Is it at all possible to write sensibly but critically about the way in which the concept of “transformation” has evolved in kleptocratic South Africa? “Transformation” has become a buzzword that is much bandied about and much abused, but few people explain what they mean when they use the word. Like mother hood and apple pie, it is assumed to be an unqualified human good and as such “transformation” is now used much like the rights in the Bill of Rights are used: as trumps to stop any political analysis, argument or the asking of any uncomfortable questions.
Back in 1998, a progressive American academic called Karl Klare wrote an extremely influential and since then much quoted article in which he argued that ours could be seen as a transformative Constitution. Klare argued that as a progressive supporter of the democratic project, one not only could but should interrepret our Constitution as a transformative document.
He claimed that it could be read thus for several reasons. First, he argued that the constitutional text was historically self-conscious, by which I took him to have meant that when interpreting and applying the Constitution, judges were allowed to keep in mind the history of oppression, struggle and the denial of human dignity out of which it was born.
When a judge has to decide whether the arrest, torture and detention of an ordinary citizen (or journalist) was lawful, she could do so with reference to the constitutional text that bans such lawlessness, yes, but also with the ever present and dark memory of the detention, torture and eventual murder of Steve Biko in mind. When a judge had to consider whether to grant an eviction order, she could take into account not only section 26(3) of the Bill of Rights but could also keep the memory of forced removals and the inhuman and degrading effects of that policy on ordinary people alive.
Second, the Constitution was transformative, Klare argued, because it contained an equality clause that explicitly endorsed corrective measures that would help to right the wrongs of past racial oppression. Moreover, it contained a set of social and economic rights which empowered courts to assist ordinary citizens to access the most basic services and benefits required to live a life with a semblance of human dignity.
Lastly, the Bill of Rights explicitly stated that it applied not only vertically against the state, but also horizontally against private individuals and institutions (which were so complicit in the enforcement of apartheid and benefited so hugely from it) and required judges to take into account the spirit and object of the Bill of Rights when interpreting legislation or developing the common law and customary law.
This vision of transformation is, in its way, a radical vision which has as yet not come to pass. It envisages a complete transformation of the legal system as well as a dismantling of the structures which still help to perpetuate the disgraceful racial and gender inequality in our society and continues to subjugate the majority of South Africans – both economically and socially.
Sadly, few lawyers and judges have embraced this vision of a transformative constitutional project. While most pay lip-service to the need for transformation and claim to endorse the transformative vision of the Constitution, it is as if the old had colonised the new by co-opting them in the opppression of the majority of citizens. The concept of “transformation” is now often used – so it seems to me – as a band-aid to hide and legitimise the continued injustice and inequality that is perpetrated by the old business elite and the new political and business elite.
Although more than half of all judges are now black, most judges still do not use the Constitution as they are entitled to do, to try and address the fundamental injustice inherent in our legal system. Many of the basic assumptions underlying the common law – the unqualified benefits of a free market, the alleged freedom to choose, the equal power of all roleplayers – are still vigorously enforced by both black and white judges – even when it benefit the business elite and the politicians and perpetuate the oppression and marginalisation of the masses of our people.
When a pensioner is stabbed and rushed to hospital and she is forced to sign an indemnity form by that hospital, most of our judges – black and white – will endorse the absurd fiction that while she was lying on a trolley, bleeding to death, she had exactly the same bargaining power as the hospital to enter freely into a contract. They will hence find that the Hospital could not be held liable for the negligent amputation of her arms and legs and dismiss any claim against the Hospital.
Real and deep transformation is the enemy of the elite – black and white - because if deep transformation is actually implemented, it will transform the very system that we all benefit from so handsomely, that allows us to drive to work in million Rand cars without having to step out into the streets where people are dying of hunger and disease. Why support deep transformation if one is benefiting from the system?
Politicians are particularly good at this kind of double speak about transformation. They shout and scream about the need for transformation, by which they usually mean the replacement of greedy, white, heartless, capitalists, with greedy black heartless capitalists (who are preferably their friends and relatives who will also help to enrich them and will assure that they benefit from the looting of state coffers).
It reminds one of the saying in the apartheid era that white English-speaking South Africans voted for the Progs of Helen Suzman, but went on their knees every night to thank God that the Nationalists were still in power to “protect” them from the black majority. The new elite can still be found on their knees, from where they can pay lip-service to the masses of our people and the need to address poverty while they stuff their pockets with the loot offered to them by more or less the same system that operated during the apartheid years.
Of course, many things have changed since the days when PW Botha wagged his finger at us on TV, mangled the English language beyond recognition and allowed his security services to torture and kill those South Africans who did not find him charming. The National Party is no more and on an emotional (and even legal) level we are all far more free than we used to be. Even if the new elite does not care much for anyone but themselves, they do not actively hate the majority of the population and do not sit up at night to think of ways to humiliate black South Africans – as seemed to have been the case with the apartheid nutters.
We now live in a democracy and the government knows that they need the vote of the majority of South Africans to continue in power, and they need to continue in power if they want to continue reaping the benefits of BEE deals, corrupt tenders and the wonderful benefits bestowed on them by that other Bible called the Ministerial Handbbook. A welfare net of sorts has therefore been created to provide some needy South Africans with assistance in the form of social grants and pensions. These grants and pensions keep the majority of South Africans from rising up and from overthrowing the state and the system which benefits only a few.
(That is why the DA’s support for a basic income grant makes sense: with such a grant in place, the haves may buy some time. It allows them to continue to insist that while “transformation” is important it should not be taken to mean that anything should really change - except for the colour of the skins of those who exploit the rest of the population.)
So, yes, things have changed. But they have not changed in the way and to the extent promised by the transformative constitution.
“Transformation” has become a catchphrase to justify greed and self-interest and prevent the fundamental changes needed to actually address the monumental poverty and the criminal gap in wealth and personal circumstances between the rich (more and more a non-racial rich) and the poor (which remains largely black).
When politicians or the emerging business elite bleat on about the need for transformation I chuckle bitterly but knowingly. What do they mean when they say this? Do they mean that we should continue as before but should just have less white people with their snouts in the trough and more black people benefiting from the spoils of a system that remains – in its essential structure at least – not much different from that which operated under apartheid?
What is transformation? Can one eat it and use it as a blanket at night to ward off the cold? Will it provide a roof over one’s head, clean drinking water and electricity and a job that will allow one to live with a semblance of dignity? Can one feed one’s children with transformation and send them to school on it? Can one get good medical care (I have not yet seen any pharmacy stocking transformation pills that will make us all healthy) and protect oneself and one’s loved one’s from crime with a transformation blanket? Don’t think so.
When Julius Malema talks about the need for a revolution, or when Jimmy Manyi talks about the need to speed up transformation, all while driving in an obscenely large cars and splashing out on the most expensive luxuries, why don’t we all just laugh (or maybe spit) in their faces and point out that these are words – only empty words – used to keep the majority of South Africans in their place: poor, powerless and ready to acquiesce in their own oppression.
Maybe we should ban anyone from using the word and find new words to talk about the need to change this country. “Transformation” does not cut the mustard. It has become a hollow and empty word, devoid of any real meaning.
Since the mid-1990s, I always felt a little bile rise in my throat whenever I heard the word ‘transformation’. By then it was clear already that the only lives to be transformed were those of the upper-middle classes and the elites. ‘Transformation’, as you point out, was then already fast becoming a shibboleth by which to rubber stamp surface changes: replace a white face with a black face, replace a penis with a vagina, etc., but without any consideration about how process and content might be transformed. But that’s South Africa – concerned more with appearance than substance.
“We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;”
– TS Eliot
Prof, brilliant article and choice of topic. I am a committed to the overall and comprehensive transformation of South African society.
I am glad that you have commented on how historical context has been ignored by many including our ‘learned’ jurists.
If I could be so bold to offer a small contribution. Don’t you also think that due to the freedoms and rights being used by those opposed to transformation i.e. ‘old money’, private sector, middle class, etc, this has allowed the new elites to preach transformation wherein the only beneficiaries are themeselves?
In my opinion, the problem with the whole idea of transformation is that the focus is on transforming that which already exists, without creating “new” transformation vehicles.
There are only so many jobs that currently exist. By reshuffling and putting Blacks into jobs held by Whites, you are only addressing a small part of the economic sector.
We should be creating new opportunities, but this is immensely difficult. Small rural towns, such as the one in which I live, do not have many opportunities for economic growth and sustainability. We get the odd short-term government contract, but beyond that, the job market is finite.
Current legislative requirements make it incredibly difficult for people to start their own businesses, get tenders and upskill themselves. A silly example is that to remain registered as a business on CIPRO costs R 100.00 per year. You cannot be a sub-contractor unless you are registered. You cannot afford R 100.00 unless you have work.
Prof, the basic income grant would be of immense value to people who live in a town with 86% unemployment and where there are no members in a household who are employed and who also do not qualify for any other form of financial assistance. How else do these people survive?
I agree with Rustum and Samantha above (and with this excellent post by Prof De Vos).
We must come to accept that TRANSFORMATION does not (or rather should not) equal WINDOW DRESSING. Transformation must go much deeper than skin-level. What does the Constitution and its values “permeate” (in the words of Mahomed DP – as he then was) again?
I couldn’t help but feel depressed after reading this. It really is the case of as much as things change they stay the same. There seems to be less and less subtlety to the manner in which the coffers are being looted. The current cabinet went bananas within a few months of being appointed to their posts, spending millions on cars, staying for months in 5 star hotels. The disjoint between government and the average citizen is seemingly increasing to the detriment of the electorate.
Having an primary education system which seems fit only to reduce sentient human being into brain dead voting fodder is only going help the money grabbing fools stay in power.
As a tax payer I feel cheated by the government. I have no issues with paying tax if it is going to be used for legitimate purposes, but funding our President’s legal woes, bailing out Eskom, paying for optional extras on 7-series BMW’s for our esteemed cabinet hardly seems legitimate in a country of desperate poverty, rampant HIV and innumerable problems as a legacy of apartheid.
Pierre, this is a good contribution. I agree. “Transformation” (Like “Ubuntu”), is a word made meaningless by overuse and opportunistic co-option.
Having read your piece, however, I still do not understand what exactly you mean by “Transformation.” At points, you seem to suggest that it can be defined negatively: Transformation is everything that apartheid was not. Other times, you associate Transformation positively with “values” like fairness, justice, substantive equality. But this does not take us far beyond the pleasant vacuities of Motherhood and Apple Pie.
My proposal is that we define Transformation in economic terms – as Socialism. (Or, more precisely, as systemic change in the direction of a fully socialised economy.) True, Socialism is itself a contested concept. But at least there are somewhat objective measures – like the percentage of assets in private hands — to which one could refer.
I suspect many who claim to support Transformation, including yourself, would shy away from frankly invoking Socialism because you fear alienating those for whom the term Socialism is a bogey-man.
But I do not think you should let that stop you. Rather come out with a candid, substantive defense of Socialism, then propose a set of concrete steps we can take to move society in that direction.
@ Michael
Fully agree with your assessment. We can bring other dimensions to add to the economic factors such as culture, which defies logic in this country. How does a 79% majority becomes a cultural minority?.
Don’t worry Gwebecimele: “… How does a 79% majority becomes a cultural minority?”
South Africa is quickly turning into a real African state. You will feel very much at home in another few years.
Prof,
Thanks for this article. You’re asking the question that has been in many people’s minds for quite a while….
@ Kruger
I forsee a good conversation between yourself and Malema.
May be its time to make good use of your passport. Greece, Portugal(PIGS) will welcome you.
Tony Leon wrote in 2006 (in: Opposing Voices: Liberalism and Opposition in South Africa Today: Milton Shain (Ed), Jonathan Ball Publishers, 2006), as follows: “The strategy for achieving ‘African hegemony’ is called ‘transformation’. This is a word that is often presented as a constitutional imperative, yet the word ‘transformation’ does not appear once in South Africa’s Constitution. In fact, ‘transformation’ has become one of South Africa’s foremost ‘weasel words’, defined as a term that has been emptied of all meaning, one that is used to obfuscate and hide the truth. … ‘Transformation’ is a ‘weasel word’ because it means something quite different from what is usually advertised: it is not aimed at redressing the racial inequalities of the past and creating equal opportunities for all. First and foremost, ‘transformation’ means the extension of the ANC’s power over the State and all sectors of society. As Joel Netshitenzhe, writing in the ANC’s journal Umrabulo, explains: ‘Transformation of the state entails, first and foremost, extending the power of the National Liberation Movement over all levers of power: the army, the police, the bureaucracy, intelligence structures, the judiciary, … the public broadcaster, the central bank and so on. Secondly, ‘transformation’ is a project of racial social engineering …”.
This is why ‘transformation’ is such an insulting term. And that it why it is so horrendous to refer to a “transformative” constitution. If the term “transformative constitution” catches on, we have a constitution which must primarily ensure the extension of the ANC’s power over the state and all sectors of society … including the judiciary.
That is why it is so spine-chilling to see even the judges of the Constitutional Court referring to a transformative constitution. Such a transformative constitution is the antithesis of a constitutional state. In the proper sense.
Thus: What does “transformation” actually mean?? Really mean? So far it’s a type of secret term.
