Although I am not making any predictions, I am not so sure the new Congress of the People (Cope) will be as successful at the polls next year as some of its leaders are suggesting. To start a new party is hard work. One needs to build a presence on the ground by establishing local and regional structures and must give people a reason to vote for your party. Policies and programmes must be devised and sold to the electorate and leaders must overcome deeply entrenched emotional ties to existing parties.
But if Mr Jacob Zuma is the Presidential candidate for the ANC, the new party might do quite well among middle class voters who might not want to vote for Mr. Umshini Wam. It is clear that much of the media has soured on Mr Zuma, much like the mainstream media soured on George W Bush after 2004. Exhibit A here is an article in The Times about Mr. Zuma’s weekend election trip to the Western Cape.
Zuma promised that food prices would come down, and that salaries for teachers, health sector staff and the police would go up. He promised jobs in rural areas. “There must be no more people moving from rural areas to urban areas to find jobs. We must take jobs to those areas. That’s why you must vote for the ANC. We will open opportunities in Eastern Cape and other areas,” said Zuma.
Turning to crime, he quipped: “When I think about crime, I think about going out now to look for the criminals.” But the big bang was at the Langa stadium, where the heat didn’t deter a crowd of almost 10000.
Some grew bored halfway into Zuma’s speech and demanded a tune. Hecklers shouted: “Sing!” Of course, Zuma didn’t fail to oblige, singing his infamous Umshini wam.
This happened repeatedly and it was enough to tempt one to reach for a machine gun and put an end to the inappropriate song. But the Langa crowd, some of the poorest voters in the country, wanted the joker and entertainer. That, and tough talk on crime and calls for supporters not to leave the ANC like the other “snakes”.
The tone of this article is, at best, mocking. If I was an ANC NWC member I would be fuming about the obvious tone of ridicule permeating the article. No wonder Jessie Duarte and Gwede Mantashe met with SABC executives to complain about the way in which His Masters Voice depicts the leader of the ANC. All that dancing and singing Umshini Wam does not really inspire respect and confidence in the potential leader of South Africa, so they wanted the SABC to stop showing what really happened at Zuma rallies and stick to the ANC script.
But some SABC journalists obviously also do not have much respect for the dancing politicians with the habit of uttering scary if vague platitudes.
If this in any way reflects how middle class South Africans feel about Zuma, the ANC might get a bit of a shock at the election next year. But who knows what will happen? And maybe the SABC will come through for the ANC and tone down its (recently more) honest and fair coverage of our next President. Only time will tell.
Ah, it’s all becoming so much clearer now. The ANC as we knew it no longer exists; it has been taken over by Cosatu and the SACP, presided over by Gwede Mantashe. They are busy hatching plans for their long dreamt-off socialist paradise. Finally, their time has come! Guided by a carefully chosen group of leftie economists, they have decided on abolishing inflation targeting, prescribed investments in workers’ pension funds, and even more “worker-friendly” labour policies. The oh-so-polite Mr. Motlanthe will never be heard of again after the elections. “President Zuma” will be cast in the role of court jester, singing and dancing for the masses to keep them happy and distracted. Let’s not worry any longer about Zuma’s peculiar utterances. Whatever he says is already a matter of supreme indifference to our future leaders.
Pierre
I had a two hour long meeting at Protea Midrand Hotel today, Terror was there and there was a constant stream of people coming to see him of which many traditional leaders and others, even Pickoli and coy! These guys are hard at work, dont be fooled by the media!
The Prof wrote: “…The tone of this article is, at best, mocking. If I was an ANC NWC member I would be fuming about the obvious tone of ridicule permeating the article. …”
What if this journalist’s report is an accurate representation of what transpired at those meetings? Especially that ‘… Some grew bored halfway into Zuma’s speech and demanded a tune. Hecklers shouted: “Sing!” Of course, Zuma didn’t fail to oblige, singing his infamous Umshini wam. This happened repeatedly and it was enough to tempt one to reach for a machine gun and put an end to the inappropriate song. But the Langa crowd, some of the poorest voters in the country, wanted the joker and entertainer. …’
If that is the case, then you can’t blame the journalist for Zuma’s buffoonery.
I just wish this is just some kind of a satire because if it is not, then the future of our kids is in jeopardy. With leaders and followers like that, who needs oppressors?
