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	<title>Comments on: Xenophobic violence: why we (still) need ANC?</title>
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	<description>This blog deals with political and social issues in South Africa, mostly from the perspective of Constitutional Law. Written by Pierre de Vos</description>
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		<title>By: Medusa</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-3896</link>
		<dc:creator>Medusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-3896</guid>
		<description>With regard to everyone who commented on the above blog- you all make relevant statements and are to a lesser or greater degree correct. Let me just add my sentiments.

Xenophobia- I don&#039;t really understand this. People say that theu foreigners are a threat as they take jobs. Maybe this is true but I&#039;ve had a lot to do with foreign Africans and many of them are actually highly skilled, trained and qualified individuals, comprising of doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers... (the list goes on) in their own countries, yet they are reduced to busting tables, being carguards or gardenboys. You must think how bad life is in their respective countries if they are contend to be a lowly carguard in SA when they are a doctor in say the DRC. Have some empathy for them as well. In their country their qualification means next to nothing when everyone (or the vast majority of the populace) are starving. I&#039;m not condoning them taking our peoples jobs but if our own people don&#039;t use the oppotunities available then it is only obvious that others will... Our people seem to forget that these same people who they now victimise protected their farthers, mothers , grandparents etc when they need to escape the Apartheid goverment. These people harboured our fugitives (maybe unwillingly and grudgingly in some cases but nonethe less they did) and this is how we repay them??!!! Talk about a knife in the back and a kick in the stomach when they&#039;re down!!!

ANC: Unfortunately I have no great love of the ANC and I don&#039;t think they are doing enough to keep this country on its feet. To be fair they got the country when it was in a political mess after apartheid and so on, but they have done very little (for the most part) to better it or keep their promises. Most of our people starve while our goverment and cabinet ministers stuff their pockets with cash, jet all over the world on tax-payers money (money which should go toward bettering our country for everyone) and turn a blind eye to blatant corruption! Doesn&#039;t it just reek of  Zimbabwe to any of you???? I don&#039;t know who would be better at governing this country, but if something isn&#039;t done soon, our country will only fall into the same pit that has claimed the rest of Africa!!! SA has so much potential, we just don&#039;t have anyone capable of  exploiting that potential in a positive way...

Madiba and the night of the long knives: Many of you can laugh at such a notion, but ethnic cleansing has happened many times before in many different cultures (Hitler, Amin, Mau Se Tung, Yugoslavia, Chaka, Rwanda...the list is endless). However, no matter what any of you say, those that say a night of the long knives is coming are probably right, although it may not just be aimed at only whites. As we have seen with xenophobia, our people seem unkindly disposed towards all who are different. It will be about a balance of power- whoever is not in power will have to fear for their lives. 

However it has to be said that all the leaders in this country have (at least publically) great respect for Mandela and who wouldn&#039;t have... Therefore they will not attempt anything of this calibre while there is still air left in his lungs and a beating heart in his chest. After his death it will be a different story. I&#039;m not saying it will be instantaneous either, but it will be subtle at first before people start realising what has been happening. The ANC counsillor&#039;s comment is not the first that I have heard or heard of and I think that the threat is very real to everyone who is not part of the balance of power (which includes whites, indians, coloureds and any black tribes not in power). For those who doubt truth in Siener&#039;s visions, just go look back in SA&#039;s history and read parts of the book containing Sieners visions and you will see that many of the things happened just as he said (Koos De La Rey&#039; s assasination just as an example). Just as with Nostradamus before him, Siener saw the future. I just hope that people will not ingnore his warnings like they did Nostradamus.

Zuma: I&#039;m sorry to all the Zuma supporters out there, but I neither like nor trust Zuma and don&#039;t think he will make a particularlly good addition to SA in her current state, but that&#039;s just me. Zuma is notoriously pro-Zulu culture (as he should be) and just as notoriously anti-white and  (and I don&#039;t care what anyone says) Xhosa (which is also only natural as the xhosa and zulu tribes have been bitter enemies since time in memorium). Therefore I don&#039;t think it a particularly good thing to be either under his governance. 

However, to be fair (since he is not actually president yet), he may well be a good Lord Protector of SA and her children, but then he may be worse than Mugabe, Amin, Hitler, Mousalini, Stalin and the rest combined. Only time will tell. (I realise it might be an overexaggeration, but I am a realist (albeit a fair one) and I refuse to labour under the cosy comfertable delusion that blanket&#039;s our country- I don&#039;t care who says what but things are NOT hunky-dory as some would have us believe). 

