – Maggies Thatchers famous words , socilaism is great until you run out of someone elses money.
    The mess Europe is in is because of socialism where the electorate pull more money out of the economic system than what they have put in.
    That does not happen in a capatilist society because you reap what you put in.
    South Africa has embarked on a socialist model where 5 million individual tax payers support 15million people (when they are not marching to the Goodman gallery) on welfare.
    It is obvious that 15million with skills would increase the economic cake, but the ANC alliance has prevented the market from doing so with Soviet ideology that you so readily subscribe to.

  • Lars

    @John Roberts,
    fine so what to do? Try and teach democracy and let it take the time it needs is the only way, isn’t it? At least as long as you yourself take the constitution seriously, which is not my impression concerning most of the comments here.
    What I read here is a wide range from Communism Utopia to the other end of the political spectrum.
    Seriously, what did you except? A country in which caused by historical, criminal reasons a majority is living either in Slums or in Ghettos with no proper access to education and no perspective to make money for their living on their own, can’t just develop by a miracle, it takes time and economic growth to set up a working social welfare system to rescue at least the next generation!
    And most important, you need a stable Democracy under your Constitution, otherwise no investor would think of putting his money in your economy (again)!
    At the end, this discussion only shows how accurate PdV’s description of the state of minds is.

  • Zoo Keeper

    The right to dignity inherently includes the right to be offended.

    Steve Biko would have laughed off the painting like Zille did of the ANCYL’s photo-shop.

    That is having dignity – to take an offense and deal with the slings and arrows of life. If you take that right away, or seek to overly protect people from one another, you remove that dignity.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mike
    May 30, 2012 at 9:06 am

    “but the ANC alliance has prevented the market from doing so with Soviet ideology that you so readily subscribe to.”

    LOL.

    Yet more utter racist rubbish. I don’t take anything you write seriously so please stop responding to my posts.

  • Mike

    @Lars – One thing we need to understand very clearly is that had it been for the Marshall ,plan Germany itself would have been one big slum, Hard to imagine but that is how Adolf Hitler came into power.
    There are other minotities that lived under apartheid that did not have the population increase that was particular nothwithstanding that even under apartheid neighbouring blacks and asians from east africa continued to flood into South Africa.
    No so simple my german friend a nation that has hid its historty from its youth.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Privatization of South Africa’s public assets – one of our biggest capitalist “success” stories yet.

    “The South African Transport Services

    Privatisation of South African Transport Services was more difficult, because the entire parastatal was managed like a state department. Its budget was also subject to parliamentary approval. This public entity first had to be corporatised, that is reorganised according to the Companies Act of 1973 with shares issued on the stock exchange. On 24 August 1988, a report by Dr W J de Villiers was presented to the government. It dealt with the strategic planning, management practices and systems of South African Transport Services. Dr de Villiers stated that Transport Services had to deliver a supportive service to the private sector. He said that South African Airways should be separated from the general Transport Services and should be managed like an independent business enterprise. He also stated that Transport Services could no longer be subjected to social and political pressures. Transport Services should be managed according to private enterprise principles and had to compete in a deregulated market. It was predicted that there would be a transitional period of three to five years before the Transport Services would be able to totally function on an improved footing (Saayman 1989:107-109. Cf Office for Public Enterprises, 1995).

    After this report the government decided that the transport market should be deregulated. Transport Services should be a profitable enterprise and taxed like any other private entity. The creation of a shareholding base should facilitate privatisation. The South African Transport Services would be a private enterprise in accordance with the Companies Act of 1973. Management immediately decided to change and restructure the physical organisation of Transport Services. Each department received a managing director and a groups chief manager. The various transport services were categorised into individual departments: Railways, Airways, Harbours, Road Transportation and Pipelines. Special consideration was given to the productivity of Transport Services. In the period between June 1982 and June 1989 personnel were reduced by 100 000 workers (no one was discharged), and productivity increased by 8 per cent. By the end of the 1989 financial year, Transport Services showed a profit of R147 million. The parastatal was then commercialised but in 1990 the privatisation debate came to a standstill because of political developments. At present, Transnet is a commercialised entity that is being managed according to business principles. According to the Bank of Lisbon’s Economic Focus (1994:2) Transnet could be valued at R11,9 billion (Saayman 1989:110-113. Cf Office for Public Enterprises, 1995. Cf Bank of Lisbon, Economic Focus, 1994:2). ”

    http://www.unisa.ac.za/default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=11629#history

    We used to have a very good railways system in the good old Nat economic policy days. Now that is pretty much fucked up. and our roads are going to shit too at an alarming rate as they take most of the industrial load.

    Success story indeed.

  • Mike

    @ozone blue – what then is the NDR that you so readily subscibe to.The former soviet states have all ended being run by a mafia type goverment, and this one is no different.Where do you think the people sitting to the left and right hand side of Zuma on TV were trained.Radebe in East Germany,Balelete in East Germany, Sexwala has an engineering from Bulgeria etc etc.

  • Brett Nortje

    Newsflash!

    South Africa’s first showtrial live on TV at 10!

    The Godfather is expected to be the People’s Procurator!

    Li$a E$$er will make a tearful confession!

    The People’s Procurator will be magnanimous!

    Inkosi will cheer!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OzoneBlue

    “it wasn’t Cde Jacob Zuma who sold out the ANC – it was father of this miraculous rainbow nation dear old Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki”

    OB is right. That is why we can be so grateful that Zuma has REPUDIATED his predecessor’s embrace of neo-liberal economics, and has moved decisively in favour of SOCIALISM!

    [OB, I do wonder why Zuma does not fire the ministers’ when they repeatedly reject nationalisation. But perhaps Zuma has a clever strategy to socialise South Africa by stealth?]

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 9:01 am
    ”The systematic dismantling and destruction of the state under the guise of neoliberal privatisation started in the mid-80s in South Africa.”

    Yes, because the NP were pragmatists who let common sense rule – and 30% of the budget was being consumed by the ANusClowns’ handiwork.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    May 30, 2012 at 9:26 am

    Hey Mike,

    “what then is the NDR that you so readily subscibe to”

    The NDR is like god!

    On paper it sounds great.

    Lot’s of people talk about it.

    Nobody has seen it.

    People throw it’s name in vain when cornered.

    It does not exist in reality.

    Sort of like bullshit but less tangible.

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Maggs says its Maria Ramos’ fault.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mike
    May 30, 2012 at 9:26 am

    “@ozone blue – what then is the NDR that you so readily subscibe to.”