Tony in Virginia: Your hate for Zuma is beyond belief. I think you have a right to hate him because we are a free country. I beg you to be rational when you make comments; please read the whole article and you will realise that the author is inciting tribalism. He says “Xhosa women, dressed in traditional clothing and beads, danced for their party’s Zulu leader.” Is Zuma a Zulu leader, was Mbeki a Xhosa leader? Was Mandela the parties Xhosa leader. The author also tries to make Zuma look like a fool making readers who have tribalistic tendencies believe that their prejudices that “Zulus are stupid” seem true. Its one thing to hate someone but I will not support people who promote tribalism. In the Eastern Cape recently supporters of the new party say they will not be ruled by a Zulu. What kind of nonsense is that? Their leaders in meetings speak about “boys” referring to the fact that Zulus don’t go to the mountain for circumcision. Are we now saying the country cannot be ruled by other ethnic groups? Don’t fall for people who are dividing us for unknown motives. I know that you and the Prof will never like Zuma but don’t support tribalism. We don’t want a Burundi.
Thomas,
Which part of ‘what if’ did you not understand?
If it is true that Zuma (or anybody else for that matter) would interrupt his speech to sing “Umshini Wam’” at the behest of the crowd, then he is a buffoon.
Of course the racist undertone of the journalist is despicable, but that does not concern me so much as a future President of my country making an ass of himself.
I don’t hate Zuma. I hate buffoonery by my leader.
Thomas // Nov 13, 2008 at 8:35 am
Thomas, Zuma is either a fool or a cynical political operator (with little regard for his constituency). Both qualities make him unfit to govern this Republic! Rest assured, he will (as you wish) most likely be elected President of RSA; the rest of the citizens of this Republic (who see the absurdity of Zuma even being considered a contender for this high office) will do what all right thinking American have been forced to do since 2000, justify/explain/rationalize to all and sundry why South Africa remains exceptional in spite of the madness of his election.
Thank you Thomas
This American Tony in Virginia is becoming a nuisance who comments on articles he never read, how much of a buffoon can you be!
And Prof. the media has not just started to sour on Zuma, it has always detested him and the buffoons who read newspapers uncritically just follow suit and hate our next President.
I am glad that you people who think the middle class like myself wont vote Zuma will be shocked after we have massively voted for him, and I am glad that people in Langa township just told Zuma to stop trying to campaing as it is a fait accompli that they would vote for the ANC!
The Media and almost all analysts tried to fool the public from as late as 2006, pertaining to the Zuma ANC presidency-they lost! This time also the media(…and analysts like our beloved professor in this blog) with their attacks(…in fact, extreme hatred) for Zuma, they are unleashing the instinctive natural human reaction of the masses to rally around the one being attacked. Prof give yourself time to leave UWC and go meet the masses and see what causes this forever growing support for Zuma-your hatred for him! Sorry guys – yo’all who hate him so much(…though denying of course) I love you for making him be loved by the ordinary folks on the street (black and a suprisingly, increasing number of whites-come see in F.S when he s around)…Mistake yo’al make is to think the public would be so stupid and make-up its mind solely on vomits coming from the media and these hate-filled analysts!!!
Mdu
Blind faith can be a very dangerous thing, especially in the political arena. What is your criterion for a good leader(but be reasonable)?do you think Zuma meets the criterion of a good leader? Do you think for instance someone like Helen zille would be a better leader,if juxtaposed to Zuma, and if not, why not?I seriously doubt whether the ability to get people to chant makes one a good leader. Being charimatic gets the people excited, but after all the short term excitement has faded, a proper job still has to be done. If everybody were placed in a position where they had to before hand choose who they wanted to be their leader, and only after making this choice they would find out what ethnicity they would and what tribe they belong to(zula,xhosa,afrikaans,english ,whatever.) , would everyone still vote the same. One would be forced to be objective and be guided by logic. But that on the other hand is just another hypothesis.
What is it about Zuma and his followers that they are incapable of engaging in dialogue without hurling abuse at anyone who disagrees with them or questions them?
Zuma refuses to engage with the DA on it’s policies, but continues to make public statements to the effect that it has no policies. He refers to those who have left the ANC as snakes.
His supporters on this blog accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being “hate-filled” or “buffoons”.
Instead of actually putting forward rational and logical reasons as to why Zuma is the best person to lead this country, we are continually subjected empty rhetoric and ad hominem attacks.
