Readers of this Blog have been arguing about being an “African” and referred to President Thabo Mbeki’s very famous and moving speech he made in the late 1990’s called “I am an African”. I post it here also for those who yearn for the days when we could all be so proud of our President, before HIV/AIDS, “no crisis” Zimbabwe, the “ultra left”, Vusi Pikoli and Jackie Selebi, sullied his reputation. Those were the days when our President gave me tears in my eyes for all the right reasons.
This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos
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Thank you, Pierre.
Do not worry too much though, he will make you cry once more. Just wait until the burden of running this ungrateful country is lifted from his shoulders.
I remember mathematics in my school days. What I was always aware of was that if I was doing an equation, it did not matter how right my steps 2 to 10 were – if my step 1 was wrong, the result would also be incorrect. Every day the world is coming to accept that the first step, which was taken by science in dealing with AIDS, may not have been the correct one. Otherwise what would be the reason, at this day and age, for a solution on a sickness to be so elusive?
Africans across the continent (especially black South Africans) will remember TM for this simple yet extremely endorsing gesture. An African icon uSis Brenda Fassie was lying in hear death bed and the media was running stories day in and day out about her lifestyle and how she threw all away. All of this while she is lying in her bed leaving us. Many of us accepted the stories and many bewildered and some protested. TM went to Sunninghill hospital to visit her and later went to the funeral. All the while reminding us what Brenda had meant to oppressed Africans at their darkest hour. A simple gesture that gave Brenda Fassie’s legacy an Presidential Stamp of Approval at the time when the vultures had already started tearing away at it(Brendas legacy).
The Pikoli, Selibe, Zimbabwe issues will unravel themselves sooner and he will be vindicated.
A day will come when you will say – ‘I Pierre de Vos, wish I could have seen things clearer, sooner’. And Pierre YOU WILL CRY. I for one cannot wait to see that constraints on him removed and we can start seeing his Faro like status.
Khosi,
As soon as Pierre posted this I thought of you. I thought, Khosi must be sharpening his spear wherever he is. Sometimes I get the distinct impression that Pierre and other well-meaning and sensible readers of this blog, just want to tease you. But seriously Khosi, what did white people do to make you this bitter?
Khosi, have you noticed that Pierre and others (including myself) who vehemently criticised Zuma and his friends are now beginning to do an about-turn (changing their minds) on Zuma. First, he went out and got us proof that poverty in this country was rapidly changing in colour. That white people were becoming increasingly poor too. Secondly, he came out and condemned the delay in announcing the results in Zimbabwe. Lately has been talking about improving the condititons of and increasing the salaries of health and education practitioners, two sectors crucial to the social and economic development of this country. And Pierre thinks Zuma will usher in a leadership based on collective wisdom, making him a better alternative to the current leadership. For me all this proves that no one is condemning or hating anyone. But people comment on statements by or conduct of our leaders as these appear in the public domain. I also remember hearing people say certain decisions/actions by Thabo Mbeki were eroding the little of what they thought was left of his legacy. For me, this means people are proud of certain of Thabo Mbeki’s decision/actions.
Is it me choosing to see the only the positive in people, or am I simply naive?
I am wondering how sincere this words (speech) was at the time. Cause now, one can safely assume it was only words on paper (action speak louder than words). I would like to perceive myself as being human instead of being ‘African’ cause the term has be been politicise to much.
Siya,
Who used to sing the song ‘who’s fooling who? are you fooling me? or am i fooling you?’
Siya, seriously though
Committes never get much done. In fact, i would love JZ more if and when he become our president, he took decision with minimal influence. What this will avoid is situations like with ESKOM when we were told of collective decisions.
What you should never forget is the symbolism of someone like TM. For all his failures(yes i said it), his biggest one is that TM want Africa to become a super power, once more. It is not in the interest of the Western power to let that happen. The killed Biko they are trying to do the same with TM. It was quite befitting that the Biko foundation chose TM to delivery the memorial on Biko’s biggest celebrations yet. Good riddens that the got rid of that Mangcu chap.
All said, I rootly believe what I write about TM and I am sorry the it embarrases you sometimes. I will not stop writing it and you have a right to be against it.
