Constitutional Hill

Who must decide on school admissions?

It is an uncontested fact that there are vast disparities in the quality of education provided to children at different public schools in South Africa. Although there are some laudable exceptions, the quality of education provided at schools in more affluent areas is generally far better than the quality of education provided at schools situated in poorer areas. Given the lingering effects of apartheid town planning and racial dispossession, this means that schools formerly exclusively reserved for white children often produce the best results. How to address this injustice has become one of the most intractable but emotionally laden issues in South Africa.

The legal battle between the Governing Body of the Rivonia Primary School and the Department of Basic Education about who may determine the number of learners a school may admit, occurs against this problematic backdrop. However, the suggestion that the battle over the admission of the grade 1 pupil to Rivonia Primary School would never have reached the courts if the mother of the child was not politically well-connected (apparently having direct access to the Gauteng MEC for Basic Education) and the fact that she demanded special treatment for her child, further complicates the matter.

Late last year the Supreme Court of Appeal (SCA) ruled that the South African Schools Act grants the right to determine the number of learners to be admitted to a school to that school’s Governing Body, not to the MEC. Relying on section 5(5) of the Act, which states that “the admission policy of a public school is determined by the governing body of such school”, Cachalia JA (writing for a unanimous bench of 5 judges) dismissed the arguments from the Department of Basic Education that sections 3(3) and 3(4) of the Act granted the power to determine the number of children to be admitted to each school to the MEC.

Section 3(3) obliges the MEC to “ensure that there are enough school places so that every child who lives in his or her province can attend school . . .”. Section 3(4) obliges the MEC, if he or she cannot comply with subsection (3) because of a lack of capacity existing at the time of commencement of the Act, to “take steps to remedy such lack of capacity as soon as possible” and to “make an annual report to the Minister on the progress achieved in doing so”. Relying on a so called “plain reading” of these sections, the SCA stated that these sections were concerned with the MEC’s obligation to ensure that infrastructure is provided for compulsory school attendance of all children in the province, not with determining how many children could be accepted by each school in accordance with the admissions policy determined by the Governing Body.

It is unclear what the MEC is supposed to do if children are denied schooling because all the Governing Bodies in an area have decided, on reasonable and rational grounds, that their schools cannot admit more children. As it takes a while to build new classrooms, one assumes those children not admitted to any school will be denied an education until such time as the Department had increased the number of classrooms to accommodate them. This effective denial would be in breach of section 29(1) of the Constitution, which states that “everyone has the right to basic education”. That is why the Department (as well as Equal Education who intervened in the case) argued for a constitutionally appropriate interpretation of the Act as required by section 39(2) of the Constitution to allow the MEC to determine how many children should be admitted to each school.

It must be said that the Act prohibits any Governing Body from discriminating against any child when making admissions decisions. A school is also prohibited from administering any test related to the admission of a learner to a public school. No learner may be refused admission to a public school on the grounds that his or her parent is unable to pay or has not paid the school fees or because the child does not subscribe to the mission statement of the school.

Section 22 of the Act authorises the HoD, on reasonable grounds, to withdraw any one or more of the functions of a governing body – including its power to decide on the admission of pupils – after following a prescribed process. This means that if a Governing Body refuses to admit a child on racial grounds the Department can intervene and withdraw that Governing Body’s power to make decisions on admissions. But what happens if there are reasonable and rational admissions policies in place at all the surrounding schools but there simply is no place for a pupil in any of the public school in the area where the child lives? Must the child sit at home and wait for better days?

There are two questions at the heart of this dispute. First, to what extent should affluent parents be allowed to buy exclusive education for their children through their control of the Governing Body of a school situated in a wealthy area? The Schools Act (adopted in 1996 by our democratic Parliament) surprisingly seems to suggest that wealthy parents should be allowed to buy a better life for their children and that children of poorer parents do not deserve the same quality of schooling than the children of wealthy parents. As the SCA explains, in terms of the Schools Act:

A governing body stands in a position of trust towards the school. It promotes the school’s best interests and strives to ensure its development by providing quality education to the learners. Implicit in this model of governance is an acceptance on the lawmaker’s part that the state cannot provide all the resources for the proper functioning of a high quality schooling system. So governing bodies are enjoined to ‘take all reasonable measures within [their] means to supplement the resources supplied by the State in order to improve the quality of education provided by the school…’ Governing bodies thus have a mandate – indeed, an obligation – to raise additional funds through the active involvement of the parents, who in return for their financial contributions are given a direct and meaningful say in school governance and the employment of school funds.

The second underlying question is whether, given the governance framework adopted by the Schools Act, the Department of Basic Education could have done more to improve the quality of schooling at those schools where Governing Bodies cannot pour resources into a school to improve the quality of the education there because they cannot charge more school fees or because they do not have the management expertise and know-how that would assist them to hold the headmaster and the teachers of that school to account for their performance.

The answer is that the Department could do more but that it has, inexplicably, not done so. One way of addressing the problem of underperforming schools is for the Minister of Basic Education to make use of section 5A of the Schools Act to prescribe minimum and uniform norms and standards for a school.

The section states that such norms and standards has to deal with infrastructure (dealing with the availability of classrooms; electricity; water; sanitation; a library; laboratories for science, technology, mathematics and life sciences; sport and recreational facilities; electronic connectivity at a school; and perimeter security); the capacity of a school in respect of the number of learners a school can admit (dealing with the number of teachers and the class size; quality of performance of a school; curriculum and extra-curricular choices; classroom size; and utilisation of available classrooms of a school); and the provision of learning and teaching support material (dealing with stationery and supplies; learning material; teaching material and equipment; science, technology, mathematics and life sciences apparatus; electronic equipment; and school furniture and other school equipment).

In terms of the section, a Governing Body must comply with these norms and standards and is required to compile and review its admission policy in accordance with such norms and standards. As no such norms and standards have yet been promulgated, the Rivonia Primary School could not be compelled to adhere to these norms and standards, which aggravated the problem.

Under pressure from the NGO Equal Education, the Minister of Basic Education this week did promulgate draft norms and standards, but these are so vague and nonsensical that they would be of little use in the current case, nor would it be of use to improve the infrastructure and the management of pupil placement at schools. Thus the draft norms and standards require that a school be provided with “adequate sanitation facilities that promote health and hygiene standards and that comply with all applicable laws”; “basic water supply which complies with all relevant laws; and “where reasonably practicable, a school should be provided with some form of connectivity for purposes of communication”.

The draft guidelines seem to kick for touch, empowering MEC’s to develop plans to provide better facilities to schools. But we do not need more plans to be developed. What we need is the enforcement of clear and detailed minimum norms and standards to ensure that each school provides education of a basic minimum quality in an environment conducive to learning. Surely it is untenable that 93% of public schools have no libraries, almost 2500 schools have no water supply and 46% of schools still reportedly use pit latrines? More detailed minimum norms and standards about the number of pupils that could be admitted to each school would also enable the Department to force schools to admit more children in cases where children would otherwise be denied an education.

Meanwhile we will have to wait and see whether the Constitutional Court overturns the SCA decision or whether other measures will be required to deal with difficult cases where children might be denied access to education through no fault of their own.

  • Gwebecimele

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-01-08-standers-death-the-fruit-of-a-poisoned-society

    That’s one way of looking at it. But there’s a detail no one seems to have grocked about this latest tragedy: both Njabulo Nyawose and Burry Stander were on the road earning a living. They may have come from different backgrounds, but the tarred roads that are paid for and maintained at the behest of South African taxpayers are essential to their respective bank accounts. No mountain biker can be competitive without spending the bulk of his training time on the road. And I needn’t spell out what roads mean for a taxi driver.

    In other words, both Stander and Nyawose used a public service in order to eat, and in turn maintained those services by paying taxes – not just on the money they earned from their jobs, but on the goods they purchased, like the petrol Nyawose pumped into his machine every day. There is no hierarchy in this equation – both men were entitled to use the road for their respective purposes, so long as they obeyed the rules that applied to them both, equally.

    So far, so obvious. What seems to escape South Africa’s ken, however, is the fact that everyone who uses our roads should be guaranteed safe passage. On Boxing Day, I had a good, old-fashioned, dry-as-a-bone gallows laugh – Sky News International ran as their lead story the death of a mother and her two children in a road accident somewhere in England. Horrific, I know.

    But over the holiday season in South Africa, there is a story like that every hour. The Road Traffic Management Corporation (RTMC) can’t count how many people have died since the middle of December – their rough estimate is around 1 300. That’s the population of a good-sized dorp. That’s four full Boeing 747’s, and a 737 thrown in for change. That’s almost half of the casualties from 9/11. That’s carnage. That’s a massacre.

    Burry Stander is swallowed whole by that monstrous figure – he becomes a statistic within a statistic. One thousand three hundred. How many other cyclists belong to this number? A dozen? A hundred? Two hundred? The RTMC has no idea. They offer us bulk, not precision.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Prof

    The legislature is actually correct. A public school in a wealthy area with generous donors can use those resources to increase the standard of education. Controlling numbers is a critical part of the quality of education. It would a dereliction of duty for the governing bodies to do otherwise and simply admit anyone who walked off the street.

