Maybe Rooseveld High School in Gauteng is a wonderful school with a truly nurturing atmosphere where real learning takes place and the critical thinking abilities of learners are developed so that they can become active citizens in our society. You know, a school where children are taught to respect diversity and embrace difference, to work hard and to think for themselves.
That would make Rooseveld High School a very different school from Pietersburg High School in Polokwane (where I matriculated in the 1980s). There, we were told to love God and our country (which belonged only to white people as black South Africans belonged in Homelands – unless they worked for white people). We were also warned to show pride in our bodies by shaving our hair poenskop (like they did in the army), by refraining from self pleasure and by marching around in military uniforms every Wednesday in preparation for defending apartheid on “The Border” (a mythical place that was somewhere in illegally occupied Angola.
Nothing much seemed to have changed at Pietersburg High School. The present headmaster of Pietersburg High School, one DW Schoeman, earlier this year gave an astonishing speech at assembly saying that ”the ethos of the school requires zero tolerance for the use of alcohol and drugs, Satanism and gay activities”.
Leaving aside for the moment the worrying fact that somebody in charge of educating children at one of the top schools in Limpopo believes in Satanism (has anyone ever seen a Satanist and is it true that they play Kurt Darren songs backward to listen to the hidden messages about skinning cats, smoking at school or kissing girls and liking it?), it is rather worrying that Mr Schoeman had not heard that section 9(3) of the Constitution prohibits unfair discrimination on any ground including sexual orientation.
Equating the use of drugs with “gay activities” displays the kind of reactionary attitude that was rife amongst teachers when I was at school there. At least one assumes it has stopped employing a nasty maths teacher called “Koorspen”, who came to class on Monday’s with a heavy hangover bragging about how he and some selected boys from the residence had gone out at night to assault black people.
All this came back to me when I read that a pupil called Luthando Nxasa was having some trouble at Rooseveld High School at the moment. According to her father she was thrown out of class after she spoke isiXhosa to a girl who sits next to her in class. Nxasana was also allegedly prevented from writing two mid-year exams or going to the toilet, and forced to spend three school days standing in a foyer. Luthando takes up the story:
“It was a free lesson. Everyone was chatting among themselves. Even the teacher was just chatting to some other learners,” said Luthando, who sits close to the desk of her business teacher, Mrs C Venter. Lebo sits next to me. She was worried about not completing her work. I told her to relax, she shouldn’t worry.” But then the teacher heard the conversation. “Mrs Venter said to me: ‘Luthando, either you speak English or you get the hell out of my class.’ I stopped and looked at her and decided to take my bag and walk out.” As Luthando walked out, she confronted the teacher, telling her that the reprimand was racist. Venter then allegedly said: “You’re digging a big hole for your small little body.”
If even half of this is true (and the details of the story and the fact that a spokesperson for the school trotted out that hoary chestnut called the sub judice rule, suggests that there was some truth to this story), the school, rather than Luthando, is the one that has been digging a big hole for itself.
What is clear is that a school is prohibited from telling pupils that they cannot speak their home language at school and that they have to speak English – even in a free period where no lessons are taking place. Although the rule might apply to all pupils, the effect of the rule would be to exclude and marginalise some pupils based on their race, language or culture and would therefore unfairly discriminate against those pupils whose first language was not English.
As the Constitutional Court made clear in the Pillay case (dealing with the Hindu pupil who was prohibited from wearing a nose stud), a school had a special duty to accommodate diversity and difference (whether on the basis of their culture, race, language or sexual orientation). This meant that the school could not make rules which, while formally neutral, would enforce the basic assumptions of the dominant group at the school. (I note from the schools website that there are no African representatives on the school governing body, so I assume that the ethos of the school is still very much white and English – despite the diversity of the pupil body.)
It was also not very comforting to note that the code of conduct of the school prohibits pupils from talking to teachers unless being invited to do so. How can one actually become a thinking, reflective person if one is not allowed to speak to a teacher unless invited to do so. If this rule was actually adhered to, one would not be able to ask a teacher any questions (unless invited to do so), and will not be able to challenge a teacher – even when he or she says something racist, sexist or homophobic. This would be absurd and pedagogically disastrous.
Maybe because the school is trying to instil a Waspish reserve in it students in order for them to be able to fit in when they emigrate to the UK? The code also states that “any excessive display of affection is unacceptable”. God forbid one would want to show affection – next thing one might want to talk about one’s emotions too and that, my dear Watson, just won’t be cricket.
This case forces us to ask serious questions about the manner in which schools deal with diversity in post apartheid South Africa. Do the teachers and members of governing bodies of former “white” schools in South Africa understand that they come to the task of teaching and running the school weighed down by many unexamined assumptions, prejudices and beliefs which – if not checked – would marginalise and alienate pupils who do not share their race, religious, cultural or language background. Do they understand that they have a special duty to review policies and codes of conduct to ensure that these are not used merely to try and force all pupils to become perfect little white, heterosexual, conformist, Englishmen or Afrikaners (who all went along with apartheid after all)?
Somehow – and not only because of the stories relayed above – I have my doubts. If my suspicions are correct, the question may be asked: what kind of society are we creating where we teach pupils that they can only get ahead if they betray their own identities and strive to become good little white, heterosexual, English speaking, Christians? Are we not creating a time bomb by promoting insecurity and resentment that will haunt our society for decades to come?
Teaching in a remote rural school in Northern Cape, I can perhaps see the logic behind enforcing an English-only rule in the classroom–English is the de facto lingua franca, and it is essential for students to become fluent. I know from my fumbling efforts to learn Setswana that it’s basically impossible without an immersion program, where students are forced to use the target language at every opportunity.
This example, though, clearly goes way beyond that rationale. My students are always speaking Setswana, and though I always force them to speak English to me in English class, sometimes it’s helpful for one of the quicker students to re-explain an assignment to the rest of the class in Setswana so the slower kids are sure to get it. Though speaking English as much as possible is critical for language acquisition, I find that sometimes a bit of home language can help with cementing the trickier concepts.
Kicking someone out of class for a few words of home language is beyond ridiculous.
Thanks for picking up on this one and the lets watch the space.
Luthando under went an experience that we live with in this country every day. I as a legal practitioner cannot talk to the court in my mother language Siswati. why because it is not part of the formally accepted languages English or Afrikaans.
Our President goes to the most rural of places where there isn’t even a school for an imbizo, there he addresses the poor people in English. Have we ever taken the time to ask ourselves why do we need to bind ourselves to conform to a certain practice because if we dont the community might castigate us. On the other hand, i hardly hear the French President speaking English be it he is at the White House, No 10 Downing Street or Union building.
The Constitution alone cannot help us in reeding out people like Mrs C Venter and Koorspen. ours is a societal and mind set problem.
It seems South Africa’s multiplicity of languages, while a great gift and resource, is also a great challenge.
A friend in America teaches in a school with a large Indian population. She allowed the children to speak Urdu at recess and at class breaks until several of the children came to her crying, saying that some of the kids were saying suggestive and inappropriate things (these were elementary-school kids) and harassing their classmates, relying on the teacher’s inability to understand them. The teacher was frustrated because she wasn’t allowed to ban the children from speaking it, but she also felt she couldn’t protect them.
Obviously that is not the case here, but can we imagine cases in which it might be preferable for the teacher and students to speak the same language? Or do we just accept cases like the one I outlined as collateral damage in protecting the language and cultures of all our learners?
While I agree that the reaction by the school (as reported) is excessive, I also believe that a school’s language policy must be enforced. If parents opt to send their children to an English medium school, then those pupils must be expected to speak English.
My children are at an English-medium school and the rule basically applies that while at school, these children will use English as the medium of communication. Before anybody jumps up and down, the school is predominantly made up of Black and Coloured learners. In fact, white, English children are very much in the minority.
In our area, there are other good schools which offer Afrikaans and Xhosa mediums of instructions, so this is not the only school to which learners can be sent. Accordingly, if they CHOOSE to attend this school, the school’s policies should be adhered to.
At least the white teachers are at school.
Stick to the story.
Trying to run down white schools is really absurd when you compare it to the alternative.
Oh and whoever does your proof-reading needs a serious smack on the forehead.
Personally, I think the last paragraph of the post is a little melodramatic. If you read the whole article, you would see that the school have stated that the pupil in question, and her twin sister, haven’t exactly been model students. So, who is telling the truth? The evil white school or the poor, picked-on student?
Sorry, but I think we face far greater issues in our education system than the enforcement of a school’s language policy where parents have accepted the language policy of the school by enrolling their children there.
“It was also not very comforting to note that the code of conduct of the school prohibits pupils from talking to teachers unless being invited to do so. How can one actually become a thinking, reflective person if one is not allowed to speak to a teacher unless invited to do so. If this rule was actually adhered to, one would not be able to ask a teacher any questions (unless invited to do so), and will not be able to challenge a teacher – even when he or she says something racist, sexist or homophobic. This would be absurd and pedagogically disaterous.”
This paragraph does not make sense to me. What I understand is that when a pupil wants to ask a question, he/she she put up his hand, and wait until the teacher indicates he/she may speak. To do it in any other way would lead to chaos. May I ask what method is in use at UCT when students have questions in the lecture room? Do they just interrupt the professor and have their say?
Thank you Pierre. This is indeed a valuable posting about a very important issue.
We know that, even before the strike, an entire generation of poor black children are essentially getting no education at all. But far be it from Pierre to allow that fact to distract us from such a scandalous abuse in the very small pockets of our education system where a fraction of privileged black pupils do actually get taught anything!
Thanks so much.
Did I imagine the bit where Venter was being spoken of as a ‘fat byatch’ in Xhosa?
@ Brett
From my distant school days, I distinctly remember that school kids do not generally lie or exaggerate when they go home to mommy and daddy and cry about their teachers. As the American anti-child abuse activists always chant on the court house steps: BELIEVE THE CHILDREN!
This is a rule I have always lived by.
It is not suprising that such an important topic will receive the least attention and the usual bearers of “SA the good news” and other denialists will remain in their holes.
The fault, is of course, that of the ANC.
This is supposed to be a multilingual country. S 6(1) of the Constitution is unambiguous.
What has the ANC done to encourage multilingualism?
Its approach to this particular front in the war of position has been anything but positive, the ANC knows only coercion.
What it has done is speak about this country and its different languages – often – in code: Aimed at, taking shots at, Afrikaners. Like the fact that, since 1994, our Afrikaans schools have almost halved, and a fraction of University courses are available in Afrikaans.
I don’t know where MDF went to school (Slovenia?), but if he had been educated in most countries he would know that, generally speaking, where a school kid says A, and a teachers says B, you can safely bet that the latter is the more true.
Nevertheless, if it is true that it is school policy that pupils are forbidden to converse in their native tongues, that is unacceptable.
Interesting that we have had a lingua franca in Southern Africa for at least a century but it is politically incorrect to speak of it.
Some years ago, I taught at private school in Taiwan, which had about 35 foreign staff.
Almost half of them were Afrikaans.
True to form, much fun was had by all slagging off teachers, students, parents, anybody at all really, in Die Taal.
This carried on for a while, until we were banned from speaking Afrikaans on school premises.
Of course we were all mightily upset about our rights being infringed upon, but we all knew that we had had it coming.
They knew we were disrespectful, even if they did not know what we were saying.
@Fassbinder, 13:44 pm:
Where are your manners? You forgot to say thanks.
Thanks.
FDR may be in a predominantly white neighbourhood, but it is not a school that any parent white or non-white in the suburb would send their children to if they have a choice.
I am inclined to support the school in almost anything they do, its real tough trying to teach when your pupils are sitting in class sharpening their bowies with a spliff behind each ear.
On a balance of probabilities, I wouldnt believe a word the pupil says.
I happen to have attended a bilingual primary school in my youth, where staunch Afrikaans values were forced upon us. Today I’m very grateful that I was taught never to refer to an adult by their first name, not to put my hands in my pockets when talking to a teacher, and to politely put my hand up when I wished to speak in class. Reality: The Afrikaans students at my school were consistently better in sports and academics than us English students, and I still have many Afrikaans friends who are the hardest workers and straightest talkers I know. I think some of the values which Roosevelt High School are trying to teach are well worth the effort, and schools should be entitled to prohibit ‘excessive affection’ and the like on their grounds.
It seems clear to me that in this case neither party is being entirely honest. I think you make a good point that schools should encourage diversity and treat their pupils with dignity regardless of their language or sexual orientation. If this isn’t being done at Roosevelt, then they need to seriously re-evaluate their staff and policies. For the rest though, I really highly doubt that the school is attempting to churn out good little heterosexual English-speaking Christians who plan on immigrating to the UK, just because they’re being taught some Afrikaans values.
@ Pierre…..has there been anything in the media relating to Rooseveld High incident suggesting that “the ethos of the school requires zero tolerance for the use of alcohol and drugs, Satanism and gay activities”. If not what is the link to your alma mater?
The father was interviewed on eTV and it is my understanding that the Equality Court, SAHRC and the police will be dealing with this matter. With all this attention it is to be hoped that the truth will eventually prevail and that all the parties will be required to testify under oath. We will then find out who was actually in the wrong. Was it the teachers or is it possible that the children were misbehaving.
The other leader with many wives and fiefdom (ZEEE)
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE68609D20100907
Swaziland is southern Africa’s last absolute monarchy and all political parties are banned under King Mswati III, who has the authority to appoint the prime minister and dissolve parliament.
Mswati is frequently criticised by rights groups as a dictator who runs the country as his own personal fiefdom. Swaziland is plagued by regular food shortages and has one of the world’s highest HIV/AIDS rates.
As Justice Malala said, this is banana republic stuff:http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-09-07-npa-withdraws-charges-against-wa-afrika
It is strange that some posters here say they rather believe the school and not the child when the school has not denied that the child was told she could not speak isiXhosa. Here is the response:
Shawn Scannell, chairperson of the Roosevelt High school governing body, said the school was concerned about distorted and inaccurate accounts of the problem. The matters were being dealt with by the formal structures in the education system, he added. Scannell said the correct disciplinary procedures had been adhered to by the school and that the two girls had a history of bad behaviour, stretching back to primary school. He also said the matter was sub judice.
“It is also regrettable that the father has not allowed for due process to run its course, but has now resorted to using the media, four months after the fact.”
This kind of response sound suspiciously like the response of a politician caught with his hand in the cookie jar. There is a lot of talk about procedures but no outright denial of any of the serious claims made by the pupil.
I think what many people have in mind is the different circumstances in which the child could have been told she could not speak her home language. If she had been saying something offensive with the intention to defy the teacher, I certainly understand the teacher’s actions. If they were in fact in the middle of a class, and the girl had been told to stop talking, after which she began talking to her friend in Xhosa, I can also understand the actions of an overworked teacher struggling to reign in a large class. This seems to me less like an elaborate plot against minority languages, than an isolated incident involving a teacher having a bad day.
Even if the young girl’s story is true, I can’t imagine that the school would prevent people from speaking their language because they think it’s inferior. (it would be quite distressing if this were so) It seems far more likely that they would merely be trying to enforce English during class because they believe this is the best way for the children to properly learn the language of commerce in this country.
Thanks for the excerpt though – you’re right about the evasive language of the statement, but I do think it could just be a badly worded misstep in an effort to cover their legal bases and keep this issue from getting out of hand.
Pierre De Vos says:
September 7, 2010 at 16:55 pm
What you are quoting is not the school’s response, but part of Candice Bailey’s article on the school’s response.
I fully support this and other english medium schools who insist their pupils speak english while at school. One of the biggest problems we have is the number of pupils entering english medium schools who cannot speak english at all, never mind the number of pupils we have who battle because english is a second language.
