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	<title>Comments on: What happens when 5 judges retire?</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Pierre De Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2991</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2991</guid>
		<description>Lindelani, a huge review was done on the SAHRC and all other Chapter 9 institutions by the National Assembly Committee headed by Prof Kader Asmal. I was involved in that review. The SAHRC came out of it looking like one of the best run organisations given their limited resources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindelani, a huge review was done on the SAHRC and all other Chapter 9 institutions by the National Assembly Committee headed by Prof Kader Asmal. I was involved in that review. The SAHRC came out of it looking like one of the best run organisations given their limited resources.</p>
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		<title>By: lindelani maseko</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2955</link>
		<dc:creator>lindelani maseko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2955</guid>
		<description>Mpho.

Firstly, I must stress than SAHRC is badly runned in this country. It looks like they lost their mandate God knows who&#039;s directing the organisation.

Even if I can suffer grave human rights abuses, SAHRC will be the last organisation that I can consider reporting to.

Grave human rights violations are happening on daily basis in this country (you can think of any, in any event you dont have to think of any you witness them everyday as well), they don&#039;t attend to those they just choseto stress on senseless issues. SAHRC had very good objective at the time it was founded. All its objectives have been lost and it is running like a chicken without its head.

SAHRC is something dead DOG WITHOUT TEETH, it does not serve its objectives. PLEASE I BEG YOU DONT EVEN MENTION THAT THING CALLED SAHRC. It&#039;s one of the senseless organisations waisting our limited resources in the country- HUGE REVIEW IS NEEDED ON SAHRC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mpho.</p>
<p>Firstly, I must stress than SAHRC is badly runned in this country. It looks like they lost their mandate God knows who&#8217;s directing the organisation.</p>
<p>Even if I can suffer grave human rights abuses, SAHRC will be the last organisation that I can consider reporting to.</p>
<p>Grave human rights violations are happening on daily basis in this country (you can think of any, in any event you dont have to think of any you witness them everyday as well), they don&#8217;t attend to those they just choseto stress on senseless issues. SAHRC had very good objective at the time it was founded. All its objectives have been lost and it is running like a chicken without its head.</p>
<p>SAHRC is something dead DOG WITHOUT TEETH, it does not serve its objectives. PLEASE I BEG YOU DONT EVEN MENTION THAT THING CALLED SAHRC. It&#8217;s one of the senseless organisations waisting our limited resources in the country- HUGE REVIEW IS NEEDED ON SAHRC</p>
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		<title>By: Mpho</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator>Mpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2930</guid>
		<description>&quot;Prof all this comment about appointing of judges it was never raised when Tata Madiba was a president, never raised when TM take over presidents and now you are raising it as JZ is about to take over. &quot;

Hmmmm????  Now why would you not have raised any of this as an issue before????  Hmmmm?????  It&#039;s a difficult one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Prof all this comment about appointing of judges it was never raised when Tata Madiba was a president, never raised when TM take over presidents and now you are raising it as JZ is about to take over. &#8221;</p>
<p>Hmmmm????  Now why would you not have raised any of this as an issue before????  Hmmmm?????  It&#8217;s a difficult one!</p>
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		<title>By: Mpho</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2929</link>
		<dc:creator>Mpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2929</guid>
		<description>Pierre re:  lindelani

LMAO!  

Now, Lindelani, if the SAHRC are telling Vavi and Malema to withdraw their statements or else, do you really think that it will do your aspirant corporate career much good to be Subpoenaed before them too for your comments here?  LOL!  You really are hysterical!  

Investec?  Ha!  Is it possible that you were able to lose even more credibility?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pierre re:  lindelani</p>
<p>LMAO!  </p>
<p>Now, Lindelani, if the SAHRC are telling Vavi and Malema to withdraw their statements or else, do you really think that it will do your aspirant corporate career much good to be Subpoenaed before them too for your comments here?  LOL!  You really are hysterical!  </p>
<p>Investec?  Ha!  Is it possible that you were able to lose even more credibility?</p>
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		<title>By: Mpho</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2928</link>
		<dc:creator>Mpho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2928</guid>
		<description>&quot;A future President Zuma, who is facing serious charges and will have a vested interest in who these judges are, should recuse himself from having to make such appointments.&quot;

How on earth can the system not cope with taking it from his hands?  An awaiting trial accused with cases before the Con Court cannot appoint judges to its Bench.  