    The fault lies not with the law or the governing bodies, but with the Ministry. You see, if a public school in a wealthy area is doing well looking after itself, the Ministry can focus on uplifting the poorer schools and ensure that those pupils (not learners FFS) receive the same education as the school in the wealthy area. I there are not enough schools in an area the Minister must ensure there are enough schools in the area. That is her job.

    Money is not an issue either as we have one of the biggest education budgets in the world – so your comments on wealthy areas etc are of no application.

    Solving the school’s crisis has nothing whatsoever to do with Apartheid or emotions or whatever as you claim; but it is entirely due to the uselessness of the Department under all previous Ministers and coupled with the dominance of SADTU, who also ensured the extinction of the school inspectorate.

    Apartheid didn’t fail to deliver books last year. Apartheid didn’t dismantle the teacher training colleges. Apartheid didn’t dismantle the school inspectorate. Apartheid didn’t allow teachers to go to union activities during teaching hours. Apartheid hasn’t failed to build schools to keep pace with urbanization and population growth.

    Most importantly, Apartheid didn’t lower the pass mark to 30%…

    Did you know that public schools are “deemed” to be quality controlled. Not actually quality controlled, just deemed. SO no monitoring ever really takes place.

    You are angry about the mess, and you should be. But it is the fault of the ANC and SADTU that we face these problems.

    You ask why the child is excluded through no fault of her own, but what of the compromising of the other children’s education because classes get too big?

    The other children at that school have a right to a decent education too.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Zoo

    South Africa was not born in 1994 and most of the teaching staff plus officials are products of an oppressed society. What we inherited was never good BUT we are not doing any better than the apartheid govt. We should hold ourselves to a standard and quality that is higher than that of apartheid. Inequality,racism, medium of instruction, oppressed culture, school infrastructure etc cannot be resolved overnight. Infact many school will remain on pit latrine toilets for decades to come. Country Development and Infrastructure rollout are long term by nature. What we should asked for is commitment and visible actions something better than the half hearted NDP.

    I look forward to a day when the government will say there is no money for BMW’s, lunch, parties, private jets etc because we are focussing on rolling out libraries or labs.

  • Deloris Dolittle

    Well said Zoo Keeper. Another thing Pierre might not be aware of is the fact that the subsidy these ‘affluant’ schools receive from government makes up such a small part of teh schools’ yearly budget that some of these schools are only public schools by name. Some schools generate up to 90% of their own income. Suerly they should be able to in this instance dictate how the resources are allocated. Like Zoo Keeper said, if a public school in a wealthy area is doing well looking after itself, the Ministry can focus on uplifting the poorer schools.

    It simply does not work to try and slice the same cake in smaller and smaller pieces to try and give everyone something, you have to bake bigger cake, there is no gettign around that.

    And by the way Pierre, it does not take so long to buld class rooms any more, they come prefabricated with all services already installed so getting them delivered and installed on a platform is all that is needed. You dont have to build with bricks and mortar, that is old school.

  • Gwebecimele

    Political elites and public officials have opted to adopt the elitist system that exists in all our spheres of life. Health, Education and even death on our roads is managed along those lines. Citizens can only hope to be in the fortunate segment that utilises private working facilities and some public facilities in the urban areas. Non delivery of text books will not happen in Sandton or Rondebosch and that has little to with the party in charge but more about potential consequences that the responsible civil servant might suffer. Frankly speaking this case plus mother tongue/afrikaans case and others are a battle of the black and white middle class over the control of model c schools.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Dolittle

    If you are 90% self funded then go private. Why would you want a 10% burden?

  • parental

    In all the hype and accusation around the Rivonia School people lost sight of some important details
    The school has a majority previously disadvantaged student body! The department was criticised for playing the race card whenin fact it was about numbers

    The schools pupil to teacher ratio as per the number of teachers paid for by the state was in line with departmental guidelines! The SGB had created smaller classes by raising funds and employing extra teachers! Surely this “space” that is created cannot be subject to the departmentss whims and fancies!

    The parent of the affectd child only applied in January when in fact they had already filled the vacancies in Oct/Nov of the previous year! There was a waiting list! These parents eretardy and then used their connections to impose their tardiness on the school!! A brilliant and compassionate head mistress was slandered in the process!

  • Gwebecimele
  • Zoo Keeper

    Gwebe

    Its extremely difficult if not impossible to take a public school and make it private.

    Yes, we inherited a lot from Apartheid, including a decimated schooling system thanks to the ANC – child soldiers anyone?

    We cannot lump everything into the Apartheid pot anymore. Re-training teachers and getting their skills up should have been a priority. Instead the facilities designed for this were simply shut down. All that had to happen was a change in the requirements to continue teaching and teacher-training. I would say with real political will 4 years would have been plenty to set this up.

    It was actually a very simple job and there was tremendous support from all involved – except SADTU.

    Apartheid and money are just simply no longer valid as an explanation for our educational crisis.

    18 years is the length of time it takes to graduate a doctoral student from grade one to graduation with full-time studies. And that is a long time.

    Its been too long now. The current government is wholly responsible for this mess, especially because the of the ANC’s intentional destruction of schooling during the struggle. So its best we leave the wealthy and Apartheid out of this discussion and ask why the party of the revolution is so intent on delivering rubbish education – why are they so threatened by a highly educated and skilled population?

  • Gwebecimele

    “The doors of learning shall be opened”.
    South Africans are spoilt elsewhere you either afford private or public schooling.
    At this rate expect more township kombies to bring more leaners to the surburbs.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Gwebe

    In terms of mother-tongue education I’m a big supporter of primary school in mother-tongue. We just need lots of primary schools!!

  • Zoo Keeper

    Gwebe

    Private schools are now about 70% black in number of schools. Most private schools are township and rural schools, often next to an existing public school.

    Townships won’t be bussing in pupils to the suburbs, they’ll be building their own schools.

    It gives the lie to the Professor’s attack on the wealthy. Everyone, regardless of socio-economic status, is trying to buy their kids a better education!

  • parental

    Gwebe regarding taxis! I find it interesting that the organisations that represent independant schools have had remarkable growth from what they call “low fee” private schools! Most are in townships! The people are getting sick the mismanagement and are setting up Private schools in their areas!

  • Gwebecimele

    Zook

    I do not believe the ANC has a plan to destroy education. The ANC always wanted better education for all especially black majority. You are right, our past ministers and most snr officials were useless Asmal included. Today we have black health workers neglecting black patients, black teachers neglecting black learners, black civil servants ill treating black job seekers etc and that is not an ANC making but what I will call “apartheid babalaas”. While the ANC can try and hold its members accountable but what about the many who are not its members. Yes it must provide leadership but we need more than that perhaps we must teach Steve Biko/African Studies in our schools.

    Yes, GOVERNMENT MUST NOT DONATE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO COMMUNITIES. If you want it, build it.

  • Zoo Keeper

    Gwebes

    It may not have a plan to destroy it, but it certainly does not have a plan to improve it, or even the will-power to work at it.

    The ANC may have wanted better education, or at least it may have said so. But I’m afraid we have to judge the ANC on its actions/inactions here, and it ain’t pretty.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 11, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    “Inequality,racism, medium of instruction, oppressed culture, school infrastructure etc cannot be resolved overnight. Infact many school will remain on pit latrine toilets for decades to come.”

    Most of that is rubbish gwebs. The government had 40 billion to spend on buying useless military hardware in 1999. To name but ONE example in a plethora of where my and your tax monies are being pissed down the gutter.

    To claim that many of these problems cannot be solved due to a “lack of resources” is a bold-faced lie. It is because of greed and corruption and a lack of political will. It is also because of a perpetual culture of blaming everybody/anybody/anything else besides ourselves which makes it easy to escape responsibility and accountability.

    This must stop now.

  • Graham

    Pierre, I am surprised that you saw fit to write this article. The SCA’s judgment was a complete and utter demolition of the State’s case and it would be surprising if the constitutional court decides to hear a further appeal. They haven’t yet said they will accept the department’s approach.
    This judgment, and Zoo Keeper’s comments above, are a slam dunk.
    There frankly isn’t anything left to say on the Rivonia school case and the department is simply trying to save face and contemptuously wasting more taxpayer funds – which could in fact be better used to remedy their educational malaise.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Zoo Keeper
    January 11, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    ZooKy,

    You’re wrong in several respects.

    Firstly these schools are still state property. Those who paid for the improvements exit the schools after 7 years at primary level and 5 years at high school level. Governing body members serve at most the the periods during which their children are at the schools. These are unlike body corporates of a sectional title building. So who owns the enhanced assets? It must surely still be the state.

    Next, many schools still use the “admission policy” as a race-based gate-keeping mechanism despite their denials. They have found clever ways of even keeping out children who live in the vicinity of the school. I’ve had direct experience of that.

    The governing bodies in many instances have become no more than lackeys to the school principal, merely rubber-stamping decisions and looking pretty at school events. Often teachers or principals from neighbouring schools end up as chairpersons – the chances of a fellow principal ensuring the best interests of the learners and parents against a fellow principal is slim.

    Of course the schools attract better teachers as there are the necessary incentives. I’m told that many governing bodies issue credit cards to the principal – a practice which is wholly unacceptable.

    But those are side issues.