“And Pierre thinks Zuma will usher in a leadership based on collective wisdom, making him a better alternative to the current leadership.”
I’d like to comment again on the Zuma vs Mbeki thing. Well more on Zuma’s increasing positive appeal to some.
In an interview on television, Phosa was answering questions on Zuma’s capability to lead. He said that Zuma cannot lead alone, that the ANC will provide a strong team for him.
This can go in different directions of which some could be:
1. Zuma indeed has a strong team and builds on a collective leadership platform.
2. The “team” becomes the ones with real power (eg. Some have asserted George Bush to merely be the “cheerleader” and not the real driver.) This can be positive and negative depending on the team’s intentions and how they handle their newfound power base.
3. Zuma enjoys his new found status and power, and his power to excite the masses, steadily starting to assert himself more, overriding the team. (Many historical precedents of new leaders with proclaimed good intentions, going that route).
By no means all possible scenario’s. In many countries a coup was lead by some junior or senior officers in the military to “stamp out the rampant corruption” amongst the politicians, vowing to step down soon after they have “restored order”, only to eventually become the same corrupted dictators they sought to overthrow, many a politicians campaign was based on the same.
What is the purpose of my post?
I want to just put some extra thoughts on the table, and especially that while you are campaigning for office or for support, you mostly try to put your best foot forward.
I have been wondering a lot lately about how keeping a close eye on the news can become a rollercoaster ride. How can the same person bring tears to your eyes one year and the next, be a disappointment? Or be vilified the one day and warmed up to the next? Are we expecting too much from them? Or do we think we know them, when in actual fact we don’t know them as well as we think? After all we see them through the lens of public speech and action, by no means a complete picture of a person, though not incomplete either.
Siya,
I justs re-read you post 5 times and I find it embarrasing that another African wrote it. Not because of your view, but the lack of construct of the view. It almost like someone thought it up for you.
In fact, let me embarras you some more. I am going to start a blog only dedicated to TM.
Khosi, having listened to the speech (again – I’ve forgotten that I heard it at the time, but it obviously did not have such a huge impact on me as on you because it much states the obvious); and, applying what TM has said mutatis mutandis to my case, I can proclaim that I am indeed an African. A white (minority) Afrikaans-, English-, Zulu-, Xhosa-, Sipedi and Shangaan-speaking (South) African, and I’m proud of it. But that does not make me proud of what TM has said (or refrained to say) and did (or refrained from doing) during the past few years in respect of HIV/Aids, Zimbabwe, Jacob Zuma, Vusi Pikoli, Selebi, the Scorpions etc.
z, you beaut
Rat, we need more of you. From your brief cv, you seem the model of what white can be in this country. If I had TM’s ear I would tell him to exempt white males like you from AA. TM loves you and fights for you too despite you distaste for him.
Pierre,
Do you think you can organise the speech TM made at the Biko 30th memorial?
Anonymouse,
Yes there was a time when one started to feel proudly South African or Afrikaner. But those were the Mandela years.
These last years of ANSleaze – rule and Africanist protection of Mugabe no matter what harm he inflicts on his people, has convinced me that I should not disgrace myself to refer to myself as Afrikaner but (American – style) should refer to myself, and teach my children to think of themselves, as Euro-African or Euro-Afrikaner.
Khosi,
I am taking your criticism in my stride. I guess we are standing for different things, Khosi. I am standing for the truth, and my truth is colourless – much like what Desmond Tutu, Alby Sachs and Madiba – stand and stood for. You stand for the truth, and your truth is black and black only. I guess that disqualifies me and people like Madiba and Tutu from being Africans. You are something, Khosi, do you know that?
About the lack of construct in my post, let me see. I blame it on the lack of proper elementary education. Believe it or not, Khosi, I got my elementary education in the villages of Cofimvaba (EC). Sometimes I am proud if it, other times I feel like I was robbed, much like now. Is it the elementary education, or am I plain stupid. You decide, Khosi. And no, someone did not think it up for me.