Pierre, your “quote of the week,” attributing to Goebbels the sentiment “the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State,” is itself a little misleading.
Goebbels and other Nazis did not overtly support the “big lie” technique. Rather, they attributed that kind of deception to their enemies, Britain and Russia and the U.S.
In a 1941 article titled “ Churchill’s Lie Factory,” Goebbels wrote:
“The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.”
See http://www.bytwerk.com/gpa/falsenaziquotations.htm
@JFA
You are also paying R300 000 per months for malema’s security. LoL!
Been wondering about the same thing. If you read my comment in the previous discussion you will realise that this has been on my mind for a long time. The most fundamental question you have to ask Prof is: If the Nats were able to transform South Africa to benefit Afrikaners, why can’t the “Black government” do the same. The Nats transformed a society which in general benefited the English and made sure that Afrikaners benefited too at the expense of blacks. Should we then use the same strategies that the Nats used: Job reservations etc? Will this all be constitutional? I ask again as I asked before what is the alternative to transformation (or whatever you may call it)?
South African in the past 16 years has increased its black middle class from close to non existent to above 20% of the working class. The figure was sitting above 9.3 million in 2007. 52% of black people earning R8, 000 or more per month are employed by the state or a state owned enterprise.
“Three-quarters of all South African families now live in a “formal” home (usually a concrete or brick bungalow instead of a rough shack or thatched mud hut), up from just under two-thirds in 1996. The vast majority now have electricity and access to clean piped water. Half of black families have flushing loos, compared with barely a third in 1996; three-quarters have a television; and eight in ten have access to a phone, usually a mobile. Many municipalities provide a basic amount of water, electricity and sanitation free to poor families.
There is only one magic wand to make sure that blacks occupy a bigger piece of the economic pie: Legislation that will force companies to meet certain targets by certain dates. At the moment companies develop their own targets and when they don’t meet these targets there is no punishment for not meeting them. All government does is issue press statements about its findings. I ask again should we implement the Nats strategy so that we see immediate results?
I see that you feel transformation should mean that there should be no black elite. If there is; this elite should act differently to “white” elite. Why should this be the case? Don’t the elite abuse the “poor” to maintain their status in society. Doesn’t this happen all over the world? Why should this be different here?
Prof,
Sorry sir, but there are some massive holes in some aspects of your argument. I agree with the part of your argument that you are currently ruled by klemptomaniacs, although there have been others saying that for a long time, while you remained in denial.
It appears your hate for the alleged ‘apartheid nutters’, is severely clouding your thinking.
For weeks I have asked you to define what you mean by the word ‘racism’. For weeks you have simply ignored me, as if I am some piece of scum, so despicable I do not deserve any response from King de Vos.
I asked cause the only really clear definition of racism I have ever seen, I read in American Philosophy Professor Gedaliah Braun’s book, and according to that definition of ‘racism’…. Prof. de Vos is a racist bigot of note.
The difference with other bigots being they are willing to acknowledge their bigotry and to justify it, which according to Dr. Braun’s ‘racist’ definition, means they are not ‘racists’, because they are willing to change their mind, given evidence justifying such a change.
So, I ask again, would King de Vos, please provide us with his definition of racism, so we can know what he means.
Now to your transformation argument!
Your argument only holds if it is true, i.e. based upon legal evidence, about the ‘crime of apartheid’. I am not denying that individual acts of violence and political violence occurred.
The only fully impartial investigation into the ‘crime of apartheid’ that ever occurred, found South Africa NOT GUILTY. i.e. the International Court of Justice in the Hague, in the South West Africa matter (Liberia v South Africa and Ethiopia v South Africa). SA delivered a written presentation of 3000 pages, called 15 expert witnesses who testified that fifty countries practiced a form of apartheid between groups, classes or races forty of them members of the UN at the time, including Ethiopia and Liberia. The petitioners refused to appear in person to testify and be cross examined, even though S. Africa offered to pay all their expenses. S. Africa was found not guilty of practicing the ‘crime of apartheid’ in Namibia.
You see what you suffer from Prof. de Vos, is that your thinking occurs at the level of consciousness known as the level of belief. This is — according to the Sufi’s and other studies on consciousness — the lowest level of consciousness, and 92% of humanity share your level of consciousness.
If so, it is why you are incapable (perhaps as a result of your suppressed anger) of being able to see the real rainbow and accurate history and origins of both apartheid, and the current dispensation.
A few examples:
1. FACT: Poor blacks under apartheid had the highest socio-economic, educational living standards in Africa: For example: In 1961, foreign minister of SA, Eric Louw’s presentation to UN: a factual comparison of the living conditions of blacks in South Africa compared to other African states. He proved that Blacks in SA had a higher per capita income, better educational opportunities170, far superior medical and social services and altogether a higher standard of living than anywhere in Africa.
2. Fact: Blacks had a Powerful Vote Under Apartheid, more Powerful than their current PR vote: “Undoubtedly, racial inequity existed and full democracy was absent. But social, health and material provisions — the best in Africa — existed for black people. Long before 1994, blacks had voted directly, at least, for urban and rural councils and executives — izibonda and bungas. Now all races don’t even vote for central and provincial legislators but for mere party representatives.” (Salute the bravery and vision of SA’s founders, Meshack Mabogoane, Business Day, 2010/05/05)
3. Given the African Historical Premise that universal franchise for a black majority, where that black majority ‘ubuntu’ worldview of conformity with authority, understand ‘elections’ as some kind of war, invented by whites, but war nonetheless; and in a war to the victor belongs the spoils; universal franchise to the ignorant masses, eventually means ZERO franchise.
Conclusion: This understanding or meaning of ‘democracy’ means it is perfectly all right for blacks to oppress blacks, for blacks to massively oppress blacks, for blacks to terrorize and mass-murder blacks in the hundreds of thousands; yet profoundly wrong for whites to treat blacks decently (i.e. to provide the governance and rule of law required where poor blacks benefit from the highest socio-economic living standards on the continent), but without national suffrage.
******
Example Numero 2:
FACT A: Black and white cultures in South Africa are hugely different For example in cultural values of: (a) religion, (b) procreation habits, (c) family values, (d) value of financial savings and concentration of wealth, (d) military honour, (e) etc.
FACT B: Just War International theory holds that were two groups who are in a war situation hold massively different cultures, the ‘just war’ concept is NOT VALID. It is only applied and valid between cultures who share many cultural values. (Just War Theory, by Alexander Mosele)
FACT C: Even if SA’s white and black cultures were similar. If so, and you applied the Just War principle, based purely upon Fact No #A & B, the ANC’s liberation struggle was NOT A JUST WAR; unless they condemned and continue to condemn, every single black African goverment who treats their poor blacks far far worse than Apartheid treated blacks.
For these reasons a TRC committee had to be put together by Nelson Mandela, who is well aware of this reality, which would COVER UP, the truth, WHICH WOULD NEVER INVESTIGATE THE DEMOGRAPHIC ORIGINS OF APARTHEID, WHICH WOULD COVER UP THE ANC’S TREATMENT OF ITSOWN PEOPLE AS BEING WORSE AND MORE DESPICABLE THAN ANYTHING APARTHEID EVER DID; I.E. the people’s war of terror and fear in the townships, to force everyone to join the ‘struggle’. Unlike Chile’s TRC which included 50% of the old regime and 50% of the new, the ANC’s TRC was stacked with over 95% of ANC supporters, who had NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN RAINBOW HISTORY PERSPECTIVES OR IMPARTIAL ENQUIRY, only in finding enough to justify the alleged ‘criime of apartheid’ and censoring that which proved the alternative!
In fact if you examine the Just War principles, of which there are six; the ANC’s liberation struggle DOES NOT MEET ONE OF THOSE PRINCIPLES, to justify the ‘liberation struggle’ as a ‘just war’!
NOT ONE!
Your ‘democracy’ marriage and TRC Social contract is founded on massive FRAUD! i.e. LIES AND DECEPTION.
As you must be aware, any marriage founded upon lies and deception, is not going to produce love, but hate, lots and lots of hate and more hate. Lots of anger and more anger. The more the people are required to deny and suppress their anger at being betrayed and lied to, the more angry they get, and the more they take their anger out, not on the powerful people who lied to them, and betrayed them, but on those the powerful people setup as scapegoats…
Finally… about all those poor people you are so allegedly concerned about, does your concern from them include being honest with them? Does your concern for someone mean you are honest with them, or you prefer to keep them ignorant of what keeps them in victimhood, so that you can benefit from this co-dependent relationship of poverty pimping?
**************
Back to the Future: Go back and read SAIRR Race Relations reports, to see how those ‘racist nutters’ were attempting to educate and raise black leaders educational levels about the relationship between procreation and poverty…
For example: 1992/93 Race Relations Survey by the South African Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR), we are told that the high population growth is the cause of growth in poverty, unemployment and squatter camps, and most of the serious problems in South Africa; Population pressures are destroying the environment; the IFP and FRD call for ethics of 2 children per family as urgent population control priority…
Meanwhile the ANC — LIKE Hitler — had banned contraception, and young ANC cadres were encouraged to spread their seed and impregnate young ANC women, including by force and rape, with future cannon fodder, in what was known as ‘OPERATION PRODUCTION’, … (Johannes Harnischfeger, Witchcraft and the State in South Africa * German version of published in Anthropopos, 95/ 2000, S. 99-112. [PDF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/34180512 See also Women in the ANC and SWAPO: sexual abuse of young women in the ANC camps, by Olefile Samuel Mngqibisa [PDF: http://www.scribd.com/doc/32956931)
****
UNPFA Fact Sheet: Population Growth and Poverty:
http://www.unfpa.org/public/site/global/lang/en/pid/3856
Thomas says:
August 12, 2010 at 12:28 pm
“I see that you feel transformation should mean that there should be no black elite. ”
Maybe.
But does transformation equate exclusively to the creation of a wealthy Black elite?
I would rather the pursuit of an environment towards the creation of a better life for all, in the process creating the space for the emergence of Black elite.
The end game seems to have become the the creation of the elite, which in itself is ok, but certainly the other elements of transformation seems to have been set by the wayside – in the process the space has unfortunately been narrowed mainly for those who are politically connected.
Ours is an extremely well endowed country (per capita probably the best in the world) whether we consider mineral resources, good climate, vast agricultural lands, excellent fishing grounds – there’s absolutely no reason for the Gini coefficient to be as skewed as it is.
The biggest let down are the ex political activists who were deployed at all spheres of society to make a difference – with a few exceptions, perhaps Vavi and Nzimande, most of the rest have become not much more than oxygen consumers which is a damned disgrace.
mayimele says:
August 12, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Nasty.
You want the oke to have a seizure?
Kruger says:
August 12, 2010 at 11:03 am
Hey Kruger,
“South Africa is quickly turning into a real African state”.
South Africa is a real African state and it has been for a looooooooooong time!
Duh!
@ Thomas
“Don’t the elite abuse the “poor” to maintain their status in society. Doesn’t this happen all over the world? Why should this be different here?”
The reason that our black elite is different is because South African blacks know from very recent memory what it is like to suffer under the heel of repression and exploitation. It is for this reason that BEE beneficiaries see themselves as holding wealth as trustees for the poorest of our people.
History teaches that victims do not become victimisers!
Thanks.
This also leaves me feeling depressed but on reflection arent we just flogging a dead horse? As Thomas points out, elites always ultimately expolit the poor. There is no truly equal “transformed” society in existence – the rotten underbelly is always there be it the US or anywhere else.
The reason why the Afrikaners could uplift themselves through their version of AA was because of their small numbers. I am quite sure that the kind of cadre deployment we have seen here has created more jobs for black SA’s than the NP ever did for its own. And does this version of transfomation lead to a better fairier society? I would argue it hasnt – certainly not recently with the way it has destroyed service delivery.
We should start with the basics – curb government expenditure/corruption – and educate and create jobs. Until we have that right, all the nice transformative judgments mean very little – Mrs Grootboom died without a house if I recall. I agree with Samantha – a basic income grant is essential and hardly a tool to maintain the status quo. If it only helps 5% of the population rise out of poverty it will have worked.
Recent state exceses have for the first time ever made me think twice about the tax I pay. If I could pay it into a fund knowing it would go to build houses or pay a teacher I would do that rather than let Nyanda and co spend it on hotels.
Prof
Its a pitty I dont have your email address cos my concerns would have been more appropriate addressed privately but any way here goes:
I was personally “discharged” from the Public Service here in the Free State for apparent abscondment/continued absenteesm (of 30 consecutive days) without authorisation this was in 2006, with my bosses invoking s 17(5)(a)(i) of the Public Service Act. We (me and my union) immediately appealed to the “executing authority” in terms of the very next section 17(5)(b) which provides for such, and the MEC upheld my discharge, further advising that if I am unhappy I have a right to reffer the matter to the Public Health and Welfare Sector Bargaining Council, PHWSBC, (which is some sort of Public Service CCMA so to speak).
The commisioner who presided over the matter refused to entartain the matter save to issue an award qouting the then SCA decision in the Phenithi case that “such dismissals fall outside the jurisdiction of the council and can only be arbitrated by the Labour Court”.