    If you knew anything you would know that the NDR is a perverse form of socialism, i.e. a sort of racial Leninism. And you find that strand in all of the confused, blurry, ideologically muddied mutterings of the SACP and COSATU on the subject of the “revolution”.

    http://www.hsf.org.za/resource-centre/focus/issues-21-30/issue-29-first-quarter-2003/mbekis-revolutionary-nationalist-agenda

  • Lars

    @mike
    Of course I’m not saying this is easy and I don’t want to seem arrogant or preachy, therefore I’m thankful for your Germany remark, we saw in our country how important a stable Constitution is for a stable society, I hope the pain my country and the whole world suffered from during learning that will be spared your beautiful country!

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 8:51 am
    “Since when does socialist states not believe in international trade?”

    Yes, I saw some of that when the border post at Ressano Garcia opened up – Migs that could not take off, Ilyushins (or was it Hinds? Or was it both?) without rotor blades and jeeps that got 1L/km. LOL!

  • Brett Nortje

    Lars says:
    May 30, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Lars, I hope you will not be put of by our puerile racialised war of position but continue visiting!

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Hey G,

    “Maggs says its Maria Ramos’ fault.”

    LOL!

    It is not Ramos’ fault, but she got credit where none was due.

    Selling off “non-core” assets to show profits is not transforming the pathetic rail system!

  • Mike

    @OZONE BLUE – Racial Leninism is exactly what the ANC means when it talks about transformation.
    The game is up for the ANC they are fucked and it is just a matter of time before they try and make scape goats of whites like Nazi Germany did with the Jews.
    I have been to the holocast museum at the Imperial war museum in London and all you have to do is replace the word JUDEN on the propaganda posters with white and the slogan is virtually identical.
    We saw this with Brett Murray’s painting and that was it white racism not freedom of speech by a South African painter

  • zdenekv

    sirjay jonson :

    “I’m proud to be a liberal Zdenekv: To me it means first and foremost human rights, all”

    I dont have an issue with liberalism. My quarrel is with people like De Vos’ take on the issue.

    What we see is on one hand a type of scepticism about the very idea of universal rights or universal right and wrong motivated by post modernist tendencies which have been influential in the humanities for some time ( favourite of de Vos is someone like Rorty and his idea that rightness and wrongness cannot be taken seriously and that we should adopt an ironic attitude towards claims which purport to be true or objective or universally applicable ) .

    On the other hand, when his bunch of values which underwrite his lifestyle come under pressure ( as they have recently with the traditional leaders wanting to call into question constitutional protection gays enjoy ) , he quickly reaches for the idea of universal human dignity to block the traditionalist attack on our constitution.

    My point is that this type of move ( appealing to enlightenment values when it suits you for personal reasons but dissing the same values on another occasion etc ) is just rhetoric and in the long run undermines the values our constitution is based on. It has to undermine it because this sort of stance involves a tacit concession to the sceptic which says that such values are not true , universal or objective in any interesting sense and that their validity cannot be defended with reason.

  • Brett Nortje

    Too late, bud, she’s already been on the phone to her heavies to find out who ‘Maggs Naidu with a ‘u’ is!

  • Brett Nortje

    Mike says:
    May 30, 2012 at 9:49 am

    The ANC gave it a good try when South Africa was ugraded to ‘Stage 6′ by Genocide Watch.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 9:50 am

    LOL G.

    Maybe some of her “heavies” already know who “Maggs Naidu with a ‘u’ is”.

    And they can go complain to Granny!

  • Mike

    @Lars – and that is what I believe was was at the heart of FW De Klerk’s decision when he made that anouncement in 1989 and that was with a constitutional democracy this country could be spared a lot of pain.
    Unfortunately the present ANC scum are doing evrything in their power to undermine the constitution and the Juduciary, this was recognised by none other than Bizos himself.

  • Brett Nortje

    Mike says:
    May 30, 2012 at 9:06 am
    “It is obvious that 15million with skills would increase the economic cake, but the ANC alliance has prevented the market from doing so with Soviet ideology that you so readily subscribe to.”

    ZooKeeper and I have argued many times on this blog that a property-owning class can be created overnight be giving people in rural areas title to the communal land they live on and work – what has been the socialist response?

  • Mike

    @Brett Nortje – well something I recently learnt from a Chris Hart talk is that the RDP houses dont have property rights with the recipients which is an absolute anathema for a stable democracy

  • Brett Nortje

    Lars, if you want a deeper understanding of how Apartheid came to be institutionalised and why an analogy with Nazi Germany is highly inappropriate google the names below:

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/2-vas-oor-baba-moord-20120530

    2 vas oor baba-moord

    2012-05-30 08:26
    Buks Viljoen

    Die polisie het Dinsdagaand twee verdagtes in verband met die moord op die babaseuntjie Wiehan Botes en Margrietha de Goede (66), sy dagmoeder, aangekeer.

    Die verdagtes is in Daveyton aan die Oos-Rand in hegtenis geneem.

    Wiehan en Margrietha de Goede (66), sy dagmoeder, is verlede Woensdag in haar huis in Delmas, Mpumalanga, vermoor.

    Wiehan se lykie is onder ’n bed gevind en De Goede onder ’n mat in ’n buitestoorkamer.

    Gesteelde goedere is in die verdagtes, wat Donderdagoggend in die hof in Delmas verskyn, se besit gevind.

    Die soektog na nog verdagtes duur voort.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    zdenekv
    May 30, 2012 at 9:49 am

    “What we see is on one hand a type of scepticism about the very idea of universal rights or universal right and wrong motivated by post modernist tendencies which have been influential in the humanities for some time ( favourite of de Vos is someone like Rorty and his idea that rightness and wrongness cannot be taken seriously and that we should adopt an ironic attitude towards claims which purport to be true or objective or universally applicable ) .

    On the other hand, when his bunch of values which underwrite his lifestyle come under pressure ( as they have recently with the traditional leaders wanting to call into question constitutional protection gays enjoy ) , he quickly reaches for the idea of universal human dignity to block the traditionalist attack on our constitution.”

    The concept of “universal rights or universal right” clashes directly with the conclusions to be drawn from the “whiteness studies”. Since most of our [Western] contemporary values are derived from the very same Eurocentric philosophical traditions that helped to sustain colonialism. The White Man’s burden and all of that.

    That is why PdV perpetually have to jump through loops and perform a range of acrobatic antics to defend both without fear of contradiction. Note his warranted attack on “anti-intellectual” currents in the liberation movement versus that I agree with Chomsky’s “anti-intellectualism”. Yet he fails to see the obvious anti-intellectualism in his own brand of “whiteness studies”.

    “As for the “deconstruction” that is carried out (also mentioned in the debate), I can’t comment, because most of it seems to me gibberish. But if this is just another sign of my incapacity to recognize profundities, the course to follow is clear: just restate the results to me in plain words that I can understand, and show why they are different from, or better than, what others had been doing long before and and have continued to do since without three-syllable words, incoherent sentences, inflated rhetoric that (to me, at least) is largely meaningless, etc. That will cure my deficiencies — of course, if they are curable; maybe they aren’t, a possibility to which I’ll return.

