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	<title>Comments on: Who will replace Judge Madala?</title>
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	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Mrs Smith</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7329</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7329</guid>
		<description>The imminent vacancy on the Constitutional Court bench will be advertised for a third time, after last week’s interviews failed to produce the constitutionally mandated number of candidates for the president’s consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The imminent vacancy on the Constitutional Court bench will be advertised for a third time, after last week’s interviews failed to produce the constitutionally mandated number of candidates for the president’s consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7133</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7133</guid>
		<description>lindelani (and all the others opining on the racial slurr thing):
 &quot;In fact, nothing has been said about Baird’s statement (alleged), nothing at all. But something was said about Motata’s statement (alleged).

There hasn’t been any double-standard application at all. We have single standard approach.

Double standard approach is applicable where you’re weighing or applying two different assessment tests. In this case there’s nothing said to Baird.&quot;

I must confess, I haven&#039;t read further than this remark by lindelani, but I do think some comment is called for. 

Remember, the witnesses tell their story to court, they are cross examined, and so the whole story unfolds until the end, when it is the presiding officer that has to hand down judgment. This is much different than what is the case where you have an affidavit (or complaint) and pleadings or a judgment to comment on - such as the Hlophe saga. To choose the one side or the other and to accuse and counter accuse of &#039;double standards&#039; just because some witness said in court that another witness made racial remarks towards the accused while the trial is still in progress is wholly inappropriate. First of all, one should remember that, even had Baird uttered those words, that would not detract from the evidence that Motata J was in fact stoned (intoxicating tea?) when he caused the accident. (In fact, the video material, which was first found admissible by the trial court and, on appeal, by the Hhigh Court, strongly suggests that Motata J was as drunk as a skunk when the video recording was made.) Secondly, one should remember that this witness has apparently not mentioned the fact (fact or fiction?) that Baird used those words in her witness statement (-s) to the police. Baird has not yet testified in the main trial, only during the &#039;trial within a trial&#039; to determine the admissibility of the video material. He has therefore not had any chance to respond to this witness&#039; allegations. Quite interesting though, the defence have never suggested during the trial within a trial that Baird was racially biased and tha there ies a witness that could testify to that effect. Instead, I think it was quite commpon cause that baird, when he greeted Mopotata J (when he opened his eyes) said: &quot;Good evening Judge&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lindelani (and all the others opining on the racial slurr thing):<br />
 &#8220;In fact, nothing has been said about Baird’s statement (alleged), nothing at all. But something was said about Motata’s statement (alleged).</p>
<p>There hasn’t been any double-standard application at all. We have single standard approach.</p>
<p>Double standard approach is applicable where you’re weighing or applying two different assessment tests. In this case there’s nothing said to Baird.&#8221;</p>
<p>I must confess, I haven&#8217;t read further than this remark by lindelani, but I do think some comment is called for. </p>
<p>Remember, the witnesses tell their story to court, they are cross examined, and so the whole story unfolds until the end, when it is the presiding officer that has to hand down judgment. This is much different than what is the case where you have an affidavit (or complaint) and pleadings or a judgment to comment on &#8211; such as the Hlophe saga. To choose the one side or the other and to accuse and counter accuse of &#8216;double standards&#8217; just because some witness said in court that another witness made racial remarks towards the accused while the trial is still in progress is wholly inappropriate. First of all, one should remember that, even had Baird uttered those words, that would not detract from the evidence that Motata J was in fact stoned (intoxicating tea?) when he caused the accident. (In fact, the video material, which was first found admissible by the trial court and, on appeal, by the Hhigh Court, strongly suggests that Motata J was as drunk as a skunk when the video recording was made.) Secondly, one should remember that this witness has apparently not mentioned the fact (fact or fiction?) that Baird used those words in her witness statement (-s) to the police. Baird has not yet testified in the main trial, only during the &#8216;trial within a trial&#8217; to determine the admissibility of the video material. He has therefore not had any chance to respond to this witness&#8217; allegations. Quite interesting though, the defence have never suggested during the trial within a trial that Baird was racially biased and tha there ies a witness that could testify to that effect. Instead, I think it was quite commpon cause that baird, when he greeted Mopotata J (when he opened his eyes) said: &#8220;Good evening Judge&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7097</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7097</guid>
		<description>Z - But, Andrea will also fit the charge.

Sne - I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z &#8211; But, Andrea will also fit the charge.</p>
<p>Sne &#8211; I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Sne</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7095</link>
		<dc:creator>Sne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Pierre De Vos // Oct 16, 2008 at 1:39 pm
.........................................................................