We referred the matter to the Labour Court and received the matter was set for trial from the 10th August. Before the matter could even start, my lawyers were aware of the recent case law of Van der Walt, wherein the same judge, Francis who was to hear my case that morning, had in fact said that the SCA was wrong in the Phenithi case, i.e bargaining councils or CCMA can in fact arbitrate on such dismissals. Then they (both my counsel and that of the state) approached him in his chambers to try and see if they can convince him to hear the matter anyway despite his recent judgement – he refused. They then again attempted in an open court, He still refused. Eventually he just issued an court order saying the matter is referred BACK to the bargaining council for hearing. For all I know, the Bargaining Council will hear the matter after 6 (SIX) months, IF not more and IF they even agree to hear it in the first place.
…mind you we are now FULL FOUR YEARS after the my unlawful “discharge” from the public service and tell me if this is “transformative” justice, or justice at all. I simply dont know what to do.
@ Henri
The Tony Leon piece you quote unfortunately confuses two distinct meanings of the word transformation.
When the CC judges (and, I think), Pierre, use the phrase “transformative constitutionalism,” they are employing it in a quite specifically technical sense, pointed in the Karl Klare article to which Pierre referred. Klare proposes that, unlike the US Const — which was intended to define rights ex ante, and preserve them into the future– the SA constitution was envisaged as forward looking, in that courts would actively lead the development of an evolving rights discourse, and nudge society in a direction that rendered rights meaningful. One may or may not agree with Klare’s reading, but I cannot see it as deeply objectionable.
This is quite different from the sense in which the term “Transformation” has sometimes been used, to refer to a sinister authoritarian process, which Leon correctly warns of.
The latter usage is well captured by Dyzenhaus in a 2007 SALJ piece, in which he compared “Transformation” to “Gleichschaltung,” a word used in Germany after 1933 to describe the process of bringing into gear or synchrony all organs of state so as to ensure an efficient machine for the unchecked implementation of the regime’s Policy.
Dyzenhaus writes:
“While any such analogy is deeply provocative, it seems clear that transformation risks becoming like Gleichschaltung in the face of both deep resentments about persisting white privilege and the government’s tendency ‘to play the race card’ by equating any opposition to its power and policies to yet another attempt to reassert such privilege.”
[See 124 S. African L.J. 734 (2007)
‘Pasts and Future of the Rule of Law in South Africa.’
@ Michael Osborne,
Fine.
But how do we know in which sense the CC judges use the term?
Have they EVER said in which sense – or are they playing this “weaseling” game to satisfy all parties?
Have they ever openly rejected the authoritarian meaning???
The answer is NO.
Ex judge Sachs [ oh so deeply revered by everybody] was deeply insulted to be called “counterrevolutionary” by some. Why?
Just as colonalism came shrouded in such catch prases as “civilisation of the heathens” dictatorship may also be cocooned in a beautiful blanket called “transformation”
The ANC had no choice but to make the 1994 transition as resounding as possible if not in real sense, then in its apearance, thus transformation was born as a brand name for all that the ANC was to do to better our lives.
How does one project the muzzling of the dissenting voices through this information or misinofrmation bill as “transformation”?
The truth is that the word “transformation” like all other words is capable of being mutiliated into oblivion.
Questions about Mandela’s icon status.
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/YourStory/Nonexistent-Mandela-20100811
Could this be one of the reasons he is not one of the leaders recognised for their role in fighting for the freedom, rights and human dignity of our people?
Oops, meant to say he is not one of the leaders recognised at the Freedom Park for their role in fighting for the freedom, rights and dignity iof our people.
‘The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern.’
–Lord Acton
Rustum says:
August 12, 2010 at 9:13 am
Transformation means ” The National Democratic Revolution” of the ANC/SACP
Allianceand the ANCYL.
Incidentally, Rustum, here is T.S. Eliots’s full poem which could easily have been wrtten
for some of the fundamentalist characters that abide at the Constitutionallyspeaking blog :
On lies, self-defense and Israeli impunity
Jun 1st, 2010
by Pierre De Vos.
Nimrod says:
June 3, 2010 at 8:56 am
T.S. Eliot – The Hollow Men
Mistah Kurtz — he dead.
A penny for the Old Guy
I
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us — if at all — not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.
II
Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death’s dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind’s singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.
Let me be no nearer
In death’s dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat’s coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer –
Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom
III
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man’s hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
Is it like this
In death’s other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.
IV
The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms
In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death’s twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.
V
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Hi Prof, thanks for another timely message. I wish you health, strength and courage as you are doing necessary work in dangerous times.
Perhaps we need to step deeper into the meaning of transformation. I quote the text of Romans 12:2
“Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
Not because I want to make this a ‘religious’ discussion but simply to make the point that humanity has always twisted words to suit those with vested powers and material interests. I rejoice that the constitution has been so written to give space for the inner notion of change towards equality, growth, justice etc. But as has been said before ‘the law and government is only as good as the people who apply it’.
Surely the role of education (in the fullest sense of the word) needs to enjoy a higher state of awareness and thus by extension, are we not ultimately shooting ourselves in the foot by dismissively negating, ridiculing, denigrating and sidelining ‘religious’ input. I am so aware of the dismissive attitudes by the youth league and certain members of the ANC towards Father Desmond Tutu and any other critical or prophetic voice. We are slowly undermining the ‘moral fabric’ of our society? If we lose the sense of our ‘magnetic north’ can we wonder that the moral compass simply spins aimlessly? Is not true transformation that which is present continuous sense and that each of us needs to rigorously examine the three fingers that point back at us?
A quote that made a profound impact on me:
CHARLES COLSON, IN his book of essays Who Speaks for God?, tells of watching a segment of television’s 60 minutes in which host Mike Wallace interviewed Auschwitz survivor Yehiel Dinur, a principal witness at the Nuremberg war-crimes trials…
During the interview, a film clip from Adolf Eichmann’s 1961 trial was viewed that showed Dinur entering the courtroom and coming face to face with Eichmann for the first time since being sent to Auschwitz almost twenty years earlier. Stopped cold, Dinur began to sob uncontrollably and then fainted while the presiding judge pounded his gavel for order.
“Was Dinur overcome by hatred? Fear? Horrid memories?” asks Colson, who then answers:
No; it was none of these. Rather, as Dinur explained to Wallace, all at
once he realized Eichmann was not the godlike army officer who had sent so many to their deaths. This Eichmann was an ordinary man. “I was
afraid about myself,” said Dinur. “I saw that I am capable to do this. I am …exactly like he.”
Sorry if this sounds preachy, but sometimes we need to think on these things.
AN Leigh says:
August 12, 2010 at 17:15 pm
Why apologise , Leigh ?
There is much hypocricy expressed on this blog and elsewhere .
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 7:1-4
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
“For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eve, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eve?”
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 12, 2010 at 13:00 pm
It is for this reason that BEE beneficiaries see themselves as holding wealth as trustees for the poorest of our people.
How happy must the poor not be that they have these champions as trustees: “That guy is holding that Mercedes in trust for ma! Eureka!”
A major defect in many of the conversations on this blog is
the appalling ignorance of 20 th Century world history displayed by so
many participants .
In order to rectify this defect bloggers should
obtain a copy of Robert Conquests’s (
all know who he is ) book :
The Dragons of Expectation :
Reality and Delusion in the Course of History
“From the west I saw fly
the dragons of expectation,
and open the way of the fire-powerful;
they beat their wings,
so that everywhere it appeared to me
that earth and heaven burst. ”
-from a translation by Thomas Wright (1844) of the Poetic (or Elder) Edda.
Preface :
The title of this book is taken from a very unsanguine treatment of human fate-the Elder Edda, where the flight of these dragons opens the way to the “fire-powerful,” at which point it appears to the bard that “earth and heaven burst.”Some such disaster is indeed among the menaces that have accumulated to threaten our own possible future. But I have been even more struck by the phrase “dragons of expectation” itself. For quite apart from the worst perspective, it seems clear that something in the nature of otherworldly “expectations” has seized the minds of many in the West and elsewhere—with misleading thought about what faces us, much of it bred and projected from unreal obsessions about the still-living past.
Myths and manias have always flourished. Over the generations they have taken new forms: we review their nature and their origins, but also the more general mental atmosphere of less formal concepts and verbalizations from which they emerge, and which also strongly calls for much clarification. And, in that perspective, we go on to consider the current state of the humanities, as well as of the intellectual and evidential sphere.
Nimrod says:
August 12, 2010 at 18:57 pm
“A major defect in many of the conversations on this blog is the appalling ignorance of 20 th Century world history displayed by so many participants.”
Did you rectify all your defects just by reading that book?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 12, 2010 at 13:00 pm
Hey transformed Mossad Guy,
You should really read some of Nimrod’s suggested readings – Elliot, Conquest, Matthew.
When you’ve done that, consider the Mbalula model of transformation “The ANC is indestructible… in particular, Afrikaners are joining the ANC”.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article598635.ece/Corruption-is-counter-revolutionary–Mbalula
Or this
“ANC members who falter and engage in corrupt activities, they themselves must be arrested and must be named and shamed as corrupt,” Mbalula told reporters in Johannesburg.
From now on that is.
Or it may refer to those who have been exposed (while the Protection of Information thingy is still in the oven), caught, allowed to be prosecuted, allowed to be convicted and mainly fallen out of favour with the politically powerful.
Maybe he is being poetic in reference to “must be named and shamed as corrupt” – it’s kinda contrary to the hype about why the media needs to be cut to size.
@Dwork
(Quote) It is for this reason that BEE beneficiaries see themselves as holding wealth as trustees for the poorest of our people. (Quote)
This must be one of the most cynic comments in recent times as an explanation for theft. I suppose murderers also hold the lifes they took in trustship. And I also suppose the quote Arbeit macht frei (work frees you) above the gas chambers of Auschwitz was ernestly meant so??
(Quote) History teaches that victims do not become victimisers! (Quote)
Bullshit, if history teaches us anything then it is exactly the opposite.
How do you sleep at night??
@ Sonny
“How do you sleep at night??”
Maggs, please help me out here!
Also, Maggs, I have based most of my life and works on the texts that Nimrod has so kindly posted for our edification. Can you not tell?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 12, 2010 at 21:36 pm
LOL!
Hey Sonny,
You’re a tad bit hasty in jumping over Dworky – his most engaged subject of late has been GENOCIDE (c/o Brett).
In which case victims do not become victimisers.
How does he sleep at night?
Naked (c/o Sirjay) on his horse riding around some dorp, dreaming of small domestic sized nukes and a free world.
Hey Dwork,
With Mbalula’s revelation does it mean that now the ANC is transformed or does it mean that the Afrikaaners are transformed?
Or could it be that the ANC was transformed now it isn’t?
Perhaps there are transformed Afrikaaners who were waiting for the right moment to emerge from the closet.
Just maybe they see the light – join the struggle and not be poor.
Eish you can even ignore labour laws, environmental/water pollution regulations, corporate governance requirements, get prospecting licences to trade for massive shares, buy state enterprises with public funds, get to enjoy the Handbook privileges, get paid millions of rands to resign after being found to be corrupt.
Does this mean,as the Freedom Charter predicted, that there is now Peace and Friendship?
“We learn history not in order to know how to behave or how to succeed, but to know who we are.” ( Leszek Kolakowski )
Jul 30th 2009
From The Economist print edition :
Leszek Kolakowski, a Polish-born Oxford philosopher, died on July 17th, aged 81
Another Quote :
” When you read
The Revolutionary Catechism
by Sergey Nechayev (1847-1882)
you will hear (horribly perverted) echoes of the
blazing missionary zeal and self denial of early Christianity. More than any other document, the ‘Catechism’ is the illustration of the fact that ‘communism is the perrversion of Christianity.’ Any person who reads and understands the importance of the ‘Catechism’ will never again refer to communism as merely another political movement. It is vastly more than politics. “
The creation of a “New Soviet Man “ ( or Homo Africanus ? )
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/cooray/westdem/chap13.htm
Excerpt :
Communism and Democratic Socialism
And the creation of a “New Man” by Doctor Mark Cooray
Communism and democratic socialism or interventionist welfarism (which has been the dominant force in law and government in the western world for the last few decades) in different ways attempt to create a “new man” through the establishment of a legal system based on equality, fairness and social justice.
The essential danger and destructiveness of the communist state in the 20th century is that it has not been satisfied only with controlling the political and economic affairs of society. In its totalitarian form, the communist state extends its domination into the personal and cultural being of man. It swallows up the individual and attempts to create and mould in its place a creature completely in the image of the ideology of the State.
How is this done? A brilliant case study is now to be found in Mikhail Heller’s Cogs in the Wheel. The Formation of Soviet Man.
Lenin and the Bolsheviks seized power in 1917, not merely to nationalise the means of production and direct the economy through central planning. Their goal was wider than that: the creation of a New Soviet Man, freed from the bourgeois prejudices of the past.
The “New Man” was to be altruist in spirit, communal in outlook, sacrificial in his labour for the common good, boundless in his fight for world revolution.
Gwebecimele & Maggs, the question was whether transformation would indeed make people more comfortable – what does he mean in regards culture?
I simply do not understand transformation and culture. How will he feel when this country is transformed and what will a transformed country look like? What is 100% transformation?
I am sceptical, sorry the question was posed in a sarcastic manner. The point is, when a country is completely transformed then surely it must look completely different?
