Comments on: Zimbabwe: Why Mbeki is all carrot and no stick

By: AliBama

AliBama — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:44:40 +0000

In a previous comment to this thread, khosi says:
“Should Africans forget the past 400 years and focus squarly in the past 8.”
No, we need to consider the million/s of years since ‘man’ split from
apes in evolution, and accept that negroids, caucasoids & mongaloids have
different genes, which significantly effects their mental attributes.
BTW Bullard is yanking your chain. What’s his blog-adrs ?
——-
Anonymouse says:
“Mugabe’s men slaughtered 20,000 civilians in Matabeleland.
This is the equivalent of a Sharpeville massacre every day for
over nine months.”
Wow ! I appreciate such comparative figures.
IMO ‘Sharpville is a prime example of false history’ which justifies a thread
of it’s own.
——
Newsgroups: soc.culture.zimbabwe,za.politics
Subject: EU has learned since 70′s & thinks that Africa can too

Apparently the zimbabwe internet-news-group is deliberately being
spam-flooded. Apparently from China.
One is reminded of exposures some years ago, of Mugabe employing a well
known Canadian/Israeli professional information manipulator, to fabricate
evidence of treason against Morgan T. : Mugabe’s opponent.

It was interesting for me to hear on radio-Sweden how the Swedish-leftists
now admit that they allowed themselves to be deceived into praising the
Pol Pot regime, after their visit to Cambodia in the 70s.

Perhaps this influences their more realistic approach to Zimbabwe now ?

Of course the EU’s stance of not giving resources to the Mugabe looting
gang is correct. One wonders if the SADC supporters of Mugabe realise
the implications to the wider world, or if they just don’t care.
Like they just didn’t care about the HIV warnings which they got 25
years ago ?

By: MK

MK — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:43:18 +0000

Thank you for your response Prof., I am quite thrilled to receive a reply especially in light of the fact that this post was originally put up some time ago. For the record, I do agree that it would be better to focus on the present and the future. The silence from South Africa’s side fills me with a sense of shame as a human being and as a South African.

By: Pierre De Vos

Pierre De Vos — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:09:34 +0000

MK, thank you for your thoughtful post. On reflection you might have a point and I might have gotten carried away in damning all who had voted for President Mbeki. Come to think of it, I once also voted for Mbeki so that makes me also complicit in this saga if I followed my own logic. Maybe it would be better and more helpful to focus on the present and the future and to ask what can South Africa do and why is not not doing more to ensure that the will of the people of Zimbabwe are respected. President Mbeki and his supporters argue they are doing everything they can and that what human rights supporters want will only backfire, while some of us think more pressure can be placed on Mugabe to isolate him in the region and to make him and his generals realise that if they stay in power despite being voted out, their own lives will become more miserable.

By: MK

MK — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:01:38 +0000

I don’t usually leave comments on this site but I felt compelled to say something. Mr van Rensburg, I found your mail, particularly on ‘things that you miss’, to be embittered, speculative, misguided and racially offensive. I found your words and generalized judgments to be quite unfortunate and I sincerely hope that at some stage you find it in yourself to become a better, less racially discriminatory person.

Professor de Vos, I am a fan of yours and enjoy your writing generally. I was disappointed and confused as to why those who voted for Mbeki are complicit in gross human rights abuses in Zimbabwe. Surely you didn’t mean what you said. If you did, then how far back should the complicity go? Should those who voted for Mandela be complicit in the abuses because they allowed the ANC to return to power? Should the majority of white people also be complicit because they allowed black people to vote through the referendum? Should those whites that didn’t take part in the revolution of South Africa also be complicit for negligently contributing to a situation (by omission) where Mr Mbeki ended up in a position in which he felt that he owed Mugabe some kind of tacit support for his help in liberating this country? I’m afraid it seems quite unfair to expect those people who voted for Mbeki to have the kind of clairvoyancy that you appear to have implicitly expected of them. Perhaps if the course of action that was chosen had been decided upon democratically then those members of the public would be more blameworthy.

I say all of this with the greatest respect. This is the first article of yours that I have read that I have found disappointing, and even then only in respect of the later parts. I hope that you respond.

By: Anonymouse

Anonymouse — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:54:03 +0000

Very sarcastic Michael – but good!

By: Michael Osborne

Michael Osborne — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:35:27 +0000

Khosi, of course, is right. The globalised world is a big, busy, complicated place. Many of the old certainties have disappeared.

Fortunately, there remain two rules that, although not absolutely foolproof, offer reliable guidance in most situations:

1. Anything white people in general favour is BAD.

2. Anything the U.S. favours is VERY BAD.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 07:05:48 +0000

Khosi – From you quote in the Mandarin language, it appears that your command of that language is quite superior. Would you care to translate for us Chinese illiterates? And, … don’t back off just because the fallacy of your argument has been pointed out?

By: khosi

khosi — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:59:56 +0000

I have stated my case on this post, and I am done. As the Chinese would say, huí tóu jiàn 。.

By: Mqo

Mqo — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:22:50 +0000

Khosi
In relation to the statement that ‘we..should move away from having a view and then arguing without accepting detours from that view or tentatively listening to other views’, maybe that should be the statement that you should be saying instead, to the distorted African ideology that is prevalent not only among (unfortunately) ordinary peoples of Africa, but also, it seems, to the African intellectuals such as your self. I can tell you personally, that I was at school in Zimbabwe when the land seizers’ occurred and believe me not for one second was it about gaining back ‘what was lost’ during colonisation but a vendetta to seize and maintain power at all costs. The fact that dear Bob is fighting against re-colonisation is a rhetoric that is all but similar to the one advocated for by the US to invade Iraqi. Like those who enthusially embraced and advocated for the war, similar are those like you, who believe that Mugabe is fighting against re-colonisation. No Khosi, I refuse to accept such a submission and believe me you would, if your saw a man been killed for having a different opinion and then for Mbeki to believe that they is no crisis, and then people like YOU to accept the lie been meted out by the government propaganda machine, is in all essence insensitive if not disgusting. While it is important that we debate such issues what is of importance are the lives of individuals. If the West are the only ones who seem to care, then to hell with Africa!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:34:28 +0000

Khosi – curious that it is now from China that Bob Mugabe so dearly wants to import arms (to oppress Zimbabwean africans, not to defend Zim’s borders or sovereignty). Like that Chinese curse wishes of us – we are living in interesting times indeed.