I&#039;m not a prophet of doom. I&#039;m  not saying these things because I want to stir up trouble, but there is a storm brewing and it does not bode well. I am a young, WHITE South African and I don&#039;t care what the African nationalists say, but the colour of your skin has absolutely NOTHING to do with being an AFRICAN!!!! I&#039;m as much an African as Thabo, Zuma, Mandela or any of you!!! My ancestory has nothing to do with it!!! I was born on THIS continent, not in Europe!!! That makes me an African and I am proud to be called so. I am proud to live in such a beautiful country and to be able to call it the place of my birth. I am proud of my country&#039;s history on all fronts and throughout the ages because every last one fought a good battle, and if the blacks aren&#039;t too busy feeling hard done by, they may remember that the BoereVolk went through much worse under British occupation. Yes Apartheid was bad, sad and inhumane, but we need to put it behinf us if we are ever truely to be free of it. There is an old Chinese proverb that states &#039;Don&#039;t look to the future for it hasn&#039;t happened yet, don&#039;t look to the past because it may destroy you, but look to today, for each is a gift- that&#039;s why we call it the present&#039;. I&#039;m not saying we mustn&#039;t try and learn from the past (ours&#039; and the worlds&#039;) but we must stop focusing all our efforts on it and blaming everything that goes wrong in our lives and our country because of it. We must take what we need from the past to shape what happens today to ensure a better future for everyone in this country!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to everyone who commented on the above blog- you all make relevant statements and are to a lesser or greater degree correct. Let me just add my sentiments.</p>
<p>Xenophobia- I don&#8217;t really understand this. People say that theu foreigners are a threat as they take jobs. Maybe this is true but I&#8217;ve had a lot to do with foreign Africans and many of them are actually highly skilled, trained and qualified individuals, comprising of doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers&#8230; (the list goes on) in their own countries, yet they are reduced to busting tables, being carguards or gardenboys. You must think how bad life is in their respective countries if they are contend to be a lowly carguard in SA when they are a doctor in say the DRC. Have some empathy for them as well. In their country their qualification means next to nothing when everyone (or the vast majority of the populace) are starving. I&#8217;m not condoning them taking our peoples jobs but if our own people don&#8217;t use the oppotunities available then it is only obvious that others will&#8230; Our people seem to forget that these same people who they now victimise protected their farthers, mothers , grandparents etc when they need to escape the Apartheid goverment. These people harboured our fugitives (maybe unwillingly and grudgingly in some cases but nonethe less they did) and this is how we repay them??!!! Talk about a knife in the back and a kick in the stomach when they&#8217;re down!!!</p>
<p>ANC: Unfortunately I have no great love of the ANC and I don&#8217;t think they are doing enough to keep this country on its feet. To be fair they got the country when it was in a political mess after apartheid and so on, but they have done very little (for the most part) to better it or keep their promises. Most of our people starve while our goverment and cabinet ministers stuff their pockets with cash, jet all over the world on tax-payers money (money which should go toward bettering our country for everyone) and turn a blind eye to blatant corruption! Doesn&#8217;t it just reek of  Zimbabwe to any of you???? I don&#8217;t know who would be better at governing this country, but if something isn&#8217;t done soon, our country will only fall into the same pit that has claimed the rest of Africa!!! SA has so much potential, we just don&#8217;t have anyone capable of  exploiting that potential in a positive way&#8230;</p>
<p>Madiba and the night of the long knives: Many of you can laugh at such a notion, but ethnic cleansing has happened many times before in many different cultures (Hitler, Amin, Mau Se Tung, Yugoslavia, Chaka, Rwanda&#8230;the list is endless). However, no matter what any of you say, those that say a night of the long knives is coming are probably right, although it may not just be aimed at only whites. As we have seen with xenophobia, our people seem unkindly disposed towards all who are different. It will be about a balance of power- whoever is not in power will have to fear for their lives. </p>
