Much has already been written about the appalling attacks on fellow Africans in Alexandra and elsewhere around Gautentg. It is, of course, easy to take the moral high ground and condemn the attacks and it is good to see that a cross section of politicians and civil society groups have done just that. But it is more difficult to try and understand this dreadful manifestation of prejudice and hatred.
Two quite different approaches to this problem seems evident. On Thought Leader Michael Trapido has posted a provocative piece in which he argues that the people of Alexandra are Diepsloot who have spearheaded the attacks, looting and murder of foreigners are owed an apology for the insensitive way they have been treated by the press, experts and politicians.
Money quote:
Many “experts” and politicians are jumping on to the “clampdown on xenophobia” bandwagon without so much as a casual remark about those victims suffering from uncontrolled immigration run wild. Perhaps they’d best remember that these so-called members of a third force (or criminals, as they are so quick to judge them) are, in the main, simply the residents of towns and cities overrun by immigrants.
So, if only we had better border control and kept out those evil immigrants it would not have been necessary for the good people of Alexandra and Diepsloot to murder them and loot their belongings. This seems deeply wrongheaded to me. It is one thing to try and understand the frustrations of poor people who feel desperate and are therefore looking around for someone to blame. It is another to suggest that the problem is not xenophobia but the fact that there are too many immigrants. This smacks of blaming the victim and is not in accordance with the values of a human rights based society which we want to create in this country.
A much better analysis – at least as far as I am concerned – is the piece in this morning’s City Press by Andile Mngxitama who points out that not all foreigners are targeted in these attacks. White foreigners coming from the UK or Australia (god forbid) are not called names like “makwerekwere” and their homes are not looted and burnt. As Mngxitama points out:
Since these attacks are targeted at black Africans, why do we continue using the term xenophobia, which generally refers to the hatred of foreigners? Our country doesn’t hate all foreigners, in fact white foreigners are revered by both rich and poor blacks. The rise of negrophobia is the logical conclusion of our failure to decolonise our minds and also socioeconomic realities. Government and public responses are disingenuous and woefully inadequate. What have we done to help the victims in Alex? We need action not nice talk……
We have failed to humanise our society through genuine freedom which leads to material and psychological liberation. The depoliticisation and demobilisation of our communities to influence the post-1994 politics of profits above people are contributing factors….The colonial border and the criminalisation of Africans is complicated by the anti-black racism rife in South Africa and etched in the psyches of both blacks and whites.
This is perhaps our dirty little secret: that race hatred (whether one can call it racism is another debate) is shared by many South Africans of all colours. Some of my foreign students tell me of how they are often discriminated against and vilified by both black and white South Africans because they happen to have a skin colour that is darker than the average South African.
Are these attacks not a sign of how successful apartheid has been in instilling race based prejudices in our hearts? The big question is, of course, how to begin to address this race based prejudice. This is not an easy question to anaswer. Maybe we can start by ending the denial that such prejudices exist amongst our brothers and sisters. More complicated is the question of how we begin to undo the hundreds of years of race based thinking on which such prejudices are based given the fact that white racism is still so rife and given that we still need affirmative action to overcome past oppression.
It would be naive and irresponsible merely to run around claiming that race does not matter or that we are all just human beings and that race should therefore be banished from our lexicon. That is the favourite strategy of those whites who do not wish to acknowledge the injustices of the past. Maybe a more nuanced understanding of race is required. An understanding that starts with the acknowledgment that while race is very real for most South Africans (because it is the basis on which they have been oppressed), race is a construction – an invention of the West.
But I cannot pretend I know how I would begin such a discussion with the people of Alexandra and Diepsloot without sounding like an effete Latte drinking, white liberal. All I know, if we do not talk about these things, the days will only get darker in South Africa – and I am not talking about Eskom.
Pierre,
It is a complicated issue. I agree. And before I attempt any kind of feeble analysis of this issue, I would like to express my deepest sympathy with the victims of the attacks in Alexander and at the same condemn the attacks.
To begin with, I see this issue not as simple issue of xenophobia nor negrophobia. It is a poverty issue. It is a consequence of a scramble for few available resources among desperate and vulnerable people. For sometime now people have been warning that the extent of poverty in this country- compounded by poor service delivery- was a ticking time bomb. These were also the views of the two clergy men who visited the area soon after the first attacks were reported. And I agree with them. This means that nothing the politicians say- apart from deploying heavy armoured police vehicles- can help defuse the situation. This view makes politicians – especially from the ruling party (ANC)- partly to blame for the problem.
