Constitutional Hill

Vavi: How many people truly judge others objectively?

It is very difficult – some would say impossible – entirely to escape your own skin, your sex and gender, your political commitments, your social background, your class, your moral beliefs or your economic interests. No person floats above the world and makes decisions about his or her place in the world free from these influences. When a scandal breaks about a public figure (as it did this weekend around Zwelinzima Vavi), the manner in which people respond to the scandal – in the fog of accusations and counter-accusations – often serve as a Rorschach test of who they are and what they believe.

As I read the claims and counter claims of Zwelinzima Vavi and the woman who accused him of raping her, a sombre, debilitating sadness came over me. My instinctive first response went something like this: rape, for god’s sake; surely not Zwelinzima Vavi; surely not him; surely it must be a set-up?

I scanned his statement, the comments on Twitter, as well as newspaper reports looking for information that would justify this view. After all, Vavi has been fearless in his criticism of the increasingly widespread phenomenon of corruption within the tripartite alliance. He stood up against Aids denialism. He presents himself as a champion of the poor and the marginalised. He speaks out against the abuse of power by the wealthy and politically connected. For these and other reasons, I felt myself committed to his innocence – both on the rape charges and on the charges of abuse of power and sexual harassment.

It was only after an hour or two that I came to my senses. Why was I trying to find excuses to reject the veracity of the allegations of rape (and sexual harassment) against Vavi – and that without having much information to go on? Why was I trying to avert my eyes from the fact that – even on his own version of events – he seemed to have abused his position of power (as union leader and as a powerful man) to exploit a woman – all for sexual gratification?

But then I read allegations that the woman tried to extort R2 million from Vavi and that she decided on Monday not to pursue the sexual harassment charges against Vavi. Surely this on its own says nothing about whether Vavi had raped or abused his power to sexually harass the woman. But in the context of the bitter political fight between various political factions inside Cosatu, I was utterly confused.

I am well aware that allegations of rape made by a woman against a powerful man are all too often wrongly dismissed out of hand by other men or by individuals who share the same race, political views or factional interests as the man being accused of rape. The deeply entrenched narrative (promoted by many powerful men), that woman often falsely accuse men of rape to get back at them or to gain some emotional or financial benefit, often contribute to the phenomenon of victim blaming.

Yet my first impulse when I heard that Vavi was accused of rape and that he was claiming that this was done to extort money from him, was to believe him and dismiss the claims of the complainant out of hand.

As I write this, I have no idea where the truth lies. I do know that (even on his own account) Vavi acted disgracefully by abusing his power as an employer in order to obtain sexual favours from a woman he had employed at his office. I do not know whether the woman was enticed into extorting money from him by Vavi’s wife (as the woman claims). Neither do I know what exactly happened between Vavi and the woman and whether the admitted sexual contact was consensual or whether it constituted rape.

One way to deal with this uncertainty is to rely on formalistic legal processes and to claim that Vavi is innocent until proven guilty and that he must therefore be supported until such time as he is found guilty in a court of law of either sexual harassment or rape. Another way is to assume that, given the power relations in society and the deeply sexist manner in which claims by woman about abuse against them are often dealt with, Vavi is guilty of everything he is accused of.

But the fact of the matter is that – at this moment at least – it is impossible to know with absolute certainty where the truth lies – at least about the claims of harassment and rape. You can judge Vavi, not on fake moral grounds for having extra-marital sex, but (at the very least) because he seemed to have appointed a woman without following the prescribed procedure and then used his influence and power to pursue a sexual relationship with her. But how do you judge the contested accusations and counter accusations of Vavi and his accuser?

Which brings me to the heart of the matter.

I am amazed at how convinced and assured some commentators are about what exactly happened or didn’t happen between Vavi and the woman who accused him of harassment and rape. Some people seem to have taken Vavi’s side, either because they always take the side of a man accused of sexual abuse, or because they support Vavi because of his political commitments and views.

Others assume that he is guilty of everything that he has been accused of, either because he is a powerful man and they always (wrongly) assume that accusations of rape or sexual harassment are true, or because they oppose him because of their own political, social, racial or other beliefs or commitments.

We all experience the push and pull of our own beliefs and our own multi-faceted identities. Who we are – our race, sex, language, class, political beliefs or sexual orientation, for example – and how we experience the world, often guide our first responses to public events.

Whether we believe the allegations of racism levelled by yet another black woman abused at Virgin Active by a white man; whether we believe the allegations of sexism against a man accused of harassing a woman at work; whether we think Oscar Pistorius is a villain or a hero; whether we believe a cabinet Minister is involved in corruption as alleged by the Mail & Guardian, are at least partly mediated through our own experiences and through our perceptions of the world shaped by who we are.

That is why white Afrikaners are more likely to come to the defence of Oscar Pistorius who killed his own girlfriend and – we just don’t know yet – might or might not be convicted of either murder or culpable homicide for doing so. That is also why some people who staunchly support him are convinced that President Jacob Zuma was framed and that it is utterly irrelevant that Schabir Shaik was convicted of bribing Zuma.

It is impossible to avoid making judgments. Personally, I would not like to invite Oscar Pistorius into my home – regardless of whether he is ever convicted of murder or culpable homicide. I would not feel comfortable having a drink with somebody who has the ability to shoot and kill somebody hiding behind a toilet door. But I know some other people who still love Oscar and will do so regardless of what the court decides because they believe that they, too, would have shot and killed any person hiding in their bathroom, or because they are entranced by the fact that Oscar is white or famous or rich or has overcome adversity to shine on the world stage.

But when we do make judgments, it is perhaps helpful not to be too certain or too categorical about our own beliefs and to keep on asking ourselves why we support one person while condemning another. Are we blindly giving support to a charlatan or criminal because of his or her race, sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or political affiliation? Or are we condemning somebody because he or she belongs to the so-called “wrong” race, sex, ethnic group, religion, or political party?

How many people can truly tell?

  • MarsWarrior

    It is true that we as humans are not objective beings. We aren’t immortal, and thus fallible in all aspects. If you survive a lion attack, you won’t ever trust a lion because death doesn’t give second chances. If you survive a brutal racially motivated farm attack……..I’m sure you get my drift.
    Bill Clinton should be more than sufficient proof that lust is the aspect where homo sapiens man has met his match most often. Be it being exploited by a woman, or himself exploiting other women. Most people forgot that what precipitated the the whole Monica Lewinski affair, was the sexual harassment claim brought against him by Paula Jones.

  • Ozoneblue

    Jeez. I think it is going to snow in Durban today.

    First time ever I read anything even attempting objectivity regarding human behaviour from PdV. No one-sided White bashing either – I mean WTF?

  • Mike Atkins

    Why is it “fake” morality to say that adultery is wrong?

    Sure, many who might judge on that basis are insincere or hypocritical, but why is such a morality inherently unsound or otherwise invalid?

  • Mike

    How different is this to your support for the UCT Affirmative Action programme where minorities are discriminated against.
    The current black middle class enjoy a standard of living that the elite in the apartheid years of the 1960′s and 1970′s never enjoyed, and that is quite easy to verify by the type of cars on sale then and now as there is a huge difference between the Merc 200 and the current Merc E and BMW 5 and 7 series and lets not forget the Audi 80 of the 1970′S and the current A4 A5 A6 and Q5/7′S.
    Compare former white middle class suburb’s under apartheid and the suburbs where the black middle class now reside.
    All this is a contradiction to your closing paragraph.