<p>However it has to be said that all the leaders in this country have (at least publically) great respect for Mandela and who wouldn&#8217;t have&#8230; Therefore they will not attempt anything of this calibre while there is still air left in his lungs and a beating heart in his chest. After his death it will be a different story. I&#8217;m not saying it will be instantaneous either, but it will be subtle at first before people start realising what has been happening. The ANC counsillor&#8217;s comment is not the first that I have heard or heard of and I think that the threat is very real to everyone who is not part of the balance of power (which includes whites, indians, coloureds and any black tribes not in power). For those who doubt truth in Siener&#8217;s visions, just go look back in SA&#8217;s history and read parts of the book containing Sieners visions and you will see that many of the things happened just as he said (Koos De La Rey&#8217; s assasination just as an example). Just as with Nostradamus before him, Siener saw the future. I just hope that people will not ingnore his warnings like they did Nostradamus.</p>
<p>Zuma: I&#8217;m sorry to all the Zuma supporters out there, but I neither like nor trust Zuma and don&#8217;t think he will make a particularlly good addition to SA in her current state, but that&#8217;s just me. Zuma is notoriously pro-Zulu culture (as he should be) and just as notoriously anti-white and  (and I don&#8217;t care what anyone says) Xhosa (which is also only natural as the xhosa and zulu tribes have been bitter enemies since time in memorium). Therefore I don&#8217;t think it a particularly good thing to be either under his governance. </p>
<p>However, to be fair (since he is not actually president yet), he may well be a good Lord Protector of SA and her children, but then he may be worse than Mugabe, Amin, Hitler, Mousalini, Stalin and the rest combined. Only time will tell. (I realise it might be an overexaggeration, but I am a realist (albeit a fair one) and I refuse to labour under the cosy comfertable delusion that blanket&#8217;s our country- I don&#8217;t care who says what but things are NOT hunky-dory as some would have us believe). </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a prophet of doom. I&#8217;m  not saying these things because I want to stir up trouble, but there is a storm brewing and it does not bode well. I am a young, WHITE South African and I don&#8217;t care what the African nationalists say, but the colour of your skin has absolutely NOTHING to do with being an AFRICAN!!!! I&#8217;m as much an African as Thabo, Zuma, Mandela or any of you!!! My ancestory has nothing to do with it!!! I was born on THIS continent, not in Europe!!! That makes me an African and I am proud to be called so. I am proud to live in such a beautiful country and to be able to call it the place of my birth. I am proud of my country&#8217;s history on all fronts and throughout the ages because every last one fought a good battle, and if the blacks aren&#8217;t too busy feeling hard done by, they may remember that the BoereVolk went through much worse under British occupation. Yes Apartheid was bad, sad and inhumane, but we need to put it behinf us if we are ever truely to be free of it. There is an old Chinese proverb that states &#8216;Don&#8217;t look to the future for it hasn&#8217;t happened yet, don&#8217;t look to the past because it may destroy you, but look to today, for each is a gift- that&#8217;s why we call it the present&#8217;. I&#8217;m not saying we mustn&#8217;t try and learn from the past (ours&#8217; and the worlds&#8217;) but we must stop focusing all our efforts on it and blaming everything that goes wrong in our lives and our country because of it. We must take what we need from the past to shape what happens today to ensure a better future for everyone in this country!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mqo</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1937</link>
		<dc:creator>Mqo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 07:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1937</guid>
		<description>Wessel,

