Constitutional Hill

Why there are no authentic Africans, Afrikaners, women or homosexuals

The re-emergence of a virulent form of identity politics poses a serious threat to South Africa’s democracy and the freedom of its citizens. Wherever one turns there are people who insist that there is one authentic way to be African, Afrikaans, Zulu, Xhosa, gay or lesbian, white, black, heterosexual, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or atheist and that if one does not conform to one of these essentialist stereotypes one is somehow inauthentic and fake, not worthy of being shown respect and of being taken seriously. Identity is thus used to try and silence critics, to enforce conformity and obedience within the group and to banish those who refuse to perform their “essential” identities from the policed group itself.

Growing up as a white Afrikaans boy in the threatening shadows of apartheid, I was often told that certain beliefs and actions and certain people were “volksvreemd” (alien to the “Afrikaner nation”). Beyers Naude, Bram Fischer and Frederick van Zyl Slabbert were volksvreemd. Listening to “Queen”, “The Rolling Stones” and “The Beatles” were volksvreemd – unless one played their songs backwards to identify the dangerous messages from the devil supposedly contained in them in order to confirm how volksvreemd these bands really were. Being an atheist or criticising National Party leaders like BJ Vorster and PW Botha were volksvreemd. Dancing on a Sunday and being a moffie were volksvreemd. Marrying an Engelse meisie or, god forbid, sleeping with somebody classified as “coloured” or “African” were beyond volksvreemd. And, of course, opposing apartheid and supporting the struggle against it was definitely volksvreemd.

Some people were devastated when branded as volksvreemd. (Others rather revelled in being excommunicated from the very “tribe” in charge of perfecting apartheid.) Volksvreemdes were often shunned by family and friends, ridiculed and shamed, told that they were not “true” Afrikaners (whatever that might be). Their views could therefore be ignored, laughed at or branded as “dangerous” or “inauthentic”. At best, they would be pitied for having lost their way. At worst, they would be banished.

The Afrikaner establishment thus attempted to police the thoughts and behaviour of white Afrikaans speakers to ensure that not too many of us would become critical of the government or ask too many questions about the injustices of the world we lived in and from which we benefited socially and economically. We were told that there was only one “right” way to think about our world and our place in it and one “right” way to live if we wanted to be viewed as authentic Afrikaners.

I was recently reminded of this oppressive past by several public statements. President Jacob Zuma was reported as saying that black people should not keep dogs as pets because it is “un-African”. Then Gillian Schutte, in a widely read open letter, called on “white people” to recognise that by jumping in on national debates “that do not concern them” they are usurping a platform for “authentic black voices”. And yesterday ANC spokesperson Jackson Mthembu attacked Lindiwe Mazibuko for criticising President Jacob Zuma who said that one’s business will multiply if one donated money to the ANC by stating that Mazibuko is “naive when it comes to African traditions” which she cannot relate to. “It is our tradition as Africans that if someone gives you something, in return you thank him/her and wish them prosperity and abundance,” Mthembu said in a statement.

What all these comments may have in common, it seems to me, is that they accept that there is a “right” way and a “wrong” way to be African and that those who are “real” Africans are worthy of respect and to be listened to while those who are not, can be ridiculed and dismissed as being un-African or need not be taken seriously. One either has an authentic black voice or one is inauthentically black (whatever that may mean). One is either a true African (who likes people more than dogs, embraces a certain traditional culture and rewards those who look after you) or one is un-African and therefore lacks credibility, authenticity and any authority to be taken seriously.

Some commentators even imply that the authentic, “truly African”, identity ought to be strictly policed and that those who do not conform (because they have become “too white”, because they twang when they speak English, because they sleep with members of their own sex, because they have become too critical of their elders or the leaders of the ANC) must be expelled from the group and branded as “coconuts” (sorry for having to use this offensive term), or race traitors.

Although I am referring to African identity, I could just as easily have used examples showing how the identities of women, gay men and lesbians, Afrikaners, or Jews are policed. A woman who does not like to cook for “her man”, or wears a miniskirt or is not monogamous is suddenly not a “real” woman. A gay man who knows nothing about Judy Garland or does not support same-sex marriage is suddenly told that he is in denial about his sexuality. An Israeli who criticises the occupation of Palestine becomes a self-hating Jew. An Afrikaner who supports the ANC once again becomes a volksvreemde verraaier.

By complaining about the oppressive and disciplining power of essentialised identities, I am not denying the fact that there are sometimes strategic benefits to be had from pretending to belong to a more or less stable and fixed identity group. Claiming to belong to a marginalised identity group helps us to resist oppression and marginalisation and to challenge the economic and social dominance of the privileged group, whose inferior opposite we have been defined as.

That is why, for strategic reasons, some of us resist homophobic oppression by invoking our identities as gay men and lesbians – even as we know that there are a million ways to love and desire members of the same sex. Some of us insist that it is important to address the effects of past and on-going racial discrimination by pretending that there is an easily identifiable group called “Africans”, and that this category can be used to implement effective and necessary redress policies – even as we know that there are a million ways in which such “Africans” can choose to live their lives.

Ironically racism thrives on the assumption that all people who are black (or all people who are white, for that matter) are exactly the same; that they have no individuality; and that people who belong to the despised race possess no personal attributes and characteristics not associable with their race. That is why the strategic use of identity categories will not be without its problems and dangers.

Given the fact that identities are always based on a “them” and “us” logic, and given that there is always a hierarchy of dichotomous identities (heterosexual vs. homosexual; black vs. white; male vs. female) which allows members of the dominant identity group (whites; heterosexuals, males) to exploit their cultural, social and economic dominance and to benefit from it, this kind of exploitation and oppression will only end if we manage to destabilise or even destroy the logic of (and the belief in) essentialist notions of identity categories such as race or sex or sexual orientation. The paradox is that we need racial (and other) identity categories to resist racial (and other forms of) oppression, even as we run the risk of thereby perpetuating the very system that we need to destabilise or even destroy.

