There is no doubt that the media is facing the greatest threat to its freedom since the advent of democracy. The proposed Protection of Information Bill and Media Appeals Tribunal, the proposed Protection from Harassment Bill (which thankfully seems to have been put on hold), the proposed Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Amendment Bill and the proposed Public Broadcasting Service Bill all aim to tighten the control of the government over the free flow of information.
We are far from the dark days of apartheid (see picture below) when the Nationalist government muzzled the press to try and retain its illegitimate power. We live in a constitutional democracy now and our courts will probably play a pivotal role in preventing the muzzling of the media (or will at least limit the effectiveness of such attempts). They will do so, because most judges understand that the free flow of information is, of course, the lifeblood of any democracy.
The question is: why now? Why is the government of the day orchestrating this concerted effort to change the way in which our media report on government activities? It is tempting to find an answer by turning to the personalities involved and arguing that President Zuma and other ANC leaders are upset about how the media has reported on their own activities and actions. But another reason for this attack on the media suggests itself and can be found in the utterances and documents of the ruling party itself.
Perhaps the move against the free media is based on a realistic acknowledgement on the part of the ANC that it is facing a crisis of legitimacy. It seems incapable of addressing this crisis, so some of its leaders might believe that the only way to deal with the problem is to stop the reporting on events that has precipitated this crisis.
I offer a few quotes below to illustrate this point. President Jacob Zuma at a March 2008 National Executive Committee (NEC) Meeting:
When elected leaders at the highest level openly engage in factionalist activity, where is the movement that aims to unite the people of South Africa for the complete liberation of the country from all forms of discrimination and national oppression? When money changes hands in the battle for personal power and aggrandizement, where is the movement that is built around membership that joins without motives of material advantage and personal gain? When the members of the NEC themselves engage in factionalist activity, media leaks and rumour-mongering, how can we ex pect the membership of our movement to carry out their duties toobserve di scipline, behave honestly and carry out loyally the decisions of the majority and the decision of higher bodies?
From the admirably frank document on “Leadership Renewal, discipline and organizational culture” prepared for the ANC National General Council later this year, which highlights the following tenancies in the ANC:
12.1 Leadership in the ANC is seen as stepping-stones to positions of power and material reward in government and business (Organisational report to the 1997 Mafikeng Confe rence).
12.2 The emergence of social distance between ANC cadres in positions of power from the motive forces which the ANC represent, with the potential to render elements in the movement “progressively lethargic to the conditions of the poor.” (Strategy and Tactics, 1997)
12.3 Disturbing trends of “careerism, corruption and opportunism,” alien to a revolutionary movement, taking roots at various levels, eating at our soul and with potential to denude our society of an agent of real change. (Midterm Review, NGC, 2000)
12.4 Divisive leadership battles over access to resources and patronage becoming the norm and allegations about corruption and business interests of leadership and deployed cadres abounding (Organisational report to the Stellenbosch Conference, 2002).
49. Failure to build a New Person (continued the 2000 NGC document), among revolutionaries themselves and, in a more diffuse manner in broader society, will result in a critical mass of the vanguard movement being swallowed in the vortex of the arrogance of power and attendant social distance and corruption, and, ultimately, themselves being transformed by the very system they seek to change. An important challenge, among others, is thus to ensure a systematic intervention by the ideological centres and institutions of society, as well as mothers and fathers and the family as a whole in shaping social values and a new morality.
53. Strategy and Tactics (2007: par. 138) recognizes the challenges and ‘sins’ of incumbency (patronage, bureaucratic indifference, arrogance of power, corruption) and suggests approaches to the management of relations within the organization. Our ability to manage this minefield, it contends, will determine “our future survival as a principled leader of the process of fundamental change, an organization respected and cherished by the mass of people for what it represents and how it conducts itself in actual practice.”
From the various ANC discussion documents it is clear that the problem of legitimacy facing the ANC has long been acknowledged by the movement. As far back as the Stellenbosch conference in 2002 these “tendencies” were identified. But now, eight years later, the problem has become more acute and the movement has been unable to address them in any meaningful way. It is one thing to admit the problem. It is a completely different matter to deal with it effectively.
A culture of forgiveness (or some would call it impunity) starting at the very top of the leadership, makes it very difficult to address the problems and to take decisive action against ANC leaders in government.
Tony Yengeni, due to his admirable role in the struggle, is carried shoulder high to prison. President Jacob Zuma, due to his admirable stance against the dictatorial tendencies of the former President, is elected as leader of the movement despite the fact that he took money from a crook, did favors for that crook and then submitted a fake loan agreement to Parliament to try and justify this. Ebrahim Rasool is accused of handing out brown envelopes to journalists and, because of his good work in the Western Cape, is appointed as ambassador to Washington. MP’s abuse the travel scheme of Parliament, is convicted and remain in their positions.
The list is endless.
The only way the ANC is going to address the problems so frankly and admirably highlighted in the discussion documents is to fundamentally change its prevailing culture which rewards (or at least turns a blind eye) to transgressions, illegality and even criminality.
What is needed is a body (perhaps an improved version of the Scorpions) that will vigorously and impartial investigate corruption, nepotism and the like across the board. Such a body should instill fear in the hearts of every official and politician – whether it is the President or a ward councillor in Lusikisiki. For such a body to have any effect, no one should feel safe from investigation and prosecution. And once a person is investigated and successfully prosecuted he or she should be expelled from the movement – at least for a certain period.
But because the problem seems so widespread (one could say endemic) – as is made clear by the ANC discussion document – it will be very difficult if not impossible for the ANC to take this rout. That is why the Scorpions was abolished and, I would suggest, why the ANC is trying to tighten its grip on the media. Many ANC leaders understand that it has a problem and know that the movement is incapable of dealing with it effectively. The next best thing is therefore to try and hide this fact from the electorate.
But because we live in an open and democratic society this will not be possible. The attempts by the ANC to deal with the firmly entrenched master narrative (a narrative that suggests the ANC has become corrupt and heartless) by muzzling the media is therefore doomed to failure. But I guess some in the ANC believe it is worth a try.
What’s missing so far in the debate is a collection of reports that are objectionable.
Perhaps someone will be informed enough to let us know which those are!
Zuma stood up to Dictatorial tendencies? What utter nonsense is this? It is because of this refusal to face reality and admit to the fact that pundits (like you Pierre) and the media created the space for the current ANC to run rough shod against our constitutional democracy through the peddling of this rubbish. The big dictator never sued the media (regardless the lies it told about him) or supported the muzzling of the media, rather he created an alternative channel of communication (ANC Today and the Govt communications agency and encouraged the creation of new media outlets, a call which was rejected by those who could have done this but didn’t because they benefited from the status quo, people like Cyril and Tokyo). Today we forget that Malala and Mondli Makhanya, regardfing the “letters from the president”, both wrote scathing “pieces” demanding that Mbeki be muzzled!!!! They claimed that Mbeki must be silenced because in his exercise of his freedom of expression as an individual and political leader he was muzzling the press. Nobody defended his write to express his views frankly, honestly and robustly. (Hell at least we knew what he thought about issues unlike our current dear leader). Dictatorship, go ask the so-called silent majority of so-called reasonable leaders of the ANC who know fully well that if they were freely to express their views they will not only be redeployed to oblivion, roughed up by the ANC, expelled from the party and be relegated to poverty (“It’s cold outside the ANC”). I don’t remember anybody who opposed the Dictator being relegated to poverty; in fact the dictator seems to have given them government (administrative) jobs which they used to oust him! In fact the dictator seems to have facilitated their billionaire statuses. In fact the dictator seems to have even given them key portfolios in cabinet, even though they were openly plotting against him (Madlala Routledge, Sisulu, Jeff Radebe, and half the dictator’s cabinet)! Hell, even Julius had to concede that the youth league was left on its own (despite its open hostility to the dictator). After their expression of this view, our leaders (who’ve saved us from the dictator) immediately hauled him to the proverbial fire! It’s time you Pierre, punditry and the media admits that the times were great under the Dictator!
I am sorry but Pierre is not such a good analyst. The only thing coherent about Pierre is his blind hatred for the former president. But that is not a cause for surprise, because frankly people of his profile feel extremely threatened to someone who compares Africans to Beethoven usage of Schiller’s Ode to Joy.
“Africans will not die but will live forever to celebrate the renaissance of our Continent, Africa. ”
I read this blog not for what Pierre writes but for what other contributors have to say.
SA Communist Party general secretary Blade Nzimande on Thursday criticised the role of the media in democracies.
“Whilst media can be a very important ally to democracy, at the same time it can be a severe obstacle to advancement,” Nzimande said in Johannesburg.