    Those who move into a neighbourhood of these former model-C schools have very little option but to put up with the kak. It is completely unacceptable that state property is hijacked (with the aid of the Schools Act) much like the gated communities. If people want to have 20 kids per class they should start private schools.

    It was wrong of the DBE to place that particular child at Rivonia School in the way it did – and for that the DBE got rightly rapped on its knuckles by the SCA. The officials needed to be reminded that arbitrary and unlawful behaviour is unacceptable.

    But I hope that when this matter is eventually brought before the it, that the CC will decide in a way that will change a lot of this – the Act certainly needs revising.

    Let’s hope that Zuma and the ANC realise that a Minister of Basic Education needs to be someone who is capable of tackling a mammoth task, not a sloppy one who pronounces “If my best is not good enough, tough luck!”.

  • Dmwangi

    This is by far the most decisive issue facing the future of SA. And notwithstanding sweeping claims to the contrary, none of us has much of a clue about how to solve it. The issues are much more complex than unionisation and mismanagement versus lack of resources and the legacy of apartheid.

  • Lisbeth

    Dmwangi:

    “… versus lack of resources”

    There is no lack of resources. Rather, a lack of well-trained, dedicated and inspiring teachers. That’s all. That’s the way I see it.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – I challenge you to provide the name of one model C school that has 20 children in a class.
    This issue is about black racism nothing more.It concerns a black women who as usual left enrolling her child to the last minute and now plays the race card with the connivince of the DBE to drag the integrity of a school head mistress through the mud because this mother could not get her own way.
    Why did she want her child to go to the Rivinoia school in the first instance, this reason is simply because of the high standard on education achieved.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 11, 2013 at 19:56 pm

    Hey Mike,

    “@Maggs – I challenge you to provide the name of one model C school that has 20 children in a class.”

    I challenge you to a duel – but i get to choose the weapons.

    I’ll go first!

    The school, however, had a lower learner-class ratio of 24 learners per class – one of the lowest ratios in the province.

    How about that eh!

    I fully agree with the SCA ruling on the Rivonia School and I am aware of a bit more than is in the public arena re what happened there.

    But my views don’t derive from that incident which I think was appalling.

    You don’t have the same experiences as I (and others like me) do – my experience has been of arrogant WHITE supremacy.

  • sirjay jonson

    Its actually quite simple. In SAfrica, children are not a priority, rather viewed as a hindrance and expense. They are not seen as a continuance of ourselves by the powers that be. They are not recognized as the future of this country, wealthy or poor. Our self serving elites are only concerned with the present, with rabid accumulation, and with respect to moral and ethical duty they are in denial, ludicrously defensive and bloated in obfuscation. Witness chemical, or should I say toxic Mac and other numerous ANC professional self believing trolls.

    Nearly all the challenges of SAfrica are actually realistically resolvable if there was true intelligence, self discipline and political will at the managerial levels. However, elitist management has other priorities which we are well aware of.

    I submit I’m not being racist when I say that not allowing the expertise of sincere non racist whites to participate effectively in our society (heaven forbid) is a huge mistake and a sad loss for all the people of SAfrica, especially the children and our future.

    Forgive me if I add that in my view the majority of racist expression and behavior comes from the majority, and not from the minorities (who apparently don’t exist) and as a result the elite are biting their noses to spite their face. They obviously don’t understand comprehensive karma, or care about such things for that matter.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Dmwangi
    January 11, 2013 at 17:36 pm

    “This is by far the most decisive issue facing the future of SA. And notwithstanding sweeping claims to the contrary, none of us has much of a clue about how to solve it. The issues are much more complex than unionisation and mismanagement versus lack of resources and the legacy of apartheid.”

    They used to joke about us “backward” Afrikaners. The preacher, doctor and the teacher were very much respected, well payed and considered the pillars of our community.

    “In die oujare was ‘n onderwyser ‘n grend man om nie van die dominee en die dokter te praat nie, as hulle aan huise kom, is die hele huis die week omgekeer en is al wat kopergoed is weer blink gevryf, die huis lug gegee, die meubels met byewas gepoleer, die matte se fraiings mooi reguit uitgekam, alles net oor die voormense van die dorp kom kuier het.”

    http://soutenpeper.com/2010/10/11/hertzog-en-generaal-smutskoekies/

    You go figure.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    The state is in a catch 22 with this one.

    The high fees go to lowering the pupil-teacher ratios. If the DBE insists on increasing the pupil-teacher ratios then they cannot force parents to pay the school fees – so the state will have to increase funding. That in turn will put further financial pressure on the state and Public Works who will have to take over the maintenance.

    Let’s see what Minister “Tough Luck” Motshekga does next!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone
  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    In short – we have way too much sophisticated White liberal bullshit dominating our national discourse when we can’t even get the basics right.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 11, 2013 at 22:13 pm

    “The state is in a catch 22 with this one. ”

    Fuck “the state”. We are the state. “The state’s” values and priorities are determined by us.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    I say this is all about pure RACISM. Our people have struggled so that, in the words of the Freedom Charter, the “doors of learning shall be opened.” If the apartheid-nostalgic whitists of the Rivonia Governing Body want so-called “quality” education for their children, they should go back to Australia. I demand that the Schools Act be amended to allow for the TRANSFORMATION and democratisation of schools under the leadership of SADTU!

    Thanks.

  • Gwebecimele

    Clearly you don’t have a clue of how much it costs to roll out labs, libraries, computer rooms, water,electricity etc country wide plus mantainance. It will cost more than the arms deal.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 12, 2013 at 6:35 am

    “Clearly you don’t have a clue of how much it costs to roll out labs, libraries, computer rooms, water,electricity etc country wide plus mantainance. It will cost more than the arms deal.”

    Hell, but water, sewerage and electricity is a good start no? You can back calculate to 1999 – at the time the arms deal was worth 3 years of our national education budget. But rather piss out or tax monies on maintaining the lavish life styles of ANC “comrades”, Tony Blair’s and the British people.

    What bizarre and fatalistic cynicism. Why do you think we all pay our taxes, what the fuck are taxes for then?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Correction. The R 30 billion arms deal of 1999 was in fact worth 4 x the education budget (R 7 billion) for that same year.

    http://www.treasury.gov.za/documents/national%20budget/1999/ene/vote_16.pdf

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 12, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Eish WHITE Boy,

    “The R 30 billion arms deal of 1999 was in fact worth 4 x the education budget (R 7 billion) for that same year.”

    You’re confused – R7 billion is the H/E budget!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 12, 2013 at 11:37 am

    OK, if I am incorrect I apologise not that I can imagine that it makes any difference in defending such a gross mismanagement of monies that could have been put into education

    – so then what was the educational budget for 1999?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 12, 2013 at 13:33 pm

    “- so then what was the educational budget for 1999?”

    R48,5 billion!

  • Brett Nortje

    http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=343774&sn=Detail

    “The huge public outcry over the recent Limpopo textbook crisis is a useful illustration of the way in which the moral climate in the country has shifted.

    In June 1996 the ANC government agreed, in negotiations with SADTU and other teacher unions, to R3.5bn (approximately R7.2bn in 2012 rand values) in salary increases for teachers – the bulk of which (R2.5bn) went to the least qualified teachers. A new salary structure was also put in place which cut the link between salaries and qualifications in favour of unenforceable “performance” criteria.

    In a concurrent effort to “right size” the education system, and equalise class sizes, between May 1996 and September 1997 the government induced 15 541 often highly experienced teachers to take severance packages. This is not including all the high level experts and civil servants in the education department who were also pensioned off. The consequences for the quality of teaching were dire. One indication of this was that the number of pupils passing matric higher grade maths fell from 22 800 in 1997 to 19 327 in 2000; while the number of pupils passing higher grade physical science fell from 27 000 to 23 344 in the same period.

    At the same time, the ANC government reduced spending on textbooks from R851m in 1995/96 to R381m in 1996/97 and then R226m in 1997/98. This effectively meant a cut in the yearly supply of textbooks from about 850 million to 300 million. In October 1999 it was reported that Heinemann Publishers had sent “200 tonnes of books – including schoolbooks, dictionaries, atlases and African language storybooks – to the pulping plant in late September, clearing an entire warehouse full of books that had been gathering dust on the shelves since the government introduced Curriculum 2005 in 1996.” (The Teacher October 1999)

    These cut backs were forced partly by the massive pay increases agreed to in 1996. But there was an ideological element at play as well. Curriculum 2005 was a rushed and ultimately highly destructive effort to foist “Outcomes Based Education” (OBE) on the school system. As Penny Vinjevold noted in October 1997 many proponents of this Curriculum did not regard the lack of funding for textbooks as a problem. “They argue that once sets of learning outcomes have been produced, it is possible and even desirable for individual teachers to develop their own learning programmes and materials.”

    In a single year then (1996) the Mandela administration had, in its haste to “transform” the education system hiked the salaries of the most poorly qualified teachers; massively reduced the textbook budget to compensate; started pensioning off thousands of SA’s best teachers; cut the link between pay and qualifications; adopted an inappropriate new curriculum; and, also moved to push out many highly experienced bureaucrats and experts.