    These are very easy requests to fulfill, if there is any basis to the claims put forth with such fervor and indignation. But instead of trying to provide an answer to this simple requests, the response is cries of anger: to raise these questions shows “elitism,” “anti-intellectualism,” and other crimes — though apparently it is not “elitist” to stay within the self- and mutual-admiration societies of intellectuals who talk only to one another and (to my knowledge) don’t enter into the kind of world in which I’d prefer to live. As for that world, I can reel off my speaking and writing schedule to illustrate what I mean, though I presume that most people in this discussion know, or can easily find out; and somehow I never find the “theoreticians” there, nor do I go to their conferences and parties. In short, we seem to inhabit quite different worlds, and I find it hard to see why mine is “elitist,” not theirs. The opposite seems to be transparently the case, though I won’t amplify.”

    http://www.mrbauld.com/chomsky1.html

  • Lars

    @Brett, don’t worry I will definitely come back again and again!
    Actually there is a positive side to all of this, the situation is absolutely interesting and the fact that you are addressing the problems and discuss your opinions is a perfect expression of democracy.
    In Germany people got so lazy concerning politics, no one cares! (Although I wouldn’t be sure, ifa nude painting of Angela Merkel lead to a public outcry, too, but for other rasons ;-) )

  • Thomas

    Ze Philosopher says:

    “That picture depicts Zuma and not every African man like Mandela, Gwame Nkurumah, O R Tambo, Steve Biko, myself and Vuyo included. We should start being objective and rational about such issues.”

    The collection was about the failures, the selling out of the ANC, the corruption of the ANC etc. What was this piece doing in the collection if it wasn’t about the ANC itself? Therefore it must be concluded that the picture was a depiction of ANC leaders in general including: Mandela, O R Tambo and many others. Why would the painter paint a picture of Solomon Mahlangu with his words changed if he was not referring to the ANC and its history? How do two people seeing something differently especially art result in them not being objective and rational?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Much as with “whiteness studies” we should be careful to rely on “representative anecdotes” and “subjective narratives” to arrive at generalised theories and conclusions. It is simply not scientific.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Thomas
    May 30, 2012 at 10:48 am

    “What was this piece doing in the collection if it wasn’t about the ANC itself? Therefore it must be concluded that the picture was a depiction of ANC leaders in general including: Mandela, O R Tambo and many others.”

    Exactly. The artist exhibits the very same moral ambiguity and selective amnesia than we have when it comes to the DA “honouring the legacy of Mandela” while many of those who imprisoned him and who support their party still refer to Africans as “refugees” in their own country.

  • Ze Philosopher

    I find some of the anecdote very amusing and as for the acrimony from a certain Australian, that’s just mind boggling. Perhaps it is worth reminding him that he ran away instead of remaining behind and help realise the Rainbow Nation dream. Sometimes Mugabe’s quotes are worth mentioning; Keep your Australia and we will keep our South Africa. I’m thankful to every Whitey in this country for having the courage to stay and help build this country so we could one day take our place amongst the global leading countries. Lars thanks for your inputs. @OB perhaps you need a reminding that Mandela didn’t sell us out, that we had to start somewhere or is it that you know but suffering from amblyopia?

  • mhlongo

    “How does one engage with the many other questions raised by the work of art in such an atmosphere in which the very idea of engagement, discussion and respect for different views has been rejected as part of a liberal plot against the revolution”

    “Respect for different views”, come on Prof, your Gwedes, Blades and the lot, have long figured out that liberalism has no respect for different views, that is why in your liberal eyes they are demagogues and populist, such name-calling allows liberals to swiftly dismiss them.

    l

  • Mike

    @ozone blue – The person who used the word “educational refugee”is the same person who broke the story on Steve Biko’s death ie Helen Zille as a young news reporter.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OB

    “many those who imprisoned [Mandela] … support [the DA]”

    OB is right.

    I have always maintained that the “bad” Nats joined to DA — while the “good” ones, e.g., Pik Botha, Tertius Delport, and even “Kortbroek,” joined the ANC!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    OB is right also in identifying the word “refugee” as a vicious RACIST SLUR. That is why I am demanding the disbandment of the U.N. High Commission for Refugees — or at least that they find themselves a new name that is not deeply insulting to those they claim to serve!

    Thanks.

  • Ze Philosopher

    @ Thomas- with due respect; I find it insulting to even equate Mahlangu and the current bunch of gluttons in the ANC. It’s beyond my comprehension because Mahlangu fought for our fate, that’s why he said “My blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom.” He knew his fate was sealed, he didn’t fight for corruption, cadre deployment and failures as you mentioned above. The picture purely talks about Zuma’s character and yes partially ANC but not their former glory, but their current evil absurd tendencies of racialising, taking a cheap swipe at our judiciary, appointing unfit people at important positions, their lack of vision and growth for this country. We shouldn’t be patrionized by all their blarney communist ideologies whilst living a life of laizzes faires.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 30, 2012 at 11:43 am

    “while the “good” ones, e.g., Pik Botha, Tertius Delport, and even “Kortbroek,” joined the ANC!”

    With all respect. I reject your Machiavellianist denialism – the terminology “good” versus “bad”. We called them the “verligtes” – the vast majority of “verkramptes” went on to join the herstigte DP and most of them subsequently mysteriously forgot that there was ever such a thing as Apartheid or the National party. Equally mysteriously Nelson Mandela almost over night got promoted from “communist terrorist” to the beloved Madiba, father of the new rainbow nation.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneblue

    You are right. But may I add the the “DA” and its LIBERAL predecessors were in one sense much worse than the Nats. At least with the Nats one know where one stood. By contrast, the DA, PP, PFP, etc, were always CLOSET racists who talked a good game while secretly thanking the Nats for keeping blacks in their place.

    Worst of all, the LIBERALS foresaw a capitalist future. Thank goodness it was the ANC that got to set economic policy post-1994, sparing us the fate of living under capitalism in the new South Africa!

  • malome tom

    at the risk of attacking the man, and not his arguments: prof achille is quite right wing in his outlook generally, okay perhaps, very right of center. and i think it’s ironic because this zuma faction in the anc is giving us the first taste of an emerging conservatism threading itself into the politcal public discourse. i can’t recall an instance in the new sa where the anc coalesced political support around a set of conservative moral values. so imo, in a round about way, achille and this new anc are like peas in a pod

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 30, 2012 at 13:38 pm

    “By contrast, the DA, PP, PFP, etc, were always CLOSET racists who talked a good game while secretly thanking the Nats for keeping blacks in their place.”

    Oh – How you bring back such painful memories. I remember the “Packing For Perth” very well as it was yesterday. I still have great respect for Van Zyl Slabbert though, when in 1986 he refused to partake in the Nat’s special tricameral farce.