  • Maggs Naidu – Prof Motala knows what he is talking about! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    I’ll repeat what I said elsewhere.

    While his contribution to deepening and strengthening democracy is enormous, Vavi felt that he was beyond the reach of morality and integrity. It’s worsened by his excuse that “We all do things in dark corners”. This wasn’t a spur of the moment error of judgement, but carefully planned and orchestrated over a period during which he had the opportunity to reflect. He did so because he could.

    Until this matter is thoroughly tested, no one but the two involved knows what really happened. But it’s unfortunate that many are asking why it took the victim so long to raise the issue, why she tried to extort R2 million. There is no single right way for victims of sexual abuse (I’m not suggesting the young lady in question is a “victim”) in particular to deal with it. Victims have been know to successfully raise abuse decades later, including e.g. the young men who were abused by priests in the Catholic Church.

    While Vavi championed anti-corruption, it’s unfortunate that he, by his own admission, circumvented COSATU’s own employment practices. It’s difficult now to escape the conclusion that he did so mainly for unsavoury reasons.

    The impact that people in power (employers over employees, teachers over learners, policepersons or judges over accused etc) is enormous – such relationships should not happen and should not be allowed to happen. Even consent where such power differences exist is questionable.

    Whether it was consensual or not, it is most unfortunate for the rest of us that Vavi who could have eventually have parted the political scene as an icon, has succumbed to the trappings of power in the most carnal of ways.

    In the final analysis he has destroyed his own capacity to challenge others who lack integrity.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike Atkins
    July 30, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Mike

    “Why is it “fake” morality to say that adultery is wrong?”

    Why is adultery wrong?

  • http://journoactivist.com Michelle Solomon

    Your column touched on something that has been worrying me immensely, but you miss talking about one critical problem that has come up: the public discourse has overwhelmingly been against this woman. It’s simply not true that the zealots on her side and the zealots on Vavi’s side are equally matched. This woman, whether she was telling the truth or not, has been terrorised and victimised at a massive scale that cannot be honestly compared to the backlash Vavi received for the rape accusation. Also, the specific way her victimisation has taken form is damaging to all survivors of sexual violence, and again the truth of her claims (which we will now never know) is actually irrelevant. There is an inherent sexism in the way you originally responded and how others uncritically continue to respond – innocent until proven guilty was upheld for Vavi, while the extortion claim was held as fact. None of that for a rape accuser, it seems.

    I think it is extremely important and valuable that you have the ability to critically reflect on why your initial response was to believe Vavi out of hand, but most South Africans appear to wholly lack this ability. Hence why I resorted to this: http://journoactivist.com/category/activism/why-i-didnt-report/

  • Dmwangi

    @PdV

    “You can judge Vavi, not on fake moral grounds for having extra-marital sex but (at the very least) because he seemed to have appointed a woman without following . the prescribed procedure and then used his influence and power to pursue a sexual relationship with her.”

    Adultery is a “fake” moral? And assuming the relationship was consensual, aren’t we dealing with “consenting adults” and anything goes, yes ??

    “It is impossible to avoid making judgments. Personally, I would not like to invite Oscar Pistorius into my home – regardless of whether he is ever convicted of murder or culpable homicide.”

    Correct. But isn’t the point that it is possible to make judgments about the rightness or wrongness of actions without necessarily judging the righteousness of persons (i.e. hate the sin, love the sinner)? And I imagine that to welcome a murderer or rapist or other despised person into one’s home requires a particular kind of commitment: a radical type of unconditionality toward others that is quite rare.

  • Pierre De Vos

    Michelle Solomon, yes, the issue I did not have space to address properly is that – apart from one’s own personal beliefs, experiences and commitments, these judgments occur within a specific context in which the power of male hegemony etc exercises a powerful pull in one direction.

  • Ozoneblue

    Pierre De Vos
    July 30, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Do be careful that you do not commit a fashion mistake and piss off the PC White liberal nazis that control the international and national discourse on IDENTITY POLITICS. They may just banish you to a life sentence in the racist, Calvinist, patriarchal, white male [homogeneous] dominated DA governed Potchefstroom forever!

  • Ozoneblue

    Michelle Solomon
    July 30, 2013 at 8:50 am

    “Your column touched on something that has been worrying me immensely, but you miss talking about one critical problem that has come up: the public discourse has overwhelmingly been against this woman. It’s simply not true that the zealots on her side and the zealots on Vavi’s side are equally matched. This woman, whether she was telling the truth or not,”

    It doesn’t really matter if she is telling the truth, really?

  • John Roberts

    Now here’s a guy who understands something de Vos doesn’t. Abeyance.

    King Dalindyebo’s decision to have ditched the ANC for the DA has caused nothing short of an apoplectic commentariat uproar over the last few weeks. It really shouldn’t have.
    Firstly, many have accused the DA of being disingenuous and/or hypocritical in accepting Dalindyebo. Commisars have quoted, with delight, the following passage from the DA’s Constitution:
    “A member of the DA automatically ceases to be a member if he or she is “found guilty of any offence listed in Schedule 1, 2, 5, 6 or 7 of the Criminal Procedure Act.”
    The coup de grace is that Dalindyebo has been found guilty by a High Court of culpable homicide. Recent reports indicate that, in the judge’s own words, Dalindyebo escaped a murder conviction by a hair’s breadth.
    Critics have latched onto this and accused the DA of the worst kind of political expediency and hypocrisy. So the argument goes, the DA’s acceptance of Dalindyebo shows that there is no limit to how low the DA will sink in order to attract black voters.
    But many of the DA’s critics fail to understand, or even acknowledge, that the King is awaiting an appeal against both his conviction and sentence. Generally, the effect of an appeal is to hold a conviction and sentence in abeyance until it is finalised (hence, despite the High Court ruling, he is wondering around a free man).
    The broad principle pertaining to appeals is that leave to appeal is only granted where a judge believes that the appeal court may arrive at a different conclusion. Constructed differently, one may argue that leave to appeal is only granted where there is a reasonable prospect of success (for the appeal).
    In damning the DA’s actions, this crucial detail has been overlooked. The fact that Dalindyebo was granted leave to appeal may mean that he is innocent.
    If he is innocent, then the true hypocrisy would be that the DA, which has an unwavering commitment to the rule of law, would have prejudged him and expelled him – on grounds that did not stand up in a court of law. Let’s not even get into what those same critics will say if an innocent black man were excluded from a supposedly white party despite being innocent.
    The best legal position is for the DA to accept Dalindyebo’s membership and take disciplinary action against him pending the finalisation of the appeal. If he is eventually found and the party does nothing, then all the accusations of hypocrisy and expediency deserve to stick.
    Some argue that the DA should have been more strategically nuanced. It should have either exercised its discretion to refuse his membership pending the outcome of the appeal or kept this whole saga as quiet as possible. Both situations smack of hypocrisy and expediency – gimmicks for the DA to save face in the case of possible guilt.
    Secondly – and this, to some extent, is the DA’s own doing – Dalindyebo’s decision has been portrayed as a “breakthrough moment”. Objectively, I cannot agree.
    Dalindyebo is the King of a relatively small clan. His influence, especially in traditional networks amongst black voters that the DA wants to attract, is thus limited.
    Further, notwithstanding Dalindyebo’s formal leadership of the abaThembu, it is questionable whether his subjects share his new political outlook. Considering that the abaThembu count Nelson Mandela as one of their famous sons, loyalty to the ANC runs deeper than Dalindyebo and his decisions.
    So what is the value of Dalindyebo joining the DA? Short answer: I don’t see much.
    Revelations that Dalindyebo has been having long standing battles with the government over his treatment in comparison to the Zulu King, for example, make one more inclined to believe that his decision is self-interested. Maybe he believes that in joining the DA, he can embarrass the ANC enough to treat him better. I doubt whether, judging by how the ANC has treated malcontents who tried similar, Dalindyebo will get his way.
    Further, the DA’s ideological standpoint relative to traditional, indigenous South Africa, illustrated by its opposition to the Traditional Courts Bill, seems to be at odds with Dalindyebo. Liberalism may as well be in demotic if Dalindyebo’s trial record is anything to go by.
    More so, the DA’s target market, young (black) born-frees, are a constituency that probably doesn’t care about Dalindyebo or parochial traditional leadership structures. Why the DA would risk isolating their support for the sake of this one man is not clear
    But what the DA can take solace from, and this is something it is trenchant about, is that Dalindyebo’s decision does indicate it has some broader appeal beyond well-heeled, white suburbia it is often, ignorantly, said to represent. The realignment project is a difficult one. The Dalindyebo incident is one but many of the difficult choices that the DA will have to make it trying to expand its base so that it can grow substantially in 2014 and win in 2019. Moral hazards and political poisoned chalices aside, Dalindyebo and his decision, if anything, shows that the DA is now able to access places it would have never been able to do so under Helen Zille’s predecessors. Whatever the chatterati may think about how the DA does so, extended political competition is not only good for the DA, but for the ANC and South Africa too.
    Perhaps what commentators should have done is taken a deep breath before tripping over each other to comment on this, and peddle their own beliefs and prejudices as public opinion. (Take note Pierre) Some perspective and some balance would have, as always, been nice.