Nzimande said ideologies and ownership of the media were issues to be looked it.
Nzimande also criticised democracies on the African continent.
“What we refer to as a multiparty democracies is just a recycling of elites,” he said.
He accused democratically elected leaders of serving western interests at the expense of their own populace.
Now this report is not first hand – I wasn’t there so I have to rely on what an iafrica.com reporter has written. Maybe he/she left out what Blade then said by way explanation to justify his statement that media “can be a servere obstacle to advancement”
Anyone?
Or can we assume that what he means is that if the media is allowed to carry on reporting on corruption and service delivery issues in government it will prevent these problems from being addresed, or is it the personal advancement of the ANC elites that will encounter an obstacle?
@Vuyo,
Congo is now a better place… Zimbabwe is now a better place… Sudan is taking her first steps into becoming a better place.
All thanks to the dictator.
Prof, you’ve been contradicting yourself. You ended your previous post with “… the legislature will thus either pass a law creating a MAP that will not change anything, or it will pass a law creating a MAP that would be unconstitutional and therefore would be declared invalid by our courts.”
Today, it’s “… there is no doubt that the media is facing the greatest threat to its freedom since the advent of democracy”. The ending, however, has it that “… the attempts by the ANC to deal with the firmly entrenched master narrative … by muzzling the media is therefore doomed to failure.”
Which is it? Do we worry, or can we all relax now? Do tell.
@Clara
I am glad you see my point @14:41
The Nationalist tried to retain its illegitimate power so you and I could sleep safely in our beds.
The ANC is trying to muzzle the press so Nyanda and Blade and Nathi can sleep safely in 5-star hotel beds!
For 6 months at a stretch!
Clara says:
August 19, 2010 at 15:14 pm
Clara, Pierre’s analysis that the ANC is facing a crisis of legitimacy is spot on. His argument and the substantiation of his conclusions are impressive.
The ANC has never been more dangerous than now, when its unsophisticated leaders feel their grip on power slipping and are starting to doubt that they will indeed rule until Jesus comes.
Can you imagine how unpleasant that revelation is to them?
Why do we RESORT to the lowest standards whenever we want to compare? Two wrongs don’t make a right.
We are, where we are because of where we have been and SA is yet to deliver on the promise of liberation. So please don’t be so generous with praises.
Good words from the ex-Presidante;
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=79&art_id=vn20100819134919581C956542
We hope to hear more from him, with more clarity.
I think an additional reason for the ANC wanting to clamp down on media freedom so earnestly and in such haste is to stifle any open debate on the introduction of the National Health Insurance scheme. There may even be some merit in such a scheme, but they are vehemently opposed to any critical examination thereof – probably because it offers another potentially massive source of enrichment for the chosen few.
Eish!
JC (the other one) is suffering from a serious bout of Brettinitis!
Jeremy Cronin slams media
Aug 19, 2010 1:58 PM | By Sapa
SA Communist Party deputy general secretary Jeremy Cronin accused the media of undermining “progressive forces” in South Africa.
Cronin linked together mining interests and the media in his presentation at the African Participatory Democracy Conference in Johannesburg. He was referring to recent stories on “dodgy” mining deals.
“We corrupt them and they won’t be able to have a progressive agenda because they will be so compromised,” he said.
“Having corrupted them, let’s write front page stories on how corrupt the government and ANC is. The agenda is not to expose corruption but to undermine progressive forces.”
Cronin said these stories and government actions could create “disillusionment” amongst voters.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article611776.ece/Jeremy-Cronin-slams-media
khosi says:
August 19, 2010 at 14:41 pm
Khosi: I don’t think you get that what the Prof offers is so vital. Once, when I was young and cool, greased hair, a cig pack beneath my muscular arm trapped under my upturned shoulder t-shirt, an angry youth for the in-justice of the world, nevertheless I learned something vital in my youthful ignorance.
I was however an unsuccessful hustler at the pool table playing major pool with my own caressed cue for years even when well underage, still I played in Mafia dins, dark and dingy, even spit pots, we’re talking the north america 1950′s. Nevertheless, I learned a very vital lesson. If you want to play better, to improve, to play best, then you play with the best, and if you are lucky with the best of the best.
Don’t be hard on the Prof; you are, as I am, so fortunate for the access to discourse with the best.
Please, Maggs, do not compare me to a red communist bastard!
I am merely having fun playing both ends against the middle, pointing out the hypocrisy of our newspaper idioters. Hyenas and vultures might not be the most appealing animals in the food chain – no-one doubts their place in the ecosystem.
Unfortunately, the building blocks of constitutional law are often the worst among us, those whom it might seem fundamental rights are wasted upon.
What I really resent is our airtime being wasted by the Executive covering their greedy asses when the legislature is, at last, starting to take its role under the separation of powers doctrine seriously and honouring their duty of parliamentary oversight.
There is a constitutional crisis in the making and no-one is paying attention. Ishmael’s crew is getting serious with the Princess.
… These attempts to gag the press have nothing to do with the need for accuracy on the part of journalists, or protecting the dignity of South Africans, as claimed by ANC spokesmen.
They have, however, everything to do with the fact that the ANC right now has the weakest, greediest, most corrupt and compromised leadership since its birth 98 years ago. These so-called leaders want to shut down the medium that exposes their corruption, looting and hypocrisy. …
We should not be surprised. This is what the ANC is today: a rotten, greedy, corrupt and compromised leadership which wants to muzzle the media to hide its looting of the country. – By JUSTICE MALALA
http://blogs.dispatch.co.za/dialogues/2010/08/17/why-anc-so-urgently-wants-press-muzzled/
Brett Nortje says:
August 19, 2010 at 20:02 pm
Hey Brett,
“Please, Maggs, do not compare me to a red communist bastard!”
I would not dream of doing that.
I compared JC II with you.
p.s. Are you still on Concentrate?
Why now? Damn good question.
Jonny Steinberg provided a very good analysis of this issue in the Sunday Times Something else lies behind moves against the media.
The media has become tougher on the ANC of late. Remember how, not so long ago, one was automatically written off as an unreconstructed racist and apartheid apologist for moaning about corruption and incompetence? Now such moans are par for the course among the chattering classes.
But a “crisis of legitimacy”? On the contrary. There are no signs that support for the ANC is waning. If anything, it is precisely because the ANC feels that it is so supremely in power – not to mention in control of all the organs of the state – that it is moving against the media. Furthermore, the ANC feels itself less and less obliged to live up to Western norms and worry about what people in the US and Europe are saying. This is a factor of the continuing decline of the West and the rise of the East, which isn’t so fussy about rights and freedoms.
pierre,
the MAT has unconstitutional written all over it, so it should (in its current form) be easily “defeated” at the CC
what’s the situation with the PoIB though; it seems that un/constitutionality here is not such a clear-cut case ?
That is unkind to Cronin, Maggs…
marco polo says:
August 19, 2010 at 20:42 pm
“There are no signs that support for the ANC is waning.”
Indeed.
As has been frequently said, the only opposition to the ANC is from within the ANC itself.
The trend at local government level may well be significant losses to the ANC, but certainly not overwhelming – at national level the ANC would probably strengthen its support.
These issues will hopefully re-energise the activist class within the ANC and the alliance partners against the direction which seems to be inconsistent with the principles underlying the NDR.
I must say it is puzzling reading the remarks of Jeremy Cronin who I regard as among the most astute and dedicated of activists – either he has been terribly quoted out of context or he has abandoned principles for position.
Brett Nortje says:
August 19, 2010 at 21:00 pm
LOL!
So you’re taking your dose of Humour too.
Good stuff.
At the start of the 20th century there were 10 perhaps 20 democracies world-wide. Now we have about 120. That’s growth! And such growth is bound to have growing pains; if one reads some responses here that much is clear. The very people who bask in the sunlight of representative democracy are the those hate a free press. This is difficult to understand, unless there is something to hide. Keep writing Prof, I’ll keep reading.
@Maggs
“As has been frequently said, the only opposition to the ANC is from within the ANC itself.”
Maggs is right.
I am not interested in the programs and policies of the DA. They have proven even more corrupt than the ANC.
Look at the tens of billions spent on “consultants” by the Western Cape Govt.
And at least one of the 42 Travelgate MP’s was DA!
How predictable. I write a piece on media freedom and the usual suspects pop out of the woodwork to defend their heroes. One of the problems in South Africa, it seems to me, is the blind loyalty to individuals. Those who do not share the blind loyalty but face the facts are then accused of having a blind hatred for the person that is not hero-worshiped. Pity, because without critical thinking about our country and its leaders we will not get very far. Instead of engaging with the issues we will continue to defend the indefensible and remain blind to the faults of the particular leader we have decided is our savior. This is why it is so sadly and destructively predictable that when one points out faults of a leader (whether it is Mbeki, Zuma or Zille) those who are blind, but because of their blindness can only imagine criticism of the leader being animated by hatred, launches an attack instead of engaging with the real and very serious issues raised.