    “As head of IDASA, van Zyl Slabbert played a leading role in initiating dialgoue between white South Africans and the African National Congress (ANC). His efforts led to the Dakar conference of 1987, which took place between the anti-apartheid movement and leading (mainly Afrikaner) politicians, academics and businessmen in Senegal.[3] This conference represented the first step towards dismantling apartheid and informed subsequent negotiations (CODESA) which changed the course of South Africa’s history.”

    ever reliable wiki

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    malome tom
    May 30, 2012 at 14:04 pm

    “zuma faction in the anc is giving us the first taste of an emerging conservatism threading itself into the politcal public discourse. i can’t recall an instance in the new sa where the anc coalesced political support around a set of conservative moral values.”

    I don’t know where you have been the past 300 years or so but Africans have always been “conservative” since they have been forced by racist white colonists to reject their highly progressive/promiscuous innate sexual and social value systems. It was that liberal and Western educated Mbeki who locked himself into his office doing important AIDS research on the Internet and refusing to talk to anybody else except his mother that might have created a false consciousness that we are all in fact all of us “liberal”.

  • Mike

    @ozone blue and Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder – The youngest a person could be today in 2012 that supported the imprisonment of Mandela is 67 years of age.
    Can you give us the statistics of how many people 67 years and older make up the DA voters.
    Very easy to selectively apply yesterdays history to todays circumstances.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Global Post:

    Two desperate housewives at the Goodman Art Gallery discussing the futility of their existential struggle to attain true sexual emancipation in a White, male dominated world.

    http://www.globalpost.com/photo/5705117/the-spear-jacob-zuma-painting-22-05-2012

  • Zoo Keeper

    Well, today Gwede Mantashe laid it all out for us.

    Mission accomplished he says, and chillingly, what we can’t win in the courts, we’ll win in the streets…

    For the dominant party in our democracy to even mention this is enough to have one eyeing the passports. So the cat is out of the bag at last: the ANC is not interested in the rule of law at all, simply retaining power at all costs – yes, at all costs.

    If it cannot get its way legally it will physically intimidate you into submission or worse.

    What a proud display of its real colours.

    What a terrifying glimpse of the future…

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Mike

    With respect, any whitish person who is over 42 years old today could have voted for the Nat govt, as it was perpetuating the imprisonment of Mr Mandela.

    Thanks.

  • Brett Nortje

    I reckon we should take the silly midget’s beamer away.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2012/05/30/enough-is-enough-blade-tells-whites

    “To whites, we are saying enough is enough.” – Nzimande

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Zooky

    “For the dominant party in our democracy to even mention this is enough to have one eyeing the passports”

    Zooky, if you are so anxious to view the private parts of the Head of State, you should emigrate to Australia on Canada. There you will be at liberty to view nude impressions of Her Majesty Elizabeth Regina. But if you stay in Africa, you must get used to the fact that the dignitas of the phallocrat weighs more heavily that the abstract liberal “right” of artistic expression.

    Thanks

  • sirjay jonson

    Mike
    May 30, 2012 at 10:10 am
    “@Brett Nortje – well something I recently learnt from a Chris Hart talk is that the RDP houses dont have property rights with the recipients”

    Absolutely correct Mike. The recipients actually refer to their monthly municipal bill as ‘rent’. This also applies to my domestic who has had her RDP home for many years, pre 94 I believe, and she has made significant upgrades and enlargement.

    The question is why? The general answer is that if they own the property they will just sell it. One of the problems with those successful on the lists, is that many have waited so many years that they now have other accommodation. At present sales are not acknowledged by the municipalities, however rentals are very common, but not the majority.

    Keep in mind also that many of the poor could not pay an annual rates bill. RDP homes sell for as much as R70k, although the sales I believe are illegal and not titled or acknowledged. New owners can be removed by the municipality. Lots of family fights about these homes as well.

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma must go!

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 30, 2012 at 17:47 pm

    Dworky,

    “any whitish person who is over 42 years old today could have voted for the Nat gov”

    Maybe so, but nobody alive today voted for the then National Party, right?

    Today, millions vote for the NEW National Party which probably develops policy, strategy and tactics for the democratic government.

    The ANC has done well to transform itself from the oldest liberation movement to an FONG-KONG of the NNP.

  • khosi

    What options does the Speaker of Parliament have in dealing with this? –

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2012/05/30/president-violated-oath-lekota

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 17:55 pm

    It is sad when a racial Leninist resorts to crude race-baiting but it is the last resort and quite predictable because he is just as compromised and corrupt as the bourgeois Black Nationalist Julius Malema – just like all the other anti-colonial struggles in Africa where derailed and destroyed by greedy Black racists just like Blade. I therefore advise cde. Blade to pull his head out of the ANC’s arse, wipe the shit out of his eyes, blow the dust off his Das Capital and try to recall again what was the skin colour of Carl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, the entire USSR population, the majority of Cuban freedom fighters, Brahm Fischer, Joe Slovo and his very own cde. Jeremy Cronin.

  • sirjay jonson

    In watching ETV news tonight of Madiba receiving the torch for the ANC Centennial, it was evident to me that he was not comfortable at all. I’ve known many aged elders and moments such as what occurred there today would normally bring a smile to their face, infused with pride and deep satisfaction.

    There was no undue pressure evident on him. He is very used to the camera and an audience being focused on him. Just my impression, but Madiba is not happy, was not joyfully expressive in his response for 100 yrs of ANC being symbolized by the torch, nor is he likely ignorant as many suppose, of all that is going on in the ANC and South Africa today. It felt to me as though he was quite aware that he is being used.

    His face throughout expressed sadness. There was no indication of joy or pride at receiving the torch. Many elderly, even Madiba I’m certain, still think, still feel and are still very present.

  • Pierre De Vos
  • sirjay jonson

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 17:55 pm

    “To whites, we are saying enough is enough.” – Nzimande

    I can imagine that many whites are coming to a similar decision and saying the same thing about blacks, enough is enough.. not that either can do much about it, mostly bombast. SAfrica is now entirely in a Catch22 situation.

    Definition of Catch 22: ‘A situation in which a desired outcome or solution is impossible to attain because of a set of inherently illogical rules or conditions.’

    My, haven’t the boundaries been intensified.

  • Brett Nortje

    sirjay jonson says:
    May 30, 2012 at 19:50 pm

    Great to see him looking so alert. That famous frown was never far from his face though, eh?

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    May 30, 2012 at 18:25 pm

    Cde Midget would do well to consider what South Africa has asked of his President and weigh it up against what South Africa asked of the Botes family yesterday.

    And then STFU.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 21:02 pm

    Hey G,

    “Cde Midget”

    Midget was before we became a Minister with THE HANDBOOK.