That may very well be the reason why the “middle class” to whom Prof refers will not be voting for the ANC next year. Because, in the wake of Mbeki’s denialism, the ANC NEC’s appalling handling of Mbeki, the bad behaviour of Malema et al and the lack of tangible and consistent responses by the Zuma camp to real questions affecting this country, the ANC appear to be losing credibility as a party that can effectively run this country.
My personal belief, and I could be way off base here, is that many people may very well vote for COP, not because it has better policies than the ANC, but because there is finally a viable alternative to the ANC.
Spuy, Thomas and Mdu
The fact that you use the word “hate” so freely indicates that your arguments are not rational but emotional.
It is simply not rational to infer that if you criticise somebody and do not regard him as a fit and proper person to be president of our country that you hate him.
You guys are stifling healthy debate everytime you just blindly lable any critical comment as hatred.
Among 60 odd grade 10 and 11 children at an Eastern Cape school of which all were Xhosa speakers not one said they would vote for Zuma. Their reasons varied from him being uneducated, a rapist, a crook, or Zulu.
Smantha and Dang, dream on!
Why should the Honourable Zuma engage a minnow like Zille on debate thereby elevating her status to something tangible whereas she is negligible, Mbeki did the same thing to Leon who was trying to punch above his weight like Zille is trying to do now.
Dang you cant compare a leader of racist minority to an icon of our struggle, they are just incommensurable, let Zille et Shikota “fight back” our struggle’s gains and let the Honourable Zuma fight for the poor and downtrodden!
Why do you try to make Zille someone important by saying Zuma should debate with her, she should go and debate with Shikota, IFP, UDM AND OTHE MINNOWS!
Mdu // Nov 13, 2008 at 10:28 am
I am glad to read your contributin. You are correct in all your assertions Mdu and Pierre is wrong. Pierre fails to understand that the middle class are characterized by a tendency publicly displays airs of respectability while, in fact, mingling with the rats and mice for economic sustenance. The historical contempt of the aristocracy and the working classes of the bourgeoisie is a consequence of a realization of the average bourgeois’s quintessential hypocrisy. Own their own, the middle classes are incapable of defending their position and are reliant on expedient alliances with all manner of persons.
The above applies even more to the black bourgeoisie, who (unlike the middle classes of other nations) are beholden to both big business and government. They therefore have to be complicit in the mechanizations of those in power as well as big business (a big business which typically is wary of government regulation, therefore leading to irreconcilable contradictions of interest and/or principle). Faced with the choice between (1) a socially and morally repugnant contender (Zuma) who will (regardless of the black middle classes’ mechanizations) inevitably govern and the choice of (2) rejecting him (and what he represents) but weakening the socio-political forces underlying their material wealth (e.g. BEE, etc), they will choose the crass option of further material accumulation.
I attended the national convention in Sandton, and contrary to popular suggestion (and the “facts” peddled by “political analysts”) the majority of delegates were from the working class. Indeed, I was forced to the knees with humility when I met an 82 year old woman who had not once been on an escalator yet was willing to exert her last energies in a quest to attain a body politic reflective of the South African citizenry’s common decency. These are the true defenders of our constitutional democracy, the ordinary man and women of this Republic, who disregarded, ignored and patronized by the political commentators (most of who are middle class and guided by subjective vested interests).
If you look at the annals of the collaborators of apartheid, you will overwhelmingly see the middle class. If you look at the annals of the cadres against apartheid, you will see overwhelmingly the ordinary peoples of this Republic. The eradication of electoral hegemony of the ANC may not occur today, or tomorrow, but I am certain that when it occurs (with the concomitant rejuvenation of our system of governance) it will be through the mechanization of the working peoples of Republic who, in spite of their limited education, have a common decency and can see through the elaborate conceit of the middle classes. Therefore Mdu and your fellow compadores side with Zuma, I choose to side with the people of this Republic.
tATERA WHAT ARE YOU SAYING REALLY, OR SHOULD WE TAKE THIS AS A REFGLECTION ON YOU!
Mdu // Nov 13, 2008 at 11:48 am
tATERA WHAT ARE YOU SAYING REALLY, OR SHOULD WE TAKE THIS AS A REFGLECTION ON YOU!
It is the opinion of 60 odd school kids. Which part is unclear to you?