@Pierre,
No no no! You are wrong! You cannot anchor your point of view on fabrications and unproven lies. Doing that makes the very point you are arguing unsustainable. Vuyo adequately pointed out to you the weakness and the incorrectness of your ‘dictator’ assertion.
What you are now trying to do is to pick and choose which parts of your piece can or cannot be contested. That cannot be honest. You wrote something of ‘critical thinking’ (as you say), we are saying that your ‘critical thinking’ is not correct and the reasons thereof have been pointed to you. But like the arrogant media in this country, ala Makhanya, who wants to be ‘critical’ but do not want to criticized. You want Mbeki censored but you want your freedoms to remain. Personally, I see exactly where a need for a media tribunal comes from. You people are untruthfully claiming sainthood.
We cannot allow you to peddle lies about any of our leaders, whether its Mbeki or Zuma or Mugabe. We know that you and your ilk, do this so that you can continuously portray our continent and her people forever destined to walk in darkness. And its not about those leaders as individuals. Its is about the cause that those leaders have been given the task to help see through. Those leaders are servants to the cause of emancipating the African child in the fight against the global apartheid that is being perpetuated against non Western nations. Do you want us to keep quite when you lie and seek to destroy our defenders?
Now I am not saying that these human being are not infallible. But when you are dishonest in accusing them, we will defend them.
The Emperor’s legacy to his organisation is hardly an enduring democratic culture, now is it, Khosi?
The fact that ZANU-PF is no longer appropriating and allocating food aid from the people Mugabe routinely tells to go to hell, so that the people of Zimbabwe have some pap to go with their rats must be a vindication of quiet diplomacy, huh?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 19, 2010 at 23:15 pm
Hey Whingy Mossad Guy,
It seems that you had a large DAsh of whine – maybe all of it.
Would you consider writing a booklet – the Whine Route through the WC?
Maggs Maggs Maggs! You’re translating legitimacy as electoral support? What about the feet in the street?
ANC greed has put the legitimacy of the constitutional state in play.
Perhaps the ANC has already taken a leaf from their buddy Mugabe’s book and will crush the hope of the service delivery rioters?
Maggs, you should also point out to Dworky that the DA did not reward its MP’s enterprise with the chair of a portfolio committee!
Brett Nortje says:
August 20, 2010 at 7:50 am
That’s not a good plan.
We could note, for example, that a councillor who reportedly shot at young African kids (6 and 7 years old) was promoted to MPL – that out does anything that the ANC has done to date – but it would be unwise to do so.
For now let’s focus on denigrating the ANC and it’s madly crazy tactics of late.
- muzzle the media
- condomising information
- arrest of journalist for not having written a fake letter
BTW an activist who is leading a challenge in the Rhamaposa settlement around corruption wrt toilets/corruption was arrested and incarcerated for 3 days and charges were dropped. It is reported that the SAPS have told him that he is making too much waves and have again threatened to arrest him according to 702/ewn. Nothing about that in the mainstream print media so far – maybe the noise making is reserved only for journalists.
http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/articleprog.aspx?id=46569
@ Pierre,
“President Jacob Zuma, due to his admirable stance against the dictatorial tendencies of the former President”.
As I understood it, Pres Zuma, fought for his political survival with everything that he could. Losing was not an option for him – he would have ended up in jail. There was nothing noble about that fight.
The former Pres overplayed his hand, thought himself beyond the rest of society and failed miserably to prepare a successor when he was able to do so – my gut says that the ANC was heading for a President for life had Polokwane not happened.
It seems that Pres Zuma is falling into the same mold by assuming himself to be beyond ordinary people and politically immune. He is allowing if not creating the instruments of his own possible demise. When the time comes for serious political challenges, these will be some of the areas which will be exploited to undermine Zuma. While there is no visible candidate yet, but as the saying goes – two years is a long time in politics.
Puhlease, Maggs! Did you see anything on the TV footage yesterday that warranted strikers being shot at with rubber bullets?
ANyway, I take your point about the amazing contagious shyness that seems to have overcome Belle and Samantha. Contrast their running commentary on the toilet saga with reticence about DA Councillor Rubber Bullet?
Brett Nortje says:
August 20, 2010 at 8:36 am
Hey Brett,
When you eventually get around to taking a dose of Normal with your breakfast, you will get to understand that there is nothing, zero, zilch, nada that will ever justify shooting at two children playing in a field.
Comparing that with shooting at angry strikers is over the top – even for you.
So, Maggs, what you are arguing is that people looking unpleasant deserve a rubber bullet up the tailpipe?
Vuyo’s contentions are not sustainable and is unrelated to any known facts. Madladla-Routledge was fired because she contradicted the Minister of Health. Cronin was humiliated and forced to apologise when he warned against the “Zanufication” of the ANC. Cosatu and others were vilified as the “utra-left”. Charlene Smith was called a racist because she challenged his murderous stance on HIV. The list is endless.
No one ever said the President had no right to publish his intimidatory and ad hominem attacks on people who disagreed with him. Many have pointed out that he was acting like a bully and challenged his views – as one has every right to do. If one challenges the view of someone one is not trying to limit their freedom of expression, one is engaging on a debate. Unfortunately Mbeki did not like debate, so he then moaned that people is trying to silence him. In dictatorial style he could not believe that anyone could tell him he was talking dangerous nonsense and that he was a bully. If people did, he complained because they had the cheek to do this and claimed they were trying to silence him. What utter nonsense. If one debated him he would call you a racist or an ultra leftist or worse to try and delegitimize you and your point of view so that he would not have to deal with the substance of an argument – the true acts of a insecure bully. Many were bullied and for a while many in the ANC, remembering what happened to Cronin, Winnie Mandela and Cosatu, stayed silent as people died of Aids related illnesses. 300 000 deaths later some in the ANC finally spoke up and Mbeki sulkily relented and stopped his crazy talk. 60% of the delegates at Polokwane, sick of this bullying and his attempted power grab – standing for a third term to try and rule from the grave like a true dictator – agreed with my assessment and threw him out. Thank goodness for that.
Brett Nortje says:
August 20, 2010 at 8:47 am
As with always, I have no idea what you’re on about.
Pierre De Vos says:
August 20, 2010 at 8:50 am
Maybe.
But why do you regard Pres Zuma’s stand as “admirable”?
Nobody else was ready to stand against the mighty former President.
Zuma did because the alternative was, as good lawyers would say, too ghastly to contemplate.
Many people did indeed galvanise against our past hero and fell with the alternative.
As a Zuma supporter I do not get the impression that all of the anti-Mbeki sentiment and support was necessarily pro-Zuma, rather that many wanted to simply get Mbeki “retired” after his two terms as President of the ANC.
Neither Vuyo not Khosi would be able to argue sensibly that the ANC (which has many, many talented people in its ranks) that succession planning was a serious consideration during the Mbeki era – he wanted to lead the ANC forever and through that the country and possibly the continent.
Go straight to retirement, don’t collect the Mo Ibhraim prize.
@Pierre,
To help from being all over the page, lets go through your assertion one by one.
1. “Mbeki did not like debate, so he then moaned that people is trying to silence him”
Could you provide evidence of him discouraging people from debating anything. And could you also provide the same for when he said people are trying to silence him. Please do not tell me that he bullied people and called them names, he was also called many name. Please not he-said-she-said.
2. Did Mondli Makhanya not write an editorial on the Sunday Times saying that Thabo Mbeki’s letters from the president should be stopped. If so, what would you call that?
3. On 300 000 deaths. Someone responsible for such a catastrophe would have a murder, genocide or, at least, class action case against them. Why is Thabo Mbeki so special? Why is he not being hauled to the Hague or something?
Boy you must hand it to the government.
Muzzle the press.
Create your own newspaper (The New Age …..using the Gupta family as go between)
Pay for it ( the Gupta’s) with easy money;
The numbers are not yet all available but it appears that the Gupta family and its allies will make up about half of the so-called strategic shareholders that ArcelorMittal has brought in. They will also get about half of the R800-million on offer from the steel giant should Imperial Crown Trading convert its prospecting right at Sishen to a full mining right.