The only way out, so it seems to me, is to challenge the notion that there is one authentic or true or inevitable way in which one is supposed to be African, to be gay and lesbian, to be white, to be a woman. One should note that the only thing one really always has in common with all other members of any of the identity groups that one might associate with is the shared experience of either the oppression and marginalisation caused by the prejudices of others or by the shared experience of benefiting from being seen as a member of a dominant identity group.

The rest is all drag.

  • http://n/a Daan Prinsloo

    Have you seen the website “mosselbayman.co.za” dealing with Arizona State University’s Mossel Bay Archeological Project and the diggings at the Pelican Point caves? It contains articles such as the following:
    K. Adam and Eve were Khoisan from Mossel Bay – by Advocate De Waal Lubbe
    “As will be shown in what follows hereunder, all the different, but relevant scientific findings, point to Mossel Bay, as being the Origin Of Modern Thinking Man. . . . ”
    The Khoi were according to the Genome Project the origical “thinking humans”.
    So if land restitution is applied fairly, it goes to the Khoi. Much of Africa, in fact.

  • Gwebecimele

    If “apartheid” threatened a white afrikaans boy then what can we say about zulu boy??

    You are guilty of the same. You can’t dilute a crystal clear concept such as “African Identity” and bring it to the same level as supporting Chiefs or Pirates. If you don’t understand it then seek answers.

    Our culture and identity has little or nothing to do with dogs, weaves and skin lighters.

    Africans like Jews knows themselves.

  • Michael Avery
  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Good post Pierre. Hoped for along time you would get to this.

    PROUDLY AFRIKAN
    http://proudlyafrikan.org/tag/andile-mngxitama/

    Note Mngxitama write “Afrika” in context of Pan-Africanist Sobukwe’s use of the word, but then he totally and categorically rejects Sobukwe’s nonracial definition of what constitutes an African.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/columnists/2012/03/06/let-s-rescue-sobukwe-s-and-biko-s-legacy-from-their-parties

    “We know it was the PAC as a result of this thinking that first spoke about “non-racialism” as opposed to the ANC’s more backward “four nations” philosophy, which meant the acceptance of the Verwoerdian notions of multiracialism.

    But the Pan Africanists were not always consistent; from their “one human race” thinking they at times included whites in the struggle. In other words they denied the salience of race and skin colour.

    At the same time they were ambivalent about the Indians and Coloureds.

    Biko and his black consciousness movement improved on the ideas already developed by Sobukwe and others”

  • Thomas

    Are you now saying that criticising President Jacob Zuma makes one more African?

  • Herman Lategan

    Gwebecimele. Huh? Shamepies.

  • lorna levy

    Often The Cape Times publishes letters opposing or supporting Israel. They are usually written by Jews and those critical of Zionism are usually labelled as ‘self-hating Jews’. A tolerance of different perspecives is not working well. Perhaps it just continues as before but without those harsher sanctions. Ag shame

  • Gwebecimele
  • Brett Nortje

    I am not admitting arrest was necessary, but, if this guy was arrested, when is he going to appear? Why is only Sowetan following the story? Is there skullduggery afoot?

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/sport/2013/01/15/arrest-made-over-racist-golf-attack

  • Gwebecimele

    Brett

    You and Reverend Meshoe never played soccer.

    http://www.sportlive.co.za/soccer/sa/2013/01/15/zuma-slates-bafana-critics

  • Thomas
  • Pierre De Vos

    Thomas, you obviously completely missed the point of this piece.

  • Karien

    Great piece, thank you.. Vive la différence!!!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    “Building a nation or promoting national unity, which is one of the historic objectives of post-apartheid South Africa as we set out to give shape to the new historical community that is evolving here, raises a whole range of issues such as the class leadership and class content of such a national(ist) movement, the nature and feasibility of social cohesion, our understanding of a multicultural polity, intercultural communication, among other things. In post-apartheid South Africa, all of these themes are at issue but because of the continued salience of the racial faultline in this social formation, I shall concentrate on the vitally important question of racial identities and what we have to do about them.
    Minister Mosiuoa Lekota’s comments some two years ago on the question of non-racialism1 spotlighted the troubling relationship between the policy of affirmative action and the perpetuation of racial identities in post-apartheid South Africa. The latter is one of the unintended consequences of the former, if we give the architects of the policy the benefit of the doubt, which I believe we should.
    Because of the vital importance of the subject for the consolidation and deepening of the democratic polity in which we live today, I believe that the Minister’s comments should spark a national debate on the question of what we mean by a non-racial, democratic South Africa. For, it is a fact that racialised identities, as we know from situations such as Nazi Germany, Ruanda, and many others, have genocidal potential.”

    Neville Alexander

    http://www.praesa.org.za/files/2012/07/Racial-Identity-Citizenship-and-Nation-Building-in-PASA.pdf

    And on the opposite opposing side of that ideology we have Jimmy Manyi, Gillian Schutte and Andile Mngxitama.

  • Stephan Dalla Pria

    I know what you mean, Pierre! Society today wants me to be a guilt-ridden, self-loathing privileged knee-bender as part of my authentic identity (according to all the clever generalizing by constitutional experts and political analysts), and I choose NOT to be! Cheers!

  • Oupoot

    Ah PdV, you forgot to add religion: there is a right way to be a Christian / Muslim / Hindu / etc and a wrong way. For Protestants, Catholics may be Christians, but are wrong about Christ. Etc. Within Protestants, there are differences: If you are Methodist, this is what you should belief and do and act, if you call yourself charismatic Christian, then you should do this and that, the list is endless.