    Now that we are eating on behalf of the people through our mouths we are no longer midget (especially between the tropics)!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Pierre De Vos
    May 30, 2012 at 20:06 pm

    Goodness. I see we are back in the whiteness studies mood again.

    “I have vivid memories of watching my mother, a tall majestic Zulu woman, reduced to barely a whisper as a white person spoke to her with condescension for failing to move out of their way in time.”

    Or the white person could just have been annoyed because she was one of Zuma’s “many wives and children” crowding in front of the Chicken Licken and blocking the entrance to the Black Consciousness[for sensitive whites] lectures.

  • Brett Nortje

    That actually happened to me at ChickenLicken today. OK, this woman was kort en dik.

    I was distracted immediately – by old sjambuck marks on her shoulders.

    That all you learned from the column?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za ozoneblue

    You could do with any sort of consciousness lectures, black would be a bonus.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    May 30, 2012 at 22:46 pm

    Hey G,

    It’s an interesting story that you posted.

    Yesterday I saw a ugly fellow. Very ugly. Really, really, ugly. Is he a White person?

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 30, 2012 at 17:55 pm

    Hey Dworky,

    As our resident Al Mustafa help me find out why I’m not irate.

    On the one hand we have a painting, by an until now not widely known artist, of something which looks like a “SPEAR” on an image which roughly resembles Zuma.

    On the other we have direct comments from our Cabinet spokesman talking about over-concentrated coloureds and Indians who “bargained their way to the top”.

    I am not outraged and offended and annoyed and irate and in a march-to-burn-down-everything mood.

    Am I dead?

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Dmwangi,

    Are you there?

    Somewhere. Lurking in the shadows. Being lonely out there.

    While you’re feeling sorry for yourself, hurt, ashamed, offended, embarrassed and other bad things here’s something interesting.

    Are all AFRICANS all over Africa and across the world (alive, dead, not yet born) offended by this outrage?

    Should Gift Mafuka be jailed for life, tongue cut off, put to death or worse?

    Poking fun at Mugabe’s age is a no-no, as Jazi’s compatriot, Gift Mafuka, discovered two years ago when he was sentenced to one year in jail with hard labour after he asked two young boys why they were wearing T-shirts with the image of an old person with wrinkles on his face.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-24-many-states-will-imprison-those-who-insult-officials

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    May 31, 2012 at 8:08 am

    I think you inadvertently checked your rear-view mirror.

    You really should try make it a habit. Yes, I know it is a frightening prospect. Try practicing it in the garage a couple of hours first before you try it on the road.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Dworky

    I note with the utmost concern that no artist has shown us the privates of Carla Bruni – they only show us the men’s bits which means they’re all gay.

    At least some politicians in Europe are ex-porn stars so there should be a plethora of material about them. To the library then! All in the name of art of course…

    :)

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Maggs, I am no psychiatrist, but I can only imagine that you do not burn with fury and humiliation because there are no Indian “thought-leaders” to help you to understand that you and all Indians, living and dead, have, in fact, been gravely insulted. Also, because the CONTEXT is different. Ultimately, its all about CONTEXT.

    Ozoneboy will elaborate.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 9:11 am

    I think if anybody dared to paint Mahatma Ghandi munching on a bunny chow each and every Indian (but not Pakistanis cause they are clearly from a different race) would feel have good cause to feel offended.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 9:11 am

    Dworky,

    Now that you mention it, I do burn with fury. Often.

    Just last week a WHITE person overtook me on the freeway – I was on the left lane traveling at about 100 kph. It reminded me of the bad old days when WHITE people were entitled to jump the supermarket queues ahead of all Black people.

    I was also burning with fury when I look at a bench in a park – as you know, not so long ago no Blacks or dogs were allowed on those benches.

    p.s. @ Ozoneboy “Mahatma Ghandi munching on a bunny chow” – that would be highly offensive. Everyone knows that Gandhi did not eat a mutton.

    Also O’Boy – I got a new recipe for you – a soup bunny chow. Try it.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneboy

    I heard that bunnychow is made from actual bunnies.

    Is that true?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    May 31, 2012 at 9:33 am

    “Also O’Boy – I got a new recipe for you – a soup bunny chow. Try it.”

    I’m impressed. What a wonderful culinary innovation on the traditional. Now, especially for the health conscious white liberal, the delicious and nutritious bunnychow smoothie.

    Does that come with chips and a free coca cola?

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    The utter fucking shame and disgrace of a once proud liberation movement!

    The fact is Ferial Haffajee capitulated only because she feared for her personal safety and that of her staff and vendors, fear that was by no means ill-founded. In her own words: “Of course, the image is coming down from fear too. I’d be silly not to admit that … An ANC leader from my area on Twitter started a campaign of such disinformation I had to spend much of Saturday night quelling it. He knows where I live. What will he do next?”

    Those were her words: “What will he do next?”

    http://southafricareport.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/zuma-wins-a-pyrrhic-victory-in-the-spear-row-so-what-now/

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 9:33 am

    No the bunny is purely metaphorical. Just like a giant phallus on a satirical painting of a black man.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ozoneblue
    May 31, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Eish OB,

    Please don’t use “giant phallus” and “black man” in the same phrase, sentence, paragraph, document.

    It’s offensive.

    People will cry.

    Khosi will get pissed off.

    Zuma will be re-elected!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneblue

    “… health conscious white liberal …”

    Thank you for the information. However, I must demand that you desist from using the term “white.” The appropriate word is “whitish,” the adjectival form encompassing those who have a TENDENCY to be white. (“Whitism” is the noun form for the characteristic world-view of whitish people, while the noun “Whitist” refers to a person who actively promotes that world-view.)

    Hope this clears things up for you.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    One settler, lots of bullets!

    A woman — reportedly a local Boeremag leader — was arrested on a Carolina farm for being in possession of unlicensed ammunition and explosives, Mpumalanga police said on Thursday.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/05/31/mpumalanga-woman-arrested-for-explosives-bullets

    Another Tracey Chapman, “talking about the revolution”????

  • Gwebecimele

    Salaries for life!!!!!!!!
    Apparently this is one part of our constitution that is never comapared with other countries or global standards.There is a claim that judges in other countries do not get salaries for life.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/article5179083.ece

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 10:21 am

    I was more or less referring to Steve Biko’s use of the term “white liberal”. Being a “tribal” Afrikaner I have never really understood what he meant by that, but the more I read this blog, the more I understand.

    http://www.wolverton-mountain.com/articles/donald_woods_a_white_liberal_w.htm

    “However, covert racism is more difficult to deal with. This covert form is personified by the desire of some whites to do something for the black South Africans. In an earlier time, this idea was called “the white man’s burden.” White man’s burden or noblesse oblige (it sounds better in French) is the idea that whites have a moral obligation to bring civilization, culture, and Christianity to ignorant and uneducated savages dwelling on the “Dark Continent”. To be fair, many would not use this terminology, especially in more recent times. However, the underlying concept is that of white superiority over blacks.”