Instead of penalising an english medium school for attempting to improve the language skills of the pupils. Change the school to a non-english medium. These parents bus their kids into the school, some from great distances in order for their kids to be taught in english in a former model C school because they perceive this school to be better than those where they live.
I wonder how many would stay if the language of instruction changed to, say isiXhosa and the current crop of teachers (none of whom were on strike by the way) were replaced by SADTU’s finest?
Pierre I do not understand your attitude in this regard, this is not about equality or race, it is a simple fact that our education system is failing, big time, enforcing the english only rule is purely a matter of common sense.
I know that this is off the topic, but this article actually made me laugh out loud.
“DA DEMONSTRATES SIGNS OF HATING PUBLIC SERVICE WORKERS AND UNDERMINING CENTRALISED COLLECTIVE BARGAINING – WHY?”
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71654?oid=197529&sn=Detail&pid=71616
Considering the article is in response to a letter from Helen Zille stating that she had been instructed by the national office of the Ministry of Public Works to enforce the “no work, no pay” rule and that she was looking at ways in which to make this easier on workers, the article is hysterical. Even funnier is that this rule applies throughout the Provinces, so it is just another example of how politicised everything in this country is.
Sandra, of course for a white English speaking person such a rule would seem like common sense (which is sometimes just another phrase for what the powerful group believes is the norm). If one has lived one’s whole life as part of the dominant language group, it might seem like common sense because one has never experienced the exclusion and marginalisation that the dominant culture of an institution visits on those who do not share the same language, culture and unexamined assumptions that are embedded in the institution’s culture. One speaks from a position of power and privilege and thus cannot see the harm because one’s power and privilege blind one to the harm which cannot even be imagined (because it would require one to take oneself outside of one’s own experience and world view, which one need not do because one has the power). In the same way that men often cannot see how an institution’s culture is male-centric and how this disadvantages women because they have always been males and males have always ruled the world, so many people who speak one of the dominant languages (Afrikaans or English) cannot see the problem. It is exactly that blindness that breeds resentment and insecurity. If one cannot even see the problem because one is so steeped in the position of power that comes with being white and English (or Afrikaans) how can one ever display the appropriate respect and sensitivity for diversity and difference? This is one of the challenges of so called transformation that many white people just do not get because they have never been on the receiving end of the exercise of this kind of invidious or hidden power and have not experienced the oppression at the hands of it.
@ Pierre……..just for a moment consider the statement…….” the two girls had a history of bad behaviour, stretching back to primary school.” Presumably if this matter goes to the Equality Court and / or the SAHRC and / or the courts, then the school can substantiate this statement by calling witnesses. What then, and does historical provocation have a role to play in the way that the teacher re-acted. I would think that anyone working in such a potentially explosive environment would understand the need for moderation, but there are limits.
To turn your words around…….”It is strange that some posters here say they rather believe the child and not the school “. Surely the sensible option is to await the outcome of due process but then such a course may not suit all the agendas involved
Anton, if it is true that the pupils have a history of bad behavior, this would not justify an otherwise unjustifiable act. If I have a history of bad behavior at school would that justify the teacher stabbing me with a knife? No. in any case, one would have to learn what the bad behavior might have been. Maybe the teachers thought the child behaved badly because she was a cheeky K@*&r? But as you say we do not know all the facts. Meanwhile, the basic point remains: It can never ever be justified for a teacher to ban a pupil from speaking her home language at school under any circumstances. This is the law. Get used to it.
@ Pierre……… a question based on your statement …….”the exclusion and marginalisation that the dominant culture of an institution visits on those who do not share the same language, culture and unexamined assumptions that are embedded in the institution’s culture.”
If this is really seen as a problem by the many black parents who move heaven and earth to get their children into historically english and afrikaans speaking white schools, why do they continue to do so.
Could it be that you are making assumptions about the cultural and language imperatives of black parents which are simply wrong. In doing so you could well be underminding the imperatives of these parents and their children
@ Pierre………I wonder if there is a single case in the history of this country where a teacher stabbed a pupil. I seem to recall that there are of course cases where pupils have stabbed teachers. None of the pupils were white so it probably missed your attention.
When I was a pupil the mere act of talking in class resulted in a bollocking. In fact some of things said to me by my teachers because of MY bad behaviour were pretty ribald. Then of course there were occasions when I was such a little shit that I was caned for my trouble. The teachers were never wrong in my case so maybe I simply do not understand the new paradigm
If I have a group of Polish or Russian pupils who arrive as pupils at an english medium school in SA I would have no problem holding them to an english only rule, complete immersion as one person put it, during school hours. But because this is SA I must hold our black pupils to a different standard? because I might offend someone? no not someone, because I might offend a black pupil?
Pierre, you are making this far too complicated, and quite frankly I think your response reeks of the kind of soft bigotry black people face on a daily basis in this country. There is a fine line between sound constintutional principles and complete liberal hogwash.
This is not about denying pupils their home language, its about ensuring the grasp pupils have of the medium of instruction is sufficient to educate them.
This is an english medium school, instruction is in english, exams are in english, presumably this pupil will be writing matric, in english next year, I also assume the school would like this pupil to pass matric.
I hope I do not seem facetious, but it seems to me that you cannot see the problem because you are so steeped in the position of power that comes with being so awfully liberal, so how can you display the appropriate respect required to deal with such sensitive issues that our educators face? and to paraphrase this is one of the challenges of so called transformation that many liberals just do not get because they have never been on the receiving end of the exercise of this kind of invidious or hidden power and have not experienced oppression at the hands of it.
Not nice is it.
Professor, while I share your wish to see schools take adequate and well-conceived measures to accommodate diversity in ways which remain in touch with the Constitution, even if half of Luthando’s version is true, I think it is somewhat premature to cast Roodevelt High School in a bigoted light.
You see, even if we assume that Luthando’s version is true, we don’t know very much. For instance, one piece of information – which, while not necessarily dispositive, would be pretty, bloody relevant – would be any credible indication that Luthando’ teacher had cause to give Luthando the ultimatum: speak English or get out. And the teacher might well have been justified in doing so if Luthando has a history of recalcitrance and if Luthando was aware of any rule to the effect that English was to be the exclusive language in the class room for some or other good reason.
Sandra, wouldn’t your analogy be closer if it involved a few thousand Zulus colonising Russia, suppressing the “natives” for a few centuries, then building schools (payed for with taxes), where Russians children were to be “immersed” in Zulu, and not allowed to speak Russian?
That aside, if it turns out, on the proven facts, that the complainants were in fact told that they could not speak any language but English to each other, and this was outside of the “immersion” context, would you, Sandra, agree that this was unacceptable?
In turn, Pierre, would you accept that the injunction to speak only English was OK, if in fact it was in the context of an English “immersion” class?
Professor, I just looked at your answer to Anton. If you will, let me sketch something out here. (But before I do, I wish to make it clear that I’m going to have to rely on your knowledge of the relevant case law.)
I’ll start with a question: is it truly the case that a teacher, even in the narrow context of one class, cannot instruct student’s to speak one language exclusively when (a) the teacher’s goal is to help student’s improve their command of the language in question and (b), having some students switch to some other tongue when bored or frustrated could undermine the teachers ability to teach effectively and thereby blight the teacher’s entire project?
I ask this question – which is a lot longer and clumsier than I intended – because, on your brief exposition of the principle stated in the Pillay case, the rationale thereof seems to be to avoid promoting the assumption that one group is superior or dominant. And the circumstance outlined in my question does not seem to fit that nasty bill.
Samantha says:
September 7, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I am sure you were not serious when you posted that…
In a pretty general way, I’m going to agree with quite a bit of what Tracy said in her post at 15:23pm. But before I elaborate on that, I feel strangely compelled to say that I’ve agreed with you, Tracey, far too often of late and I’m going to have to pick a fight at some point
Now on the assumption that I’ve drawn a reasonably accurate inference – and while making it plain that I’m am not here commenting on constitutional permissibility – I think you’re right: perhaps it’s unwise despise conservative Afrikaans values without investigating them on their merits.
Sandra says:
September 7, 2010 at 17:57 pm
Hey Sandra,
“Instead of penalising an english medium school for attempting to improve the language skills of the pupils.”
As best as I can make out the lesson was not on lanugage skills – “her business teacher, Mrs C Venter”, according to Pierre.
You also say “These parents bus their kids into the school, some from great distances in order for their kids to be taught in english in a former model C school because they perceive this school to be better than those where they live.
The former model C schools are generally far better than non-model C schools – there’s a host of reasons and history which underlies that.
Be that as it may, these are state schools which do not belong to some small clique nor are those estate of the previously advantaged.
Any South African child who is admitted is entitled to be at the school.
It’s not a privilege.
It seems that the concern of the teacher was not improper behaviour of the learner, not the casual conversation between two learners, but the language used by the learner during a non-language lesson – that may be indefensible.
Pierre, it does seem somewhat as if you have rushed to judgment here. You are right to childe the school for resorting to the absurd sub judice chestnut. But the Star piece you cited suggests that the parent may not have acted in an exemplary fashion; Education Department spokesperson Charles Phahlane Department attempted to intervene, and scheduled a meeting, but “parent declined to attend.”
How about a cease-fire in the attribution of racist motives until all the facts are out? Can you not avoid perpetrating the mirror image of Brett’s bizarre presumption that every incident of black of white violence is motivated by black racism?
Pierre, ek sal graag wil sien of jy dit vir ‘n week sou uithou voor ‘n klas in ‘n staatsskool.
Toe, ek dare jou?
Michael, don’t you mean Brett’s rule that we have all been socialised into a knee-jerk reaction of attributing the worst imaginable motives to the opposite race?
Maggs, did your brain ask for permission to leave the room?
Did you miss the ‘fat bitch’ in Xhosa part?
Brett Nortje says:
September 7, 2010 at 20:13 pm
Hey Brett
“Maggs, did your brain ask for permission to leave the room?”
No it did not – it does so entirely on it’s own accord when you’re about. It usually mumbles something like “You don’t need me to engage with Brett”.
For anyone wondering what Brett is confused about (which is nearly everything) :
According to Van der Westhuizen, Venter had been insulted in a vernacular language once before. A pupil had called her a “fat f***ing bitch”.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100906094007370C249844
LOL!
At times, it is almost possible to imagine I am dealing with an intelligent life-form…
Brett, please do not post messages in arcane neo-Germanic bastard tongues. You have made me, and doubtless thousands others, feel humiliated, marginalised, othered, excluded, oppressed, colonised, deracinated and differentiated!
First, an aside. Call me old fashioned, but I would have thought that swearing at a teacher IN ANY LANGUAGE is grounds for severe censure, if not expulsion. Is this is true I wonder why teachers continue working at schools where this sort of thing happens.
I hope that my understanding is correct because I am trying to make sense of the following sequence of events:
# Apparently, based on report back from his children, the father has issues with the school. So far so good because most of us are defensive of our children
# Apparently the father seeks the help of the Department of Education, presumably to sort out the issues between himself, his children and the school. Good move on the fathers part.
# The Department takes the sensible step of setting up a meeting between the father and the school.
# According to the IOL report the father apparently refuses to attend this meeting. Why?
# Four months go by
# The father goes to the media, the police and the SAHRC instead.
This has all the makings of an “egg on the face event”. The question is whose face/s?
I went to a model C school in the Eastern Cape and I remember being scolded by white teachers for speaking Xhosa within their earshot.This was in the 1990s and I would have thought things must have changed since then. The funny thing is when we black kids were amongst ourselves we still spoke Xhosa and that has not had a detrimental effect on our ability to speak english. I have cousins and siblings who have gone to black township schools and they speak fluent english. I believe that the problem the teachers have is not a matter of kids learning english but rather teachers being paranoid about kids talking about them behind their backs. No doubt it does happen but even english speaking kids whisper nasty things about their teachers behind their backs. Prof it is always funny how people who will never be disadvantaged by something always refuse to see another persons side of the story. I also think in 2010 white people should be learning themsleves some AFrican languages. Seriously guys, its just amazing how very few white people are even trying to learn to speak an African language.
Hi Anton,
I’d like to call you old-fashioned – strictly as an aside, you understand.
This article was ticking along fairly well until the conclusion:
“If my suspicions are correct, the question may be asked: what kind of society are we creating where we teach pupils that they can only get ahead if they betray their own identities and strive to become good little white, heterosexual, English speaking, Christians? Are we not creating a time bomb by promoting insecurity and resentment that will haunt our society for decades to come?”
Mmm … well, okay, if the choice is between striving “to become good little white, heterosexual, English speaking, Christians” and the rude, conceited little brats that the “education” system is producing, I’ll take the former. (BTW: How does a black person “strive” to become white? Or are they those “DA-supporting coconuts” we keep hearing about?)
But the real clincher is: “Are we not creating a time bomb by promoting insecurity and resentment that will haunt our society for decades to come?”
Considering what is going on this country right now, trying to elevate this classroom spat into a national crisis is a tad absurd, not to mention over the top.
Sne says:
September 7, 2010 at 19:16 pm
I was absolutely serious when I posted my comment.
A number of Afrikaans people send their children to my children’s school because they want them to be conversant in English. These children must also follow the language policy of the school.
I would be interested to know whether there would still be such a hue and cry if the child in question had been a white, Afrikaans learner who had been berated for not speaking English.
I am also curious as to the reasons why this case is going to the Equality Court etc. On what grounds would this case be based?
Puffthemagic thedragon,
agree with you’re saying, I really think a lot of white people can do with learning an African language… I personally think it is a sign of respect to address someone in their home language. I make a point of speaking Sesotho (the only African language I know) to people when I am in the country.
I think this case is quite sad. I would have thought the fact that indigenous languages in South Africa (including Afrikaans mind you) is being dominated by English and frankly under threat, Schools would encourage home language usage… English you’re going to pick up anyway in due course!
do these teachers not know of section 6 (2) of the constitution?!
I’m surprised that no one has yet commented on part of Luthando’s punishment: not being allowed to go to the toilet. This seems such an extraordinary and what an old-fashioned person might term Victorian punishment. If the teacher had washed her mouth out with soap I could have understood the connection – thence came the words that befouled the airwaves. But what on earth does going to the toilet have to do with speaking a language other than the official one in class? How can this punishment be justified for any classroom misdemeanour? (Perhaps if the student had returned from the toiled and smeared excrement on the blackboard there might have been a justifiable reason for banning her from going to the toilet again!) Preventing someone from going to the toilet as punishment smacks more of Guantanamo Bay than school. In fact I think that this form of corporal punishment is worse than the traditional one, which has at least some form of logic: ‘break the rules and I will inflict pain on you.’ But ‘break the rules and you won’t be allowed to have a crap or change your tampon during school hours’?
If it is true that the school punished Luthando in this way – and in fact the other punishments aren’t exactly intelligent either (being prevented from attending class and writing some exams doesn’t seem the best way to further a child’s education) – then I do think they have a case to answer.