Your the first article was AWERSOME!

Siya
In relation to you question of &quot;who will be the next enemy of choice&quot;, you forgot to include Indians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wessel,</p>
<p>Your the first article was AWERSOME!</p>
<p>Siya<br />
In relation to you question of &#8220;who will be the next enemy of choice&#8221;, you forgot to include Indians.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1929</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 15:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1929</guid>
		<description>Z, thanks for the response. I have not read the particular post on Thoughtleader and therefore did not know where your problem arose from. Now it is clear and I get your point. It cannot really be determined exactly what the author meant with a &#039;purge transient&#039; that might follow the passing of Madiba (unless of course, according to the intro to the particular paragraph, the xenophobia between and against fellow black Africans is timeously eradicated). However, it would appear that he meant that a short period of &#039;ethnic cleansing&#039; (in the context of the article, &#039;black-on-black ethnic violence&#039; to get rid of the &#039;foreigners&#039;) might follow Mandela&#039;s death, unless work is now made of the hatred, fears and distrust between fellow black Africans. Why author feelt like that at the time the article was written (or might still feel so), is open to speculation, but it would appear that, like the Suidlanders&#039; urban leged would have it, Mandela is regarded as an icon (and rightly so) amongst all black (and many white) Africans; that he has always been (and still is) a very charismatic and well respected leader, with particular skills in calming people during times of hatred and shock (e.g., see his leadership following the Chris Hani assasination when FW de Klerk, then still President, failed to evidence same). A person that could in difficult times join different people together in unity - a &#039;rainbow nation&#039; (to borrow from his Eminence Desmond Tutu).  As a sign of respect towards him, therefore, one would not expect wholsesale ethnic cleansing to take place during his lifetime, but when he passes, so the author of the article opines, ethnic violence might (albeit short-lived) erupt and disgrace SA in the eyes of the internaional community. I agree that this is a very worrying feature of the article, and one would expect the author to clarify what was meant when confronted with a query like yours. Otherwise everyone will only be able to speculate on what was meant, where the idea originated from, etc. In any event, like Thabo Mbeki said on TV last night, SA has already been shamed by the recent spate of events, and they can already be regarded as incidents of ethnic cleansing (&#039;purge transient&#039; - if you wish) that is taking place - during the life of Madiba already - andtherefore the opinion to an extent becomes irrelevant in the current time. It would however be interesting to hear what other &#039;black&#039; Africans have to say on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z, thanks for the response. I have not read the particular post on Thoughtleader and therefore did not know where your problem arose from. Now it is clear and I get your point. It cannot really be determined exactly what the author meant with a &#8216;purge transient&#8217; that might follow the passing of Madiba (unless of course, according to the intro to the particular paragraph, the xenophobia between and against fellow black Africans is timeously eradicated). However, it would appear that he meant that a short period of &#8216;ethnic cleansing&#8217; (in the context of the article, &#8216;black-on-black ethnic violence&#8217; to get rid of the &#8216;foreigners&#8217;) might follow Mandela&#8217;s death, unless work is now made of the hatred, fears and distrust between fellow black Africans. Why author feelt like that at the time the article was written (or might still feel so), is open to speculation, but it would appear that, like the Suidlanders&#8217; urban leged would have it, Mandela is regarded as an icon (and rightly so) amongst all black (and many white) Africans; that he has always been (and still is) a very charismatic and well respected leader, with particular skills in calming people during times of hatred and shock (e.g., see his leadership following the Chris Hani assasination when FW de Klerk, then still President, failed to evidence same). A person that could in difficult times join different people together in unity &#8211; a &#8216;rainbow nation&#8217; (to borrow from his Eminence Desmond Tutu).  As a sign of respect towards him, therefore, one would not expect wholsesale ethnic cleansing to take place during his lifetime, but when he passes, so the author of the article opines, ethnic violence might (albeit short-lived) erupt and disgrace SA in the eyes of the internaional community. I agree that this is a very worrying feature of the article, and one would expect the author to clarify what was meant when confronted with a query like yours. Otherwise everyone will only be able to speculate on what was meant, where the idea originated from, etc. In any event, like Thabo Mbeki said on TV last night, SA has already been shamed by the recent spate of events, and they can already be regarded as incidents of ethnic cleansing (&#8216;purge transient&#8217; &#8211; if you wish) that is taking place &#8211; during the life of Madiba already &#8211; andtherefore the opinion to an extent becomes irrelevant in the current time. It would however be interesting to hear what other &#8216;black&#8217; Africans have to say on this.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1927</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 13:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1927</guid>
		<description>Anonymouse

I am familiar with the rumour and Siener etc. I posted stuff in this regard on &quot;Xenophobia excused or explained?&quot; which I quote below.

I am especially interested in what our black brothers can contribute in this regard, since here is two incidents of black people bring it up. One with killing whites, the other with Xenophobia. Were it not for these, I would hardly have given a moment&#039;s notice to the right wing conspiracy theorists.

Xenophobia excused or explained?: 
Comment:  z  // May 18, 2008 at 8:56 pm  

&quot;5. There is a further issue I would like to bring up in this context, since I don’t know where to bring this up, and it is related.

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/

This article is also about this issue. But one point I found very strange and have gotten no response from the author. I was hoping to get some perspective especially from my African brothers/sisters on this blog.

“South Africans need to understand that black African foreigners are not to be feared, treated as sub–human or purged. Failing that, I feel on the passing of Tatu Mandela we may experience a purge transient, which would have the world disgusted and may permanently scar us.”

What is the significance of Mandela’s passing? What is the logic behind it? (I only have some guesses) And how prevalent is it? Why would Mandela’s passing make the plight of foreigners worse? Where does it come from?