  • Gwebecimele
  • Gwebecimele

    @ Oupoot

    What about becoming a judge? There is right way to be a judge and a wrong way such as being a member of a unpopular church or claim to speak to God or use muti etc

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hmmm!

    “The only way out, so it seems to me, is to challenge the notion that there is one authentic or true or inevitable way in which one is supposed to … be gay and lesbian”.

    So Cornelius can Heyningen may be onto something!

    The Sunday Times reported that the Creare Training Centre’s prospectus claimed it could convert gay students into heterosexuals through “rehabilitation”.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/01/13/bloemfontein-arts-academy-claims-cure-for-homosexuality

  • Pingback: South Africa - Why there are no authentic Africans, Afrikaners, women or homosexuals (Pierre De Vos)()

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Eighteen years after the end of white rule, South Africa is more polarised than ever before. Emboldened in the aftermath of Mangaung, the ANC’s new theme is unity, but this isn’t about addressing social cohesion – it is all about healing schisms that would undermine the ruling party’s power base. In the first of a series of dialogues on racism, diversity, identity and reconciliation, MANDY DE WAAL speaks to Rhodes University’s Jane Duncan about the economic structures that divide our society and give rise to the spectre of hate-based ideologies that still haunt us.

    http://dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-01-15-conversations-jane-duncan-on-race-identity-and-racism

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Gwebe

    “Africans like Jews knows themselves.”

    Gwebe, although you are right, there appear to be certain Jews who are confused, self-denying or even self-hating. And there are even so-called “Africans” who differ on the definition issue.

    I propose we solve this puzzle by declaring that any “Jew” who admits to any uncertainty about who is a Jew is, precisely for that reason, NOT a Jew. And that, by the same token, any “African” who admits to any uncertainty about who is an African is, by virtue of even raising the question, NOT African.

    WDYS?

  • Lynda Gilfillan

    These essentialist arguments were dismantled in the 1980s by a variety of theorists, including Homi Bhabha. SA is way behind on this.

  • Michael Osborne

    “Every human identity is constructed, historical; every one has its share of false presuppositions, of the errors and inaccuracies that courtesy calls “myth,” religion “heresy,” and science “magic.” Invented histories, invented biologies, invented cultural affinities come with every identity; each is a kind of role that has to be scripted, structured by conventions of narrative to which the world never quite manages to conform.”

    Kwame Appiah, In In My Father’s House : Africa in the Philosophy of Culture

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Dmwangi – we know you’re out there, lurking, waiting.

    Do come out of the closet!

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Maggs

    “Dmwangi – we know you’re out there”

    Maggs is right. Dmwangi should say something. In the meantime, I say that PdV’s “anti-essentialism” is a postmodern affectation of flaccid WHITISTS whose culture is so exhausted that they cannot believe in anything anymore.

    Puzzled? Dmwangi will explain!

  • Gwebecimele
  • sirjay jonson

    The concept of ‘them’ and ‘us’, generally meant as ‘them verus us’ by bigoted and self serving individuals, cultures, governments and societies has been repeatedly proven as unproductive, certainly divisive, and generally disastrous.

    It becomes a nightmarish confused mishmash. Elsewhere the truth of this has been recognized and the misguided nose-biting to spite the face belief discarded. How long it will take SAfrica, not even the prophets know.

  • feles mala

    sirjay

    “It all becomes a nightmarish confused mishmash”

    Certe, Toto … sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse …

  • Beetle

    I thought the new “US and THEM” was Rich Big-Business/ Industry and the disempowered Poor.
    Private schools/ private medical care are also surrogate markers for “Us”

    Angloplatinum just sneezed and NUM and Susan Shabangu have caught a cold.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 15, 2013 at 19:19 pm

    Well. The first positive step I imagine to demolishing “whiteness” would not to indulge in its wicked technology reproductions. Like this Internet thingy, DSTV, those BMWs and those Iphones too.

    Other than that, I just can’t take this bullshit seriously. Why is it that it is middle class blacks like Andile Mngxitama who takes to the stage with such “radical” denunciation of what they believe constitutes the enemy. It is a sort of disassociation, even psychosis , fuelled by guilt and a profound sense of self-betrayal because the contradictions in what they believe and what they practice are just too overwhelming to confront honestly.

  • sirjay jonson

    feles mala
    January 15, 2013 at 20:16 pm

    Well, there’s lots of smoke (and mirrors as well) around and abounding.
    As for cause and effect, how we live is what we reap…

    de fumo in flammam

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Michael Osborne
    January 15, 2013 at 17:59 pm

    The trouble is not the mythological component of identity or the cultural norms that helps to formulate that “identity”. The problem is how to mould those identities into a non-conflicting national identity. However, I maintain that these real or constructed identities should never be used to discriminate and regulate privilege in a democratic state.

    That is what I believe has been the problem, according to Alexander and others. We could have addressed the inequalities rooted in Apartheid without abandoning the nation building project.

  • sirjay jonson

    Beetle
    January 15, 2013 at 20:19 pm

    Us versus Them; if it didn’t originate with the dinosaurs, it certainly did so with the Neanderthals, a sub species of homo sapiens, who lost. This concept however, to this day permeates small, unevolved minds.

    That’s all about survival, pitting one against another. Muscle rules over nourishing. Who will rule is the only question, regardless of the violence or cost, who will be the big chieftain, the big man?

    Such concepts must be dropped for true Democracy. In effect, this is Democracy’s gift when successful.

  • John Roberts

    Some good points.