@ Mdu
“Why should the Honourable Zuma engage a minnow like Zille on debate thereby elevating her status to something tangible whereas she is negligible…”
“Why do you try to make Zille someone important by saying Zuma should debate with her…”
I refer to the two statements of yours above. My question to you Mdu, is why will Zuma not engage? What is it that he is afraid of?
Despite all your references to the “minnows”, Zille is the Leader of the Opposition and in many democracies around the world, leaders of political parties engage in public debates as a means to promote the policies and ideals of their parties. This is all part of democracy in action.
Tatera
That the odd children were Xhosa and that one of the reasons given for not willing to vote for him was that He is a Zulu, actually what are you trying to potray yourself as, a tribalist, such has no place in the ANC, and normal grade 11 and 12 wont vote!
Tatera // Nov 13, 2008 at 11:40 am
Among 60 odd grade 10 and 11 children at an Eastern Cape school of which all were Xhosa speakers not one said they would vote for Zuma. Their reasons varied from him being uneducated, a rapist, a crook, or Zulu.
Whats your point?
Mdu // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Re:
“That the odd children were Xhosa and that one of the reasons given for not willing to vote for him was that He is a Zulu, actually what are you trying to potray yourself as, a tribalist, such has no place in the ANC, and normal grade 11 and 12 wont vote!”
Grade 10 and 11’s are allowed to have an opinion in a democracy and will grow up to be voters. Some are already 18.
Thomas // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Re:
“Whats your point?”
Do I have to have a point? If you don’t like or understand the info ignore it.
Mdu
I am a Black South African.
I read these articles and you guys don’t read the responses. Your ad hominem attacks will never make Zuma a fit-to-govern-South-Africa leader. I may be a nuisance, but Zuma supplies the ammunition.
Of course we all know the real reason why Zuma won’t debate Zille. In fact Zuma does not want to debate anyone
• He refuses to debate Zille
• He refuses to debate Mbeki
• He wants to send Mantashe to debate on his behalf in the debate that is being organized by the Star (where other leaders of other parties have agreed to participate).
• He does not respond to messages addressed to him on the FriendsOfJZ site.
And this is a man who wants to be the President of the most important country in Africa.
If there is any nuisance, Mdu, it is the singing of “Umshin’Wam’” in a post Apartheid South Africa where ideas are needed instead of war songs.
After Zuma’s responses to questions by a pathetically understanding audience at the Council on Foreign Relations (here in these USA); nobody thought he answered any of their questions. I wonder if they will take him seriously again. Who would?
Vuyo: I admire you my Brother/sister. I for one feel that supporting the ANC also is being on the side of people of this Republic. I have known the ANC all my life and I tend to feel that it will be in heart for the rest of my life. As for the party you talk about I do not know what they can offer me but I know the personalities in the party and I know where they come from. I hope that South Africa will one day use its energies to debate real issues such as the high crime rate, illiteracy, joblessness, the deficit, interest rates, food shortages, global warming, teenage pregnancies etc. I haven’t heard any of the parties deal with these. Only the protection of the Freedom Charter and the constitution and the rule of law. Although theses things are important I hope they are not written in stone and I hope they will feed and protect our people from the challenges that face us.
Tatera
They are still impressionable, and bekieve you me by the time they turn 18, and I am talking about normal ones, they will see Zille at al for who they are, it comes with coming of age and maturity!
Mdu:
What is the difference between a tribalist and a racist?
Why cant Zille take her policy debate to the electorates and be insulted by analysts (though i doubt it) all the way thru her campaign like Zuma is? Briefly y we support Zuma: 1. He is humble and able to listen-hence greatest conflict mediator. 2. He is quick to accept n acknowledge a need for GENUINE debate on crucial societal issues, e.g death penalty/violent crime etc-yo’all deliberately decontextualise him on these issues to suit your agenda. 3. He is educated but not CERTIFICATED like most of yo’al, but has still made tremendous political strides unlike yoCERTIFICATEDall. 4. He is a collective type of leader-he ll always seek advice and collective wisdom unlike some ‘know it all’ intellectuals we know and 5. YES, because he can sing, dance, entatain making him a perfect human being who can resonate with the ordinary. Its important for the ordinaries to see that their leaders are normal humans able to do all normal things-I m yet to hear what is this noise all about a ’singing leader’. Ask T.M what inability to show emotions can lead to!…..There-you have it! Surely you guys dont believe all of us who support JZ are just a bunch of idiots, do you?…
Tatera // Nov 13, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Mdu:
“What is the difference between a tribalist and a racist?”