Hitler transformed Germany.
Stalin transformed Russia.
Mao transformed China.
Pol Pot transformed Cambodia.
The great Mwalimu transformed Tanzania.
Mugabe transformed Zim.
Idi Amin transformed Uganda.
Papa Doc transformed Haiti.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
@ Maggs,
Looks like my money might be safe, after all!!!
Cat got your tongues? Critical faculties taking another long weekend? Sucking up BS to be PC?
When Thomas says: “South African in the past 16 years has increased its black middle class from close to non existent to above 20% of the working class. The figure was sitting above 9.3 million in 2007. 52% of black people earning R8, 000 or more per month are employed by the state or a state owned enterprise.”
Do you forget that building that black middle class was the preoccupation of PW Botha as well? (And the obsession of ‘the more’ civil society, all the NGOs, big business who realised the importance of social responsibility) Only, the state was already over-governed then and the small tax base could not bear it. From almost ‘non-existent’ indeed!
“Three-quarters of all South African families now live in a “formal” home (usually a concrete or brick bungalow instead of a rough shack or thatched mud hut), up from just under two-thirds in 1996.”
Just under 2/3 in 1994? Well, hell, increasing the rate at which black South Africans live in formal housing from 2/3 to 3/4 in 16 years after 1/3 of the budget from the military to ‘delivery’ is one moerofan achievement on the part of the ANC, now isn’t it?
“The vast majority now have electricity and access to clean piped water. Half of black families have flushing loos, compared with barely a third in 1996; three-quarters have a television; and eight in ten have access to a phone, usually a mobile. Many municipalities provide a basic amount of water, electricity and sanitation free to poor families.”
‘Clean piped water’ indeed! Water filled with a toxic cocktail to kill the sewage contamination. Anyone seen Hartebeestpoort dam lately? You can smell the dam from miles away. Imagine the thoughts of someone jibing on that! LOL! Begging the Lord not to let you capsize! (Oops, I forget! All the whiteys who used to sail on Emmarentia dam every Sunday morning are now refugees from the country of their birth…) The ANC doing nothing about corrosive minewater boiling to the surface except letting cadres off the street steal mineral rights from experienced miners to go into business for ‘them’selves. Our mines are shut down for weeks on end and everyone has an inverter and a generator because of the greedy Escom deployees and because the ANC did not understand that powerstations need maintenance and regular predictable coal-supplies! Pay-as-you-go and the Lotto are an additional tax on the poor with the highest cell rates in the world imposed by instant-billionaire ANC cronies. The SABC is bankrupt, from a world class state broadcaster to a hotbed of waste, incompetence, mismanagement, corruption and infighting amongst ANC factions. Most of the country’s municipalities (All ANC controlled ones) are bankrupt, from world class city management for those who paid for it under the Nats to hotbeds of waste, incompetence, mismanagement, corruption and infighting amongst ANC factions (up to and including murder, to get snouts into the trough).
Bwahahaha, Thomas! Good one.
Kruger says:
August 13, 2010 at 7:25 am
Hey Kruger,
“What is 100% transformation?”
There’s no such thing, but an interesting question nevertheless, perhaps the most relevant one posed here.
Maybe the direction will only be set if there is a third Carnegie Commission into Poverty and Development in South Africa.
Why should our Gini coefficient be possibly the worst in the world if our country per capita is the wealthiest in the world relative to our resources?
We are capable of flattening the wealth pyramid, not by making rich people poorer but by a more determined developmental state.
Mostly the drive to create a better life for all and the kinds of enquiries that need to be made gets distorted by relative trivia.
For example, there’s all kinds of hullabaloo about the kind of car that Min Nzimande drives (and there should be some dust raised about that). The real challenge to Min Nzimande should be around the substantive issues regarding teacher training. Given the importance of education, and thus teachers, what is his department doing to ensure that we prepare adequately to embrace the NDR?
We get stuck on race for example, rather than the impact of bad judgments on society as a whole.
There is a lot of noise around Zuma’s son and nephew getting freebies in mining (and there should be) but we ignore the pollution of ground water which is threatening in at most a few months from now to seriously impact on all our lives.
And so it goes.
Kinda like, as the naked Mossad Guy will imply, we miss the trees for the woods.
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 8:08 am
Hey Sam,
How so?
Boy how stupid can we be not to understand;
TRANSFORMATION =
An investment vehicle led by Duduzane Zuma, President Jacob Zuma’s 28-year-old son, will gain shares with a face value approaching R1-billion, and Gugu Mtshali, reportedly Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe’s romantic partner, will get face-value shares plus cash totalling over a third of a billion rand.
The investment company of Sandile Zungu — a member of President Zuma’s broad-based empowerment advisory counsel once tipped to be director general in the Presidency — will get shares with a face value approaching half-a-billion rand. Ditto the Gupta family, friends and benefactors to President Zuma.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-13-zuma-jnr-heading-for-first-billion
Brett Nortje says:
August 13, 2010 at 8:34 am
“Anyone seen Hartebeestpoort dam lately? You can smell the dam from miles away”
You really should not be swimming in the dam, Brett!
Thomas says:
August 12, 2010 at 12:28 pm
“The most fundamental question you have to ask Prof is: If the Nats were able to transform South Africa to benefit Afrikaners, why can’t the “Black government” do the same.”
Well posed Thomas!
Brett Nortje:
I understand that you have been indoctrinated by the print media to look at things in a negative way. Your negativity is so bad that you can’t even see good being done. Its one thing to be critical but to assume everything is collapsing is being naïve. I can give you more statistics about the good that government has done in the last 16 years, but would you believe it.
I see that you believe the Nats were the perfect party. They had world Class cities (for whites only). Could not build dwellings for the black community, struggled to produce a black middle class. The black middle class has grown considerably since “freedom” (sorry you have always been free). From 2004 to 2005 the black middle class grew by 30%. This year a large number of black middle class is affecting economical growth with car sales and house: Quote: “Changes in the South African economy were generating an emerging black middle-class have been cemented with the latest property ownership and purchasing statistics. January 2010 black South Africans accounted for 50% of the monthly home loan applications, against the 40% reflected for white South Africans, indicating the degree to which the country was creating a burgeoning middle-class moving into property ownership.
All this is negative and we need the ANC adopt Nats strategies.
“Quote” from where, Thomas?
Quoting you, the Nats built more than half the formal housing black people live in?
Yup, the way to transform the country is to build more Iigrabee Consortiums!
@ Thomas
“we need the ANC adopt Nats strategies”
Thomas is right.
The Nats were far from perfect. But we should not hesitate to emulate their good points — like achieving “Transformation.”
Remember that the liberal media also resisted the Nat’s “Transformation” efforts. Fortunately, it looks like the ANC has already picked up some of the Nat’s techniques in dealing with liberals!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 13, 2010 at 9:22 am
“Fortunately, it looks like the ANC has already picked up some of the Nat’s techniques in dealing with liberals!”
Do you think that when the ANC picked up some Nats, it was a precondition that they bring with them their handy bag of tricks/techniques?
@ Maggs,
The Public Protector’s report, while a little scathing, seems to have led the ANC to decide that Nyanda has been vindicated. Funny how people interpret things to suit their own ends.
One still must ask why, if the deal was so “squeaky clean”, Gama et al were fired?
Still, I don’t see him getting fired any time soon!!
Why isn’t Thomas ‘quoting’ infant mortality rates at me?
Life expectancy?
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 10:01 am
Hey Sam,
I posted a response – it disappeared into cyberspace somewhere.
The bet is still on.
On the matter of the PP – I reckon that the PP had to rely on what was available. If there was no evidence supporting the allegation that Nyanda was directly involved then the allegation could not have been sustained, as suspicious as the circumstances surrounding it may be.
@ Maggs,
Do you think there might have been some “classified” documentation that she could not access?
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 10:20 am
By “classified” documentation, do you mean like wads of R100 notes?
But on a more serious note, whoever brought on the matter did not prepare adequately – it seems the approach is to shake the trees and see what falls out.
As we discussed previously some people just do not pick their fights carefully.
@ Samantha
I suspect Gama was fired for exceeding his manadate, signing cotracts worth more than R10 MILLION without board approval.
It seems as if I missed a sermon here.
Can someone answer Thomas’s question.
Thomas is right.
These so-called “figures” supposedly showing inequality rising post-1994 were all invented by RACISTS to discredit the ANC.
Anyway, I don’t believe in statistics. They can be twisted to show anything you want!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 13, 2010 at 11:03 am
Hey Mossad Guy,
Do you say that there are White boat people in Emmarentia Dam every Sunday who are not refugees in the country of their birth???
Prove it!
Quote: “Historically, what has made the US economy strong has been an economy that fed and strengthened the middle class. Over the last 30 years we have seen the American economy go in the wrong direction. Instead of a growing and prosperous middle class, wealth has become concentrated in the hands of the rich, leaving middle class and working class America cash poor.”
Economical inequalities are growing everywhere in the world.
I love the fact that you don’t believe in stats because they can be twisted, just like the media can twist stories.
By the way: I see that there are service delivery protests in the Western Cape? I must say the ANC government is not delivering.
“South Africa is a water-scarce country and the largest portion of water is already authorised for irrigation. Other sectors, such as the mines, industries, municipalities, previously disadvantaged communities and the environment are also competing for this already allocated water,” Sonjica said.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article599353.ece/Farms-water-to-be-diverted-to-Eskom
And on the other hand
Acid mine water reports ‘ridiculous’
SAPA | Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:26
[miningmx.com] — Minister in the Presidency Trevor Manuel on Tuesday warned MPs there were “private sector interests” driving debate on the environmental threat to Johannesburg posed by rising acid mine water.
“What we need is a rational discussion… informed by an empirical basis, because the idea that there will be acid mine drainage running through the streets of Johannesburg next week, and that we should all walk around in gum boots, is completely ridiculous.”"The central basin upon which Johannesburg sits is filling up with acid mine drainage at the rate of one metre a day, and unless a decision is taken within the next few weeks, we will not have the time to put in place the engineering solution to deal with the impending catastrophe.”
http://www.miningmx.com/news/markets/Acid-mine-water-reports-%27ridiculous%27.htm
Samantha says:
August 12, 2010 at 9:48 am
“In my opinion, the problem with the whole idea of transformation is that the focus is on transforming that which already exists, without creating “new” transformation vehicles.
There are only so many jobs that currently exist. By reshuffling and putting Blacks into jobs held by Whites, you are only addressing a small part of the economic sector.”
This the fundamental problem of many in our society who reduce the whole concept of transformation to EE,Jobs shuffling etc hence I threw into the mix the issue of culture (79% majority that is cultural minority).
I have no doubt that we can ask the same question and simply replace “Transformation” by “Media Freedom”.
To many, Media Freedom = “Absence of the “undefined Media Tribunal”
What if the ANC abandon the “Media Tribunal” or withdraw the Protection Information Bill or both, will everything be ok.
Sometimes we just hyperventilate on issues that we hardly understand rather than wait for details and debate issues on merits.
Gwebecimele says:
August 13, 2010 at 12:00 pm
On both issues, i.e. transformation and media freedom, it seems to point back to the ANC.
Surely transformation has top mean more than simply getting the EE levels more demographically balanced. I would think that the need to do that is based on a determined effort to correcting the structural and systemic inadequacies inherent in our society. Simply getting more Black faces positioned is not enough – we do need to consider the impact on the basics if adequate ground is not covered (I say it is not) then the hard questions have to be asked.
The issues informing the media debate lies squarely in the lap of the ANC. The brown envelope sagas has involved mainly ANC people at one end. The negative press is a consequence of actions of high profile ANC people. If positive press is not coming out then someone needs to fire the useless PR staff at the very least and revisit the issues that feed the negative reports.
None of this is new or novel – it’s been under discussion in the ANC and the alliance partners for at least a decade now with no solutions or accountability.
The figures that Thomas posted earlier is worrying – somebody needs to be challenged and somebody needs to explain.
Maggs, PR is not the problem; neither is it the solution.
The ANC is the predominant party in the RSA. That alone explains the fact that there is more reporting on the corruption, incompetency and faults of this party than any other.
Their trying to stifle such reports reflects either (a) a fundamental failure to grasp group dynamics (quite a failure on the part of a political party), or (b) malice toward the principles of our Constitution.
I’m willing to err on the side of ignorance/stupidity.
Transformation, i.e. wider black, female, poor and minority participation in creating value in the RSA, will occur only when people are educated AND disciplined. Education and discipline is enforced and encouraged both by the self and by others. There must be a willingness on everyone’s part to play their part, and I believe that Pierre points out that this last factor is, ultimately, missing.
The Afrikaners exploited black labour and only had to provide fort a small minority. The “transformation” was also only economic – the values of patriarchy and traditional conservative life were further entrenched by the Afrikaner rule. When I talk about transformation I think about both economic and social and cultural change. I udnerstand that this is not always easy, but I do get impatient when the rhetoric is so far removed from the actual practice.
I agree, Pierre. That’s why I used the word “value”. Transformation should encompass more that just economic-, or cultural-, or intellectual value… If one contributes to protecting, diversifying or improving this country, in whatever form, one is adding value to it.
What do you guys think the prospects are for reviving the actio popularis?