And no, Khosi, you do not embarras me. You are an adult (hopefully) and you have chosen how to see the world. You appear like someone who is championing a cause, and believes its an important cause. I respect you for that. And I am not fooling you, Khosi, its the truth.
By the way, I am not one given to personal attacks, as I fail to see what they achieve. So if your next post takes on this character, I may just not respond.
Siya,
You are now feeling all of your emotions out on this blog. Do your self a favour, put them back in and start thinking. You are a native African forever to be condemned to the darkest parts of this earth. TM fights every day so that the little light you see becomes brighter. In our context(natives), idealism is a foolish state of mind to have. I am sorry about the fact that you deplore the education you got. It was the product of the oppresor, do not forget that. But look on the bright side – Cofimvaba is a beautiful place and I am sure you’re beautiful too, ebony man!
Thabu Mbeki is not the inheritor of Biko’s legacy and he never was. I too now belive that this speech was just expediency. Just like the smiling warm Mbeki at Dakar. Gevisser alludes to as much.
And Mbeki is by no means the only person that wants Africa to become a power. In rhetoric perhaps, not in action.
Just one practical example – It’s during his tenure that Anglo and Old mutual are now listed on the London stock exchange! It’s during his tenure that we have to import engineers, and have the French sort out our power provision.
Intelectually? What is it that Mbeki said and did that makes you make the link with Biko? Where is the similarity with Biko’s thought?
Apologies that should have read Thabo
Nice poetic speech though
Wessel,
I asked you why you want me to read Biko, you have not answered. And who said that TM is the inheritor of Biko’s legacy?
About where the similarity lies, go and ask the Biko Foundation why they felt the need to have TM ask the person who gives the main memorial on such an important day(termed 30-30) in Biko’s memory. They could have gotten anyone but they chose him.
On Anglo and Old Mutual,
I see nothing wrong with Africans leveraging the assets on their land so that European money to develop the country and finance BEE deals.
I answered you on the other post a minute ago.
You liked what Mbeki said in that speech about Biko?
Well this is what Xolela Mangcu made of all that in reference to Suresh Roberts.
“But the real reason Roberts does not go into black political and intellectual history is that he would discover that Mbeki held the black consciousness movement in utter contempt. A few interviews would have revealed that Mbeki attacked the black consciousness movement for not understanding “the causes and consequences of history”.
I suppose that would present a methodological problem in an intellectual enterprise in which the author has to rely on the subject of the research for peer review.
Roberts tries to shy away from this by suggesting that Mbeki has recognised the black consciousness movement by appointing certain black consciousness individuals into his cabinet. Political analysis does not get shallower than that.
Yes, Mbeki went down to East London to sing praises to Steve Biko — 13 long years into our democracy. It is indeed not without reason that the campaign season is often called the silly season. The title of the book, Fit to Govern, will probably be the bumper sticker for Mbeki’s re-election campaign.
The problem of course is that Roberts is spending so much time convincing white people that he ignores the people who really think his subject is not fit to govern — the natives within the ANC. I suppose white people will always be a convenient diversion for racial populists.
I always feel heart sore when people misappropriate and distort Biko’s message to defend their racial chauvinism. It was perhaps in anticipation of this that Biko wrote his thoughts down.
Biko had a message for black people in his brilliant essay, Black Consciousness and the Quest for a True Humanity. This is what this intellectual and political giant said: “Blacks have had enough experience as objects of racism not to wish to turn the tables.
“While it may be relevant now to talk about black in relation to white, we must not make this our preoccupation, for it can be a negative exercise. As we proceed further towards the achievement of our goals let us talk more about ourselves and our struggle and less about whites.” ”
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A498028
The Biko Foundation are either morons or ass lickers or both. Seem to have allot of them in this country. Yes Mr. President, how high Mr. President? Shall I bend over while you *&% me some more?
You have not actually read Biko have you?