    However there is one authentic group that is truly authentic and that’s an ANC member group. An authentic ANC member fucks the poor and steals left right and centre. Anything else is “volksvreemd”

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    John Roberts
    January 15, 2013 at 21:16 pm

    I have a brilliant plan. All we need to do is identify exactly who these “whites” are, because they are in fact a very tiny minority of super wealthy “whites”, who continue to “control the economy.” We need to add much more resolution to the “identity politics” and to stick a label on them too, lets just call them “the Jews” and soon you would find a very different characterisation of the debate. You would also not have the Ford Foundation sponsoring a “human rights” organisation whose policy advisor is a rabid antisemite advocating a new Holocaust.

    We must call the bluff and play them at their own game.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    By the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan:

    “Did you know that it would be no exaggeration to say that the greatest wealth and enterprise in South Africa are to be found in the German-Jewish-Hebrew community? This is according to a Jewish publication.

    In South Africa, they run the show. Nelson Mandela, he’s a good man, but he couldn’t fulfill any promise that he made to his little brothers; that he was going to end the shanty towns, and build all these houses, put electricity there. This is because Black folk can’t do anything without White help and support, so the White man doesn’t mind making you a “politician” because he’s going to control you.”

    Barnet Barnato, Harry Oppenheimer, Mark Levy, Stephen Koseff, Bernard Kantor, the list goes on and on:

    “Four Jewish South Africans are among the top seven earners in SA.

    And dozens more feature in the top rung of the Sunday Times’ annual South African Rich List was published today. It features an amazing number of Jewish South Africans, both in terms of what they OWN and what they EARN.

    The wealthiest 150 South Africans list (see how the lists were compiled below) contains many well-known community members. The full list can be seen on page 2 of the attached Rich List pdf, or by

    The survey also looks at the top 100 salary earners in the country. Four community members are among the top seven – and there is a surprisingly strong representation among the hundred.”

  • Gwebecimele

    OB

    Would you ask Jews to boycott palestine and iran products?
    We come from an era where ordinary clerks and policemen knew what a kaff** is and applied rules accordingly. Now that there is bee and aa that favours blacks then all of a sudden there is doubt about who is who in the zoo. PdV knows that he is “white afrikaans boy” but wants others to doubt who they are. Why not cast doubt at the core traits of “whitisms” without sugar coating it with doubts on black identity. I doubt if he can write an article question whether some whites are european or dutch.

  • Beetle

    So everyone is standing behind PdeV on this issue?
    Not too close behind though!

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 15, 2013 at 22:05 pm

    “Would you ask Jews to boycott palestine and iran products?”

    No I wouldn’t because even Jews are divided about the morality behind the Zionist state of Israel. Just as even a smaller percentage of “Whites” are White Supremacists and even a smaller percentage of “Whites” are Jews. I would rather ask a Zionist. Just as not all White people used the word kaff** or even endorsed its use. I know that personally because I grew up in a family where its use was strictly verboten(although like almost most Afrikaners they voted for the Nats), primarily because my dad said it was disrespectful towards Black people, but also because my granddad worked in the mines alongside Blacks and always remind us of our shared humanity despite the politics.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Gwebe

    “I doubt if [Pdv] can write an article question[ing] whether some whites are european or dutch.”

    Gwebe is right. But the reason that Pierre is able to thrive amidst the torrid contingencies of WHITISH essentialism is because, as BlueOzone has so often pointed out, he emerged from a BROEDERBOND university!

    Thanks.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    January 16, 2013 at 1:14 am

    Dworky,

    Stop needling Gwebe otherwise I’ll call you a coconut!

    Anyway, in other news, Professor Zuma says that those who have not touched a ball should not be critics.

    And he’s touched the ball so that, according to him, means Bafana will be playing in the final – Bafana were so horrified at the thought (of playing in the final, not Zuma touching the ball – well maybe both) that they began singing Mshini Wam!

    WDYSTT?

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 15, 2013 at 22:05 pm

    “Now that there is bee and aa that favours blacks then all of a sudden there is doubt about who is who in the zoo”

    BTW – gwebs, it is not true that I’m opposed to BEE and AA. The argument there has always been that this is an absolute necessity, not even Neville Alexander was opposed to but the issue is how to implement it in a less divisive way.

    But as Jane Duncan said, it is to the advantage of the ANC to retain Verwoerd’s racial categories, that way they can claim they are serving the interest of their major support base that is obvious black African while they are in fact pursing capitalist policies that does in fact serve the interest of a very tiny white minority including their own elite.

  • Paul Kearney

    “Now that there is bee and aa that favours blacks then all of a sudden there is doubt about who is who in the zoo”.

    Only one thing for it – bring on the “pencil test”; refined and re-calibrated by SANS and CSIR with ISO checking.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  • Brett Nortje

    Perhaps you’d like to rephrase this incredibly stupid argument?

    Blue Ozone says:
    January 16, 2013 at 7:07 am

    “they are in fact pursing capitalist policies that does in fact serve the interest of a very tiny white minority including their own elite”

    Those ‘capitalist policies’ also serve the interests of everyone who gets a child grant or a state pension or visits a state hospital or drives on a state road or goes to a state school. Its called T-A-X.

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    “The paradox is that we need racial (and other) identity categories to resist racial (and other forms of) oppression, even as we run the risk of thereby perpetuating the very system that we need to destabilise or even destroy.”

    That is clearly nonsense. And as we can see from what is happening now has failed miserably in South Africa. That is because real “oppression” and “disadvantage” is a measurable quantity, and is reflected in socio-economic status, and can vary dramatically between members of the same race, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation. Therefore you as a gay white studying at the Ivy League, has not necessarily suffered the same “oppression”/”disadvantage” as Sipho that macho 100% Zulu boy who just “matriculated” in backward rural Nkandla. You are in fact both individuals with human rights to dignity, and your relative disadvantage is contingent on your environment, your background, your socio-economic status and your different set of circumstances.