    I believe what we desperately need in South Africa are more white liberals *who know their place*.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Mlamli
  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    May 31, 2012 at 11:08 am

    You really can’t blame some of the more simple-minded and Boorish amongst us to feel that all these “freedoms” they never fought for and now entrenched in the Constitution could in fact stir a bloody civil war.

    “One of the men accused of defacing “The Spear” artwork said he did it to defuse a situation that could have turned into a race war. There are people’s lives in danger, the racial tension is there and people don’t realise what this can lead to”, a resolute Barend la Grange told the Mail & Guardian outside the Hillbrow Magistrate’s Court.”

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-23-zuma-painting-defaced-to-prevent-civil-war/

  • Gwebecimele

    We are about to hit the campaign season, Who wants to stand infront of the Zunami???

    http://dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2012-05-31-zwelinzima-vavi-political-consciousness-leaves-quietly

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneboy

    “simple-minded and Boorish …”

    You mean “Boerish, I assume.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    14 February 1994.

    Times are a’changing.

    Culture as we know is not static!

    In welcoming you to the shores of our country I wish also to express our collective thanks, as South Africans, for the support our struggle for democracy has received from the international media. During the darkest days of apartheid and political repression, when thousands of South African patriots faced imprisonment, bannings, house arrest, detention without trial,torture and even death, it was the international media, not least its oldest component, the press, that laid bare the atrocious conditions in our country and kept the international community alive to the issue of apartheid.

    You also lent your voices to those of thousands of our compatriots demanding freedom of expression. South African writers, artists and journalists, who incurred the wrath of the South African government for daring to use their skills against tyranny, have invariably won your support. The South African media, journalists and publishers alike, will remain in your debt for that sustenance. …

    I have often said that the media are a mirror through which we can see ourselves as others perceive us, warts, blemishes and all. The African National Congress has nothing to fear from criticism. I can promise you, we will not wilt under close scrutiny. It is our considered view that such criticism can only help us to grow, by calling attention to those of our actions and omissions which do not measure up to our people’s expectations and the democratic values to which we subscribe.

    http://blogs.businessday.co.za/peterbruce/2010/08/01/nelson-mandelas-view-of-press-freedom-read-before-you-leap/

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    May 31, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Excellent link and I agree.

    @Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Same banana, different skin.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hmmm!

    I can see where the ANC now gets it’s philosophy from.

    ‘In our country’, said Mr. Justice Boshoff, ‘we have democratic regime norms, and freedom of speech and assembly play an important part in our party system, which is based on opposing views and consequent dispute of ideas. . . While freedom of speech and assembly must be regarded as fundamental in our democratic society, it does not mean that everyone with opinions or beliefs to express may address a group at any public place and at any time’.

    http://www.sahistory.org.za/archive/iii-black-consciousness

  • Mike

    @Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder – Once again you cannoy keep to the point made and that was “whites imprisoned Mandela”.The continuation of Mandela’s imprisonment was not the point being made but but why then are whites under the age of 42 years subject to AA racism.

  • Mike

    @Mikhail Dworkin Fassbeinder – A separate question that I ask you which a black person has never given an asnswer for is why did your nations not rise up and join the Afrikaner in his war against the British.Every person in the country was subject to colonial rule so why did you not join in instead of leaving it up to the Afrikaner to be decimated.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    OK, but remember that Mr Mandela was also well aware of the hazards posed by the independent press. In 1996 he noted there were black journalists “who regret we have destroyed white supremacy in this country”. Also, he accused the press of RACISM for criticizing the spending of R10m on an anti-AIDS play.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mandela-turns-on-hostile-media-1356173.html

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Mike

    “why did your nations not rise up and join the Afrikaner in his war against the British?”

    With respect, Mike, in 1900 we Slovenians were too busy struggling to liberate ourselves from the Austro-Hungarian Empire to assist very much in the struggle against British Imperialism in Southern Africa!

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    So Dworky,

    Mr. Justice Boshoff was right?

    God bless his soul if he’s dead.

    If he’s alive – give that man a Bells!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    “In 1996 he noted there were black journalists “who regret we have destroyed white supremacy in this country”.

    LOL. He didn’t mention the constitutional experts? That was the good old days when NASPERS was still NASPERS, M&G was still considered an ally of the Struggle, and Ferial Haffajee was still a rising star of the “liberal” English press.

  • Mike

    @MDF – I very much doubt that in 1900 the average slovenians knew where South Africa was but as you have chosen to debate SA issues why not give it a try, try answering my question.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    May 31, 2012 at 13:17 pm

    Mike,

    “I very much doubt that in 1900 the average slovenians”

    By the 1900 god had not yet invented “average slovenians”.

    Actually god only got around to inventing stuff during the last round of nominations for CJ.

    Before that god, as JR told us, would sit around under the trees scratching his balls watching his chickens dig in the dirt!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Yeesh. Thanks for that link mfd. Sometimes I feel like I’m channelling Madiba.

    “”The current trend is very worrying,” said Khulu Sibiya, editor of City Press, yesterday. “The handling of recent political controversies and the hostility to the press do not augur well.” Last week the President summoned him to ANC headquarters for a dressing down about an editorial which criticised the President’s “unnecessary” interference in the controversial selection of a new chief justice.

    “I have never seen him so furious,” said Mr Sibiya, who has also criticised the ANC handling of Holomisa and the Aids scandal.Mr Sibiya says the ANC is ignoring the fact that most City Press’s stories are positive towards the ANC.

    The difficulty of meeting the public’s unrealistic expectations may help explain President Mandela’s hostility to the press and his intolerance towards those who break party ranks. At the weekend he warned black journalists who criticised the government for failing to improve social conditions while focussing too hard on racial reconciliation, that they failed to appreciate what had happened in the country. They were wrong to think that “whites were lying on their stomachs begging for mercy”; they still had to be prevented from running into the arms of the right wing.

    The President warned there were still problems which could lead to a blood bath in South Africa if they were not handled with care.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mandela-turns-on-hostile-media-1356173.html

  • Zoo Keeper

    Mike

    Be cautious when viewing history through a modern lense.

    In 1898, South Africa did not exist. Everybody was looking after their own territories.

    Black tribes in SA have a long history of revolt against English and Boer colonization.

    Pre 1899 the Zulus had lost heavily to the British at Ulundi in 1879 and were in disagreement with the Boers over the Vryheid area, the Xhosa had fought numerous wars – 14 I think – against the British since 1820; the Basotho had sought British Protectorate status against the Boers (nobody ever conquered the Basotho or Xhosa by the way).

