“Fidel Castro still have some good legacies despite his not so good repuation”

Yes, and apartheid still have some good legacies despite its not so good repuation.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article163096.ece

Sorry for the diversion from the topic at hand…

Thanks for your response bro. I will respond to your post using numbers to refer to the points you have raised in their order.

NB: My failure to respond to each allegation in your post should not be construed as an admission of the veracity thereof. I have already made my opinions known in respect of your other points and therefore deem it unnecessary to reiterate same herein. Had I had sufficient time to respond to your post I would refer you to each relevant para in each relevant post which addresses same. I respond as follows;

1. Thanks very much for restating my posts as that has made it quite easy to respond to yours.

2. If you look closely into the ANC leadership, which, needless to say, is the ruling party, you will understand my concerns. The recent events, which include the political assassination of Mbeki, will reveal that as long as we don’t question the leadership and expect them to adhere to high standards, they will start taking the electorate for granted. This is especially true in the context of our country where the Apartheid is still fresh in our minds and the ruling party emotionally blackmails people to force them to vote in its favour. To substantiate my argument, have you ever checked how much the state broadcaster (as opposed to public broadcaster) called SABC plays the Apartheid movies and documentaries just before elections? Pertaining to leadership and dictatorship not being synonymous, tell that to the members of the ruling party who don’t need qualifications to hold posts in Govt but only need to become card carrying members of the ANC.

3. This does not negate my points here but merely introduces new allegations, marshals same as mine and refutes them. Basically, no need for a response.

4. Good points but you need to relay same to the likes of Nathi Mthethwa, Fikile Mbalula, etc. who are busy spending our taxes. Quintessential examples of the fundamentally flawed “leaders” I am talking about.

5. I reiterate, I am merely expressing my opinion which you may differ with instead of attacking me or the intention behind what I say;

5.1 The fact that millions around the world revere the man does not mean I am not entitled to have my own opinion about the man or take issue with one of his leadership flaws. Lenon (a member of The Beetles) who was revered around the world, made a statement to the fact that the Beetles were more famous than Jesus Christ. Does the number of people who revered him and/or The Beetles mean I must not take issue with his utterances? To me it does not!

5.2 Of course it is their prerogative to take issue with any of my statements and I must respect their rights to do so. However, you need to afford me the same rights that you are exercising against me even by posting this post I am responding to. You need to allow me the right to say what I feel. I view him in my own way and I am legally entitled to do so.

5.3 Sharpeville Massacre – It is a fact that the march against the pass laws was an idea conceived and was to be carried out by the ANC. It is another fact that the PAC under the leadership of Sibukwe high jacked this idea and 10 days before the march planned by the ANC, the PAC marched and its march resulted in the Sharpeville Massacre. It is another fact that during the material times the PAC was under the leadership of Sobukwe. White prejudice – It is a fact that the PAC broke out of the ANC due to its rejection of the relevant line in the declaration. It is another fact that it was Sobukwe who was the leader of the break-away faction. Now, can you come up with ‘facts’ which will rejects my facts?

5.4 This has nothing to do with Zulu people. I must however hasten to express my disappointment in your statement about the Zulu nation. I thought we had one nation called South Africa – the land of diversity. What is next, Xhosa nation, Pedi nation, etc? Shaka may have been brave but that does not refute the fact of his desire for absolute power by eliminating those who were opposing him and the neighbouring tribes he viewed as threats to his intended dominance and his desire for revenge against those who persecuted him and his mother in his youth. Both these resulted in the Mfecane or Difaqane which cost many (black) African lives and for which I still hold him personally liable! These are facts and no amount of admiration from the African-Americans will change these!

5.5 If I have rubbished these leaders by pointing out their obvious flaws then you are welcome to “un-rubbish” them by defending them. So far you have dismally failed. I consider a failure to objectively look at oneself and honestly comment on what one sees as the worst kind of treatment one can dish for himself. I will continue to “rubbish” our leaders in an attempt to groom better ones especially in view of the apparent mixture of crappy leaders who are after tax-payers money that the ruling party seems eager to produce! This is my opinion as well…

I did not respond earlier on not because I couldn’t but because I thought it would be a waste of my time; but I have since changed my mind. Here are my responses to your responses – which I restate for the sake of convenience:

Sne said: “It would be difficult for a President to know where he’s leading his people as the concept of leadership in the South African context on its own is collective … It is basically the party which is leading and not a leader but the latter is just there to put a face to the government. Once he starts to act like a leader and leads people in a particular direction, then he’s labelled as a dictator and not a leader.”
I say: “A president, even in this context, is still a leader. He has to understand the mission of his party and be willing to lead the party towards the achievement of that mission. If we put a person as a president just to put a face in government, why should we be surprised at the mediocre level of delivery? By the way, leadership and dictatorship are not synonymous terms.”