A peculiarity of this deal is that ArcelorMittal appears to be doing little more than renting its BEE partners for four years to meet its BEE obligations. At this point it will buy them out at a combined price of between R900-million and R2,1-billion, depending on the performance of its share price. This gives the Gupta interests more than a nice chunk of change to be able to fund its newspaper.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-13-funding-the-jz-times
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-20-guptas-key-to-arcelormittal-deal
@ Maggs
“Pres Zuma is . . . assuming himself to be beyond ordinary people”
Yes, Maggs, this came as a huge surprise for me too. I thought JZ was different. (Look at how he humbly tolerated being pursued over many years by relentless prosecutors!)
That being said, I applaud JZ’s willingness to stand up to the arrogant white liberal press. Now that we have heard the U.S. ambassador’s input on the subject, the stakes are clear: Global IMPERIALISM is rushing to the defense of its embedded local lackeys!
Thanks.
“The only way the ANC is going to address the problems so frankly and admirably highlighted in the discussion documents is to fundamentally change its prevailing culture which rewards (or at least turns a blind eye) to transgressions, illegality and even criminality.”
And there’s not much hope of that I am afraid. A fish rots from its head as they say. The President and the ANC have done everything that is humanly possible to avoid an open and transparent trial on the very real allegations against the President in the context of the Shaik matter. How can you can take this bunch of pharisees remotely seriously? Do you think anyone in their right mind (including in the ANC) considers all the current party noise against corruption as anything other than “nudge, nudge, wink, wink” to persuade the electorate while the current crew remains in charge? There is such a lack of any credibility at all its entirely laughable.
Pierre De Vos says: August 20, 2010 at 8:50 am
Point by point rebuttal of your fabrications:
@Madladla-Routledge was fired because she contradicted the Minister of Health. – Nonsense! She disobeyed a direct (and lawful) order of the president and was dismissed. In any democracy anarchy would surely result if a president is disobeyed without consequence. I know you would ordinarily condemn (as an attack on the judiciary) the registrar of a court if they disobeyed an order of a presiding judge. So why the double standards here?
http://www.anc.org.za/docs/anctoday/2007/at34.htm#preslet (Note that Routledge has never once disputed the contents of this article, even now when Mbeki is everyone’s punching bag. In fact, because she seems to be unable to work within a unit, she was soon dismissed by the faction around Pres Zuma, soon after she had been used as a stick against Mbeki)
@Cronin was humiliated – Certainly, and so he should be, particularly since he could not substantiate his statement with facts. Cronin was an NEC member is an NEC dominated by Mbeki allies, in the same manner that Joel is an NEC member in an NEC dominated by Zuma allies. Just because you routinely lose the argument or vote does not equate to dictatorship. Cronin and his cronies were eventually able to “unseat” Pres Mbeki, not something politically feasible in say, ZanuPF (vis-a-vis President R Mugabe). So Cronin was wrong and correctly chastised. Vavi (the whizzkid of white liberals who wish to embarrass the ANC) outdid Cronin and said the ANC spews propaganda like Goebbels and the Nazi’s and that Cabinet Members are deadwood, they even die in cabinet! No doubt as, an opponent of progress and truth, you were paralytic with joy…PS: Cronin is a leader and member of probably the most elitist and non-transparent party in RSA (after the DA), whose structures were modeled on the Stalin-era communist parties of the USSR. It’s ironc that he would talk about Zanufication, particularly when his party changed its constitution to enable his boss to earn a cabinet salary whilst working full time as the chief commie.
@Cosatu and others were vilified as the “utra-left”. – “Vilification”? Nonsense!
Wikipedia describes the pejorative use of the term as: “identifies and criticizes positions, especially by those in the mainstream historical Marxist parties, to describe a position which is adopted without taking notice of the current situation or of the consequences which would result from following a proposed course”. This aptly describes Cosatu and the SACP’s general political and economic propositions of the past 16 years! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism)
@Charlene Smith was called a racist because she challenged his murderous stance on HIV. – Nonsense, Charlene made the following racist statement: “Here (in Africa), (AIDS) is spread primarily by heterosexual sex … We won’t end this epidemic until we understand the role of tradition and religion – and of a culture in which rape is endemic and has become a prime means of transmitting disease, to young women as well as children”. (http://www.saembassy.org/When%20is%20good%20news%20bad%20news.htm)
He should have also have called her liar and a charlatan. Rape has never been the “prime” (i.e. main) means of transmitting HIV in RSA.
@N”o one ever said the President had no right to publish his intimidatory and ad hominem attacks on people who disagreed with him.” Nonsense!
Read Makhanya’s 5 August 2007 edition of the Sunday Times and tell me if this is not suggested. Read the weekly condemnations of his right to express himself by opponents of all alternative views (collectively referred to as the “Media”), including a certain “Justice” Malala. Have you so quickly forgotten how the media embraced Tutu’s attacks of the ANC (that had no basis in fact) but were so quick to condemn a pointed rebuttal (based on fact) by Mbeki? Both were exercising their constitutional freedom of expression. The former was cheered the latter condemned!
PS
@” Unfortunately Mbeki did not like debate”…..Nonsense. The dude reveled in it. In fact it was one of the key attributes that enabled his rise within the ANC and led to his demise. The man could never hope to match the demagogic appeal of most of his opponents and therefore reveled in debate, typically bruising his opponents (in the media, the ANC and opposition) into tears. Go read parliamentary replies and his comments in ANC policy documents or even the ANCToday. Go read his rebuttals of policy positions by the ANC’s opponents. No doubt it must have been tough for the less talented (the Tokyo’s, Zackies, Pierre’s, Cyril’s) who revel in show and are rather wanting in substance to deal with such a character. PS Pallo Jordan is supremely more able in this regard (but his prone to histrionics) and Cronin as capable (but is intellectually condescending and intransigent).
@ “so he then moaned that people is trying to silence him”… Bull Manure, Pierre. He never ever moaned, he just showed the hypocrisy of a media that preaches freedom of expression but is the primary jack boot for silencing debate. Show me one article where he moans? I can show you a thousand were the media moans like a …
@” 300 000 deaths later”….You clearly have never read that Harvard report, sponsored by a pharmaceutical company that profits from ARVs and authored by medics who profit from the backing of these companies, whose initial premise IS that people died, without even providing a plausible basis. It’s not a scientific paper it’s a political statement/weapon/propaganda for use by your buddy Zackie whenever someone dares question whether ARV rollouts are as effective as they are claimed to be.
@”some in the ANC finally spoke up and Mbeki sulkily relented and stopped his crazy talk. 60% of the delegates at Polokwane, sick of this bullying and his attempted power grab – standing for a third term to try and rule from the grave like a true dictator – agreed with my assessment and threw him out. Thank goodness for that.”
Nonsense again, but worth noting as it reveals how far removed you are from reality and objectivity.
@Maggs
“Neither Vuyo not Khosi would be able to argue sensibly that the ANC (which has many, many talented people in its ranks) that succession planning was a serious consideration during the Mbeki era – he wanted to lead the ANC forever and through that the country and possibly the continent.”
You are correct, I could not argue sensibly for that proposition of “succession planning”. I am a democrat and reject such nonsense with contempt it deserves. Succession planning is for totalitarian states, royalists, anti-democratic institutes like companies, etc. Sadly you reveal yourself as one who embraces such totalitarian tendencies.
Mbeki was voted out, after a campaign orchestrated by Cosatu, factions of the ANC, the ACCYL, factions of the ANC’s various leagues, the SACP, local and foreign big business and local and foreign media. It was largely a dishonest campaign that opened up precedents that the instigators thereof are now struggling to manage. It was a campaign that entailed an immoral alliance between supposedly progressive forces, reactionaries and opponents of Africa’s rebirth. Nonetheless it was a democratic outcome that ought to be respected, unlike the anti-democratic creed that you seem to espouse.
@”he wanted to lead the ANC forever and through that the country and possibly the continent.”
Clearly you and Pierre would make a lovely (ebony and ivory) union as you both have fertile imaginations (to quote from somewhere). You have no way of knowing “if he wanted to lead the ANC forever and through that the country and possibly the continent”. The fact that he stood for an additional term has as much significance as Tambo’s, Vavi’s and Nzimande’s incumbencies of their respective positions for more than two terms. Do you propose these persons similarly want/wanted to lead the “ANC forever and through that the country and possibly the continent”.
@ Khosi
“The only thing coherent about Pierre is his blind hatred for the former president.” Amen to that!
To that list I would add “and his many pretensions, such his pretence of being objective and his pretence of being progressive whereas he is a more palatable version of Tony Leon”.
@ Vuyo
“[Pierre's] is a more palatable version of Tony Leon”.
Excuse me Vuyo, but I must object to this egregious insult to Mr Leon.
Pierre is by no means more palatable. At least with Leon, we knew what we dealing with — a drooling, rabid racist, almost fanatical in his demonic liberalism.