In 1997 there was this infamous incident:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&amp;click_id=13&amp;art_id=arch63833be7ee312f02f

“Cape Town An ANC councillor, caught driving down the wrong way on the N1, allegedly threatened arresting officers with the remark: “When Mandela dies we will kill you whites like flies.”

Mzukisi Gaba, an executive committee member with the Cape metropolitan council, was arrested at 2.50am yesterday near the Koeberg interchange. ”

Of course some in the Afrikaner community have been frenzied about this, with lots of rumours.

I just found it very surprising that the author of that article brought it up in this context.

Of course if that does happen then the world will suddenly sit up and take notice and call for all kinds of things to happen. The world seems desensitized to so called black-on-black violence.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymouse</p>
<p>I am familiar with the rumour and Siener etc. I posted stuff in this regard on &#8220;Xenophobia excused or explained?&#8221; which I quote below.</p>
<p>I am especially interested in what our black brothers can contribute in this regard, since here is two incidents of black people bring it up. One with killing whites, the other with Xenophobia. Were it not for these, I would hardly have given a moment&#8217;s notice to the right wing conspiracy theorists.</p>
<p>Xenophobia excused or explained?:<br />
Comment:  z  // May 18, 2008 at 8:56 pm  </p>
<p>&#8220;5. There is a further issue I would like to bring up in this context, since I don’t know where to bring this up, and it is related.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/mandelarhodesscholars/2008/05/15/on-makwerekwere/</a></p>
<p>This article is also about this issue. But one point I found very strange and have gotten no response from the author. I was hoping to get some perspective especially from my African brothers/sisters on this blog.</p>
<p>“South Africans need to understand that black African foreigners are not to be feared, treated as sub–human or purged. Failing that, I feel on the passing of Tatu Mandela we may experience a purge transient, which would have the world disgusted and may permanently scar us.”</p>
<p>What is the significance of Mandela’s passing? What is the logic behind it? (I only have some guesses) And how prevalent is it? Why would Mandela’s passing make the plight of foreigners worse? Where does it come from?</p>
<p>In 1997 there was this infamous incident:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=arch63833be7ee312f02f" rel="nofollow">http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&#038;click_id=13&#038;art_id=arch63833be7ee312f02f</a></p>
<p>“Cape Town An ANC councillor, caught driving down the wrong way on the N1, allegedly threatened arresting officers with the remark: “When Mandela dies we will kill you whites like flies.”</p>
<p>Mzukisi Gaba, an executive committee member with the Cape metropolitan council, was arrested at 2.50am yesterday near the Koeberg interchange. ”</p>
<p>Of course some in the Afrikaner community have been frenzied about this, with lots of rumours.</p>
<p>I just found it very surprising that the author of that article brought it up in this context.</p>
<p>Of course if that does happen then the world will suddenly sit up and take notice and call for all kinds of things to happen. The world seems desensitized to so called black-on-black violence.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1926</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 12:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1926</guid>
		<description>Z, &#039;5. &quot;When Mandela dies&quot;:&#039; - I am not sure where you read (heard) about this, but it reportedly forms an integral part of an ancient  &#039;prophesy&#039; by one Siener van Rensburg that has been circulated among Afrikaners in an e-mail emanating from a Rightist group that calls themselves &quot;Die Suidlanders&quot;.  It concerns a conspiracy theory that, because Mandela has forgiven and vowed white Afrikaners his protection as long as he lives, that promise will come to an end the day that he dies. According to the theory, which is really laughable, a &#039;Night of the long knives&#039; (&#039;Nag van die Lang Messe&#039;) will follow Madiba&#039;s death, where black people would unite in a Mau-Mau style armed with pangas or machetes, with which all whites will then be slaughtered. The e-mail seeks to forewarn white Afrikaners of this plot, which has reportedly been concluded in Moskow at some unknown time, so that they can arm themsleves with arms and basic foodstuffs etc so that they can withstand the onslaught. The &#039;Suidlnaders&#039; is part of a group that call themselves the &#039;Israel Vision&#039;, in terms of which the members believe that they (the white Afrikaner) is one of the twelve tribes of Israel and that they can therefore reckon on the protection of God, also to make them strong in war to overcome the &#039;enemy&#039; (&#039;blacks&#039;). The so-called &#039;Boeremag&#039; also contains traces of this far-fetched beliefs held by these organizations. My view, however, is that only really &#039;dumb&#039; and &#039;backward&#039; Afrikaners are being misled by this trash, which probably caught flame again in the light of the recent xeno-hatred attacks, and should not really be given any more thought. I think that rumours of this kind have also been thrown aroud under the non-white foreigners that have fallen ictim of the latest spate of attacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Z, &#8217;5. &#8220;When Mandela dies&#8221;:&#8217; &#8211; I am not sure where you read (heard) about this, but it reportedly forms an integral part of an ancient  &#8216;prophesy&#8217; by one Siener van Rensburg that has been circulated among Afrikaners in an e-mail emanating from a Rightist group that calls themselves &#8220;Die Suidlanders&#8221;.  It concerns a conspiracy theory that, because Mandela has forgiven and vowed white Afrikaners his protection as long as he lives, that promise will come to an end the day that he dies. According to the theory, which is really laughable, a &#8216;Night of the long knives&#8217; (&#8216;Nag van die Lang Messe&#8217;) will follow Madiba&#8217;s death, where black people would unite in a Mau-Mau style armed with pangas or machetes, with which all whites will then be slaughtered. The e-mail seeks to forewarn white Afrikaners of this plot, which has reportedly been concluded in Moskow at some unknown time, so that they can arm themsleves with arms and basic foodstuffs etc so that they can withstand the onslaught. The &#8216;Suidlnaders&#8217; is part of a group that call themselves the &#8216;Israel Vision&#8217;, in terms of which the members believe that they (the white Afrikaner) is one of the twelve tribes of Israel and that they can therefore reckon on the protection of God, also to make them strong in war to overcome the &#8216;enemy&#8217; (&#8216;blacks&#8217;). The so-called &#8216;Boeremag&#8217; also contains traces of this far-fetched beliefs held by these organizations. My view, however, is that only really &#8216;dumb&#8217; and &#8216;backward&#8217; Afrikaners are being misled by this trash, which probably caught flame again in the light of the recent xeno-hatred attacks, and should not really be given any more thought. I think that rumours of this kind have also been thrown aroud under the non-white foreigners that have fallen ictim of the latest spate of attacks.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 11:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>Cape Town at last has a page on their website for relief work:

http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/HOWTOASSISTTHEVICTIMSOFXENOPHOBICVIOLENCEINCAPETOWN.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cape Town at last has a page on their website for relief work:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/HOWTOASSISTTHEVICTIMSOFXENOPHOBICVIOLENCEINCAPETOWN.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/HOWTOASSISTTHEVICTIMSOFXENOPHOBICVIOLENCEINCAPETOWN.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1924</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 11:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1924</guid>
		<description>We have a relief center two km&#039;s from where we stay. One of the guys there, a Burundian was saying that some policemen also told them to go back to their country. After all the police officers also come from communities, so they will also be reflective of societal views.

Just sad when there is no trust relationship with our police service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a relief center two km&#8217;s from where we stay. One of the guys there, a Burundian was saying that some policemen also told them to go back to their country. After all the police officers also come from communities, so they will also be reflective of societal views.</p>
<p>Just sad when there is no trust relationship with our police service.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1922</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 08:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1922</guid>
		<description>Couple of points:

1. Sensationalism:
I agree with Khosi that it is sensationalist to say the government is not functioning. You can talk of levels of efficiency, but there is no need to overstate. You can say home affairs is in a dire situation, with corruption rife and lots of backlogs, but you are still able to get a passport, no?

2. The balanced article from the mail and guardian:
Though he makes many good points in the article, he does oversimplify the causitive factors. He starts with: &quot;Africans on the continent have never liked one another&quot;

Note the &quot;never&quot;. But then the only causitive factor mentioned is the scramble for Africa, kind of contradicting his &quot;never&quot;. Though few could argue against the fact that it has been a major contributing factor, it is rather simplistic. All over the world similar sentiments are found to differing degrees and it wasn&#039;t all caused by colonialism. Some rhetoric in this regard seems to imply that Africa was one big happy family before the colonials came (in terms of inter tribal relations). My statement might seem overstated, but it is the impression created by some. There were many conflicts in Africa, just as the rest of the world.

&quot;internalised the differences the Europeans foisted on them&quot;
What does that mean? How do you go about proving or disproving such a statement? It is one of those which have the ring of truth, but you can&#039;t pin it down to really see if it is indeed so.