    These decisions help explain why the quality of our education system, particularly for the poor, declined rather than recovered after the end of apartheid and ungovernability. But while they were certainly reported on at the time they attracted only isolated criticism, and a great deal of positive and optimistic comment.

    Ironically enough, on taking office the Zuma administration actually reprioritised the provision of textbooks and workbooks to schools. In her November 2009 speech announcing the signing of the “death certificate” for OBE the new Minister of Basic Education, Angie Motshekga, observed that “there was a very strange anomaly in our system in which the importance of textbooks in curriculum delivery was no longer appreciated.” She added that this was going to change and textbooks “are going to be used as an effective tool to ensure consistency, coverage, appropriate pacing and better quality in terms of instruction and content.”

    Unlike in the late 1990s significant resources were also made available for such materials. This year R6.4bn was budgeted for learner support material in the various provinces – textbooks, workbooks and stationery – rising to R10.3bn next year. In real terms then government is spending approximately 14 times more on learner support material this year than it spent on textbooks in 1997/1998. Next year it’ll be spending twenty times more.

    The inability of government to get textbooks and workbooks to schools in Limpopo, and who knows where else, thus cannot be put down to either ideology or a lack of resources, as before. It is rather the result of extreme state dysfunctionality with the civil service no longer able to perform even the most routine bureaucratic tasks. SECTION27 had to go to court to try to force government to implement its own policy, and one for which there was an ample budget available.

    The outraged response from civil society, the press and from within the ANC itself stands in stark and welcome contrast to the non-reaction to the many half-baked policies on education, including massive cuts to the textbook budget, implemented by the ANC government from the mid to late 1990s.”

  • Willem Wikkelspies

    In a letter to the Whitehouse dated 14 January , 1999 , late HNP leader Jaap Marais stated

    “In the period September 1984 to August 1989 no fewer than 1770 schools were destroyed or extensively damaged, as were 7187 private homes of Blacks, 10318 buses, 152 trains, 12188 private vehicles, 1265 shops and factories, 60 post offices, 47 churches and 30 health clinics.

    And, what is even worse, there were 300 cold-blooded murders by the barbarous necklace method and 372 deaths of people trapped in homes set alight by terrorist gangs.”|

    Surely , a further 1770 schools , would solve what appears to have been an astronomical shot to the foot , by the Marxist terrorist ANC and their respective cohorts .

  • Willem Wikkelspies

    What say you all about the kid , whose parent has connections in the ANC and tried to force itself into Rivonia .

    My experience of school kids is they can sometimes be rather cruel and should history repeat , this kid will be singled out .

    Time will tell .

  • sirjay jonson

    Willem Wikkelspies
    January 12, 2013 at 19:31 pm

    Certainly looks like our present ‘free society’ has underpinnings determined to make it worse than apartheid, and worse, justify pre-freedom white fears. I do see, however, that at certain levels there is an evolved mixing of all the races in ongoing daily social intercourse, at work, in relationships, in sports (witness the SA/NZ test audience today) and… in reality.

    I personally think the greatest threats to SAfrica are those promoted by the ‘racist activists’, those who have not come to terms with their self perceived woundedness, and who utilize this convenient hurt, combined with determined greed to spread hatred and division, when for most of us it doesn’t exist.

    But they have the public ear. Time we cut it off, figuratively, naturally.

    Let us recognize and shame racist activists.

  • Willem Wikkelspies

    sirjay jonson
    January 12, 2013 at 21:54 pm

    And what of the 1770 schools which were wantonly destroyed …..

  • Willem Wikkelspies

    Appropos the cricket , I agree but would assert that today’s spectators and tomorrows could be a by product of economic apartheid – those who can afford the price of tickets for 5 days , if indeed the test even lasts longer than 3 send their kids to decent schools .

    However these are more than likely the folk who can afford school fees and if this is the case , their fees pay for additional teachers , over and above what Angies mates are prepared to pay for , and thusly the school governing bodies should have a say regarding admissions .

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    The fundamental problem is that the so-called “Governing Bodies” have been captured by WHITISH interests. Tragically, the Schools Act legitimates the stranglehold of those opposed to PEDAGOGIC TRANSFORMATION. I say that racist parents should emigrate ASAP to New Zealand, or go back to Holland, and take their super-entitled children with them,

    Thanks.

  • Parental

    Mikhail. And yet parents in the townships are bussing their kids to The old model c schools! The middle class are sending their kids to private schools! I am yet to hear of an ANC MP or MEC who is sending their kids to a local school!

    What is the reason for this phenomenon? I believe they are moving their kids away from schools where SADTU is in control and rather going to schools where teachers are responsible

    And don’t say it’s a matter of the rich and their resources – Malawi thrashes us in all the standards tests and when you visit their schools the kids seldom have desks! They do not have the resources our township schools have!

    It’s about the teachers and their commitment to their kids! SADTU needs to stop the rhetoric and the blame game! Get on with educating! If a country like Malawi can do it with their few resources you have no excuse!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Parental

    I agree. That is why I demand that the grip of the WHITISH governing bodies must be broken, and replaced with the democratic control of national government, and those on the cutting edge of education on the ground: our teachers as represented by SADTU. As for Malawi, you example makes my point. Those schools can succeed with less resources because they are not in the vice-like grip of WHITIST governing bodies.

    Many thanks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    January 12, 2013 at 22:27 pm

    “I say that racist parents should emigrate ASAP to New Zealand, or go back to Holland, and take their super-entitled children with them,”

    Well thank you Herr Mngxitama, and well put.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tsnkE2PSltk/TwjnW71u5LI/AAAAAAAABYA/_9XZQLf5nr8/s1600/hitler-salute1.jpg

    But would do you also support a new dispensation of SELF-DETERMINATION as contemplated in in section 235 of our Constitution for those less privileged Whites/Coloureds/Indians with South African passport only who cannot emigrate?

  • parental

    Mikhail
    When sadtu with the facilities they have prove themselves worthy and start getting the pass rates that teachers affiliated to other Unions get maybe then they will be taken seriously!

    SADTU has proven they are not interested in the children but only in their pay cheque! Yes there might be some good members but the ill disciplinej the timekeeping and the scandals of teachers having affairs with the children have made the union a laughing stock!

    With better facilities than Malawi you bunch have not made it work! Why destroy what is working. Improve what is not working!

  • Brett Nortje

    You say “SADTU has proven they are not interested in the children but only in their pay cheque!”.

    Lets tell it as it is. Black teachers also expect their ‘free time’ to be their free time. When the bell rings at the end of the day that is where their ‘responsibility’ ends.

    At the school where my cousin and his wife and my aunt teach teachers are expected to take at least one extra-mural activity. Men – rugby, cricket athletics etc. Women netball, chess. Sport. Culture.

    The black teachers refuse to do it. They also want to go home when that bell rings.

  • parental

    Brett
    There is always danger in generalisations! We have some really dedicated teachers in our area who do more than their fair share! I would rather say the mindset of entitlement amongst a majority of SADTU members causes them to act in that way!

    To limit it in terms of race becomes destructive! I have a white headmaster in our area who acts in the very same manner! He is lazy!! In the same way not all white teachers follow his example I would say not all black teachers are like that! Let’s avoid generalisations!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Brett Nortje
    January 13, 2013 at 13:01 pm

    It is because of the continued domination of Whiteness and White Privilege, Brett. Just ask Herr Mngxitama.

    And I tell you. those bargaining Indians are even worse! That is why they are “over represented” in our young demography.

    “Medical students look overseas as quotas squeeze out many top academics”

    “Vijay Reddy, Executive Director of the Education and Skills Development Research Programme at the Human Sciences Research Council, said education was highly valued in the Indian South African household.

    “It’s not seen as just a commodity, it’s part of the value system that goes back years,” said Reddy.

    “Strong support from parents is combined with expectations for a high educational outcome. However, we need to give recognition that hard work leads to success. So in the end it’s not only the ability and potential of a pupil, but the time and effort put in by pupils to ensure academic success.”

    Reddy added education was not only valued by the family but the community as a whole.

    “If you had to go for a function the topic of discussion is usually how kids are faring at school and what their plans are for the future. So the community is very much education oriented.”

    http://thepostza.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    And here again, that White Supremacist concept of merit that is like a White cancer impeding our “transformation”.

    “However, we need to give recognition that hard work leads to success. So in the end it’s not only the ability and potential of a pupil, but the time and effort put in by pupils to ensure academic success.”

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Ozone Guy and Dmwangi,

    You closet heterosexuals should attend this school – maybe you are “rehabilitatable”! :P

    A Christian arts academy in Bloemfontein has come under fire for advertising that it can “cure” homosexual students, it was reported on Sunday.

    The Sunday Times reported that the Creare Training Centre’s prospectus claimed it could convert gay students into heterosexuals through “rehabilitation”.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/01/13/bloemfontein-arts-academy-claims-cure-for-homosexuality

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hmmm!

    Ozone Boy – do you have alibis for the last few weeks???

    Durban – In what could change the face of a uniquely South African crime, a gang of white ATM bombers, thought to be responsible for a string of attacks in central KwaZulu-Natal, continue to wreak havoc as fears of their next strike mount.

    The bombers were caught on CCTV cameras which clearly reveal their white skin colour.