  • Gwebecimele

    Add e-Tolls and Eskom tariff increases to the poor consumer and the pot is simmering nicely. Pinch of unsecured lending and we are on our way to the promised land.

    http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-financial/how-low-will-retail-go

  • Gwebecimele

    Lessons from Cabinet. Mine bigger than yours.Kids are watching, Izikhothane.

    http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2013/01/16/boy-stabbed-to-death

  • http://www.ozoneblue.co.za/ Blue Ozone

    Gwebecimele
    January 16, 2013 at 10:16 am

    I’m just wondering what sort of spineless parents allow that. My son tells me very much the same, there are a significant minority of Black kids in his class who are openly insubordinate and disrespectful, to their teachers, sometimes taunting them and are disruptive to the rest of the class.

    They can be fucken glad they don’t grow up in my house, they are free to go and complain about all the evils of “male patriarchy” at UCT once they have grown some pubic hair and achieved a couple of As in matric.

  • See See

    What’s with our national football team singing party political war songs? Mshini Wam belongs to the oldest liberation movement known to man, not Bafana Bafana. Or is that part of the teams identity now? And I’ve just spent all that money on a replica shirt.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Gwebe

    There is no doubt a degree of corruption in the ANC government. President Zuma has now committed himself to rooting that out. What neither Ms Mazibuko nor the liberal press recognise is that what from a WHITISH perspective appears as corruption may be a manifestation of an anti-individuation, collectivist impulse, as captured in the traditional saying loosely translated as: “Each businessman is a businessman through other businessmen and politicians.”

  • Mike

    @Maggs – According to our previous exchange it would appear that Jane Duncan is a racist, if one follows your reasonings.

  • Mike

    @ Ozone Blue – What has happened to the four afrikaners who were supposedly going to blow up the Maungang conference

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 16, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Mike,

    “@Maggs – According to our previous exchange it would appear that Jane Duncan is a racist, if one follows your reasonings.”

    Only WHITE people are racist – Dworky will explain!

    p.s. “According to our previous exchange”, you (not Jane Duncan) are racist!

    p.p.s. Black people cannot be racist – Ozone Boy will explain.

  • Mike

    @Gwebecimele and MDF – Whiteness is about European culture the alternative in this modern world being Yellowness which pervades for now in the far east.
    The latter is known for it intolerance towards unions and cadre employment of party offiicials riding around in blue light convoys.
    I am talking about China, no boet I am talking about Japan and South Korea who still outperform China in technology.
    But lets exanine Blackness as an alternative to Whiteness and Yellowness,well we need to then do away with your written langauge translated by whites with the 1820 settlers and rewrite the black langauges in Mandarin because I dont know of any other written langauge in Africa that would cut it on the world stage.
    Rather backward thinking to this whiteness tag being afforded to certain people in this country after what was in the ground had adsolutely no value in Africa until the white man whiteness came along and put a value to what was in the ground.

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Mike

    “Whiteness is about European culture”

    I am no fan of political correctness, but I would ask you not to use the term “whiteness” on this blog. The correct term is WHITISHNESS. You may use the term WHITIST or WHITISINAL for the associated ideology, as in “WHITIST/WHITISINAL thinking.” Finally, the adjectival form is WHITISTIC, cf. “She has a WHITISTIC tendency.”

    Thanks.

  • See See

    I’ve read a lot about White and Black and now Yellow. There are other important colours. I want to know about the Green and Gold. Should the Green and Gold be singing songs belonging to the Black, Green and Yellow people. What about songs for the Blue people, Patricia may even want some songs for her old Orange friends. Do the Green and Gold belong to the whole rainbow or not?

  • Mike

    @MDF – According to which black consciouness dictionary.

  • Maggs Naidu

    Mike

    January 16, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Hey Mike,

    “until the white man whiteness came along and put a value to what was in the ground.”

    Don’t be shy, you’re amongst friends, you can say it.

    You mean the WHITE man STOLE the land, didn’t you??

  • Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder

    @ Mike

    See M. Bernal, ‘Interrogating Whistist Discourse: A Critical Critique’ (2007) (Penn Univ Press), p. 765-781.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – From who were the Gold fields or Kimberly stolen from.

  • Mike

    @MDF – That is not a dictionary comrade.See what they did not teach you at indoctrination school.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Mike

    “what was in the ground had adsolutely no value in Africa until the white man whiteness came along and put a value to what was in the ground.”

    We were not only naked but stupid and ignorant and you came and picked up everything from the ground. As JR would put it we were scratching our balls watching the sun and chicks picking up grains.

    Uyadelela.

  • Mike

    @Gwebecimele – you had an ally in Paul Kuger because he referred to the discovery of gold as a curse.He too preferred to stand in the sun and scratch his balls.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 16, 2013 at 13:55 pm

    Mike,

    “@Maggs – From who were the Gold fields or Kimberly stolen from.”

    Bonga, Hpele, Situya, Bra Georgie, Henkus, Swartbooi and some others!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mikhail Dworkin Fassbinder
    January 16, 2013 at 13:22 pm

    Dworky,

    “See M. Bernal, ‘Interrogating Whistist Discourse: A Critical Critique’ (2007) (Penn Univ Press), p. 765-781.”

    Mike is not an idiot – everyone knows that The Critical Critique has 764 pages!

  • Gwebecimele

    I knew this honeymoon with Shabangu was not going to last. Mugabe is not playing marbles next door.