Perhaps Sandra would care to explain the merits and purpose of these various punishments that were meted out on the ill-behaved student. She seems very clued up about education and teaching methodology at former model C schools. Frankly, I’d rather settle for home education if that is the way schools treat children.
samantha,
regarding your comment:
“I know that this is off the topic, but this article actually made me laugh out loud.”
the issue here is that the exact manner in which the “no work, no pay” rule penalty will be implemented (over x months or y months) is currently the subject of negotiation at a national level under the auspices of the PSCBC, in strict accordance with their mandate; NEHAWU is quite right, if the WCP government gives effect to the penalty prior to conclusion of negotiations, it will be a unilateral (and probably illegal) action (and provocatively stupid)
as to their claim that the DA “hates” them, well that truly is just so terrible of the DA…i feel for NEHAWU, my mother used to hate me as well (maybe they can go for counselling)
hey, btw (not picking a fight or anything) but what’s the news on manie van dyk…how’s his (ummm, shadow) public enterprise working out
p.s. to answer your soon-to-be-asked question: i hold the DA to a higher standard of ethics, because that is exactly what they claim to represent…we’ll watch this space
p.p.s. congratulations on your appointment as resident (constitutionallyspeaking) DA councilor, brett & maggs will be in contact shortly regarding your stipend
Puffthemagic thedragon: seeing that you know how to speak isiXhosa, how do you say “fat f***ing bitch” in isiXhosa
Sarah Palin says:
September 7, 2010 at 23:51 pm
Hey SP,
This is by far the most interesting and relevant post so far – thanks for the enlightenment.
There’s no substitute for the good teacher!
Taking up issues with incidents happening in a school such as Rooseveld High School (because some little brat in the past felt he was prejudiced) is counterproductive in a country where 90% of the schools are dysfunctional, teachers are never in classes, the list is endless.
Now for one indecent, at a school that probably is one of our better schools, the whole school is also pulled down to the mire in which the rest of the schools are finding themselves.
This is the problem we find in our country and it is distressing that people that should know better so willingly participate.
Why are we always trying to fix something that is functioning ( be it with warts and all) and in the process ensuring that it is also destroyed.
We are slowly but surely breaking every functional system in our society.
@ Samantha
I live in a small village on the coast. We have only on Primary School, it being an english medium school only. Here afrikaans speaking children together with the zulu speaking children are not allowed to speak anthing other than english. Than is why I for one will, from next year, be driving my child 30km to the nearist afrikaans medium school.
I think it is a case of, those (Pierre you espessially included) not in the business of education of school children do not understand the way schools are run these days. I do not think it is as cut and dry as Pierre tries to make it out. There are reasons for these language policies that should be understood before trying to brand tham as being racist. You might be a bit out of touch with reality on this one, Pierre.
Now here’s a very serious issue which should be of concern to everyone.
Teacher held for boys’ rape
Wed Sep 08 08:34:56 SAST 2010
A teacher in Piet Retief, Mpumalanga, has been arrested for allegedly raping young boys in the area.
The 26-year-old teacher at Nqobile Combined School in Ethandukukhanya township was arrested on Monday.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/08/teacher-held-for-boys_rape
How many times have we read about teachers having sex with their pupils (with unwanted pregnancies as a result). This appears to be the case even at our local school.
Why is nothing said about this? Why are fathers willing to take on teachers in Model C schools and even the education department and equality court is drawn into the fray, but elsewhere everything goes with dire consequences to the learners?
@ Sarah Palin
“Preventing someone from going to the toilet as punishment smacks more of Guantanamo Bay than school”
Sarah is right. As more and more facts leak out, it is becoming clear that the incident may even have constituted an international crime. I demand a full investigation as to how exactly the complainant was “prevented” from visiting the lavatory. Handcuffs? Or stern admonitions?
Has anyone alerted Mr Malema?
HOW I WISH THIS MINISTER WILL BE SO DIRECT IN OTHER AREAS OF HIS WORK. HE IS 100% right.
Cape Town – Sports Minister Makhenkesi Stofile is “furious” about the comment by Springbok coach Peter de Villiers that the Springboks support Blue Bulls prop and murder suspect Bees Roux.
“Goodness man! Get yourself a spokesperson!” was the advice offered by Stofile to the Bok coach.
Stofile was approached by Die Burger for comment on the statement made by the coach.
“Even I don’t always understand what he says,” he added.
Stofile also believes it will be better for De Villiers to speak in his mother tongue, Afrikaans, if he does not feel comfortable in English.
According to Stofile, who attended a meeting of the parliamentary portfolio committee on sport on Tuesday, he was in China when De Villiers made the comment.
“It’s disgraceful to say that you support someone 100% when he possibly took another person’s life in such a brutal manner. If this was the old South Africa, he would have been charged as an accomplice for that kind of statement.”
etienne marais says:
September 8, 2010 at 1:02 am
Helen Zille’s letter stated that the Province had been advised by the National government that there would be enforcement of the “no work no pay” rule, but that the manner in which this would be handled would still need to be determined. Perhaps she jumped the gun, but at the end of the day, she was merely informing the unions of the facts and that measures would be taken to ensure that people didn’t have all the pay docked at one time, but to make it more manageable. I hardly think this is an indication that they DA are trying to starve the workers to death (LOL!!) or that the DA hates public sector workers. No action has been taken, but they are being informed that the Provincial government must enforce the rules laid down by national government.
Manie van Dyk appeared before a DA parliamentary disciplinary committee. They do not accept his version of the events or his reasons for the expenditure and the matter has now been referred to the Federal Council of the DA.
I was not going to ask you about the standard to which you hold the DA. I hold them to the same standard that I hold myself and believe that anything in which they are involved in should be impeccable and done with integrity, within the rule of law and fair.
Thanks for the “appointment”. I certainly thought long and hard about “coming out” as being partisan to one party, but now that I am out, it’s a lot more fun!!
etienne marais says:
September 8, 2010 at 1:02 am
This is taken from an article on Times Live relating to the letter Helen Zille wrote to the unions:
In it, Zille said her administration had been directed by the national department of public service and administration in writing to strictly apply the principle to striking employees.
“The [Department of Public Service and Administration] has furthermore warned that departments who do not effect the deductions timeously will have to account for this in terms of the Public Finance Management Act,” Zille said.
“This administration therefore has no option but to comply with the directive.”
By Sekete Khanye
In defence of the view that Afrikaans is still imposed on learners
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This blog seeks to cover new information in support of the thesis that Afrikaans is still imposed on learners at the expense of other African languages. This information is sub-divided into the following topics: scientific, statistical and factual realities to politics of language in education, proof of the author’s historical involvement in the struggle for language equality and educational justice, what one of the architects and fathers of the South African democracy, Nelson Mandela, has said about language and education, and relevant provisions in the South African Constitution.
Scientific, statistical and factual realities related to politics of language in education:
Although English may not be the most spoken language for conversational purposes in South Africa, it is the most spoken language for legal, media, educational, business, diplomatic, scientific, medical and technological purposes in South Africa, in SADC and many other parts of the world.
English is the medium of instruction in former white schools in South Africa.
Afrikaans is the only second language provided in most former white schools in
South Africa.
African languages are not provided for in most if not all former white schools even at second language level.
Home language is critical for the cognitive, confidence and identity development of any child.
Most African learners perform worse academically in Afrikaans than they would in an African language.
The poor academic performance of African learners in Afrikaans does not only affect their academic performance in Afrikaans as a language subject but negatively affects their aggregate academic performance as well. This then further affects their competence and confidence.
Homes of African families do not reinforce the learning of Afrikaans taught in class and former white schools do not reinforce the learning of African languages spoken in homes of African families and so African learners are frustrated by this deliberate and yet solvable condition.
It is morally correct for former white schools, public and private, to provide for the teaching and learning of at least two African languages per school.
Most African parents are unable to substantially and sustainably support their children with homework in and on Afrikaans.
When African parents pay school fees in former white schools and taxes to the government, they do so in support of, inter alia, the provision of Afrikaans in former white schools. They do so at the expense of the provision of their home languages in former white schools.
When mathematics, economics, English, Afrikaans, etc, are provided for in the curriculum and budget of the school, no parent is consulted but when it comes to the provision of at least two African languages at second-language level per school, parents are to be consulted.
Worst, a pretext is created by the government that former white schools will initiate and execute consultations with parents on the provision of African languages.
For more than a decade in South Africa’s democracy, there are no government guidelines to guide the implementation of language policies in education, especially in former white schools.
The combination of English as the medium of instruction and a home language at second-language level is the best basic combination to prepare all of our children for global participation and standing in the current and long future to come. This combination prepares every child to access and orientate him or herself in the world. The mastery of the English language helps one to access many discourses in the world and the learning and embracing one’s home language helps one to actualise in terms of identity and confidence.
I served on an all-white school-governing body at Halfway House Primary School but was expelled. This was soon after I raised the language inequality issue. I spoke to the district director of the Gauteng department of education, Babsy Matabane, but my concerns were dismissed as unfounded. I raised the issue with the MEC, Angie Motshekga, and the CEO, Malelle Petje, of the Gauteng department of education but was held in abeyance. I raised the issue with the Commission for Culture, Religion and Language commissioners but was met with a combination of interest and apathy. I raised the issue with the deputy CEO of the SA Commission for Human Rights, Tshediso Thipanyane, and the chairperson, Jody Kollapen, but was met with a combination of interest and apathy. I discussed the issue with Tim Modise from 702, with Masechaba Moshoeshoe on Khaya FM and with Thabiso Sekwane on SAFM. I also co-founded and served as first general secretary of the United Front for School Governing Bodies (SGB) — an association for SGBs.
Some relevant quotations by one of the architects and fathers of the South African democracy, Nelson Mandela:
“One benefits a great deal by meeting people from different walks of life and that conversations with people from such differing environments tends to widen one’s general knowledge.”
Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world.”
“Education is the great engine of personal development.”
“If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart.”
“There can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way in which it treats its children.”
“Our children are our greatest treasure. They are our future. Those who abuse them tear at the fabric of our society and weaken our nation.”
“We must use time wisely and forever realise that the time is always ripe to do right.”
Some relevant provisions of the Constitution of South Africa: Bill of Rights — Chapter 2
Section 9 on Equality states:1. Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law. 2. Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken. 3. The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth. 4. *1 No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination. 5. Discrimination on one or more of the grounds listed in subsection (3) is unfair unless it is established that the discrimination is fair. § Section 10 on Human Dignity states: Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected. § Section 28 on Children states:
Every child has the right
to a name and a nationality from birth;
to family care or parental care, or to appropriate alternative care when removed from the family environment;
to basic nutrition, shelter, basic health care services and social services;
to be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation;
to be protected from exploitative labour practices;
not to be required or permitted to perform work or provide services that
are inappropriate for a person of that child’s age; or
place at risk the child’s well-being, education, physical or mental health or spiritual, moral or social development;
not to be detained except as a measure of last resort, in which case, in addition to the rights a child enjoys under sections 12 and 35, the child may be detained only for the shortest appropriate period of time, and has the right to be
kept separately from detained persons over the age of 18 years; and
treated in a manner, and kept in conditions, that take account of the child’s age;
to have a legal practitioner assigned to the child by the state, and at state expense, in civil proceedings affecting the child, if substantial injustice would otherwise result; and
i. not to be used directly in armed conflict, and to be protected in times of armed conflict. 2. A child’s best interests are of paramount importance in every matter concerning the child. 3. In this section “child” means a person under the age of 18 years.§ The detailed provisions with regards to language reflects the fact that South Africa is a culturally diverse nation and has 11 official languages. Chapter 1’s Founding Provisions, section 6 is the constitutional basis for government language policy, and Chapter 2’s section 29 places positive responsibilities upon the state in this regard. Section 29 on Education states:
Everyone has the right
to a basic education, including adult basic education; and
b. to further education, which the state, through reasonable measures, must make progressively available and accessible.
Everyone has the right to receive education in the official language or languages of their choice in public educational institutions where that education is reasonably practicable. In order to ensure the effective access to, and implementation of, this right, the state must consider all reasonable educational alternatives, including single medium institutions, taking into account
equity;
practicability; and
c. the need to redress the results of past racially discriminatory laws and practices.
Everyone has the right to establish and maintain, at their own expense, independent educational institutions that
do not discriminate on the basis of race;
are registered with the state; and
c. maintain standards that are not inferior to standards at comparable public educational institutions.
Subsection (3) does not preclude state subsidies for independent educational institutions.
§ Section 30 on Language and Culture states:Everyone has the right to use the language and to participate in the cultural life of their choice, but no one exercising these rights may do so in a manner inconsistent with any provision of the Bill of Rights. § Section 31 on Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities states:
Persons belonging to a cultural, religious or linguistic community may not be denied the right, with other members of that community
to enjoy their culture, practise their religion and use their language; and
b. to form, join and maintain cultural, religious and linguistic associations and other organs of civil society.
The rights in subsection (1) may not be exercised in a manner inconsistent with any provision of the Bill of Rights.
§ [Limits on rights must be reasonable and must have an important objective. Limits should also be “less restrictive.”] Section 36 on the Limitation of Rights states:
The rights in the Bill of Rights may be limited only in terms of law of general application to the extent that the limitation is reasonable and justifiable in an open and democratic society based on human dignity, equality and freedom, taking into account all relevant factors, including
the nature of the right;
the importance of the purpose of the limitation;
the nature and extent of the limitation;
the relation between the limitation and its purpose; and
e. less restrictive means to achieve the purpose.
Except as provided in subsection (1) or in any other provision of the Constitution, no law may limit any right entrenched in the Bill of Rights.
§ Section 39 on the Interpretation of Bill of Rights states:
When interpreting the Bill of Rights, a court, tribunal or forum
must promote the values that underlie an open and democratic society based on human dignity, equality and freedom;
must consider international law; and
c. may consider foreign law. 2. When interpreting any legislation, and when developing the common law or customary law, every court, tribunal or forum must promote the spirit, purport and objects of the Bill of Rights.
The Bill of Rights does not deny the existence of any other rights or freedoms that are recognised or conferred by common law, customary law or legislation, to the extent that they are consistent with the Bill.
§ Section 8 on the Application of Rights states:1. The Bill of Rights applies to all law, and binds the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and all organs of state. 2. A provision of the Bill of Rights binds a natural or a juristic person if, and to the extent that, it is applicable, taking into account the nature of the right and the nature of any duty imposed by the right.
When applying a provision of the Bill of Rights to a natural or juristic person in terms of subsection (2), a court
a. in order to give effect to a right in the Bill, must apply, or if necessary develop, the common law to the extent that legislation does not give effect to that right; andb. may develop rules of the common law to limit the right, provided that the limitation is in accordance with section 36(1).
A juristic person is entitled to the rights in the Bill of Rights to the extent required by the nature of the rights and the nature of that juristic person.
§ Section 38 on the Enforcement of Rights states: Anyone listed in this section has the right to approach a competent court, alleging that a right in the Bill of Rights has been infringed or threatened, and the court may grant appropriate relief, including a declaration of rights. The persons who may approach a court are –
anyone acting in their own interest;
anyone acting on behalf of another person who cannot act in their own name;
anyone acting as a member of, or in the interest of, a group or class of persons;
anyone acting in the public interest; and
an association acting in the interest of its members.
@ Samantha
Latest Household Survey from SSA, Western Cape has 72,8 % of households have flushed toilets and Gauteng is at 50%.
Breaking news.
Zille paid a radio station for coverage- 702
Gwebecimele says:
September 8, 2010 at 11:25 am
Gwebs,
It sounds good for the people of the WC.
Any idea what the percentage of housing backlogs is in each of those two provinces?
Gwebecimele says:
September 8, 2010 at 11:25 am
Interesting that, given the Khayelitsha toilet saga!!
I haven’t heard anything about the payment for news story. If you hear anything more, please give feedback. Thanks so much.
PS I thought I kept myself pretty much well-informed, but you are a walking newsdesk!! Keep the headlines coming.