Oh, why don&#039;t the ANC just announce that Motlanthe will be our next President and then this shit can all stop?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A future President Zuma, who is facing serious charges and will have a vested interest in who these judges are, should recuse himself from having to make such appointments.&#8221;</p>
<p>How on earth can the system not cope with taking it from his hands?  An awaiting trial accused with cases before the Con Court cannot appoint judges to its Bench.  </p>
<p>Oh, why don&#8217;t the ANC just announce that Motlanthe will be our next President and then this shit can all stop?</p>
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		<title>By: Ntu</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2919</link>
		<dc:creator>Ntu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2919</guid>
		<description>Prof all this comment about appointing of judges it was never raised when Tata Madiba was a president, never raised when TM take over presidents and now you are raising it as JZ is about to take over. What agenda do you have? Is the same agenda of the scorpion or same agenda of the constitutional court judges or is the agenda of those people who do not want see Msholozi occupying the highest office in the country. Why I do not agree with Msholozi in most issues but I see there is an agenda of destroying him personally. 

The constitutionally court judges they have run to the media first with their complaint instead of following proper procedures approach JSC. But I also doubt the independence of the JSC as the judge president himself is the member of jSC. The same person who fired Msholozi in 2005 is the same person who has appointed the current JSC members, the judge presidents, the deputy judge presidents and the minister of justice and the NDPP. But we do not hear noise about the independence of the judges and all this institution.

The issue of the arms deal is well orchestrated strategy to destroy Msholozi, how many people when involve in serious crime left off the hook by the scorpion in prosecution them. 

The same constitution you use to protect the constitutional judges, jsc, ndpp, and other forces which is against ubaba Msholozi, must protect the right of Msholozi against any form discrimination.

We will support Msholozi in applying for permanent stay of his cases as this is clear is not just case but a strategy to destroy him political and stand his way of occupying the highest office in the land. The ANCYL Vos Mazibuko branch support the statement made by president of the youth league. If need be we will take up arms and kill for Zuma. We will not allow a situation where leaders of the ANC will be destroy while watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof all this comment about appointing of judges it was never raised when Tata Madiba was a president, never raised when TM take over presidents and now you are raising it as JZ is about to take over. What agenda do you have? Is the same agenda of the scorpion or same agenda of the constitutional court judges or is the agenda of those people who do not want see Msholozi occupying the highest office in the country. Why I do not agree with Msholozi in most issues but I see there is an agenda of destroying him personally. </p>
<p>The constitutionally court judges they have run to the media first with their complaint instead of following proper procedures approach JSC. But I also doubt the independence of the JSC as the judge president himself is the member of jSC. The same person who fired Msholozi in 2005 is the same person who has appointed the current JSC members, the judge presidents, the deputy judge presidents and the minister of justice and the NDPP. But we do not hear noise about the independence of the judges and all this institution.</p>
<p>The issue of the arms deal is well orchestrated strategy to destroy Msholozi, how many people when involve in serious crime left off the hook by the scorpion in prosecution them. </p>
<p>The same constitution you use to protect the constitutional judges, jsc, ndpp, and other forces which is against ubaba Msholozi, must protect the right of Msholozi against any form discrimination.</p>
<p>We will support Msholozi in applying for permanent stay of his cases as this is clear is not just case but a strategy to destroy him political and stand his way of occupying the highest office in the land. The ANCYL Vos Mazibuko branch support the statement made by president of the youth league. If need be we will take up arms and kill for Zuma. We will not allow a situation where leaders of the ANC will be destroy while watching.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2916</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2916</guid>
		<description>Come on Clara I believe you should qoute from the same constitution that the president has a prerogative to appoint a Chief justice. I will paste the relevant qoute from Pierre&#039;s post. 