It cannot be xenophobia, nor negrophobia, for that matter. I believe the people of Alexander are hospitable and loving people (as are most South Africans, including the readers of this blog). Their hospitality and generosity is being test by the outpour of immigrants who setup camp in their areas and compete with locals for the meagre resources available. This is where I agree with you, Pierre, that our border control system needs tightening. Yes, our leaders took exile in neighbouring countries, but the numbers are not the same. The last time I checked the number of Zimbabweans (legal and otherwise) currently in South Africa, fleeing persecution back home, is estimated between 3-5 million, and it is growing. So the locals are overwhelmed by the sheer number of immigrants surrounding them.
The claims by locals that immigrants are stealing their jobs appear not to be far-fetched as I always thought. I always thought that our locals are not industrious enough. But I hear that local employers (from security guard companies to farmers (commercial)) are employing unskilled or semi-skilled (illegal) immigrants, knowing sometimes that they illegal, and pay then peanuts or with foodstuff. After few months of employment, and when they have settled in, they immigrants demand better conditions of employment, the employers (especially farmers) call the police and have the immigrants arrested and then deported. If this is true, it is a worse kind of exploitation of vulnerable immigrants. And because of their vulnerability our employers choose the immigrants over the locals. This is one of the examples how immigrants steal jobs of the locals.
Of course all this does not excuse the slaughter of immigrants at the instance of the locals. It is a bad advertisement for South Africans who are naturally kind, welcoming, and generous people. But these incidents are the effects of that poverty-ticking-time bomb gone off. We saw the first effects with the service delivery protests which put this country undersierge in 2006 (ahead of the March local government elections), with everyday crime, and now with these attacks on immigrants. I do not have an answer to the problem, but for a start; we need to tighten our border control and ensure that whoever enters SA has the necessary is documented and has sufficient resources to provide for themselves; improve and speedup service delivery to our people; strengthen our poverty alleviation programmes and reduce unemployment. May be then we will have happier residents.
“But it is more difficult to try and understand this dreadful manifestation of prejudice and hatred.”
Pierre, your being hypocritical. But don’t worry, so is allot of other people.
You have know that these attacks have been going on for some time. And as far as I know you have never written about them. In just one month in 2006 40 Somalis were killed just outside of Cape Town.
Seven people were burnt to death outside Atteridgeville a month ago.
I know you know because I have written about it in comments on this blog.
But not a peep from you.
If this set of attacks had not started near the heart of power in SA, Johannesburg and therefore in the full media glare, but lets say outside Polokwane, you would not have written this post.
Why this sudden concern. Or should I ask why did you not care then?
And the weird thing now is because there is media coverage, and because the government’s response is so obviously ineffectual and apparent for all to see, this is probably going to spread.
This is creating major instability. And once the rage against the foreigners have been expended, perhaps we’ll see a return of the violence between black South Africans. NUM last year commissioned a report showing seething tensions between various black South African groups on the mines. And yes there has been killings.
The comparison with whites now is pure idiocy. How many whites are immigrating here? Last time I checked they were leaving. I don’t know of many whities have moved into Alex or Diepsloot anyhow.
Since the end of apartheid whities don’t go to townships anymore unless they are tourists.
I agree with Siya in that its the actual interaction with others that creates the resentment. This is true the world over.
It takes time to integrate and you need a safe caring environment to make it easy.
What’s different here is that there is hardly any state to offer services and the level of the violence and cruelty.
If you live in Alex you have no services, no protection, and when a crime has been committed the police investigation can be bought and sold.
The result? Theres no trust, the social fabric is in shreds, everybody just looks out for themselves. So when the racists and opportunists appear, society does not stop them. The baddies can have their way.
The first problem is that we are constantly being told that we a born of miracle. Now miracles are, by nature, of devine intervention. If you look closely, that would mean that we are closer to the creator since we are the ones the creator performed miracles on. The danger to that is we start thinking we deserve things we did not work for. Worse still, we start thinking that we can get by on miracles. Mostly, we start thinking that we are better than the rest. We start giving them names to unappealing to include on this post. This is exactly what happened to us. We are the incubators of people like the Waterkloof 4. I fail to see the difference. Call it poverty, call it joblessness or whatever. I call it demanding thi
Is ‘hatred’ a ‘phobia’?