    Kameel Premhid

  • John Roberts

    @Pierre

    “..It was only after an hour or two that I came to my senses” Um.. I don’t think so mate. That hasn’t happened since birth.

    “..As I write this, I have no idea where the truth lies” Yes you should put that as the first sentence of all your articles. It’s always true.

    “..Personally, I would not like to invite Oscar Pistorius into my home ” Yes he’s into chicks mate so it would be a waste of time. Unless of course you’re an acrotomophiliac?

  • Maggs Naidu

    John Roberts

    July 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Hey JR,

    “mate” sounds very Ozzie.

    You’re as Australian as Zuma is Professor viz. Fong Kong!

  • Gwebecimele

    At what point do women take responsibility for engaging in exchange of favours for positions and gifts? What about all of us (Men, Women & Children) start scrutinizing freebies from powerful/rich people.

    Our society is full of many men and women who have benefited in various forms favouritism and some are yet to complain.

    All relationships or agreements are about give and take.

    As for Vavi, he is finished.
    As for the young lady, the truth of that day will always be between two of them. I feel very sorry for her, no amount of court actions or hearings will restore what she had before. She needs to pursue this, in HER on way away from the noise.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    If you decide to leave us Brett, beware of this trap.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/07/30/no-country-for-fat-men

  • Gwebecimele

    No amount of money will change what happened to this woman.

    http://www.thenewage.co.za/101608-1016-53-Three_arrested_for_gang_rape

  • Gwebecimele

    Tired of shopping in Paris, London, New York.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=394789&sn=Detail&pid=71616

    Brought to you by the South African Capitalist Party.

    Maggs & Dworky will you partner me in a business initiative involving racing pigeons. May be Matilda can have a role too.

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 30, 2013 at 14:37 pm

    “The 2000-strong Mhlanganisweni community was removed during the apartheid era. ”

    No problem then. But this scenario was catered for under Restitution of Land Rights Act, 1994.

    http://www.ruraldevelopment.gov.za/services/commission-on-restitution-of-land-rights#.Ufe68tc88VY

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 30, 2013 at 14:44 pm

    Excpet for chasing fat white men into the sea, this should also make you happy gwebs. More “nonracial” South Africa.

    Not ‘black’ enough for prison

    “Desiree Merkeur, who had applied for a position as a secretary at DCS’s Breede Valley region in 2011, testified she was “strongly recommended” after being interviewed. She, along with eight other coloured people, mostly employed by DCS, and a white male, are challenging the application of the department’s employment equity policy, which uses national instead of provincial racial figures to determine the number of employees from the four designated groups. The FW de Klerk Foundation and Solidarity union have assisted the applicants in their court case. The Police, Prisons and Civil Rights Union has indicated it supports the department’s policy. DCS counsel Murumo Moerane SC said the department’s application of its national employment equity policy was to correct “imbalances”. He said it did not discriminate against coloured people.”

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/07/30/not-black-enough-for-prison

    And always remember, it is not discrimination to refuse someone a job or a promotion because of the colour of his/her skin.

  • Dmwangi

    “Pierre De Vos
    July 30, 2013 at 9:52 am
    Michelle Solomon, yes, the issue I did not have space to address properly is that – apart from one’s own personal beliefs, experiences and commitments, these judgments occur within a specific context in which the power of male hegemony etc exercises a powerful pull in one direction.”

    This is incoherent babble. If “one’s own personal beliefs, experiences and commitments” are that a powerful male conspiracy exists, the judgment would not be “apart” from the “powerful pull” of “male hegemony.” The “specific context” the judgment occurs in is certainly part of a person’s experiences and belief-forming background.

    What’s interesting, then, is the fact that you admit your own “personal beliefs, experiences and commitments” are “apart,” as in incongruent, as in don’t align with the recognition of a “powerful male hegemony.” Which begs the question: if your beliefs, experiences, commitments are not of a “powerful male hegemony,” why suppose one exists?

  • Zoo Keeper

    Everyone’s view is naturally influenced by their internal preconceptions.

    In Oscar’s case, many people who held him as their hero had simply foisted their own idea of a perfect human upon his image – without ever having even met the man.

    These fans are then naturally inclined to believe that they were right in the first place and Oscar couldn’t possibly have done what he is accused of.

    You did exactly the same thing. You’ve foisted values and standards of conduct upon a public figure so that when his conduct jars with what you want to believe about him, you naturally think it must be wrong.

    We don’t want to be wrong when our preconceived notions of who a certain person should be is fundamentally challenged, so we default to follow the direction which says we were right.

  • Ozoneblue

    Zoo Keeper
    July 30, 2013 at 16:23 pm

    “Everyone’s view is naturally influenced by their internal preconceptions.”

    And my perception is that Julius Malema and Andile Mngxitama are a bunch of fascist assholes – do you agree.