 ...The President as head of the national executive, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission and the leader of parties represented in the National Assembly, appoints the Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice and, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission…

The problem with you dear is that you do not even trust the justice system in this country. You assume because the president exercises the sole right of appointing judges albeit through consultation, those judges are not independent and succumb to him. Needless to say that you bring little or no proof of this. please bring proof of your assertions.  There is indeed no provision of one to absent himself from making such decisions. Remember there is one president. Not a group of presidents were your silly suggestion would be accomodated. Like in the Langa Hlophe fiasco with the JSC. 

Even if Zuma would appoint these judges he has no buddies amongst them. So they would not do him any favours.   
Unlike you Clara I as a true south african democrat ( which I hope you too are) believe in the supreme law of the land our  constitution and the courts that up guard  it. I also believe in the countrie&#039;s courts to apply the law impartialy and without fear , favor or prejudice. 

PS: and that according to Msimang J should be applied no less or no worse even to Zuma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on Clara I believe you should qoute from the same constitution that the president has a prerogative to appoint a Chief justice. I will paste the relevant qoute from Pierre&#8217;s post. </p>
<p> &#8230;The President as head of the national executive, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission and the leader of parties represented in the National Assembly, appoints the Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice and, after consulting the Judicial Service Commission…</p>
<p>The problem with you dear is that you do not even trust the justice system in this country. You assume because the president exercises the sole right of appointing judges albeit through consultation, those judges are not independent and succumb to him. Needless to say that you bring little or no proof of this. please bring proof of your assertions.  There is indeed no provision of one to absent himself from making such decisions. Remember there is one president. Not a group of presidents were your silly suggestion would be accomodated. Like in the Langa Hlophe fiasco with the JSC. </p>
<p>Even if Zuma would appoint these judges he has no buddies amongst them. So they would not do him any favours.<br />
Unlike you Clara I as a true south african democrat ( which I hope you too are) believe in the supreme law of the land our  constitution and the courts that up guard  it. I also believe in the countrie&#8217;s courts to apply the law impartialy and without fear , favor or prejudice. </p>
<p>PS: and that according to Msimang J should be applied no less or no worse even to Zuma.</p>
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		<title>By: Clara</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2915</link>
		<dc:creator>Clara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2915</guid>
		<description>165(2): &quot;The courts are independent and subject only to the Constitution and the law, which they must apply impartially and without fear, favour or prejudice.&quot;

It&#039;s a bit rich to assume the courts are independent, especially so in the case of the Constitutional Court whose judges are all appointed by the President as head of the national executive and thus have to salaam to him. A future President Zuma, who is facing serious charges and will have a vested interest in who these judges are, should recuse himself from having to make such appointments.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>165(2): &#8220;The courts are independent and subject only to the Constitution and the law, which they must apply impartially and without fear, favour or prejudice.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit rich to assume the courts are independent, especially so in the case of the Constitutional Court whose judges are all appointed by the President as head of the national executive and thus have to salaam to him. A future President Zuma, who is facing serious charges and will have a vested interest in who these judges are, should recuse himself from having to make such appointments.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2914</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2914</guid>
		<description>Well prof I have to agree with you on Lindelani. In the revolution we value sacrifice. Our happines and  destiny are tied with those of the rest of our population. Yes the revolution does not pay that much. Thing is we not concerned with our well bieng rather that of all our citizens. I guess there some of us who still believe in UBUNTU. You might have heard about that at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well prof I have to agree with you on Lindelani. In the revolution we value sacrifice. Our happines and  destiny are tied with those of the rest of our population. Yes the revolution does not pay that much. Thing is we not concerned with our well bieng rather that of all our citizens. I guess there some of us who still believe in UBUNTU. You might have heard about that at least.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre De Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/what-happens-when-5-judges-retire/#comment-2913</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=594#comment-2913</guid>
		<description>Lindelani, I assume you are an aspirant satirist and are pretending to have these opinions to make fun of narrow-minded bigots? If not, how do you justify working for such an evil, white, racist, organisation as Investec? Should you not rather put your money where your mouth is and work for the revolution instead? O, I forgot, the revolution does not pay as much....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindelani, I assume you are an aspirant satirist and are pretending to have these opinions to make fun of narrow-minded bigots? If not, how do you justify working for such an evil, white, racist, organisation as Investec? Should you not rather put your money where your mouth is and work for the revolution instead? O, I forgot, the revolution does not pay as much&#8230;.</p>
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