Is ‘hatred’ a ‘phobia’?
Good question.
Seems its spreading. I wish the government will call in the army.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/18/africa/saf.php
Wessel, I agree. We’ve had enough of this, which is nothing but denial and ignorance of human rights. As far as the question about a ‘phobia’ vs ‘hatred’ is concerned, the question was intentional because I have noted that Prof de Vos has frequently blogged about ‘homophobia’ where, sometimes, I really got the impression that he was meaning ‘hatred towards homosexuals’. Perhaps ‘phobias’ (Afrikaans – ‘vrese’) incites ‘hatred’ towards that which is feared? Nevertheless, a ‘phobia’ or a ‘hatred’, they are equally deprecable.
I have a couple of issues I’d like to address, sorry for the long post, but I believe I have some valid points:
1. The why not the whites argument is indeed a poor one. It is practically difficult for residents in Alexandra and many other townships to mount such a campaign to include whites, since few whites are living there. They would need transport, financing and better organisation to extend such a campaign to “white” areas. I also suspect some probably don’t even view whites as direct competitors for unskilled jobs.
2. I feel unhappy about the SABC’s reporting on this matter. Two nights in a row they have started the report with some South African, who was attacked, trying to emphasize the criminal element. Though mentioning Xenophobia, they seem to be wanting to play it down. Most reports agree that mainly foreigners are being attacked, so the fact that a very few SA citizens were also hurt, deserves passing mention in the bigger context. Not starting a report with it and interviewing ONLY a local citizen.
I then watched the same report on ETV, with a very different take on things. For example the SABC report did not even mention Patricia de Lille’s call for refugee camps to be set up, ETV showed it. The SABC report seemed biased towards emphasis on the criminal element. Of course we don’t want to send out a bad message to the world, by over emphasis, but is this not a sufficiently dire situation, to rather focus on solutions, than playing down the actual events?
(if I am wrong and missed a minute of the SABC report somewhere, then please correct me)
3. Now here is a question for PIERRE. ETV reported that the government does not want to set up refugee camps because it is unconstitutional and they view them as glorified prisons. They say our constitution affords refugees the same rights as local citizens. Is this a correct interpretation?
There are some advantages to setting up refugee camps, in contrast to having them fully integrate into our society. The uncontrolled integration does seem to be giving problems. I have read reports which suggest that they want to reintegrate the foreigners.
What can reasonably been done within our constitutional boundaries?
4. The history of racial prejudice in our country argument. Some have said that South African black people (very broad yes) hate themselves. This self-hatred leads them to not like blacker blacks. I do see some parallels with apartheid views, in white views of blacks (even English views of Afrikaners) and I believe it is relevant to our context. But without completely negating it, I have to wonder about this logic. Taken this logic further, shouldn’t we be seeing SA blacks also killing themselves? Apartheid did not differentiate in terms of how black you were, you were considered black.
If you were light skinned and Somali or Zimbabwean, would you not still have been a target in these attacks? I believe the racism argument applied to this situation is relevant but weak, and cannot currently see it as a principle motivation.
5. There is a further issue I would like to bring up in this context, since I don’t know where to bring this up, and it is related.
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/
This article is also about this issue. But one point I found very strange and have gotten no response from the author. I was hoping to get some perspective especially from my African brothers/sisters on this blog.
“South Africans need to understand that black African foreigners are not to be feared, treated as sub–human or purged. Failing that, I feel on the passing of Tatu Mandela we may experience a purge transient, which would have the world disgusted and may permanently scar us.”
What is the significance of Mandela’s passing? What is the logic behind it? (I only have some guesses) And how prevalent is it? Why would Mandela’s passing make the plight of foreigners worse? Where does it come from?
In 1997 there was this infamous incident:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=arch63833be7ee312f02f
“Cape Town An ANC councillor, caught driving down the wrong way on the N1, allegedly threatened arresting officers with the remark: “When Mandela dies we will kill you whites like flies.”
Mzukisi Gaba, an executive committee member with the Cape metropolitan council, was arrested at 2.50am yesterday near the Koeberg interchange. ”
Of course some in the Afrikaner community have been frenzied about this, with lots of rumours.
I just found it very surprising that the author of that article brought it up in this context.