    “People of Zimbabwe, vote Zanu-PF! – EFF
    Mbuyiseni Quintin Ndlozi
    30 July 2013

    Fighters note with joy the indigenisation programme now extending decolonisation through out the economy

    ECONOMIC FREEDOM FIGHTERS (EFF) CALL ON THE PEOPLE OF ZIMBAWE TO VOTE FOR ZANU-PF

    30 July 2013 -

    Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) call upon the revolutionary people of Zimbabwe to defend the Zimbabwean revolution by voting for Zanu-PF and retaining comrade Robert Mugabe as the president of that liberated nation. EFF make the call on behalf of millions of landless, jobless, hopeless, unemployed, poverty stricken and dejected people of South Africa who experience these crises amidst so much mineral and natural resources wealth in South Africa.

    The gains of the Zimbabwean revolution must be defended. These gains find concrete expression in the historic and unparallel land redistribution programme that took land from 4000 white settler farmers who owed 80% of Zimbabwean land, and redistributed it to more than 274 000 Zimbabweans! It’s your victory defend it by any means necessary!

    This brave and courageous move by the people of Zimbabwe under the leadership of President Robert Mugabe and guidance of Zanu-PF has come at a cost. EFF salutes the resilience and vigilance of the people of Zimbabwe, who endured and survived a brutal and illegal economic sanctions and sabotage by the West as punishment for returning the stolen land to its rightful owners. The people of Zimbabwe have been punished as s strategy to separate the people from the revolutionary leadership of Zanu-PF and leadership of President Mugabe. We say don’t allow the schemes of the enemies of Africa to succeed. Vote for liberation! Vote Zanu-PF!

    We implore the people Zimbabwe to realise that the Zimbabwean revolution is still under massive attacks and new plots are being hatched and new schemes cooked to reverse the gains you have made. The demonisation of Zanu-PF and comrade Mugabe is part of the plot to divide the nation for re-colonisation.

    We say you have already suffered enough for your liberation now defend and deepen it. Only Zanu-PF has demonstrated beyond doubt that is has the foresight, courage and never-die spirit as warriors for African dignity. We warn the people of Zimbabwe not to hand over your country to the stooges of the West in the form of Morgan Tsvangarai and his MDC-T.

    Zimbabwe has its land back. We in South Africa draw courage and inspiration from your achievements. In South Africa we remain landless, poor and under attack from racism every single day of our existence. Our freedom is empty words. We note with joy the indigenisation programme which now extends decolonisation of the economy through ownership of the economy by Zimbabweans.

    This programme is a threat to colonial and western interests who have benefited from Zimbabwean wealth whilst the people suffer. We call on the Zimbabwean people to defend, deepen and fast track the indigenisation programme to complete this second and most difficult phase of your glorious revolution. You know who your true leaders are! You know which party can and has stood against Western arrogance and has emerged victorious.

    You must remember the movement that was ready to bleed to realise your freedom!

    EFF wish Zanu-PF and comrade Robert Mugabe a well deserved victory in the coming election. The completion of the long and difficult struggle to economic freedom in Zimbabwe is dependent on the victory of Zanu-PF in the coming election. We plead with the people of Zimbabwe to be have strength and courage, your long suffering caused by the enemies of liberation is almost over, for we know tomorrow will be better than today. Vote wise; vote Zanu-PF and President Robert Mugabe!

    Statement issued by the Economic Freedom Fighters, July 30 201″

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=394935&sn=Detail&pid=71616

  • Zoo Keeper

    OB

    Andile Mngxitama is a black version of Barend Strydom.

    Malema and the EFF are exactly like Hitler and the Nazis in the 1920s combined with Leninism.

    A recipe which is based on outright race-hatred for those who are not black (read all minorities), hatred for those blacks who are educated and thus “coconuts” and pure communism – i.e. the robbery of the population of everything they own.

    If the EFF took power we would see progroms against minority groups and mass oppression of the majority once the useful idiots have killed all the minorities.

    The EFF will revel in the poverty of the masses as they claim they have victory on their behalf. Just like Mugabe does. This whilst the majority begin to starve to death – and all the while the elite of the EFF will amass personal fortunes off the backs of slave labour just like the communist elites always do.

    If Malema does take power, there will be blood. His is a political strategy demanding violence, not democracy and dialogue.

    South Africans cannot run anywhere, we’re trapped by the sea, deserts and poverty-stricken neighbours. We have nowhere to go and we may well end up fighting for our freedom all over again.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    July 30, 2013 at 17:24 pm

    ZooKy,

    “Andile Mngxitama is a black version of Barend Strydom.”

    Barend Strydom went around killing Black people.

    Who did Andile kill?

  • John Roberts

    “..Michelle Solomon, yes, the issue I did not have space to address properly ”

    Didn’t have space? Where? What horse shit! This is your blog, Pierre. Use as much space as you need, mate! It’s really that you don’t know what the fuck you’re babbling about, isn’t it?

    Unless of course you meant not enough space in your head. That I can agree with.

    As for Ms. Solomons. This is a male blog. Keep away.

  • Dmwangi

    Zoo:

    Forget Malema and Andile. The one rich whites are actually worried about is Gordhan. Know of any studies investigating amount of capital SA citizens have in offshore accounts?

    What happens when Treasury signs on to new global reporting requirements currently under discussion by G20 — which will use its economic clout to ensure all save N. Korea adopts — and there becomes nowhere to hide?

    I predict there will be much more crying about that than some petty demagogue spouting off.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    John Roberts
    July 30, 2013 at 19:10 pm

    Hey JR,

    “As for Ms. Solomons. This is a male blog. Keep away.”

    Eish man – me and Dmwangi sent Lisbeth off to the kitchen where all girls belong.

    She hasn’t returned.

    The downside is that DM has since not written any of his interesting stuff on economics. :(

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi
    July 30, 2013 at 19:11 pm

    Hey DM,

    “Know of any studies investigating amount of capital SA citizens have in offshore accounts?”

    There’s one – Mark Shuttleworth has the equivalent of R4.2 billion (minus R250 million) in the Isle of Man.

    And Christo Wiese has a lot of British £s in a suitcase.

    Hope that helps!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Zooks

    “We have nowhere to go and we may well end up fighting for our freedom all over again.”

    Zooks, you are right. Please report on exactly what you did to fight for our freedom last time around. That will guide us as to what we must do to prepare for the coming struggle. Also, please specify what weapons and, and in what quantity, you recommend we must stockpile.

    Thanks.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Dmwangi et Maggs

    I have invested part of the not-inconsiderable return on my global macrofinance portfolio in a pied a terre in Ljubljana.

    Thanks.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    I wonder if these young South Africans know that the authors of highly unpopular laws sometimes get to play final arbiter over the laws they commissioned from the Bench of the Supreme Court of Appeal?

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/editorials/2013/07/31/editorial-the-price-of-abuse-of-the-legal-system

    RESEARCH by the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) showing that only half of South Africans believe the courts are fair and impartial is perhaps not that alarming in itself, as this sort of level of distrust in the justice system is common elsewhere in the world.

    What is worrying is that those most disenchanted with the courts are young and socially disadvantaged — in other words, the bulk of South Africa’s population. Their negativity, the HSRC warns, could have a “damaging effect on the legitimacy of the courts” and the lack of confidence in them leaves little room for complacency.

    Unlike other branches of the government, the courts do not have a police force or money to enforce their rulings. The system relies on the credibility of the institution encouraging the public to comply with and respect the rule of the law and court decisions because they believe in their fairness and impartiality. It requires the state to respect its judgments and to act on its behalf, such as sending those who have been convicted after a fair trial to jail, or forcing people on the losing side of civil claims to pay up.