    Up north in the Boer territories the Boers had only just finished subjugating the Sothos and Venda.

    Certainly the black tribes had no incentive, nor wish to fight with one of the parties who had just finished them off.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Zooks is right. You must always consider the historical context.

    In 1898, the Slovenian National Liberation Front (SNLF), was a tiny insurgent militia, armed mainly with crossbows and talcum powder. It was no match for the Austrian Imperial armies and their paid Hussars. With respect to you Mike, it is ridiculous to suggest that the SNLF should have trekked across the length of Africa to help Kruger — who was a foul racist anyway!

    Thanks.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    May 31, 2012 at 14:00 pm

    Dworky,

    What’s with the Liberation Movement stuff?

    Were you also in the struggle????

    p.s. And stop making up tales about coming from Slovenia.

    You told us elsewhere that you were from Armageddon!

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Gwebecimele
    May 31, 2012 at 14:02 pm

    it was discovered that Soni had failed to disclose that, back in 2008, he had acted for Thint, the local subsidiary of French arms company Thales.

    Well he didn’t join the struggle to be poor!

  • Mike

    @Zoo Keeper – well that is just my point because ANC history goes back to 1948 and like you said South Africa did not exist before 1912.
    T

  • Mike

    @zoo keeper continued – So the Afrikaner goes to war against the British, gets decimated through the concentration camps and scorched earth policy by the Brits and then ends up in 1912 with a mandate to govern what is now the new South Africa (in 1912 of course)
    The issue here is that SA is a land of contradictions and it does benefit the future of this country to make decisions about the future by applying history selectively.What was the Balkan war about, simply revenge by SERBIA for an invasion and deliberate rape and inpregnation of women by the Moslems some 400 years before that.

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    President Zuma arrives at Heathrow to a warm and dignified reception from the Queen.

    They are driven in a 1934 Bentley to the edge of central London, where they change to a magnificent 17th century carriage hitched to six white horses. They continue on towards Buckingham Palace, waving to the thousands of cheering Britons; all is going well.

    Suddenly the right rear horse lets fly with the most horrendous earth shattering fart.

    The smell is atrocious and both passengers in the carriage must use handkerchiefs over their noses.

    The Queen turns to President Zuma, ” Mr. President, please accept my regrets. I am sure you understand there are some things that even a Queen cannot control.”

    Zuma, always trying to be “Presidential,” replied: “Your Majesty, do not give the matter another thought…until you mentioned it, I thought it was one of the horses.”

  • Zoo Keeper

    Mike

    The ANC was started in 1912 under another name, South Africa having come into existence in 1910 with the Act of Union.

    Blacks tied to get recognition but were denied by the Brits and Boers. Only real voting rights remained with the Cape coloured community, with a franchise qualification requirement of land ownership, which was finally removed under Apartheid after the Nats packed the Appeal Court to stop opposition to the legislation.

  • Pingback: The spear, a penis and some other random pictures… « That place in my head()

  • Mike

    @Zoo Keeper – thanks I am aware of that part of history.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Zoo Keeper
    May 31, 2012 at 15:18 pm

    “with a franchise qualification *requirement of land ownership*”

    Let that be well understood and noted in the context of the true nature of the Struggle, the Spear and Vladimir Lenin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hut_tax

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “The colonial economy depended upon black African labour to build new towns and railways, and in southern Africa to work in the rapidly developing mines.”

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    What’s your take on Lenin?

  • sirjay jonson

    The land of the Spear, where we all ultimately come from, and on occasion return to.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=P9Fyey4D5hg

  • sirjay jonson

    Apologies, I blew it: the link I copied came up with, when I checked, what could become a famous Jack Russel. Actually the link I posted was of a true depiction of the Africa we are, and the Africa we come from.

    However, enjoy the Russel.

  • sirjay jonson

    Jonathen Jansen calls this moment in SAfrican evolution, the evolving dilemma as an evolving opportunity, (my words, not his) but titled the ‘burning spear’. How apt.

  • sirjay jonson

    As an afterthought re JZ’s dignity and free expression as protected by the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa:

    Aristotle:
    Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them.

    Ad captandum vulgus

  • sirjay jonson

    For those not so familiar with Latin

    Ad captandum vulgus

    Meaning….

    ‘To appeal to the crowd — often used by politicians who make false or insincere promises appealing to popular interest.’

    Did anyone notice the backdrop at the Goodman for the Press Conference yesterday?

    Essers brilliantly chose as a gallery wall backdrop to the conference:

    “Promises, Promises, Promises.” Jackson, you missed this.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    sirjay jonson
    May 31, 2012 at 19:46 pm

    Did it every occur to you that normal people don’t understand Roman?

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Maybe – but we won the bulk of the SKA!

    Collapsing infrastructure, and non-existent laboratories and libraries, have rendered South Africa’s education system a national disgrace.

    With South Africa’s 12-year-olds ranked among the worst in Africa in terms of literacy and maths, experts believe a grave disservice is being done to the country’s future generations.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/06/01/education-system-a-national-disgrace

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    As always FUCK THE POOR!

    South Africa’s dignity is preserved entirely in Zuma’s dick.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2012/06/01/600-pupils-forced-to-share-two-pit-latrines

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    June 1, 2012 at 7:28 am

    I have tried to explain to you many, many times why this is happening. That is because you do not *want to hear* the answer because of your own racist attitude and obsession with retribution.

    “The document highlights Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo as the worst provinces in terms of provision of computer centres, laboratories, libraries and water-supply systems.”

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2012/04/20/public-works-admits-it-s-a-disaster

    “He said geography or sociology graduates were promoted to manage engineers “when they know nothing about engineering”. “We don’t deploy the right skills in the correct areas.”

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ozoneblue
    June 1, 2012 at 7:42 am

    So OB,

    “I have tried to explain to you many, many times why this is happening. That is because you do not *want to hear* the answer because of your own racist attitude and obsession with retribution.”

    Education in our country is a disaster, 600 kids share two pit latrines because, er, ummm …. I have a racist attitude and am obsessed with retribution?????

  • Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Enough of this born-free nonsense! I say it depends where you were born. A child born in Alex-Joburg and a child born in Sandton same day, same year (1995) were born free of what? Their parents will probably raise them under the same socio-economic conditions they’ve both inherited. They will be raised under the same influences their parents have brought forth from the apartheid era….Born free but raised by the same unfree, racist, prejudicial, unchanged bigots! Where’s freedom in that????

    Xolani Majola (1 June 2012)

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    June 1, 2012 at 8:02 am

    It is OK. you can continue with your denialism. The failure of the ANC is also failure of the nation and the failure of a politically correct dogma that has overtaken each and every facet of public and civil life i.e. the racial politics of the socalled NDR. We stubbornly refuse to link the cause and the effect.

