<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why Malema&#8217;s hate speech judgment is wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/</link>
	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 10:47:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Louw</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-59599</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Louw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-59599</guid>
		<description>De Vos, you are such an idiot! No wonder you are merely a professor, and will probably stay one for a long time to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>De Vos, you are such an idiot! No wonder you are merely a professor, and will probably stay one for a long time to come.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mimi</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-52229</link>
		<dc:creator>Mimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-52229</guid>
		<description>I do believe all situations should be viewed at holistically. Adopting this measure of scrutiny will enable us to see things clearly. Looking at small pieces of a puzzle with a magnifying glass and then trying to make sense of the whole scene is ridiculous. 

This is exactly what is refered to as narrow-minded. Of couse Hate speech is defined in the Act as &quot;words based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, (in other words, words based on race, sex, gender or sexual orientation, say) against any person that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to be hurtful; be harmful or to incite harm; or promote or propagate hatred,&quot; and if you measure Malemas outburst against the alleged raped women it would fail the test of being considered Hate Speech.

However, who is Julius Malema? What role does he play in society? What role does he play with the youth of South Africa? On which platform did he choose to deliver his opinion? I&#039;m referring to &quot;You don’t ask for taxi money from somebody who raped you.&quot;

Taking all this into account leads me to one conclusion. Our constitution needs to be revisited. It&#039;s failing to do what I know it set out to. Heal and protect this land and its people.

How can that statement, spoken at that place, by a public figure, do anything but harm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe all situations should be viewed at holistically. Adopting this measure of scrutiny will enable us to see things clearly. Looking at small pieces of a puzzle with a magnifying glass and then trying to make sense of the whole scene is ridiculous. </p>
<p>This is exactly what is refered to as narrow-minded. Of couse Hate speech is defined in the Act as &#8220;words based on one or more of the prohibited grounds, (in other words, words based on race, sex, gender or sexual orientation, say) against any person that could reasonably be construed to demonstrate a clear intention to be hurtful; be harmful or to incite harm; or promote or propagate hatred,&#8221; and if you measure Malemas outburst against the alleged raped women it would fail the test of being considered Hate Speech.</p>
<p>However, who is Julius Malema? What role does he play in society? What role does he play with the youth of South Africa? On which platform did he choose to deliver his opinion? I&#8217;m referring to &#8220;You don’t ask for taxi money from somebody who raped you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Taking all this into account leads me to one conclusion. Our constitution needs to be revisited. It&#8217;s failing to do what I know it set out to. Heal and protect this land and its people.</p>
<p>How can that statement, spoken at that place, by a public figure, do anything but harm.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-51255</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-51255</guid>
		<description>this is all about racism and hate speech so thts how it stands then as 4u whity whites where do u thnk ths will evr make a dffrnce frm calling black ppl kaffirs hhhuu?tht doesnt refer only to malema bt all blacks.how would u feel if i call u &lt;A&gt;how does tht feel mmmh?nice,bad?bad i guess so u bettr thnk twice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is all about racism and hate speech so thts how it stands then as 4u whity whites where do u thnk ths will evr make a dffrnce frm calling black ppl kaffirs hhhuu?tht doesnt refer only to malema bt all blacks.how would u feel if i call u <a>how does tht feel mmmh?nice,bad?bad i guess so u bettr thnk twice</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: On killing the boers and prosecuting Juju &#171; Akanyang Africa</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-47248</link>
		<dc:creator>On killing the boers and prosecuting Juju &#171; Akanyang Africa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-47248</guid>
		<description>[...] de Vos, a University of Cape Town Constitutional law expert said the ruling against Juju was wrong as it meant no one could say anything rude about anyone while [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] de Vos, a University of Cape Town Constitutional law expert said the ruling against Juju was wrong as it meant no one could say anything rude about anyone while [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ms Phiri</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-27945</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Phiri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-27945</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if your response was directed at me. If you called Julius Malema &quot;another dumb kaffir&quot;, I&#039;d argue that:

- Your reference of &quot;ANOTHER&quot;, implies that you are NOT addressing Malema but basing your utterance on OTHER &#039;kaffirs&#039;, which would imply that your comment consolidated social relations of dominance and subordination. Malema would only qualify as an INSTANCE of your ongoing racism.
- Then there is the word kaffir which in itself is coloured by racism (not that calling someone &#039;bitch&#039; is a bit more complex to argue. It is an inappropriate use of language but it is hard to prove. For example, if I called Winnie Mandela &#039;bitch&#039;, it constitutes as defamation of character. To say it is not hate speech is not to assume that is it acceptable. But I believe that this discussion is on &#039;hate speech&#039; and not other lingual misconducts. If someone said, &quot;women are bitches and they have no place here&quot;, because I&#039;m addressing a non-specific person (but women in general&quot;, the scenario thickens.