AND FOR THAT MATTER A NATIONALIST?
@ Thomas,
The DA has policies in place which address all of the issues you mentioned in your comment, ranging from socio-economic polices geared at breaking the cycle of poverty, to policies centred on bringing the crime in this country under control.
This is precisely why the ANC, and in particular JZ will not engage with them.
Thomas // Nov 13, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Hi Thomas, I thank you for your kind words. I will not be as presumptuous as to abrogate the role of spokesperson of the Congress of the People and state only my views.
I suckled, as you have, at the bosom of the ANC. It is an indubitable fact that the first words that I uttered as a babe in reference to any association of persons were A-N-C. I have not known any other association, whether political or religious save for the ANC. The ANC informed my world view and I attribute the freedoms, entitlements and rights that are a product of our Constitution to the tireless work of primarily the ANC.
The events of the past three years within the ANC are alien to me. The conduct of senior leaders, the cadreship and ordinary membership in these trying past three years have not been characteristic of the ANC that I have known and loved. I use the word “loved” because I did indeed love the ANC, but no longer do.
The painful events of the past three years have ensured that my blind loyalty to the ANC be questioned. The blinkers have been removed from my eyes Thomas and what I have seen is a shabby shell of a formerly glorious world movement. The ANC no longer lives, the ANC no longer leads, it merely governs.
Competition breeds competence, and whatever the positives and negatives of the newly formed Congress of the People, it does at least promise competition and therefore competence.
Lastly, in regard to your remarks about the non-existent policies of the Congress of the People, I remind you that policies do not, like miracles, materialize from the ether. They are a product of interactions of different people, all of whom have differing aspirations, yet are driven by the same goal. In the case of the Congress of the People it is clear that the founding objective is the defence of our constitutional democracy. The primary strategy of attaining this end will be the defence and promotion of our Constitution. As Pierre will inform you, the Constitution also deals with issues such as the right to dignity and the necessity of socio-economic preconditions for promoting inter alia the right to dignity. These are inter alia the aspects that we have been mandated to consider IN DEFENCE OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY. We will be convening on, or around, the 16 December 2008 in Bloemfontein, each of us to express the different views of the modalities of attaining our goal. From these interactions and discussions policies will be formulated and the means of their implementation. Draft constitutions will presented and an organizational constitution adopted. A leadership will be elected and mandated to promote our goals and implement the founding congresses policy resolutions. It is at this juncture that you may fairly judge what the Congress of the People will become.
I can’t believe that I actually read thru this entire post and came out with the thought of “what a waist of time”
Ignorance by some, blatant hate by others (not misplaced), and blind clinging to an idea that will never come to pass … is this a debate between children???
@ Vuyo,
It is fascinating to hear from someone on the inside of the COP and I look forward to hearing more after your conference.
Vuyo: you say “The events of the past three years within the ANC are alien to me. The conduct of senior leaders, the cadreship and ordinary membership in these trying past three years have not been characteristic of the ANC that I have known and loved.”
This is exactly why I chose to stick with the ANC. I see comrades who were in power for the past three years now decide that they have no structures within the ANC to fight with. I do not believe this to be true. A true democrat fights using the avenues and policies within that organisation or country. You seem in your posting to suggest that things happening in the last three years were not as a result of two camps but as a result of one camp. I beg to differ there. The camp that has left has certain motives for leaving. What I know of the ANC, although I might not agree with it on certain issues, is that it listens to its members. I might be wrong and they right and vice versa but at least I know that although I have very little influence I still have influence. I can influence comrades to change the direction and the course of the Party. I say party because as much as we want to stick to the old liberation tag we are now a party. In parties there are splits and changes in direction all the time this is not foreign in Democracies. The good thing about democracies is that the majority can be wrong (George Bush for instance) but they have a chance to rectify their mistake every 5 years. So as I said before I don’t know the motives of the breakaway group, but I wish them all the luck in the election and in all their endeavours in the future. I hope that they are going to make this country more beautiful and worth living in than it is at the moment.
Well prof I think the journalist should have focused on the number of people attending the rally. 10 000 is a huge numbernot even Zille would amass such a huge following. The journalist could have mentioned a number of good points about the rally than dihing out rubbish. This is the same king of reporting we faced last year leading up to Polokwane. But still JZ triumphed. Indeed lets wait till next year. The ANC will surprise a lot of people.