    Empty threats on mining licenses and land act are just hot air.
    Ask Ramaphosa about the little book called constitution.

    http://www.thenewage.co.za/78697-9-53-Stop_Amplats_restructuring_UDM

  • Gwebecimele
  • Zoo Keeper

    Prof

    Pretty much spot on.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – couple of whitishness names there, so I think you dreamt that up

  • Gwebecimele

    Give Russell a “Bells”. He is a responsible and brave citizen.

    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Man-locks-up-drunk-cop-20130116

  • Gwebecimele
  • ozoneblue

    @gwebs

    Unfortunetly those high flying politicians come business people never invite us racist Whites to their parties cause we are too “collectivist” in our thinking and tend to spoil all their fun. However Im sure maggs may have received an invite because there is always space for another bargaining Indian who as long as they donate handsomely and toe the line.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 16, 2013 at 15:54 pm

    So Mike,

    “@Maggs – couple of whitishness names there, so I think you dreamt that up”

    This I haven’t dreamed up …

    https://twitter.com/maggsnaidu/status/291642360138452992/photo/1/large

    WDYSTT???

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ozoneblue
    January 16, 2013 at 21:14 pm

    Ozone Boy,

    “another bargaining Indian who as long as they donate handsomely and toe the line.”

    Here’s one who donated handsomely and toed the line too …

    Ahmed Timol was a young schoolteacher in Roodepoort who opposed apartheid. He was arrested at a police roadblock on 22 October 1971, and died five days later. He was the 22nd political detainee to die in detention since 1960. Many more were to follow…

    Forty-one years after his death, and 16 years after his mother’s appearance before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in search of closure, the circumstances that led to Ahmed Timol plunging from the 10th floor of John Vorster Square Police Station remain shrouded in mystery.

    An inquest did not bother to explain the gruesome marks that covered Timol’s body, finding that he had committed suicide by jumping to his death. Timol, 29-years-old, would have been 70 today. Security police coined the term, “Indians can’t fly”, in reference to his death.

    http://www.ahmedtimol.co.za/

  • Brett Nortje

    ozoneblue says:
    January 16, 2013 at 21:14 pm

    That is the same racist outfit that are offering start-up capital for blacks only on TV.

    Just to show how far their heads are up their asses the advert starts by asking little kids what they want to be when they grow up.

    Off course, all the little kids want to be doctors and lawyers.

    What they are going to be is unemployed, thanks to the ANC and Cosatu.

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, give us the annual figures for deaths in detention under ANC rule?

    (Not Camp Quatro – since 1994?)

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 17, 2013 at 9:31 am

    G,

    “Maggs, give us the annual figures for deaths in detention under ANC rule?”

    Zero!

  • Brett Nortje

    http://www.jonchristianryter.com/2013/130113.html

    Fascinating stuff:

    “But how many times have you read the Constitution? The nice thing about the Founding Fathers is that they wrote a document that an uneducated farmer could understand. It does not require a lawyer to interpret it. The lawyers who have, and who created about 1.5 million pages of law from this simple document that easily fits on one side of an 24″ X 34″ sheet of paper, did so to make our rights so complicated that you would need a bevy of lawyers to understand them—although none of the lawyers would agree what they wrote actually meant.”

    To what extent does this apply to us?

  • Brett Nortje

    Not your IQ, Maggs!

    Deaths in detention….

  • Brett Nortje
  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 17, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Hey G,

    “they wrote a document that an uneducated farmer could understand.”

    Well, our President, Professor Zuma, is not a farmer – perhaps that’s why he struggles a bit (ok a lot) with understanding how our Constitution works!

  • Brett Nortje

    Cover up!

    http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Wapens-Klad-op-paneel-20130116

    Wapens: Klad op paneel

    2013-01-16 22:53
    Maryna Lamprecht

    Die integriteit van die Seriti-kommissie wat die wapenskandaal ondersoek, is onder ernstige verdenking nadat ’n bedankingsbrief van een van sy ondersoekers uitgelek het.

    Die senior ondersoeker beweer daarin die kommissie is nié deursigtig nie en bedryf ’n alternatiewe of “tweede agenda”.

    Norman Moabi, ’n prokureur en voormalige waarnemende regter van Pretoria, het in sy bedankingsbrief aan regter ­Willie Seriti, voorsitter van die kommissie, gesê hy bedank weens inmenging en omdat hy vertroue verloor het in die kommissie se werk.

    “Ek het na die kommissie gekom om met integriteit, waardigheid en waarheidliewendheid te dien. Ek kan nie met ’n skoon gewete voorgee dat ek blind is vir wat by die kommissie aan die gang is nie.”

    Volgens Moabi bestuur Seriti die kommissie met ’n ysterhand en word inligting gemanipuleer en van sommige kommissielede weerhou.

    Bydraes van individue wat nie die “tweede agenda” najaag nie, word glo geïgnoreer.

    Hy haal ook stellings aan wat blykbaar deur Seriti gemaak is om sy bewerings te staaf:
    – “Wanneer ons met die eerste getuies afgereken het, sal hulle nie weer geluide maak in die openbare media nie.”
    – “Wanneer ’n mens kyk na die voorleggings van die Terry Crawford-Brownes van die wêreld, besef ’n mens dit is nie feitlik nie, maar gegrond op hoorsê. Daar is geen meriete in wat hulle tot dusver in die openbare media gesê het nie.”

    Crawford-Browne, wapentransaksie-aktivis, het hom einde verlede jaar na die VSA se departement van justisie gewend omdat hy vertroue in die kommissie verloor het.

    Hy het gister gesê Moabi se bedankingsbrief bevestig sy vermoede dat die kommissie allermins oop en deursigtig is.

    “Die kommissie hardloop al langer as ’n jaar rond sonder om enigiets te vermag. Die hele ding is bedoel om net nóg ’n toesmeerdery te wees.”