What is also puzzling is the absence of a challenge to the false “Equal Opoortunity Society” of the DA and that to me warrants more coverage than many of the stories that occupy our front pages.
Gwebe, does the DA support affirmative action?
transformation = zimbabwefication
Maggs, I recall the study you mention about SA’s mineral resources.
I do not think we should place too much reliance on that, though.
In fact, some economists suggest that oil, for example, can be a developmental disadvantage, rather than a boon. (The “curse of oil.”)
You mentioned Japan yesterday; arguably, it was precisley the absence of natural resources that stimulated the Japanese to great feats of productivity.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 13:39 pm
Gwebe, does the DA support affirmative action?
____________________________________________________________
Does it?
Brett, there’s no need for the actio popularis. We now need only to show “sufficient interest” in a matter to be able to bring it before court.
rhett says:
August 13, 2010 at 12:50 pm
“PR is not the problem; neither is it the solution.”
There is a lot of good being done as there is a lot of goodwill.
It would be great to hear of success stories and centres of excellence.
It cannot be that our country is performing, in broad terms, as well as it is with no positives.
In any event the expression “success breeds success” has meaning.
@ Michael Osborne
“Does the DA support affirmative action?”
Speaking only for Maggs and myself, we have no interest in the DA’s policies or programs.
Thank you very much.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 13:45 pm
Nigeria, Angola are examples to support that view.
However those are not examples that we should be reflecting on – we could just as well talk about the success of the Kingdom of Bahrain for example.
Post war Japan had several advantages that we don’t.
The thing for me is that unless we build on our strengths we will end up like Nigeria with some among us getting rich and the rest of the population being sold for the 40 pieces of silver.
While I think it’s good that Zuma’s son gets mega rich, it’s rotten that workers are not paid, looters are brutally killed and ground water gets polluted – it’s hardly the transformation we expect.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:08 pm
Hey naked Mossad Guy,
Speak only for me and not for yourself!
@ Michael
No they do not.
‘Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.’
–Groucho Marx
Maggs, sorry, I was a presumptious in claiming to speak for you.
I am curious though: On a scale of one to ten, how DO you rate your interest in the DA’s policies and programs?
From a DA policy:
“Empowering more people to get involved in our economy will lead to higher incomes, higher investments, higher savings and higher tax revenues. This in turn will provide us with more resources to make sure that those left remaining on the sidelines of our community are assisted with every possible opportunity to take charge of their own lives, and provide for South Africa’s future economic prosperity.”
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:27 pm
Mynard,
You speak correctly for me and I appreciate that.
It’s yourself that is dubious.
p.s. On 1 – 10, I rate it er, darn it’s hard to compute!
Gwebe, what is the source of you information that the DA does not support AA? I found the following on the DA site:
“The DA’s position on affirmative action is that it is a necessary policy intervention, but that the particular form it has taken under the ANC is flawed.”
[http://www.da.org.za/documents.htm?action=view-document&document=584]
Are these liberal/racist bastards lying, again?
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:33 pm
That’s a kak policy that says nothing.
Pointing out that the ANC may be wrong as a policy is just dof!
Rhett, the problem is that the ConCourt is so shy about awarding constitutional damages!
Maggs, you are so much more sensible when Dworky speaks for you!
Maggs, you can’t have it both ways.
I think you did say a while back that you had “no interest” in the DA’s policies. Having said that, it is not really open to you to come and debate whether or not the DA’s stated policy, to use your elegant word, “kak.”
Michael, the absence of natural resources stimulated the Japanese to great feats of productivity, and in turn made them eager participants in a World War to acquire the territory that contained the raw minerals that fuelled that productive capacity.
Much the position China is in now.
Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:35 pm
Yes, Maggs, now that we have your cerebral response give us your emotional one!
@ Michael
My understanding of that statement is that they do not support it in its current form and they have a different prefered version of AA which I suspect is nothing but hogwash. Their actions and utterances are very clear in this regard.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:42 pm
Hey Michael,
Doublespeak is freedom of speech – check the fine print in our Bill of Rights.
Ok – I try to rephrase.
That’s a kak non policy that says nothing.
oops – no it did not work out
That’s a non-policy that says nothing!
Brett Nortje says:
August 13, 2010 at 14:52 pm
Hey Brett – careful what you wish for, Michael is about!
OK, Gwebecimele, can you cite other instances where the fiberals’ words are at odds with their actions?
(I can give you some examples – if you like – of what would qualify as ‘words that are at odds with actions’, but they do rather often feature the ANC….)
@ Brett
When are you going to learn that the “you too” approach does not assist the debate? I doubt if the DA wants to match the ANC on all its shortcomings.
You have been in this blog long enough to know that I do criticise the ANC and its leaders when they faulter.
@ Maggs
I must differ again with you. No-one can argue with you as to whether the DA has a policy or a “non-policy,” if you start with the premise that you have “no interest” in the DA’s policy, one way or another. You have admitted, in effect, that your mind is closed on the issue. (“Finis and klaar,” as the Commissioner might say.)
@ Gwebe
Based on the DA’s documents, it seems that the form of AA that it proposes would be based on “need” or “class” or “deprivation” rather than on race. Now you may or not agree with the approach, but it is hardly crazy, or as Maggs says, a “non-policy.” Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander have, if I recall correctly, advanced a similar concept.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 15:33 pm
“I must differ again with you. No-one can argue with you as to whether the DA has a policy or a ‘non-policy,’”.
I see you learned the doublespeak thing too!
p.s. The commissioner also ate bread for supper, sold the Scorpions to the highest bidder, and is truly finished and klaar.
Gwebecimele, the problem is that your use of the word ‘too’ suggests some kind of reciprocity.
IMHO you would be hard put to come up with many instances where the DA’s leaders were deliberately disingenuous much less deliberately mendacious.
You could hardly say that for many among the ANC. Character does count.
@ Michael
AA is an elitist approach and it mainly applies in the workplace and cannot be driven by class or needs. Our oppresion was achieved via race profiling and can only be corrected as such. The needs or class approach would work if we only intend to empower those at the bottom via grants, RDP house, Public Works Programmes etc. which is exactly what the DA wants and avoid reshuffling the elite rewards.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 15:33 pm
Hey Michael,
“Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander have, if I recall correctly, advanced a similar concept.”
Are their suggestions in line with the constitution?
@ Brett
Did u miss PdV’s article, “Do as we say not as we do”.
@ Gwebe
Perhaps our debate is merely semantic.
Posit two remaining candidates for a scholarship. One has7 matric A’s, and comes from a very rich family. The other candidate has 5 matric A’s and comes from a very poor family.
Are you saying that, if the scholarship goes to the poorer candidate, that is NOT an instance of affirmative action? What else would you call it?
@ Maggs
“Are their suggestions in line with the Constitution?”
Yes, I would think so.
Do you think otherwise?
Hey Michael,
9 Equality
(2) Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To
promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.
If “need” or “class” or “deprivation” can be adequately described as disadvantaged by unfair discrimination then that should be included in the AA policies.
I suspect though that any portion of the AA policy that is not consistent with our constitution would have been challenged all the way to the CC.
@ Maggs
Yes, Maggs, you will have noticed that s. 9(2) is not phrased in the imperative (“must”), but in the permissive (“may”), form. It follows that AA on the basis of race or class are both constitutionally permissible, but neither is mandatory. It is thus left to the discretion of the legislature whether to have AA at all, and, if so, in what form it should be implemented.
(Incidentally, Obama suggested at some point that AA on a class basis might be better than AA on a race basis.)
But in practical terms, it makes little immediate difference in SA right now whether one stipulates class or race as the basis for AA, given that the lower (economic) class is overwhelmingly black. Ironically, therefore, if we take the DA at its word, the result of implementing its approach may actually differ little from the ANC’s approach.
Prof. de Vos,
Were you referring to me in your comment:
The Afrikaners exploited black labour and only had to provide fort a small minority.
Again, aspects of that are true, but it almost sounds as if you are naive enough to expect a planet where exploitation of labour does not occur. Yes the educated do exploit the ignorants labour, but ignorants also allow therefore when they prefer to remain ignorant and to be exploited than to join a culture that does not exploit labour.
I ask again: ARe you saying that black elite all over africa, do not exploit black labour, and keep the proceeds of that exploitation for their little black elite?
In a comparison between who exploited more or less, do the black elite of africa exploit blacks more or less than the Afrikaners exploited blacks?
Under which black african countries did poor blacks develop socio-economically (i.e. were they less exploited and able to lift themselves out of poverty, if they didn’t choose to breed like rabbits, or to remain ignorant) to a greater extent, under black African leadership, or White Afrikaner governance?
Are you just so young you don’t remember, or are you deliberately in denial, or you just trying to prove your ‘I am blacker than any coconut black’ credentials?
“Since 1970 the budget for black education was raised by about 30% per year every year. More than any other government department. In the period 1955 -1984 the amount of black school students increased 31 times from 35,000 to 1,096 000. 65% of black South African children were at school compared to Egypt 64%, Nigeria 57%, Ghana52%, Tanzania50% and Ethiopia 29%. Amongst the adults of South Africa, 71% could read and write (80%
between the ages 12 and 22). Compare this to Kenya 47%, Egypt 38%, Nigeria 34% and Mozambique at 26%. In South Africa, the whites built
15 new classrooms for blacks every working day, every year. At 40 children per class it meant space for an additional 600 black students
every day!!!” (Opening Pandora’s Apartheid Box – Part 11– Bantu Education under Apartheid, by Mike Smith)
**
The “transformation” was also only economic – the values of patriarchy and traditional conservative life were further entrenched by the Afrikaner rule.
Well it would help if you clarify what you personally mean by patriarchy and traditional conservative life, cause being abstract concepts what you mean and I mean may be totally different things.
Example: As a white woman, I have no objection to, and in fact very much appreciate traditional conservative values of a white man who will stand up and object to me being beaten or harrassed as a woman.
Compare for example, the many liberal white men’s preferential treatment of white women, i.e. pornography is not a conservative value, but something that white liberal men want and value:
One of the main reasons why interracial porn is so popular with white men, which is the main consumer base, is if pornography is about the dehumanization of women, what better way to dehumanize a white woman in the eyes of white men than to see her being penetrated over and over by something they view as depraved, the black male body?
She continues about where liberal la la progressive land is taking society, with this pornography under the rubrick of ‘freedom of speech’… i.e. which conservative societies banned as repulsive and a desctrution of relationships and sexual values..
Where is this going to end? I don’t know. What will an 11-year-old boy want 10, 20, or 30 years from now? Nobody knows. The truth is we’ve never brought up a generation of males with hardcore pornography. No one can really say what’s going to happen. What we do know, from how images and media affect people, is that it’s going to increasingly shape the way men think about sex, sexuality, and relationships.
Do you know Prof. de Vos, that ETV pornography is broadcast to prisoners around the country, who sit in prison with FREE ETV PORNOGRAPHY!
When is theire going to be a lightbulb that goes on in the South African elites brains, to know and understand why gang rapists force their victims, family members to watch???
So, yes this is one of the ‘social cultural changes transformation’ has brought us, to rid us of conservative patriarchy!
If I am bound to be oppressed as a woman, because I live on a planet populated by a majority of psychologically and sexually insecure males (thanks to the fact that most of them were born to mothers who are absolutely clueless about raising children with healthy psyche’s and sense of self)….
then pardon me for thinking living in a family where my fahter is strict and demands anyone who wants to take me to dinner or a party must come and introduce himself and if he so much as touches me wrong, my father will make sure he ends up in intensive care…
or one where I am forced to be raped by savages who consider themselve porn stars, while my family are forced to watch….
Guess which option I am going to choose from Prof. De Vos!
I don’t know what you mean by rhetoric divorced from practice, rhetoric about what. Give examples, if it was a response to me. I cannot read your mind or know what you are talking about unless if you give clear examples, and feedback.
Also, when you get time, I’d appreciate your definition for ‘racism’,or ‘racist’.
Sorry I forgot the link to the article about the effects of pornography. Here it is:
Gail Dines: How “Pornland” destroys intimacy and hijacks sexuality
http://www.xyonline.net/content/gail-dines-how-“pornland”-destroys-intimacy-and-hijacks-sexuality
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 16:29 pm
Hey Michael,
“But in practical terms, it makes little immediate difference in SA right now whether one stipulates class or race as the basis for AA, given that the lower (economic) class is overwhelmingly black. Ironically, therefore, if we take the DA at its word, the result of implementing its approach may actually differ little from the ANC’s approach.”
I think that equating poor with disadvantaged may struggle to find an audience at the CC – I reckon that there is little doubt about what the drafters of the constitution meant by “disadvantaged”.
Even David King claims (or claimed) poverty – if I recall correctly he said that his mother takes care of him.
Re “what form it should be implemented” – I doubt that the legislature will be allowed to get away with arbitrarily deciding the form of AA especially if that form includes interpretation that is inconsistent with the letter and the spirit of our constitution – either by excluding deserving categories or adding non-deserving ones.
Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander may well have a case to be made for amending the constitution but I suspect that the views that they expressed is somewhat off the mark.
@ Michael
Empowering or sponsoring a poor family is AA.
IF we are to have a scorecard race, nationality will be at the top and (needs,class) at the lower end.