“The lack of human dignity experienced by Africans is the direct result of the policy of white supremacy. White supremacy implies black inferiority…..menial tasks in SA are invariably performed by Africans. When anything has to be carried or cleaned the white man will look around for an African to do it for him, whether the African is employed by him or not. Because of this sort of attitude, whites tend to regard Africans as a separate breed. They do not look upon them as people with families of their own; they do not realize that they have emotions – that they fall in love like white people do; that they want to be with their wives and children like white people do; that they want to earn enough money to support their families properly, to feed and clothe them and send them to school….” – Nelson Rholihlahla Mandela, Rivonia Trial, 24 April 1964
46 years later I wonder how much has changed!!
samantha,
thanks for the MvD update, i have little doubt that the DA will do the right thing
i accept your explanation on helen zille’s bona fides with regard to the NEHAWU issue, but the cynic in me wants to imagine that it was a poke in the ribs, not because she hates them, but rather because she wants to consolidate the government’s “victory” over the strikers (this is understandable, but in the interest of repairing the toxic relationship, i would expect her to display a little pragmatism)
nevertheless, she will still have to await the negotiated settlement before the province may implement
has maggs and/or brett finalised the terms of your stipend yet
(or are they still on strike)
mzo,
a lot has changed !
but without doubt, there are still a lot of people that nelson mandela’s words would accurately apply to
Samantha
“Zille admits to paying for radio slot”
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100908061854480C258729
Is that the same Nelson Rholihlahla Mandela who gloated that he got a rapist off because the victim could not bring herself to admit under cross-examination that she was penetrated by a black man?
Thanks Mzo for the link.
Even Mandela becomes a villian when others want to dominate debate.
Dominating debate is part of the war on position.
The point I was making is that ideas of what is right and what is wrong are often expendable in this country of ours.
If a white man came to me and told me to put up a defence on rape charges that he could never put his penis in a black woman I’d tell him to f.o.
WHEN swashbuckling Kowie fisherman Ronnie Samuel was caught having sex with a coloured woman by his wife in the early 1960s, most white people living in the seaside resort were outraged.
“It caused a big scandal when my mother caught my dad in bed with the maid – in our own house,” son Ronald “Dickie” Samuel chuckled this week.
One of 17 children from four different women, Dickie said shock turned to horror for many when his father “went native” and left his wife, Marie, and their five children to live in the township with his lover.
“They got divorced soon afterward and my mother moved to another town with us kids.
“She still loved him, but she had no choice … it was a small town and she wanted to protect us from the stigma.”
Hounded by security police – who arrested him four times under the Immorality Act – not even a six-month jail stint could convince Samuel to give up his pregnant township lover.
Instead, the famous South African sea rescue hero heeded a bit of free legal advice from a sympathetic magistrate and got himself reclassified “coloured” – so he could openly live in a nearby township with his new love.
“There really was a lot of hypocrisy in those days and you have to admire Ronnie’s strength of character for taking a stand,” a white relative, Dean Samuel, explained
Describing the legendary fisherman as “a generation or two ahead of his time”, Dean said many of the town’s “leading citizens who moaned about Ronnie also used to go north of the (Kowie) river – but only after dark”.
A master mariner who died in 1997 aged 62, Samuel, sadly, is probably better known for fathering 17 children with four different women than for his high seas heroics – which included rescuing more than 60 people during a lifetime spent fishing.
Although in love with a coloured woman, Samuel had to build a house for himself in the “African” township after people in the coloured township were also angered by his love affair.
According to a cousin, Adrienne Whisson – who recently penned a book called The Samuel Family of Port Alfred – Samuel was “a morally and physically brave” person who deserved some recognition for the stand he took.
“What he did divided the family and hurt his mother and father hugely – especially when he re-classified himself coloured. They would have liked him to do it after they died.”
Although Whisson said rescuing more than 60 people from certain death on the high seas was qualification enough for a street or suburb to be named after Samuel, his stand against apartheid was also admirable and even deserved a statue in his memory.
“To my knowledge, Ronnie was a loving father who always kept in touch with all his children.”
Samuel fathered five children with his white wife Marie, another five with the “housemaid” Miriam “Stuku” Vaaltyn, six with Mummery Nqezo – who was herself the product of an illicit interracial relationship – and one with Evelyn Valentine.
“I used to ask my dad how he got it right with so many women and children and he would just laugh and say: ‘eat fish eggs my son, they are very good for you’,” Dickie recalled.
Despite causing a scandal for “going native”, Dickie is convinced his Dad’s heroics at sea saved him from being completely ostracised by the tight-knit community.
“Dad was the only guy who was brave enough to go to sea to rescue people – no matter what the weather was like. People respected him for that and would call him whenever a boat was in trouble.”
According to three of the children from his relationship with Nqezo, Ronnie was the “best father in the world”, who equally loved all 17 of them with all his heart.
“It really was a mixed-up affair,” ambulance driver Richard Samuel explained.
All his children – including the five from his first marriage – used to regularly holiday together despite strict apartheid laws about racial interaction.
“We would all sit outside at night on blankets and look at the stars and learn things like a ‘kabeljou moon’.”
Although living with Stuku, Samuel fell in love with Richard’s mother Mummery – who was still a teenager – after he spotted her standing on the river bank one day when he was returning from sea. – By DAVID MACGREGOR, Port Alfred Bureau
——————————————————————————–
Nothing but memories left behind
ALTHOUGH he won several bravery awards and widespread recognition for rescuing dozens of people at sea over more than 50 years, only fading memories and newspaper clippings remain of Ronnie Samuel’s heroics.
Even his prestigious Wolraad Woltemade medal was stolen during a house break-in.
According to a Cape Argus story in June 1969, Samuel had already notched up 34 separate sea rescues by the time he was 34. Among the more memorable rescues was diving into raging surf in the Kowie River mouth and pulling a legless man and his wheelchair to safety.
One of his more daring rescues involved swimming 200m out to sea to get a line to the stranded fishing trawler Cape St Blaize and then swimming back to shore. All 13 crew made it safely to shore.
He also dived off the East London pier in heavy surf to rescue a four- year-old child. Samuel was washed overboard and reported missing at sea several times in his life.
On another occasion, he disappeared with 13 crew members – in 120km winds and mountainous seas – for 32 hours before making it to safety more than 100km up the coast.
“If there was a problem at sea, people would go to the township to call my dad,” Dickie Samuel recalled.
“He was one of the few people willing to risk his life to save others.” — David Macgregor
BRETT IS RIGHT, WE HAD CROSS ACTIVITIES FOR A WHILE.
I WONDER HOW MANY FAMILIES IN SA HAVE SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES.
No other person embodied the turbulent times in which they lived more than John Dunn, the legendary hunter, trader and white chief of Zululand whose activities spanned three crucial decades in the history of Zululand.
Dunn was born of Scottish parents in 1824 and grew up in the rough and ready spirit of early Port Natal (now Durban) but at the age of 18, he moved with his young bride Catherine into the unexplored territory north of Durban.
On one of his hunting trips into Zululand, Dunn met Cetshwayo – the heir apparent to the Zulu kingdom – and was invited to settle in Zululand and become the prince’s advisor.
Dunn agreed to the offer and was made Chief of the fertile coastal area known as Ongoye – stretching from Thukela River to the Mhlatuze River in the north – and he increasingly adopted the culture and customs of the Zulu.
Against the disapproval of his wife, Dunn married his first Zulu wife in 1861. Over the next few decades he ended up taking 48 Zulu wives. He was careful to heed Zulu marriage rituals and customs and paid ilobolo (bridewealth delivered by bridegroom to his in-laws) of between nine and 15 head of cattle to the fathers of the brides. For breach of rules, several of his wives were banished from his household and two wives found guilty of infidelity were sentenced to death and executed in accordance with Zulu law.
He is credited with having sired at least 117 children.
The close bond between Dunn and King Cetshwayo strengthened over the years and Dunn rose to become one of the wealthiest and most powerful chiefs in the Zulu kingdom through his ivory and gun trading.
Dunn’s own economic well-being depended on a policy of peace with the British colony of Natal but with the inevitability of war, Dunn’s influence over Cetshwayo diminished and the king and his advisors came to view his motives with suspicion.
Dunn tried to negotiate a position of neutrality for his chiefdom but the British warned him that he would lose everything in a British-controlled Zululand.
On Old Year’s Night 1878 Dunn and his family, 2 000 supporters and over 3 000 head of cattle were ferried across the Thukela into British Natal. A few days later – his fortunes plummeting rapidly – Dunn offered his services to the British. His first task was to brief the British on the terrain of his former chiefdom. He took in the war for the first time at the Battle of Gingindlovu.
Following the defeat of the Zulu army at Ulundi and the arrest of Cetshwayo, the British divided the kingdom into 13 independent chiefdoms and appointed men amenable to British administration, including Dunn who was given back his former chiefdom with increased powers and twice as much land. In the late 1880′s Britain annexed Zululand as a British colony and Dunn unhappily found himself once again under colonial rule.
He eventually washed his hands of all involvement with the British government and retired to spend out his last years as a cattle farmer. His health deteriorated and after a brief illness he died on 5 August 1895 at his farm Emoyeni outside Mtunzini at the age of 71. He was survived by 23 wives and 79 children.
Here is another side to this – Black parents (99%) send their kids to multi-racial schools so that they can NOT only speak the English language fluently, but acquire the ‘white’ accent as well; so that they can gloat to their friends and relatives about how good their kids sound as well as to increase the chances of their children’s employability. Putting this to a vote, most of them will endorse the school’s policy of having pupils speak English all the time.
If Luthando and/or his parents (or anyone for that matter) does not like the policy of the school, then they must get another school with no such a policy, or get the government to force all schools to scrap those policies. Blame not the school for this, but the sick South African society and their hapless government.
Somewhere in California, the school has banned the speaking of Urdu in class because the students/pupils – most of whom are Indian – use Urdu for purposes of cheating in class.
We should not pretend that school opened its doors 4 months ago or that this is simply a battle between a nasty teacher and naughty girls.
The ANC won an election in 1994 and marched into its lines in the war of position in our schools like a triumphant conquering army. 16 years later their pretenses are in tatters – Matric results were not were they were during Bantu Education despite the dumbing down of standards, its pretentious new syllabus went pear shaped….
So, a great deal of schadenfreude is appropriate.
what a lot of people dont seem to get is that the policy of only speaking english is bs. I can understand it for classroom purposes, In terms of answering and asking questions. However, general discussions between students when there are no lessons or there is no class will not impact their learning of english. White teachers and white people are just being paranoid. The thing about white people is that they want people to fit into their world they dont want to fit into other peoples worlds. Thats the major problem with race relations in this country. Many white people need to let go of their ‘Baas’/'madam’ mentalities when it comes to black people.
Tony in Virginia says:
September 8, 2010 at 14:45 pm
“Black parents (99%) send their kids to multi-racial schools so that they can NOT only speak the English language fluently, but acquire the ‘white’ accent as well”.
That’s an astute observation, Tony in Virginia, which is no doubt well informed.
Let’s hope that the HRC takes that into account when they consider this matter.
Mzo says:
September 8, 2010 at 13:02 pm
Thanks for the link. It appears that this radio show was not for promotion of the DA, but for the Mayor and later the Premier, to address service delivery issues in Cape Town and the Western Cape.
It would be interesting to compare the costs of this to the costs of Zuma’s hotline and even more importantly, at least those with service delivery issues had the chance to talk to the person who makes the decisions instead of some call centre operator.
Reading that article highlighted again how useless the ANC opposition are in the WC. Max Ozinsky and Lynne Brown are terminally shocked and indignant in their responses to anything the DA do.
Do any of our universities offer tertiary education in mother tongue languages or they only teaching in English and Afrikaans?
Surely it makes sense that those learners who are more conversant in English will do better in university where that is the medium of language? English is an extremely difficult language to master and it makes sense that the more it used on a day to day basis, the better one will master it, particularly where this language is not used at home.
Perhaps we should view the language policy schools as a positive policy that is aimed at improving the mastery of the language instead of trying attribute negative racial qualities to it. Or is that not possible?
etienne marais says:
September 8, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Maggs and Brett might be part of the strike negotiation committee and waiting to see what piece of the R7billion pie they can offer me as my stipend.
I await their offer.
Samantha says:
September 8, 2010 at 19:32 pm
Hey Sam,
LOL!
You can have pie anytime.
R7 billion you can have too. Are you a Zuma?
Samantha says:
September 8, 2010 at 19:15 pm
Hey Sam,
“English is an extremely difficult language to master”.
Some like to think so.
Do you think it ought to be?
A little aside, if I may, the schooling issue and challenge so easy and yet so traumatic: Ahh, but this is Africa. However, herewith a break, if so desired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCca5mPMp9A
I had the honor of meeting these guys and enjoying a rehearsal. All were studio musicians. The west have alway had many supportive of Africa, and we from the west are not all imperialist, corrupt capitalists or colonizers.
Prof: this one is just for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrrvE2RXeRM&feature=related
@ Tony in Virginia
Tony said: “If Luthando and/or his parents (or anyone for that matter) does not like the policy of the school, then they must get another school with no such a policy, or get the government to force all schools to scrap those policies.”
This rationale, which is followed by the House of Lords, was explicitly rejected by the CC in Pillay. Langa CJ said:
“The School also argued that if Sunali did not like the Code, she could simply go to another school that would allow her to wear the nose stud. I cannot agree. In my view the effect of this would be to marginalise religions and cultures, something that is completely inconsistent with the values of our Constitution. As already noted, our Constitution does not tolerate diversity as a necessary evil, but affirms it as one of the primary treasures of our nation.” (para 92)
This type of argument therefore has no place in SA. It may be that a majority of the parents would vote for an English-only policy. But the Constitution exists precisely to curb majoritarian excesses that infringe on individual rights.
Michael Bishop says:
September 8, 2010 at 21:53 pm
Hey Michael,
Tony’s proposition is wonky.
School policy has to be consistent with the national policy, which must be consistent with our national constitution.
It is inconceivable that a school policy which says that pupils must not talk to each other casually in their home language will meet any tests.
Captured in the essence of a few posts, including Tony’s, is the false sense that the schools are not the property of the state, rather those who imply that seem to think that the schools belong to the few who decide school policy.
State schools are not private fiefdoms to be used as the last bastions of apartheid. These are state property intended for the development of all the people of our country.
I reckon that confrontation between schools and parents/learners is likely to increase because of the SGBs/school management to correctly contextualise their obligations.
Michael, Maggs
I hear you.
But what does the Constitution say about language (and policy) in schools? Should I send my child to Rooihuiskraal Hoerskool, knowing very well that it is an Afrikaans school yet hoping the child be taught in XiTsonga for example?
Hi Tony,
Obviously language in schools is a difficult problem and there might be areas where it is not possible for every student to be taught in their home language. And you are right that i cannot send my child to an Afrikaans school and then demand that they be taught in English.
But…
First, the state is under a constitutional obligation to – as far as possible – provide children with an education in their mother tongue. See the CC’s judgment in the Ermelo Hoerskool case for an exposition of that obligation. So if there is no English school in Rooihuiskraal, and there are a significant amount of English students, the Afrikaans school may be under an obligation to provide lessons in English, or the state may be obliged to build a new, English High School.
Second, that is not the point here. The question is not whether Luthanda could be taught in Xhosa, but whether she could have a private conversation with her friend in Xhosa. That is a very different issue, and the Pillay principle of reasonable accommodation certainly applies.
What a lot of hypocrites !!!!
One incident where a teacher reprimands a pupil ( be it right or wrong) is discussed until the cows come home but not a word is said about;
Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
September 8, 2010 at 8:40 am
Teacher held for boys’ rape
Wed Sep 08 08:34:56 SAST 2010
The 26-year-old teacher at Nqobile Combined School in Ethandukukhanya township was arrested on Monday.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2010/09/08/teacher-held-for-boys_rape
Is this because the perpetrator wasn’t a white Afrikaans speaking woman?