    The gang, thought to comprise between 10 and 15 men, has masterminded at least four attacks in small towns in recent weeks, and the well-armed group operates with military precision.

    http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/new-face-of-atm-bombers-1.1450625#.UPLscPLxkRg

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi – WDYSTT?

    UBUNTU in action ne!

    NAIROBI, Jan 11 (Reuters) — Kenyan legislators have tripled their end-of-term bonuses once again, sweetening the deal with extra perks like diplomatic passports and security for life as well as state funerals when they die.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/world/2013/01/11/kenya-parliamentarians-triple-own-bonuses-again

  • Dmwangi

    Ubuntu? No. Corruption? Yes.

    WDYSTT? Should I be “investing” more in the ANC?

    Johannesburg – President Jacob Zuma said businessmen who supported the African National Congress would see their fortunes multiply, according to a report on Saturday.

    “We’re not forcing people…you can support and be a supporter, but if you go beyond that and become a member, [and] if you’re a businessman, your business will multiply,” the Sunday Times quoted him as saying.

    Zuma was speaking at the ANC’s 101 anniversary gala dinner in Durban on Friday night.

    “Everything you touch will multiply. I’ve always said that a wise businessperson will support the ANC…because supporting the ANC means you’re investing very well in your business.”

    Organisers for the gala dinner told the Sunday Times seats at the 70-table banquet sold out within 10 days and brought in R8.2m. Seats cost between R5 000 and R600 000.

    At the dinner Mineral resources Minister Susan Shabangu successfully bid R3.7m on a painting of former president Nelson Mandela during an auction, the newspaper reported.

    She outbid National Federated Chamber of Commerce and Industry president Joe Hlongwane.

    The ANC reportedly offered to commission a similar portrait in exchange for his R3.5m bid.

    The auction raised R21.4m.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi
    January 13, 2013 at 19:49 pm

    LOL Dm,

    So we can stop pretending that there’s this universal African cultural love for people.

    “WDYSTT? Should I be “investing” more in the ANC?”

    If Zuma says invest – do so. Professor Zuma knows best – as you always try to convince us, he after all has got the best interests of the African people at heart.

    Find the Minister who deals with your field – get her/him to buy R3,7 million paintings, on your behalf, from ANC auctions – just like Minister Shabangu did on behalf of a mining company.

    When poor African miners are slaughtered on behalf of the mining companies, it should come as no surprise – as we have come to discover FUCK THE POOR!

    Oh well – at least this year the poor did not see the leaders stuffing their faces with cake and champagne. As inspired by Chairwoman Mbete, it was done in private.

  • Brett Nortje

    parental says:
    January 13, 2013 at 13:09 pm

    Hardly a generalisation! I state clearly “At the school where my cousin and his wife and my aunt teach”!

    At most an extrapolation!

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    January 13, 2013 at 16:24 pm

    Hey, Maggs – have I ever told you the story about my Fabry cock Marv? Thought he was Mary Fabry with same-sex tendencies and tried to re-orientate her?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Brett – I don’t understand that at all!

    Am I drunk?

    p.s. this should piss off some of our closet heterosexuals!

    http://www.newser.com/article/da3pf4g03/thousands-converge-on-eiffel-tower-in-mass-protest-against-gay-marriage.html

  • Dmwangi

    “So we can stop pretending that there’s this universal African cultural love for people.”

    Stop being your mendacious self. Ubuntu is a cultural *ideal.* No one would have been foolish enough to suggest that there are no bad ppl amongst Africans and that all ~800M of us are perfect and practice Ubuntu all of the time.

    Sort of like, despite the cultural imperative amongst Indians to treat the Dalits as sub-humans, not all Indians subjugate them all of the time.

    Exceptions in practice do not abrogate normative injunctions. We still consider murder wrong despite the fact that it (all too frequently) occurs.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 13, 2013 at 19:23 pm

    “Ozone Boy – do you have alibis for the last few weeks???”

    Nah. That must have been Brett. The moron forgot to roll down his two-tone shirt.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 13, 2013 at 16:24 pm

    “You closet heterosexuals should attend this school – maybe you are “rehabilitatable”!”

    Who needs rehab. Whenever I feel that inclination I just think about you and the mood is totally gone.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi
    January 13, 2013 at 20:53 pm

    Dm,

    “Africans and that all ~800M of us”

    Eish you okes are slow – we got 1,38975647443321934591397655387893 billion.

    re “Sort of like, despite the cultural imperative amongst Indians to treat the Dalits as sub-humans, not all Indians subjugate them all of the time.”

    If you ever see me generalising about Indians morality/sense of humanity or similar, please shoot me – that would be more dumb than anything Ozone Boy will be capable of saying.

  • Brett Nortje

    Blue Ozone says:
    January 13, 2013 at 21:04 pm

    LOLOL! Jy’s besonder skerp vanaand!

  • Brett Nortje

    Dmwangi says:
    January 13, 2013 at 20:53 pm

    Mwangi, what is the Zulu word for ‘ideal’?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi
    January 13, 2013 at 20:53 pm

    Dm,

    You’re nearly there.

    At this rate, in a short while it will dawn on you that “what should be” is not “what is”.

    It will quite a liberating experience!

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    January 13, 2013 at 20:38 pm

    I’m sure I told you this before, silly! I stole a Fabry hen named Mary (bred in Slovakia) for R400 at the Sun City Million$$$ Pigeon Race auctions that had been badly hawked. They sexed it as a hen. When she was healed up I put her in a breeding pen and she promptly beat the crap out the cock I put her with and stole Terka Fabry. When I noticed Mary in a box on eggs with Terka I took Mary out put her in a dog crate with a huge Janssen cock to re-orientate her and threw the eggs away. After a couple of huge barneys they retired to their respective corners to glare at each other. Took them out the dogcrate but to double check I had Mary surgically sexed and the vet told me it was a hen. Next thing Mary had stolen my Clausing hen from another cock and was ignoring her cock. Had to throw another egg away. Decided I had to kill this damn lesbian hen but because I really liked her I told myself not to do things impulsively and put her in the dog crate again with the Clausing hen. Next thing Mary was chasing the Clausing hen again. So I told those silly lesbian hens I would show them they could not actually ‘go forth and multiply’.

    Put their breeding bowl in the dog-crate and three weeks later – 2 little mongrels breed out.

    Mary Fabry was actually Marv Fabry. Silly vet!

    WDYSTT?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 13, 2013 at 20:38 pm

    “If the French parliament approves the plan, France would become the 12th country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage, and the biggest so far in terms of economic and diplomatic influence.”

    But I’m sure in France kids of all colors go to schools with teachers who can count, read and write, running water and do not have to shit in the bush.

    What an advanced lot we are, given our very privileged gay family life.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 13, 2013 at 21:42 pm

    Hey B,

    No you didn’t – I would not have missed such a delightful opportunity to pick on you!

    hehehehe – you’re comical!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/0f67321a-5dab-11e2-ba99-00144feab49a.html#axzz2Ht6l7NGg

    “That is just a perception that there’s been a weaker leadership, it’s a perception that has built and people believe in it, but it’s totally out of order. We have taken very serious decisions,” he said. “At government level, we reconfigured government, we introduced new departments, we have been reshuffling ministers.”

    There have also been complaints about policy uncertainty and concerns that corruption is increasing as the ANC is plagued by ugly factionalism. Going forward he says: “South Africa is going to be different.”

    “There’s going to be infrastructure, education is going to be far better, we are going to reduce the levels of poverty, we are going to deal with inequality,” he said. “That’s the presidency you are going to be looking at.”

    I hope this time it is going to be for real.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Dmwangi is right. ALL Africans – with the exception of certain aberrants in Algeria, and some Coptics of Cairo – aspire in principle, although not always in fact, to the values of UBUNTU.

    This is true also of Slovenians, although not of other inhabitants of the Adriatic littoral.

    Thanks.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Dmwangi

    “Ubuntu is a cultural *ideal.* No one would have been foolish enough to suggest that there are no bad ppl amongst Africans and that all ~800M of us are perfect and practice Ubuntu all of the time.”

    Dmwangi is right. It is in the same spirit that I regard the whole of Europe for the past two millennia or so as having been a “Christian” culture — even though there have been occasional deviations from certain core tenets of Christianity such as “love your neighbour,” “do not kill”, and “give everything you own to the poor.”

    Thanks.

  • Alibama

    Dmwangi wrote:-
    } This is by far the most decisive issue facing the future of SA.
    Sure. It determines: employablity -} unemployment -} poverty -} inequality..etc.
    =Parental’s mention of Malawi’s relative success acknowledges the importance of
    the genetic factor; so does Zimbabwe’s education experience.
    The timing is remarkable: that the NATS handed the baby to their ememies just
    as it started to Diareah (sp?) from HIV and the Berlin-wall fell down and
    the cadres had ‘made the country ungovernable’ ruined-it-for-generations.