Of course if that does happen then the world will suddenly sit up and take notice and call for all kinds of things to happen. The world seems desensitized to so called black-on-black violence.
z, excellent post.
> The world seems desensitized to so called black-on-black violence.
And to me it seems so does Pierre, because this has a long history and only now does he choose to address this.
I have also heard the rumour so many times when with my Afrikaner family that when Mandela dies there will be a massacre. I have always told them not to be silly.
To other things said this week can be referenced in this regard. I blogged about one.
http://mhambi.blogspot.com/2008/05/zonke-majodina-in-alex-denial.html
The second in command of that great capter 9 institution the SAHRC, Zonke Majodina, made a curious statement.
An exasperated SABC interviewer asked her whether giving press statements is enough.
“You have got to understand” she said, “the xenophobia has a perceptive element to it.
People have fears, prejudices, it’s racially motivated in the sense that we don’t perpetrate xenophobic attacks on white immigrants, but we only do it to Africans.”
What does this statement mean? Which white immigrants? Are there any except the Bafana Bafana coach? Or does she mean whites are still just immigrants and not African?
The other one was picked up by Tim du Plessis.
http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Blogs/0,,752-2364_2323645,00.html
Een reaksie wat my egter laat kopkrap het, was dié een van mnr. Mapeete Mohale van die SA Instituut vir Rasse-verhoudinge, ’n instelling op wie se menings jy altyd kan ag slaan.
Die regering moet beter beheer toepas oor die getalle van immigrante wat die land binnekom. Dis nie “in die land se belang” dat daar byna net soveel immigrante in Suid-Afrika is as wittes nie, aldus Mohale.
Hoekom word immigrante se getalle met dié van wittes in verband gebring?
Of wil Mohale sê die land het reeds soveel “wit immigrante” dat hy nie nog omtrent ewe veel nie-wit immigrante ook kan hanteer nie?
And there is something else that has happened this week that is symtomatic of black reactions to white South Africans. Constand Viljoen, ex SADF Chief and now 74 was accosted by two robbers in Ohrigstad.
http://www.news24.com/Rapport/Nuus/0,,752-795_2324251,00.html
The street was full of people, no doubt all black. And at first, while a 74 year old man was fighting two robbers, nobody did anything. In spite of his wife pleading that they should. Why not?
My father is 75, two years ago he experienced the same thing in the center of Krugersdorp where he has worked as a doctor for almost all his life. Nobody came to help him. Why not?
Negrophobia.
NEGROPHOBIA ????
But I was told, amongst others via Sachs referring to it in every CC judgement (trying to elevate it to some constitutional principle ), and now even Davis alluding thereto in contractual context {Advtech 2008(2) 375 CPD at 388F } that by virtue of the angelic concept of ubuntu Blacks are inherently incapable of something like it.
I sense they were driven to the point by the Mbeki Africanism (allowing all and sundry into the country, as long as they are fellow Africans ) – just another example of how the government, on ideological grounds, are distanced from the feelings, emotions and daily experiences of ordinary people – the salt of South African soil. And now call them criminals.
“The street was full of people, no doubt all black. And at first, while a 74 year old man was fighting two robbers, nobody did anything.”
I used to work with a young black man named Dumi. He wasn’t very tall and was such a nice guy (I wish we hadn’t lost contact, and forgot his surname). He was mugged in Pretoria in broad daylight with many people around, near the state theatre. Two policeman weren’t far away so he called to them. The one asked him: “Why don’t you run after them, eh?”. The other officer of better stock, then proceeded to run after them.
Afterwards that other police officer told Dumi they were known criminals. No bystanders really helped them either. But these days, we live in violent times, you don’t know who has a gun and people fear getting involved. There is also the shock aspect where some people just need a minute or two to come to terms with what’s happening, and by that time it might be too late.
In 2002 in Mpumalanga I once hooted at a white guy, doing an extremely dangerous move with his car putting us in danger. It was but a reaction to hoot. He then proceeded to drive slower and winked at me to pull over. I didn’t, because I know those farmers often have guns with them and people are highly strung. I stay clear of hooters in SA! In 2006 in Roodepoort I saw a group fist fight (all white guys) in broad daylight over some road incident on Hendrik Potgieter, a main road.
We live in a tense and violent society, we have the murder capital, road rage capital and rape capital of the world (for those countries with decent stats), and that with rape under reported, and the definition of rape not even fully understood.