What is at stake here is the sharing of the elite rewards, DA wants status quo to remain at that level, if there is any change it will be at the bottom.
You and I have been through this before.
See postings below.
Gwebecimele says:
March 10, 2010 at 15:11 pm
@ Michael
Debating AA with Brett will be more difficult than disarming him. Anyway I dragged the debate longer so that I can test how strong are his views on the subject. I am under no illusion that I can convince him to see things differently.
I can’t remember claiming that AA/Baby is well implemented without fault, infact the opposite is true. I have been very consistent in highlighting the shortcomings of BEE and AA and the missed opportunities of the last 20 yrs.
Here is my opinion. Targeted AA in Education is a good long term strategy but that will only deliver 10 to 15 yrs from now, anyway it targets young people.
Enterprenurial opportunities must be created now by providing well managed tenders for mainly blacks. Land distribution and agricultural support should have been more than 50% achieved by now. EE, AA and procurement must be implemented immediately with recognisable penalties for those who are sabotaging the process. Decent houses( not RDP), INFRASTRUCTURE Projects ( NOT World Cup, Gautrain, Arms deal, PBMR) should have been used to create employment and provide skills training.
I guess you are comfortable enough to wait for spin offs from education and you do not want to cause harm which I find to be cowardice. 16 yrs into this democracy, most people have very little to show unlike the few of us who managed to get tenders and special appointments. Yours is an elitist view of what needs to happen in this country and you equate ours to views of racist bigots who are beyond redemption. What is this middle ground (baby+ water) you are talking about ?
Gwebecimele says:
March 10, 2010 at 15:25 pm
@ Michael
AA is intended to support professionals/employees who are educated , capable and have potential to bring them on the same level as their white counterparts who are supported by networks, institutions, culture, religion communities etc. Who amongst this group do you want to target and who should be left out?
How does AA condemn the next generation to inferior schooling? Perhaps you have fallen for the trick that AA means lowering of standards.
Michael Osborne says:
March 10, 2010 at 15:36 pm
Gwebe, I agree with almost everything you mention. But I do not class housing, land redistribution, etc. as AA. I call that poverty relief. And for most people, that is much more important than AA, which, like BEE is very much a middle class concern.
As for the middle ground (baby + bathwater), I could you refer you the work of Ramphele and Mbeki (junior.) That means: an overwhelming emphasis on education – by which I mean adult training, as well as schooling. It means banning tokenism and fronting. Also, intensive mentoring. And also, as Ramphele warns,not undermining education and service deliver by pushing people into jobs for which they are not ready. (On that note, how exactly is “not wanting to cause harm” a form of cowardice?
Gwebecimele says:
March 10, 2010 at 16:08 pm
@ Michael
My understanding of Poverty relief means initiatives that target people who have fallen below poverty line and the intention is to give them relief ( short term) rather than an opportunity to prosperity and higher quality of life. Social grants and an RDP house will do just that, give you shelter and enough to survive. This may assist about 10 million poor individuals in SA.
What I am refering to, are programs that create unlimited opportunities for our people to become farmers, enterpreneurs, managers, decision makers and participate in the knowledge economy. Let us maximise opportunities for black people to move into the middle class in numbers rather than creating a nanny state. Education is one way of doing it but it is a long term and anyway this will not do much at the level of adult education. I have listened and read Mbeki & Ramphele and I support their views on long term basis. What do we do now on AA, EE, Procurement etc? Why are blacks doing all the hard work in construction, farming,mining etc but are not the owners of those industries? We can commit 50% of govt spending to black firms (truly black not fronting) and that will create enough opportunities for our people until our economy reflects the demographics of the country. You can also set targets for AA, EE, tV & rADIO content etc. We are in charge and we make all the laws and we stop blaming apartheid for the things we can change. There is a lot we can do now.
@ Maggs
“I doubt that the legislature will be allowed to get away with arbitrarily deciding the form of AA ”
Maggs, I think you missed what I noted about s 9(2). It does not mandate AA in any form at all. All it does is pre-empt an argument that any AA that does happen to be legislated violates s. 9(1).
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 17:11 pm
It’s certainly not mandatory but we do now have laws.
I’m more curious as to why you think that the suggestions of Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander is consistent with our constitution.
Great article, there is no doubt that under the ANC government the poor and middle class are withering away whilst the political, economic and spiritual elitists are whizzing ahead to the detriment of the greater “underclass”.
We hear hitler-like calls on transformation; “transform sports… transform farmers… transform media…” yet these are calls to for cadre deployment, for the death of separation of party and State.
Transforming the justice system to place ANC comrades is another attempt to dismantle the State so the party (ANC) can get away with murder.
What are the solutions, since the ANC believes in its hubris tones that it will rule until the 2nd coming of the Savior ?
The “proposed” Information Protection Bill and “proposed” MAT combined with the take over of the SABC by the Minister of Communications shows where this Republic is headed. The re-Militarization of Police (which has seen countless innocents being shot at and killed) combined with the disarming of Citizens whilst criminals have a never ending flow of arms (many of which come from police stations) shows a bleak picture for the Republic.
Will the situation get better in the run up to the 2014 national election ? Will the ANC do everything in its power including using State monies for its campaigning to try and hoodwink Citizens in voting for it… you can bet your life they will and are doing this.
20 years from now if the ANC has its way, we will be a one party State, the elitists will be the main winners and we “underclass” Citizens will have to watch our every move or face being whisked away in the middle of the night.
Be careful Pierre de Vos they know where you live.
Prof, now you’re being Counter-Revolutionary!
Sorry, thats Anti-Counter-Revolutionary
I’m sorry that I am so late in joining this debate, but was away all day.
In response to some of the discussion around the DA’s policies, I would like to add the following:
Gwebecimele and I are on the same page (I think) with regard to the fact that AA/BEE should not just be about window-dressing and about “transformation” of only existing jobs. It should be about allowing for opportunity for people to grow and emerge in this country.
When the DA took over the City of Cape Town, only 40% of their procurement partners were HDI’s and SMME’s. Part of this was as a result of the ADDITIONAL stringent requirements that the ANC had implemented in their procurement policy that would ensure cronyism and tenders-for-pals. These additional requirements were way beyond what was required in terms of procurement policy and had a detrimental effect on “transformation” and the emergence of preferential partners.
The DA-led government thus relaxed these stringent requirements and within 3 years have increased their HDI and SMME suppliers to 62%
In addition, they have expanded the number of vendors from which they procure from 10 000 in 2007 to 15 000 this year.
This has been done through the vision of an Open Opportunity Society for All which is a society in which people are free, government is transparent and every citizen is afforded equal access to opportunities to pursue their lives and develop their abilities as they choose.
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 18:14 pm
Hey Sam,
Meanwhile back at the ranch :
A Pretoria businessman, who is a known ANC and ANCYL funder in the region but asked not to be named, admitted this week that business people poured money into political leadership campaigns in order to secure contracts in the future.
The businessman, who is backing Kupa, said the business community had contributed “a lot of cash” to the recent Tshwane ANC leadership campaign and that businesses were now taking sides in the ANCYL’s Gauteng leadership tussle.
“You take money from your business if it comes to a push,” he said. “It depends on how you run your business — if you are a professional, you do it in a way that you will be able to account for it.”
The businessman said that the interest in the ANCYL leadership race lay in the belief that backing the winning faction, currently seen as the Malema/Kupa group, would get businessmen “in their good books” for the ANC’s succession battle, to be decided at its 2012 conference.
“It will ultimately set you up for bigger tenders once the 2012 battle is won,” he said.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-13-money-can-buy-malema-love
Anyone who thinks that they were hard done by through AA can always find “creative” ways to secure tenders.
@ Maggs,
And yet the ANC want us to believe that they are all about helping the poor and are hard-working people who succeed on merit!! LOL!!!
To quote Helen Zille: The DA is about the Open Opportunity Society for All while the ANC is about the Closed Crony Society that only benefits the politically-connected few.
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 18:35 pm
“And yet the ANC want us to believe that they are all about helping the poor and are hard-working people who succeed on merit!!”
Not true.
Even the NGC in November is likely to deal with corruption, cronyism, criminality that has nested neatly in the rank and file of ANC structures.
Whether there is the determination, even the capacity, to deal with this is another matter entirely.
Until the real activists stand up, I suspect that this will be no more than the creation of the platform to get rid of political opponents rather than a thorough clean up.
But I am still on with our wager
Whaddya mean: ‘deal’?
Actively pursue “corruption, cronyism, criminality that has nested neatly in the rank and file of ANC structures”? Try hard to get a piece of the action?
Can you site any instances of disciplinary measures taken against any ANC members for corruption, cronyism, criminality? We know the ANC sure as hell does not take disciplinary measures against its members engaging in hate speech….
Are disciplinary steps confined to ANC members who disrespect the elephant guy?
@ Maggs
“I’m more curious as to why you think that the suggestions of Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander is consistent with our constitution.”
Do you mean the proposal that AA be implemented on the basis of “class?”
If so, please let me know why you think that would not be constitutional. Surely person of lower class can fairly be said to have been “disadvantaged by unfair discrimination,” within the meaning of s. 9(2)?
Well this one I have to respond to:
“The DA’s position on affirmative action is that it is a necessary policy intervention, but that the particular form it has taken under the ANC is flawed.”
Considering that ‘affirmative action’ should effectively produce equal opportunity for all, no one left on the sidelines etc etc, are there responders on this site who actually believe ‘affirmative action and the BEE’s,’ are not flawed?
Please, speak to the folk in the townships that I know. No affirmative action apart from gov’t employees. And for the poor, youth, elderly, ill… zilch.
I’m actually surprised that some of our posters can’t get past their loyalties and mind sets to see clearly. Its called just and indepth analysis, setting one’s prejudices and preconceived beliefs aside in order to enable such analysis.
Just how has affirmative action, if not flawed, advanced the majority of the people?
White Refugee says:
August 13, 2010 at 16:40 pm
I enjoyed your post. You appear to me not so much as being conservative, but rather… rational, as in a dictionary definition: ‘having or exercising the ability to reason. Of sound mind; sane. Consistent with or based on reason.’
Here’s a thought by Friedrich Nietzsche: says it all.
“No victor believes in chance..”
“chance” should have been change, but ironically they both work.
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 20:03 pm
Hey Michael,
I think the case would have to be made by those who argue that class falls within the meaning of s 9.2.
South Africans of Chinese origin successfully made a case.
Those who argue that class (I assume by class we’re referring to people who are poor) is a basis of unfair discrimination would be expected to make their case.
Of course it would have to consider, among other things, the reasons why people are poor – would for example, wayward lawyers struck off the roll, be able to claim discrimination under s 9.2?
Or ex prisoners?
What about lazy, poor people?
People fired from employment for whatever reason?
Drug addicts?
Politicians no longer in favour of their political parties?
Unless there are convincing arguments to the contrary, I reckon that race, gender, people living with disabilities are about it.
@ Maggs,
First off, as usual, the ANC do a lot of talking, but very little action is taken unless people are not part of the clique. Then, they are thrown to the dogs – just ask Masogo, Selebi etc.
I can look in the mirror and see that I am overweight, but unless I diet, nothing will change. Zuma keeps talking about 2010 being the year of action. They’ve got a little over 4 months left.
As to your last post, I just want to clarify that the Constitution talks of “unfair” discrimination and not just discrimination. Therefore, the examples you provide don’t necessarily comply with that definition.
In addition, the examples you have used are people who have actually contributed to their situation. These are not people who by virtue of their birth are poor. So, they are, to some extent to blame and cannot on that basis claim that they are being unfairly discriminated against.
@ Maggs
“Unless there are convincing arguments to the contrary, I reckon that race, gender, people living with disabilities are about it.”
Maggs, take a look at s. 9(3). I think it requires expansion of your rather abbreviated list:
“The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.”
You will note this a non-exclusive list. There is a lot of academic commentary on whether economic class is a constitutional axis of discrimination. Will give you references if you are interested.
Maggs Naidu, how much corruption has occurred through “transformation” ? How many posts lay vacant because of this “transformation” When you get down to it, BEE has INCREASE the degrading of the system.
The ANC in its marxist attitude of deploying cadres to nearly every sector of society in order to control society have caused untold suffering to Citizens and the Republic.
As for “lazy” “poor” people… What do you cause the inability to deal with the water or energy crisis ? What do you call the the looting of State funds by the ANC ?
Ask yourself if this current “transformation” is allowed to stay the course what Republic will be living in ?
*cause = call
Talking about ” cultural transformation , what lawyers should be discussing is the vexed issue of legislating from the ” bench ” .
It is the common practice in certain liberal democratic countries these days for judicial activists to effect cultural change through the undemocratic decisions of Supreme Court ( or Constitutional Court ) Judges .
The following essay explains :
http://www.newcriterion.com/articleprint.cfm/Adversary-jurisprudence-1962
Michael Osborne says:
August 13, 2010 at 22:25 pm
Hey Michael,
Two important but distinct areas are being conflated as I see it.
The s. 9.2, as I interpret it, was drafted in a way as to approach resolving the structural and systemic inequality and iniquity created by apartheid era policies. It’s unlikely to make a convincing case that the drafters of the constitution meant anything other than that.