&quot;a free Africa remains acutely conscious of the boundaries that the colonial powers drew. Across the continent and, long after independence, these differences are replicated.&quot;

This is also an oversimplification. It implies that differences would be nationalist in origin or tribalist as per tribal &quot;preferences&quot; by the colonials (advancing one tribe ahead of another). 

I have a current example to disprove this assertion: Though our boundaries are such that Shangaans, are in SA and Mozambique, it did not hinder Xenophobes from telling all Shangaans to go. It wasn&#039;t the colonial boundary motivating it, but indeed the tribal/cultural sentiments. It was also not an example of a certain tribe who was more privileged by colonial powers as with the Hutu/Tutsi situation in Rwanda. 

I did find it a refreshingly different read, but wouldn&#039;t give it any awards for scholarship.

2. Cosatu, SACP:
In contrast to Wessel, Cosatu and the SACP are worrying me. They are speaking up on many of the &quot;right&quot; issues, but they do not let an opportunity go by to blame it on the government&#039;s policies. 

They rally against Xenophobia, but focus on blaming government policies (compare with mine worker&#039;s union, focusing on protection of foreigners). This can easily be construed as electioneering. It seemed like they were more focused on winning the people over to &quot;their&quot; side than really addressing the crisis. 

I don&#039;t know what the current status of Cosatu&#039;s request for NEC representation is, but in a mail and guardian article Gwede Mantashe was warning Cosatu that they will not get the requested representation and saying they will stick to current inflation targeting, budget surpluses, etc. 

Don&#039;t discount the possibility of them going at it on their own in the next elections. They have been flexing their muscles a lot the last few months and if they don&#039;t feel they have enough power to change economic policies, they might just go on their own. Whatever your view on capitalism/socialism, there are many an example of failed socialist states in Africa.

3. Mbeki step down:
One thing is for sure, if Mbeki were to step down now and even call elections as some request, we would be an a more dire situation. We don&#039;t need him to step down, but to step up. But if neither happens, step down is the worst option in this crisis, as I see things now.

4. Land distribution:
Siya, just a note regarding the land distribution. I have a friend working as an agricultural consultant and he is currently working with one of the few successful empowerment projects (outperforming commercial farmers). There is a lot more to this than unwilling farmers and expensive farms. There are numerous farms being advertised at good prices but not bought. A recent study indicated government administration failure as more likely cause for the lack of progress in distribution. It indicated that since 2004, farm prices have gone up by just over 1% per year. Compare that to other property prices! 


5. &quot;When Mandela dies&quot;: 
I still have no clue about that one. Any ideas where this comes from and how widely spread it is? 