What a lively discussion! Personally I think, Khosi, that there is a false dichotomy at the heart of your position. Either one is for TM and therefore against the arrogant and imperialistic colonisation of Africa and Africans by the West, or one is against him and thus for all the above. It seems to me the tragedy of TM is exactly that while he is so genuinely concerned about Africa and the exploitation of Africa by the powerful West, he often also acts according to this false dichotomy and thus often acts as the prisoner of the West, instead of transcending it. If one’s every move is based on what the other side would not do, one is always reacting instead of taking control of one’s own destiny and boldly asserting and identity and a course of action that is not determined by others and what they might have said or done, but instead by what is right and good.
Maybe we should have a more nuanced debate about what is right and good for us and for our continent. In such a debate I would begin to argue that it is disastrous for us Africans to always protect our own just because they are opposed to the West or white interest or whatever one’s bogey man might be. That is how I understand Biko at least. I do not see that attitude in TM. This is sad. Maybe it is a tragedy.
>>On Anglo and Old Mutual,
>>I see nothing wrong with Africans leveraging the assets on their >>land so that European money to develop the country and finance >>BEE deals.
Oh yes, thats what Malaysia, and China, and South Korea did right? Allow there biggest companies to take their capital off shore. Wrong
Well, my father force-feed Biko to me. But I will not sully his great legacy by engaging in debates, about his work, with people who denegrade his legacy just because the custodians of his legacy chose to allocate chose to give an important podium to the person who wildly believed to be forwarding the cause he died for. That is raw colonial thinking.
Earlier I said ‘they killed Biko’ and you have just proven that you have no wish to see his legacy continue.
You are not worth my time.
You obviously were paying attention.
Pierre,
You are wrong. Let me give you one recent example. Less than a month ago, South Africa chaired the UN Security Council. I do not recall the exact agenda item but it had much to do with the establishment of an UN-African peace keeping force and missions. But suffice to say it was a very important day for Africans. Then came Britain(colonialiser of Africa) and insisted on the inclusion of Zimbabwe, a former colony who has decided to .
Pierre,
You are wrong. Let me give you one recent example. Less than a month ago, South Africa chaired the UN Security Council. I do not recall the exact agenda item but it had much to do with the establishment of an UN-African peace keeping force and missions. But suffice to say it was a very important day for Africans. Then came Britain(colonialiser of Africa) and insisted on the inclusion of Zimbabwe, a former colony who has decided to gatecrash the session and arrogantly put Zimbabwe on the agenda. That might seem noble but fast-forward a week later. Britain is chairing the very Security council and they refuse to allow Zimbabwe into the agenda. They argue the same points as South Africans did.
It is this mischief that will not allow Africans, however well-meaning, to be fully accountable for their destiny. The frustration is that the West will not let us Africans be.
Had Biko been still alive, his very outlook would be aligned to this order.
One thing’s for certain: there will never be another Thabo Mbeki. I hope uKhosi is right when he suggests that Mbeki will reinvent himself in another capacity when his time as SA’s president is up. One always had the feeling he never really enjoyed being the president as much as he thought he would. He didn’t deserve all the flying chairs that came his way. He still has more support now than some people think.
As for a Zuma presidency, I have misgivings. Zuma is popular mainly because a part of the population wants to give the finger to the ‘lezifundiswa’ – the educated elite. For their sakes, I hope they will not be too disappointed.
Khosi
Can you provide some links about: “Britain is chairing the very Security council and they refuse to allow Zimbabwe into the agenda.”?
I couldn’t find any references to that event on a quick search and thought you might have some.
I think Pierre made some valid points such as “Maybe we should have a more nuanced debate”.
Khosi it does at times seem that you express a kind of either for us or against us, kind of view at times. But it is also easy to come across that way when one is passionate about something. I’ve also seen it when people feel that they are not being heard, that they need to put things in more absolute terms. Not that I claim to know your case.
Wessel and Khosi, you guys seem to be getting upset a bit Forgive me if I’m wrong, but if we could keep discussion civil and acknowledge one another we might get past defensive/attacking positions, to that nuanced debate Pierre was mentioning.
Siya, I like the calmness you bring to the table.
I am really enjoying this blog, and think it has a good dispersion of view points within a relatively small number of commentators. Not wanting to hijack the blog as it belongs to its owner, I would like to see us coming to an appreciation of one another’s view points, and maybe even adapting our own? This I say with due respect that anyone has the right to get angry, emotional etc, this I say merely in that I would like to see everyone continue to participate.