  • Mike

    @Maggs Naidu – I thought you guys had something better to do on the weekend.If you accept that there is more to this issue on Rivonia primary school then why are you bringing in your hangups about growing up in Durban as an Indian.
    Why dont you go all the way and bring up how the Indian busiman has exploited the ignorant blackman leading to INDIAN supremacy over the blackman in the KZN economy and the Cato Manor riots.
    What is a disgrace about the indian community, is that the biggest massacare in this country was not Sharpville but Cato Manor and yet the Indian population in KZN in order to appease the ANC have swept it under the carpet.
    I was down your way over the festive season and was struck by the fact that 90% of young people working in the shopping centres and banks were indians and yet as a minority you make up only 3% of the population.
    It is time to imbrace the new south africa Maggs, I in the construction industry and my wife in Standard Bank,worked with indians on an equal basis in Durban as far back as 1978, so on the issue of the Rivonia case stick to the facts.
    I personally deal with an Attorney who handles all the Rivonia primary school disciplinary procedures so I will check out your 24 pupils to a class claim.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 7:39 am

    Are you jealous Mike?

    Indians work hard and value eduction, why should they be constrained by their demographics? Same thing goes for Jews everywhere something – White Supremacists just cannot handle.

    You are sounding a lot like Herr Mngxitama now.

  • Brett Nortje

    +1!

    Blue Ozone says:
    January 14, 2013 at 7:52 am

    Indians work hard and value eduction, why should they be constrained by their demographics? Same thing goes for Jews everywhere

  • Brett Nortje

    But then you have to look at the latest Matric results. Afrikaans kids scored way high in all the provinces.

    Are they welcome at the universities their parents’ taxes help survive?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Brett Nortje
    January 14, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Not if you asked Herr Mngxitama. You would be doing so at your own peril, you can count yourself lucky that the African masses haven’t dealt with you yet.

    Pay your taxes and shut the fuck up. Better still just emigrate if you can.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 7:39 am

    Hayibo Mike,

    What’s better on a weekend than annoying Dm, Ozone Boy and Brett? No need to be jealous cos you can’t!

    What are you talking about “why are you bringing in your hangups about growing up in Durban as an Indian”???

    You’re confused about the Cato Manor riots – get your facts right then we can engage. How many people died during that horrific violence? I have several reports – so best you check carefully before you answer.

    So Indian youth work harder than WHITE youth – don’t get a bee in your bonnet, inspire your kids.

    You and your wife must be the only WHITE South Africans who “worked with Indians on an equal basis” – you get two Noddy badges, maybe the Nobel Prize.

    Re : “I personally deal with an Attorney who handles all the Rivonia primary school disciplinary procedures so I will check out your 24 pupils to a class claim.” – do that. If he tells you differently, he’s a doos. That quote is from the SCA judgement, which you’re commenting on without having read it.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – No indian youth dont work harder than white youths Maggs, they simply get preference over all the other race groups now that the management of the banks and stores like Game etc have filled there quota’s with previous historically disadvanted people.
    As a senior manager in a listed construction company I queried why I was only getting the CV’s from indian and african applicants and found that the lady receiving the CV’s who happened to by indian and our HR manager who happened to black were holding back from me CV’s of other race groups that being white and coloured and particular a young coloured chap from marianhill who had a distiction in every single subject in his final year of studies at ML Sultan.
    My information on Cato Manor comes from a slide show given by the Commandant of my regiment when I was still under conscription, Ray Lotter, who was a officer at the time with the Durban Light Infantry who’s HQ is in the middle of Greyville race course and I understood that over 200 hundred indians were murdered by blacks.
    Stop writing crap about the employment of indians in Durban because it is well documented that the Banks were employing indians in 1978.
    My own experience in joining Cemetation Africa Construction in 1979 based at Prospection in Isipingo was that the finacial manager with your same surname was an indian, he had no qualifications he had simply worked his way up from being a site clerk on a construction site which would not have happened over night.
    Time for the indian community in Durban to stop there lies and distorting the truth Maggs, your community had the most infrastructure spending on education from 1970 to 1984 from the NAT goverment out of any race group whereas after the boer war, which the indian community failed to rise up against the British Raj, the Afrikaaner had sweet fuck all.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Brett

    “have I ever told you the story about my Fabry cock Marv” [?]

    Brett, please bear in mind that children and young students come to this blog to learn about the Constitution. We owe it to them to keep our discussions clean.

    Thanks.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 8:50 am

    “Time for the indian community in Durban to stop there lies and distorting the truth Maggs, your community had the most infrastructure spending on education from 1970 to 1984 from the NAT goverment out of any race group whereas after the boer war, which the indian community failed to rise up against the British Raj, the Afrikaaner had sweet fuck all.”

    But the NDR demographic blueprint recognises all those facts Mike. What are you on about now? It talks about Blacks in general and Africans in particular

    Why do you think there are almost no Whites, Coloureds and Indians left in the ANC? No [sane] person wants to join a party that advocates disinvestment and the inevitable impoverishment of his own community.

    We should all stand united against such a draconian racial regime harping back to Verwoerd, what is the fucking point of your post then?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 8:50 am

    Hey Mike,

    “I understood that over 200 hundred indians were murdered by blacks.”

    Guess what?

    More Africans than Indians died by the end of the riots– 87 (including 6 women) as opposed to 46 Indians.

    http://abahlali.org/files/Narayanan_1949.pdf

    It’s more fun just saying anything that comes to mind, but wiser to get facts straight, I think!

    Of course banks were employing Indians in 1979 – other businesses too were employing Indians. You knew one fellow that was employed at senior level, big deal. You do know that the law as it existed then made sure that no WHITE person was subordinate to any Black person.

    BTW I was employed during that time by Hulett Aluminium, a subsidiary then of the Canadian based Alcan. Even though it was supposed to be a relatively senior post, I was not able to enter through the front door – I had to go though the side entrance, use the Indian toilet and cafetaria except when I was receiving high-profile foreign business-people then I was allowed ‘privileges’. It gets worse, but let’s leave it there for now.

    Please don’t talk kak about Indian education – it thrived because people then built their own schools which the then government tried to shut down. Nearly every temple had a school attached to it, financed by the communities. There were some state schools, but more state-aided schools.

    But you’re right in two respects, Africans received far less than Indians at the time.

    And the wankers, under Gandhi, were a disgrace. Gandhi, in my view was an embarrassment!

  • Brett Nortje

    That is disgusting!

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    January 14, 2013 at 9:18 am

    BTW I was employed during that time by Hulett Aluminium, a subsidiary then of the Canadian based Alcan. Even though it was supposed to be a relatively senior post, I was not able to enter through the front door – I had to go though the side entrance, use the Indian toilet and cafetaria

  • Mike

    @Maggs – sorry to embarass you about the truth relating to the past.Whilst you had a law in existence that no white person was subordinate to a black the reality was that in Cementation Africa in 1979 I was subjected to a black financial manager as it was he who paid me and allocated the company cars.
    I gave you one example but do you honestly expect me to have on record all the white anting of the aparthied laws that were going on in Durban at the time.
    Apartheid for the indians ended with the Tricameral goverment, that is where JZ’s Betsy Vivian Reddy initially got all his electrical contracts, but he still with the connivince of the Ethekweni municipality gets all the major electrical contracts.
    The NAT goverment built more than 150 indian schools in Chatsworth and Phoenix during the 1970’S, I know this from the tenders that were numbered as they came out and of course how Nazir Alli of SANRAL manage to embark on his career.
    You can rise up over how you were treated by ALCAN or your wallow in your pity but dont for one moment think that the afrikaner was treated any different by the British and lets not forget that the company you mentioned and most others in Durban as was the mangement of all the companies in Durban were British companies who recruited and promoted there own from britain over South Africans of all persuations as my father, an afrikaner found during 42 years of service to AECI at Umbogintwini where I grew up.
    So think carefully about who you want to blame for giving you a position in a company and then making you use an indian toilet, but dont extend that to the unborn whites of this country.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Where I live Afrikaners and Indians (mostly Muslim) have coexisted in peace for more many, many years – even during Apartheid.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Mike,

    You’re being disingenuous!

    Your first attempt was to present views that is devious, devoid of facts, truth and actual experience.

    To try and repackage me confronting that as me ‘wallowing in pity” is rather sneaky and devious. You know fully well that it was refuting your lie that Indian people were treated generally with any dignity, respect, equality.

    While what happened is history there is nothing more disgusting than what you’re trying to achieve.

    So far everything which you said are just plain lies – there for all to see.

    The more you try to spin it, the worse it gets.

    p.s. I challenge you to point out the 150 schools which were built in Chatsworth and Phoenix!

    p.p.s. I’m aware of Vivian Reddy’s “politics” – it does nothing to further the nonsense you’ve been spewing!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    PUBLIC ORDINARY SCHOOLS (1994)
    House of Assembly (White) 3 204
    House of Delegates (Indian) 464
    House of Representatives (‘coloured’) 1 958
    Department of Education and Training (African) 8 190
    Self-governing homelands (African) 6 698
    Independent homelands (African) 6 372
    TOTAL 26 886

  • Mike

    @Maggs – Go back to blog of January 11 12.29. This school is racist, why because it is controlled by a white school governing body. The school has been hijacked, why because it has a white governing body. The head mistress is racist, why because she is white and no decision by a white can possibly be correct.
    So we have a situation where a black women who lives in the south of JHB attempts to erol her child late (African time again) in a school in the north of JHB where she works and because the head mistress refuses the DBE gets involved suspends the WHITE head mistress and now after thousands of rand are spent the constitutional court is involved in what is clearly a case of black racism that is encountered on a daily basis.
    That what your blog supports and I make no apology for the fact that job discrimination started to be phased out for indians already in the late 1970’s.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    May be, here is good candidate for admission policy at golf clubs.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2013/01/14/brutal-attack-with-club-at-golf-course

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Mike,

    “That what your blog supports and I make no apology for the fact that job discrimination started to be phased out for indians already in the late 1970′s.”