    “Mbeki says the [mostly white] “capitalists” need to be brought into the political sphere to secure development.

    “We have a unique political system in South Africa. It’s controlled by the black middle class [political elite], but it has an alliance with the poor or the under-class,” Mbeki said.

    The objective of the political elite was to maximise consumption of the black middle class and to retain the monopoly on political power.

    However, its weakness was that it depended on the vote of the under-class, which did not own productive assets, he said.

    “The ANC has been driving a consumer revolution at the expense of production.”

    I do not agree with Moeletsi Mbeki stance towards the working class and Cosatu, but he is very accurate in identifying our main problem.

    http://www.ecr.co.za/kagiso/content/en/east-coast-radio/east-coast-radio-news?oid=1625925&sn=Detail&pid=6028&SA-becoming-a-welfare-state–Mbeki

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – ABZ! – Zuma must go (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    June 1, 2012 at 8:09 am

    “Enough of this born-free nonsense!”

    Just more background noise and rhetorical whining. Doesn’t bring anybody closer to a solution.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “The objective of the political elite [is] to maximise consumption of the black middle class and to retain the monopoly on political power.”

    Moeletsi Mbeki

    So stop blaming this on “racist Whites”. And it is not only Jacob Zuma or the ANC that is guilty of this, it is the entire Black upper/middle class and their white compatriots that has prioritised their own entitlement above that of the impoverished masses.

    So dear maggs – that is why you and many others posting here are part of the problem. When you are pointing a finger at Jacob Zuma and or the ANC, there are four fingers pointing back at yourselves.

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    June 1, 2012 at 8:34 am
    “The ANC has been driving a consumer revolution at the expense of production.”

    Yes, I said that almost verbatim first – here!

    Maggs, ignore OBS and see how many boxes you can check if you apply Naomi Wolf’s checklist to South Africa:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    “It has been found that the average current age of an artisan is 55 years .”

    Same goes for other technical skills including engineers, technicians and project managers. They are those “racist Whites”, many of them enrolled with the “right-wing” Solidarity without whom this country’s relatively good infrastructure will collapse, absolutely no doubt.

    http://www.ecr.co.za/kagiso/content/en/east-coast-radio/east-coast-radio-news?oid=1090460&sn=Detail&SA-engineers-%27recalled%27

  • Brett Nortje

    Is De Vos awol? Anyone seen a leave-form?

  • Gwebecimele

    It is that season again and there is nothing that can stop the Zunami.
    Watch Vavi and others carefully. One by one they will fall at the feet othe Zunami.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Toll-delay-not-a-suggestion-Cosatu-20120531

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-31-numsa-supports-zuma-inc

  • Gwebecimele

    Good decision from cabinet. This country is not up for sale.

    http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=173182

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    June 1, 2012 at 11:06 am

    I told you so. Mags is going to owe me a big apology.

    I do a lot of work for PWD. There are clear and visible improvements in many areas. I don’t really care what the size of the prez. penis is – or whether we have the “freedom” to publish presentations of it online. That is the kind of decadent bullshit some very privileged people who have nothing better to do but whine about everything are obsessed about but it pretty fucking irrelevant.

    The Zuma government has brought about a change in attitude and policies of which the fruits will only become visible during the next couple of years. Zuma must stay.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ OB

    “The Zuma government has brought about a change in attitude and policies of which the fruits will only become visible during the next couple of years. ”

    OB is right.

    I too have noticed small but significant improvements that, when aggregated and elaborated, add up to what I call a ZUMNAMI , of cascading benefits for all!

    Thanks.

  • Sine

    I am not aware of the part of my history (black) wherein we murdered the San and the Khoi people. What I do remember is that there were clashes due to the fact that the San and the Khoi people were “hunting” our cattle since they were nomadic hunters. This brings me to my second issue. I read some other comment to the effect that blacks in SA drove away the San and the Khoi people and took their land, ala British and Boeres. I am confused as to the San and Khoi ownership of the land in SA. Last I checked the San and the Khoi people were nomads who lived wherever the animals they were hunting were at the time. They may have arrived in SA first but they did not “settle” in SA. They were merely on their way and tracking or hunting the animals who were on the move to better grazing land. We being farmers, on the other hand, actually settled in SA, especially along rivers which had green grass for our cattle and water for our subsistence farming. Is my understanding wrong?

  • Michael Osborne

    @ Sine

    [Sand and Khoi] … may have arrived in SA first but they did not “settle” in SA. They were merely on their way and tracking or hunting”

    Funny, but this sounds so much like the kind of rationalisation for colonialism one hears from European settlers. They always believe that the locals (native Americans, Aboriginals, Maori, etc), had no concept of the “ownership” of land per se, so it is meaningless to say that the settlers “took” their land away from them.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ ozoneblue

    Sine
    June 1, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    “I am not aware of the part of my history (black) wherein we murdered the San and the Khoi people.”

    Interesting statement. I’m just curious, from a Black Consciousness pov, who do you mean when you say “we”?

  • Sine

    @Michael Osborne

    LOL. I understand your concern. However, I am not arguing here that the San and Khoi people had no concept of the ownership of land which was different from us blacks but they never exhibited an intention to be tied down to a particular piece or pieces of land. In fact, their nomadic life exhibits a contrary intention. As for the colonisers, theirs is a different story. You cannot argue that blacks had no concept of land ownership despite the fact that blacks were farming cattle on the land, growing crops on it and cultivating traditional medicines thereon. For all intents and purposes, blacks were settled on the land. So Basically, the colonisers are in fact arguing that the concept of land of ownership of blacks, due to it not being formal, was not enough according to the colonisers to confer ownership. The story is completely different for people who were actually not settling in any area. The San and Khoi people did not even build houses and they lived under trees and caves, depending on the types of animals they were chasing after at the time.

  • Sine

    @Ozoneblue

    I meant Xhosa people bro. I am Xhosa as well, lest you were wondering.

  • Michael Osborne

    Sine, I take your point about Nguni-speaking people having a system of (collective) land ownership.

    But, as you pointed out, the San and Khoi were different in this regard. What surprised me was that you were citing that fact in defense of Nguni-speaking occupation of Khoi and San land in a way that sounded similar to the manner in which Americans and Australians justified their occupations of Native American and Aboriginal lands, the latter groups also being hunter-gatherers.

  • Brett Nortje

    Gwebecimele says:
    June 1, 2012 at 11:24 am

    While Standard Bank’s Board was voting Jacko Maree huge bonusses my uncle and other Standard Bank pensioners who worked there their whole lives were getting 2% increases.

  • Paul Kearney

    Good memory Sine “What I do remember is that there were clashes due to the fact that the San and the Khoi people were “hunting” our cattle since they were nomadic hunters”. What San people do you personally “remember”? The poor buggers from 32 Battalion?