Flame me if this is too sixties, flower childish.
Khosi, one thing in TM’s speech grasped me, that he is a (declared) descendant of King Sekhukhune, ‘the mighty warrior’. Sekhukhune was never a mighty warrior – Chaka, on the other hand, was. Whatever, Prof de Vos, I’m glad you talk about ‘us Africans’, because that is what I am, with an ancestory of seven or more generations of native South Africans, about as much as any Xhosa, Zulu or Bapedi, with a proud history of opposing collonialism by those whose language we use here. I am still proudly African (or rather South African), and I believe we still have a bright (free and prosperous) future ahead of us, despite the current ‘leader shortage’, with a black (or white, or brown) African leader (who is not bent on race) to lead and protect us in a way that is comanded by the Constitution we all so dearly fought (and died – tongue in the cheek from ‘Flower of Scotland’) for. ‘I have a dream’, as Martin Luther King said, and I hope it does not turn into a nightmare,
Rat,
The reason I referred you to that speech is because I wanted to show you that TM views white people of Afrikaner descent as Africans too. TM is not a racist, he just hates being told he or any African is inferior.
z said
> I am really enjoying this blog, and think it has a good dispersion of view points
Thats true. And I like the fact that its at times robust. But I take your point z.
Khosi, I’m sorry if I offended you, but I’m not sure what exactly that I said did offend.
I will try and be more ‘nuanced’.
PS: Pierre you too could do well to pay more attention to what Biko said.
Martin Luther King Jr, 1967: “Here is the true meaning and value of compassion and non-violence, when it helps us to see the enemies point of view, to hear his questions, to know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn and grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the opposition.”
Wessel.
Robustness is good, strong argumentation is good. I have also been that way on this blog. I just wanted the discussion to remain open, so that we keep at it and no one retreats, because then there is no discussion any more.
Khosi
If white people are also Africans according to TM, do you think that those who agree theoretically actually integrate that into their thinking patterns? In other words, when you say God bless Africans or God save Africans, do you include white Africans in that, especially at the time you said it?
Oh and I asked previously: Can you provide some links about: “Britain is chairing the very Security council and they refuse to allow Zimbabwe into the agenda.”?
I am asking out of real interest.
All
White South Africans are often portrayed as Europeans. Yet many (most?) have so little culturally in common with Europeans, especially Afrikaners, who often don’t have current direct links to Europe. Not that there really is a European culture, there may be some commonly held values, but there are just as many contested values, which is clear by just looking at the values championed by the different political parties in different countries.
I have a few times heard debates where people say no white person can be an African, and they so sadden me, because were that to be a majority view, which hopefully it is not, but if it were, I would effectively not belong in any country or continent. Is it just punishment for the sins of my Fathers? Maybe. But regardless of whether I am an African or not, I hope we can come to a place of better understanding and respect for one another.
“Friends, on occasions such as these, we should, perhaps, start from the beginning. So let me begin…….. I am an African” – T.M.
And one knew that Africa’s stage was being set. As Africans I believe we are much better of than the day those words were spoken. We have problems but we are working our way through them. People will highlight issues such as stubborn poverty, AIDS, and the wider wealth gap. I will remind them that at the time of those words we were dealing Rwanda, DRC, Angola, Madagascar, Eretria, Burundi. Africans dying in their millions from the hand of own. We still have spots of bother, but we are now more focused on dealing with other problems rather than being terrified of a neighbour’s sharpened panga.
We now have more prominence on the global table. And the world is more attentive to Africans than ever before. Some in higher peckings of the world order have a problem with this and I believe they should. Chief-dom, runs in our blood. We are the descendents of the scientist and engineers who ruled Timbuktu and architects who built the pyramids. So science and technology is not foreign to our bloodline.
We dominate popular sport, we dominate popular culture through Hip Hop. In basic terms we are the star perfomers on the gallery of popular culture. We now seek to run the gallery as well. Of course, the stage masters will find that threatening.