@ Abidam
I have seen daily condemnation of rape , killings and other cruel deeds on this blog. What more were you expecting from this incident? If this teacher is a rapist, then they must lock him up(with plenty of vaseline) with other rapists in jail.
Michael
I get ya.Thanks.
VAN DIE KAAP
A senior Cape Town police officer is facing a crimen injuria case for calling a security guard a “baboon”.
He allegedly offered to buy the guard a car if he dropped the charges “Do you know that this is Cape Town? Here whites play the guitar and baboons (blacks) dance,” Senior Superintendent Christian Tron is alleged to have told security guard Bulelani Mgcewu in March.
On Friday Tron’s case was postponed for the third time by the Khayelitsha magistrate’s court.
Mgcewu told Sowetan it all began on March 18 when the accused attended another case at the court. He said Tron parked his car in a bay designated for the magistrate.
“I asked him to move his car. But he said: ‘Do you know that this is Cape Town. Here, whites play the guitar and baboons (blacks) dance’,” Mgcewu told Sowetan.
On Friday prosecutor Bheki Hlela asked for a postponement. He told magistrate Gary Harmse that the prosecutor had recused himself because Mgcewu and other witnesses are his colleagues.
South Africa as we know it, blacks doubling up as punchbags.
http://legacy.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100915040142505C667288
It seems so simple when you are an outsider! A simple case of a poor victimised learner at an all white local school run by a bunch of Victorian Draconians but anyway……… Any happening taken out of context can be blown right out of proportion and there seems to be a lot of hot air out there.
The learners in question do have a LONG history of behavioural problems both at our school and previous schools. It should also be noted these issues DO NOT stem from our school. We at Roosevelt High School have informed the relevant authorities and investigations into their home circumstances have begun.
It is our duty to educate, mould and prepare learners for the ‘real world’ Sometimes we go above and beyond the call of duty to protect learners from external factors or even from themselves. We have tried to protect them as much as possible but for some learners the distinction between truth and reality is very blurred.
Not once, or ever, have we at Roosevelt High denied access to the bathroom of any learner. Secondly, we have NEVER stopped the girls from writing any exams or assessments – this choice was made by their father (or the man who claims to be their legal guardian) – our records reflect differently.
We have tried and tried to arrange initial meetings with the ‘father’ of the girls but he has never bothered to respond. He, instead tried to use tactics of intimidation by threatening our staff with the police; the education department; various government departments; and related NGO’s. These facts are documented at school and a dossier of information with numerous interesting bits of information has been forwarded to the MEC. This dossier makes for exceptionally interesting reading and when we at RHS say that the matter is sub judice, members of the general public should be enlightened enough to know that there are criminal matters under investigation – criminal matters NOT related to the school or any of the staff attached to the school.
Nowhere in our code of conduct does it say that learners are PROHIBITED from interacting with educators – general good manners and good upbringing in any culture advocate that when an educator (an adult) is presenting a lesson, learners should participate either by listening if required – or by commenting or responding – if required. Effective teaching and learning can only take place in disciplined and well- organised environments. If chaos reigns supreme and learners are encouraged to challenge, interrupt and disrupt lessons then we may as well throw a text book at learners and see them in the final exam in December.
You also quote that our code of conduct limits excessive displays of affection – yes we do. This is merely to protect 12-year-old learners from advances of up to 20 year olds. Some learners enter high school before their 13th birthdays and yes, we, as do all schools in the area, have learners that are in excess of 20 years of age as part of our enrolment. So, we as a school management team and as parents and educators do enforce limited physical contact between learners. Perhaps you have not noticed that sexually transmitted diseases and HIV infections, not to mention teenage pregnancies are on the up and up, especially in the school going populations of young South Africans.
Roosevelt respects diversity and honours all languages (we are in fact one of the most diverse schools around having more than 35 different languages and cultures represented) which are represented at all levels of staff, management, governance, learner population and support staff.
We are also proud of the fact that the vast majority of our learners do not relocate to the UK as Wasps – but rather stay in South Africa and make a meaningful contribution to the societies that educated and nurtured them.
I would also like to point out that our SGB (School Governing Body) is representative of the school population. And that certain surnames do not necessarily mean that the individual is white and Afrikaans. A person who is truly South African, will know and understand that there are many surnames that appear to be Afrikaans and white are not really as they seem. Does it surprise you that TILLY MICHAELS is a black, single parent from Soweto; perhaps you should have checked your facts first!
Yes, it is true that our current SGB chair is a white male. It should be noted that he is the only white person on the SGB and it should also be noted that the previous 2 chairperson have not been white. I would also like to point out that he was democratically elected by his peers.
The biggest question I would like to ask is how discipline and classroom management issues translate into racial and constitutional issues. If the constitution protects lying learners and learners that purposefully, falsely implicate respected members of our community then perhaps we need to examine certain aspects of this democratic tool.
Any sane member of our society knows that life at high school is tough and that unless educators are just as tough, there will be no one willing to educate your children in years to come. You stick to quoting the constitution selectively in and out of context and leave us to educate your children, perhaps they too will be as successful as the vast majority of learners from all races, creeds, languages and backgrounds that have passed through our halls.
Anyway, enough from me. I, a white male at this ‘racist’ institution in Johannesburg will now go home to my non-white partner and prepare for the next wave of abuse from the ill-informed general public that have armchair Masters degrees & PhD qualifications in pedagogy and comparative education methods as well from those who clearly know so much better!
PS: As a Maths and Science educator I had to draw on the skills of a non-white English home language teacher to assist me with grammar, sarcasm and irony – thank goodness we still have skilled individuals to teach our children………………
PSS: The same non-white educator refuses to have the very same learner in class because of her blatant disrespect and aggression displayed in class.
S
Sheldon Smith – Roosevelt High JHB says:
September 21, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Hey Sheldon,
“The biggest question I would like to ask is how discipline and classroom management issues translate into racial and constitutional issues.”
When it’s is racist and unconstitutional.
p.s You seem to have surrounded yourself with some very helpful “non-whites”.
p.p.s How does forwarding a dossier to the MEC make it sub-judice?
Sheldon Smith: your response does not instill much confidence in the school and in its teaching staff. Making innuendos about criminal charges, then hiding behind the sub judice rule (which was in effect abolished by the SCA in the Midi-TV case), taking an overtly defensive and self-righteous tone, making “some-f-my-best-friends-are-black kind of arguments about the SGB, and the failure to address the actual issue and no attempt to deny the allegation that ateacher told a student that hshe was not allowed to use her own language at school – all this leave the suspicion with a reasonable reader that somehing is fishy and that the school and its teachers are not really the kind of people who reflect critically about their role in a multicultural society. This might be wrong. The school might have acted in an exeplarary fashion. But in communicating their view, they are doing a terrible job and they are leaving the suspicion that they are deeply conservative, completely blind to their own prejudices and invested in “othering” those who do not conform to their world view. Once again, this might be the worng impression but this is nevertheless the impression created by the original statement from the SGB and also by this post.
Pierre De Vos says:
September 21, 2010 at 13:06 pm
Hey Pierre,
“some-f-my-best-friends-are-black”
Correction please – Sheldon’s best friends are not Black.
They are non-white!
Fact – if ANY learner had done what she had done, we would punish them in exactly the same way.
And we will do it again!
I invite you to pose any valid question/s and I will respond to any queries you may have to the best of my ability.
S
Oh yeah and unashamedly some of my best friends are black – perhaps a cliché for you but a reality for me!
Sheldon – I think it is definitely admirable that you offered up an explanation in this blog, but it seems to me that the primary concern has gone unanswered. The main question in my mind is whether or not you allow students to speak Xhosa to one another when they are talking amonst themselves. Do you forbid languages other than English in the classroom? This type of policy is, in my view, very difficult to justify. But I would love to hear your opinion on this.
I do have the utmost respect for educators such as yourself, and I think that you often do not get the praise you deserve for running schools which provide an excellent educational foundation to a wide variety of children.
@ Sheldon
While we admire your offer, you can achieve more by just answering Tracy’s comment.
Lastly, the term “non-white” is offensive. Just think of non-members.
Waging a war of attrition against schoolgirls, digging into their backgrounds?
Eish!
Hey T
Thanks
I can not count the number of times per day that I pass a duo of Nigerian boys or some Zimbabwean or Angolan learners or Eastern European learners speaking to each other in their mother tongue. Let alone the learners that we have from each of the 11 official language groups including English and Afrikaans children.
I even listen with great interest when, in my Maths class, a group of coloured girls explain the work to a weaker peer in Afrikaans. (Maths in Afrikaans is like Greek to me…….)
We have proved over the years that we are an institution that embraces difference and diversity but we will not budge on code of conduct and discipline structure.
The issue – in our opinion is one of discipline and not one of language or race. In fact if we banned languages other than English in the school – we would be as quiet as the adjacent cemetary!
We are a school that encourages learners to maintain their culture while working toward a common goal – that of success in Matric. Until government allocates us extra resources to employ the extra staff needed for full language diversity our hands are tied. This said at a time in our history (2010) where Mathematics, Physical Science, History, Biology, etc etc etc matric papers are only available in either English or Afrikaans. We have no choice but to expose the learners and matric candidates to excellence in English so as to be best prepared for the Matric Exams.
It should also be noted that many of the educators at Roosevelt High are not native English speakers (we have educators from all over the country and all over world) and they too have to put in many extra hours ensuring that there is no ambiguity in the knowledge and skills taught.
I remain confident in saying that the issue is one of discipline, where the said learner has a history of passing derogatory and degrading remarks aimed at educators and peers.
Forcing her to keep these comments to herself or not to speak is not an infringement of her constitutional rights but merely a tool to protect the rights of 35 other learners. Not mentioning the rights of the educator concerned.
A sage once said that with rights come responsibility. Language and hate speech are the cause of many conflicts the world over. Using your language irresponsibly and to further your sinister causes is not a human right it is a gross abuse of other’s rights!
S
Sheldon,
Well that all sounds great. And, if it’s true, it does make this seem like more of an individual discipline problem than a constitutional violation. But i’m still a bit confused.
What exactly is it alleged that this girl did? Is the allegation that she said something insulting in Xhosa? If so, how did the teacher know it was insulting if she doesn’t speak Xhosa? I don’t think it would be fair to presume the comment was insulting merely because the learner had a history of ill-discipline.
Thanks for engaging with us to try and better understand this issue. I think the school would have been better served if it had been more open about this from the start.
M
Hey Michael
All of your points are valid – the issue is more one of disruption of teaching and learning than one of language.
Secondly, we have a statement from a reliable source [no longer at the school] that the girl in question wanted to push the issue as far as possible to see how much she could ‘spice’ up the issue and she is now worried that the situation is out of control. This statement documented by school authorities and submitted to the relevant legal bodies as well.
We had also received intelligence that her peers and classmates had reported to the grade head on previous occasions that they [those in the class that understood isiXhosa] were tired of the individuals’ insults and threats.
As for us digging into their past, this was not initiated by us, the investigations are being done by a task team under the instruction of the MEC. These investigations have alerted other authorities based on what the girls had said about their home lives and past happenings.
Contrary to public belief, we have protected these learners as much as possible. Their lies and distortions of the truth are merely sensational front-page stuff.
Just over 600 of the approx. 750[note 1] strong learner body have signed a petition wanting to know what their rights are because their educators are often out of class dealing with these individuals. Educators have been in endless meetings with departmental officials, educators have spent endless hours defending themselves against untrue and unwarranted charged laid by the ‘father’ – All of this reinforced when the case was thrown out of court because of all of the inconsistencies in the charges against educators at Roosevelt.
All of the charges and accusations based on what the girls had told their ‘father’ even though they do not live with him and even though as far as our records reflect their mother is their guardian?
We as a professional body have the right to be angry – any innocent person would be somewhat annoyed when a parent lays false charges against them. This is happening over and over again. When the parent has no luck with the department of education, he tried the police, where does it stop?
Perhaps it is difficult for members of the public to admit that the school may actually be right and just and that they find it difficult to swallow that they may have the story wrong.
If there are any other issues that I could clarify – I would be more than willing to do so.
Thanks
Sheldon
[note 1] 143 of the learners are in Matric and are not currently at school and have been writing preliminary examinations for the past few weeks – so the number of entries on the petition is potentially higher………..
Tell us more about the intelligence you have received, Sheldon?
Do you have someone undercover?
Brett Nortje says:
September 21, 2010 at 18:28 pm
Hey Brett,
“Do you have someone undercover?”
Of course – the non-whites!
As an educator I am open and willing to learn from your advanced positions on the issue and would appreciate it if you could tell me which terms I could use that would not offend you.
This entire issue is not about me and as such I will allow your comments to pass.
Should you have legitimate questions based on fact and actual happenings at the school I will gladly answer.
If this is just a forum for you to attempt at discrediting me then I would choose not to respond to you.
Have a good evening
Sheldon Smith Roosevelt High says:
September 21, 2010 at 21:09 pm
Hey Sheldon,
“As an educator I am open and willing to learn from your advanced positions on the issue and would appreciate it if you could tell me which terms I could use that would not offend you.”
If as an educator, exposed to people from across our racial and social spectrum, you are unaware that “non-white” is offensive, then what hope is there for the next generation whom you prepare?
Your comment September 21, 2010 at 12:30 pm, was loaded with various attacks that were unwise, inappropriate and not called for – that against the background in defence of the school which is already under the microscope.
The learner may well be problematic but given this it’s hardly likely that the school is blameless.
Maggs,
Firstly, my main function is as an educator of mathematics and science not of language and semantics. Issues of race, gender, sexuality, discrimination etc are dealt with in the prescribed subject of Life Orientation. If you find the terminology that I use offensive – please accept a sincere apology from me as the main focus of my job is to nurture and develop mathematical and scientific reasoning.
I would challenge you to visit the school and see for yourself what work we do. We never have cause to debate the use terminology like ‘non-white’ because race is simply a non-issue. Our staff; learners; management and community have always co-existed harmoniously.
Discipline, however, is an issue – an on going issue and I doubt that we would waver from the enforcement thereof.
Perhaps you should come in and read the full reports and speak with others that have been affected by these individuals before passing judgement. Or if you asked me direct questions I could be of more help. There have been enough conversations that have lead nowhere and I personally would like to see the issue resolved.
I apologise if I have offended you in anyway and I would urge you visit us and see for yourself what makes our school diverse and see exactly what it is that allows us to grow from strength to strength. We deal with humans and unlike other manufactured commodities we can not guarantee their strength or performance on a given day – try us – you may be surprised!
As for the learner being problematic vs. the school being blameless, I would hasten to add that in this case the school has followed prescribed procedure and is for the most part blameless.
I would welcome and impromptu visit from you at any time.
Thanks and good night
Sheldon
Mr Smith
As you have probably discovered, you are not going to get any empathy or support from the human rights, child rights, blame the whites brigade. Frankly, between the undisciplined kids, education department and problem parents, I don’t know why people go into teaching – a calling indeed. The long-term solution to this problem is for people such as you, who could no doubt earn double your salary in the private sector, to leave teaching. At some point, even the “privileged” schools will become starved of people who can teach such essential subjects as science and maths and then, and only then, will the parents and “experts” be forced to change their tune and create an environment in which worthwhile teaching can be conducted.
Sheldon Smith Roosevelt High says:
September 21, 2010 at 21:54 pm
Hey Sheldon,
I have no doubt that yours like many schools makes a serious effort at doing an exemplary job under very challenging circumstances.
And I have no doubt too that some learners will push the boundaries beyond that which is tolerable within the learning environment which is an age old phenomenon – this can be effectively managed within the framework established by our Schools Act, the SACE guidelines and the relevant policies.