    If a critical mass of people do not believe the courts are impartial, the whole system wobbles. To protect this independence and legitimacy, it is critical that the state be seen to support and uphold court decisions and respect judicial independence, even when decisions go against it. Yet, in many cases, it is our politicians themselves who lead the assault on this independence, labelling the courts as opposition forces or impediments to transformation, or ignoring judgments.

    Government and political parties have been warned on a number of occasions that their undermining of the country’s legal system will have negative consequences for our democracy. The lack of belief in our courts emerging among young people in particular is partly a consequence of this behaviour.

    A trusted and independent judiciary is an essential pillar of liberty. Without it, the state loses a tool to resolve disputes and administer the law impartially between individuals and between citizens and public authorities. Without a fair and trusted legal system, citizens risk their rights and freedoms.

    That is not to say that the courts are above criticism. But when they are brought under scrutiny, this should be done with great caution.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Free Bradley Manning!

    http://youtu.be/DolTa5yVCkc

  • Michael Osborne

    We seem to be awash in a sea of relativism. Now, even the Holy Father says he cannot judge gays. Fortunately, help is at hand:

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/07/scalia-offers-to-help-pope-judge-gays.html

  • Zoo Keeper

    Dmwangi

    You are right.

    The governments of the world are doing their level best to force every cent out of civilians across the world.

    They have over-spent and over-stretched themselves and now need people to pay for their gross negligence and mistakes.

    The UK has been apoplectic about Apple and Starbucks etc avoiding paying them tax. But Apple and Starbucks did nothing wrong but the big social spenders cannot stand it when someone wants to keep their money to themselves instead of handing it over to be misspent.

    Thing is, business goes where it makes the most money. A country outside of the G20 that needs lots of investment may make itself a tax-haven in return for investment, thus encouraging business to put its money there.

    All the G20 are going to do is push money into non-G20 territories. If they are too aggressive, in the long term it may see them decline as economies.

    Just a thought but I’m sure an actual economist may have a different view!

  • Zoo Keeper

    Dmwangi

    However, if Andile and Malema do win power, there will be no tax base left as they will destroy it – just like Lenin did to Russia.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    July 31, 2013 at 9:32 am

    ZooKy,

    “Just a thought but I’m sure an actual economist may have a different view!”

    You mean Lisbeth, don’t you?

    DM WDYS?

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    July 31, 2013 at 9:34 am

    ZooKy,

    You still haven’t told us who Andile has butchered like Barend Strydom did!

  • Ozoneblue

    Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    July 31, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Barend Strijdom was a rightwing crazy nobody with no support. Andile Mngxitama is a leader in a rather influential political party now. He has the power to spread his hatred on public platforms. He is a racist asshole that is just begging to get fucked.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “Free Bradley Manning!”

    Brett is right. Is it true that the only reason Manning will be spared the death penalty was because the one document he refused to leak to Wikileaks was a document proving that Mr Obama was born in EAST TIMOR?

    Thanks.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Ozoneguy

    “Andile Mngxitama is a leader in a rather influential political party now”

    While I object to their vicious criticism of Mr Zuma, I say the EFF is the only party that can satisfy our peoples’ aspiration to ECONOMIC FREEDOM in their lifetime!

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    July 31, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Dworky,

    “I say the EFF is the only party that can satisfy our peoples’ aspiration to ECONOMIC FREEDOM in their lifetime!”

    Ms Khanyi Dhlomo thanks to the NEF got Economic Freedom in Zuma’s Lifetime!

    WDYSTT?

  • Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    July 31, 2013 at 10:16 am

    “While I object to their vicious criticism of Mr Zuma, I say the EFF is the only party that can satisfy our peoples’ aspiration to ECONOMIC FREEDOM in their lifetime!”

    hmmm. mfd, sorry to disagree but I believe you should wake up and smell the roses – Thabo Mabeki and 20 years of AA/BEE have already achieved that ECONOMIC FREEDOM!

    SA’s upper class ‘more African — and ever wealthier’

    “The upper class also dramatically increased its share of the national income, from 17% to 32%, showing a rising concentration of wealth at the top. The middle and lower classes “actually lost ground in terms of their combined income share, which decreased from 83% to 68%”, says the study. During the period under review, both the middle class and upper class underwent a dramatic change in racial composition, hence the story of the growth of the black middle class. The number of middle-class Africans more than doubled from 2.2-million to 5.4-million, while the number of whites shrunk by a third. Africans now make up most of the middle class. The number of Africans in the upper-class grew even more dramatically, from 19,000 to 257,000 in 15 years. The reasons for the declining number of whites in the middle class, said Mr Visagie, were the shrinking white population, high levels of emigration between 1993 and 2000, and the fact that a “small but notable” number of whites had moved up into the upper class.”

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2013/07/29/sas-upper-class-more-african–and-ever-wealthier

    5.4-million privileged blacks now. Almost twice as many as whites.

    As I said before – the ethnic cleansing began in 1994, and in 2013 only around 3 million privileged Whites and a couple of Indians left for Andile and Julius to drive into the sea and/or to kill.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ‘Of Good Report’, Sugar Daddies and Vavi

    What does ‘consent’ mean in a situation where one’s livelihood depends on the person asking, or not asking? Many women and many men will know how difficult it is to say ‘no’ to a boss in many other benign contexts. How come sex – with all its additional social baggage – is considered so easy to refuse from the person who signs off your pay cheques? Is this really ‘consent’?

    These are complicated questions, and in the case of Vavi and his employee, there appears to be little evidence for outsiders to judge on. But a country that recognises that even consensual teacher-child relationships are deeply problematic should consider applying that same awareness of power dynamics to a boss-employee affair.

    constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/vavi-how-many-people-truly-judge-others-objectively/#comment-99844

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Gwebecimele

    Maggs

    Zook must go buy some tinned stuff the world is coming to an end.

  • Gwebecimele

    Thanks Maggs for this link.

    “True, Eusebius McKaiser cautioned against the assumption that the junior partner must inevitably be the victim in this situation: a valid, and valuable point. “Sometimes older men and women, seemingly powerful, can be the pathetic disempowered partner in an affair,” McKaiser wrote. But the fact remains that it was Vavi who hired the woman, seemingly with disregard for protocol, and it surely must not have escaped her mind that one who hires so whimsically may also fire in the same manner. In the transcript of messages between Vavi and the woman, released by Vavi himself, it is notable that she refers to him as ‘GS’ (General Secretary). That does not suggest a relationship of equals.

    What does ‘consent’ mean in a situation where one’s livelihood depends on the person asking, or not asking? Many women and many men will know how difficult it is to say ‘no’ to a boss in many other benign contexts. How come sex – with all its additional social baggage – is considered so easy to refuse from the person who signs off your pay cheques? Is this really ‘consent’?

    These are complicated questions, and in the case of Vavi and his employee, there appears to be little evidence for outsiders to judge on” by Rebecca

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 11:28 am

    “What does ‘consent’ mean in a situation where one’s livelihood depends on the person asking, or not asking?”