If you ask me, De Vos is more insidous.
Thanks.
Vuyo says:
August 20, 2010 at 12:34 pm
“ebony and ivory”
hahahaha.
Clearly you have run out of substance – it’s hard to defend the indefensible, eh!
Enough said!
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder says:
August 20, 2010 at 10:12 am
Hey Whino,
“Now that we have heard the U.S. ambassador’s input on the subject”
What did the US Ambassador say?
Surprise, surprise!
Addressing several hundred people from the top of a police riot-control vehicle, Zuma said he had never seen people living in such apalling conditions.
He said he had seen shacks without proper roofs and had been in others that were completely waterlogged from recent winter rains.
“People should not live like this,” he said.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/incoming/article614170.ece/Zuma-digs-into-his-pocket-to-feed-shack-dwellers-family
He also said;
“I saw a miracle,” he said. “I’ve never seen anything like this. The lady said to me: ‘Come and see my house.’ We got there and I had never seen anything like it. I even took out R600 and gave it to her because she told me that she didn’t know what to cook,” Zuma said.
This is what I luv about the guy; of the people for the people.
He knows his strengths and weakness; buy one poor lady with R600 so he has something positive he tell his audience (strength) and avoid confrontation (weakness);
Twelve year-old Nikeziwe Mathebula had a epileptic fit outside Coronation Hospital west of Johannesburg after protestors prevented her from entering the hospital for her treatment. Her mother watched in horror as striking workers toy-toyed past her and others even jumping over her.
Another pregnant woman’s water broke while sitting on the pavement after she was also prevented from going into the hospital.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article614076.ece/Strikers-jump-over-kid-having-epileptic-fits
The ANC’s discussion documents left me dumbfounded …. effectively the rotting head of the fish appears to be admitting culpability for the rot. This is unheard of in the history of Life, the Universe and Everything … since when did any necrotising bacteria ever admit that they were the cause of a necrotic state?
The treatment for necrotising fasciitis is to amputate the affected limb. Obviously no animal can survive for very long without its head (although urban myth has it that cockroaches can survive nine days after decapitation).
Perhaps the ANC’s attempts to muzzle the media are more about switching off the lights that expose its death throes … or maybe its about enabling enough darkness for the flesh-eating bacteria to escape the dying ANC body and find another organism to colonise? Cope II?
Whatever the reason, no organism ever survived gangrene of the head, lights or no lights. With or without the media, the ANC is already dead. Jesus better come quickly.
Vuyo says:
August 20, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Vuyo, you forgot the CIA!
“Mbeki was voted out, after a campaign orchestrated by Cosatu, factions of the ANC, the ACCYL, factions of the ANC’s various leagues, the SACP, local and foreign big business and local and foreign media.”
Brett Nortje says:
August 20, 2010 at 18:27 pm
LOL!
A perfect candidate for Dale Carnegie’s “How to win friends and influence [Cosatu, factions of the ANC, the ANCYL, factions of the ANC’s various leagues, the SACP, local and foreign big business and local and foreign media].”
NHI plan if anyone is interested ( http://wikileaks.org/wiki/African_National_Congress_National_Health_Insurance_plan,_July_2009 )
Not only is IPB & MAT on the cards… but more than 10+ bills which seek to centralize control (totalitarianism) of government. Is it right for the minister of communications to take full control of the SABC and be its “lord and master” ? ANCTV does not inspire images of Democracy.
It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 3 months.
@Vuyo, you should stop using emotions and stop lies, i.e
1.he says the campaign to vote out Mbeki was ochestrated by (among others) the MEDIA. if he was really awake during the period leading to polokwane , he would remember that ALL NEWS PAPERS PREDICTED THAT MBEKI WILL WIN, even after majority of provinces and ANCWL, ANCYL, YCL. COSATU, SACP and the MK veterans pointed and voted clearly from their constituences that they will support JZ.
where were the media when he klaped winnie mandela, they protected him, stop smoking tik
2.RULE ANC FOREVER?
While mbeki was in eastern cape, it was shown clearly on the national television when the crowd indicting to him that he should go for 3rd term and he indicated 10 terms by showing all ten fingers , if he had 30 fingers he would have indicated them, so he wanted to rule forever, all his supporters formed cope and they are now exposing themselves as clowns.
Kenneth and Vuyo are right.
The white liberal media, and Tony Leon and CIA and MI5 and the Freemasons and Madam Zille conspired against Mbeki and Zuma!
Thanks.
I am amused by this “debate” about Mbeki. Reminds me of Evita Bezuidenhout’s comment about the TRC: “The future is certain. It is the past that is unpredictable.” One often recalls past events from one’s one ideological perspective and based on one’s emotional commitments. The view on Mbeki is no different. For what it is worth, I base my view on the factual reporting in books of William Gumede and Andrew Feinstein as well as all the Letters from the President written by Mbeki, the suspension of Vusi Pikoli and the general lack of commitment to the truth by Mbeki ventilated on this Blog quite often (most recently my post pointing out that Mbeki lied about not knowing about Selebi). Zuma’s coalition of the wounded comprised of many different people, including many ANC members who did not vote FOR Zuma, but AGAINST Mbeki for all the reasons given in this Blog. It seems to me no one who has the facts and is not blind could possibly argue that Mbeki did not display some worrying dictatorial tendencies. Exhibit 1 remains the way he treated Jeremy Cronin and Cosatu and the many things he wrote in which ad hominem arguments (instead of engagement with substantive issues) played a pivotal role. 60% of the delegates at Polokwane agreed with me. Die hard Mbeki fans do not. Just goes to show: what one sees often depends on what one is looking for. If one looks for the problems they are there for all to see though. Because of this, those who wish to airbrush history must conjure up imaginary hatreds etc (just as those who blindly support Zuma must pretend the Shaik judgment never happened and those who yearn for apartheid must pretend Vlakplaas, pass laws etc never happened). Pity, because that is not the heart of this post. Why not, just for once, stop defending the indefensible and look critically and fairly at the facts? Just a thought.
Pierre De Vos says: August 21, 2010 at 15:50 pm
Obviously, the same can be requested of you.
Who is William Gumede? Who is Andrew Feinstein? Who decided that these people write the gospel truth? Whose gospel truth do they write?
Just a thought.
Just another thought, Pierre DE Vos,
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
— Giordano Bruno
@ Brett,
Your post about me failing to discuss the Van Dalen issue refers.
In the first instance, I have been out of town for the past two days and have not had access to a computer, so was not in a position to post on the point you raised.
In the second instance, there is absolutely no real evidence about this story anywhere. The Sowetan posted a particularly odd story, with no real facts or evidence. They refer to a decision taken on the basis of hearsay where Van Dalen was not even called before the tribunal to make a statement, face his accuser or answer any questions. Why would a civilian be in possession of a gun able to fire rubber bullets in the company of police officers? Why could I not find any other articles on this on the internet? Why have the ANC in the WC, particularly that horrible woman Lynne Brown or Max Ozinsky not made more of a meal out of this issue? It all seems a little strange to me.
Why, if he was found guilty by this tribunal, was there no criminal case brought against him? Surely this is a criminal matter?
So, if I can find out any of those answers, or any more “facts” relating to this case, then I will certainly have lots to say. Until then, all I have to go on is a rather strange once-off news item in The Sowetan, which I am battling to find credible.
Pierre De Vos you need some type of medal for being on national television, you are brave when you say what you say.
“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” – Joseph Stalin
Point #152 of the ANC’s NGC discussion paper “Media Diversity and Ownership”
152. It is our responsibility further as we set the agenda for change that we dominate the battle of ideas and that our voice is consistently heard and that it is above the rests.
Stalin and the ANC have common talking points ?
http://www.polity.org.za/article/african-national-congress-national-general-council-discussion-documents-august-2010-2010-08-02
Its clear what the ANC are about to do… will the Constitutional Court be up to the forth coming war ?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
August 21, 2010 at 13:23 pm
Kenneth and Vuyo are right.
The white liberal media, and Tony Leon and CIA and MI5 and the Freemasons and Madam Zille conspired against Mbeki and Zuma!
Thanks.
————————————————————–
Can you provide evidence for this conspiracy ?
Did the ANC top leadership not conspire when they used the NIA to spy on the NPA… did the ANC not conspire to use the NIA to spy on the NPA and get charges dropped against Zuma ?
Did Thabo Mbeki say he is a Thatcherite (Milton Friedman fanatics) ?
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder, what is delusion ?
delusion |diˈloō zh ən|
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder : the delusion of being watched.
• the action of deluding someone or the state of being deluded : what a capacity television has for delusion.
Truth will always prevail, no matter how hard one tries to state otherwise.