I am confident that many, many educators do their best under very trying, often thankless conditions – much the same as the police, health professionals and civil servants in various sectors.
That said (and setting aside the seriously racist undertones within your comments) the issue, constitutionally speaking, is whether learners can be prevented from speaking their home language in a free discussion with other learners – the general sense I get is that the answer is no.
@ Sheldon
“Educators have been in endless meetings with departmental officials, educators have spent endless hours defending themselves against untrue and unwarranted charged laid by the ‘father’ –”
Sheldon, while we respect your pedagogical efforts, your whinging earns you no sympathy. One thing schools like yours can learn from the less fortunate “township” schools to which most Africans are consigned is that education is a terrain of struggle. It is pretentious and racist for white run schools to keep right on teaching while less fortunate schools are caught up in the struggle. Elites may sneer, but the slogan of the students that helped win our freedom remains apposite: FREEDOM FIRST, EDUCATION LATER!
Thanks,
@ Shedon
One thing that those of us still young to remember our high schools days is this: children do not lie, and they will usually appreciate their teachers; efforts. I am not saying there are no “bad apples.” But you will find that, generally speaking, if you treat children – of any race – with respect, their little minds are thirsty for the knowledge and wisdom only you can impart.
(I have always though William Golding’s Lord of the Flies was the most insidious book ever written – yet it was prescribed as my matric set work!)
In response to Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
When you speak of ‘township’ and or rural educations, spare a thought for the 2 accused educators who spend most of their school holidays living with and working with children in far flung areas, children who have limited access to resources and facilities.
Both Venter and v d Westhuizen have spent countless weeks assisiting HDSA learners get in touch with universities, colleges and other tertiary institutions. Empowering kids with essential tools like CV’s and the like. Showing them how to prepare for an interview and generally assisiting them in appying for bursaries. This done during their ‘holidays’
Rural education is tough enough and these educators along with countless others from Roosevelt and nearby have sacrificed much to assist learners that do not have accces to the internet or to literature released by bursars and tertiary institutions.
They along with many other educators do this selflessly and with one common goal.
If you would like further information on the projects on which they have worked and would like to speak with local authorities in areas where they have assisted, please respond and I will gladly put you in touch with the relevant people.
@ Sheldon
“When you speak of ‘township’ and or rural educations, spare a thought for the 2 accused educators who spend most of their school holidays living with and working with children in far flung areas, children who have limited access to resources and facilities. ”
Shedlon, these two may do excellent work on a day to day basis. But many of us progressives are suspicious of ostensibly apolitical “do-gooder” whites, who patronisingly claim to “help” poor blacks. These people, being typical LIBERALS, refuse to subordinate themselves to the discipline of the ANC. During the struggle, LIBERALS white teachers would sometimes try to keep right on teachinhg, even after progressive youth movements had declared that the schools be closed down, or burned down, in some cases.
Thanks
Every South African has a responsibility to assist in his or her own way.
If you should find that these activities are suspicious and sinister then it is your prerogative to feel that way. Just as I know nothing about you and that which you do or have done, I prefer to reserve judgement.
My final word on the situation is that if a matter like this should arise again – in which a learner uses foul or inappropriate language, engages in hate speech IN ANY LANGUAGE or makes negative or derogatory remarks related to the gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, physical appearance, race or culture of ANY stakeholder at this institution, we will respond in exactly the same way.
We shall, however, remain supportive, accepting and unaffected by those stakeholders who choose to communicate with peers in ANY other language be it official or unofficial.
@ Sheldon
I suspect you might have crossed the line by referring to the man involved as a “father” which sound loaded in a way. I do not know the circumstances of this family but I doubt it is appropriate to question this man’s ” locus standi”
May be I missed your response, Are pupils allowed to speak any language other than english during school hours?
I must say that I find the responses to Sheldon’s posts from everyone on here quite surprising. Here is someone who has tried to inform and engage and yet all everyone has done is attack him about being racist.
I ask the question that I asked earlier in the comments section: Would everyone be making such a fuss if the learner in question was a white child who had spoken Afrikaans or some other European language?
To Gwebecimele
Hi thanks for the message.
We have always embraced diverse language use at school. We have a simple understanding that classes be conducted in English by all educators [except Language lessons of course] and that general or public discussions be held in English.
There are countless cases on a daily basis where learners [and educators] engage in one on one or small grouped interactions, converse and communicate both in and out of the classroom situation in as many as 30 different languages.
The issue at hand is not the use of isiXhosa in class, as a one sided report suggests, but a series of abusive comments aimed at educators and passive and non-confrontational learner peers in class.
The abuse of ANY language, official or unofficial, in a classroom situation in order to intimidate or undermine peers or educators is something that should not be tolerated.
Although any stakeholder has the right to communicate with anyone at Roosevelt in his or her chosen language, it should be noted that the learner in question is an award winning and accomplished public speaker. She has a powerful and engaging tone and voice. And yes, she too has the right to communicate as anyone else does but definitely not to the detriment or expense of others.
@ Sheldon
Did u manage to get confirmation and translation of what the learner said, on the day in question?
@ Gwebecimele,
Maybe I am mistaken here, but the school actually tried to address this issue internally with the relevant parties, who refused to engage. They then took this to a whole new level by involving the police, department and media.
Sheldon has already stated that all relevant procedures were followed, so I think it is a little disingenuous to continue to nitpick at this situation. Sheldon has answered the question that everyone has asked and now it appears that you are still trying to catch him out.
There is more to this situation than one isolated incident, as Sheldon has already indicated and from all appearances, Roosevelt is actually doing a lot more than many schools in attempting to create a culturally transformed learning environment.
Our local school has immense problems with high failure rates, racism between Black and Coloured learners, Black and Coloured on White racism, poor attendance, ineffective teachers, lack of facilities and learning materials etc. The list is endless. But you would rather take time to focus on this incident.
Yes – the translation was accurate and was received in the form of a complaint from one of a few isiXhosa speaking learners in the class. The whistle-blower was disgusted with what was said about other girls and the educator. [This was also reported on previous occasions by Xhosa speaking learners]
It would not be fair of me to include the exact translation but it contains foul language and derogatory remarks aimed at others.
So the question posed from our side is: Do we blindly allow anyone to use foul language, say unacceptable things, and pass negative comments just because these comments are made in one of our official languages or do we put a general halt on the kind of language and type of words used. Yet again the issue is NOT one of race, NOT one of culture, NOT one of gender, NOT one of discrimination, NOT one of corporal punishment; it is simply one of a learner not respecting the boundaries of OTHER’S FUNDEMENTAL rights. All of which translates to a behavioural matter and none of the aforementioned issues!
Just as the constitutional court is tasked with matters of legal rights, we as a school are tasked with ensuring a safe; disciplined and structured environment in which teaching and learning can take place. As the constitutional court will deal with guilty parties, our mandate is to deal with educational and behavioural issues in consultation with parents and the DoE. And this we will continue to do. If we relent, we may as well close our gates this afternoon!
The learner has a right [as so many other have indicated] to speak in which ever language she chooses. But should she infringe on the rights of any one of our learner, educator, administrator or support staff, we reserve the right to then follow the prescribed disciplinary steps. Which we are confident have been followed to the letter.
So yet again I would welcome anyone to challenge us on the procedure and our disciplinary measures and would confidently say that should she or ANY other learner or staff member do the same again – we will act in the same way AGAIN and AGAIN. We are as a school here to ensure that education continues.
@ Samantha and Sheldon
We must congratulate Sheldon for his/her efforts to communicate with us in this blog but we must equally make him/her aware of her unfortunate remarks such as non-white ( nothing to do with the subject you teach but general awareness) and questioning of the “father’s” locus standi.
As far as the case against the pupil goes, we do not have enough facts but the digging of her past( previously dealt with) to settle a current matter is suspicious. This is also common in the workplace where digging of travel claim, tel bills and access records( normally ignored) usually come very handy when management want to settle scores. Its like disciplining your dog 3 days after the event.
Anyway, Sheldon I appreciate your responses and I hope you can only improve doing a sterling job. I hope you appreciate that as a country we are at a point where we need to raise the bar when it comes to accontability, justice, fairness etc.
@ Sheldon
“It would not be fair of me to include the exact translation but it contains foul language and derogatory remarks aimed at others”
It seems to me that the school is attempting to repress the wounded discourse of resistance to colonial and apartheid repression. Indeed, the righteous anger of the oppressed may sometimes be articulated in words that are offensive to the ears of liberals. (Hence the hysteria about Cmd Malema calling a member of the imperialist press a “bloody bastard.”) But until we have complete TRANSFORMATION, whites will have to learn to tolerate the anger of the masses!
Thanks.
Samantha says:
September 22, 2010 at 11:29 am
Hey Sam,
Are you one of the born again South Africans who believes that racism was X-ed out in 1994 and that the systemic and structural impact of the iniquitous era is “all in the mind”?
It does sound though that the school has done a fair amount to deal with the situation that it finds itself in. It sure sounds like Little Miss Malema has got everyone rattled.
And Dworky, in true form, has got Sheldon rattled.
But sub-judice and non-whites takes the cake!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
September 22, 2010 at 11:56 am
Hey Dwork,
“Hence the hysteria about Cmd Malema calling a member of the imperialist press a ‘bloody bastard’.”
That is rubbish!
It is a pity this issue is not about corporal punishment, as it seems to me everybody would have been much better off if one of the female members of staff had taken this girl to a bathroom and made sure she could not sit for a couple of days.
Sheldon, does Roosevelt High have an admissions policy? A lot of the school’s problems might have been obviated had it had one…
Brett Nortje says:
September 22, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Hey Dufus,
Corporal punishment?
But you may have a point.
Principal beaten, locked out of school
Sep 22, 2010 11:11 AM | By Sapa
A school principal was beaten with sticks and locked out of his school by eNanda residents, KwaZulu-Natal police said on Wednesday.
“There is a case of assault that was opened by a man at Siyathuthuka High School in eNanda. He alleges that he was assaulted with sticks at the gate of the school yesterday [Tuesday],” Colonel Jay Naicker said.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article671430.ece/Principal-beaten-locked-out-of-school
Education department shuts down KZN school
Sep 22, 2010 10:45 AM | By Sapa
KwaZulu-Natal police are patrolling a school in Mtubatuba that was shut down by the education department after violent protests and vandalism on the property.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article671357.ece/Education-department-shuts-down-KZN-school
Hello All
I am a teacher at Roosevelt High. Our school is extremely diverse (as you have read). In my previous lesson i was listening to the childrens conversations. Aside from the occasional bit of English I did not understand a word. This however was not a problem. I am entirely comfortable hearing people speak in other languages.
I enjoy observing human interactions. People obviously enjoy conversing in their home language, it is more comfortable for them. It is nice to watch as well because in this relaxed state we see cultural nuances coming out and this is beautiful, it is what makes us human. I conduct my lessons in English as it is the only medium that is understood by all attending my lessons (and the only language i speak other than German). I know i am not alone in allowing learners to speak in whatever language they choose (obviously again questions and discussions which involve the whole class should be in English so as not to exclude anybody). If you had to walk into any class or around the school during break you would be witness to this open diversity.
I have worked closely with all the educators involved for almost 3 years now. Ms Venter, Ms VD West and Mr Smith are some of the most passionate and dedicated teachers (and workers for that matter) that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.
Unlike a lot of the people who are pointing fingers, talking about cultural acceptance etc. these teachers are living it. They are on the front line every day, helping children “be all they can be”. A signed petition of 600 children should give some indication as to the mis-representation that the school has been subjected to.
I wish all of you could meet these teachers. They have all been an inspiration to me. They have all helped me become a better teacher through the advice and help they have given me. If you spoke to the children they would tell you the same (if this whole fight was about the children in the first place it suprises me that the opinions of the other children at the school have not been heard thus far).
Anyone with an objective view on the situation would notice that the arguement seems entirely one-sided, which it is. Because of all the red tape, the school is unable to release an official statement. At the same time however it is this same red tape which is protecting the twins right to dignity. If the school were to release the information on these twins, the headline of the Star that day would have been far more grim.
This mud slinging has gone on too long and has been a waste of time for a school that is run extremely well. If the same effort had been placed in reaching out to disadvantaged schools the positive impact would have been far greater.
Finally: Mr De Vos. You seem to be an educated man and for someone who works at an institution of such a high standard such as UCT, I would expect better. If a student handed you the one-sided article you chose to publish wouldn’t you criticise it for being somewhat baseless. Im sure you would ask for further inspection. It seems to me you took the opportunity to put across your political ideals and in the process made our hole just a little harder to climb out of.
You dont know me and i dont expect this to have much impact, as it is much more fun to toy around with the racism issue. Those of you who are in support of the school… it is not in vain. We are all that we say we are. We are walking the walk. We are DIVERSITY!!!
Thank you for reading
Mr. Sir (My nick-name from the kids)
ps. pls excuse grammatical errors… i’m not an English teacher.
Hey guys – slowly!
Corp Punishment went out with the last lot! Speaking off the record – I have really valued your points and have taken a lot in. Not to mention how much I have learned from our back and forth postings………
And in all honesty – yes I used to hit learners – in the dark days. But believe it or not I have better classroom discipline now than ever before.
Instead of a stick being the buffer between educator and learner I believe that the buffer or link is a mutual respect and understanding. Sometimes the ground is a bit shaky but hey we are just teachers and they are just kids. 99,999% of learners [even at Roosevelt - for those who don’t like the idea of a white minority school in an ex-white suburb] are great kids – fantastic to work with and keep us coming back for more.
Education has challenges on a minute by minute basis and with community support and engagement we can truly transform our society starting in our classroom.
I have so enjoyed the chats – and postings
Thanks
@ Sheldon
Keep posting, our resident facilitator Dworky will keep you informed.
@ Mr Sir and Sheldon
Thanks for entering such an antagonistic forum so willingly, and providing answers to people who were, I’m sure, mainly concerned that children were being treated unfairly and forbidden from speaking their home languages at school. I for one, certainly appreciate the effort. It seems like you both care deeply about the children you teach, and I’m comforted at the thought that there are teachers like you doing the best you can and caring about the work. There are a lot of other schools who do not show compassion for the young people in their care, and this was in all likelihood the concern originally driving this blog post. Best of luck to you both! Hopefully this matter will be put to bed soon.
I’d also like to thank Sheldon and Mr Sir for engaging with us here. I think we all have a much fuller understanding of the issue as a result. I just have a couple of points to make.
First, we need to acknowledge that we will not sort out the truth of these allegations in this forum. The school’s version seems plausible, but so does the girl’s. We will have to wait for a proper investigation.
Second, nothing you’ve said changes the constitutional principles that would apply if the girl’s story were true (and i don’t think you’ve suggested that they would).
Third, I agree that the media probably could have provided a more balanced report.
But, fourth, I am not convinced that the School had to remain silent. I don’t think it would affect the dignity of the student for the school to state its version of events. There is certainly no general legal principle preventing the school from talking about the issue. Maybe there is some internal document that requires them to remain silent? I think the debate would have been much more closely related to the facts if the school had given its version from the beginning.
Fifth, I agree that raising the past behaviour of the girls is dangerous. It may be that this is a pattern of bad behaviour on their part. But we are concerned with an individual incident here. Surely, even if a model student swore at a teacher or fellow student, they would be disciplined. Bringing up the past behaviour clouds the issue, and i don’t think it aids the discussion.
But again, thanks for participating.
M
Michael Bishop says:
September 22, 2010 at 16:53 pm
Hey Michael,
Up to four pretty much sums it up.