    We all have to make difficult choices of conscience in that same unequal power situation on a daily basis. To you tell your boss who pays your salary you will not sign off on that dodgy contract, will not accept inferior work because the boss’s pals are the contractors, will not employ somebody you know cannot do the job because of demographic sensibilities and political connections, will not tell the JSC that you believe in individual merit and that you disagree with their dubious “interpretation of human rights” or our Constitution.

    Will not prostitute yourself, sacrifice your values and your commitment to professional code of conduct to hold on to a job. It happens to all of us, everyday boet.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 11:19 am

    LOL Gwebs – ZooKy makes up stuff more often than not.

    “Zook must go buy some tinned stuff the world is coming to an end.”

  • Ozoneblue

    Well said cde Manatshe.

    “We must say so. They destroyed the economy. In 1980 the Zimbabwean dollar was R1.50, today it has no value. “They have caused a massive destruction to the (Zimbabwean) economy and I have an issue with that. I will not voluntarily do what Zanu (PF) does (just) because they are my comrades, because I don’t want the South African economy to collapse in the same way. “We must do things that are sustainable, that can continue keeping the economy alive.”

    The calls made by the EFF, based on the Freedom Charter, were hugely distorted in their “articulation”. Land grabs without compensation, for instance, were a distortion of the Freedom Charter, Mr Mantashe said. The charter speaks about sharing land among those who work it. “If you want to create farmers, you are not going to succeed, farmers are not created, farmers are like entrepreneurs, you don’t create them, it’s something you are going to have passion and love for,” Mr Mantashe said. “Once you want to create them by force or by hook or by crook, you will see farming as a place for weekend braais.” Similarly, the call for nationalisation by the EFF was a distortion. The charter was explicit that minerals belonged to the people as a whole, but the Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Act already gave ownership of mineral wealth to the government on behalf of the country’s citizens.

    http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/politics/2013/07/30/malema-is-dancing-to-zanu-pf-s-tune

  • Ozoneblue

    cde Mantashe.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    OB and Mantashe are right.

    Zimbabwe must learn from our model of crime strategy, education and land distribution programme.

  • Gwebecimele

    “The question remains. Is this the final demise of Zwelinzima Vavi the once-powerful General-Secretary of the all-powerful, all-conquering Cosatu? Or is it the demise of Cosatu as Mantashe predicted?

    It may well be.

    When two bulls fight, it is the grass that suffers. Sounds like an old tired cliché to you? Could as well be but it fits snugly into the Cosatu affair. The grass is already suffering. Member unions are already losing membership in the North West’s platinum belt to Amcu. The NUM, probably the largest Cosatu affiliate is no longer the majority union over there. Remember what Mantashe said: “Workers will look for alternatives.”

    It’s going to get worse.

    When Vavi goes (and he will go very soon), that will spell doom. Some of his supporters will go with him. Cosatu may not necessarily fall apart from day one or in less than a year as Mantashe predicted, but the federation would go on a gradual downward spiral.

    What a pity!” by Sipho, Moneyweb

  • Gwebecimele

    “In the 2011 political thriller Ides of March, Ryan Gosling’s character loses it with the US presidential candidate, played by George Clooney. “You broke the first rule of politics,” he shouts at the man he is campaigning for. “You can bankrupt a nation, you can start unnecessary wars, but you don’t fuck the intern.” V. Pillay

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    “It’s going to get worse.”

    Correct. Go and read what happened in 1922. Listen to your bro Max du Preez:

    “I grew up in an Afrikaner nationalist environment. There was one sure way of boosting your credentials as a full-blooded Afrikaner: glorify Afrikaner nationalism while dismissing and belittling other groups. If you were “soft on blacks” you were not a good Afrikaner, you had no pride and backbone.”

    We spent decades fighting against our own, ultra-nationalist Afrikaner rightwingers. Listening to stories about how the British destroyed our farms, robbed us of our dignity and humiliated us in concentration camps – as a justification to commit all sorts of atrocities against others in return. Same victimhood psychology applies to human rights abuses in Zionist Israel.

    We have to speak up now because we have been there, done that and see this all happen before.

  • Gwebecimele

    Conspiracy or Joke of the Day.

    Mzansi Original!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.thenewage.co.za/103246-1014-53-RDP_handover_falls_flat

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    Max story is incomplete. The “Afrikaner Nationalist” delivered beyond imagination for its supporters and observers. The long lasting benefits of that movement will be with us for decades to come.

    You are a beneficiary of that decision.

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 13:46 pm

    “You are a beneficiary of that decision.”

    You too. Guess who hold shares in and are running Absa, Sasol, Yskor, Eskom, etc. etc. now. Guess who are being educated in Afrikaner created universities – all of them rated amongst the best in Africa. If you scorn everything us Afrikaners have created then please have the decency to tear it all down before you [attempt] to chase us into the sea. And good luck with that.

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    My only benefit from my skin colour is less than 0.2% of what I own. The day I get something decent you will be the first to know. On the other hand the opportunities that I missed might be more than ten times.

    You and may be Max are ungrateful beneficiaries

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 14:20 pm

    OB

    “My only benefit from my skin colour is less than 0.2% of what I own. The day I get something decent you will be the first to know. On the other hand the opportunities that I missed might be more than ten times.”

    So what the fuck else do you want from me? My car, my house, my furniture – all the stuff you [mistakenly] believe I got *only* cause I’m white. Have already given up my job for a Black dude and have trained a plethora of others in my profession.

    What else do you want from me?

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    Everything that you did not pay for.

    Read Samantha Vice.

  • Ozoneblue

    Gwebecimele
    July 31, 2013 at 14:52 pm

    “Everything that you did not pay for. Read Samantha Vice. ”

    LOL. My kids and my wife? In my racist White culture we don’t buy our women.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Gwebe

    “Read Samantha Vice”

    Gwebe is right. That is why I am inviting both Professor Vice and Gillian Schutte to the inaugural meeting of our new “think tank,” the GAUTENG INSTITUTE OF WHITISM AND WHITISH STUDIES. And we have a very special guest speaker: Prof Makgoba!

    Thanks

  • Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    July 31, 2013 at 15:39 pm

    Hey mfd. What do you think Prof Makgoba and Samantha Vice will have to say about this one?

    “The delays at Medupi‚ along with those at its Kusile and Ingula power stations‚ are partly the reason why economic growth for 2013 is expected to slow to 2 percent from 2.5 percent in 2012 and 3.1 percent in 2011 as Eskom buys back power from ferrochrome producers and cuts power to large users such the mines and aluminium smelters. The lack of spare electricity capacity and the more than doubling in the price of electricity is also one of the reasons why AccelorMittal SA (ACL) shut down its electric arc furnaces in October 2012. In 2012 South African steel production fell by 5.7 percent to only 7.12-million tons‚ its lowest level since at least 1980. This contrasts with a 1.2 percent rise in global steel production in 2012 after an 8.1 percent jump in 2011. The reason there was no power margin on Thursday was that planned maintenance jumped to 4‚600MW on July 25 compared with 3‚502MW on July 22 and 2‚917MW on July 18. Unplanned outages eased to 3‚300MW on July 25 from 3‚400MW on July 22 and 2‚900MW on July 18. The unplanned outages on Thursday compared with 2013’s low of 2‚450MW on June 6 and peak of 7‚657MW on April 22. So far in 2013‚ there have been only seven updates when unplanned outages have been below Eskom’s internal benchmark of having no more than 3‚600MW out of service due to unplanned outages. Eskom failed to achieve its internal benchmark more than 60 percent of the time in 2012.”