    Beeld het Moabi gekontak, maar hy wou nie kommentaar lewer nie.

    Hy was verras dat Beeld van die inhoud van die brief, wat hy op papier ingedien het, bewus is.

    William Baloyi, woordvoerder van die Seriti-kommissie, het gesê die kommissie het net een agenda en dit is om die saak te ondersoek soos bepaal deur die president. “Enige ander agenda waarna mnr. Moabi verwys, is ’n versinsel.”

    Baloyi het gesê die kommissie is besig om voorbereidings te tref vir die openbare verhore wat in Maart sal begin.

    “Ons gee die Suid-Afrikaanse publiek die versekering dat alle tersaaklike inligting in ons besit ten volle openbaar gemaak en bevraagteken sal word tydens die openbare verhore.”

    Wie is Moabi?
    – Norman Moabi bedryf ’n regsfirma, Moabi Attorneys, in Pretoria;
    – Hy was in 2002-’03 ’n president van die Prokureursorde van die Noordelike Provinsies (PONP);
    – Hy is ’n lid van die organisasie National Association of Democratic Lawyers (Nadel);
    – Hy het vir ’n termyn waargeneem as regter in die hooggeregshof in Pretoria; en
    – Moabi se integriteit word deur sy kollegas as “bo verdenking” beskryf.

    – Philip de Bruin

  • Mike

    @Maggs – Indians cant fly but they can jump.Zero deaths in detention, obviously your are resorting to tautlogy here because taking people into custody and detaining them are one of the same thing and their have been many deaths in this regard.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    LOL @ Prof Jansen!

    Welcome to the real world.

    But I am always telling my students and friends to “get over” the bitter memories of the past, and my leadership talks encourage a bold and inclusive generosity that moves our beautiful country forward. “Learn to manage your memories,” I chided my generation of Cape Town friends who still support the New Zealand All Blacks when they play against the Springboks. …

    And in that moment all the memories of what Newlands means came flooding back with a hint of vengeance.

    http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2013/01/17/past-makes-painful-return

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Mike,

    “@Maggs – Indians cant fly but they can jump.Zero deaths in detention, obviously your are resorting to tautlogy here because taking people into custody and detaining them are one of the same thing and their have been many deaths in this regard.”

    Maybe you should rephrase that – I cannot make sense of it.

    It is garbled – must be the damn Blackberry, eh!

  • Mike

    @Brett Nortje – I am busy reading a book at the moment called Who Rules South Africa and what you have posted above is standard practice for the ANC.
    I am afraid that we have a goverment that is on par with what one can now expect from Africa which is a disappointment as they had the opportunity to disprove generalisations about black goverments in africa.

    We what is a totally corrupt and immoral goverment that is beyond redemtion and I have often asked myself the question just where would this country have been if we had one man one vote in 1912 or there abouts when the ANC was formed and have come to the conclusion that it would have been no different with that of the Congo with Maggs and his extended indian family expelled back to India or the UK.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Hayibo Mike,

    “with Maggs and his extended indian family expelled back to India or the UK.”

    Just who is capable of “expelling” us?

    Your granny???

  • Mike

    @Maggs – We have been waiting 17 years for the indian community to a produce a front row for the Sharks rugby so you are hardly qualified to comment of Prof Jansens view on Newlands until such time as that happens.
    Until now even Bafana requires an AA policy that can accomodate indians in other words in a sport that actually requires you to run and exert yourself serious allowances need to be made including that whitishness sport swimming which by and large were our medals on the olympic board barring rowing.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – No the blacks, as would have happened if the whites did not come to the indians assistance in the 1948 and Cato Manor riots of the late 1950’s

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 11:12 am

    LMAO Mike,

    “@Maggs – We have been waiting 17 years for the indian community to a produce a front row for the Sharks rugby so you are hardly qualified to comment of Prof Jansens view on Newlands until such time as that happens.”

    Again your facts are as twisted as your mind.

    Prof Jansen was talking about er, um, watching the New Zealand versus South Africa Test from the members’ pavilion at the Newlands Cricket Ground. :P

    In case you don’t understand that – he was at a CRICKET match!

    You’re overtaking Ozone Guy as the stupidest on this blog!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 11:14 am

    LMAO II Mike,

    “@Maggs – No the blacks, as would have happened if the whites did not come to the indians assistance in the 1948 and Cato Manor riots of the late 1950′s”

    So you granny cannot “expel” us ne!

  • Mike

    @Maggs – If you read the article properly he was asked why he does not support the Stormers.

  • Mike

    @Maggs – So who is the “does” now.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Mike

    “@Maggs – So who is the “does” now”

    I dunno who’s the “does” – but you are to “DOOS”!

    p.s. Try reading that article again – ask someone to help you understand it. You’re really, really dim – before 1994 you would have qualified to be a manager!

  • Mike

    @Maggs – There is clear reference to the Stormers, the All Blacks and the Springboks in Jansens article, so, “you are the authentic indian, goodbye.”

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 17, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Hayibo Mike,

    “@Maggs – There is clear reference to the Stormers, the All Blacks and the Springboks in Jansens article”

    Those are asides (the piece is about his experience watching the SA/NZ CRICKET game).

    Do you know what an aside is?

    It’s like after 1994, racists ought to have been set aside.

    I hope it’s clear now.

  • Brett Nortje

    You mean ‘Maggs’ World’…

    Go file a grievance, my vengeful little friend!

    Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com) says:
    January 17, 2013 at 10:58 am
    LOL @ Prof Jansen!

    Welcome to the real world.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 17, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Hey G,

    “Welcome to the real world.”

    You mean Woodmead World of Golf, don’t you?