When these words were being said, I remember an emmensely proud Madiba on that camera shot. The two might not see the same shade on one or two issue but TM has referred to Madiba as ‘a monument to the triumph of human spirit’. A definition enough to leave an old man wailing a tear.
Then TM takes the great african kings, the freedom fight, the black consciouse leader, the oppressor and all their people and defines Africans in this one sentence –
‘Being part of all these people, and in knowledge that no one dares contests this assertion, I shall claim that I am an African. ‘
Z,
That story was on TV and the British ambassader to the UN put what I saying forward. If you insist I will do more digging for you.
In light of the last sentence in my previous post, do you still need clarity on ‘white’ Africans?
Khosi
Ok thanks, I will maybe do some more online searching, no need for digging. In any case if it happened that way and intentions weren’t benign, it wouldn’t be unbelievable.
I don’t think I need more clarity on your perspective as you seem to have allowed whites into your definition of African. I of course would always like to hear more people’s perspective on this.
I do believe it is important for Africans to be proud of being Africans, but also to move beyond pride to humility. To the place where you feel no need to dominate, but have enough confidence in yourself to not be swayed by others’ opinions nor to feel the need to defend yourself. Then one can serve and love those around you with all your might, with the clearest of focus on what really matters.
Nice speech. Only if his words were transferred into action.
Pierre,
Is possible if you could kindly write your views about whats happening in Alexander, on the aparent xenophobic attacks.
Pierre,
Is it possible if you could kindly write your views about whats happening in Alexander, on the aparent xenophobic attacks.
Mqo,
You are right. For the sake of our conscience, we need someone to blame. Our souls cannot take the shame, we need to make things easier on ourselves as soon as possible.
Pierre, go on and write as we all know who the bearer of all our sins is.
Z, on the question of white Africans being referred to as Europeans. Of course you are right, especially Afrikaners have nothing really in common with Europeans, and they are by definition not Europeans if they have been born and bred here in SA, with their ancestors (3 generations or more) living here. Even their language, Afrikaans, although having its major roots in Europe (Dutch, German, and, to a lesser extent, English-Latin), is also an indigenous language that developed on the African continent – and it borrowed many San/Khoisan, Arab, Malay (from the slaves) and other indigenous words from African languages. It is therefore not, like English, a foreign language at all. However, I agree with many others on previous posts about the official languages, that one should try and learn to speak more than one or two of the official languages, besides English and Afrikaans.
Mouse
It’s so easy to learn extra languages when you are young. I so wish I had had more opportunity to learn African languages. I had Sepedi in std 6 and 7, but with a teacher who doesn’t even fluently speak it herself, it hardly seemed worthwhile (Matrics used to learn essays by heart, ).
Now I am in Cape Town, and have a much more free time I have decided at last to make a concerted effort and am busy learning isiXhosa.
Ndifuna ukufunda isiXhosa.
(I like learning Xhosa.)
Z, judging from your response it appears that you understand my point raised under the official language blog on the previous page (namely, that foreign languages are only easily learnt at a very tender age). The diversity of languages in SA today are such that, at least as far as the justice system is concerned, interpreters are indispensible human resources through which all official languages (and cultures) can be treated on the same footing. As they say in the US: “I rest my case.” Nevertheless, enjoy your language studies. I have also, at a very advanced age, begun studying Mandarin Chinese, and I find it extremely difficult to acquire. As far as the current debate is concerned, it appears that you and I are both Africans; and, we should proudly advance in proclaiming our rights and the future of this country.
Many apologies. This is very embarrassing, but I made a mistake in my Xhosa passage. At first wanting to say that I’m learning and then that I like learning Xhosa.
Ndifuna ukufunda isiXhosa.
I want to learn Xhosa.
Ndithanda ukufunda isiXhosa.
I like learning Xhosa.
Z, as you say, language is a difficult thing to learn at an advanced age (anything above 20). There is however no need to be ashamed at your translation above, as it quite often happens that someone wants (’funa’) to do something because he likes (’thanda’) it very much. An enthusiastic ‘Ndifuna’ in your sentence may therefore also sound like, “I like learning Xhosa so much that I want to learn it.”
Hehe, thanks for the encouragement!