Tomas and Mdu keep it up caders. We are nearing the end and it is always beautiful. The ANC lives the ANC leads!!!
T // Nov 13, 2008 at 3:56 pm
You are spot on! The ANC is “nearing the end “.
Times are really interesting. Here is what Irvin Jim who is the General-Secretary of the National Union of Metalworkers of SA, had to say about Mbeki:-
“We respect comrade Thabo Mbeki, but what worries us is that we cannot tell where this stalwart of our movement stands on what is happening,” said Jim. “Thabo Mbeki should be the last line of defence for the ANC. He is the library of the ANC and we expect him to defend the ANC when it is under attack. We don’t want to disrespect him, but we cannot keep quiet any longer.”
A stalwart and a library??? Wow, and here I was thinking Mbeki was a dead snake, who divided the ANC.
I am confused!!!
mdu
Thank you for agreeing with my view on blind faith in politics and how it curbs ones objectivity. This could very easily be construed from most of your posts .You evaded the questions by posing questions and illogical arguments. This is a very common phenomenon amongst fanatic followers who believe in the supremacy of their leaders unconditionally and who fear change, for changing to them is a tacit admission of a mistake made and this is very hurtful to a stubornly proud person. The same attitude was seen amongst the NP followers in the apartheid era. They believed that their leaders were right no matter how obvious it was that they were wrong. They to answered question by saying that they dont have to answer the questions by virtue of their supremacy. Sound familiar?
Vuyo, well said !
I can relate to what you’re saying! I have been raised in a family of ANC supporters. I have witnessed how blind faith and loyalty to the party has created a situation, where people who I greatly admire, are willing to rationalise the irrational, and justify that which cannot justified !
I love the ANC, I would love to be able to proudly vote for it in the upcoming elections. However I believe there must be a distintion drawn between the ANC that was, and the ANC of today.
What made the ANC great were the principles that guided it, many of which have been recognised in our Contitution today. South Africa as a country is better off today, as a result of the ANC’s struggle.
However the ANC, over the years has evolved into a party which is almost unrecognisable when compared to its Golden years. My vote will not go the ANC, as my loyalty is not to a political party, but to the people of South Africa
Vuyo, thanks for your insiders perspective on COPE. You might note that I was not making any firm predictions about middle class support for COPE (or the ANC) as I really have no clue how strong COPE will be at the next election and how many votes it will steal away from the ANC. It’s a pity we do not have the kind of credible and comprehensive polling of voters they have in the US, so we cannot really say who will support which party. (It is interesting though to hear that most of the COPE delegates were working class folks.) In the past, public opinion surveys have always radically underestimated support for the ANC, probably because these surveys are done via land line phones thus leaving out a large section of the voter population.
By the way, I am agnostic about both the ANC and COPE at the moment and have no clue who I am going to vote for – although I am pretty sure the Freedom Front+ or the DA won’t get my vote (too many unreconstructed racists support them). And the ANC has Kortbroek van Schalkwyk and Mr Umshini Wam – jees – so can I vote around these guys for the Kgalema Motlanthe’s and Matthews Phosa’s in the ANC? Who else is there? Azapo maybe? The ID? COPE? I am really confused, which is great in a way because it feels like real democracy has come to SA.
Mdu
“Why should the Honourable Zuma engage a minnow like Zille on debate thereby elevating her status to something tangible whereas she is negligible, Mbeki did the same thing to Leon who was trying to punch above his weight like Zille is trying to do now.”
I would hardly call Helen Zille, 2008 world mayor of the year and leader of the democratic alliance, a minnow. I reckon she might be more of a heavy weight than you think.
Prof, and all the undecided! Take your votes to the ANC. Fact is Polokwane has defeated the “1996 Class Project” and reclaimed the ANC. The ANC will now continue its working class and pro-poor bias. Help us build a developmental state which will in time aliviate poverty and try to narrow the inequality gap. I hope you guys realise that it is only through the ANC, lead by President Zuma, that these can be achieved.
Spuy
If the ANC is serious about wanting the votes of the undecided, then it should be forthright and honest with the electorate about its economic policies.
They should stop sending Zuma overseas to tell the foreign investors that the current macroeconomic policies and the policy of inflation targeting by the Reserve Bank won’t change; yet at home Mantshe, Vavi, Nzimande and Numsa’s Jim spout the direct opposite thus making Zuma appear dishonest at best or at worst idiotic.