Five however seems stretched out – surely a student who goes off the blink once can be corrected vs one who is generally problematic (and presumably efforts have been made at correction).
But one thing for sure and that is cry racism and people get flummoxed, the ability to reason or think rationally seems to fly out the window.
Where’s Ali G when we need him most?
Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
September 22, 2010 at 11:57 am
Firstly, you listed my second post in your response to me, so it took me a while to work out what you were on about.
No, I’m not a born-again South African who believes that race is no longer an issue. The point I was making is that there would not have been such a hue and cry if this were not about a formerly White school and a Black learner.
Why are we so quick to turn an issue into one of race merely because one of the main protagonists is White? Do you believe that every White person is inherently racist? Do you believe that people of colour are incapable of being racist? I hear more racism (and xenophobia, I might add) from Coloured people and Black people on a daily basis than what comes from White people.
But perhaps the thing that galled me most about the attack on Sheldon, was the fact that White people are constantly called upon to “prove” that they are not racist – much like you have done with me. So, what happens is that White people, in trying to limit this “racist” thinking, over-compensate by using the “I have friends of colour” statements. And, as is evidenced by the comments that followed, even this is criticised.
And guess what, inasmuch as you might find the term non-white offensive, I find it equally offensive that as a White person, I am automatically relegated to the “racist” class, as do many of the White people I know. As I have before on this site, just because I differ in opinion with people, or because I am not culturally astute enough to know what does or doesn’t offend people, does not make me a racist. But people who choose contextualise, and thereby judge my words and actions on the basis of my colour, might very well be.
Samantha says:
September 22, 2010 at 22:50 pm
Hey Sam,
Only Mossad Guy is allowed to do the make-believe thing – it’s copyrighted, patented and exclusively allocated.
Where was it suggested, inferred, indicated, implied in my post that you are racist?
Samantha says:
September 22, 2010 at 22:50 pm
Hey Sam,
Your post is really comical.
For example there was no attack on Sheldon – Sheldon’s posts was ripped to pieces as should happen in robust discussions in Pierre’s blogs.
There are other spaces for gentler discussions like http://universalhealing.starstuffs.com/healing_prayer_list.html
hey maggs,
stop flirting with samantha; she’s already spoken for (married to the DA)
btw,
it is a well known and universally accepted fact that, all persons opposed to referenda and the recall of political rejects, are in fact secretly opposed to democracy, equality, non-racialism, non-sexism and a whole host of other progressive humanist concepts
(if you doubt this, just ask any person who stands for true democracy, equality, non-racialism, non-sexism and a whole host of other progressive humanist concepts…they’ll tell you, for sure)
now go sleep, it’s late
@ Maggs,
I started off answering your question as to whether I was “one of the born again South Africans who believes that racism was X-ed out in 1994 and that the systemic and structural impact of the iniquitous era is “all in the mind”?” and then got a little carried away.
It wasn’t so much that everyone called Sheldon a racist, but that you referred to his post as having “racist undertones” and Pierre accused him of using the “some of my friends are black” statements iro the SGB. Not to mention the brouhaha over the “non-white” comment.
Dworky’s posts don’t count because he is a bit of a lunatic, although new posters here might not realise that one cannot take him seriously. Don’t tell him I said that!!!
My rant may have been a little over the top in the context of this discussion and also, on this site, but I do still feel that people generally are very quick to attribute racist motives to much of what White people have to say.
However, since Lindelani did his disappearing act, the racial commentary on this site has certainly diminished to a great extent.
@ Do you believe that every White person is inherently racist?
No, but I firmly believe we should start with a presumption of racism on each occasion that a black person accuses a white person of racism.
@ Do you believe that people of colour are incapable of being racist?
Yes, black people have many talents; and they certainly have a wonderous sense of musical musical beat. But they are not capable of racism as such. (Ask PdV to explain. It has something to do with racism being about structured power relations, not irrational subjective preference.
Thanks.
Hey Sam,
“I do still feel that people generally are very quick to attribute racist motives to much of what White people have to say”.
I am curious. These are just names on the internet so how do we know who are the White people?
p.s. If you have not yet got to understand why being referred to as “non-white” is possibly the most ugly and provocative of descriptions I suggest that you mull over that for a looooooong while.
p.p.s Dworky does a good initiation ceremony. Let the freshies suffer until they die miserably or they can do a “Dear Aunt Agatha” thing.
So, Maggs, if Sam had said “According to the laws of the land you are only allowed to benefit from affirmative action if you are non-white” that would possibly be the most ugly and provocative of descriptions and you would suggest that she mulls over that for a looooooong while?
If Sam had said “According to the admission policy of UCT if they want a place at the university young white applicants would have to have higher marks than they would if they were non-white” that would possibly be the most ugly and provocative of descriptions and you would suggest that she mulls over that for a looooooong while?
etc
etc
etc
Interesting. Issues of fact become issues of motive.
Sheldon, I see everyone has decided to be nice to you.
Well, I think gathering intelligence on kids and digging into their backgrounds and subjecting them to administrative punishment that drags on for weeks when a swift klap would suffice is wrong. It offends my sense of fair play. Christian people do not resolve differences that way.
I think you have lost the plot never mind a sense of perspective when you start thinking in terms of ‘gathering intellligence’ on a kid or digging through their backgrounds for ammunition for use at a hearing.
I am not blind to the way normal social interactions are bureaucratised in socialist states. Letting people run into the administrative forcefield of the monolithic state is a good way to discourage shows of individualism, if you are of the statist-collectivist persuasion.
So, the collectivists remove disciplinary power from the hands of individuals with the promise of administrative justice in their endeavour to turn schools into islands of moral relativity where kids can be weaned off the values and beliefs they were brought up with.
Do you really want to play their game?
I am glad this whole incident happened because it forces people to think about what is happening in this country’s schools and take stock of the collectivists’ experiments in social engineering.
You ought to have let the facts lead the issue, though, and remembered that you were dealing with kids not some faceless adversary in a legal battle.
Brett
Perhaps you have forgotten that 2 kids under the age of 11 killed another child in Britain a few years ago. Most hi-jackings are perpetrated by youngsters under the age of 20.
A very small % of the kids at our school have criminal tendencies and criminal links and yes I have had young outsiders storm into the school with knives and on occasion with guns. Children that they were!
Not to mention the drug dealers; muggers and sexual predators that lurk in the streets preying on innocent learners at our school. Those outsiders that we have caught are all ‘kids’ – kids with guns, kids with knives – kids selling drugs – kids?
And when school children commit crimes by laying false charges against educators by lying to authorities, do we forgive them?, put them in detention and carry on……. That is – if we still have a job after the media and others have ruined our careers.
Read the press – kids do commit crimes; high school is not a place of nursery rhymes and sing alongs but rather a tough environment for all stakeholders.
If learners commit crimes that impact adults they should be at the mercy of the correct judicial and punitive authorities – if guilty.
As I have said before, come and spend a day with us. Or any high school for that matter and see what ‘kids’ get up to.
In any disciplinary hearing or disciplinary structure there is a space for extenuating and mitigating circumstances. Sometimes home; social or environmental situations do have an impact on the way in which teenagers behave. Most, however, are able to rise above their situations and take their place in society.
The reason we have reams and reams of admin & paperwork is simply because that when we approach the department without the relevant [endless] documentation – they will not even see us, let alone discuss the issue.
As for the Christian reference, we all suffered under Christian National Education and propaganda – we like to believe that we are a secular school with multi-cultural beliefs and values. It would be unconstitutional of us to enforce or follow any one belief, path of thought, culture or doctrine.
Thanks
Brett Nortje says:
September 23, 2010 at 10:24 am
Hey Brett,
It seems that the 100% concentrate wears of rather quickly on you try a double dose.
Maybe Sheldon, as our resident maths teacher, will help you out by teaching your brain cell first to divide and then to multiply.
@ Brett
“Sheldon, I see everyone has decided to be nice to you.”
Brett, speak for yourself, and for Maggs.
I deplore all forms of RACISM. We must focus more and more on schools like Roosevelt!
Traditionally “black” schools can sort out their own problems. Pierre has done us all a great favour by highlighting the abominations at Roosevelt!
Thank you, Pierre!
Dworky, if Sheldon is a maths teacher I’m freaking Einstein! Or, is one of the joys of OBE that one need not be able to add 2 + 2?
Hello? Sheldon? Do you guys play ‘connect the dots in OBE?
Sheldon Smith Roosevelt High says:
September 22, 2010 at 13:34 pm
“Corp Punishment went out with the last lot!”
And
“yes I used to hit learners – in the dark days”
Then
Sheldon Smith Roosevelt High says:
September 23, 2010 at 11:56 am
Brett
” 2 kids under the age of 11 killed another child in Britain a few years ago. Most hi-jackings are perpetrated by youngsters under the age of 20″
And
” I have had young outsiders storm into the school with knives and on occasion with guns.Not to mention the drug dealers; muggers and sexual predators that lurk in the streets preying on innocent learners at our school. Those outsiders that we have caught are all ‘kids’ – kids with guns, kids with knives – kids selling drugs – kids?”
And
“school children commit crimes by laying false charges against educators by lying to authorities”
“put them in detention”
And
“kids do commit crimes”
“disciplinary hearing”
“reams and reams of admin & paperwork”
And
“we all suffered under Christian National Education and propaganda – we like to believe that we are a secular school with multi-cultural beliefs and values”
So, Sheldon….Tell me how shrugging off the yoke of “Christian National Education and propaganda” and “multi-cultural beliefs and values” are working for this country’s kids?
Dude, can you see the wood for the trees? The big picture?
Brett Nortje says:
September 23, 2010 at 13:07 pm
Hey Brett,
“The big picture?”
Still reading picture stories, eh?
Maggs, I am not ashamed to say I appreciate the great art of Goscinny and Uderzo.
Now, could you engage on the issue (if you can?)?
Brett Nortje says:
September 23, 2010 at 13:21 pm
Hey Brett,
“Now, could you engage on the issue (if you can?)?”
Of course I can and I will.
I think Asterix and co are ill-disciplined terrorists.
And they gain unfair advantage from the magic potion – if the Romans had some of that stuff they would wipe those smug little fellows from the face of the earth.
And you have that gaul to ask if I can engage on the issue!
Another fan, I see. What do you think of the sexist conditioning inherent in their books?
Brett Nortje says:
September 23, 2010 at 13:42 pm
hahahaha.
I think they are very wise.
Anyone who wants to know what it is like to get on the wrong side of a Roman (aka Italian) lady should watch 3rd degree.
Seriously, Maggs, what kind of desensitization to a patriarchal society is that comic?
A chief who gets carried around on a shield (huge symbolism there!) The keeper of knowledge is a grey male.
The women – when we get to see them – are all stay-at-home-moms who gossip the whole day.
The men get pissed, go to war, go hunting.
Could the role modelling be more stereotypical?
I wonder if you realise that “gathering intelligence” is largely dependent on what the girls have told the educators. At least, this is the way schools gather information. How else do you think overworked teachers would be able to “gather intelligence”?
In the original report it stated that the department had reported the matter to Childline. Who do you think was reported? The Department has its own disciplinary process for teachers and so does SACE. I assume that the father was reported to Childline, or some other person connected to the girls.
Sheldon mentioned that the teachers had spent time out of the classroom. How are the constitutional rights of the other learners in their classes being upheld. I often read that teachers should be in the classroom and,clearly, this right was abused by the time these teachers were forced to be out of the classroom. He mentioned the petition from 600 learners about this matter.
In the article in “The Citizen” last Saturday learners came out in support of the teachers and it seems none of them were “white, apartheid-supporting” children. Maybe this gives another side of the story; one which you could acknowledge.
By naming the teachers on the front page of a newspaper the father has infringed on their rights. Their names are in the public arena. Is this fair if they are proved to be minimally to blame for this incident.
I don’t think that this is just a matter of whether the school allows the use of isiXhosa or not. When we speak we use volume, tone, body language, etc. We might not understand the words but understand the intended message anyhow. Could this, perhaps have sparked the incident. Certainly Luthando did NOT talk to explain work to her friend as she claimed! Other learners complained that she was running them down according to the reports. Not only the teacher felt she was being attacked by Luthando in that case. Should we not consider this as well when we are condemning only the teachers?
Brett Nortje says:
September 23, 2010 at 14:27 pm
Homer Simpson and Ali-G make much better role models.
I’m a big Bart fan. Ali-G can say it to the hand.
If only I knew then what an investment hard-cover Asterix’s would turn out to be…
Hi there!
I am a life orientation teacher at Roosevelt High School. After reading your posts the other day I was so infuriated by the way Sheldon and educators as a whole were being accused of racism where in fact there is none to be found. If I said the sky was blue, I would most likely be classified as racist purely because I DARED to refer to colour at all!
An interesting fact: In the 80′s, the word perceived as being the most offensive was the Afrikaans word K-A-K. In the 90′s, the most offensive word was the F word. And most recently? The word RACE.
As for your comments about non-white being offensive, I did a poll in the classes that I saw on the last day of school. By far the majority of learners said that non-white is NOT offensive. In one class 15 learners were present and only two of them felt that the term was offensive, and even they said they were on the fence. That was the biggest number of learners in any class who objected to the term.
The learners went so far as to criticise the “adults” of society for clinging to the notion that everything had to be assosciated with race. They said that they wished people would just “get over it” and “move on”.
Learners said that as long as people cling to the notion of needing retribution South Africa would never be able to move on and embrace a brighter future. I tend to agree.
As for Cassandra’s comment, Bravo! Finally somebody who read between the lines!
So to conclude, the majority of kids today are not racist, the problem lies with the adults and most notably the parents in society who perpetuate this notion.
@ Moolman
“The learners . . . said that they wished people would just “get over it” and “move on”.”
Mr Moolman, I demand that you warn the black learners in your class that:
(a) Denial of the profound and eternal importance of race is itself a form of RACISM.
(b) The best way for blacks to get ahead is to demand AFFIRMATIVE ACTION at every turn
(c) Progressive South Africans find it more convenient to focus on the travails of middle class kids than the plight of the vast majority of poor black kids who, for reasons of class as much as race, get very little education at all, and will hence graduate functionally illiterate and innumerate.
Thanks.
C Moolman says:
September 30, 2010 at 12:34 pm
“I am a life orientation teacher at Roosevelt High School”.
Eish!
@ Moolman
If teachers in your school are not aware of the offensive nature of “non-white” then you must be a genius to expect school kids to be familiar with the term and its implications. Since when do we get guidance from learners/teens or is it only convinient when you want to back up your ignorance.
If you are trying to be a spokesperson for the school, well you are digging a big hole for yourself.
Mr Fassbinder,
While I agree that ethnic origin and culture does play a role in how we perceive the world and lead our daily lives, to take it as far as to claim racism for trying to encourage equality is purely melodramatic and in fact laughable.
Affirmative action has been in place for over fifteen years, and according to the children in my classroom it is enough. They say that those who have wanted to change their lives have done so, the rest are merely using it as an excuse to wait for a handout.
Do I agree? Not necessarily. It is naive to believe that people in rural areas have the same opprtunities to empower themselves as people in bigger cities, a point which we have discussed at length.
But, as I’ve said, these are the learners’ opinions. Your future leaders.
As for your point c, many of our learners are these “poor black kids” to whom you refer. Blame the education system that is in use, not the educators who work themselves to the bone, such as the ones found at Roosevelt High School. Do not blame those educators who are trying to make a difference while having to bow down to the powers that be.
Lastly, I am a Life Orientation teacher at Roosevelt High School, and proudly so.
I pride myself in encouraging the youth to think about the issues at hand in order to decide how they feel and to become independent thinkers and potential leaders in future.