@ Samantha
Watch Minister Motsoaledi on Justice Malala today distancing himself from the justification of luxury cars and perks for Ministers. Also watch Judge for Yourself later today.
I Hope you can see how one sided the media is, the ally of malema was elected at eastern cape ANCYL conference(where media was not allowed), but at timeslive website they only talk about boeing of julius, just last week in gauteng when anti- malema candidate was elected as the chairperson of the province, every journalist wrote about how malema’s re election next year is in limbo.(dashed)
A more balanced media would have indicated to neutral readers that Malema’s re election next year is boosted by the election of his ally in Eastern Cape, but they cannot do that, they are playing as political wing, to tarnish the youth leaque as muchas AS they can, i do not understand how people still support this underground (terrorists and vampires)who call themselves independent media.
Not even prof is talking about the outcome of tender irregularity outcome of julius, why? because in 60% of all articles you gave example of tenderfraud by mentioning julius, now the outcome came as a blow to prof , and THE company, he is now quite, hoping that nobody talks about it.so hear it prof,JULIUS WAS NOT FOUND GUILTY OF TENDER FRAUD, AND FOR THE REST OF THE MEDIA, HIS ALLIES ON YOUTH LEAQUE WON EVERYWHERE SO FAR EXCEPT GAUTENG.
@ Kenneth
“Every journalist wrote about how malema’s re election next year is in limbo.(dashed)”
I agree with Kenneth: the press sometimes appear to over-state the triumphs of the anti-Malema faction, and downplay Malema’s victories. One might say that the press is guilty of shameless Afro-Optimism — feeding its readers the good news that it presumes they want to hear.
The same is true, I think, of the press’ boosterish, and I think often unfounded, optimism of the economic spin-offs of the World Cup.
Perhaps what is needed is regulation to restrain the press from unrealistically raising the hopes and expectations of South Africans.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/article616464.ece/Zimbabwe-farmers-blossoming
I especially like this quote: -
“If ever President Mugabe did anything for the majority in this country it is the land reform which is real empowerment for blacks. Land reform is about sharing, land reform was never about chasing whites.
“The problem is that some of the whites did not want to share.”
You would, wouldn’t you, Khosi?
Some of us prefer to focus on the inconsistencies: Food-aid, and 50% of Zim’s farmers are producing tobacco as a cash crop? The neighbour plows Mhembere’s land, probably gave him the seed. Ah, give a man a fish….
Pity Agence France-Presse did not ask Mhembere what happened to the cash the UK gave Zim to finance land redistribution.
l do hope they will remember to ask the ANC what happened to the money budgeted for land claims when the time comes.
Maggs, what is your response to Samantha?
Brett Nortje says:
August 22, 2010 at 16:31 pm
Hey Brett,
“Maggs, what is your response to Samantha?”
If you are struggling to engage Samantha, what hope for me?
No, Maggs, you’re not going to deflect this one! You keep bringing it up – now, I’ve got Samantha to tell us what she knows. Not a hell of a lot.
Put up or shut up, dude!
Are you going to keep taking shots at the DA over this issue based on scant information? (Shots with rubber-bullets…)
Far as I am concerned there are more questions about the way the incident is being handled than the incident itself. Irrespective, you and Samantha should go do the homework since you, Maggs, appointed yourself to prosecute this case and you, Samantha, appointed yourself as DA-defender-in-chief.
Dworky, more On/Off switch questions…
http://www.rapport.co.za/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Meer-wolwe-in-skaapspolisieklere-as-wat-mense-dink-20100821
Meer wolwe in skaaps(polisie)klere as wat mense dink
2010-08-21 22:06
Herman Scholtz
Daar is klaarblyklik baie meer wolwe in skaaps(polisie)klere as wat die publiek vermoed.
Rapport het vasgestel daar was die afgelope week in een hofsaal van die Pretoriase streekhof minstens 45 sake waarin die misdade gepleeg is deur boewe wat hulle as polisielede voorgedoen het.
Vier mans word in drie afsonderlike sake van misdade beskuldig wat wissel van roof met verswarende omstandighede tot onsedelike aanranding.
Die slagoffers was byna sonder uitsondering onder die indruk dat hulle in die hande van wetstoepassers was.
Die een beskuldigde is ’n voormalige tronkbewaarder, maar hy het na bewering mense beroof.
Twee van die beskuldigdes het glo selfs ’n polisievrou geflous met hul vervalste aanstellingsertifikate.
Die polisievrou is met blou ligte van die pad getrek en het eers onraad vermoed toe twee “polisiemanne” ’n vuurwapen teen haar kop gedruk en haar beroof het.
Hul borgtogaansoek moes uitgestel word omdat hofwerkers gestaak het.
Nog ’n beskuldigde se borgtogaansoek is formeel geweier en die ander vermeende skynpolisieman het sy borgtogaansoek onttrek nadat mnr. Paul du Plessis, aanklaer, daarop gewys het dat hy al vier keer op onverklaarbare wyse uit aanhouding ontsnap het.
Dr. Johan Burger, ’n kenner van die polisie wat vir die Instituut vir Sekerheidstudies (ISS) navorsing doen, het aan Rapport gesê ’n toename in voorvalle waarin misdadigers hulle as polisielede voordoen, sal ’n rimpeluitwerking op die publiek hê.
“Daar is reeds ’n groot mate van agterdog by die publiek.”
Hy meen dit is die polisie se plig om voorvalle waar misdadigers hulle as polisielede voordoen as ’n prioriteit te beskou sodat die integriteit van die polisie beskerm kan word.
Volgens Burger moet die polisie baie strenger beheer oor uniforms en toerusting soos blou ligte uitoefen om te probeer voorkom dat boewe dit gebruik.
“Die polisiewet (ingevolge waarvan dit ’n misdaad is as iemand hom/haar as ’n polisielid voordoen) is ook nie omvattend genoeg nie. Daar moet baie strenger strawwe wees sodat dit as ’n afskrikmiddel dien.”
Burger sê mense aanvaar enigiemand in uniform wat aan hul deur klop of hulle van die pad trek, doen dit ter goeder trou en is wat hulle voorgee om te wees.
“As jy onseker of agterdogtig is, ry tot by jou naaste polisiekantoor of ’n plek waar daar baie mense is.
“Wat mense nié moet doen nie, is wegjaag.”
Burger sê daar was in die verlede al voorvalle waar polisielede motoriste wou voorkeer, maar uiteindelik sonder regverdiging op die onskuldige, paniekerige motoriste geskiet het wat uit vrees nie stilgehou het nie.
Brett, I am not so sure I can speak for Maggs here. So, speaking only for myself, just as I am not interested in the policies or programs of the DA, so I am not interested in the propensity of their public representative to shoot black children.
Irrespective of the guilt or otherwise of this individual, it would not surprise me if a RACIST LIBERALparty took pot-shots at kids — perhaps as a sequel to Tony Leon’s notorious FIGHT BACK campaign!
Thanks a lot.
Hey Dworky,
“pot-shots at kids — perhaps as a sequel to Tony Leon’s notorious FIGHT BACK campaign!”
LMAO!
I wish you did speak for me when you wrote that.
Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder, but you support the ANC ?
Over 350,000 Citizens dead
Over 1 million raped…
Many more injured…
Around 2 million contact crimes in one year
Winnie mandela, kidnaps a child and then that child ends up dead…
Strikers go on the rampage and many die and are injured…
You have blood on your hands Mikhail and you know it.
Nobody likes to be insulted, particularly self important politicians and bureaucrats. Anyone who reads extensively in the South African blogosphere cannot help but be appalled by the numerous highly insulting comments made about the ANC alliance and by inference their supporters. The electronic media actively facilitates this endless flow of insulting comment. I am not talking about well considered reasonably presented commentary, argument and debate. I am talking about really crass, intellectually challenged and frequently racist comment. This is the semi-literate dregs of our society in full cry.
The alliance members and their supporters can justifiably claim that this aspect of the media is reprehensible. It is! This being the case one must ask whether this unbridled muck raking media assisted blogging is not contributing the the ANC determination to push thriough their awful legislation.
BMW, explain yourself
STEVE SMITH – Aug 19 2010 12:59
… And of course the car costs a lot. I mean a whole lot. R1 632 500 for the standard model, R1 646 500 for the M-Sport model, and R1 717 500 for the Individual model.
Still no real surprises here. It’s got a big engine, it has enough interior goodies to impress most of Zuma’s Cabinet, and it costs almost as much as a kickback from a government tender. It fits the script: big car, big engine, big money. It’s how the world should be. All is good. …
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-19-bmw-explain-yourself
@ Gwebecimele,
I’m sorry but I’ve been exceptionally busy and have not been on the site since Saturday. So, I missed the programmes you suggested.