    You’re talking crap.

    Stop pretending that you know what it was like for those of us who were not WHITE.

    It’s the worst kind of arrogant, racism!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 11:28 am

    “@Maggs – Go back to blog of January 11 12.29.”

    Which “blog” was that Mike. Can’t seem to find it, not on this thread?

  • Mike

    @ Blue Ozone – January 11th 12.29

  • Mike

    @ Maggs- No argument of mine states that, but dont try and bullshit that the situation in Durban had not profoundly started changing 34 years ago with employment opportunities.
    And dont try and make out that the Indian community are little angels when it is no secrect that the indian businessman where the biggest culprits in exploiting the black african.
    And dont try and defend the current ethic cleansing in the Banks,the Petrol Refinery’s, Municipalities et al in Durban of young white and coloured job seekers that is currently taking place.
    The discrimination you complain of was already in place when your forefathers arrived here but things where so good in spite of it nobody returened back to India, the same goes for the other half the indian population who arrived from East Africa during the 1950’s and 1960’s who chose SA in spite of apartheid instead of going back to India.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 13:51 pm

    Assume you mean January 11, 2013 at 17:14 pm?

    I can’t find any references to what you said where posted up there.

    I agree with this part though:

    “Those who move into a neighbourhood of these former model-C schools have very little option but to put up with the kak. It is completely unacceptable that state property is hijacked (with the aid of the Schools Act) much like the gated communities. If people want to have 20 kids per class they should start private schools.”

    However, what maggs have forgotten to mention is that many of these model-C schools are now predominantly black and they are run by black governing bodies. My 12-year old son (he has grown a bit) is in such an (English speaking) school. Interesting enough, these parents also want to keep teacher/student ratios low as far as possible, and even more interesting they tend to almost exclusively employ white teachers too.

    So ja. It is not such a simplistic race dynamic any more as Herr Mngxitama would like us all to believe. In fact what angers the Führer the most is that there are way too many “coconuts” in South Africa now fucking with his White Supremacist theories.

    http://proudlyafrikan.org/tag/andile-mngxitama/

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 14:04 pm

    LOL Mike,

    “but things where so good in spite of it nobody returened back to India”

    You’re dredging the bottom of the barrel in defense of your preposterous views!

    So why are you and many others like you still here, if things are as bad as you make out, if your argument has any merit?

    Where do I suggest that Indian businessmen were angels????

    BTW my grandparents were “indentured-labourers” on the sugar cane fields – and with the little they had accumulated, they had bought a farm in the now Queensborough – would you like to know what happened to that farm???

    Relatives of ours had thriving market-gardens (1/4 and 1/2 acre plots) in what is now Springfield Park – wanna know what happened to those???

    And Riverside in Durban???

    And Greyville???

    Other family had property in Cato Manor – wanna know what happened to that land???

    Please don’t tell me how wonderful you guys were!

    Anyway – I’m all for the “ethnic cleansing” in many sectors. My first job was in the lab at SAPREF. If you like I can tell you what it was like as I experienced it, particularly for African people there!

    You can hand it out with alacrity but can’t take it, eh!

  • Mike

    @Blue Ozone – should the constituional court even be dealing with this issue.The SCA is quiet capable of interpreting the ACTs that govern this issue and have done so.
    The Head Mistress is a dame good educator something that does not exist in the townships and yet she had to face the indignity of being suspended and her integrity dragged through the mud by being called a racist.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 14, 2013 at 14:15 pm

    Wow OB – this is twice in our lifetime that I have to say “well said!”

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 14, 2013 at 14:57 pm

    “Anyway – I’m all for the “ethnic cleansing” in many sectors. My first job was in the lab at SAPREF. If you like I can tell you what it was like as I experienced it, particularly for African people there!”

    You mean ethnic cleansing of Whites?

    How is having to use a separate door and toilet when you have a good paying managerial job morally comparable to “ethnic cleansing”. Where did Whites/Afrikaners ever advocating deporting or mass murdering Indians or Coloureds?

    Don’t worry, when Herr Mngxitama is finished with us he will be after you lot too and he would look moer like an Idi Amin than a PW Botha . And you pretty much know that.

  • Gwebecimele

    How much does it cost to oppress a darkie, well not much R30 000.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2013/01/14/apartheid-victims-fight-on

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 14, 2013 at 15:53 pm

    “The Khulumani Support Group, which is campaigning for “adequate reparations”, has a list of 100000 victims – many of whom were not on the commission’s list.

    Marjorie Jobson, Khulumani’s national director, said that, instead of having scales of compensation for different violations, there should be a standard grant of R120000 paid over five years.”

    That works out to about 2 mil times R 6000. Could easily be done, but I don’t agree with the idea that you can just “pay-off” Apartheid crimes, it requires no buy in and is an artificial token of reconciliation much like Tutu’s wealth tax.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 14, 2013 at 15:48 pm

    Hey Ozone Boy,

    “Where did Whites/Afrikaners ever advocating deporting or mass murdering Indians or Coloureds?”

    You clearly are ignorant or lying!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 14, 2013 at 16:41 pm

    So then why did they employ you in a senior managerial position? You just confessed that. You are the liar, the only Indians that were deported en mass where in places like Uganda and other east African countries.

    Why do you do this?

  • Mike

    @Maggs – I am here because i was born here and nobody will force me leave the country of my birth. Why dont you include what happened to the land whites owned in Isipingo beach, oh my have we forgotten that they too had to sell their properties to indians nogal.
    SAPREF has been the most progressive employer with employing indians and lately the most racist employer against whites.
    You are trying introduce argument that was never argued, I worked in SAPREF with the construction companies so have first hand experience of the AA changes that incurred 20 years ago.
    Yes tell us what happened to all this land and when it was appropriated by the Nat goverment because it will not change one iota that we are living in 2013 not the 1960’s.
    Would you like to know what happened to the Afrikaner farms when your relatives had already arrived, well they were burnt to the ground and all there quipment such as wagons and carriages were conficated, the IOU’s reneged upon resulting in the economic and physical destruction of entire communities.
    All that Maggs while your relatives were already established here and not one. and I repeat not fucking word of protest from indian community.
    So dont expect the afrikaner to have been your friend when your relatives fraternised with the Brirish against them.
    See how selective history can be.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 14, 2013 at 16:54 pm

    LOL Mike – you want me to sympathise with the then Afrikaner fight with the British?

    Get a life!

    Isipingo was swopped for the best parts of Durban Morningside, Berea, Durban North and more – and as part of the policy of your forebears to buffer Whites from Africans.

    p.s. You seem to be unaware also that it was the ANC (involving Luthuli, Xama and Champion among others) with the NIC & TIC who worked together in trying to pacify the violence of the 1849 Riots while the Riot Commission had heard of Whites then stoking the troubles including reports of many having blackened themselves with shoepolish or whatever to become party to the brutality.

  • Brett Nortje

    Errr? Maggs?

    You haven’t mentioned Nehru’s Navy yet….

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 14, 2013 at 17:31 pm

    Hey B,

    Part II !!!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ 翻译公司,重庆翻译公司,重庆多语翻译公司

    “obviously, thanks for your sweat”

    Maggs, who is he thanking here? Ozoneboy?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    January 14, 2013 at 22:11 pm

    Dworky,

    Maybe the sweat-loving guy is thanking our boy from Potch.

    But WDYSTT?

    Olds was right – there are Indian dogs. The Dingo!

    JR – we’re coming for you next.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/scitech/2013/01/15/ancient-indians-discovered-australia-4-000-years-ago-research

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    So Dmwangi,

    Is Comrade Jackson telling the truth?

    “The ANC supports the call made by President Zuma that ‘businesses that support the ANC will prosper’. It is a sad fact that Lindiwe Mazibuko is so naive when it comes to African traditions that she cannot relate to them. It is our tradition as Africans that if someone gives you something, in return you thank him/her and wish them prosperity and abundance,” ANC spokesman Jackson Mthembu said in a statement.

  • Brett Nortje

    Wasn’t this cretin one of those who was really outraged that an artist would turn ANC into a for sale sign?

  • Mike

    @Maggs – Neither Morningside Durban North or the Berea were swopped for Isispingo. I had relatives living in those areas at the time and I lived off Berea Road and Tony Leon in Glenwood.
    Your relatives came to South Africa from a very low caste system in India and they were allow to escape that form of discrimanation that even Ghandi supported which is why he was killed by an Indian and not a train conductor.
    This story that the 1948 riots was instigated by whites is a another third force fairytale by indians to exonerate their new black african masters from their culpabity of these atrocities.
    Not a clever move by the indian community to dream up shit like this and blame the whites for instigating the 1948 massacares when clearly the black man got tired of being screwed by the indian. Perhaps you would want to ectend this fairytale to Uganda as well.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – Another fact the indian community would like to dwell viz a viz Nehru threat to attack Durban at that time is that during the second world war half the Indian army mutineed and joined the Japanese.
    My source for this statement is the book The Rise and Fall of the Britisk Empire by Lawrence James.
    No matter where indians have lived around the world your nation has never owed allegiance to any of those countries, you guys are all for yourselves and that is why Durban Municpalty from being one of the three most most solvent in the world is now bankrupt.