I believe every single teacher at Roosevelt High School and in fact, teachers in general, would say the same. Education is not a profession, it’s a calling.
Regards,
Miss C Moolman
@ Moolman
Firstly Madame Dworky is not a “Mr”.
You say:
“Affirmative action has been in place for over fifteen years, and according to the children in my classroom it is enough. They say that those who have wanted to change their lives have done so, the rest are merely using it as an excuse to wait for a handout.
Do I agree? Not necessarily.”
Soon they will be telling you that ,”the dog ate my homework”
I suspect these kids are repeating the “life orientation teachings”.
@ Gwebecimele
I will not deny that I am unfamiliar and yes, quite possibly ignorant about Apartheid and everything that goes with it. I am from Namibia, where race is not such a big issue.
I wanted to demonstrate the difference between the generations and how the young generation has moved beyond what the older generation clings to so vigorously. I agree that we should never forget about the atrocities of Apartheid and we should learn from it in order to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again. Bearing this in mind I think South Africa will have a great future.
So yes, I base a lot of what I say on the responses from the learners. I learn from them every day. Why don’t you?
Take the time to see what valuable insights they have on the world around them.
Regards,
C Moolman
@Gwebecimele
Please take a look at the Life Orientation syllabus before you pretend to know anything about what I teach learners.
The syllabus contains sections on loving yourself, accepting others for who they are and not discriminating. In this case I would be glad if they did repeat their “life orientation teachings” as you put it.
Maybe you should attend a lesson or two? Seems as though you need to learn not to discriminate and accept other people (and their opinions.)
@ Moolman
“I am from Namibia, where race is not such a big issue.”
Please, please don’t expose yourself.
I also have kids of my own and they do say interesting things but I make it a point that they do get REAL life orientation.
HOW ABOUT THIS ORIENTATION Ms Moolman.
The San are generally assumed to have been the earliest inhabitants of the region. Later inhabitants include the Nama and the Damara or Berg Dama. The Bantu-speaking Ovambo and Herero migrated from the north in about the 14th century A.D.
The inhospitable Namib Desert constituted a formidable barrier to European exploration until the late 18th century, when successions of travelers, traders, hunters, and missionaries explored the area. In 1878, the United Kingdom annexed Walvis Bay on behalf of Cape Colony, and the area was incorporated into the Cape of Good Hope in 1884. In 1883, a German trader, Adolf Luderitz, claimed the rest of the coastal region after negotiations with a local chief. Negotiations between the United Kingdom and Germany resulted in Germany’s annexation of the coastal region, excluding Walvis Bay. The following year, the United Kingdom recognized the hinterland up to 20 degrees east longitude as a German sphere of influence. A region later known as the Caprivi Strip became a part of South West Africa after an agreement on July 1, 1890, between the United Kingdom and Germany. The British recognized that the strip would fall under German administration to provide access to the Zambezi River and German colonies in East Africa. In exchange, the British received the islands of Zanzibar and Heligoland.
German colonial power was consolidated, and prime grazing land passed to white control as a result of the Herero and Nama wars of 1904-08. German administration ended during World War I following South African occupation in 1915.
On December 17, 1920, South Africa undertook administration of South West Africa under the terms of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations and a mandate agreement by the League Council. The mandate agreement gave South Africa full power of administration and legislation over the territory. It required that South Africa promote the material and moral well-being and social progress of the people.
When the League of Nations was dissolved in 1946, the newly formed United Nations inherited its supervisory authority for the territory. South Africa refused UN requests to place the territory under a trusteeship agreement. During the 1960s, as the European powers granted independence to their colonies and trust territories in Africa, pressure mounted on South Africa to do so in Namibia, which was then known as South West Africa. In 1966, the UN General Assembly revoked South Africa’s mandate.
Also in 1966, the South West Africa People’s Organization (SWAPO) began its armed struggle to liberate Namibia, in part from bases abroad. After Angola became independent in 1975, SWAPO established bases in the southern part of that country. Hostilities intensified over the years, particularly in the north.
In a 1971 advisory opinion, the International Court of Justice upheld UN authority over Namibia, determining that the South African presence in Namibia was illegal and that South Africa therefore was obligated to withdraw its administration from Namibia immediately. The Court also advised UN member states to refrain from implying legal recognition or assistance to the South African presence.
International Pressure for Independence
In 1977, Western members of the UN Security Council, including Canada, France, the Federal Republic of Germany, the United Kingdom, and the United States (known as the Western Contact Group), launched a joint diplomatic effort to bring an internationally acceptable transition to independence for Namibia. Their efforts led to the presentation in April 1978 of Security Council Resolution 435 for settling the Namibian problem. The proposal, known as the UN Plan, was worked out after lengthy consultations with South Africa, the front-line states (Angola, Botswana, Mozambique, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe), SWAPO, UN officials, and the Western Contact Group. It called for the holding of elections in Namibia under UN supervision and control, the cessation of all hostile acts by all parties, and restrictions on the activities of South African and Namibian military, paramilitary, and police.
South Africa agreed to cooperate in achieving the implementation of Resolution 435. Nonetheless, in December 1978, in defiance of the UN proposal, it unilaterally held elections in Namibia that were boycotted by SWAPO and a few other political parties. South Africa continued to administer Namibia through its installed multiracial coalitions. Negotiations after 1978 focused on issues such as supervision of elections connected with the implementation of the UN Plan.
Negotiations and Transition
Intense discussions between the concerned parties continued during the 1978-88 period, with the UN Secretary General’s Special Representative, Martti Ahtisaari, playing a key role. The 1982 Constitutional Principles, agreed upon by the front-line states, SWAPO, and the Western Contact Group created the framework for Namibia’s democratic constitution.
In May 1988, a U.S. mediation team, headed by Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Chester A. Crocker, brought negotiators from Angola, Cuba, and South Africa, and observers from the Soviet Union together in London. Intense diplomatic maneuvering characterized the next 7 months, as the parties worked out agreements to bring peace to the region and make implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 435 possible. On December 13, Cuba, South Africa, and the People’s Republic of Angola agreed to a total Cuban troop withdrawal from Angola. The protocol also established a Joint Commission, consisting of the parties with the United States and the Soviet Union as observers, to oversee implementation of the accords. A bilateral agreement between Cuba and the People’s Republic of Angola was signed in New York on December 22, 1988. On the same day a tripartite agreement, in which the parties recommended initiation of the UN Plan on April 1 and the Republic of South Africa agreed to withdraw its troops, was signed. Implementation of Resolution 435 officially began on April 1, 1989, when South African-appointed Administrator Gen. Louis Pienaar officially began administrating the territory’s transition to independence. Special Representative Martti Ahtisaari arrived in Windhoek to begin performing his duties as head of the UN Transition Assistance Group (UNTAG).
The transition got off to a shaky start on April 1 because, in contravention to SWAPO President Sam Nujoma’s written assurances to the UN Secretary General to abide by a cease-fire and repatriate only unarmed insurgents, about 2,000 armed members of the People’s Liberation Army of Namibia (PLAN), SWAPO’s military wing, crossed the border from Angola. The Special Representative authorized a limited contingent of South African troops to aid the South West African police in restoring order. A period of intense fighting followed, during which 375 PLAN fighters were killed. At Mt. Etjo, a game park outside Windhoek, in a special meeting of the Joint Commission on April 9, a plan was put in place to confine the South African forces to base and return PLAN elements to Angola. While the problem was solved, minor disturbances in the north continued throughout the transition period. In October, under order of the UN Security Council, Pretoria demobilized members of the disbanded counterinsurgency unit, Koevoet (Afrikaans for “crowbar”), who had been incorporated into the South West African police.
The 11-month transition period went relatively smoothly. Political prisoners were granted amnesty, discriminatory legislation was repealed, South Africa withdrew all its forces from Namibia, and some 42,000 refugees returned safely and voluntarily under the auspices of the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). Almost 98% of registered voters turned out to elect members of the Constituent Assembly. The elections were held in November 1989 and were certified as free and fair by the Special Representative, with SWAPO taking 57% of the vote, just short of the two-thirds necessary to have a free hand in drafting the constitution. The Democratic Turnhalle Alliance, the opposition party, received 29% of the vote. The Constituent Assembly held its first meeting on November 21 and its first act unanimously resolved to use the 1982 Constitutional Principles as the framework for Namibia’s new constitution.
By February 9, 1990, the Constituent Assembly had drafted and adopted a constitution. March 21, independence day, was attended by Secretary of State James A. Baker III, who represented President George H.W. Bush. On that same day, he inaugurated the U.S. Embassy in Windhoek in recognition of the establishment of diplomatic relations.
On March 1, 1994, the coastal enclave of Walvis Bay and 12 offshore islands were transferred to Namibia by South Africa. This followed 3 years of bilateral negotiations between the two governments and the establishment of a transitional Joint Administrative Authority (JAA) in November 1992 to administer the 300-square mile territory. The peaceful resolution of this territorial dispute, which dated back to 1878, was praised by the United States and the international community, as it fulfilled the provisions of UN Security Council 432 (1978) which declared Walvis Bay to be an integral part of Namibia.
@Gwebecimele
I am truly grateful that you take an interest in your children’s education. If more parents took the time to educate their children on the facts of life, maybe Life Orientation would become redundant.
Unfortunately, most parents do not provide their children with a platform from which they can express themselves, their emotions and their thoughts. This is where Life Orientation is invaluable. It provides learners to speak out and interact with their peers, thereby possibly obtaining a more holistic view of the world. I think this is priceless.
As for exposing myself, why not? I am a white female, born in Namibia and I a have been a South African for five years. I am who I am, I have every right to be proud of my German heritage, without having to feel ashamed of the colour of my skin or having to assosciate myself with any of the wrongdoings of my forefathers.
I am also an educator. That is what defines me. That is what makes me proud.
Again, I am grateful that you provide your children with an education. If you have a problem with Life Orientation as a subject or with the Life Orientation syllabus, I would be more than happy for you to take it up with the Department of Education. This conversation with me is redundant until such time.
Until then, i will continue to do my job as prescribed to the best of my abilities.
Regards
Sheldon might have warned Miss Moo about Dworky….Bad Sheldon!
@ Moolman
Thank you, my kids are safe.
Gwebecimele says:
September 30, 2010 at 14:33 pm
Hey Gwebe,
“Soon they will be telling you that ,’the dog ate my homework’”.
hahaha – plagiarising will get you everywhere (+1 for Pierre).
Anyway – did you watch the TV comedy “Kids say the darndest things”?
Maybe that applies only to Luthando!
p.s. I was told that there is a drug den not too far from that school which learners frequent. Well it seems, maybe not the learners.
p.p.s If the Life Orientation educator is unable to grasp to profundity of the insult of derogatory racial terms, the sunset on the AA legislation (which Zooky is looking for) is going to take a lot longer.
I was by no means trying to undermine the profound effect of these terms, merely trying to demonstrate the difference between the thoughts and opinions of an older versus younger generation. (I form part of this younger generation too, having only been born in the 80′s)
Oh well, whatever I say will be turned against me, but keep it coming, I am so enjoying all of this banter!
C Moolman says:
September 30, 2010 at 16:48 pm
“Oh well, whatever I say will be turned against me, but keep it coming, I am so enjoying all of this banter!”
LOL!
Nice to see that you’re quick on the uptake and cottoned on early on dealing with the robust engagements here – well done.
Now that that is settled, let’s get to some of you contributions.
You say “(a)s for your comments about non-white being offensive, I did a poll in the classes that I saw on the last day of school. By far the majority of learners said that non-white is NOT offensive.”
Fair enough.
I’m curious though that if you understand that being referred to a non-white is ugly, then what is it that makes it acceptable to these impressionable young learners.
I assume that you asked the learners a general question in open class and the learners responded verbally.
What was the question that you asked?
More specifically, what was the background that you gave in asking the question?
Maggs is right.
Ms Moolmaan, as a “Life Orientation” instructor, is it not one of your duties to convey to our young people the appropriate conventions of political correctness?
Our children are the future. They must be taught what to take offense at!
Thanks very much.
Gwebe is right.
The pendulum of exclusion must surely be allowed to swing the other way.
We must just make sure there is someone standing ready to catch it on the downswing (at 180 degrees), lest the evils of white domination be reproduced by sheer historical momentum!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
September 30, 2010 at 20:51 pm
Hey Maynard,
Nah – not to worry.
These are little Black kids so no need to bother much about their dignity or self-respect.
And they (or is it them?) are just being forward if they think that they will ever attain the 15 years of commercial flying time that is needed, as you pointed out before, to be worth anything.
Black kids must be guided to their station in life – not quite ‘hewers of wood and drawers of water’ but the 21st century equivalent.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
September 30, 2010 at 20:56 pm
Hey Mossad Guy,
“The pendulum of exclusion must surely be allowed to swing the other way”.
It seems like the pendulum swung too hard you way and knocked you on the head.
Or is it the other stuff tonite?
In a separate incident, the department had suspended the deputy principal of Roosevelt High School in Johannesburg over allegations of sexual assault against female pupils. “Over the weekend [he was] arrested on serious allegations of sexual assault against a girl learner at another school where he was residing,” Phahlane said. “On Friday last week five learners at his school had already levelled allegations of sexual harassment against him at Parkview police station and a case is being investigated.”
The department would pursue disciplinary charges against the deputy principal. “We will not tolerate the sexual abuse of learners. Neither will we tolerate acts of discrimination or victimisation of anyone in our schools on the basis of race.”-Sapa
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&cr=countryZA&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENZA263&tbs=qdr%3Ad2%2Cctr%3AcountryZA&q=%22roosevelt+high%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
What a tragedy for the two schools involved. Are you blaming all the teachers and the children in the school for this situation? Teachers, like most adults and teenagers, are revolted by this situation. You cannot believe that the authorities at the two schools took no notice of this. Are you sure the two situations can be compared (are the people involved all white Afrikaners in your opinion?).
Cassandra says:
October 20, 2010 at 22:50 pm
Hey Cassandra,
“Are you blaming all the teachers and the children in the school for this situation?”.
Indeed not. I listened to Sheldon Smith on 702 and was impressed with what he said.
However this points out, contrary to much of the submissions above from educators at the school, that the generalisation that the staff are all totally committed to the development of learners may be a bit over the top.
For example, to quote one “I believe every single teacher at Roosevelt High School and in fact, teachers in general, would say the same. Education is not a profession, it’s a calling.”
Perhaps Sheldon should have been gathering intelligence about his staff rather than schoolgirls?
In response to Brett:
That statement was uncalled for and we do everything that we can to protect those with whom we work.
A joke at my expense was fine initially but this situation is serious and snide comments and digs at my use of language and words implies that you dont view the situation with the same severity as I do.
I would therefore ask that you treat the situation with gravity that it deserves and perhaps do something constructive about the numerous issues that we now face in light of the abuses against our girls.
Perhaps someone should question the department of education as to their ‘gathering of intelligence’ and question their procedures and background checks on ANY new appointee…………
As always, I remain at your disposal should you have further questions or comments but I will not pander to mindless banter going back and forth related to semantics.
Thanks
Sheldon Smith
Sheldon, I stand by what I said. I am not going to belabour the point, which had to be made.
You still appear to be in denial about your remarks about gathering intelligence on those girls making you sound like a drama queen.
Relax. I am not going to be on your case in perpetuity when the offence is a slip of the keyboard when you were cast in a very difficult role in the limelight which you probably never wanted nor asked for.
Sheldon Smith says:
October 21, 2010 at 10:58 am
Hey Sheldon,
“In response to Brett”
Ignore Brett.
He’s an idiot!