    Perhaps we are genuinely getting rid of the “legacy of Apartheid” by running Yskor and Eskom into the ground? Soon we we will have well and truly fucked up the formerly most “powerful economy in Africa”.

    Just imagine if Samantha and Gillian fancy security systems fail because of the power cuts and the “economic freedom” fighters slip through the cracks to come and collect their dues. They could even be mistaken for boers or racist Whites, you never know.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Dmwangi – WDYSTT?

    Former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum : “Unfortunately the homosexuals have ruined my marriage.”

    “Ever since the Supreme Court struck down DOMA, we’ve been sleeping in separate rooms. It’s like I don’t even know who she is anymore. This is what the gays want: to destroy the institution of marriage. We won’t be the last.”

    “The real problem was in the bedroom,” he says. “My wife kept complaining that I talked too much about gay sex while we were making love.

    http://dailycurrant.com/2013/07/29/rick-santorum-files-for-divorce-blames-the-gays/

    I suspect his wife didn’t just want to hear about it – but he was a man of words and no action!

    “I was just trying to explain how all the anal and oral things they do are filthy and disgusting compared to our intercourse. But apparently my wife didn’t appreciate hearing about bears and twinks while I was inside of her.”

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Gwebecimele says:
    July 31, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    You guys managing Cosatu’s multi-billion Rand investment funds are the reason Cosatu is losing members. You give kak service and even kakker advice to NUM members. Guy I know was a mill-liner at Harmony in Randfontein. He got retrenched. Government (LOL! This is one time I do not point out the distinction between state and government!) took 55% of his retrenchment package in tax. He paid his house off, paid his car off and bought a farm. Then he sat at home and worried. Fortunately his boss phoned a couple of days later and said “Kom, ons moet Rustenburg toe gaan, ons het miskien werk.” OK, so maybe they’re unemployed again soon thanks to AMCU but they started on R18000 a month.

    Why didn’t you smart investment analysts tell NUM members not to take out their whole package in cash but to move it to say an annuity?

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Ozoneblue says:
    July 31, 2013 at 13:24 pm

    Max is weer besig om kak te praat. Ek hou so van daai storie waarvolgens Genl SMuts sy oupa laat skiet het as ‘n volksverraaier. Hoop dit is waar.

  • Ozoneblue

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    I refer you again to 1922.

    “The Rand Revolt was a calamity that inflicted suffering on every section of the community. It cost many lives and millions of pounds. About 200 people were killed – including many policemen, and more than 1,000 people were injured. Fifteen thousand men were put out of work and gold production slumped. In the aftermath, some of the rebels were deported and a few were executed for deeds that amounted to murder. John Garsworthy, leader of the Brakpan commando, was sentenced to death, but he was later reprieved. Four of the leaders were condemned to death and went to the gallows singing their anthem, ‘The Red Flag’. Smuts was widely criticized for his severe handling of the revolt. He lost support and was defeated in the 1924 general election. This gave Hertzog’s Nationalist Party and the Labour Party, supported by white urban workers, the opportunity to form a pact. The white miners were forced to accept the mine owners’ terms unconditionally, and gold production again increased because of the use of a higher proportion of African labour, lower wages for whites, and new labour-saving devices which had come into operation. After this, as South Africa grew increasingly industrialized, the government came under stronger pressure to protect skilled white workers in mining and in the manufacturing industry.”

    http://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/rand-rebellion-1922

    My grand dad slaved away all his life working side by side with black people and eventually succumbed to emphysema. Much the same tale of abject poverty on the other side of the family. If gwebs/FFE/Malema/Mngxitama or whatever these emotional cripples like to call themselves think I should feel guilty about any of that they can go fuck himself.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Wat verwag jy? Oom Jannie was eerstens ‘n Afrikaner patriarg. Hy gaan nie vir jou luister nie want dan het jy vir hom ore aangesit.

    Hy was ook die briljantste student wat Skelmbosch nog opgelewer het, een van die briljantste wat Cambridge nog gesien het en seker die briljantste Boere Generaal van die Tweede Vryheidsoorlog. (Tweede van Drie?)

    Oom Jannie het goed geweet die twee uitstaande Afrikaner karaktertrekke was skynheiligheid en kleinlikheid en hoe hy verskil het van baie ander Afrikaner leiers is hy het geglo ons moet altyd voorentoe kyk en vernuwe.

    Hy het goed gedoen gekry instede van net praat.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Can someone explain to me why Rashied Staggie’s release on parole has not been stayed pending investigation of all these murders in which he appears to be a common denominator?

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/staggie-rape-victim-shot-1.1555357

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “The Rev says it like he sees it:”

    The Rev is right. Like Mr Mugabe, the Rev knows that the CATAMITE is an alien to African shores, and should go back to Sweden, or Holland, or East Timor, or wherever.

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
    July 31, 2013 at 18:56 pm

    Hey Goofy,

    “The Rev says it like he sees it”

    The Rev is just dumb.

    BTW do you know that the Pope loves gay people.

    Apparently he doesn’t want to go STRAIGHT to heaven.

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Oh, I think in the category ‘Knowledge of the Word of the Lord’ the Rev is far more likely to walk away with the book prize than the Arch.

    Don’t you?

  • Maggs Naidu – Vavi, zip yourself! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?
    July 31, 2013 at 19:42 pm

    Brett,

    ‘Knowledge of the Word of the Lord’

    So the Rev is also a BULLSHITTER?

    p.s. Just in case it slipped your mind, there is no such thing as “the Word of the Lord” and there’s no such thing as “the Lord” (presuming you mean the fellow who it is said made WHITE people from mud!

  • Gwebecimele

    He said that the GFIP relied on the “user pays” principle in much the same way as was envisaged for the National Development Plan (NDP).

    “The great majority are raving about the NDP. Contained in there, the user pays principle features,” Mona said.

    “We think South Africans are reasonable, we think they will come round [to e-tolling].”

  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    That is just your silly opinion, Maggs.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    Mbabane – The Swaziland government has labelled South Africa a “politically immature” state with ignorant MPs, a Sapa correspondent reported on Wednesday.

    “Just because South Africa is better at soccer than Swaziland, the neighbouring country cannot dictate how Swaziland should be governed. They are off the mark. What they said lacks truth,” Swazi government spokesman Percy Simelane told the Swazi media

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
  • Ozoneblue

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    July 31, 2013 at 20:37 pm

    pffft… absolutely bizarre

    You have to love the firm grasp on history and reality held by some of the “indigenous” folks on this continent. I guess if we all have to roll back 400 years why not go all the way back to 300 BC. I also want to sue the Pope for the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre and driving my ancestors out of Holland.

  • Ozoneblue

    See that comment:

    “Jean Walles · Lake Washington Technical College
    The funniest part is that this nut job thinks he can beat a team of Jewish lawyers.”

    LOL.

  • Maggs Naidu – Jesus spelled backwards sounds like sausage! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    July 31, 2013 at 20:37 pm

    Dworky,

    Shut up.

    Stop spreading lies.

    Everyone knows Jesus is not dead.

    Well he was dead.

    The he rose from the dead.

    So the Jews didn’t kill him.

    Ok, they killed him.