I would say that the Viljoen incident is not enough to go by, to make it a racial thing. We have a violent society, with fearful people not wanting to get involved.
I often say: In a fight it is not the strongest who wins, but he who is willing to go further.
If you use your hands and someone else uses a gun, it’s a lost cause right there.
What worries me about the case FOR the perpetrators is that they could have done the same thing with less violence. With a mob outside your door, you would willingly leave.
Sensitive viewers beware of what is contained in the following links.
http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=768842
http://multimedia.thetimes.co.za/photos/2008/05/xenophobic-attacks/
Bystanders were laughing at a man set on fire. LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The brutality and lack of respect for life. Already a Zimbabwean warned that they will not forget what SA is doing http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/16/xenophobia-residents-of-alexandra-owed-an-apology/ (Gerald Sibanda) .
My heart is sore.
This comment by IF was well said:
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/
“I think this kind of tribalism and resentment exists in every society, usually submerged and quiet at the bottom of the social sea bed. When the economic tide goes out, that’s when it appears.
When there is money and prospects, everyone is tolerant and loves their neighbour. When times are lean it’s a different story whether it’s Joburg in 2008 or Germany in 1932, or SA in 1948. People retreat into what they feel is their cultural group, the one that has the most claim to local resources. Culture is a product of economics.”
this has been simmering for so long and now it’s only getting some kind of reaction when it has spiralled completely out of control. but to laugh at someone burning to death? interesting view regarding less violence. why are the most violent, horrible ways always chosen?
I’m amazed that some of the people commenting here, especially my good friend Wessel
, actually bother reading Pierre’s posts – seeing that you regard him as being ‘hypocritical’. Maybe you should just remove his blog from your feeders?
How about playing the ball rather than the person? If you respect a person enough to take the trouble to read his blog, why not simply deal with the arguments put forth rather than labelling the person that penned them?
I realise Pierre will probably sleep soundly tonight, i.e. he doesn’t need my ‘protection’. This is not so much about him as person needing protection than being critical of a debating style I’ve picked up in the comments of the last few posts.
I realise that if you put yourself in the public space you also open yourself up to criticism. It’s a nasty world. But I don’t believe Pierre is running for public office (?), i.e. trying to sell himself as a candidate to his readers. He’s trading in ideas as we all are.
OK – that’s my sermon. amen.
I would like to enter this debate with a quote by one individual who stated that he remembers “mathematics in (his) school days. What I was always aware of was that if I was doing an equation, it did not matter how right my steps 2 to 10 were – if my step 1 was wrong, the result would also be incorrect”. While I acknowledge they are not the only ones affected my argument is based on the huge Zim immigrants. The core problem with the huge numbers of specifically Zimbabwean immigrants is another clear illustration of the policies and consequences that goes with it. The ‘first steps’ were not taken. The difficult decision was not made of taking a tougher stand on that government. Now similar to the manner in which the world discarded the warnings against Hitler’s rise to power, Africans (especially TM) seems to not have learnt from it all. Now the chicken has come to root. The bird has perched its nest at our doors and now is realising its waste on it. The foreign minister has the audacity to say that RSA does not want to cause any humanitarian situation in Zim as it will led to a “…mass exodus of immigrants that the country cannot afford to take”. But are they blind to the fact that they are already 3-5million immigrants from Zim, isn’t that a humanitarian crisis already?
Another point I would like to submit is the manner in which our government treats these immigrants. A number of people, including Thabo Mbeki were immigrants but never suffered such attacks nor were they discriminated against. So Khosi, who I have a feeling is going to place the blame on whites, colonialism and the west, is that they seem to to treat immigrants better than we do!
Finally I would to say that we’ve had our souls and conscience die over there in Alexander and we don’t even know it. Not really. But, maybe we don’t wanna know about other people dying. So lucky for us this was not previously televised. We’re not seeing images of children dying in the arms of their mothers in these places because they are not ‘legal. But they are! By the thousands! And all the south African leadership wants to concern itself with is whether the MDC is a liberation party or not. Those immigrants are dead in part because we have a people and a government in denial. We currently have no strategy to assit or fix that problem, other than keeping quiet. We have no solutions nor do we have a coherent plan of getting Zim out of such a mess. People are getting killed! And we as a nation are in denial. We simply don’t seem to care.