ps. Got spare cash. Drop some nappies, baby food, bottles etc at your nearest refugee center (or phone), ask the police where but rather drop it off at the center itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couple of points:</p>
<p>1. Sensationalism:<br />
I agree with Khosi that it is sensationalist to say the government is not functioning. You can talk of levels of efficiency, but there is no need to overstate. You can say home affairs is in a dire situation, with corruption rife and lots of backlogs, but you are still able to get a passport, no?</p>
<p>2. The balanced article from the mail and guardian:<br />
Though he makes many good points in the article, he does oversimplify the causitive factors. He starts with: &#8220;Africans on the continent have never liked one another&#8221;</p>
<p>Note the &#8220;never&#8221;. But then the only causitive factor mentioned is the scramble for Africa, kind of contradicting his &#8220;never&#8221;. Though few could argue against the fact that it has been a major contributing factor, it is rather simplistic. All over the world similar sentiments are found to differing degrees and it wasn&#8217;t all caused by colonialism. Some rhetoric in this regard seems to imply that Africa was one big happy family before the colonials came (in terms of inter tribal relations). My statement might seem overstated, but it is the impression created by some. There were many conflicts in Africa, just as the rest of the world.</p>
<p>&#8220;internalised the differences the Europeans foisted on them&#8221;<br />
What does that mean? How do you go about proving or disproving such a statement? It is one of those which have the ring of truth, but you can&#8217;t pin it down to really see if it is indeed so.</p>
<p>&#8220;a free Africa remains acutely conscious of the boundaries that the colonial powers drew. Across the continent and, long after independence, these differences are replicated.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is also an oversimplification. It implies that differences would be nationalist in origin or tribalist as per tribal &#8220;preferences&#8221; by the colonials (advancing one tribe ahead of another). </p>
<p>I have a current example to disprove this assertion: Though our boundaries are such that Shangaans, are in SA and Mozambique, it did not hinder Xenophobes from telling all Shangaans to go. It wasn&#8217;t the colonial boundary motivating it, but indeed the tribal/cultural sentiments. It was also not an example of a certain tribe who was more privileged by colonial powers as with the Hutu/Tutsi situation in Rwanda. </p>
<p>I did find it a refreshingly different read, but wouldn&#8217;t give it any awards for scholarship.</p>
<p>2. Cosatu, SACP:<br />
In contrast to Wessel, Cosatu and the SACP are worrying me. They are speaking up on many of the &#8220;right&#8221; issues, but they do not let an opportunity go by to blame it on the government&#8217;s policies. </p>
<p>They rally against Xenophobia, but focus on blaming government policies (compare with mine worker&#8217;s union, focusing on protection of foreigners). This can easily be construed as electioneering. It seemed like they were more focused on winning the people over to &#8220;their&#8221; side than really addressing the crisis. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what the current status of Cosatu&#8217;s request for NEC representation is, but in a mail and guardian article Gwede Mantashe was warning Cosatu that they will not get the requested representation and saying they will stick to current inflation targeting, budget surpluses, etc. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t discount the possibility of them going at it on their own in the next elections. They have been flexing their muscles a lot the last few months and if they don&#8217;t feel they have enough power to change economic policies, they might just go on their own. Whatever your view on capitalism/socialism, there are many an example of failed socialist states in Africa.</p>
<p>3. Mbeki step down:<br />
One thing is for sure, if Mbeki were to step down now and even call elections as some request, we would be an a more dire situation. We don&#8217;t need him to step down, but to step up. But if neither happens, step down is the worst option in this crisis, as I see things now.</p>
<p>4. Land distribution:<br />
Siya, just a note regarding the land distribution. I have a friend working as an agricultural consultant and he is currently working with one of the few successful empowerment projects (outperforming commercial farmers). There is a lot more to this than unwilling farmers and expensive farms. There are numerous farms being advertised at good prices but not bought. A recent study indicated government administration failure as more likely cause for the lack of progress in distribution. It indicated that since 2004, farm prices have gone up by just over 1% per year. Compare that to other property prices! </p>
<p>5. &#8220;When Mandela dies&#8221;:<br />
I still have no clue about that one. Any ideas where this comes from and how widely spread it is? </p>
<p>ps. Got spare cash. Drop some nappies, baby food, bottles etc at your nearest refugee center (or phone), ask the police where but rather drop it off at the center itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1921</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 06:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1921</guid>
		<description>Khosi, it would only amount to a &#039;death-wish&#039; if one wishes that the party &#039;dies&#039; or loses control alltogether. That is not what I am wishing for. Just for stronger control of the party (and the government, which is de facto only the ruling party in another guise) in the common good of the people. And, as far as I am concerned, I do not see the DA, as it is currently structured, in such a position. On the other hand, a stronger opposition should be based on non-racist, non-sexist, and all the other constitutional values based on equality and equity, which the ANC, as it is currently structured, is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Khosi, it would only amount to a &#8216;death-wish&#8217; if one wishes that the party &#8216;dies&#8217; or loses control alltogether. That is not what I am wishing for. Just for stronger control of the party (and the government, which is de facto only the ruling party in another guise) in the common good of the people. And, as far as I am concerned, I do not see the DA, as it is currently structured, in such a position. On the other hand, a stronger opposition should be based on non-racist, non-sexist, and all the other constitutional values based on equality and equity, which the ANC, as it is currently structured, is not.</p>
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		<title>By: khosi</title>
		<link>http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/xenophobic-violence-why-we-still-need-anc/#comment-1919</link>
		<dc:creator>khosi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 06:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://constitutionallyspeaking.co.za/?p=558#comment-1919</guid>
		<description>I hear people talking about the split in the ANC. I also think such a split, peacefully executed, would be good as it would off load the burden of struggle credentials from who ever will be in gorvenment. But somehow the thought just feels wrong. Its like wishing for a speedy death of  a parent in a comma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear people talking about the split in the ANC. I also think such a split, peacefully executed, would be good as it would off load the burden of struggle credentials from who ever will be in gorvenment. But somehow the thought just feels wrong. Its like wishing for a speedy death of  a parent in a comma.</p>
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