I would love to read any convincing references that suggest otherwise, especially any reading that supports the contention that the suggestions of Mbeki Jnr, Ramphele and Neville Alexander are consistent with our constitution.
Samantha says:
August 13, 2010 at 21:35 pm
Hey Sam,
Sorry to hear that you’re fat.
Nevermind, as Nimrod will say, God still loves you.
Eric says:
August 13, 2010 at 22:49 pm
“Maggs Naidu, how much corruption has occurred through “transformation” ?”
Nothing.
Zero.
Zilch.
In the context of this essay of Professor de Vos , South Africa’s constitutional lawyers should be discussing the “liberal transformation” of the judiciary in America ( and South Africa ) .
Robert H. Borks following essay “Olympians on the march: the courts & the culture wars ” is very relevant to SA’s present situation , in my opinion
http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Olympians-on-the-march–the-courts—the-culture-wars-1502
Repost for full essay : See
Nimrod says:
August 14, 2010 at 7:33 am
Adversary Juirisprudence
http://www.newcriterion.com/articles.cfm/Adversary-jurisprudence-1962
Maggs, then you and Sam have something in common!
Fathead!
Brett Nortje says:
August 14, 2010 at 15:27 pm
Hey Brett,
Why do you call Sam a fathead especially considering that she is always kind and graceful (even in defeat)????
@ Michael,
Refer to :
“As the Constitutional Court found in the case of Minister of Finance v Van Heerden, for an affirmative action plan to be valid there had to be a plan (not random preferential treatment) in which the overwhelming majority of the group targeted for advancement had to consists of individuals who belonged to a group who had suffered from past unfair discrimination.“
http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/on-the-limits-of-affirmative-action/
@ Samantha
I can assure you with almost complete certainty that President Zuma will imminently take concrete action to present a detailed and guaranteed plan to commence a foolproof program to eliminate all forms of corruption by 2014.
Watch this space!
A person doesn’t visit the site for a day and all manner of abuse gets thrown around!!
@ Maggs,
I’m glad God loves me – unlike others on this site!!!
@ Brett,
I’m not sure what you are referring to re Maggs and I having something in common, but I hope that your “Fathead” comment referred only to Maggs.
@ Maggs,
Thanks for the backhanded compliment! Although, I must have missed that one time that I was defeated. I’m a woman. I’m never wrong. So, I obviously just wasn’t around to get the last word in. And don’t you know anything said after a woman has had the last word is actually the start of a new argument?
@ Mikhail,
I am sure that you are 100% correct in your post. Just what we need – another plan, another debate, another programme. I can’t wait to see the acronym for this one!! I think the acronym will stem from the following:
Fix Up Corruption, Kick Imperialist Tendencies
I was very definitely referring to Maggs! His ‘confusion’ is merely further proof of my point.
@Mikhail –
So-o … Zuma will present “a detailed and guaranteed plan to commence a foolproof (!) program to eliminate all forms of corruption by 2014″? Pah! That’s just ANC weasel-speak for “purging all their political opponents by 2014″. You watch this space …
Samantha says:
August 14, 2010 at 17:48 pm
Hey Sam,
There’s no doubt that the backtracker called you a fathead – he’s just a lowly, sexist weasel – August 14, 2010 at 15:27 pm.
Even Michael will not be able to spin that one.
Smack him!
Re defeat – there’s no doubt that you will not be defeated. But just in case the impossible happens, I am confident that you will accept it will all grace, like a true champion that you are.
Maggs’ ham-handed cyberstalking is a timely reminder that the state – having so obviously, demonstrably failed in its duty to keep South African women safe – ought to subsidise women who cannot afford a handgun and, at the very least, fasttrack their license applications.
2-5 years ought to be what a stalker gets, not how long a threatened woman waits for a gun-license application!
Brett Nortje says:
August 14, 2010 at 20:21 pm
Hey weasel,
You should apologise to Sam for the uncalled for offence.
And your mother is looking for you – she want to feed the dogs. No not the dogs, they have limits as to what they will eat. It’s the crocodiles that need to be fed.
@ Maggs
“And your mother is looking for you – she want to feed the dogs”
I know this blog is mainly about the SA Constitution and politics pertaining thereto. So Maggs, what is your theme here? I seem to have missed what I assume is a very clever metaphor or allusion.
Michael Osborne says:
August 15, 2010 at 9:11 am
Hey Michael,
“I know this blog is mainly about the SA Constitution and politics pertaining thereto.”
That, including the very clever metaphors or allusions, are for the super smart.
For the likes of me, it’s the cyber equivalent of street fighting which means that I set my terms and rules of engagement.
Feel free to campaign for entry requirements – maybe Pierre will revise “It deals with social and political aspects of South African society – mostly from a constitutional perspective”.
p.s. I assume that you’re ok with the very unsavoury comments about the ANC and or our leaders (especially since I have not heard a squeak about that) but really get aggrieved when the likes of “the little one” gets rubbed the wrong way.
@ Samantha
Tim Harris of DA has just conceded on judge for yourself that he does not know of any successful democratic state that does not a vibrant organised labour.
@ Michael
Read Pallo Jordan article on Sunday Times today about DA protecting the gains of apartheid
LOL@Maggs!
Like pointing out that the godless ANC is shameless, too?
Like pointing out that it is simple logic that the ANC must control the switch, and must be the ones responsible for hitting ‘ON’ again, if for the 5 weeks off the world cup there were no farm murders?
Brett, once again you have come up with what seems to be strong evidence of GENOCIDE. Impeccable logic, deftly wielded!
Brett Nortje says:
August 15, 2010 at 19:44 pm
Hey Dullard,
Nah – it’s no issue for me. You or anyone else can write whatever you want, after all it’s votes that count.
Just pointing out the obvious, especially the laarger syndrome in sheep’s clothing.
p.s. Mother has not fed you to the crocodiles yet I see. She will.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 15, 2010 at 19:53 pm
Simple logic as he points out is about the limit for the mascot!
Dworky, the ANC stopped farm murders for 5 weeks for the duration of the world cup – in which the ANC had a lot invested.
If the ANC did not hit the ‘Off’ switch – and now again, the ‘On’ switch?
Who did?
Who could?
Er, Maggs….
‘larger’? Spelled with one ‘a’!
Except if you mean ‘lager’ as in beer? Not ‘larger’ as in ‘bigger than’. But, beer does not fit in context.
Anyway, if I were king beer would be banned along with other intoxicants.
Brett Nortje says:
August 15, 2010 at 20:31 pm
“‘larger’? Spelled with one ‘a’!”
Only in the crocodile farm!
Brett Nortje says:
August 15, 2010 at 19:44 pm
“Like pointing out that it is simple logic that the ANC must control the switch, and must be the ones responsible for hitting ‘ON’ again, if for the 5 weeks off the world cup there were no farm murders?”
I see what you mean about the ANC controlling the On switch.
Wessell van der Merwe sat calmly on a camping chair under the trees in his Houghton, Johannesburg, garden yesterday afternoon. Just metres away, two men lifted a body out of a grave.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/article602064.ece/Grave-secret-at-bottom-of-garden
Maggs, you know how weak that attempted deflection is…
http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Man-aan-boom-gebind-vermoor-20100811
@ Gwebecimele,
Thanks for that.
Pierre, jy moet nogal dikwels voel jy gooi perels vir die varkies…
TRANSFORMATION – THE ANC’S PERPETUAL “ LIBERATION STRUGGLE .“
by Cedric Mayson ( a minister of religion, is a former anti-apartheid activist, political detainee and also former co-ordinator of the ANC Commission on Religious Affairs.)
Cape Times
April 9,2010
Insight ( page 9 )
“We must liberate Jesus from Christianity and ourselves from individualism ”
CEDRIC MAYSON
UBUNTU and its variations is an African concept which has no direct translation into European languages. It means humanness, compassion and co-operation, a concept of communal awareness, responsibility, and enjoyed togetherness, which is the primal experience of human beings – the Earthlings of this planet, now threatened with self destruction later this century.
The crucial ubuntu awareness was destroyed by civilisation when it separated religion from politics and economics. Only the recovery of ubuntu can empower Earthlings to liberate themselves.
It is for this reason that I say: Jesus – yes! But Christianity – no, no, a thousand times no! We need to liberate Jesus from the corruptions
of Christianity because there is a major difference between the Good News of Jesus, found in the gospels, and the bad views of Christianity arising from the Church and its creeds.
The way of Jesus is about abundant life, but Christianity has spread an abundance of death by its subservience to economic and political gods.
Jesus proclaimed that the ruling power in the human community is the compassion and co-operation of love. Christianity prioritises the self-love of “prosperity for me”; rejects and opposes all other religions; and its first concern is to perpetuate its own denominational divisions, not the unity of humanity.
The emphasis of Jesus was good news for life on Earth. Christianity focuses on superstitions about life after death. Jesus, and all the prophets of humanity, spoke of similar spiritual truths, like love, joy, and peace. But these were distorted and limited by the religions that followed them. The prophets point to something beyond ecumenism, beyond inter-faith, but our religious institutions hold us back in the past.
As South Africans we have a unique place in history because our belief systems embrace Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Baha’i, African Traditions, and Agnosticism.
Liberating Jesus from Christianity, and all the prophets from their corrupted institutions, enables us to build on our primal beliefs and discover a new experience of ubuntu together.
This is why we need a new liberation struggle. The liberation we have achieved so far is only skin deep. We rejected racism, but the depths of oppressive systems remain. Colonialism still rules. Cecil Rhodes, and Verwoerd, King Leopold of the Belgians and western preachers reappear in darker pigment.
Liberation means designing an economy to honour and delight the needs of the community, not the greed of the elite.
Liberation means empowering politicians to seek global peace and fulfillment for all people on Planet Earth, not to promote themselves and their interests by force;
Liberation means using education and all resources of the media to develop a well-informed mature population, able to resist indoctrination and corruption;
Liberation means empoweringour heads and our hearts to grow from divisive competitive religions and emotional superstitions into a united spiritual power of caring and co-operation of ubuntu today;
Liberation means controlling our use of the Earth and its atmosphere and the growth of population to ensure an environment in which all life can prosper.
From the catastrophe of civilisation which separated religion from politics and secular power from spiritual responsibility we need to move toward a liberation that means joining the struggle to rediscover the compassion and co-operation of ubuntu.
The choice seems straightforward: ubuntu or extinction. We are Earthlings. We are South Africans of various genders, ages and races, of Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish,
Buddhist, African Traditional, and Agnostic beliefs, and different histories — but we are all together on planet Earth.
We Earthlings are an endangered species. Our systems of managing the economy, politics, reason and religion have failed. They are dominated by individualistic self-centred elitist classes which are collapsing, and could well extinguish the human environment this century.
Africa offers hope by liberating the primal human motivation of cooperative compassionate community of ubuntu. It is the Good News of the ruling power amongst Earth-lings.
Because individualistic elitism is destroying us, it is necessary to believe and practice the communalism of ubuntu. This was spelt out by the prophets in all religions, but was corrupted and lost by the subsequent religious institutions. These collaborated with economic and political elites and the message of the prophets is recovered only through the rediscovery and practice of ubuntu today.
I firmly believe that we can only save ourselves by joining the struggle together to establish new compassionate and co-operative systems – nationally and globally. It is the next step in evolution.
Institutions cannot lead us. The way is through building small groups of ubuntu communities to transform the institutions in every part of society. From the bottom up.
@ Maggs
1. Are you seriously suggesting that the CC would strike down legislation giving preferential treatment to persons of a lower socio-economic class, based on s. 9(1) of the equality clause, and would find such discimination not to be protected under s.9(2). I think you are plainly wrong in this regard.
2. Pierre, what do you say on this?
3. It seems clear to me that persons were disadvantaged in SA prior to 1994 based upon socio-economic class. (Amongst many other bases, obviously). Indeed, members of the influential Marcist school (Harold Wolpe, etc), would argue that class lay at the foundation of the entire apartheid order, and that class was therefore in some sense the foundational axis of discrimination.)
4. Even in the U.S., where AA is much harder to implement, many commentators argue that class based AA would pass muster. See “Rethinking Affirmative Action, Clark D. Cunningham and N. R. Madhava Menon, Michigan Law Review, Vol. 97, No. 5 (Mar., 1999), pp. 1296-1310.”
http://www.equaleducation.org/commentary.asp?opedid=186
@ Pallo Jordan writes:
“DA politicians … pretend no one was responsible for a century of blatantly discriminatory and oppressive policies.”
Pallo is right. What a wise and incisive observation.
Thank goodness for the repentant Nats who sit with the ANC!
Marcist = Marxist
Michael Osborne says:
August 16, 2010 at 16:45 pm
Hey Michael,
“1. Are you seriously suggesting that the CC would strike down legislation giving preferential treatment to persons of a lower socio-economic class, based on s. 9(1) of the equality clause, and would find such discimination not to be protected under s.9(2). I think you are plainly wrong in this regard.”
Yes I am.
I think that if the drafters of our constitution intended s.9(2) to apply to lower socio-economic class, it would have been drafted in a way which was that clear.
I am in no doubt that s.9(2) was not intended to cover the lower socio-economic classes in general but the structural and systemic inequalities as a direct consequence of the apartheid era laws and policies – aany individual or group of persons who are able to show that they are/were disadvantaged directly or indirectly may have a case to make.