  • Brett Nortje

    Mike, stop attacking a central pillar of Maggs’ belief system.

    Didn’t you know the Indian Navy was lying hull down with their guns trained on Durban CBD waiting for Nehru’s commmand to open fire when the racist regime cried ‘uncle’ (OK, ‘Oom’) and recalled all the whites smeared with shoe-polish?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 15, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Mike,

    re : “This story that the 1948 riots was instigated by whites is a another third force fairytale by indians to exonerate their new black african masters from their culpabity of these atrocities.”

    I think you’re quite mad. Go read the Riot Commission Report!

    Re “Your relatives came to South Africa from a very low caste system in India and they were allow to escape that form of discrimanation that even Ghandi supported which is why he was killed by an Indian and not a train conductor.”

    My paternal grandfather ran away from India as an adventurous 14 year old while his parents were out for the day. He was an only child from a relatively affluent family. The family farm is still in his name although he is long dead. So don’t talk crap.

    Re “I had relatives living in those areas at the time and I lived off Berea Road and Tony Leon in Glenwood” – I had relatives living in Youngs Avenue, North Street, may Street, Manning Avenue!!!!!!!

    LMAO on “half the Indian army mutineed and joined the Japanese”.

    re “No matter where indians have lived around the world your nation has never owed allegiance to any of those countries” – hmmm. Even in India?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mike
    January 15, 2013 at 9:22 am

    So what is the final solution mike? Are gas chambers a part of it, I mean people like you are just so full of racist hatred. Then you climb on public forums like this and moan and groan about all the injustices against the white man and the boers.

    You are doing your argument no favours, my friend.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Brett Nortje
    January 15, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Please explain in more what you believe happened there. I don’t understand none of what you are trying to say. or please provide a credible link.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “Is Comrade Jackson telling the truth?”

    Yes, and it is a sentiment I have long endorsed. Mazibuko has put a great deal of distance between herself and our cultural heritage. And typically, the liberal press has taken the words of President Zuma out of context. He was predicting that those businesses which support the ANC will prosper. He did not say that prosperity would flow as a consequence of their support. Even Mazibuko should know that correlation does not equal causation.

    I find it sad that the WHITIST culture of atomised preference-maximising individualism has colonised the mind of Ms Mazibuko.

  • Gwebecimele

    May be they will pay him R30 000 just like our government.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/sport/2013/01/15/arrest-made-over-racist-golf-attack

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    Maggs, apropos that, are you familiar of the amazing story in which a young man from a middle class family who, having left India, found himself alone on a small boat with a ferocious Bengal tiger which, it turned out, was nothing more than an imaginative projection of his own ego?

    Think about it.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 15, 2013 at 9:22 am

    Mike,

    “that is why Durban Municpalty from being one of the three most most solvent in the world is now bankrupt.”

    It’s true – last time I checked, Dr Mike Sutcliffe was Indian!

    Do you think he still is?

    “No matter where indians have lived around the world your nation has never owed allegiance to any of those countries”

    Yeah – I hear that Singapore, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritius has no and has not every had Indians at any level of allegiance let alone national leadership.

    Your attempt to use Uganda under the mad Idi Amin as an example to try to create a political wedge between Africans and Indians in South Africa is pretty much what people like you have been doing all along – the 1949 riots at it’s peak. Of course you sneakily ignore the fact that Museveni has been actively wooing Indians back to Uganda!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 15, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Ozone Boy,

    Let’s wait to hear from Mike how kind his kind were to Papwa Sewgolum when he beat Gary Player.

    Apparently the clubhouse roof was leaking, so the WHITE people presented the trophy to Papwa outside, in the rain, so that Papwa not get wet and not because of their deep seated bigotry!

  • Brett Nortje

    Blue Ozone says:
    January 15, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Nee!

    Hamba sebenzi!

  • Brett Nortje

    Huh? Weet jy wat ‘n ‘non-sequitur’ is?

    Blue Ozone says:
    January 15, 2013 at 9:49 am

    So what is the final solution mike? Are gas chambers a part of it,

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
    January 15, 2013 at 10:07 am

    “Your attempt to use Uganda under the mad Idi Amin as an example *to try to create a political wedge between Africans and Indians* in South Africa is pretty much what people like you have been doing all along – the 1949 riots at it’s peak. Of course you sneakily ignore the fact that Museveni has been actively wooing Indians back to Uganda!”

    I believe the ANC are doing a damn good job at create a political wedge between Africans and Whites/Indians/Coloureds themselves. Stop blaming that on Whites, just like you continue to blame everything else on Whites. That is a tired old tactic and it is simply not going to work for you any more.

    Instead I would get on my knees and pray if I was you. See what one of your Black African colleagues have to say on the M&G blog:

    “What I fear most is the change among my African brothers and sisters where upon realising that they are being taken for a ride in the quest for reconciliation because their white counterparts are reluctant to change they will use the Mau Mau tactics or the 1949 ‘coons are killing the coolies’ offensives. I pray everyday that such does not happen and the ANC succeeds in uniting our people: the true South Africans!”

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-01-11-00-theres-no-unlearning-whiteness-despite-what-anti-racists-say

    Do not forget that Herr Mngxitama is also the “policy advisor” of the “Foundation for Human Rights” sponsored by the SA government – so he is by no means a marginalised “mad” man. You would also note not a single Black voice logging in there to express disagreement or concerns. That is where this country is heading to boet, and once these genocide fascists are finished with the Whites – they are coming for you Indians too, there can be very little doubt about that.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Blue Ozone
    January 15, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Hey WHITE Boy,

    “That is a tired old tactic and it is simply not going to work for you any more.”

    It’s working well.

    It got Mike and his brand of racism out the woodwork, didn’t it?

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Blue-Guy

    “Herr Mngxitama is also the “policy advisor”

    It puzzles me that you call Mr Mngxitama “Herr.” He is proudly AFRICAN, and by no means a Teutonic WHITIST. Also, I think we owe Mngxitama a debt of gratitude — for clarifying that Schutte/Vice’s chest-bearing and whining are unwelcome liberal gestures. They should SHUT UP now about matter that do not concern them.

    Thanks.

  • Gwebecimele
  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    January 15, 2013 at 13:37 pm

    Correct. What “we” should do is lodge a complaint with the SAHRC. Also seek clarification from the South African government who sponsors this “Foundation for Human Rights”.

    Followed up with letters expressing our concerns to the relevant donors including the Ford foundation, the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation and Development Cooperation Ireland. All those White people who paying Mngxitama’s salary.

  • Maggs Naidu

    Blue Boy,

    “they are coming for you Indians too, there can be very little doubt about that.”

    Who are “they”???

    P.s. So you, Mike and others like you need me to provide you lot with comfort and you think that I will provide it, eh! Got news for you – enjoy the fruit of apartheid all by yourselves.

    And thanks for your “concern” about our well-being – we’ve done ok for thousands of years so we’ll take care of ourselves for millenia to come.

  • Mike

    @MAGGS – The indian community has presented themselves as champions of the oppressed ie black african when in fact some of the hard facts presented to you in these exchanges have touched a nerve of the lies and double dealing of your community.
    Your response to criticism by a white is the same as much of the blacks in this country and that is to play the race card.
    As I have said previously, and you have falling for the bait without realising it, history can be very selective isnt it.It can can jusitfy all sorts of self interest in the present tense and it is clear from your responses that you subscribe to that.
    The indian community are on there own, your only benefactere is JZ as long as he is a benefacter from the indian businessmen, I suggest however that you obtain a copy of the latest Finweek and read the article on South Korea, because that is where this country is heading, and that includes its defragmentation, where at the end of the day it will be about the mobilization of capital, hard work and an educated workforce

  • Gwebecimele

    Where was this parent during the textbook saga?? Can we send him to some of the departments.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2013/01/16/school-head-assaulted-by-angry-parent

  • Gwebecimele

    Put this man on a school governing body. Where was this parent during the textbook saga?? Can we send him to some of the departments.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2013/01/16/school-head-assaulted-by-angry-parent

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 16, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Mike,

    “@MAGGS – The indian community has presented themselves as champions of the oppressed ie black african”

    That is one of the biggest load of bullshit to come from you yet!

    Where, when, how did the Indian community do this?

    I have not yet come across the thinking that African people need Indian messiahs, let alone Jeremy Cronin (aka the WHITE messiah).

    Please do share.

    Re : “the hard facts presented to you in these exchanges” – show me one single hard fact that you presented????

    Re “The indian community are on there own” – LMAO. Where you trying to present yourself as the representative of WHITE people with the mandate of protecting Indian people?

    Mike – I think you’re in need of some serious psychiatric help. To steal a phrase from Comrade Minister Blade – you’re not quite right upstairs!

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