I am incredibly impressed with our Health Minister and he needs a medal for showing the rest of the Cabinet what it means to be a pubic servant. I think he should be our next President!!
@ Brett,
Sorry I couldn’t engage more on the issues raised. I am incredibly busy at the moment with community projects and labour issues in our town, so I will not be on the site terribly much over the next few days!!
That being said, I find my new title of DA Defender in Chief an interesting one!! Unlike many of our more ardent contributors, I am not blindly loyal to the DA and will certainly question issues where I deem them relevant. However, I am loyal to the party because I believe in what they are trying to achieve.
So, I will defend against unwarranted and spurious attacks and attempt to provide a factual basis for my defence thereof.
@Samantha,
There is something about this sentence that does not titillate me. Maybe it does so to you!
“I am incredibly impressed with our Health Minister and he needs a medal for showing the rest of the Cabinet what it means to be a pubic servant.”
@ Khosi,
ROTFLMAO!!!! OMG!! Talk about a horrible typo!!
Thanks for pointing that out – although to be perfectly honest, that does kind of describe certain government figures – JZ comes to mind.
Tomorrow, it will be 5 days since the strike started and the genuises amongst us have costed it at R1bn a day then we should be standing at R5bn. Suprisingly the required increase by the unions is also R5bn.
Who is paying this R5bn or loosing R5bn? May be a portion of this R1bn was never there in the first place and the only people who stand to loose anything are the workers when the employer applies no work no pay.
The answer might be that the R5bn is the loss to the economy. Brilliant.
Wait a minute, we can afford to loose R5bn of the economy but unable to increase govt salaries by R5bn which may end up boosting salaries and demand for goods and services. Where will this R5bn come from? We can tax the wealthy plus the “money for jam” deals. Did I hear no no, we are paying enough already.
Well lets wait for genuises and their calculators to gives new figures, add more variables and it will balance at the end of the day.
All of a sudden we are counting deaths like never before, I hope we keep this newly found skill and link all new deaths to their specific causes such as incompetency(babies) , failed policy, occupational hazards; bailed criminals; manganism, manholes,drownings etc.
Gwebecimele says:
August 24, 2010 at 16:59 pm
There are aspects to the strike that is most unfortunate, not least of all the deaths and trauma as well as the negative impact on learners at all levels.
In general however, it seems that the civil servants have got the public sympathy.
With the kinds of numbers flowing freely, the government position that there is no money available sounds kinda fishy.
Maybe cabinet members should be riding bicycles to work if we as a country are really as cash strapped as government would like us to believe.
If it is true that there is no money then maybe it’s time for government to explain why so many well connected people have been individually receiving millions of rands from the cash strapped treasury and why tons of the scarce rand has been spent on superfluous expenses, when there is not enough to up the incomes of deserving civil servant.
Babies starving in hospital ‘unfortunate’???
I call it murder. I would not treat an animal like that. What civilised person would leave a baby to die like that? That kind of conduct is anachronistic.
No doubt, those baby deaths will be investigated by the SAPS and the NPPA – with the same vigour as the guards murdered during the security guard strike.
Cosatu has just announced that all its affiliates will join the strike. I guess the numbers will be more interesting. I bet at the end of it all, we would all be better if this strike was resolved in the last 9 months when negotiations started especially after all the promise during elections.
At least she asks some – ok, a few – of the right questions!
(OK, one or two…)
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=118895
HILLARY JOFFE: Wage battle masks the real public sector issues
NEWSPAPERS should never turn their noses up at advertising
revenue.
Published: 2010/08/24 07:05:17 AM
NEWSPAPERS should never turn their noses up at advertising
revenue. But when government departments resort to paying for
advertorial, it is surely an admission of defeat. How bad is your
communications strategy if you have to buy space to put your case
across? How poor are your relations with the media if journalists
haven’t even heard your side of the story, much less written
about it amid a strike that’s on the front pages every day?
There weren’t a lot of government spokesmen quoted in the
extensive strike coverage provided by the Sunday papers this
weekend. But they did feature in the ads, with the government
spending hundreds of thousands of rands of taxpayers’ money to
advertise in the Sunday Times, City Press and the Sunday
Independent. There was a full-page ad from Basic Education
Minister Angie Motshekga on teachers’ pay and the strike, and
half-page ads from Public Service and Administration Minister
Richard Baloyi .
They made riveting reading, even though Motshekga’s has been
dismissed by unionists as untruthful. Motshekga’s advert pointed
out that the salaries of qualified teachers had gone up by 40%
over the past three years. This year, a newly qualified teacher
entering the system would earn a total salary package of R229790
(that’s just more than R19000 a month, including pension, medical
aid, housing subsidy and a 13th cheque – or more than R13000
net). That doesn’t seem too bad for a 22-year-old. At the other
end of the scale, the teacher in her 50s with 30 years of
experience is earning 40% more than the starter teacher, with a
total package of just less than R27000 a month.
That gap between youth and experience may not be nearly wide
enough to keep good, experienced teachers or nurses in the public
service. But it is something the government has been trying to
address since 2007, with the occupation specific dispensations
for teachers, nurses, prosecutors and others. Since then, there
has also been an annual increment of 1,5% that has added pretty
much automatically to pay packets each year as a kind of proxy
for experience. It is because of that increment that the
government’s 7% wage offer is really at least 8,5%.
Baloyi’s advert includes a table of increases for the different
pay grades, many of which add up to double digits. Why the
government hasn’t shouted much louder about what its wage offer
really amounts to is a mystery. The difference from the trade
unions’ demands cannot be that great, and rumour has it that the
unions were quite willing to sell their members on a 7% increase
plus a R700 housing allowance – but something went wrong in the
negotiating process at the last moment.
And the “fat cat” conduct of some Cabinet ministers and senior
officials has hardly helped to smooth relations. Indeed, this
strike may be as much about the unions’ fight against corruption
and excessive pay and perks in the government and the ruling
party as it is about the cost of living for workers.
The thing about wage increases themselves is they compound, with
each year’s percentage coming on top of last year’s higher base.
The government hasn’t made much of the fact that public servants
in fact won a 13% increase last year (11,5% plus the 1,5%
increment). Add 8,5% this year and the increase in public
servants’ pay packets over two years is nearly 23%.
Not bad. And it comes after hefty increases two or three years
ago, when the occupation specific dispensation was being
implemented, and the government was also hiring thousands of
extra teachers, nurses and police. The public sector wage bill
jumped. About a third of the national budget goes on wages and
salaries and that has kept pace, even over a period in which the
government has been increasing spending by about 10% a year in
real terms.
That raises big questions about what public sector pay should be,
questions that have been pushed off the table by the annual
battle between trade unions and government over cost-of-living
increases. The government has been trying to increase its capital
spending and its transfers to households. It has made it a
priority to build economic and social infrastructure, increasing
spending on schools, clinics, roads and water, as well as
targeting poor households directly with higher social grants. In
theory, that should have meant that the public sector wage bill
declined as a share of the budget.
So what do we want the government’s spending priorities to be? We
need to step back and ask those questions. It’s time to step
back, too, and ask more detailed questions about how we should
pay our pubic servants and how we should compute their worth.
Some are paid too little (and some are paid too much) for the
skills they have, the responsibility they take on and the effort
they put in. But who is overpaid and who is underpaid? What
should be the differential between new and more experienced
employees? How much should depend on performance? How should
public sector pay be pitched relative to the private sector?
What is needed now is a national conversation on public sector
pay and national priorities And it needs to start as soon as the
strike is over, before the battle starts up all over again next
year, and before even more advertising is booked in newspapers.
Yes, Brett we need to go back to the budget speech. We were clapping to 10 yrs of Trevors speech and I can bet there are items that will fail the test of priorities. This strikes forces us to scrutinise and not blindly follow.
More questions Joffe should be asking:
How many taxpayers are there for each civil servant? How many ratepayers are there for each municipal employee? Is this sustainable? What are public perceptions about the honesty of civil servants? Their competence? Diligence?
Gwebecimele says:
August 24, 2010 at 19:20 pm
Hey Gwebs,
“Cosatu has just announced that all its affiliates will join the strike.”
From the text of the Ruth First Memorial Lecture, delivered by Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi on August 17, 2010, at the University of the Witwatersrand.
Approximately 71 percent of African female-headed households earn less than R800 a month and 59 percent of these have no income. As we celebrate women’s month, she would have to face the reality that income inequality is still racialised and gendered: an average African man earns in the region of R2 400 a month, while an average white man earns around R19 000 a month. Most white women earn in the region of R9 600 a month, whereas most African women earn R1 200. …
She will ask if we have not gone insane to tolerate the outrageous and obscene bank chief executive pay packages. Nedbank chief executive Tom Boardman earned R43m last year, Standard Bank chief executive Jacko Maree R18.2m and Absa chief executive Maria Ramos earned R13.5m. ….