Pierre De Vos // Nov 13, 2008 at 6:56 pm
By the way, I am agnostic about both the ANC and COPE at the moment and have no clue who I am going to vote for – although I am pretty sure the Freedom Front+ or the DA won’t get my vote (too many unreconstructed racists support them). And the ANC has Kortbroek van Schalkwyk and Mr Umshini Wam – jees – so can I vote around these guys for the Kgalema Motlanthe’s and Matthews Phosa’s in the ANC? Who else is there? Azapo maybe? The ID? COPE? I am really confused, which is great in a way because it feels like real democracy has come to SA.
What is an “unreconstructed racist”? and how do we determine how many are there in all these parties?
Do we vote for a party based one who else votes for it or based on its policies and quality of leadership?
OR shall we go for the one with most “unreconstructed communists”?
@ Tatera,
My thoughts exactly.
Tatera, as my euphoria with the election of Barack Obama has again reminded me, one votes BOTH with one’s head and one’s heart. So I would argue it is inevitable that one votes for the party one feels most comfortable with and one is comfortable with that party because of who leads the party, what their policies are and because of who votes for them – the latter at least to some degree. When I talk about unreconstructed racists, I am thinking of those dear South Africans who sit around braaivleis fires and complain about “them” ruining the country, who believe the ANC is stuffing up because “they” are in charge of the ANC, who loved the DA’s “fight back” slogan because they feel whites have to fight back against “them” who are taking away “our” Springbok and “our” language etc etc etc. If you are white, you must be familiar with that experience when you meet a perfect stranger who starts complaining about everything because “they” are stuffing things up and thinks because you are white you share their racist prejudices. Emotionally I would find it very difficult to vote for a party who gets a large chunk of its support from such people. I am also a supporter of transformation which the DA is not to happy about, so there is an intellectual aspect to my reluctance to vote for Helen Zille – even though I must admit that I have respect for her as a person. I saw her interact with people of all races in a easy and non-patronising way which impressed me.
Prof:
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
As you would know, I am relatively new on the blog. However, I find it extremely stimulating and admire how you handle it even when, at times, it must be very frustrating and personally hurtful.
Oh to be a fly on the wall of Luthulie House after the dust of the elections has settled.
When the COP faction say to the ANC if you want our vote in parliment you must make good on our 40% of the Polokwane vote.
Give us our share of the ‘Goodie Bag’.
Otherwise we will give the opposition more power.
These are all died in the wool ANC and it is about power and priveledge not delivery.
Treasure your vote, place it where your own concience lies, you are spoiled for choice, do not be fooled by the new version of the same old same old.
Prof., a good, honest and intellectually wee thought out response to Tatera’s qeustions!
At last I join the party…
Prof, I happen to believe the extract may have been an honest reflection of Zuma. I also find it very interesting that the ANC insists on making the SABC its political propaganda tool. Isn’t that how it works in many a dictatorship? Zuma is a joke. Those Xhosa pupils are quite right to question his credibility for the highest office. He is a crook, a womaniser, uneducated and can’t possibly expect to satisfy all of us at once. Maybe that is the problem with the ANC, it has aimed at being too broad a church. I also happen to find it quite funny that there are attacks on others for being tribalists. I am Zulu, proud of it too. I have witnessed many Zulu people claiming they will support Zuma, purely because he is Zulu. A claim that this has noting to do with tribes is false. That Xhosa men regard others as boys because they have a foreskin may be out of jealousy or misplaced notions of superiority. This should be irrelevant to such a large and well-established party. Should there not be a respect of the individual cultures etc?
And it is amply clear why Zuma won’t debate. He does not know what he will say. He is glib and rarely answers direct questions. He’d have to provide concrete answers in a proper debate that has nothing to do with the SABC.
As for my vote… It will NOT go to the ANC. I have no desire to waste my vote on people who are corrupt and will not be held accountable to the people they supposedly serve. I am, in a sense, half-decided and I hope that we all think carefully about the future of this country. We shouldn’t case a vote for the music celebrity just because he’s entertaining, we should give our voice to s/he who will use it to best serve us.
Mdu!
I cant believe you such naive not to understand political dynamics. My advise to you though, is leave poliitics to politicians and stop with your shallow comments
Why would JZ engage TM when he is still a member of the ANC. The correct forum will be the NEC Meeting of the ANC and not in Public.