Sne said: “In politics most decisions are made in order to fit a particular instance at a particular time; flexibility as opposed to rigidity is the name of the game.”
I say: “Flexibility and conflicting promises are not the same thing. Also, a leader does not have to be exercise flexibility in an irrational manner. There is a big difference between decisiveness and rigidity. Leaders should be decisive yet not necessarily rigid. Even flexibility involves decisiveness. Decisiveness implies knowing and be willing to do what has to be done in order to achieve a desired outcome.”

Sne said: “That is exactly what a political leader must do in order to garner more votes and support. If this were the case then we would not have any politicians but priests.”
I say: “I would agree with you if the aim of running for political office is to get votes – of course it would seem to be the case judging by the selfishness of those in power. I would argue that the purpose of running for office is to serve the people. Winning votes and ultimately winning the election is just means to and end and not an end itself. The end is taking care of the well-being of those who are supposed to be served.”

Sne said: “Once again I am not rubbishing African leadership but merely expressing my opinion as a free thinking South African citizen.”
I say: “Your response to me suggests the exact opposite. I agree with khosi. Take a look at your response and my comments below:”

Sne: “Mandela; They say a leader in whose absence the job cannot be done is a stupid leader. I need not say more about him.”
I ask: “Aren’t you insinuating Mandela is stupid? Some people, especially millions around the world who revere the man, will see this as rubbishing Madiba. I do.”

Sne: “Bantu Biko (May his soul rest in peace); his inflexibility cost him his life. …. Where did he lead people to, death?
I say: “A person who leads his people to death is an irresponsible leader. Any other person who was inspired by Biko, and those who still draw inspiration and guidance from his writings, will take issue with your statement. You are in fact calling Steve Biko irresponsible, yet you claim not to rubbish the man. I ask you, why would an oppressor want to murder an irresponsible leader who, for all intents and purposes make their mission easier?”

Sne: “Sobukwe; I do not even have to remind you of what he did which resulted in the Sharpeville Massacre …. Moreover, the main reason why he broke from the ANC to form his own party, PAC, is because of the deeply-held prejudice against white people. Remember he was objecting to the line that ‘South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black or white.’
I ask: “Didn’t Sobukwe subscribe to the idea that an African is one who owes allegiance only to Africa? A far as I can read this line, it makes no reference to the colour of a person. In your later post you claim not to have said these leaders are responsible; yet here you are holding Sobukwe responsible for the Sharpeville massacre instead of putting the blame on the perpetrators of that dastardly deed.

Sne: “Shaka; I do not know why you even consider him a leader. …. He was just a man whose heart was filled with vengeance against those who persecuted him in his youth and his mother, Nandi, and had an unquenchable thirst and insatiable appetite for power.”
I say: “Some of us are proud members of that proud Zulu nation; thanks to the bravery and insights of a man they called “Ilembe eleqa amanye amalembe ngokukhalipha”. I hope you know that many people around the world, including African-Americans, hold him to very high esteem. In fact they identify with him. I don’t have to tell you that your comments about him tantamount to rubbishing him.”

You are entitled to your views, but don’t claim not to have rubbished our esteemed leaders because you have just done that; even though you are “merely expressing my opinion as a free thinking South African citizen.”

No, we are not going around in circles here. Wena Sne, you are failing to defend the indefensible and you have caught yourself in a spaghetti of narrow-mindedness.

As Africans we cannot and do not have the luxury to be content with saying we are thinking independently, when such thoughts and views only serve to entrench prejudices about ourselves. I, for one, will never tolerate such even when I am labeled as one drowning in insecurities.

It is (un)comforting to note that this post of yours, although it ostensibly sought to reply to my post, contains nothing which negates nor slightly refutes what I said. Until you provide me with a reply which damages the substance of my posts (as opposed to side issues), I will refrain from engaging you any more on this score. Clearly, we are going around in circles here.

Your last post is at least, utter nonsense…. and at best, mute. Maybe you should revert to cheerleading Sne.

I will use extreme examples here to further clarify what is actually quite straightforward in principle: should a modern day Italians excuse slavery just because Romans once recognised it? Should a Chinese man who loves Chinese history and many Chinese values excuse footbinding just because it was once practiced in China? Should a Columbian forgive the cocain trade just because his countryman might have grown the dope? Of course not. So why should an African person overlook transgressions or errors just because Africans may have committed them?

Yes Africans can and should be fairly and reasonably critical of Africans. Greeks should not be afraid to tender fair criticism of Greeks and so on.