Socio-economic issues are probably best dealt with under s.2792).
27 Health care, food, water and social security
(2) The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of each of these rights.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 16, 2010 at 17:28 pm
“Thank goodness for the repentant Nats who sit with the ANC!”
LOL!
As for the transformed Nats (or as the Mossad Guy would say, the Gnats i.e. Good Nats), there’s none so holy as the converted.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh!
Now she’s gonna get it.
The Public Protector could not find any irregularities in contracts awarded to SGL Engineering Projects, with which ANC Youth League president Julius Malema was involved. …
The protector’s office said investigations into awarding tenders to SGL by other municipalities found that the procurement processes “generally complied” with the constitution, the Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 and the supply chain management regulations.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20100816183835708C171907
@ Michael,
Brink v Kitshoff NO (CCT15/95) [1996] ZACC 9; 1996 (4) SA 197; 1996 (6) BCLR 752 (15 May 1996)
[40] As in other national constitutions, section 8 is the product of our own particular history. Perhaps more than any of the other provisions in chapter 3, its interpretation must be based on the specific language of section 8, as well as our own constitutional context. Our history is of particular relevance to the concept of equality. The policy of apartheid, in law and in fact, systematically discriminated against black people in all aspects of social life. Black people were prevented from becoming owners of property or even residing in areas classified as ‘white’, which constituted nearly 90% of the landmass of South Africa; senior jobs and access to established schools and universities were denied to them; civic amenities, including transport systems, public parks, libraries and many shops were also closed to black people. Instead, separate and inferior facilities were provided. The deep scars of this appalling programme are still visible in our society. It is in the light of that history and the enduring legacy that it bequeathed that the equality clause needs to be interpreted.
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZACC/1996/9.html
Cosatu leader Zwelinzima Vavi has warned that South Africa was slipping into becoming a “predatory state” where a new tier of leaders believed it was their turn to “feed”.
“There is an order in a predatory state – and I’m not saying that is what is happening – but in an ordinary predatory state there is an order in the feeding trough.
“The first family must feed first, and then the cabinet must come, and its family, and then the provincial leadership and the council
Gwebecimele says:
August 17, 2010 at 17:30 pm
Hey Gwebs,
South Africa has put a six-month moratorium on all new applications for prospecting licences in the country while a review of irregularities in the administrative process is ongoing, a minister says.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/business/article607737.ece/Moratorium-on-prospecting-applications
Is this closing the stable door after the horse has bolted or is it creating more space for sons and lovers?
“Transformation” has not helped the poor or middle class, we know this because the overclass claims the status of being insanely rich whilst the underclass endures the burden of this disparity.
Food price increases, energy increases, rates increases and excessive transportation costs are proof “Transformation” is merely a buzzword.
Another sabotage of transformation, we love foreigners more than our own.
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page292518?oid=502551&sn=2009+Detail&pid=287226
Zille is right. We spend billions on running censuses and there is no need for profiling but a genuine poverty strategy.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article632077.ece/Zumas-War-on-Poverty-entrenches-poverty–Zille
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=119872
AFTER 10 YRS AT THE HELM OF OUR POLICY MAKING, NOW HE REALISE THAT A MINING STRATEGY WAS NEEDED YERSTERDAY.
Netshitenzhe, executive director of the Mapungubwe Institute of Strategic Reflection (Mistra) said on Tuesday.
“To pose that question now [nationalising] I think is to miss the point,” he said, addressing the Mining for Change summit in Johannesburg.
“The level of state participation… will be informed by the effectiveness of the mining sector strategy arising out of a compact among all players,” said Netshitenzhe, who is also a member of the ANC’s national executive committee.
“What the country needs is a comprehensive mining strategy.”
Nationalisation of South African mines was expected to come under discussion at the ANC’s national general council (NGC) later this month. The ruling party’s youth league, resolved at its own NGC last month to push for it to become ANC policy. ANCYL president Julius Malema would address the summit later on Tuesday.
Netshitenzhe said all interest groups in the mining sector should “knuckle down” and develop a mining vision, rather than “wait on the sidelines” and criticise the strategic plan developed by the national planning commission. Black economic empowerment should be “subsumed” to the objectives of the country’s mining strategy.
“Ownership should not be treated as an end in itself, but a means of promoting the strategic imperatives,” he said, adding that state ownership should be informed by the strategy.
The Black Management Forum (BMF) on Tuesday described as “misleading” a study conducted on the top 100 JSE-listed companies, which indicated that direct shareholding by BEE companies is 8 percent.
Questioning the stock exchange’s study, BMF president Jimmy Manyi said the JSE manipulated the figures to artificially increase black ownership.
The stock exchange’s study, unveiled on September 1, found that 8 percent of the top 100 JSE-listed is directly owned by black people.
Manyi said the suggested the 8 percent figure was “inflated” because the study has not drilled down to actual black ownership.
Manyi said BEE shareholding is not always synonymous with black shareholding, the former could have a white component and thus a distortion of what is effectively in black hands.
“If for example a BEE company that is 40 percent black owned were to acquire a 40 percent stake in a JSE-listed company, the effective share holding of black investors translates to only 16 percent,” Manyi said.
It is thus a mistake by the study to imply interchangeability of these terms, he said.
Manyi said the BMF is disappointed with the JSE’s “mathematical manipulation to artificially increase black ownership” in the top 100 listed companies rather than encouraging its members to conduct meaningful deals that will benefit the country’s economy.
“Our optimistic position that black people own less than 5 percent of the JSE remains firmly in place,” Manyi said.
The study has unfortunately confirmed that transformation is in reverse gear, he said. – I-Net Bridge.
Gwebecimele says:
September 15, 2010 at 10:20 am
Hey Gwebs,
Do you have any idea of what Cosatu means by :
12.3 The principles that should underpin the education system and policy must be:
- Redistribution: The urgent need to eliminate the three-tiered structure of the education system which features: private institutions, model-C schools, and ordinary public schools and to redistribute resources towards ordinary public schools in working class and poor communities
@ Maggs
I suspect the intention is to redirect public funding from Private elite schools and those modelC’s that have resources ( charging R16000 pa fees).
It is a noble idea but very complex to implement. What about the teachers, do you redistribute them as well?
I must confess that as a black person I feel very ashamed that since 94 we have not started a single top performing school(black managed) that can match the likes of St Stithians,Bishops, St Johns, Michael House etc with all our BEE resources. I understand why these schools will not appoint black management to run them.
Back to your point I am yet to hear a single politician including Cosatu coming up with clear coherent education plan for SA. I just hope the details behind this will suprise us.
Gwebecimele says:
September 15, 2010 at 14:02 pm
Hey Gwebs,
As I understand it, the funds are already diverted from the model C schools to the poorer schools. It’s unlikely that funds from parents can be taken away – it will be stupid even to try but then nothing is beyond some of the madness now creeping in.
Like a mine being just a hole in the ground, a school is just a building. It takes a long time to develop the ethos and culture of the top performing schools. The failure has to be rooted in those who decided that teacher training was the least most important in 1994.
There’s still no plan to develop a strong educator corps but there is R750 million about to be spent on developing some worksheets that may or may not work.
The current education plan as I understand it is :
- buy some workbooks
- send those to schools
- teach
And we’re done.
Gwebs,
Have a look at this site
http://www.ppen.org.za/
@ Maggs
Very encouraging initiative.
At first I Thought one of the members was Enver Motala the” liquidator” but I have since realised that it is a different person.
@ Maggs
Did you hear about a group of people who wants to get together and protect the constitution, led by Sipho Pityana, Ramphele and others. I believe they are meeting at Lillies farm soon?
Gwebecimele says:
September 15, 2010 at 14:50 pm
Interesting people involved, including Enver.
And highly talented and skilled too.
But they are not engaged to the extent that they ought to be.
Gwebecimele says:
September 15, 2010 at 14:54 pm
hahahaha
Yeah – I heard something on 702.
I often wonder how far and wide this tik thingy is used.
Gwebecimele, yep I am also involved. It’s called the Council for the Advancement of the South African Constitution. See http://www.casac.org.za
Gwebe
The lack of education is shameful. I cannot express my disgust enough at the ANC for failing the people.
Any “transformation” is completely and utterly dependent on effective and quality education, without it we’re stuck.
You ask why top-notch schools have not been started? I think you’ll find all the ANC elite and BEE children attend those very schools. No need to deal with the township schools because “that’s someone else’s problem.”
Harsh words I know, but it is a dispicable situation.
I just hope CASAC devotes itself to genuineTRANSFORMATION, rather than to obessively undermining a certain JP who happens to have contributed more to our jurisprudence than anyone since Lord De Villiers!
Thanks.
Thanks Prof for the link.
@ Maggs
What do you make of people who are members of the ANC but choose other platforms to raise/advise/advance the ANC/government’s constitutional and democratic goals?
Is this some evidence that there is no space for this debate internally?
I am not criticizing these individuals but I would be worried by these develoments as an ANC leader.
@ Prof
Let us hope this organisation will not suffer the same fate as Kriegler’s organisation. I see there is quite a number of strong personalities with varying interests and I forsee challenges when it comes to crude and direct matters. As long as you keep on the periphery and have a common opponent(which is pretty obvious at this stage) the take off will be smooth.
A continous alignment will be needed to keep this afloat.
I personally welcome this initiative and all the best!!!!
Here is another initiative.
September National Imbizo 24 -26 September.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-07-11-a-call-to-the-people
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/entertainment/2010/09/15/dana-and-mazwai-in-bid-to-preserve-biko-legacy
zoo keeper says:
September 15, 2010 at 15:15 pm
Hey Zooky,
The “township schools” are needed.
These are the schools that are used or encouraged when chaos is needed or strikes are underway.
The schools that the leaders and the politically connected send their children to are generally protected from the impact thereof.
If the learning environment, the culture of learning and the culture of teaching was well established, it’s hardly likely that there will be much support when “activism” is needed.
Somebody highly placed in education circles said to me recently that when concerns are raised about problems in education that it normally refers to the schools in rural areas, townships and poor areas affecting mainly African people.
Therein lies the reason for the lethargy and intransigence (and some mad notions about and practices in education).
You’re not going to find a school in a middle class area that has no toilets, no telephones, teachers working “shifts”, ghost teachers, no school books or resources and the like.
But then as you correctly point out, the rich and mighty send their own to these schools so tough for the others.
Gwebecimele says:
September 15, 2010 at 16:04 pm
Hey Gwebs,
There are issues that need to be raised within the organisation and issues to be raised publicly with very few issues that should not be out in public space.
Robust debate and conversations should happen in the open – that will deepen and strengthen democracy as well as contribute to the shape and character of the ANC.
It’s only when people bring the ANC into disrepute that leaders should be concerned.
@ Gwebs and Zooky,
So now some students are demanding 25% “free marks” to start with.
Cosatu should add that to the cache of revolutionary ideas!
Tsk tsk tsk!
Imagine an organisation being set up that purports to co-ordinate the defence of the Constitution that does not include this country’s gun owners?
Who has done more to build legitimacy of this Constitution by reminding people of their co-ownership of it and educating them about the fundamental rights we think are under assault, above all, by trying to get them to go read the Bill of Rights?
Duh!
Apartheid excuse won’t hold – Zuma
13 Sep 2010 | Kingdom Mabuza and Chester Makana | 20
PRESIDENT Jacob Zuma has warned that the ANC will soon run out of using apartheid as an excuse for failures.
Someone can ask, what have you done in the last two decades?
With four years left before the end of the second decade of democratic rule in South Africa, Zuma told delegates to the provincial general council in Makhado, Limpopo, on Saturday the party would be faced with critical questions from civilians.
He expressed his fear over a reign that is characterised by corruption, poor service delivery, comrades milking government resources when building RDP houses and lack of jobs.
“After 20 years it would be very difficult to blame apartheid. Someone can ask, what have you done in the last two decades?” said Zuma.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/13/apartheid-excuse-won_t-hold—zuma
@ Maggs
“PRESIDENT Jacob Zuma has warned that the ANC will soon run out of using apartheid as an excuse for failures.”
With respect, this is nonsense.
How can 350 years of colonialism and apartheid be negated in two decades? You watch. Apartheid will remain a useful explanation for many, many generations to come!
Thanks.
DOORS OF LEARNING ON FIRE
http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=433910
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
September 16, 2010 at 9:17 am
Hey Mossad G,
Ja, ok, whatever.
The most important question which needs to be answered by you is will there be peace and friendship?
Van Aardt said that although a black professional class had emerged since the end of apartheid, the recession hurt lower-income black workers and contributed to inequality in a country still struggling to overcome the legacies of white-minority rule.
His study found that collectively whites still out-earn blacks in South Africa, with white adults expected to make a joint R795bn in 2010, compared to R734bn for black adults, even though whites make up 9.2% of the population and blacks 79.4%.
Per capita, white adults take home R179 380 a year, nearly six times the R30 279 per capita annual income for black adults.
That gap threatens the development of a country which depends on household spending for economic growth, Van Aardt said.
@ Brett
The cake is growing indeed.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Most-South-Africans-are-poor-20101107
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2011/02/23/south-africa-s-super-rich