Mdu!
I cant believe you such naive not to understand political dynamics. My advise to you though, is leave poliitics to politicians and stop with your shallow comments
Why would JZ engage TM when he is still a member of the ANC. The correct forum will be the NEC Meeting of the ANC and not in Public.
Most of you guys are going to be admitted when JZ sucessfully lead this country with distinctions.
Mdu!
I cant believe you such naive not to understand political dynamics. My advise to you though, is leave poliitics to politicians and stop with your shallow comments
Why would JZ engage TM when he is still a member of the ANC. The correct forum will be the NEC Meeting of the ANC and not in Public. Samantha i just dont have an energy to respond to your fallacious accusation of the ANC.
Most of you guys are going to be admitted when JZ sucessfully lead this country with distinctions.
Nkululeko suddenly u have a thinking brain when u were MIA when mbeki went beserk.
Me wonders whether the vociferous souls of this world like vuye etc had been this loud when Mbeki lost his mind on Aids a million people would have died
Stalin wrote: “Me wonders whether the vociferous souls of this world like vuye etc had been this loud when Mbeki lost his mind on Aids a million people would have died.”
This type of argument is so horribly flawed it is nonsense.
• That Mbeki was bad does not make Zuma good. It is even so when one considers the fact that Zuma, when he was Deputy President of South Africa, agreed with Mbeki on everything from AIDS to Zimbabwe.
• The issues raised here are about the suitability or non-suitability of Zuma for the position of President of South Africa. Refute the allegations without dragging Mbeki into this.
• Some of us have landed support to TAC and other bodies that attacked Mbeki on his policies. We are prepared to do the same thing to Zuma or anybody else for that matter if we think their actions are bringing shame to our country.
• Mbeki is history and Zuma is the future that is why the attention is on Zuma.
It was not an argument but an observation. I dont give a flying kite about your TAC support, that was never the point
Wrong observation, Stalin.
How can a known fact that even u dont dispute be wrong? Mbeki was evil.give zuma a chance to be evil too, dont prempt him
Stalin’
I have a problem with the statement that we need to give Zuma a chance to be the President of the country, and then judge him afterwards. What’s wrong with judging him based on what we already know about him?
Here is what we know
• When he was the Deputy President of the country, Zuma supported the ‘evil’ Mbeki policies including the AIDS policy. So if Mbeki is evil, so is Zuma.
• Zuma may still be facing corruption charges during his Presidency. Isn’t this worrisome?
• Zuma slept with an HIV positive woman (knowingly so) while in charge of the AIDS program. His judgement is suspect.
• This woman was young enough to be his daughter. In fact she considered him an uncle. He betrayed the trust of this woman’s family. He is therefore, morally suspect.
• Zuma allowed Shaik to manipulate him. The evidence in the Shaik case paints a gloomy picture of an irresponsible Zuma who has a problem managing his finances.
• The fax evidence in the Shaik case (not disputed by anyone) points to Zuma being aware that the R500,000 per annum was a bribe. Some will say he is corrupt.
• Zuma flip flops on economic policies; depending on who he speaks to. His integrity is suspect.
• He has been a leader of the ANC for over 10 months; yet he has failed to unite the party.
• He is the main reason the party is splitting. Lekota and others cite the call for a political solution to Zuma’s case as one of the main reasons for the split.
• He can’t call Malema to order. In fact, it appears he condones Malema’s tirade. In these USA, he went on to liken Malema with a young Mandela.
• Although they may deny it, the SACP used Zuma to wrestle control of the ANC. Blade Nzimade, Gwede Mantashe and Zwelinzima Vavi have said it loud and clear that those who think the economic policies of the country are not going to change, are living in a fool’s paradise. We know that Zuma told some American investors and financial reporters that there will be no changes in economic policies including Reserve Bank’s inflation targeting policy. Does this mean Zuma is living in a fool’s paradise or is he just lying?
Of course this list is not at all exhaustive, but it does not paint a good picture about the suitability of Zuma for the position of President of South Africa.
Well said, Tony
If we’d followed Stalin’s advice I might have been Deputy Prez next year. And wouldn’t that be a whole lot of fun? Thank god that the voters exercised their judgement when they voted instead of waiting to consider their verdict and then vote me out next time round.
Maybe they learnt something from voting in GWB in twice.