She would learn that the crisis in education persists and the quality of education is declining: 70 percent of matric exam passes are accounted for by just 11 percent of schools. Only 3 percent of the children who enter the schooling system eventually complete matric with higher grade mathematics. …
On the health front … life expectancy of South Africans was the highest in 1992, at 62 years. Thereafter life expectancy fell to 50 years in 2006.
But after reading the ANC discussion papers, the auditor’s reports and other state documents she would be shocked that graft and crass materialism has taken over some of the former freedom fighters. …
She would ask where all other democrats have gone to after reading about the proposed Protection of Information Bill that, if it goes through in its current form, will make a mockery of her work as a journalist committed to fighting injustice. …
What type of a society are we building? South Africa can change. We deserve a change in direction. We can turn our situation around. We can unite behind a new vision. We have shown during the World Cup that we are capable of uniting behind a single goal. We can unite now to make Ruth First appreciate her contribution in building our democracy and our country. …
http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page72308?oid=193797&sn=Detail&pid=71616
Strikers turn on Zuma [You can comment on this story]
By Graeme Hosken, Mogomotsi Magome, Candice Bailey and Aziz Hartley
In a scathing attack on President Jacob Zuma over the public sector strike, unions have warned he could suffer the same fate as his recalled predecessor as he is also regularly out of the country when it is in “turmoil”.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20100825052242625C273192
Is it not amazing that the same people who believe wealth is finite – if I am to have, you have to hoes – seemingly ignore the fact that the budget pie is finite?
If Zuma is serious about setting this country on a long-term path to prosperity for all now is the time to right-size the bloated unproductive civil service.
New Zealand is an economy roughly a quarter the size of ours. (Well, soon it will be closer – anyone see the figures yesterday about the GDP% made up by the mining sector: ‘Transformed’ by the ANC?)
Compare New Zealand’s public sector to ours!
Our 1M ‘public servants’ are a sponge between the taxpayer and the poor – soaking up the funds hypothetically meant for service delivery and poverty alleviation, letting a few drops through.
2008-02-08 :
[Water Affairs and Forestry Minister Lindiwe] Hendricks said the issue had been dealt with “comprehensively” and that the mines in question were being cooperative with the government.
“South Africans can rest assured that we do not have a ‘water crisis’ resulting from poor planning.
“Our planning systems are strong and have looked at future water needs,” said Hendricks.
The department said alleged acid mine drainage was not “in anyway jeopardising future water supply”.
2010-08-10
Parliament – Minister in the Presidency Trevor Manuel on Tuesday warned MPs there were “private sector interests” driving debate on the environmental threat to Johannesburg posed by rising acid mine water.
“… the idea that there will be acid mine drainage running through the streets of Johannesburg next week, and that we should all walk around in gum boots, is completely ridiculous.”
2010-08-24 :
“If nothing is done, water will start decanting [from the so-called central basin, under the city] and contaminating groundwater in 17 months,” senior water affairs official Marius Keet told members of Parliament’s land and environmental affairs select committee on Tuesday. …
Water Affairs Minister Buyelwa Sonjica recently announced the setting up of a high-level technical task team to tackle the acid mine drainage problem, particularly in the Witwatersrand area.
Eish!
@Maggs, did you watch 50/50 on ANCTV this week ? The acid mine drainage situation is a major worry, but if the main sewage line bursts it will be unthinkable as to the loss of life that will occur.
24 Environment
Everyone has the right-
(a) to an environment that is not harmful to their health or well-being; and
(b) to have the environment protected, for the benefit of present and future generations, through reasonable legislative and other measures that-
(i) prevent pollution and ecological degradation;
(ii) promote conservation; and
(iii) secure ecologically sustainable development and use of natural resources while promoting justifiable economic and social development.
ANC fails it Constitutional obligation, yet again.
Remind me quickly: Did the SABC not try to pull the plug on 50/50 because of white tendencies?
Eric says:
August 27, 2010 at 9:41 am
Hey Eric,
It’s a mess everywhere.
This administration was brought in on a massive majority to sort the crap out that is going on in the country.
It unfortunately seems that there is more interest in who’s sons and lovers can get to be mega billionaires rather than getting the aspirations of the majority of voters, per the ANC election manifesto, into high gear.
Instead of doing what they were elected to do, this government is more interested in nonsense like really kakky issues of media manipulation and Protection of Corruption Bills, tweaking regulations to “empower” some of their own and other nonsense, exploiting the Ministerial Handbook and the like.
Eish!
Maggs’ “massive majority” were blind to the elephant in the room.
So why are they surprised when that bull comes into musth?
Brett Nortje says:
August 27, 2010 at 10:28 am
what else does steve hofmeyer and jackson mtembu have in common ?
http://www.news24.com/Entertainment/SouthAfrica/Hofmeyr-supports-media-tribunal-20100928
ANC veteran Pallo Jordan criticised his party’s media tribunal plans at a debate where he was originally scheduled to speak in favour of the tribunal and controversial Protection of Information Bill.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article778297.ece/Jordan-criticises-media-tribunal-plans
@ Maggs
I don’t know about you, but I see it as tragic that Cmd Jordan has now been co-opted by the white liberal media. He seems to have forgotten that, until we achive TRANFORMATION, the white liberal media will remain bastion of the Zille-style discourse and crappy toilet-rhetoric.
Thanks.
Hey Dworky,
You’re onto something it seems.
Jordan “warned that not only was a Constitutional challenge against the bill possible, but also, that it was very difficult to keep information secret today.”
Jordan is definitely tending to right wing, counter-revolutionary, reactionary, liberal influenced in the main by anti-transformational forces in the guise of NGOs and political parties other than the ANC.
If you look over Jordan, what do you see?
The Hon Minister Radebe coming for’ to carry us to a better life for all (and peace and friendship).
JUSTICE Minister Jeff Radebe has called on progressive lawyers to step up to the plate to protect the constitution, saying this role had been “usurped by unexplained forces whose silence during apartheid was deafening”….
The minister said “forces” that never saw the need to raise their voices during apartheid had now “found their voices to protect the interest of the minority moneyed class and super rich” …
There was a false impression that the ANC was a threat to the constitution, he said. But the values of the constitution were “littered within (its) history and traditions”. He referred to the 1943 African Claims Committee , the 1955 Freedom Charter, the 1989 Harare Declaration and the ANC’s insistence on the inclusion of justiciable socioeconomic rights .
“How then can the ANC, whose membership and leadership were prepared to die for its principles, thereafter turn around and undermine those principles?” he asked.
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=127403
Maggs Naidu – maggsnaidu@hotmail.com says:
November 23, 2010 at 8:59 am
I notice how he says that they “were” prepared to die for these ideals. It appears that this is no longer the case. Perhaps that is the answer he seeks.
Samantha says:
November 23, 2010 at 9:56 am
Hey Sam,
When Min Radebe said “the ANC, whose membership and leadership were prepared to die for its principles” he was referring to other people (viz those who were actually killed) and not those who inherited the ANC and the state resources.
As he correctly points out “(t)here is a need for a countervailing force to represent the poor and Nadel is well-positioned to provide this counterbalance given its historical background,” – he seems to point out that the ANC, as it is today, may not be quite up to the task.
p.s. Be careful what you wish for, it may just come true, it is said. Now the previous Min of Communications who spent R500 000 on hotels has been fired, as you wished, only to be replaced by one who has spent over R2 million
How Silvio Berlusconi survives the scandals and holds on to power
It’s getting hard to know what else Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, has to do to get evicted from power. In most countries just one of the dozens of scandals he has been involved in would be enough to finish him off politically.
Each time a new scandal explodes, more sordid and incredible than the last, you think he can’t possibly ride this one out. He can’t possibly, you imagine, survive a court verdict that says he was bribing a lawyer to give false testimony or just shrug off the mountain of evidence that he regularly organises orgies with paid escorts at both his private and official residences.
And yet, there he is, still in power, still the leader of one of Europe’s most cultured and important countries. After all these years it still beggars belief.
….
He has spent almost two decades subjugating the country’s interests to his own: trying to ruin RAI, the national state broadcaster and rival to his own media empire, Mediaset; decriminalising false accounting; decreasing the statute of limitations so that crimes pass their sentence-by date quite quickly. Every political decision, it seems, serves Berlusconi, not the country.
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-11-23-how-silvio-berlusconi-survives-the-scandals-and-holds-on-to-power