    The one where Nathan Maluleka got klapped cos he’s Black!

    https://www.facebook.com/FriendsOfNathan

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)
  • Brett Nortje

    ‘Klapped’? You’re hysterical over a coupla ‘klaps’?

    Want to play the game again where I trump your ‘klaps’ with a report on a white woman executed in cold blood on a plot outside Pretoria, or a couple of ‘Old white people murdered and stuffed in freezer’ reports?

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, I’ve been too nice to you the last couple of months.

    You’re like my male Dobermanns used to be. Three days of ‘Good boy’ and strokies and you’re answered with a growl on day 4.

  • Maggs Naidu

    Brett Nortje

    January 17, 2013 at 13:14 pm

    Goofy,

    Check the link – there’s a picture especially since you struggle with words.

  • Gwebecimele

    @ Maggs

    Nathan’s wife mentioned that at first they were asked by the owner not to lay charges. If this this true the Darryl’s letter means nothing.

    As for Jansen, that was just a reminder that he is not “authentic” irrespective of position, status, earnings etc. Unlike PdV those members know better.

  • Brett Nortje

    Maggs, you’re the one who trivialised an obviously serious assault as a ‘klapping’?

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Brett Nortje
    January 17, 2013 at 20:34 pm

    Hey G,

    “Maggs, you’re the one who trivialised an obviously serious assault as a ‘klapping’?”

    Conscience bothering you?

    It should.

    But I don’t do confessions.

    Try the padre!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    ozoneblue
    January 16, 2013 at 21:14 pm

    Hey Ozone Boy,

    “However Im sure maggs may have received an invite because there is always space for another bargaining Indian who as long as they donate handsomely and toe the line.”

    What do you say to this eh???

    A R1.25-billion contract to supply “smart” electricity meters to the City of Johannesburg was manipulated to favour Vivian Reddy, one of President Jacob Zuma’s key benefactors, information obtained by the Mail & Guardian suggests.

    Reddy reportedly paid R450 000 for a table at the ANC’s anniversary gala dinner in Durban last week, when Zuma made the controversial remark that “wise” businessmen who supported the ANC could expect that “everything you touch will multiply”.

    The city and its utility City Power, which procured the meters, have denied any irregularities in awarding the tender. But key discrepancies uncovered by the M&G suggest otherwise. They include:

    Detailed allegations that an initial technical evaluation scoresheet was amended to improve the result for Reddy’s company, Edison Power;
    The revised scoring pushed another bidder, Hefcom, below the cut-off 70% technical score. When price was factored in, Hefcom – whose bid was half the cost of Edison’s – would have scored better than Edison;
    A letter informing Edison it had won the bid is dated before City Power supply chain management even received the bid recommendation or the chair of the adjudication committee had signed off on the decision;
    Edison’s share of the contract was pushed up from an initial recommendation of a R600-million share of an R800-million contract to an exclusive contract for R1.25-billion; and
    A man central to the award, City Power chief executive Sicelo Xulu, is alleged to be “friends with Zuma” though he denies this.

    There is no evidence suggesting foul play on the part of Reddy or Edison.

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-01-18-00-joburgs-r1bn-present-to-zuma-benefactor

  • Mike

    @Maggs – why are you surprised, I have referred to this relationship in previous blogs before.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 18, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Mike

    I am not surprised.

    As always this goes to FUCK THE POOR!

  • Mike

    @Maggs – On this column there has been some serious finger pointing about racial generalisations but at the end of the day it comes down to the fact that the likes of Zuma and Reddy have been exploiting these racial devisions in this country in order to embark on fraudulent and corrupt activities.
    So if you want to harp on about everything seemingly being a race issue like the actions of the Head mistress of Rivonia primary then fine, like Rajbansi you will be the loser at the end of the day.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Mike
    January 18, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Mike,

    Go back to the beginning of those threads – it was not me who introduced the racist rhetoric.

    At worst I was refuting loose talk!

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    … we might also ask the question of how certain chiefs and council members seem to receive very handsome salaries and benefits while families go without clean drinking water. All calls for aboriginal leaders to address these issues result in defiance. I have spoken to a number of people who have been involved in working with aboriginal communities, and they consistently express grave concerns on how funding is used by a few to benefit their lives at the expense of lives of all community members. …

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/18/sen-patrick-brazeau-the-unsolved-mysteries-of-aboriginal-affairs-and-northern-development-canada/

  • Brett Nortje

    Hey, Maggs, I’ve been searching hard but have not managed to find any.

  • Maggs Naidu – Yikes, another seven years! (maggsnaidu@hotmail.com)

    Hey Dmwangi,

    WDYSTT, eh???

    I think they were insulting you, ne!

    Can non-Europeans think?
    What happens with thinkers who operate outside the European philosophical ‘pedigree’?

    There are many important and active philosophers today: Judith Butler in the United States, Simon Critchley in England, Victoria Camps in Spain, Jean-Luc Nancy in France, Chantal Mouffe in Belgium, Gianni Vattimo in Italy, Peter Sloterdijk in Germany and in Slovenia, Slavoj Zizek, not to mention others working in Brazil, Australia and China.

    What immediately strikes the reader when seeing this opening paragraph is the unabashedly European character and disposition of the thing the author calls “philosophy today” – thus laying a claim on both the subject and time that is peculiar and in fact an exclusive property of Europe.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/01/2013114142638797542.html

  • Hlangi Vundla

    The Setswna version of our national anthem calls upon the Creator to end all wars and HUNGER. Our president as number one citizen should be at the helm of those who want to see this prayer realized. But if he is going to reward those with millions who support the ANC, what about the millions who went to bed last night without a meal and will do so again tonight.
    According to ubuntu the child who goes abegging is your responsibility not those who already have Mr President

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