    But he tricked them – he just pretended to be killed (for three days).

    Now he’s hiding in heaven cos he’s scared of the Mossad guys in the IZE!

    Also he doesn’t want to come back so that the ANC can rule forever!

  • Ozoneblue

    And while on the topic this rampant African race hatred mingled with bizarre antisemitism.

    DA premier race a ‘racial fight’: ANC

    “He was responding to the news that the Democratic Alliance’s Gauteng leader Jack Bloom and party spokesman Mmusi Maimane would vie for selection as the party’s preferred candidate for premier. “It is a clear indication that there are deeper fights taking place between blacks and whites because of greed, factional battles and rupture caused 1/8by 3/8 lack of policies and identity. We know that the DA is a white party and always want to hides behind a façade of a black face.” Maimane dismissed Ntuli’s comments as political rhetoric aimed at diverting public attention from the ANC’s failings. “They have no delivery record and are losing credibility. All they want to argue is race,” he said.”

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/da-premier-race-a-racial-fight-anc-1.1555825

    I honestly hope the DA annihilate these cunts. Not only in WC – but also in NC and Gauteng.

  • Maggs Naidu – Jesus spelled backwards sounds like sausage! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozoneblue
    July 31, 2013 at 20:52 pm

    OB,

    “why not go all the way back to 300 BC. I also want to sue the Pope”

    That’s like finding a coin marked 300 BC!

    Someone lied to you that there was a Pope BC!

  • Maggs Naidu – Zuma knows what he is doing! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Brett Nortje – Dunning–Kruger effect: Is it possible the ANC do not realise how badly they suck at running our country?

    Ag siestog. Om te dink daar is nie een Afrikaner wat kan bekostig om navorsing en statistiek-hou – van hoeveel Afrikaners vermoor is sedert 1994 – te finansier nie…..

    http://praag.org/?p=8210

    Koos Bekker R7bn richer in 5 short years
    July 31, 2013

    Naspers chief executive Koos Bekker’s remuneration package, which is currently valued at more than R7-billion before tax for the past five years, has broken all previous pay records for JSE executives and is expected to hold the record for the foreseeable future.
    The 74 percent surge in the Naspers N share price over the past 12 months, combined with Bekker’s unique remuneration arrangement, has generated several billions of rands of potential profits for Bekker.

    At a current price of R795, the 11.7 million shares that Bekker was awarded as remuneration for the five years to the end of March are worth R9.3bn. The cost to Bekker of the shares is just over R2bn.

    This puts the value of his remuneration package significantly ahead of any other executive on the JSE, including executives of companies that have their primary listing on an international bourse.

    Snip

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Michelle Solomon
    July 30, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Hey Michelle,

    David Bullard seems to suggest that you’re a crackpot with a wild imagination.

    What do you say to that?

    If you read the website http://www.journoactivist.com and scroll back to the entry for June 10th you will find an allegation that I requested a threesome with Michelle Solomon, the troubled author of this blog. Ms Solomon has desperately attempted to make herself famous as a rape activist and claims to be a journalist in the Eastern Cape. She was allegedly “raped” thirteen years ago but has never reported the rape.

    Last week she threatened to “out” the rapist on Twitter and asked if anybody would represent her should a civil action result. Surely a criminal charge would be more appropriate than an “outing” on Twitter, unless Ms Solomon is planning to extort some money from the alleged rapist.

    However, her bizarre comments about my request for group sex (I’ve never even met her and, anyway, I’m rather pernickety about any potential troilistic activity from a quality control point of view) would suggest that an awful lot of what Ms Solomon says or writes may be the result of a rather fevered imagination. If women want us to take the charge of rape seriously in this country then they need to persuade people like Michelle Solomon to stop indulging in fantasy.

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=395442&sn=Detail&pid=71616

  • Maggs Naidu – Hypocrisy fit for the DA! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    And from the graduate school which impresses WHITE people :

    Yale Officially Declares ‘Nonconsensual Sex’ Not That Big A Deal

    The word “rape” does not factor into Yale’s new report on how the university is handling sexual misconduct; instead, the act is described as “nonconsensual sex,” and it’s usually punishable by “written reprimand.” (Sometimes rapists have to spend some time thinking about respect!) According to the report, five of the six people Yale identified as nonconsensual sex-havers over the past six months either graduated without much stress or will be returning to campus in the fall. …

    Based on our analysis of the report, Yale has formally found sufficient evidence against six perpetrators of “nonconsensual sex” so far in 2013.* Of these six perpetrators, only one was suspended, and only for one year. Four received “written reprimands,” and one is on “probation.” To summarize: five out of these six perpetrators of rape will graduate with a slap on the wrist (and an Ivy League diploma!) or stay on campus, and the sixth can come back in a year. Hey: most of them were encouraged to seek counseling. That’s thoughtful.

    http://jezebel.com/yale-officially-declares-nonconsensual-sex-not-that-b-988475927

  • Kay

    There’s a simple principle, that you shouldn’t expect of others what you don’t expect of yourself. You are so often pregnant with prejudice that I wonder what this article is about. Maybe if you gave us some jargon about the Constitution and the freedom to (strategically)
    solicit sex from any adult you please, I may have the energy to read this more carefully.

  • Kay

    There’s a simple principle, that you shouldn’t expect of others what you don’t expect of yourself. De Vos, you are so often pregnant with prejudice that I wonder what this article is about. Maybe if you gave us some jargon about the Constitution and the freedom to (strategically) solicit sex from any adult you please, I may have the energy to read this more carefully.

  • Maggs Naidu – WHITE People stole ALL the land! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Kay
    August 1, 2013 at 22:56 pm

    Kay,

    “I wonder what this article is about. … I may have the energy to read this more carefully.”

    You’re wondering what this article is about but you haven’t read it carefully?

    Perhaps if you did read it carefully, you won’t be wondering what it is about.

    On the other hand, maybe not!

  • 13108213

    I tend to ask myself the same question. What prevents all these people that are judging, including myself, from leaving out their personal opinions; What prevents us from “truly” judging others objectively.

    Many may argue that judging others should be out the question regardless. However for those of us that judge either way, we (very often) tend to let our personal feelings, stereotypes, frustrations and personal experience get in the way, which inevitably clouds our judgement. In some cases, but not every often, they tend to be “correct”. However, this does not give people the right to carry on doing so, or even do so in the first place.

    All of the facts aside, homicide or culpable homicide, as Pierre mentioned, I would not be comfortable to let someone in my home that is okay with shooting through the bathroom door, with the apparent hopes of killing an intruder. I think it’s sad that this case has been going on for so long and that it’s been receiving so much attention, especially since there are actually more important matters that need to be attended to. There is so much money and legal intercourse that is being put into this case, and I personally think it’s just because Oscar is an iconic figure as a world known paralympian. However, I feel that people shouldn’t be so quick to judge, just because of his 1. Race 2. Gender 3. Social status, and whatever else people feel right to judge him about. What he did was wrong, either way, whether he intended to kill his girlfriend or not – But people should not use these factors against him to make him look bad. It’s distasteful.

    I know that such a negative view doesn’t help and that a more positive approach is believed to lead to a better outcome in the end, if everyone contributed.
    Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world, and such judgments, not even in the eyes of Law, will probably never see the light of day.