Julius Malema&#039;s song of &quot;burn the boer&quot; is a more straightforward &#039;hate speech&#039; than the comment discussed here for 2 reasons. To call it hate speech is not to take away his freedom of speech but to highlight the misuse of that right in reference to others:

- One may argue consequences that Julius&#039; utterance brought about, but even that must be proven to be direct.
- The context which the song was sung (or its historical context)
- The intent may be easier proven because hate speeches are SINGLE utterances which are NOT ISOLATED, as in they feed on preexistent sexism-racism-tribalism-etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if your response was directed at me. If you called Julius Malema &#8220;another dumb kaffir&#8221;, I&#8217;d argue that:</p>
<p>- Your reference of &#8220;ANOTHER&#8221;, implies that you are NOT addressing Malema but basing your utterance on OTHER &#8216;kaffirs&#8217;, which would imply that your comment consolidated social relations of dominance and subordination. Malema would only qualify as an INSTANCE of your ongoing racism.<br />
- Then there is the word kaffir which in itself is coloured by racism (not that calling someone &#8216;bitch&#8217; is a bit more complex to argue. It is an inappropriate use of language but it is hard to prove. For example, if I called Winnie Mandela &#8216;bitch&#8217;, it constitutes as defamation of character. To say it is not hate speech is not to assume that is it acceptable. But I believe that this discussion is on &#8216;hate speech&#8217; and not other lingual misconducts. If someone said, &#8220;women are bitches and they have no place here&#8221;, because I&#8217;m addressing a non-specific person (but women in general&#8221;, the scenario thickens.</p>
<p>Julius Malema&#8217;s song of &#8220;burn the boer&#8221; is a more straightforward &#8216;hate speech&#8217; than the comment discussed here for 2 reasons. To call it hate speech is not to take away his freedom of speech but to highlight the misuse of that right in reference to others:</p>
<p>- One may argue consequences that Julius&#8217; utterance brought about, but even that must be proven to be direct.<br />
- The context which the song was sung (or its historical context)<br />
- The intent may be easier proven because hate speeches are SINGLE utterances which are NOT ISOLATED, as in they feed on preexistent sexism-racism-tribalism-etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ding Dong</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-27821</link>
		<dc:creator>Ding Dong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2010 16:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-27821</guid>
		<description>Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab So I guess it&#039;s my freedom of speach and my constitutional right to call Julius Malema just another dumb Kaffier !!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab Blab So I guess it&#8217;s my freedom of speach and my constitutional right to call Julius Malema just another dumb Kaffier !!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ms Phiri</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-27590</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms Phiri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-27590</guid>
		<description>This is rather interesting. However, most of you focused on Zuma&#039;s innocence/guilt than Malema&#039;s speech. I believe the speech itself, in broad sense, is inappropriate. To prove Malema&#039;s speech as hate speech requires that we untie our emotional strings with Zuma (whether we approve the man or not). I am not suggesting that we ignore the context, but that we must not forget that the focus is Malema&#039;s speech.

Intentions are hard to prove. Malema&#039;s intention could have been to encourage stereotypes or, in his own way, to reinforce Zuma&#039;s innocence, one cannot measure for certain.

Although Malema&#039;s speech is wrong at so many levels, wrongness is not synonymous to hate speech. I am not saying Malema&#039;s utterance is not hate speech, I am merely stating that our rationale in rendering it so needs not be based on a premise, for example, of morality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is rather interesting. However, most of you focused on Zuma&#8217;s innocence/guilt than Malema&#8217;s speech. I believe the speech itself, in broad sense, is inappropriate. To prove Malema&#8217;s speech as hate speech requires that we untie our emotional strings with Zuma (whether we approve the man or not). I am not suggesting that we ignore the context, but that we must not forget that the focus is Malema&#8217;s speech.</p>
<p>Intentions are hard to prove. Malema&#8217;s intention could have been to encourage stereotypes or, in his own way, to reinforce Zuma&#8217;s innocence, one cannot measure for certain.</p>
<p>Although Malema&#8217;s speech is wrong at so many levels, wrongness is not synonymous to hate speech. I am not saying Malema&#8217;s utterance is not hate speech, I am merely stating that our rationale in rendering it so needs not be based on a premise, for example, of morality.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nkululeko</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-26992</link>
		<dc:creator>nkululeko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-26992</guid>
		<description>If Julius spoke in general terms and the victim in question was affected, it is not for us to draw lines in the sand and distinguish between harm and hurt. The opportunity to curb such ridiculous bahaviour by Malema and his ilk cannot escape us. 
At any rate, is it not a manner of interpretation? Why shouldn&#039;t we use a wider interpretetion when the protection of vulnerable goups is concerned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Julius spoke in general terms and the victim in question was affected, it is not for us to draw lines in the sand and distinguish between harm and hurt. The opportunity to curb such ridiculous bahaviour by Malema and his ilk cannot escape us.<br />
At any rate, is it not a manner of interpretation? Why shouldn&#8217;t we use a wider interpretetion when the protection of vulnerable goups is concerned?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ehud Olmert</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-26777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ehud Olmert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-26777</guid>
		<description>Sad State of affairs :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sad State of affairs <img src='http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ehud Olmert</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/why-malemas-hate-speech-judgment-is-wrong/#comment-26776</link>
		<dc:creator>Ehud Olmert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 06:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=2077#comment-26776</guid>
		<description>http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-03-19-keeping-it-in-the-family

Apologies to the SA nation for all his mistakes is what this president has been about since taking office  &gt;&gt; 

There have been no apologies to the SA nation for lack of jobs &amp; service delivery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-03-19-keeping-it-in-the-family" rel="nofollow">http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-03-19-keeping-it-in-the-family</a></p>
<p>Apologies to the SA nation for all his mistakes is what this president has been about since taking office  &gt;&gt; </p>
<p>There have been no apologies to the SA nation for lack of jobs &amp; service delivery?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