Prof thanks though for the article.
Thanks for the sermon Mike. But Pierre and I have a history on this blog. Pierre is very capable of dishing out criticism, I’m sure he can take it.
I would still like to hear Pierre’s take on the constitutional element I mentioned earlier. The government says refugee camps are unconstitutional. Are they?
What can reasonably be done in accordance with such a constitution? It’s wonderfully progressive but is it then not out of touch with practical realities and the sentiments of people on the ground?
There’s this guy by the name of Dosso Ndessomin from a co-ordination group which helps refugees, who has warned that it always starts with xenophobic incidents and then, when that no longer works, inter-tribal warfare begins. This would of course be far, far worse than anything we have seen so far. Ndessomin should know what he’s talking about, having escaped the terror in his native Ivory Coast and now lives in South Africa.
Z: go find ‘SANGONeT refugee rights in the spotlight’ via Google. It does indeed seem that refugee camps are out and refugees should be integrated into South African society. The big But is that it’s a total bummer to get classified as a refugee before one has that dubious privilege.
Yes I do not mind some robust discussion and criticism of my views. I often feel such criticism helps me to think through an issue and to refine my position. If you cannot stand the heat you should not be in the kitchen, as Hillary Clinton said a few weeks ago.
It is true that most (but not all) of the rights in the Bill of Rights apply to anyone who sets foot in South Africa but this does not mean our government cannot set up refugee camps just as it does not mean it cannot detain and deport foreigners who entered South Africa illegally – as long as it is done in terms of the law and not in an arbitrary and extra-legal way. One could not compel refugees to stay in such camps if they qualify as refugees as refugees have rights in international law and in terms of our law that undocumented immigrants do not have. I suspect the resistance against camps is all about pride, about how we will be perceived by the rest of the world, about not wanting to establish large refugee camps to which more foreigners will flock. It cannot have anything to do with concern for the rights of people who have been driven from their homes. In fact, it sounds like a preposterous argument to me. I would like to hear how such a view is justified, but I cannot imagine anyone making a plausible constitutional argument that refugee camps are unconstitutional.
Thanks Pierre.
At least something needs to be done regarding Home affairs’ failure to process these people in a timely manner. Such camps could at least serve as interim measures, and create an environment where the government can quantify what they are dealing with. And it would force them to process these people’s documents in a more timely manner.
At the moment with all the illegals, we don’t even really know how many there are. There is no strategy.
Thanks Clara. I briefly checked out the sangonet site, it sounds like they are doing good work, such as talking with banks etc.
What struck me on a different note was this:
“Monthly outreach sessions are held for South African’s to socialise with refugees”
I wish we I knew of such programs over here for doing the same with black/white relations as well. The freakin apartheid areas are still keeping many of us from meaningful contact. But more than that to have a platform to discuss black/white relational issues.
Mqo,
In my school days, teachers beat the living daylights out of a pupil just for being stupid. Funny thing is people remained stupid, thank god for the abolition of such punishment.
Needless to say, I escaped much of that. You on the other hand do not seem to have escaped it.
Now that some more people have commented here, I would again like to ask what the deal is with “when Mandela dies”. Where does it come from? How prevalent is it? What’s the reasoning? Well basically anything that can shed light on this.
In upsence of education, comes arrogance. In the presence of education comes wisdom and knowledge. I hope that we South Africans will understand sooner the level at which the world is opperating. Because we are viewed by the rest of the world and I wonder if one of us took a trip to overseas, how we expect that person to be treated over there(white-phobia or negrophobia), it does’nt make a diffence. We are all the same………………
Z – the ‘When Mandela Dies’ thing goes back quite some way, apparently to Siener van Rensburg, whose every prophecy is supposed to come true. Or so they say. I found quite a hilarious (in my opinion) forum for you at
http://forums.prophecy.co.za/f6/when-mandela-dies-729/
Thanks Clara, I’ve come across such forums, and I am not keen on spending too much time on listening to them, but also found it quite funny at that time. That’s why I was so surprised when the blogger I mentioned above brought it up in the context of the makwerekwere (the foreigners).
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/
I actually wanted to hear from some of the black commentators if they’ve come across this, because as mentioned earlier I know of the alleged statement by Mzukisi Gaba (which also surprised me since I never heard about it till recently) and the blogger.