Thank you Prof. That sums it all up nicely...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pierre De Vos // Oct 16, 2008 at 1:39 pm<br />
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Thank you Prof. That sums it all up nicely&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7087</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7087</guid>
		<description>Z - No, I think it must&#039;ve been the person who called himself &#039;Africannabis&#039;, since he mysteriously disappeared more than a year ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z &#8211; No, I think it must&#8217;ve been the person who called himself &#8216;Africannabis&#8217;, since he mysteriously disappeared more than a year ago.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7086</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7086</guid>
		<description>Pierre

Was that one person Andrea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pierre</p>
<p>Was that one person Andrea?</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre De Vos</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7085</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre De Vos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 11:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The comments section on this Blog is very diverse and extremely lively: sometimes very well informed and sometimes clueless, sometimes reasoned and sometimes hot-headed. When I started this Blog I decided that as a believer in freedom of expression I will not censor the views of participants - no matter how extreme - unless I believe the views are so incendiary that they would incite actual harm. So I have only banned one person from the Blog in the two years it has been running. When I don&#039;t like views or think they are hateful I sometimes just ignore them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments section on this Blog is very diverse and extremely lively: sometimes very well informed and sometimes clueless, sometimes reasoned and sometimes hot-headed. When I started this Blog I decided that as a believer in freedom of expression I will not censor the views of participants &#8211; no matter how extreme &#8211; unless I believe the views are so incendiary that they would incite actual harm. So I have only banned one person from the Blog in the two years it has been running. When I don&#8217;t like views or think they are hateful I sometimes just ignore them.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbie</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7079</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7079</guid>
		<description>For those that haven&#039;t followed the comments, refer back to the first comment by lindelani maseko to understand the context of my statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those that haven&#8217;t followed the comments, refer back to the first comment by lindelani maseko to understand the context of my statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Abbie</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7078</link>
		<dc:creator>Abbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7078</guid>
		<description>&quot;I wish someone should step in but it looks like some black guy will step in!

That would be catastrophic we don’t need black judges at this stage.

Black judges hate white people with passion, if you white appearing before the black judge you guaranteed of the adverse verdict no matter what.

Even if you not guilty the black judge will make sure and try by all means to make you (white) guilty.

So a white man appearing before a black judge is just wasting his time by trying to defend himself. If I were to appear before the black judge I wouldn’t bother presenting my case whether I am guilty or not I would ask the black judge to pass the sentence.

I would request to be sentenced without making any presentation because it would be a waist of time. I would be guaranteed the adverse verdict.

A white man appearing before the black judge is not only facing the defense but he’s also facing the judge.

Look at the Hlope matter, judgment passed along racial lines if the majority of the judges were blacks Hlope’s application would have been dismissed.

Black judges discuss legal matters in bars (especially if the white is involved) and make their decisions in there.&quot;


When one race slams another race they will be slammed back.  The term “racism&quot; lost its punch.  That&#039;s a pity, because it would have been nice to be able to have done something about racism.  South Africa&#039;s opportunity lost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wish someone should step in but it looks like some black guy will step in!</p>
<p>That would be catastrophic we don’t need black judges at this stage.</p>
<p>Black judges hate white people with passion, if you white appearing before the black judge you guaranteed of the adverse verdict no matter what.</p>
<p>Even if you not guilty the black judge will make sure and try by all means to make you (white) guilty.</p>
<p>So a white man appearing before a black judge is just wasting his time by trying to defend himself. If I were to appear before the black judge I wouldn’t bother presenting my case whether I am guilty or not I would ask the black judge to pass the sentence.</p>
<p>I would request to be sentenced without making any presentation because it would be a waist of time. I would be guaranteed the adverse verdict.</p>
<p>A white man appearing before the black judge is not only facing the defense but he’s also facing the judge.</p>
<p>Look at the Hlope matter, judgment passed along racial lines if the majority of the judges were blacks Hlope’s application would have been dismissed.</p>
<p>Black judges discuss legal matters in bars (especially if the white is involved) and make their decisions in there.&#8221;</p>
<p>When one race slams another race they will be slammed back.  The term “racism&#8221; lost its punch.  That&#8217;s a pity, because it would have been nice to be able to have done something about racism.  South Africa&#8217;s opportunity lost.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/who-will-replace-judge-madala/#comment-7069</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=699#comment-7069</guid>
		<description>John, 

Believe me, I understand exactly what you are saying.  My very first comment on this blog was with regard to Lindelani and his rantings.  Needless to say, I got nailed and eventually just moved on from it.

Everyone, for the most part, ignores Lindelani.  You are correct in your assertion that he does nothing to contribute to the debate and the majority of his entries (rants?) are pro-Zuma and his acolytes or anti-everyone who is not pro-Zuma or Zulu.

As irritating and frustrating as it is, nothing you say will have any effect on him so the best course of action is to just ignore him.  By giving any attention to him, you merely give him more of an opportunity to deliver his bile and hate.

As Sne said above, even if he were blocked, he&#039;d probably find another means of getting on here.  He comments all over the web anyway and does the same thing as he does here.  He honestly isn&#039;t worth the effort!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, </p>
<p>Believe me, I understand exactly what you are saying.  My very first comment on this blog was with regard to Lindelani and his rantings.  Needless to say, I got nailed and eventually just moved on from it.</p>
<p>Everyone, for the most part, ignores Lindelani.  You are correct in your assertion that he does nothing to contribute to the debate and the majority of his entries (rants?) are pro-Zuma and his acolytes or anti-everyone who is not pro-Zuma or Zulu.</p>
<p>As irritating and frustrating as it is, nothing you say will have any effect on him so the best course of action is to just ignore him.  By giving any attention to him, you merely give him more of an opportunity to deliver his bile and hate.</p>
<p>As Sne said above, even if he were blocked, he&#8217;d probably find another means of getting on here.  He comments all over the web anyway and does the same thing as he does here.  He honestly isn&#8217;t worth the effort!!!</p>
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