Of course the ” what about the white immigrants” argument is utterly specious.
White immigrants don’t crawl under barbed wire fences and enter illegally, and then set about snaffling jobs and women off the locals. They enter through the front door, family in tow, having first satisfied many strict entry criteria, and usually they have been head-hunted for the scarce skills and/or job-creation they can bring to benefit all South Africans.
Why would you want to burn and stab people like that? They’re not in competition with you and, if you’re poor and black, you’re most definitely not in competition with them.
The only reason for launching xenophobic violence on white immigrants would be out of blind, mad envy.
Perhaps that neatly explains the thousands of white farmer killings?
First I must declare my interests – I am a UK citizen working in SA on a 6 contract. I find that the piece by Andile Mngxitama misses the point in all of this. She is right to say it is not xenophobia. I bet most of the people taking part in the looting, killing and pillaging do not pathologically hate foreigners, black, white or otherwise, they simply find themselves in a desperate situation without the tools to manifest their frustrations.
This is by no means intended to condone the violence perpetrated. I intend merely to point out that to go down the engrained racism of colonialism suffered over hundreds of years which afflicts us all (black and white) is miss the real issue.
The real issue is a lack of resources, jobs and education. The black South Africans perpetrating the violence do so in the main (excluding the criminal element taking advantage of the chaos) out of desperation and frustration. It is basic economics. The less people to share the cake with, the bigger my slice.
A lot has been made about the Zimbabweans here in SA. I believe a lot of ZImbabweans in SA illegally (out of their own desperation) would return to Zim if Mugabe was out of office. But where is SA President Mbekei in all of this. He has appearance to discuss the matter and stands shoulder to shoulder with Mugabe.
I’m coming round to Pierre’s view that Zuma may not be so bad afterall!
I am a Nigerian Living in the UK and I find all of this very disturbing. Unfortunately I don’t think we have or will ever see an end to this sort of violence in SA – at least not for many years to come.
Reading this blog I gather that this isn’t really news to most South Africans. At the risk of offending some of the readers of this blog with what could be considered a “black and white” view of the situation, I think that the black South Africans are cowards and have left it too late to stand up for their rights to a fairer society and quite frankly are targeting the wrong people.
For years they were oppressed by people well equipped to defend themselves, and now they pick on people who were once in their shoes? Perhaps if they had shown half as much passion in the days of apartheid, history would tell a different story today. They didn’t and so we are where we are today.
Surely the way forward is NOT to undergo and ethnic cleansing of all black foreigners, white foreigners or white South Africans, but for the inept government to invest in black communities where I believe the level of education leaves much to be desired and break this economy – crippling circle of uneducated black South Africans who cannot get themselves out poverty.
These people cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel because the do no have the tools they need to improve their financial position and not to aspire to. Unfortunately, history has shown that their children will walk the same parts in their God given country – and the anger grows.
The Nigerian government maybe corrupt (this might be a understatement) but Nigeria is littered with highly intelligent and educated people who again because of a history of inept governments cannot all find decent jobs. Surely they stand a better chance of getting good jobs in South Africa where presumably the jobs are available but perhaps there is a shortage of skilled employees.
Black South African need hope, they need skills, they need confidence in themselves.
I am doing Student who is currently doing the international baccalaureate (IB) diploma. In order to receive my diploma one of the elements that I have to do is a 40000 word essay called the extended essay. I have chosen Xenophobia as the field in which I will undertake this task under the subject Peace and conflict studies. My research question is what were the perceptions of foreigners that lead to the attacks and the possible solutions and future preventions? I would like to send all those who are interested a questioner which will give me a base to start my essay. My email address is lionofsa@hotmail.com .please send me an email if you gladly help me to carry out the questioner would truly be great full and very happy is you could help
****really sorry about the errors in the first post bt here is the proper one: I am a Student who is currently doing the international baccalaureate (IB) diploma. In order to receive my diploma one of the elements that I have to do is a 4000 word essay called the extended essay. I have chosen Xenophobia as the field in which I will undertake this task under the subject Peace and conflict studies. My research question is what were the perceptions of foreigners that lead to the attacks and the possible solutions and future preventions? I would like to send all those who are interested, a questioner which will give me a base to start my essay. My email address is lionofsa@hotmail.com .please send me an email if you gladly help me to carry out the questioner would truly be great full and very happy is you could help.